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/mkg/ - mechanical keyboards general

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Thread replies: 201
Thread images: 54

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Where the fuck is /mkg/ edition

>Buyer's template for the unenlightened:
http://pastebin.com/33S1gVkG
Where to Buy:
>http://pastebin.com/8Yku80VL
FAQs:
>http://pastebin.com/M5w7QtKp

You are new and want our advice? Use buyers template
>http://pastebin.com/33S1gVkG

Keyset wiki
>keypuller.com

Old thread:
>>59386502
>>
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first for korean kustoms
>>
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>>59420780
>>59420731
>>
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Third for buying a gimped keyboard and then making a numpad for it
>>
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rate my sikk customization
>>
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>>59421037
radical
>>
Well, hopefully it won't be two months before my half-a-dox comes in from Falbatech. I chose the slow boat method so who knows, though.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the end result - a gamepad with a few different switch clusters - won't be to my satisfaction (such that I wouldn't bother switching it out with my normal board when I play games). Specifically, I'm worried that the left shift won't stretch far out enough for my most natural hand position when using WASD, the caps I've chosen won't have a consistent feel (due to a planned mix of Matias and Gateron), and I don't know if the thumb switches (a 2u POS DSA cap on two Gat blacks) will actually work as well as I am hoping.

It kind of feels like the project is just an excuse to build another mech, so if it all falls apart I can chalk it up as a failed prototype - or maybe it'll turn into an excuse to try again, even if the concept is thin.
>>
Just decided to get a new keyboard today, will be my first mechanical that isn't physically attached to something. I've got a switch sample kit coming in because I felt like wasting $10.

I'm looking at either getting an older keyboard or just getting a 100% and some caps that have an older style to them (as in like an Atari 800, rather than an IBM). I'm looking for a keyboard that has the caps/num/scroll lock backlit so I can get windowed keys for those, but I don't know if that exists.

Second, is there any likelihood of the DSA Dolch set from pimpmykeyboard coming back in stock? I dont know if they restock regularly or if all their products are a one time deal.

And lastly, is there a company that can top print letters, and side print photoshop commands (again, going off the "retro" sideprinted PETSCII commands and the like)
>>
>>59421311
>Second, is there any likelihood of the DSA Dolch set from pimpmykeyboard coming back in stock? I dont know if they restock regularly or if all their products are a one time deal.
http://pimpmykeyboard.com/whats-new/
>>
>>59421335
well thats good.
>>
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>>59421311
the answer to all your questions is yes, but my question is how much are you willing to spend?

Varmilo sells keyboards with backlit lock keys, DSA dolch is coming back, and Signature plastics can do side printing if you want. They have done it before on their commodore inspired retro set. You can contact them here if you want them to make you a custom set
http://keycapsdirect.com/contact.php
>>
>>59421418
I'm not going to be surprised if I end up spending up to $3-400 to get this all set up the way I'm wanting.

Is massdrop the best place to get Varmilo's?
>>
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Its back,
Here is a picture of some gmk.
Please do the needful.
Thanks.
>>
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Need a full size for the office, picked up this Filco for a decent price in ebay, plans:
>Open up, replace MX Browns with something custom, likely Gat Browns or Clears (if I can find any)
>If I can get hold of SPRiT springs from somewhere, then probably go 85g main keys, 100g space bar, something daft like 180g ESC.
>Sound deaden / pad the case
>Rip out the fixed USB cable and wire in a Mini USB port
>Change the LED bulbs from blue to white
>Maybe look into changing the controller for something programmable, depends on compatibility and cost
>Reassemble and wait for GMK Coniferous to arrive
Any comments or suggestions? It's a bit of a project board really just to mess around with, we can't even change our input language on our work PC's so I'm limited with what I can do, I just needed a fullsize for easier CAD and Office use
>>
>>59420731
wow, that keyboard is awful
>>
>>59421706
Remember the harder your keyboard is for normalfags to use, the longer your abs penis is.
>>
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/g/ Need ur advice on buying a Mechanical Keyboard.
>Budget
50 € (53 US Dollars)
>Location (continent at least)
Germany
>Preferred switch type
Clicky Medium, since I write alot (code, paperwork etc.)
>Layout
ISO
>Form factor
100%
>Backlight
Not needed, but if price does it why not.
>Previous/current keyboards
Standard Office Keyboard, but I am looking for something, that is easy to clean. Like having no side barriers (pic related).
>>
>>59421664
you can order direct from Varmilo if you email their sales rep
>>
So, where the fuck can I get PBT keycaps for my 660c that also have Japanese Hiragana on them? Is shit like that even being sold? I am having a hard time finding PBT Topre key caps already, let alone sets with Hiragana.
>>
>>59421974
Is there any issue with being able to swap keys on them? I saw a brief mention of spacebars being nonstandard.
>>
>>59420780
Anyone know what keyboard this is??
>>
>>59422025
all of Varmilo's keyboards have standard size keys.
>>
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>>59422073
what kind of weird ass fetish suit is that
>>
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>I fell for the magnet meme
>>
>>59422087
It looks like it was made from a recycled couch.
>>
reminder not to buy anything sub 65%
>>
>>59422161
Noob here, what does it mean?
>>
>>59421956
Tomoko full size is around that price, but I can only find the TKLs on german amazon. Maybe you'll have better luck
https://www.amazon.com/TOMOKO-Mechanical-Keyboard-Resistant-Anti-ghosting/dp/B01IHVN4GA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1489622229&sr=8-2&keywords=tomoko
>>
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the perfection
>>
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>>59422015
enjoyPBT on aliexpress dude. You can even get them in other languages if you want.
>>
>>59422209
>>59422015
forgot to link to the sliders man. my bad
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-Wholesales-Topre-Change-to-MX-switch-Converter-Presenting-O-Ring-Topre-to-MX-adapter/32792274251.html
>>
>>59422192
Alright, thanks though gotta take a deeper look.
>>
>>59422174
65% means the complete alphanumeric block, plus dedicated arrow keys and 2-4 of the nav block keys
>>
>>59422203
Is that the Zhishan/Shishan Keyboard? Dunno what it was called.
>>
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>>59422253
no 65% means there is an extra row making it 16u wide instead of the standard 15u
>>
>>59422253
>>59422275
Aren't these both correct?
>>
>>59422275
>>59422253
thanks!
>>
>>59422370
Sort of. Second guy's right that it mostly refers to the size (5u high, 16-18.5u wide), first guy's right that they normally have those common features. The size bit is important since 60% designs that include dedicated arrow keys are a thing, such as those included numpad adominations and more orthodox designs like the Filco Minila.
>>
>>59422263
e-element z-88
>>
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>>59422500
60% with arrow cluster is goat
>>
>>59422528
I somewhat regret skipping that group buy, but I just couldn't justify it when I already own a programmable 65%
>>
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currently waiting on my poker 2 from massdrop to upgrade from my razor black-widow.
It was my first keyboard i got since i built my system and I'm kinda sad to see it go. :(
>>
>>59422203
I wan't this but with blue something. I saw that the RGB model is like 50~60€ so I'll probably get one for a comfier typing.

What's the best blue switch or similar? It would be only for type on it becuase I'd keep my red keyboard to play anything.
>>
>>59422528
>split spcebar
Kill yourself famalam.
>>
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>>59422995
i got you famalino
>>
>>59423049
Is that some kind of Nip board? Does it have a separate function key for each of 6 layers?
>>
>>59423083
Disregard this I suck cocks.
>>
>>59422786
well theres already blue switches on it out of the box but they are like cherry mx knockoffs.
>>
>>59422786
Gatistotle switches
>>
>>59423083

looks like a filco minila
>>
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ordered a planck, gonna put deep space keycaps on it. feelsgoodman
>>
>>59422275
love that render of the 60% board
>>
Reminder that if your keyboard has no num pad, arrow keys, or function keys you're a filthy homosexual faggot that should be burned to a stake.
>>
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>>59425859
So, I've boiled down my choices for the first mechanical keyboard to either

>Leopold FC660M

and

> Ducky One TKL

Which on should I get? Their prices are practically the same in my area.

(Please don't comment on the lack of numpad. Don't need it.)
>>
>>59425859
Ack, sorry, didn't mean to quote you.
>>
>>59426229
I'd pick Leopold. Stock keycaps are nicer. Subjectively better looking.
>>
>>59426229
are either of them nonstandard bottom row in case you swap out the caps?
>>
>>59426286
I have no idea (I'm chopping my cherry with this one). Though I prefer the mono-color look and don't plan to change them.
>>
>>59424854
do you have soldering experience? I kind of want a planck but I have no DIY experience
>>
>>59424854
I thought this looks stupid at first, but then I watched this, and wow, i makes a lot of sense

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEPg8kk84gw

>every key is close to the home row
>switch mode so that you ca hit the home row for the functions keys

I kinda want one now, shit.
>>
>>59426286
660 has a non-standard bottom row to make room for the arrow keys. I believe it's menu key removed and 1u winkey. Also 2x 2.25u shifts.
>>
What are some keyboards that have a similar layout to the TADA68?

It's my favorite layout by far.
>>
I have a specific need for a 13-key macropad. Is it a good idea to buy 13 of the single-switch pcbs from TechKeys and some $20 controller from either TechKeys or mkb.com? Or is there a better source for such parts?
>>
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>be at uni using StinkPad
>doing group work with normies
>typing up notes
>normie asks to see what we've got so far
>tries to add to my notes
>gives a look like she's got brain damage
>realises something is up with the keyboard
>she asks whats going on
>I start shaking
>explain that its a different keyboard layout
>explain that its called Dvorak
>everyone starts laughing
>normies probably think I'm even more of a creeper now
>>
>>59427707
>be at generic IT support job
>one of the solicitors I work for asks to use my computer to check some emails they can't access
>hits reply and starts typing an email that comes out in gibberish
>act confused
>learn over and hit shortcut to change to qwerty
>"oh hey I fixed it, that was weird"

Close one
>>
>have white case with blue lights
>have white headphones with rgb lights (make them blue)
>have Logitech mouse black with rgb
>Black widow chroma (blue backlit)
>tfw no white mechanical keyboard with rgb/blue back light

No ducky shit

Might get custom white vinyl for the chroma dunno

Help a newfag out /g/
>>
>>59421037
Guessing thats a Plum84?
>>
>>59427707
Put your dvorak in her colemak and play with her qwertyuiops
>>
I am in absolute heaven.

I have placed o-rings on my Cherry Clears. This is the best feeling I have ever felt in my life.
>>
>>59428000
>having lights on anything

kys
>>
>>59428000
Get a full size magicforce in white with blue LEDs you dumb dumb. Plum and RK also make white keyboards with RGB and or blue LEDs, but they seem to be higher then the magicforce. I don't know why you don't want Ducky as they make the exact keyboard you are looking for. Other options would be to paint your keyboard case
>>
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>>59428488
>o-rings
>>
>>59422275
What board is this?
>>
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What are your guy's opinion on Romer G switches? I just tried out a keyboard that had them and I really liked them.
>>
>>59428000
The Anne Pro comes in white and has RGB backlights. Not sure if you're okay with 60% though.
>>
>>59428000
Magicforce 68 has white case/caps with blue LEDs.
>>
>>59429509
This, also rk61.
>>
Anyone has bought from pc gaming race? They have what I need but idk if they are legit. I'm looking for smd rgb gateron red
>>
Motion to move /mkg/ to /fa/
>>
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What is this keyboard /g/uys?
>>
Anyone wanna trade an MX Rustler Bro Cap for an ibm model m keyboard? ;)
>>
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>>59431017
The only thing to be rustled about is that you thought that a keycap based on a short-lived meme would hold any kind of value
>>
>>59430936
I dont have xray vision, but I'll say its a rubber dome
>>
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>>59431355
it turned out to be a model m
>>
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>>59431017
Dude IBMs are everywhere. Goodwill has them for 10 bucks, ebay has them for 60, and Unicomp sells them brand new for 80
>>
>>59431376

I got mine for 50 bucks. It has never been used. It is this one >>59431374
Did I do well?
>>
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>>59431420
The "newer" blue badge IBMs should have a different case design that allows for water to drain through. Other then that its the same old model M. Mine is the older grey badge one. For 50 bucks you did good
>>
>>59431548
Mine has that, too. Thanks for your replies.
>>
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Any ideas how to improve this design?
I was thinking of getting a magnetic cable but it doesn't look like they manufacture those in usb mini.
Alternatively, I was considering getting an angled usb cable so the tension won't be so direct on the connector and just duct tape the excess cable to the side of the keyboard.
(The keyboard is often in my lap.)
>>
Should I go for 60% or 65%? What's it like living without arrow keys? How easy is it to get used to having to use a function layer for them?
>>
>>59422073
as soon as i saw this on reddit i knew it would get posted here
>>
>>59433761
It's definitely easier with a 65% day-to-day. The function layer arrow cluster varies by keyboard.

On a fully programmable board, you could place it anywhere you want. On my KBP V60 for example, it's Fn+Enter - that makes the bottom-right 4 keys into the arrow cluster, and turns on a white LED under the Enter key, just like Caps Lock.
>>
>>59421668
Where the fuck do I buy decent cherry compatible keycaps, preferably blank. Preferably in lots of 10 or less. I bought some off amazon and they feel flimsy as shit and cost 2.50 a cap. I'm returning that shit.
>>
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Found the end game yet?
>>
wasd V2 blue caps for 100$, brand new
cop or not?
>>
>>59436352
Chyna. Check aliexpress or taobao
>>
What the fuck inspired the guy doing DSA Lightcycle to only do one alternate kit that serves triple duty as additional keys for less common physical layouts, alt homing keys and all the international shit. I don't wanna pay $110 for a kit that's 2/3 useless crap for people who either live in Europe or are obsessed with typing efficiency.
>>
>>59436740
Its to meet moq so everyone can be happy. Its quite common
>>
>>59436781
And yet the stupidly high price means the MX version is only at 28/50 and the alps is only at 11/50, so he's had to extend the group buy. Funny how that works.
>>
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>Get ergodox
>Get back to regular typing speed
>Wrists hurt when typing quickly for long periods now and they never have before
wat fuk
>>
>>59436828
It is either that or people bitch at him to make 20 different packs for different international/special snowflake layouts.
>>
>>59437085
Alternately: Fuck the special snowflake eurofags who keep complaining that sets don't support them, then don't put up the money when a set does. With all those keys gone from the comparability pack, it'd be way cheaper and people would be much more willing to buy in.
>>
What does /mkg/ think of aliexpress cheap chink keyboards.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Metoo-Backlight-Edition-Mechanical-Keyboard-87-keys-Blue-Switch-Gaming-Keyboards-for-Tablet-Desktop-Russian-sticker/32742079000.html
>>
Entry level good quality mechanical keyboard? Budget $100.

Don't mind the loud clicks, would prefer quiet clicks. I love the feel of old mechanical keyboards, like I used as a kid back in the nineties. What kind if keyboard did the Amiga have?
>>
Does the Anne Pro use standard keycaps?

Will I be able to get arrow keycaps for the bottom row, right hand side?
>>
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>>59438951
That open space to the left is the perfect shape for an accessory.
>>
>>59437895

i own a tomoko with SWITCHMASTER BLUE SWITCHES. Most of these brands are just the same board/switch with different faces. The build quality is surprisingly sturdy and has a metal faceplate. I'd say owning one of these /csg/ tier knockoff switch keyboards is a good first, cheap introduction to the world of mechanical kb's. The keycaps are shit tho.
>>
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>>59439011
I got you
>>
Where do you get replacement nubs that connect the keycap to the stabilizer bar
>>
>>59439011
nice new keyboard! oh, wait...
>>
>>59439069
This meme is more obnoxious than seeing the same few pictures all the time at this point.
>>
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>>59439054
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-parts/cherry-mx-keycap-stabilizer-insert-2pcs.html
Nevermind I found them. Thanks for nothing, retards.
>>
>>59439277
Did you actually expect people to magically know whether you meant costar style, pcb cherry style or plate cherry style without saying anything or posting pics?
>>
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TKL or die
>>
>>59438851
Yes, standard keycaps
https://imgur.com/a/ZXBBG

Just get some custom ones for arrows
>>
>>59439470
TKL is ugly from all the empty space. 65% or 75% only
>>
>>59439514
What are some decent websites for customs and how much can I expect to pay?
>>
>>59439626
>>>59439514
>What are some decent websites for customs and how much can I expect to pay?
No
>>
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>>59439626
they all look ugly as fuck tho
>>
>>59440099
A few days ago an anon posted a custom keyboard with a blue spacebar, and a mess of grey/black/white.
It was horrid, and never get WASD keycaps
>>
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>>59440148
don't worry I saved that. Its not the worst tho. To be honest some people shouldn't be allowed to design custom shit.
>>
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>>59440148
I wonder if you remember this anon
>>
how do i use teensy to load firmware on my ergodox? and about how long does it take to get used to, typically?
>>
>>59440192
why are z and y swapped?
>>
>>59440338
google qwertz
>>
>>59440366
Didn't know about that. Thanks.
>>
>>59440338
its a common layout in some countries, germany for example.
>>
>>59439053
4chan/g motto:
everything and a gun
>>
>>59438745
umm, on ebay you can keep eyes peeld and get some poker keyboards for not that much.

I've never used one, but I've heard good things about poker 2 and 3.

(if 60%'s your style)
>>
>>59433536

Any ideas to this?
>>
>>59440542
Idk, mini male to micro female then magnetic?
>>
>>59433536
is the issue that it falls out? That there is too much stress on the connector (leading to possible future breakage)?

A quick and dirt y immediate fix could just be to insert a bit of cardboard or something as a plate on the bottom of the board, to keep things from below from directly pressuring the connexion, but thats not the ideal conclusion.

As far as magnetic connectors, you could always make your own, if you just need them to hold it on. But that might be relativley weak as far as holding it in.

angled USB sounds cool, if you can solder it might be possible to build one, though I've never seen one in a store.
>>
>>59426385
fuck now I want one too just to configure into deferents layout depending on what I do. But then shit would cost alot for custom keycaps
>>
>>59436449
this has to be bait at this point
>>
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daily reminder this is objectively the best keyboard layout and you wasted your money if you bought anything else.
>>
>>59420731
I thought they couldn't make smaller memechanical keyboards. Boy, was I wrong. Next thing you know they'll be making keyboards with 3 keys and selling them for $399.
>>
>>59442224
would be great without the f keys and or with a less retarded font
>>
>>59442224
Is there a pcb/plate/case available at this size?
Or another keyboard with the same formfactor?
>>
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YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>
>>59442756
nice, that looks good
>>
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>>59420731
Waiting on keycaps and quad parts...
>>
Where can I find ortho brown pbt keycap blanks for my meme planck?
>>
>>59442176
I know the feel of the search, anon.
>>
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>>59442487
Literally a TADA68
>>
>>59420731
WHAT DOES PULSE DO???
>>
>>59442510
KBD75, b.mini
>>
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Topre n buckling springs <3
>>
>>59444079
those are some cute SSKs
>>
New to mechincals here, i'm going to order a TADA68 once they're back in stock but I can't decide which Gateron switches to get. I've been considering browns but I don't know if they're going to feel like shit or not. Blue would likely be too loud for me so I suppose its brown or black.

Any advice?
>>
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>>59442224
waiting for my capacitive 75% to come from chink land any day now.
>>
>>59442756
cute numpad you got there.
>>
>>59442756
looks good man/10
>>
>>59444617
Have you tried any Cherry MX-style switches at any point? If you don't have a baseline of whether you even like linears, for example, it'll be a complete shot in the dark.
>>
Tried zero. I've been going off others descriptions and recommendations. Though I suppose since the stock won't be coming in til next week, I do actually have time to order my own switch tester; I just wouldn't have much use for one after I find the right switch..
>>
>>59445219
>Tried zero. I've been going off others descriptions and recommendations.
A sure path to disappointment.

>I just wouldn't have much use for one after I find the right switch.
Well no shit.

Can't you go to a store and try out some demo boards, or are you in bumfuck nowhere?
>>
>>59445263
worse, i'm in the UK and 100 miles from L A N D A N
>>
>>59445280
Thats not that far anon. You should be able to get there in like an hour and a half drive if you have a highway nearby. You should at least have some super store in your area that at least has some keyboards like corsair or razer
>>
>>59445280
PC World and Maplin will occasionally have gaymer boards with cut out boxes so you can try the switches. It's very inconsistent though.

If not I'm sure they'd let you unbox a couple and try them if you asked
>>
>>59445324
>>59445379

I'll have to take a trip out Monday (working weekends is shite) and hope I get lucky, otherwise I will just order a switch tester and just pass it along to another brit in need. Thanks for the help anons
>>
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>>59442969
>>59445057
>>59445105
Thanks

I'm not totally satisfied with it yet; some keys are a bit crooked, and it doesn't quite line up with the TADA68 in terms of dimensions, but I think I'll make the case smooth and then handwire it. Getting a metal plate laser cut and revising the case model could get it there, but I think I'll keep that for a future project. This should do nicely for the time being and relieve me of the suffering that is using the number row. Next up is an ISO TKL with a wooden sandwich case and a gons pcb. Most likely with gat browns.
>>
>>59429256
I was just shopping around and tried them myself. I also really liked them. They really married quietness with a smooth feeling and subtle, yet nice, tactility. If only Logitech put them in something other than that awful G410 format, I'd bite. I ended up ordering a Drevo Gramr instead, though.
>>
>>59445449
>browns
disgusting
>>
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>>59445586
Gateron browns. I'm skeptical too, but from what I hear they're pretty nice, and I think they're pretty much the best mx-style switch for the person I'm making the board for.

Pic related, actual swiss-iso keycaps. Best part is that I got the thing for free.
>>
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Toprememe and enjoypbt. What could be better?
>>
>>59445754
ur mom lol
>>
>>59445762
this
>>
>>59445762
But she is old russian bag, lol. Do you love grannies?
>>
>>59445762
this
>>
File: 1489554681264.png (679KB, 720x614px) Image search: [Google]
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I know it's blasphemy, but are there any decent wireless mechanicals? Faggot friend has a retarded setup that won't work with a cable, but tried my keyboard once and is over the moon.
>>
>>59446066
Filco Convertible, Varmilo VB87M, Anne Pro
>>
Where can I get a small USB macro keyboard with a few keys? It would be cool to assign them to do different things.
>>
>>59445754
This is a nice keyboard. What is it? Which keycaps did you use?
>>
>>59446200
Thats the never ever keyboard, and the keycaps are enjoypbt
>>
>>59446066
Filco Minila Air is good for faggots.

Or a HHKB BT if he's a rich faggot.
>>
>>59446119
How many keys?
>>
>>59446066
get him the rk61 if he's a poor fag and can't spend more then 60 bucks on a keyboard
>>
File: 2bjrg3i1nlly.jpg (41KB, 491x520px) Image search: [Google]
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>>59421690
Yeah, how do I replace my fixed cable with a detachable one like you did?
>>
>>59446209
Found the keycaps. can't find the keyboard tho. Am I being bamboozled?
>>
>>59446256
It's the novawatch
>>
>>59446256
You will never ever get that keyboard since it was discontinued
>>
>>59446278
I see, thanks anyway.
>>
>>59446308
you can always go on reddit and beg someone to sell you theirs
>>
>>59446231
A few doesn't have to be that many.
>>
>>59446314
>go on Reddit
>beg
I rather keep some of the dignity that I have still left.
>>
>>59442756
>detachable numpad
>on the right
you're the worst kind of person and i hate you
>>
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>>59446374
I already keep my spacemouse on the left, I wouldn't really have enough space to use it comfortably if I crammed the numpad over there
>>
>>59446355
Well you got RAMAshit in 4 or 10 key options, the Max Falcon 8-key, the Roadkit 16-key or a full programmable numpad.
>>
>>59446600
What is that thing in front of your keyboard? It's really pretty.
>>
>>59439277
Remember to lube your stabs famalam
>>
>>59436449
it will be when/if it gets a tkl version
>>
/diy/ here. Are there switches with a shorter travel lenght? I'm thinking 1 to 3 mm. I could use something like that for a project.
>>
40%'s are so fucking cute but I know it's a useless waste of money so ill never get one.
>>
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>>59447340
Folded towel/wrist-rest

>>59447918
There's tons of low-profile short-travel pushbuttons available, but if you want something /mkg/ related, cherry ML is what you'd be looking for. Or the knockoffs of them that kalih is making, not sure if cherry still produces theirs.
>>
>>59426229
What's that top one?
>>
>>59448003
keycool 84, noopoo makes a similar one too
>>
>>59447969
If you don't mind me asking, where's it from?
>>
>>59446652
Which one is the best? Max Falcon looks good but is a bit expensive at $44.99.
>>
>>59446278
sheeet I know I should have bought one when they were $200. I was so ready to pull the trigger but told myself I had too many keyboards.
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