BSD And Other Things

Anyone run OpenBSD on a GMA45?

inb4 angry gnu zealots

>>59408862
>>59408880
Just install Linux already.

>>59408880
Installing Linux as I type this to tell you to install Linux.

>>59408862
I just read an article which stated that OpenBSD is more secure than FreeBSD. Is this actually the case? Would OpenBSD be a good introduction? I have a fairly modern toaster (~6-7 years old) and would be running this alongside Arch for fun and epeen.

shame there's not enough support for them

>>59410065
OpenBSD base installation with no third party applications is the most secure OS. But as soon as you install a third party application it is no longer a very secure OS, this is why OpenBSD is used for routers/networking and not desktop OS

>>59410607
what is a secure os?

I'd love to port NetBSD in Rust. But it requires a massive amount of time

>>59408862
>because security matters
>kernel riddled with nonfree botnet
haha

>>59410607
>the most secure OS
>shitting core files in working directory
>security became a sticker

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>>59410749

>>59408862
So how long are they going to keep X? When will they port wayland?

>>59410065
FreeBSD is a better intro to Unix. OpenBSD is good if you already know Unix.

>>59411536
They can't port Wayland, because the wayland developers are retarded and have dependencies on the Linux kernel. The Wayland developers never cared about Unix, only GNU/Linux.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq1_6MKT3dk
Can we agree that BSDnow is the most boring podcast.

>>59411819
Yes.

I was wondering: how do you people manage internet connections easily on FreeBSD?

>le FBI backdoor OS

>>59411890
nice try, CIA nigger

>>59411890
Nice try CIA

>>59412056
>>59412204
https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=129236621626462&w=2

>>59412750
>https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=129236621626462&w=2
nice try CIA nigger

>>59411836
bumping for justice

>>59410896
>completely open source
>nonfree botnet in the kernel
How the fuck did they manage that? Oh that's right, they didn't.

Playing around with OpenBSD again. Which DE or WM should I use? I think I tried gnome once but it was extremely slow.

>>59415682
Fvwm, Window Maker, CWM

>>59415682
XFCE or MATE.

>>59415682
Ah shit, OpenBSD, for a sec I read FreeBSD.

>>59411836
Want connection? Plug Ethernet cable.
Don't want connection? Unplug Ethernet cable.

Simple, no?

>>59415682
PenisDE.

>>59408862
Is bsd compatible with Linux games and drivers?

>>59416233
I read somewhere TrueOS can run linux software and comes with wine.

"Potential linux switchers" are not welcome, you don't want them to use BSD because this is about being a hipster and has nothing to do with technology.

Please stop making these threads, go rent a gun and kill yourself in that order.

>>59416233
FreeBSD has a Linux compat layer

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>>59416233
FreeBSD and NetBSD can run Linux software.
https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/linuxemu.html
https://www.netbsd.org/docs/guide/en/chap-linux.html

>>59416244
>>59416275
>>59416284
32bit elf support is their "compatibility"

>>59416317
Why quotation marks?

>>59416248
No, OP didn't clarify.
We don't want you in particular because you think it's smart to curl an uri and pipe it to a shell in your terminal in order to install software - what the BSDs want are people who do regular systems maintainance and administration who happen to use Linux but could easily pick up one of the BSDs.

>>59416317
No, FreeBSDs Linux compatability layer in HEAD is compatible with every system call any userspace program might make against up-to-and-including Linux 4.10.
What you don't seem to understand is that Linux and the BSDs are both Unix-likes, and are both nominally POSIX compatible, which means making things cross-compatible is as easy as ensuring the same system calls and dependencies are are available.

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>>59408880
Broken Software Dissapointment.

>>59416284
*GNU/Linux software*

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>>59416903
go be autistic somewhere else richard

>>59416244
*GNU software*

>>59416903
>>59416952
The fact that RMS has managed to get his only marginally successful idea attached to Linux is more of a testament to the stupidity of Linux users, than to the fact that GNU is an obsolete idea which has been taken over by lawyers who use RMS as nothing more than a distraction for the masses while they rake in millions.
Emacs? RMS didn't invent that, be merely rewrote it and then dropped it because fuck maintaing stuff.
Propriatary drivers for printers, the thing that caused RMS to flip his lid and come up with GNU in the first place, after he had trouble with a Xerox printer? Those still exist.
RMS is an irrelevant footnote in history, and Linux is nowadays controlled by big organizations which are more interested in earning money than writing good software.

>>59417013
What about gcc?

>>59417057
You mean the compiler that actively fascilitates propriatary software by providing porting code to run it on Windows? Something RMS himself rails against OpenBSD for doing via its ports tree* in the mailing list called "Real men don't attack straw men" on the openbsd-misc list back in December, 2007?
It's an even bigger hypocracy, because of the fact ports aren't part of the base system whereas GCC includes code to specifically allow it to compile code on Windows where it's used by many companies to make propriatary and closed-source code.
GCC, the compiler that's long failed to be as good at producing code compared to propriatary compilers, and which now has a competition that's BSD licensed, and is just as good as it, if not better with a better linker?
*) Implicitly also blaming NetBSD and FreeBSD because they also impliment ports trees with propriatary code/closed source code.

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>>59417275
Damn I only wanted a basic gestalt, but you gave me the big enchilada.

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What did it mean by this?

>>59417443
you don't have a directory called /compat and are trying to mount it. remove it from fstab or create the directory.

>>59417496
Wow that was it. Didn't notice that. I kept looking over my fstab thinking my partition wasn't mounted to / or something. Working good now.

>>59417013
In his spare time RMS talked Teddy the Rat into making BSD open source.
Now apologize.

>>59417275
addendum:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-02/msg00274.html
^ mailing list thread where rms rails about the evils of making emacs useful to people by letting llvm work with emacs's debugger

>>59408880
freebsd werks fine on gma45, openbsd should too

>>59417581
Who is "Teddy the Rat" supposed to be? If it's Theo de Raadt, he was part of the team founding NetBSD, whereas people like Poul Henning Kamp, Jordan Hubbbard and Rodney Grimes contributed to the 386 patchkit for BSD which was one of the source codes from whence FreeBSD and NetBSD were eventually forked from after the Net/2 lawsuit (Net/2 was the other source part of the source code for NetBSD and FreeBSD).
Then there's Marshall Kirk McKusick who was one of the original makers of BSD (notably making ffs for 4.2BSD) at CSRG, Berkeley, California, and he's still active working on and with FreeBSD to this day (he teaches systems programming by making use of dtrace for tracing operating systems).
Other contributors from that time and earlier include Eric Schmidt of Google-fame, Bill Joy of Sun fame.
Even Dennis Ritchie was involved, although he didn't commit code to it, but was involved in it following one of the earliest impilmentations of what was then the DARPA TCP/IP project - because BSD was central to the development of the internet as we know it today.

You have no fucking idea what you're talking about, you're just regurgigating the /g/ talking points.

>>59418610
Fucking lol, I completely missed that. He's a fucking goldmine of hypocracy and doublethink. No wonder the average /g/ denizen likes him so much.

>>59415682
cwm

>>59416248
i will never understand you

>>59417013
i laugh every time i see that one video where richard shakes his head because someone wants to study law

as if the FSF isn't just a lawyer organization

>>59419141
That's exactly what it is, and GPLv3 reflects it to a tee - which is why Linus refused to relicense Linux under it, and why people more and more are favoring MIT licenses, BSD licenses or derivatives thereof.

>>59417013
I use OpenBSD as my desktop, and always call it GNU/Linux because Linux simply isn't a complete operating system, and neither is GNU. Still waiting on Hurd, homies.

>>59420002
I run FreeBSD on my desktop, workstation, server and laptop - used to run OpenBSD a long time ago, and I still keep up with it as I'm involved in some of their code audits from time to time. On my SHARP X68000, I run NetBSD.

I refuse to call it anything other than Linux, though - if the people I'm talking with can't tell the difference between Linux as an OS and Linux as a kernel based on what I'm writing, I'm not interested in discussing with them because they're clearly not competent to have a discussion with.

>>59420145
>On my SHARP X68000, I run NetBSD.
that must run like shit

If it's open source isn't it easier to break into?

What is the *BSD version of Ubuntu?

>>59420355
TrueOS

>>59408862
What are the differences between Linux and bsd that are noteworthy?

>>59420372
there's lots of articles on it anon
go look it up

>>59420174
I have one of the Red Zone models which overclocking circuitry as well as a POLYPHON expansion board (provides FRU, PCM, MIDI and 8MB memory) as well as Neptune-X expansion card.

>>59420268
No. All software has bugs, even if you're generous and only assume 1 bug per 100 lines of code (which is optimistic), an OS with +100 million lines of code (that's the order of magnitude which FreeBSD is at), you still have a million lines of code. The theory behind open-source being theoretically more secure is that it allows more eyes on the code compared to propriatary code (where there's usually only 1 person working on a given piece of code). In practice, this doesn't really hold true as spotting bugs in code is a talent which takes a lot of nurture and effort to develop, and most people don't even have the talent to begin with. The majority of exploits for any system, no matter how big it is, come about because people notice discrepancies in how data is handled at runtime for the compiled code.

>>59420355
TrueOS is what comes close, but unlike Ubuntu you can't sue iXsystems when something breaks.
That's my personal pet theory as to why Linux has become popular: Redhat (and other companies, but primarily Redhat) offers commercial support and a contract with which companies can sue if something breaks. Companies like that, because then they get to hold someone else responsible.

>>59420372
Read https://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/01 - but in general, they're both Unix-likes, and can do much the same. It's mostly a philosophical difference, and since you probably switched to Linux from Windows originally for philosophical reasons, you might as well try it out.

>>59420397
>Neptune-X
A NIC for the X68000

>you still have a million lines of code
One million lines of code which contain bugs.

Plan9 or Inferno OS?

>>59420431
plan 9

inferno is just a demonstration for the limbo vm (frankly limbo would probably have been better than the JVM)

>>59420431
haiku
duh

>>59417275
>actively fascilitates propriatary software
BSD basically is a proprietary license. lol
Dem compiler based rootkits and proprietary binaries with alternate open source trees.

>>59420431
>>59420442
9front is actively maintained by Bell Labs engineers and others who picked it up after Bell Labs abandoned it as if there was a rabies boom in the babies room.

>>59420443
For what hardware is Haiku best optimized?

>>59420443
Are any of these video drivers compromised with spyware?
https://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/HardwareInfo/video

>>59420593
All of them, or none of them, depending on who you ask. If you're not competent to judge for yourself, why are you asking about it on /g/ where you cannot verify the identity of someone who you trust to tell you that it's been audited and is safe.

>>59420614
Damn dude I'm just trying to build an uncompromised PC.

>>59420614
Also googling "list of compromised video drivers" turns up nothing relevant.

>>59420649
you'd want to use something that is more publicly known. obscure systems have less people auditing & checking them anon

>>59420649
You cannot solve the problem of government or corporate surveilance with technology, because it's not a technological problem - it's a political problem.

>>59420397
This shitty anti-rant you keep reposting is quite possibly the unofficial contrarian BSD doctrine. Please stop posting this link, or posting in general, like it's serious, when it only has one thing to say over and over again:
>I don't use 99% of software, or hardware, so we have to throw it out, along with your needs. My "needs" are "dick around in the terminal with psuedo-cs dropout shit" so that should be the limit of what computers can do

Or, to anyone actually "considering" BSD, you SHOULD actually read it IN FULL. What I'm saying here is, please don't just gloss over it, not read it, and think it's legitimate just because it's a link and really long. It's just some loser hippie jerking his contrarian dick dry. He, along with every other BSD loser, doesn't really want you to use BSD, which is why that rant, this post, and this thread is quantum bullshit "recommendation" wherein they put together sentences like "you should use BSD it only takes a while to set it up."

This is carefully designed to make you think you want this, then of course get frustrated and give up. You won't believe me when I say this but you have to - this is actually the ONLY way BSD losers can still socialize. They naturally drone out everything that isn't BSD related anymore, and think that when this happens they are intelligent for "going farther" when someone else gave up.

If you actually do try out BSD, you'll just go through the same cycle with every BSD shit as you try to get recommendations. "I need software" and "who uses *that*?" Try as hard as you want to jerk off in your private IRC channel about how "the web is cancer", you aren't going to succeed with your hippie OS when you don't have choice software like "a fucking web browser"

Please, please, please, newcomers, actually read the rant, so you can how pre-suicidal BSD shits are. Either way you were warned.

>>59420716
do you think you look sane right now

>>59420716
Nice copy-paste, it has great levels of FUD and shilling. Carry on your excellent shitposting, sir/ma'am/thing.

Man, the CAPTCHA for this post is perfect: STOP ausfahrt

>>59420716
>doctrine
Haha oh wow.
You don't need a doctrine to realize BSD is shit dude. Its readily apparent for anyone with more than two brain cells that isn't a rent seeking proprietary jewlord.

>>59420686
IF that were true then everyone using Silk Road would have been busted by now.

>>59420678
Would FreeBSD fit that description? What about Plan9?

>>59418610
"I don't know what LLDB is, or what it might do. I am going to find" -Richard Matthew Stallman

>>59420787
FreeBSD is fine. but something more security focused like Gentoo, Qubes, HardenedBSD etc would do you better.

>>59420776
They're small fish, not a threat.

>>59420787
Not sure FreeBSD quite counts, it actually has a pretty sizable install base, it's just not very public (and it has many times the install base of any other BSD, or all of them put together).
Plan9 defintely counts, though.
As soon as you install any software that's not part of the base system, you're exponentially many times more exploits, though - since applications are attacked more than OS'.

>>59420798
That's his default answer to anything, because he refuses to browse the web himself and relies on people he trust to tell him what things are; he admitted this in the thread I mentioned earlier.

>>59420749
no problem you can start an actual conversation by giving a single reason to use BSD over linux in 2017, 2007, or 1997 that doesn't have to do with shitty hippie retard "philosophy". Going back and reading all your posts:
>BSD is better than linux because it's set up like *this*
>muh documentation
>muh philosophy

On the linux side:
-Software
-Drivers
-Desktop software
-6 figure salaries
-Transferable skills
-Proprietary software if you want because companies are actually taking the time to do it now
-Community that has a response other than "fuck you"
-Movies, games, music (a collective $100B+ industry you will disregard because you don't even have any fucking software to PLAY any of these)

On the BSD side:
-Suicide
-Cuntrarianism
-IRC circlejerks
-Spending all your time jerking off about the past when linux was equal
-Pretending that the things that everyone else does are wrong when you're earning minimum wage at 40
-"being better set up than linux", documentation, and philosophy, I guess!

>>59420798
so out of touch it scares me how much damage he has caused to software through his ignorance, gnu could've been much bigger if he could've kept up with the world and updated his message to reflect the current state of things

>>59420914
lol

>>59420833
why the fuck is he still leading gcc and emacs and giving speeches around the world, what the fuck, why not replace him with someone who isnt a embarassment to his own cause

>>59420957
Uriel showed how cool and unique Plan9 and BSD are by killing himself. Hmm all the software is gone, what can I remove next? how about my self!

>>59420914
drivers? meet the linux kpi layer
software? linuxulator.
desktop software? aint nothing a shim cant fix
6 figure salaries are also a thing in freebsd
transferrable skills? i'm pretty sure freebsd has the same tools
proprietary software? see software
community? beats linux's NIH syndrome and isnt insecure about desktop share, nor about android phasing out the linux kernel
movies, games, music? i dont think thry give enough of a shit about it, outside of valve, who's trying to fix it.

>>59420914
>salaries
If you'd actually read my previous posts, you'd know I make +150k / year as a network and systems administrator for a Tier1 SP which uses Juniper and FreeBSD in production.
>software
FreeBSD is used by multi-million dollar companies and government agencies including Dell (through the EMC/Isillon purchase) as well as NetApp, NASA, Netflix, Apple (iOS, increasing parts of macOS), Panasonic, Sony (PS3 and PS4), Whatsapp, and many many others.
>desktop/drivers
drm-next is in HEAD and has been for a long time, because FreeBSD has standards about stability. Drivers in general have been an issue in the past, but aren't anymore since everything nowadays is integrated in the PCH or SOC.
>trransferable skills
Anything learnt on a Unix-like is transferable, don't think this makes Linux special.
>propriatary
BSD philosophy is pragmatic about propriatary software, it's GNUtards like y ourself who's fucking obsessed with free and open software to the detriment of everything else.
>community
Community? Your community consists of curling an uri and piping it into a shell, and using outdated blogposts for documentation, whereas FreeBSD has both quantitative and qualitative documentation
>movies, games, music
Anything that runs on Linux can run on FreeBSD with the compatability layer and its dependencies; ports has over 27000 pieces of software that runs on FreeBSD, and if it's not in ports it can probably still run if you're not too stupid to need someone to make up the commands for you so that you can copy/paste them from an outdated blogpost.

Nice meltdown, though.

>>59421055
nice going, fuckface, way to disrespect the dead

I need to build a PC for Qubes OS. Any recommendations?

>>59421099
add intel to it, they're hopping into the freebsd train full time now with a fat $250,000 donation

>>59421139
The 250k donation is nice, but FreeBSD Foundation needs many small donations too, to prove that it's actually a legit 401K.
Intel specifically confirmed that it'll be doing more code commits to FreeBSD, that's what's exciting about that announcement.

>>59420914
>Movies, games, music
>movies
>music
what

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>cuck license

>>59408862
>OpenMEMESD
Enjoy your FBI backdoor you subhuman nigger.

>>59420914
Let me guess, you asked on irc about a (series of) stupid questions and got told to read the manpage or the handbook? Damn, son, you're fucking butthurt. Grow a pair.

>>59421169
yeah, that means freebsd's gaining momentum, which should turn into more companies eyeing it

>>59421222
>>59421242
he's going all out

>>59421257
The donation? I don't think it'll have that much of an impact. Linux, specifically Redhats work with the systemd suite - because of how infected Linux has become - is driving more Linux users to switch than FreeBSD advocacy ever could.

>>59421298
i mean that intel boarding the freebsd train may be a prelude to more companies investing on it, given the general state of linux, its uncontrolled and unfocused growth towards every direction seems to lack an direction, as linus merges almost anything that falls on his lap

>>59421298
But nobody leaves Linux to avoid systemd. Systemd is the best init system available.

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I've started reading "absolute open bsd" it feels great.

>>59422324
it is a pretty good book

i think it would be good even for people who don't use it

If I was looking to try a BSD which should I go with? I'm hoping to use a GUI interface... My video adapter is the A6 7400k apu from amd with "r5 graphics".

No AMD Hawaii Support

>>59422517
*Volcanic Islands
Oops

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>>59414937

>>59422489
Try FreeBSD
GhostBSD
TrueOS

>>59422656
I'll go ahead and try those, but out of curiosity, do you know anything about illumos?

I'm familiar in a basic way, with unix history and I know solaris is pretty unixy, once upon a time was a popular os..However, I figure if it's mostly a server-oriented os I'll just drop interest.

>>59421099
How do you justify FreeBSD's poor security track record? Or them actively fighting against removing RC4 from their PNRG for almost four years? Or them removing privsep from pkg because it was too troublesome to fix?

https://vez.mrsk.me/freebsd-defaults.txt

Legitimate question, not trolling. I can't understand how anyone would still be comfortable running FreeBSD. Security is a problem from top to bottom in that space.

I see commits fixing build support for systems without capsicum and just think "wow." Their development model is entirely backwards. I wonder how many FreeBSD boxes in the wild are compromised from this gross oversight.

>>59422679
Solaris is for servers and oracle stopped development for it recently so it's basically dead.

>>59408862
How easy is full disk encryption? How about using Grub? Grub is the only way I know to encrypt the boot partition.

>>59422341
Can you suggest me next read?

>>59422705
>Solaris is for servers

It was always considered a "workstation" OS

>>59422696
i dont get it, so you're telling me freebsd should drop support for systems that do not have capsicum support? and the defaults are being dealt with

>>59423222
I'm saying they should not be spending so much developer time working around systems with capsicum disabled. They're catering to people deliberately disabling one of the very very few mitigations that FreeBSD offers. Shouldn't those people be on their own? Nope -- dedicated developers are sweeping the whole tree.

The defaults aren't being worked on. That page is a year old and almost nothing has changed. freebsd-update was fixed after like eight months of public exploits being known.

>>59423330
fyi, default changes are best done in new releases, not in existing ones where it can break existing infrastructure

>>59423330
its called bugfixing, thanks.

>>59420442
Inferno installs but Plan 9 doesn't, on my machine. Probably because Inferno doesn't run on bare metal.

>>59423330
cut out the hyperbole, it was one commit that would let lam run on systems without capsicum

is there a way of printing out the number of background jobs running and can i shove that in my PS1 in ksh?

>>59424879
`jobs | wc -l`

>>59424879
If you mean OpenBSD's default ksh, then \j will work too.

>>59424907
yeah that's what I was thinking

>>59424928
decided to try out netbsd and i realized that ksh somehow has less features in that

>>59424942
Ah. Yeah. pdksh varies a lot between systems nowadays, and it itself differs from ksh88 and ksh93

can someone post an OpenBSD screenfetch?

>>59426121
Screenfetch requires bash and no one wants bash.

>>59426180
I used bash on OpenBSD, because ksh was shit.

Hilarious

>>59426189
Tell me about how bad ksh was.

>>59426202
It won't read its fucking configuration files and i'm a bash guy, so it was obvious which one is better for me.

>>59426243
I see. I normally use tcsh or ksh.

>>59422696
I don't justify it, I grudingly accept it for a system that can actually do what I want, and make the necessary changes as outlined in freebsd-defaults.txt that you linked. If OpenBSD can do what I wanted, I'd be using that - but it can't.
RC4 removal from PRNG does have a patch waiting, but unfortunately it hasn't been merged yet. If I needed a good source of RNG, I'd get an contained active source with a geiger counter attached to it, and read from that. That's actual true RNG, not PRNG.
Priviledge seperation was removed from pkg because if it was added then it would need a complete rewrite for when pkg is used in base instead of freebsd-update (something that was planned for 11.0 but didn't make it in).
Capiscumizing base is something that's being worked on constantly, do you have a specific source for the claim that _all_ commits are being done without capsicumising, or are you just reffering to the lam issue as a way of FUDing up the conversation?
Whichever FreeBSD systems in the wild are compromised, it's MANY times more likely to be because of stuff outside of the base system - but that's pure speculation, and you might as well speculate how many OpenBSD systems are in the wild being compromised because of programs not in the base install.
I'm reasonably comfortable because anything public-facing runs in a jail, and everything else is firewalled so completely you can't tell there's anything running - any persistent attacker will gain access to any system given enough time, no matter what OS it's running.

>>59422724
Why would you need to encrypt the boot partition? What are you keeping in it, that needs to be encrypted?

>>59427828
>Capiscumizing
Making up words to try to support your argument makes you look like a toddler.

>>59428098
Hello, perscriptive linguist.
I see that you're failing at your attempt at dictating how English is used, but you may wanna consider switching to French instead - since French is a handed down from the authority that is Académie française, whereas English has no such authority and all dictionaries consider it their job to be merely descriptivist.
Case in point, I'm using an -ization of the word capsicum which is the capabilites and sandbox framework in FreeBSD.
tl;dr: Get bent.