Apple fighting right-to-repair laws

>>59402636
How about they stfu and stop thinking they can buy people's freedoms? Fucking businessmen think they own the world.

Why is lobbying still legal in that fucking country? If you try that here, the relevant politician will be accused of corruption and the company will face something similar. They can still exert pressure through fancy parties and all that shit but at least it's harder and we here don't accept companies meddling with our government to the same degree muricans do.

>OY VEYYYYYYYYYY GOYYYYYYYYYYYY JUST BUY A NEW ONE!

>>59402766
lol get fucked, gommie!

>Tractor manufacturer John Deere has also come out vehemently against right to repair legislation; a letter the company wrote opposing the Kansas right to repair bill says the company wants to prevent "unintended alterations" to the tractors it sells.

Christ.
You'd think that heavy agricultural/industrial equipment manufacturers would stay away from such bullshit practices.

>>59402927
John Deere has been at the forefront of authorized service centers, they're turbocunts and will shaft you if there's any evidence of non authorized servicing

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>>59402636

>The legislation would require Apple and other electronics manufacturers to sell repair parts to consumers and independent repair shops, and would require manufacturers to make diagnostic and service manuals available to the public.

This is what this bill is about you morons.

Its the government forcing companies to SELL certain stuff. Its completely nonsensical and the government has no right to interfere with that bullshit.

The only people who are PRO this type of shit are the autistic "repair shop lobby" (kek that this even exists) and fucking leftists shithole magazines like motherboard

Yet again they spin the story and pretend Apple and other companies want to prevent people from repairing their phones.

This is EVIDENTLY not what this is about.

If these companies dont want to sell stupid repair parts and offer manuals they don't have to. You don't have to buy from them if they don't. its your decision. The government has to stay the fuck out of this bullshit.

>>59402927
They literally scrap entire tractors because 100% epoxy potted magic boxes fail.

I am not making this up. I really wish I was.

>>59402766
>government wants to regulate something
>something which is already not regulated
>government wants to increase control
>less free by definition
>you sell your commie bullshit as businessmen buying freedoms
wtf

>>59402995

Thread's over, the shitposter found it.

>>59403020
>"less free by definition"
>government doesn't prevent manufacturers from obtaining a repair monopoly
>they become a monopoly
>now you're less free
>libertarians actually call less freedom more freedom
KYS retard

>>59402995
>cell phone monopoly owned by 2 companies
>"just buy from someone else!!"
>end up with barely functioning nokia phone

>>59403029

>>The legislation would require Apple and other electronics manufacturers to sell repair parts to consumers and independent repair shops, and would require manufacturers to make diagnostic and service manuals available to the public.

what part of it do you not understand? explain to me .. why can the government dictate what apple can sell and what it does not?! are you fucking autistic? why not nationalize the whole economy? fucking communist piece of shit

wtf I hate Apple now

>>59403049

>>cell phone monopoly owned by 2 companies

what the fuck? there is more competition i nthe cell phone market than ever before you fucking retard. You can buy phones that are better than $1000 from 2009 today for $100 lol.

>cell phone monopoly

Holy fucking hell

>>59402995
You are right and are going to make a bunch of retards exceedingly angry

>>59403050
Hi, big corp shill. Are they paying you per post? Is that why you've already made 4 posts ITT?

>>59403048
>government regulates something, artificially propping up monopolies
>how do we fix this?
>HURR WE NEED MORE GOVERNMENT
people like you are the reason I only have one choice for ISP you insufferable underage faggot

filtered

>>59402980
Dunno man, I'm from eastern europe, we always fixed our tractors/combine harvesters ourselves.
These things break in the field
and you have to repair them in the field.

Are "John Deere cuckstamped service centers" mobile?

>>59403009
that sucks

>>59403071
>lol dude just buy one of those chink phones! they're so cheap lol!
>who cares that you can't get 4G??
>so what if you can only get service from one tower in your city, you can play angry birds just fine!

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>>59403101
>everytime there's monopolies there's regulation
>ergo, regulation causes monopolies
Are libertarians really THIS stupid to believe that correlation implies causation?

Newsflash: the reason they always go together is that regulations are a response to monopolies, not the opposite, you fucking moron!

MAXIMUM CRINGE

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>>59403074

yeah i have noticed this before. Arguing economics on /g/ is completely pointless. Its a board full of video game playing teenagers who have no fucking clue about it and politics in general. Really frustrating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOMksnSaAJ4

>>59403144
Most regulations in the last hundred years have been pushed by companies trying to become monopolies or monopolies themselves

>>59402636
The Nebraska one just failed as far as I'm aware.

>>59403144

t. Paul Krugman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqHUBYfxh4k

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>>59403145
>Let me portray my opinion as if it were fact: The Book
Economic science disproves your delusional ideologies, kiddo.

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>>59403170
The solution to that is not to destroy the only thing protecting us from corporations, but to separate both.

>>59403145
>Its a board full of video game playing teenagers who have no fucking clue about it and politics in general.
WOah, /v/edditors are getting self-aware.

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>>59403184

Economics isnt a science. The only people who desperately want it to be a science are keynesian faggots who demand control over the economy cause they pretend they can scientifically explain human decisions - which they obviously can't.

>>59403209
>you can't scientifically explain human decisions
Boy, you're in for such a rude awakening...

>unironical anarchists
>in a technology board
Am I the only one who sees the cognitive disonance here?

>>59403228

if you could do that you'd be a trillionaire right now because you can accurately predict who is going to buy what from you ... are you?

guess not ... mmh ... really makes me think my dude.

Wonder why companies spend billions on marketing when predicting everything is sooo easy haha. Its literally risk free. There is zero risk involved in doing business. Everything is predictable now.

Thanks lefties! Why didnt i know about this.

>tech on site fag
>go to customer
>four keys were sticking so he removed and cleaned them
>didn't know how to put them back in
>had to hire a tech guy like me to pop the tiny clips (admittedly that was shitty and took time, lenovo makes laughably bad keys)

You'd think Apple would be all for this, charging customers that brick their phone because they wanted to do shit themselves.

Or did I not read into it enough and they're obligated to assist for free if the customer was a downy?

>>59403115
Stop living in the Third World.

>>59403286

the bill requires them to sell parts and manuals, instructions to repair shop fags.

Should they do it? Sure why not it would be nice.

Should the government FORCE them to sell these parts ... of course not.

>>59403286
>Obligated to assist for free

Nope. Just to provide schematics necessary to repair so people can repair their own shit. Right now apple makes you replace your entire phone and lose all your data if your fucking headphone jack stops working.

Why should a machine which can be repaired in an economically justifiable way be discarded?

The effort required to repair something is in such a case much smaller than that required to recycle it. The fact that companies are fighting repair is because they themselves fail to make a profit through a smaller energy expenditure, which is just laughable. A successful corporation would not need to fight bills like these, as they'd already be offering the best repair services themselves.

>>59403324
>Right now apple makes you replace your entire phone and lose all your data if your fucking headphone jack stops working.
Capitalists will defend this.

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>vice

I'd even go so far to argue that this bill heavily favors large corporations anyway. In the long run it would favor Apple actually because it raises the entry barriers into the market by a significant amount.

How do you ever get into competition with Apple when you are also required to lay down the infrastructure needed to provide repair parts, manuals and all that shit to the "repair shop lobby" lol.

Its the same song over and over again. Lefties think they are beating the evil capitalist system and corporations but what they are actually promoting is the exact opposite which is blatant corporatism and collusion between the government and corporations.

These people have no brain at all.

>>59402766
>Why is lobbying still legal
Americunts made corruption legal. Thanks Americunts.

>>59403383
Make product
Post schematic on website
Post BOM on website
Post software on website
Done

Every backyard single-person hacker company is already doing this.

>autists not wanting the gov't to regulate a market of repair parts by forcing applel to sell said parts
>not realizing that the market is already regulated via patents and copyright
I think applel would rather be forced to sell repair parts than lose patent and copyright protection.

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>>59403383
This is from their site. Not really trying to find the bill itself.

>Information:
>Manuals: Make publicly accessible, standardized service manuals in an electronic format.
>Schematics and circuit diagrams: Make semiconductor diagrams and data sheets publicly accessible.
>Software updates: Allow owners and independent service providers access to machine code and firmware patches and fixes.
>Licenses: Make all contracts clearly identify which elements of the machine are not included in the sale. Do not allow companies to create contract language (End User License Agreements) that add new requirements for support in the future.
>Parts + Tools: Make service parts and tools available at non-discriminatory pricing to equipment owners and third parties.
>Patents: Encourage patent licenses to produce repair parts and tools available under fair licensing terms.
>Diagnostics: Make troubleshooting and diagnostic tools, codes, and service software available.

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>>59402980
>John Deere has been at the forefront of authorized service centers
that would actually only work on Burgerland. The rest of the world, the actual free world buys a fucking tractor, uses it and if it something happens, the actual farmer or a local mechanic fix it, sometimes in the same field it's working.

>>59402995
>Apple and electronic manufacturers
>Repair is bad cause battery might explode
>Battery explodes cause you liked won't sell the parts,so you gotta buy them from 3rd party chink that mighty low quality

>Ban the right to repair!!!

>>59403420

>everyone is already doing it

so whats the problem then? Did the government put a gun to their head and forced them to do it?

If customers demand this it will happen. Its as simple as that. If X company doesn't provide it don't buy from them and vote with your money.

Is it that hard for you to not buy Apple products? are you a literal retard? If yo uare so unhappy with Apple why are you still buying from them? What exactly is wrong with you?!

>>59403449

i dont have any problem with repair.orgs demands. They can demand whatever the fuck they want. They can demand that Apple buys them the moon and builds them a fucking repair shop there.

It is a problem however when they are paying politicians to make it a fucking law that favors them.

This is some commie shit. Why not have right to food, water and job as well, surely those are more important than repairing! Someone tell me why repairing is more important than food, you literally die if you have no food!

Anyway, if you want to encourage repair, do it the non retard way. Give tax breaks on repairs. that's what they do in Sweden.

>>59403472
>So you gotta buy them from 3rd party chink

The irony is that apple buys their shit from the same chinks. The whole battery exploding thing is just them fear mongering to convince the legislators that being able to repair your own damn phones shouldn't be done by anyone but them.

>>59403521
They use the first party chink,or Jap and get it assembled by 2 party chink.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Wb1QCSuMg

>>59403505
>If customers demand this it will happen. Its as simple as that. If X company doesn't provide it don't buy from them and vote with your money.
No thats not how it fucking works. The consumer doesn't know the transparencies of the company at hand

right to repair laws enable the consumer to go to third party repairers instead of the OEM. It enables competition in the repair industryt

>>59403505
Everyone isn't doing it, only some very small, usually ideologically driven enterprises are.

>If X company doesn't provide it don't buy from them and vote with your money.

This does not work in practise, and you know it. People in general are too short-sighted for that. The current system of disposable devices is not sustainable, and I do think that it's the government's place to step in to ensure a sustainable future for the human race.

>>59403600

>>59403600

i dont give a flying fuck about the repair industry lmfao. Nobody does you fucking autistic retard.

>the customer doesnt know!!

wew nice argument my dude. Did you know that companies have to provide tons of information about their products, ToS etc. Everyone knows beforehand what hes buying and if he fails to inform himself thats on him.

Doesnt mean you cry for the government club because you are afraid that the "repair industry" is losing money. Fuck off.

>>59403613

> People in general are too short-sighted for that.

haha everyone is so dumb! we need the government to save us!!!

> I do think that it's the government's place to step in to ensure a sustainable future for the human race.

ofc buddy! because the human race has always benefited when the government stepped in! what else? it worked wonders for us in the past it will work now and in the future haha! Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Kim Jong Un & Co are just statistical outliers and it literally is never a slippery slope and the government and politicians only care about US the people.

How much does the DNC pay you btw?

>>59403512
the problem is corporate entities are lobbying to pass anti-repair bills to make it illegal to repair your own phone FORCING you to go to the OEM for repairs.

This isn't commie shit you dumb faggot its ensuring the consumers rights against laws that would hurt them

This repair bill is just retarded.

Nobody is being forced to buy apple products.

>>59403505
>If customers demand this it will happen.
Costumers are too stupid too

Most people can't think for themselves

>>59403668
It's not just Apple doing it.

>>59403669
Yes that why Corperation should think for them! Am I right guys?

>>59403668
>implying they're not

>>59402995
This law is great for consumers and small business, aka the repair shops you're shitting on for some reason. It's ironic that the only defense from companies like Apple is "they'll do something wrong and harm themselves", while that's currently the case when people have to guess on how to fix things. The law is even fair, allowing these companies to SELL the documentation rather than providing it free of chrage.

The only way you could be against this is if you're a corporate shill for big business, aka a cuck.

>>59403647
>haha everyone is so dumb! we need the government to save us!!!

You have a higher opinion of the human race than I do.

>(list of communists)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc

>>59403668
>Specific thing breaks on your phone
>Apple refuses to fix it, you can't pay any amount of money to get it fixed without losing everything on your phone
>HURR RIGHT TO REPAIR IS RETARDED

And this applies to more than just apple.

>>59403647
>i dont give a flying fuck about the repair industry lmfao. Nobody does you fucking autistic retard.
You're fucking retarded, people who work in said industry care about their jobs and their skillset. Are plumbers and electricians and other repairmen also a big "woopty do?"

>no they have to have information on this because the company provides it
No the company uses legal jargon and obfuscating language to obscure information and not provide it explicitly and practically.

Itunes EULA is 55 pages long. You really think consumers are going to sit down and read the 55 pages to know their terms and conditions? Did you even read the GNU terms of service? I really doubt you did.

This isn't the repair industry losing money, its corporate entities lobbying against your right to repair, taking it away so they can monopolize repairs on their products. this is inherently anti-competition and anti-consumer

>>59403692
No, an elite well educated small group of non-elected government officials

But that will never happen

>>59403668
Apple and other companies are trying to force you to use their repair service instead of giving you a choice

>>59403705
Corporate cuck detected

>>59403725
Force you to use their repair service that don't even repair everything.

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>>59403728
That's a lovely retort.

I'll just be here repairing things with pirated schematics until you come up with an actual argument.

>>59403649

nobody is forcing anyone into OEM repairs.

If Apple sells a phone that can only be repaired by them its what they can do. Nobody forces you to buy such a phone.

>>59403669

I don't fucking care that people are too dumb too read. IF someone buys a box named 'Shit' with Shit in it and then complains that there is Shit in it its not my damn problem.

>>59403699

>great for consumers
>great for small businesses

You don't get the bigger picture here. Its a matter of principle and freedom.

I dont give a flying fuck about repair shops because its not my damn problem that they can't adapt to changing circumstances. If you build a business entirely dependent on another business don't complain that you are vulnerable yourself.

Offer something else. Do something of value. Don't force the other business to give you a benefit to stay alive because you think thats now your right. It doesn't work that way.

Why not open a store that sell shit and then demand that the government makes a law that requires people to buy shit from you? Free money. I mean you gotta pay the bills somehow right? Its basically what these repair shops are doing.

Why don't you demand that we get rid of cars because you want to open a horse cart wheel store?? What about the people who can build horse cart wheels? Shouldnt they get paid too?

>The only way you could be against this is if you're a corporate shill for big business, aka a cuck.

See this post >>59403383

Apple has over 100 Billion in the bank. They don't give a flying fuck and can afford this easily. It would favor them actually and make them more dominant in the market place lol. Its actually arguing AGAINST corporatism.

>>59403752
The idea is you shouldn't have to pirate illegally to get documents and information to repair your own devices

Massachusetts already passed right to repair laws for cars that allows consumers to work on their own cars and companies have to publish schematics to allow consumers to repair their cars with.

>>59402636
> one of the companies plans to say that consumers who repair their own phones could cause lithium batteries to catch fire.
Yeah because the manufacturers fucking glue them in with crazy strong adhesive that you have to slowly stretch out from underneath the battery and it breaks half the time
REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>59403772
>nobody is forcing anyone into OEM repairs.
Apple sure is when they lobby for anti-repair bills

>If Apple sells a phone that can only be repaired by them its what they can do. Nobody forces you to buy such a phone.
This is completely erroneous I should have the right to repair my devices. There are tons of examples where apple refuses to service your system and you can't pay to have their shit fixed.

The consumer (with the anti-repair bills) would be forced to pay an OEM for services or repairs they might not even want to do leaving you shit out of luck meaning you have to buy another phone leaving you dead in the water.

Thats not right and thats not fair. Give the consumers the choice, they should have the right to repair their devices.

>>59403772
>You don't get the bigger picture here. Its a matter of principle and freedom.

Literally nobody but corporate cucks care about these buzzwords. Should we allow people to go around murdering each other willy nilly? That's freedom, after all, right?

>>59402995
exploiting a monopoly/oligopoly != muh freedums

>>59403774
I think you're confusing me for someone else in this thread. I'm lobbying for the right to repair.

>>59403772
>Its a matter of principle and freedom.
You should have the freedom to choose your repairer/service not be forced to pay the OEM for repairs.

>I don't care about repairshops
you're a fucking retard, its not an argument to magically say "I don't care" and suddenly it doesn't matter

People should have the freedom to choose which repairer they want to go to. How the fuck can you talk about "freedom" but you seem to be all for limiting consumer choice and their freedom with it?

>>59403772
>IF someone buys a box named 'Shit' with Shit in it and then complains that there is Shit in it its not my damn problem.

Apple deceived them into buying shit tho

>>59403810
Ironic the corporate cuck is using "principle" and "freedom" isn't it? How about the "principle" of having ownership of and the ability to fix your own shit? Or the freedom to not be forced to choose OEM repair that may not even fix your shit for any amount of money.

>>59403800

>Apple sure is when they lobby for anti-repair bills

they don't. They are lobbying for freedom to run their own business the way they want to. Nothing else.

Nobody forces anyone to buy an Apple phone. How many people forced you to buy an Apple phone? Did some apple employees come into your house and put a gun to your head and forced you to buy an iPhone? What the fuck are you even saying?

>>59403800

>I should have the right to repair my devices

You do have a right to repair your devices when these devices can be repaired by yourself. This doesn't include devices you can't repair yourself btw. Don't buy these devices if you want to repair them yourself.

its really simple my dude.

>>59403810

>Should we allow people to go around murdering each other willy nilly? That's freedom, after all, right?

There are laws against this and its still happens? Do you think a law written somewhere can prevent murder? Really?

>>59403812

>Apple has a monopoly

I don't think you know what a monopoly is.

>>59403827

>Apple deceived the customers

prove it and make millions or even billions from your own lawsuit until then don't pull shit out of your ass

>>59403772
>I don't fucking care that people are too dumb too read.

>no guys, apple's 55 page eula to use itunes is totally a-ok you're just dumb and don't wanna read a fucking novel. Apple din du nuffin

>>59403825
>How the fuck can you talk about "freedom" but you seem to be all for limiting consumer choice and their freedom with it?

Because he's a corporate cuck. Literally stockholm syndrome from watching too much Fox News.

>>59403772
>You shouldn't be Apple to repair your car got
>You shouldn't be able to repair you house

>You shouldn't be able to repair your toilet

Yes goy,buy a new one instead or use a OEM certified. Kikster repairman,he is the only Corperation approve repair man!

>>59403812
Actually no, that's reducing someone's freedom. There's no magical frontier where bad things don't count as freedom.
If I pass a law saying murder is illegal, you're not less free.

>>59403853
>There are laws against this and its still happens? Do you think a law written somewhere can prevent murder? Really?

So we should have a law that punishes Apple for not releasing documentation on device repair. Thanks for agreeing, I guess?

>>59403853
>they don't.
you're fucking dumb, look at the OP's thread. They're lobbying against the right to repair bills so they can stop publishing repair documents

>they lobby for freedom
>by taking your freedom to repair your own or take your device to another serviceman

>>59403861

>still pretending its illegal to repair things for yourself

when will you stop twisting the story in such a deceiving way?

>>59403884
it would be if apple's lobbying gets the right to repair bills defeated and gets their own anti-repair bills

>>59403772
>Its a matter of principle and freedom.
It's a matter of sustainability. Humanity is not in a position where we can afford to be wasteful indefinitely. Local repair is extremely efficient compared to scrap-and-buy-new.

>See this post
The infrastructure required to provide schematics and parts is miniscule. Hobbyists are doing it. You don't even have to provide parts yourself, just let people buy them from your supplier.

>>59403853
>Do you think a law written somewhere can prevent murder?
When it's backed by people trying to enforce it

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/02/brazil-state-faces-deadly-chaos-police-strike-170208195531770.html

>>59403861
Gas gentiles. Jews are superior.

>>59403342
I like how none of the corprocucks responded to this.

>companies start colluding by taking away the ability for consumers to change their own batteries, use SDcards, root their device and repair their device unless they say so
>some corporate cucks start defending these companies saying they don't have to give out repair documentation, just buy a different phone if you don't like it!
>bootlicking corporate cucks outnumber sane and reasonable people, making "vote with your dollar" fucking useless
>other phone options are..... fucking nothing
>wow why are you guys trying to make things better for consumers that aint murrica

When was 4chan overrun by poor neoconservative simpletons with double digit IQs?

>>59403963
because apparently the corporation can have the freedom to limit your freedom but if you want freedom by means of legislation thats really communism and you're anti-freedom

I can't respond to every single one of you retarded repair shop owners commies, liberals and economic illiterates one by one.

You get my point. Leave the government out of this and stop making dumb shit into law that help nobody.

I don't have any problems with the fact that you demand something from Apple but do it without crying for the governments help because that'll backfire eventually.

Why not make it a bill that repair shops have to repair phones for free? Wouldn't that even be more consumer friendly? Are you lefties anti consumer or something?


>>59403963

> A successful corporation would not need to fight bills like these, as they'd already be offering the best repair services themselves.

my posts adressed this issue. I said its a matter of principle and freedom. Apples already offers customer service and repairs phones in their Stores lol. The point is that the government has no right to FORCE companies to do it. They can offer this by themselves - or not. ITs up to them.

>>59403982
>>59403987

stop same fagging this whole thread. Everyone can see that you don't add a new IP in this thread. Autism lmao.

>>59403466
>the actual free world
this
murica should stop calling itself the land of the free. They're objectively worst off of all, in freedom and in everything else.

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>>59403994
wrong again you corporate bootlicker

>>59403995

yeah thats true unfortunately but thats because lots of americans became content and see it all as given and think this is all normal and demand all this FREE stuff. Just look at this thread and all these commies.

its no wonder that sanders is so popular. People forget that they are living in the greatest nation on earth and ruin it slowly and turn it into fucking China.

>>59404008

i can exchange all my You's into yours with 4ChanX .. how does this prove anything? Nice try.

>>59403994
>you're a communist if you want the right to repair devices that belong to you because you're retarded because you can't read a 55 page eula to use itunes

>corporation should have the freedom to take away your freedom but if you want the right and freedom to repair your device means you're a communist

>>59403987
Also completely ignoring several posts I've made about how companies refuse to offer services for any amount of money, which leaves you fucked.

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>"the freedoms of these corporations are more important than the freedoms of the consumers!"

>>59404018
>i can exchange all my You's into yours with 4ChanX .. how does this prove anything? Nice try.
prove its a samefag then you dumb faggot

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>>59403994
Like I said, double digit neanderthals

>>59404023

YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO REPAIR YOUR SHITTY DEVICES MORON

HOLY FUCK!!! Fucking STOP already my fucking GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JUST FUCKING STOP !!!!!!!!!!!!!

HOW CAN YOU LIE TO YOURSELF THAT HARD?!!

NOBODY IS TAKING AWAY YOUR RIGHT TO OPEN YOUR PHONE AND TO REPAIR IT!!!!!

>>59403647
>>the customer doesnt know!!
>wew nice argument my dude. Did you know that companies have to provide tons of information about their products, ToS etc. Everyone knows beforehand what hes buying and if he fails to inform himself thats on him.

Lmfao you debunked your own argument. If you think people read that shit you must be ultra stupid. Yeah you can blame someone for not informing themselves but it doesn't change the fact that they didn't inform themselves, idiot.

>>59404043
>You're allowed to repair it!
>You just have no idea of any parts you need
>Good luck goy ;)

>>59404043
>YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO REPAIR YOUR SHITTY DEVICES MORON
Not without this bill that guarantees my right, with the corporation lobby working against my right so they don't have to publish documents that would allow me to repair it. This works for cars why can't it work for phones?

>NOBODY IS TAKING AWAY YOUR RIGHT TO OPEN YOUR PHONE AND TO REPAIR IT!!!!!
Apple is when they don't wanna publish documents to schematics that would enable me to repair it

>>59404056
This. >>59403647 is so fucking dumb he contradicted himself lmao. This is what happens when you watch too much Fox News.

>>59404064
>>59404066

NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO BUY SUCH A PHONE!!

BUY A PHONE FROM A COMPANY THAT PROVIDES THESE INFORMATIONS AND LETS YOU REPAIR YOUR PHONE!!

DO NOT LOBBY THE GOVERNMENT TO FORCE CORPORATIONS TO GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT!

THIS IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE AND LEADS TO FULL BLOWN COMMUNISM AND TOTALITARIANISM QUICKLY!

>>59404088
Yeah man, you can always buy a phone from....erm....uh.... well I'm sure someone will do it eventually! This is the beauty of the free market!

>>59403994
>They can offer this by themselves - or not. ITs up to them.

I think the fact that they choose not to offer the best possible service speaks to their incompetence, and such failure should not be defended under the guise of freedom.

>>59404088
It doesn't matter about which phone I choose. It doesn't matter which company, they should all provide documents so I can repair it.

>just don't buy a phone that doesn't respect your rights
I shouldn't have to rely on a company to acknowledge my right voluntarily. It seems that apple and google already wanna check out from right to repair stuff when they actively lobby against it.

I shouldn't have to worry that suddenly a company revokes the documents then I'm out of the ability to repair

my rights should not be voluntary or at the whim of a company

>>59404088
>DO NOT LOBBY THE GOVERNMENT TO FORCE CORPORATIONS TO GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT!
So you're saying I shouldn't be allowed to lobby against a company who wants to take away my freedom but a company can lobby against me to take away my freedom?

jesus you sure are a corporate autistic bootlicker

>>59403649

Yeah it's commie shit. It's extremely heavy handed way of solving a problem with origins somewhere else.
You have no competition so corporations get away with selling stuff people don't even want, shit like drm farm equipment.

>>59404136
>Yeah it's commie shit.
>its communist to want freedom
kek you're so fucking delusional.

>omg the corporations are oppressed because they have to publish schematics

>they should lobby for their "Freedom" by taking away consumer rights

When I buy a phone, it's my phone. I don't loan it or rent it from a company, it's mine. This is how buying things should be. This means that I should be allowed to do with it what I want, because it's mine.

Companies shouldn't be forced to provide the information I need to repair them. They don't have to. But if a repair shop can fix MY phone, I should be allowed to take MY phone there to get it fixed, because it's mine, so I make that decision, not the company I bought the phone from.

>>59404088
>Nobody is forcing you to buy such a phone

AND WHAT IF YOU ALREADY HAVE THAT PHONE NIGGER? What about the random businessman that doesn't know shit about technology, that has important shit on his phone, that becomes defective and apple REFUSES to repair it. What then? This bill needs to pass in this industry like it did in the auto industry. Period. No amount of you crying like a bitch will change that.

>>59404203
get fucked commie

It makes me physically disgusted to read this guy's posts.
The "communist" name-calling, the shamelessness of his corporation-consumer double standards, his tone full of bile.

>>59403449
>Manuals: Make publicly accessible, standardized service manuals in an electronic format.
I'd be okay with this.
>Schematics and circuit diagrams: Make semiconductor diagrams and data sheets publicly accessible.
Absolutely. If we equate this to software, it's one of Stallman's four freedoms.
>Software updates: Allow owners and independent service providers access to machine code and firmware patches and fixes.
Same as above. Security updates, at least.
>Licenses: Make all contracts clearly identify which elements of the machine are not included in the sale. Do not allow companies to create contract language (End User License Agreements) that add new requirements for support in the future.
That's an okay way to handle non-free parts, I guess.
>Parts + Tools: Make service parts and tools available at non-discriminatory pricing to equipment owners and third parties.
This one I'm iffy on. The corporate dicklicker's entire argument hinges on this, that it's forcing companies to sell their physical property. I can see his point here.
>Patents: Encourage patent licenses to produce repair parts and tools available under fair licensing terms.
My native language isn't English. Does this mean licensing out production of spare parts, ie. as long as you pay the license your own factory (not the phone manufactorer's) can produce competing spare parts? I would like to see this.
>Diagnostics: Make troubleshooting and diagnostic tools, codes, and service software available.
Absolutely.

>>59404216
This must be some meta commie shit. This nigger is asking for freedoms to be taken away while screaming "Get fucked commie" at people.

>>59404116

>such failure should not be defended under the guise of freedom.

so what you are saying is companies shouldnt have the freedom to provide bad service?

you want the government to force them to provide a "good" service? lol ... yeah we all remember how well the Soviet Union did this and everyone lived with the finest soviet products for ages. This works so well my dude!

We should really care a lot about Apple and make sure the government gives them the competitive advantage they need and explains them in detail what they should do to make the most money. Surely its only the government who can do this and thatll stop the corporatism!

>>59404132

> a company can lobby against me to take away my freedom?

NOBODY IS TAKING AWAY YOUR FREEDOM.

Stop making this fucking BULLSHIT UP here. When will you stop? Seriously ... this isnt funny anymore.

When Apple brings out the new iPhone and you can't repair it without Apple simply do not buy it. Its not necessary for you to own the new iPhone at all.

>>59404165

>But if a repair shop can fix MY phone, I should be allowed to take MY phone there to get it fixed, because it's mine, so I make that decision, not the company I bought the phone from.

Yes that isnt a problem and that isnt what this bill is about. IF a repair shop finds away to fix a phone even without apple providng the information they can do so however.

Apple can say the phone doesnt have any warranty anymore whatever cause its their right to do so etc but nobody t akes away your own freedom to go to a repair shop lol.

ITs just the shit people make up here.

>>59404203

>and apple REFUSES to repair it. What then?

did apple promise him to repair the phone when he bought it? did he make a contract with apple promising him this? if so then they should do it.

If not - why should they? You can't just turn Apple employees into your slaves.

Are you also in favor of slavery?

https://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere

It's John Deere's freedom of choice to sell you tractors that you don't legally own! If you don't like it, go buy another tractor from...erm....uh...well, I don't know, someone will provide competition sooner or later, that's the beauty of the free market!

Stupid libs and commies trying to dictate what we can and can't do! monopolies and collusion are natural parts of the market! Deal with it! Freedoms!

>>59404242
>NOBODY IS TAKING AWAY YOUR FREEDOM.
Clearly they are, Apple doesn't want me to have the right to repair my device, choose a repairman or anything. thats anti-freedom.

>just don't buy a phone you already have but apple refuses to service but you can't go to anyone else or repair it yourself because you don't have the information to do it because apple lobbied against your right to repair it. Buy another phone goyim

>>59404235
>forcing companies to sell their physical property. I can see his point here

Chinks sell all this shit already. People want the option to buy from the OEMs instead of having to rely on third party chinks. Because all of it is coming from the same place. It's not like the OEMs are getting some higher quality shit. They're getting the same garbage from China, sometimes even worse quality allegedly.

>>59404265

just stop its getting embarassing really

>>59404148
You are an idiot. Incidentally these type of laws are going to ensure you will have even less competition. The compliance cost is going to hurt the little guys the most. Your mom and pop kickstarter product isn't going to hire a lawyer to find out about intricacies of each states different right to repair law. The small player is also going to be the one with most trouble supplying all these manuals, spare parts and software updates.
Actually you are the corporate bootlicker. You want the big guy to have the market all for himself alone.

>>59404242
>Did apple promise him

Yes. They did. A one year warranty. Which they can arbitrarily decide to not guarantee.

>>59404291
not an argument

>>59404310

>Which they can arbitrarily decide to not guarantee.

thats not how it works. Ever read those terms? They are pretty detailed.

>>59404291
I'm embarassed that apple doesn't want me to have the right to repair when they're actively lobbying against my right to repair?

how ISNT that anti-freedom?

>>59404299
>You are an idiot. Incidentally these type of laws are going to ensure you will have even less competition.
No they fucking aren't. It'll help keep repairmen employed and allow people to start their own repair services with said advents.

>the compliance cost
what the fuck does that even mean? The "little guy" will be getting the schematics to get it so they can repair them.

>each states different laws
no one cares about other states laws, its your state's law specifically the one you live in, you wouldn't care about another.

>you're a corporate bootlicker for not agreeing with me that apple should lobby against your right

k you're fucking stupid

>>59404299
Most of those kickstarter projects already release the info that would comply with right-to-repair laws

>>59404339
That's quite literally how it works.

>Iphone breaks, headphone jack breaks
>Apple refuses to repair the headphone jack but will offer a replacement phone
>Customer is now out their data but with a new phone

>>59404339
No those terms often say "we have the right to end this contract when ever we want without notice" Which often turns into them not being obligated to anything in their contracts

>>59404242
>so what you are saying is companies shouldnt have the freedom to provide bad service?

No. I'm saying that you're not particularly clever by encouraging that.

>you want the government to force them to provide a "good" service?

Yep. In this case it increases sustainability.

I'm also in favour of breeding licenses, how does that make you feel?

>>59404350
>How isn't that anti freedom

Because he's a retarded troll. At this point people should be ignoring him. The only thing he has brought to the table is

>B-but you didn't sign any agreements with apple!
>Muh freedom! (even though it is entirely ANTI Freedom)

>>59404368

>I'm also in favour of breeding licenses, how does that make you feel?

at least you admit that you are a deranged individual

>>59404364

>Customer is now out their data but with a new phone

lmao. What are you even saying? is it apples responsibility now to back up all your data? they tell you before hand and offer numerous tools for you back up anything.

This can't be your argument here? People losing data lmao.

>apple tells me im going to get a replacement phone
>wow im so surprised that my new phone doesnt have all my old data

literally who does this? what are you even saying? do you even believe yourself when you type this stupid bullshit out?

Can't believe people here are truly defending this anti-consumer shit. Is this truly how far /pol/'s stupidity has spread?

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>>59404395
Exponential growth is never sustainable, and I'm looking forward to seeing your face on the day when the exponential growth of the human race comes crashing down.

In the meantime, go make more babies. ;)

>>59404299

exactly what im saying.

These lefties call me the corporatist cuck when they are the ones bootlicking the big corporations again. Its what the democrats did for ages but these sanders supporters never get the message.

Just look at ANY Milton Friedman debate. Its the same shit over and over again. He was evidently the most anti corporatist guy on the panel but all you get form lefties is autistic screeching over literally nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3N2sNnGwa4

Enjoy .. 10 episodes of required watching for all the autistic lefties ITT.

>>59404452

actually the UN calculated that the 12th billion human being will never be born my dude.

Birth rates get lower and lower over time esp. in the "3rd world". Overpopulation is a myth and will never occur.

>>59404442
Look at the president they elected. Many of them are on stamps, medical assistance or neetbux. Stockholm syndrome.

I know a single father in town that voted for Trump. His daughter has a chronic illness and with Trumpcare, there's a strong chance that she can die because she wont be covered under insurance anymore. You simply cannot help their stupidity.

>>59402636
>say that consumers who repair their own phones could cause lithium batteries to catch fire.
>remove the solid frame from the li-po battery
>glue it into the phone
>argue that it might catch fire if people try to replace it

What exactly is the argument for gluing the battery into the phone anyway? Phones with removable batteries have no real issues with it not being secured in there with glue.

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>>59404482
That's nice. By the way, I found your source, I'd love it if you read the title.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2014/09/17/science.1257469

I don't see what the problem is. These companies don't have access to their product after it's sold. They cant stop people from fixing them. They don't have to support a product with botched attempts at repair either.

>>59403853
apple is trying to secure and exploit a monopoly on repairing apple products even though there is no reason why they should be the only ones capable of repairing them.

>your thousand dollar macshit isn't working properly because a one dollar part is defective? too bad, we won't repair it, we won't tell you that it could be repaired by replacing a one dollar part, we'll sabotage others who could repair it by preventing our suppliers from selling the parts to others. buy our new thousand dollar macshit!

>>59403144
>the reason they always go together is that regulations are a response to monopolies,
In some cases yes, but not always. For example AT&T lobbies hard against the Google Fiber so that they can maintain their monopoly. I know you have to have regulations to prevent monopolies but if the system is corrupt it can be also used to maintain the monopoly and hinder competition (Monsanto's campaign against GMO labeling).

apple should choke on a fucking apple

>>59404442
>>59404520

>/pol/

pol is statist bootlickery. They are literally fascists and would happily align with the fascist lefties ITT

They hate libertarianism with all their guts cause they unironically believe its a jewish conspiracy against the white men. Don't believe me? Go there and make a thread.

>>59404520

>here's a strong chance that she can die because she wont be covered under insurance anymore.

this is for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJvxPy6xpOg&t=1062s

>>59404578

>s even though there is no reason why they should be the only ones capable of repairing them.

actually there is. Cause they made it and sell it to you based on those terms. Agree to it and its your fault. Nobody forces you to agree to it.

>>59404555

thats a study making assumptions based on the study by the UN

>>59404544
Saves a fraction of a penny for every phone produced.

>>59404581

>I know you have to have regulations to prevent monopolies

monopolies come from regulations.


https://mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly

>>59404034
but corporations are people according to the Supreme Court.

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>>59404595
>thats a study making assumptions based on the study by the UN

OK. Could you link to that study? My little communist brain can't figure out how to find it on my own.

Don't worry, I won't actually read it. I promise.

>>59402636
It's obvious that the big companies want to get in on the repair money, if you send it to the repair shop you void your warranty, simple as that, but, guess big companies always want more and more $$$.

>>59403050
Will fall for bait.

Apple will sell the parts so repair shops can repair using apples parts and not some shit that will die within two weeks.
Apple will get money for selling parts.
Repair shops for repairing.
The only "loss" apple has here is that they will not take warranty off or disregard peoples phones because they weren't fixed in applel lab™
So no need to buy ANOTHER iphone12s

>>59404655
>want to get in on the repair money

What about when they refuse to fix shit for any amount of money?

>>59404675
>Some shit that will die in two weeks

But that's what apple uses.

>>59402636
>>59402766
>>59402781

It's obvious the big companies either want the consumers to buy new products or send them for repairs to them. If you send your product to a repair shop, you void your warranty, simple as that.

But... big companies always want more and more.

>>59404351
If they are it's just out of luck, these kickstarter small producers don't have lawyers lying around. Apple and John deere have.

>>59404350

The little guy may not even have access to all the schematics necessary, the little guy isn't like apple who controls the entirety of his production.

>A compliance cost is expenditure of time or money in conforming with government requirements such as legislation or regulation. For example, people or organizations registered for value added tax have the extra burden of having to keep detailed records of all input tax and output tax to facilitate the completion of VAT returns. This may necessitate them having to employ someone skilled in this field, which would be regarded a compliance cost.

If you are selling a product, through a kickstarter for example, you wouldn't want to restrict it to a few states only. You need a certain volume for it to be worth it.

>>59404637

https://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/publications/files/key_findings_wpp_2015.pdf

page 8 .. key findings 4/5 ... really likely that the 12th billion human will never be born.

>>59404637

Don't worry
I did all the work for you already.

>>59404675

what bait? what are you even saying?

this has nothing to do with what i said. I simply said the government has no right to force apple to sell repair parts to shops and publish manuals for these shops.

They are against this.

You are arguing from a position that doesnt exist and pretend Apple is for it and is happy about selling faulty shit to stupid repair shops.

>>59404452
why did you delete?

>>59404992
>Government has no right

That's obviously wrong, otherwise apple would not be afraid of this and going so far as to tell lies about it.

>>59402995

If one assumes that you are right they should fix other issues which Apple benefits from like patent system.

Antitrust division exists for a reason, USA capitalism is not ideal. You might argue against antitrust division as well.

>>59404595
>offering things for sale means you can just make up rules on how the future OWNER is allowed to utilize HIS OWN GODDAMN PROPERTY
no. fuck you, kike.

>>59405047

do you people ever take this to the logical conclusion?

you always look at these cases as if they were seperate and have nothing to do with anything. Why is that?

Why not be honest? Why not demand that the government forces Apple to give everyone a free iPhone. Isn't that what you really want?

>>59405096

> you can just make up rules on how the future OWNER is allowed to utilize HIS OWN GODDAMN PROPERTY

nobody does this. This isn't what this is all about. Did you read the thread?

Go ahead repair your iPhone, open it. Cum inside of it. Do whatever you want with it. If Apple doesn't provide you with some thing you need to repair it - tough luck. They don't have to and they never told you that they will provide you with it.

You can invent your own method of repairing your phone and do that - you can't? Too bad.

Point is .. nobody prevents you from repairing your phone or forbids it. Apple just isnt required by law to sell you parts to repair it.

You can ask them to do this though. You don't need the government to help you out for it.

>calls people kikes
>wants free services from Apple employees like a kike

rly meks ya fink.

Do you also demand free food, free housing, free water, free everything? What are you? Some hoodrat?

>>59402636
This is why there needs to be a push for libre hardware. If all hardware was open and documented bullshit like this wouldn't exist. Hardware is more important than software.

>>59405149
>Why not demand that the government forces Apple to give everyone a free iPhone

Alright people, he finally admitted it. You can stop replying to him now.

>>59405071

>If one assumes that you are right they should fix other issues which Apple benefits from like patent system.

absolutely. I despite patents. They are disgusting. Patents are protected and granted by government power and obviously hinder progress and competition.

Look at shenzhen. They don't give a fuck about patents there at all and actually share "Intellectual Property" to benefit everyone. Thats why the chinks are making trillions in tech and are so fast at everything.

>>59404544
so you have to pay them to replace it if it fucks up

>>59405179

what?

>>59404709
Maybe actually read the bill before you post

>>59402995

Found the shill

>>59405275

yeah its really sad that people who defend fundamental american values and principles are now the shills and commies are the good guys.

Thanks Bernie Sanders!

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>>59404715
>really likely that the 12th billion human will never be born.

The findings you point out are discussing the vulnerability of these predictions to birth rates. Saying that anything is likely or unlikely by those points alone is deceptive. However, I read the entire thing, and the key to the entire paper is this growth graph, from which the medium model is taken. It does look surprisingly positive, I do admit. Here's to hoping that the medium model proves true.

>>59404595
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJvxPy6xpOg&t=1062s

His answer is literally 'We don't want to come off as assholes and tell people to go die, so let's pretend to offer them help personally, right after we bitch about muh taxes'. I mean, I didn't really expect anything other than the usual 'we don't have the foresight to see the, even personal, benefits of social programs, we just hate niggers so we refuse to pay taxes' spiel, but the slimey way he dodges the question and responsibility by saying YOU and YOUR CHURCH should pay for peoples healthcare particularly leaves a bad taste in my mouth. These people desperately want to put a positive spin on their bullshit to appear as well-spoken saints, but it's so pathetically transparent what the real motivation is between the contradictions and the cult of personality circle jerking in the Youtube comments, giving praise because they feel they now have the ammo to win debates simply by repeating "ethics has no place in polictics" as if it were a line written in the fucking bible. What a joke.

>>59405275
Seriously, he's retarded. I guess the government should just remove the Federal Meat Inspection Act. It's clearly Anti-Freedom for the meat companies. Forcing them to sell certain meats and to keep sanitation standards? That's fucking outrageous.

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>>59405310

my whole point was that this whole overpopulation meme is completely overblown

>>59405322

you have no evidence for any of that. "Haha he hates niggers and wants poor people to die!"

Why not watch more of what he has to say? He addresses this type of logic pretty often cause its so common among liberals like you.

Explain to me how its a bad thing that people should care about each other in some type of community rather than cry for the government for help? Don't use "haha nobody cares about other people" without offering no evidence whatsoever for your crazy claims.

Yes churches, synagogues, mosques and the community are an infinitely better solution than crying for the government to redistribute money with guns

>>59405334

well thats actually true. I suggested that the commies ITT should watch "Free To Choose" by Friedman from the 1980s. It addresses this issue aswell. It features highly contemporary debates in the latter half of every episode where lefties attack the points made. Its really interesting and television of such quality will never air again. If you are up for it and interested watch it. I dont expect you to agree to any of it but its still a really good watch.

You can choose to stay in your bubble and don't confront yourself with any points contrary to your own opinion - you are free to choose after all ;)

God bless amerigga!!

>>59405445
>Explain to me how its a bad thing that people should care about each other in some type of community rather than cry for the government for help?

If the """community""" already did this, then we wouldn't even the ACA in the first place, would we? We could just go down to your magic little churches and grab our cancer medication, right?

Your shortsighted greediness is incredibly transparent, just like this Shapiro tool. Even he knows that nobody will take his agenda seriously if he tells people how he really feels. You have to sugar coat your greediness to humanize it so everyone will feel justified. Luckily for this guy, when he ends up with a terminal illness, he'll have all kinds of support-- you and the other little sheep in the cult of greed, not so much.

>>59402766
>How about they stfu and stop thinking they can buy people's freedoms?

In reality it's consumers who are paying Apple to take away their freedoms. Think about it: No customers, no power.

>consumers who repair their own phones could cause lithium batteries to catch fire
We've had phones with replaceable batteries for a long time. Apple were the first ones to stop you from being able to easily replace your battery. Again, it's up to consumers to not buy products where you can't easily do this.

People have also been replacing batteries in phones and other electronics you have to unscrew and open for a long, long time and this hasn't been a problem. The only phones that did have these problems were the Samsung's where the batteries were defective. It's true that if you put a bad battery that will explode in any phone then that battery will explode. Part of the reason we really need a "Right To Repair" bill is that it's sometimes hard to get original batteries.

>JUST BUY A NEW ONE
Exactly. They don't want you to be able to repair your own phone. Again, just don't buy products from corporations who discourage you from doing so.

>>59403144
>the reason they always go together is that regulations are a response to monopolies
This is simply not true; there is a reason that large corporations lobby for more and more complex regulation: It kills competition. Just look at what is required to start a small business in a vast number of fields. You simply can't because it takes an army of lawyers and a lot of money to navigate all the regulation. This prevents new startups which gives big corporations less and less competition.

>>59405664

>If the """community""" already did this, then we wouldn't even the ACA in the first place, would we?

obviously not. Government alienates us for decades or even centuries now and made us believe its the only solution to every problem.

> Even he knows that nobody will take his agenda seriously if he tells people how he really feels.

tell me how he feels then?

> Luckily for this guy, when he ends up with a terminal illness, he'll have all kinds of support

why is that tho? because he is a jew? he never came from a particularly rich family, went through the public school system. Graduated with 17 from UCLA. Wrote a best selling book in 2 weeks. Had a degree from Harvard Law by the time he was 21 and is the youngest syndicated columnist. Wrote multiple other best selling books. Worked as a lawyer. Started companies. Has a Podcast with hundred thousands of listeners.

Did the evil system made him do all of this?

You should stick to his approach and learn to use actual factual evidence to support your claims and not just make up bullshit based on your own feelings. This won't work well for you but i guess im talking to a full blown liberal because if you didn't get confronted at least once with your ridiculous belief system during the election then you must live in some crazy bubble anyway.

Stay in it and dream of a time where the government will make everyones life great and keep voting democrats that never do anything.

PS: he hates Trump, was the #1 target of the alt right, /pol/ and anti semitism in 2016. You should give him a shot. Hes on your side - but you aren't on his.

>>59405776
His response had zero facts, no evidence, just a bunch of fee fees, and telling other people to pay for others medical costs, which is the same exact thing they're trying to get away from.

>>59403752
That's the messiest goddamn workspace I've ever seen
What the fuck anon

>>59405860

>which is the same exact thing they're trying to get away from.

no. its about government force and the redistribution of wealth. Nobody cares when people pay for others lol.

Its a problem when the government forces people to give up control over their money and redistributes it. He offered a solution to a question thats often presented.

You can go ahead and destroy him on everything. Write a blog post on medium.com or something and BTFO the Shapiro. You will become rich in no time cause every News Network is going to pay you for interviews and oyu can write an award winning book.

The lefties are trying to kill him for a few years now but they simply can't.

GL on your endeavour and little side project.

>Arguing with a retard that thinks the meta industry should not have safety and sanitary regulations imposed on it

Why are you arguing with him?

>>59405977

because evidence simply suggest that these regulations don't do anything but expand the power of the government for gains of politicians and corporations.

I even directed you at the evidence but theres no hope. You simply BELIEVE that all the regulations are helping you out. Good for you my dude.

Keep on following your leaders and don't look behind the curtain. Its exactly what they want.

>>59405915
>Nobody cares when people pay for others lol.

Why would they? Greedy people love not paying for anything, even if it would affect them negatively in the future by opting out.

>Its a problem when the government forces people to give up control over their money and redistributes it.

Tax is necessary for any functioning modern society.

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>>59406081
>Greedy people love not paying for anything, even if it would affect them negatively in the future by opting out.

well thats a contradiction in itself. Why would anyone who is greedy go for something that would effect him negatively?

>Tax is necessary for any functioning modern society.

highly debatable and usually revolves around the question for what the taxes actually get used. Some hardliners demand zero taxes and argue for it on a basis thats hard or even impossible to argue against. Some think its ok as long as you get what you pay for e.g. national security, police etc.

That the government is a money (tax) wasting kraken thats ever expanding is no secret thtough and people have every right to complain about this and pretending that its ok without criticizing it ever just asks for the government boot on your neck. Without voices who stand up against this the card house will collapse quicker than you can blink and you can be sure that THE PARTY is going to assign you a job in the bureaucracy soon and anyone who speaks against this will "disappear" jsut like it always happens when the government has too much power.

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>>59406163

ant meme

>>59406163
>well thats a contradiction in itself. Why would anyone who is greedy go for something that would effect him negatively?

It's not a contradiction, it's a consequence of lack of foresight by greedy, low IQ individuals. For example, you may not want to spend your hard-earned money on foodstamps for those homeless black men that like to hang around your workplace at night, why should you? You earned it, you don't owe them anything. One night after leaving work, you get mugged by these starving, homeless men. They stab you, take your wallet, car keys and bolt with your vehicle. You don't like paying taxes so an ambulance will never come and there will be no police or any chance to recover your stolen goods. Could things have been different if you weren't too cheap to pay taxes? Perhaps, this is just one potential scenario when you lack foresight.

>>59406462

what the fuck ...

see thats why nobody can listen to this liberal garbage anymore. Its completely ridiculous and it just enrages people when you come with these crazy loaded examples of literally nothing to make a "point".

This is precisely the bullshit why Shapiro is so god damn popular, why Trump won (in part), why nobody can hear the media spouting this type of garbage anymore. Why the whole internet is raging about leftists liberal snowflakes who have no brain etc etc.

At least do yourself a favor and present some actual arguments and don't make up some retarded story that pretends the government is an angel and prevents poverty and doesnt let greedy racists get away with their greed and racism.

Seriously this is just fucking nuts. Diversify the way you acquire knowledge, don't be afraid of reading sources you may not agree with. Its important. It really is.

>>59406545
So you're telling me that crime would not rise as a result of taking away the social safety net? Are you seriously that blinded by greed?

>>59406545
>see thats why nobody can listen to this liberal garbage anymore.

I'd rather listen to neither that nor the eternal "communism" screeching of your side. No resolve will ever emerge out of such antics.

Freedom is good, but can be abused.
Regulation is good, but can be abused.
Ultimately, any sustainable solution is going to contain a large portion of both. The "free market" is going to become a major halting force in human development rather soon, as it will try to avoid the transition into a post-scarcity society to any extent possible. If humanity as a whole doesn't realise this, then we're going to get what we bargain for.

>>59406545
Shapiro is popular because he's a great mental gymnast who makes people feel good about their retarded ideology.

>>59406614

what you are saying is that crime levels would reach zero the stronger the social safety net is ... this isn't the case at all. Crime actually occurs on every income bracket. The face of the crime just changes. There is generally more white collar crime in higher income brackets. How do you fix that? More taxes too?

Virtually all cities ran by democrats are PLAGUED with high crime rates (Chicago, Detroit).

This is completely besides the point. Don't you see how you are playing into the hands of power hungry politicians that present themselves as the answer to every problem.

I know this is a general tactic used by leftist. You people do this all the time to sway away from the actual argument about principle and to distract. You never take anything to their logical conclusion, you never think about this on a fundamental level.

>>59406707

well see i do the 'communism' screeching cause people understand what i mean by that. I actually dont have an issue with left libertarians cause they generall despise liberals as much as i do. So yeah those AnComs actually hate liberals because they recognize that the liberal position is usually highly inconsistent and illogical because liberals in the US usually appeal to authority and hierachy as much as the people they try to call out. Thats why hits amusing to many of the left and you people get called capitalists all the time in rad left circles.

>freedom can be abused

by who? then its not freedom anymore.

>post scarcity

no such thing exists. There will always be scarcity. The free market doesn't prevent anything. It can't because its 'free'.
Its by definition unfree right now. We are in a mixed economy.

We live in a society/economy that creates demand out of nothing - there will always be a service, good that is scarce - be it scarce through a lack of labor resources or anything else.

>>59406804

well i said before. BTFO Shapiro and get rich in no time (not joking). Do it - people are waiting for it.

>>59402636
Will right to repair apply to other items such as cars, toasters etc?

>>59406870
>Cars

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Vehicle_Owners'_Right_to_Repair_Act

>>59406816
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/reports/2014/03/31/86693/the-safety-net-is-good-economic-policy/

Educate yourself.

>>59406956

sure i'll read it. You and me. We both know this source is highly biased and gets sponsored by the DNC.

I'm just pointing this out. The difference between me and you is that i read this shit and nationalreview, dailywire, vonmises institute and make up my own mind and listen to both side of the argument.

You however do not.

>>59406901
YES!
GREEDY DEALERSHIP MECHANICS BTFO!

>>59406816
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ben_Shapiro

Benjamin blows himself the fuck out on a daily basis, he's a professional. The only way you can reason with conservatives is by agreeing that we should reduce the tax collected on their Walmart checks, beyond that, they don't care.

>>59406816
>by who? then its not freedom anymore.

Only in an ideal world. Entities possessing power are likely to use those powers to limit the freedom of others if they stand to gain, and they are free to do so. Remove government, and power persists regardless.

>There will always be scarcity.

You cannot know this. Humanity has been excellent at creating things which are desired. We're quickly moving toward a world where the vast majority of humans are not required to work, as we've solved the problem of a scarce workforce through automation. At worst, we're moving toward a point where the scarce things are menial and easily acquired. How should we translate human life into purchasing power, when one can no longer sell their labour?

"Let them die" is a valid stance.

>>59406995
I seriously doubt you can even read. You're the type of person who has Microsoft Sam reading posts to you while you indoctrinate yourself with Milo videos.

>>59402766
IPhone access isn't an essential freedom

>>59406956

It basically says that every form of poverty reduction is due to government programs and benefits.

Do you really believe this aswell?

>>59407124

>rationalwiki is a source about anything

its a literal meme site lmao.

Well i mean if its so easy to murder him completely just go ahead and do it. Put your money where your mouth is my dude. It can't be that hard if hes a fucking retard!! I mean hes a C u ck after all right?! ;)!

Im just saying he has valid points and makes arguments you can listen to.

You can choose not to do this and stay in your eternal bubble. Nobody cares tbqh and you dont get good boi points for only looking at one side of the coin. No need to run around and tell everyone that you are afraid to confront yourself with words that make you feel uncomfortable lol.

>>59407157

>Remove government, and power persists regardless.

ok? can we agree then that removing the government is a nice first step then deal with it afterwards lol.

>>59407157

>You cannot know this.

what do you mean i cannot know this? there simply cannot be scarcity. Even when you take the famous Apple example.

Lets say you and me are living in a society with an infinite number of Apples. You have one and I do. You bite in your apple. This is a part of an apple i cannot acquire anymore. It is effectively consumed by you and you only. You created a situation of scarcity by eating an Apple i cannot consume anymore even though i have my own one but its not exactly the same.

There is an infinite number of software you can write, an infinite ways of arranging music.. there will always be scarcity of something and we will invent new technologies, new ways of doing things. When Marx wrote about scarcity he didnt know that mobile phones or software will be a thing that could be scarce one day.

When you criticize an "ideal world" thinking and then talk about post scarcity it really deafeats the point you are trying to make.

>>59407158

what triggered you now?

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>>59407222
Get a load of all the damage control from this corporate cuck.

>>59407289

>no new IP added to thread

whats the point?

>>59403201
This guy gets it.

>>59403725
And funnily enough, to the so-called defenders of freedom, we will be more free if we let them limit our choice.

Remind me again why we let libertarians roam free around the Internet, please.

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just get a fairphone, they are designed the way you can repair it yourself

>>59402636
What is warranty void.

>>59407222
>can we agree then that removing the government is a nice first step then deal with it afterwards lol.
No, as just "removing the government" would shift power onto even less favourable entities. We'd get a government under a different name. We probably agree that governments often use their power poorly (to limit freedom of individuals), and I think that's an issue which should be resolved. I'd love to see a government with nothing but bare-mimimum power to affect individuals in ways other than monetary.

>Apple example

Sure. However, that scarcity is menial. Neither individual stands to gain anything other than a piece of an apple. I'd rather live in that world than in this, even though I'd be likely to go to war over that piece of apple.

Point being that I want to figure out a way to get to that point, and that it would be close enough to a post-scarcity scenario that you might as well call it that.

>>59407399

> we will be more free if we let them limit our choice

what?

freedom means to have limited choices?

what are you even saying?

Libertarians ITT:

>let corporations do what they want
>let the people vote with their money and make them fail if they provide shit service

Screeching Repair Shop Owners:

>no no! the government has to make sure that X corporation i build my whole business on and i rely upon heavily gives me all the tools i need to repair consumer entertainment devices which are of vital importance to mankind btw

>id also point out that im a leftists who happens to be a business owner who takes advantage of surplus value by having employees
>im not a capitalist though haha im not one of them im just a small business owner!

>government regulation is always good when it favors me .. however its bad when it doesnt favor me

>id also like to add that all consumers are fucking retarded who can't read and get ripped off by big businesses
>they will never get ripped of by me though because when they are my customers they are highly educated who get the best service at the lowers price .. the government makes sure that this will happen

>>59407436

ironically AnCaps and lots of libertarians oppose the monetary system the most.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjdwzZAj-yE

>Point being that I want to figure out a way to get to that point,

Capitalism instead of Corporatism, Plutocracy and cronyism.

>>59404614
You're retarded and didn't even read your own link. It's saying that granting natural monopolies is bullshit, not that natural monopolies can't exist. Jesus Christ trumptards are dumb.

>>59407507

>It's saying that granting natural monopolies is bullshit

this makes absolutely no sense. What do you mean by that?

>granting a natural monopoly

??? ... It literally says that natural monopolies arent a thing because they are created through government interference historically.

Calling me a Trumptard just shows that you didn't even read the thread at all. Why do you say that people don't read when you evidently dont even read yourself? Makes no sense tbqh.

>libertarians
>trumptards

lol

>burgerclaps can't even repair their own phones without being jailed
Kek

>>59407498
>ironically AnCaps and lots of libertarians oppose the monetary system the most.

I agree with plenty of things people under those labels say, and I frankly don't care about such labels at all. They only serve to polarise people.

>Capitalism instead of Corporatism, Plutocracy and cronyism.

The issue at hand is to figure out how to prevent the former turning into the latter three. The current attempt is called government and it's not going very well.

>>59407633

>The issue at hand is to figure out how to prevent the former turning into the latter three. The current attempt is called government and it's not going very well.

You can only take advantage of people that have power aka politicians. Strip away their power and they are worthless.

This is why you don't swim in lobbying shekels but politicians do.

The problem is that many people nowadays think you just have to switcharoo the politicians and this iwll stop and even worse give them more power - it just has to be the right guy! That'll fix it!

Thats how you end up with Stalin, Mao, Hitler & friends in office.

>>59403752
Where do you get them?

>>59407696
>did shit with old iPhone and the dock for some reason only charges, no data, don't show up on PC via USB
>checks out over repair shops to fix it (just switch the dock conector would do)
>they charge as much as half the price of the phone to do it, I say no
>Go home, get on youtube, check how to open iphone and switch the dock
>pretty easy and straight foward
>find a dock for 8 bucks on aliexpress with all the tools to open the phone
>give it a go
>package arived 1 month later
>tries it out
>worked like a charm

Since that day I just say, fuck repair shops, I just fixed and old LCD tv for a quarter of the price they wanted to fix it, just bought spare parts of it online and put it together.

Fixed a telephone that its speaker wasnt working by just switching it. Repair shop does stuff that might be a hassle but is easy as fuck if you give it a try and do some research. We don't need them.

>>59407696
A fast google search with the right words you can find repair guidance for any eletronics.

>>59407675
>You can only take advantage of people that have power aka politicians. Strip away their power and they are worthless.
I agree. The problem is that some form of structure of governance is required in order to make decisions. With no power, we lose our ability to act as a group, and with that our ability to achieve great things. Humans are, as you say, awful at handling power. I'd love to see some kind of government AI, but it's a pipe dream.

Again, we arrive at the spot where we need to figure out some way to prevent entities with vast resources and/or power from exerting power over those with less. We also need to figure out what we as a species want to achieve, in a really broad sense - and then figure out a system to achieve that.

>Thats how you end up with Stalin, Mao, Hitler & friends in office.
Also Trump. Don't forget Trump.

>>59407843

> I'd love to see some kind of government AI, but it's a pipe dream.

yeah id be in favor of a libertarian monarchy ran buy an all knowing AI tbqh

>Also Trump. Don't forget Trump.

i'll add him to the list when he deserves it. Right now hes so far away from Hitler, Stalin and Mao that hes basically living in another universe.

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>>59402636
IT'S OUR DEVICES NOT YOURS
WE PAID FOR THEM
THEY'RE OURS NOW
FRIG OFF

>>59407862
>yeah id be in favor of a libertarian monarchy ran buy an all knowing AI tbqh

Sweet. Glad we've come to agree.

>i'll add him to the list when he deserves it. Right now hes so far away from Hitler, Stalin and Mao that hes basically living in another universe.

Of course. That was a joke.

>>59407900

>it is that easy for policy makers to trick people
>just give your bill a fancy name

>>59403794
>breaks half the time
Shit I'm lucky if it only breaks half the time 9 times out of 10 I just pry it out

>>59407918
>it is this easy for ideologues to trick people
>just claim your doctrine is for freedom

>>59402995
How hard is it to sell replacement parts? It's also preventing waste. Please get of that Libertarian meme, identity politics wagon. You look like a fool to reasonable people.

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Just buy chinkshit
I have a Fiio X3ii player and the chinks sell you literally any spare to repair it. From the battery, screen or even the clicky wheel. They also send you video instructions on how to repair it
Although the original iPod is heavily moddable and repairable none of that is because of the kikes at Apple

>>59402995
TRUTH!

Fuck laws. No one should be forced to do shit.

>>59410104
B-but, if I don't have the freedom to force my customers buying brand new phones when a perfectly working but old unit has an easily fixable breakage, then what freedoms do I have?

>>59403772
>Nobody forces you to buy such a phone.
Well, by that very same logic, nobody is forcing manufacturers to comply. They do have the option to stop making phones.

>lolbertardianism is that easy to dismantle

>>59402995
Could you please start your posts by saying you have an anarcho-capitalist sympathies so that decent people can be tl;dr'd about how reading what you post would be a waste of time?

You John Galt fucks pretend to care about market interventionism in general but always get ten times more butthurt when something has a consumer protection angle instead of a corporatist one.

>>59410204
No one actually believes that stupidity unironically. Those are shills, and they can't start their messages with a warning, otherwise they won't get to persuade any useful idiots by making them read it.

>>59405016

Would also like to know.

>>59402995
They shouldn't be allowed to sell things that break down and then withhold the parts you fucking retard.

>>59404992
"Force them to sell repair parts"
You know, they are doing it for you.
Its only fair that apple will do that, because they are having a monopoly on repairs.
When corporations have monopolies, government is allowed to take charge.

Let's say amd is bankrupt and the close the company
Now nvidia has monopoly- so nvidia can charge any price they want.
Government says"no, you'll price it fair until you have competition."
So what the government is doing with apple, is restricting them from monopoly on parts. They create competition in the market, which is how capitalism works.
You can switch to communism if you do no like it, just be ready to work for free:)

>>59403209
Its so true. Its like political science. Both are a bunch of retards trying to make their job justifiable

>>59404619
Wait ... their dicks in your mouth is not prostitution ?
ikr !

>>59404619
And gay pairs are actual couples and should be allowed to marry according to the Supreme Court. Your point?

>>59403647
This here is why I can tell you're an apple shill. You think all of 4chan is /pol/.

>>59407013
Not really. Cars are becoming more and more complex so when there is an issue you will probably have to go to the dealership.

>>59402636
>too dumb to get certified
>i need the government to regulate every aspect of my life!
(((Trump))) will probably latch on to this he loves dumb causes.

>>59415828
Not really, the only cars that are known to be over engineered are german manufacturers like BMW, Audi and Mercedes. Every car can be readily worked on but each has their own quirks and stuff. And dealing with an ECU isn't hard when you have the appropriate equipment.

>>59415828
t. bus rider

repairing cars isn't difficult. Whats difficult is having the tools readily available to use. Tons of people who didn't get a simple socket set, car jack and funnel so they can do stupid simple shit like change their oil are the ultimate losers because they have to pay someone to do it for them.

>>59415855
this isn't the government regulating your life you dumb fuck its a law establishing a right so apple can't fuck you

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>>59415941

>laws establish rights

>>59415955
I didn't say that, its a simple law acknowledging a simple facet protecting consumers and a repair industry from companies who want to refuse to provide service or not provide simple documentation to repairers or consumers so that they can fix their devices.

>>59415941
why cant apple insist on certified repair for a better experience?

are they forcing you to buy their product?

>>59415993
>are they forcing you to buy their product?
See >>59410172

>>59415955
>the only rights are in the constitution, a government can't establish or acknowledge extra rights

Some states have rights to abortions but not others. Its a state law in that case.

>>59415993
>why cant apple insist on certified repair for a better experience?
for the same reason a dealership can't insist on a certified repair for your car.

>are they forcing you to buy their product
no but under that doctrine you imply, they want to force you to get repaired at their service centers only and thats not right and its anti-consumer

>>59415861
>>59415893
It's not difficult at all. But the more sensors and electronics that they add to a car makes it much harder to work on. Sure it can still be done but it's not as easy.
I happen to have all the tools I could ever need, and my Dad is a very good mechanic. So I will most likely never have to go get something done.

>>59404992
>...the government has no right to force apple to sell repair parts to shops and publish manuals for these shops.

Would a chalenge to such a law be found in violation of controlling federal laws/regulations or the Constitution of either the particular state or the United States?

If not, the state government has a right to pass and enforce such a law.

Your best bet would be some sort of "discriminates against interstate commerce" claim, so your muh free market argument would have to rely on the very same Commerce Clause that would give the federal government the right to apply this standard in all states and territories.

>>59416731
>It's not difficult at all. But the more sensors and electronics that they add to a car makes it much harder to work on.
not really, sensors have been in the cars for over a decade. The electronics are widely documented and almost all of them have schematics printed on the insides of their housings. Tampering with the ECU by comparison is way harder. You ever have to replace your own O2 sensors or disable them completely because its just a fucking O2 sensor and doesn't mean shit for your car but it keeps throwing a CEL regardless?

>>59416775
>Your best bet would be some sort of "discriminates against interstate commerce" claim,
it didn't work for car makers in Massachusetts doubtful if it would work for cell phones

>>59416792
And there are way worse and more dangerous ways to fuck with your car than the lobbyists worrying about "people could conflagrate their phone batteries!" I can think of 3 ways to turn a car into a running death trap for the user and the other drivers around him. These phones are WAY less complicated in comparison

>>59416792
Two completely different situation. There should be laws to stop or limit how you can modify your car so you don't kill yourself and who knows how many other people. A phone is completely different.

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>people push for laws regulating businesses in order to protect our rights
>libertarians: "THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO RIGHT TO DICTATE WHAT I CAN DO REGULATIONS ARE USED TO PROP UP MONOPOLIES STATISTS GET OUT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

>big corps lobby for regulations to screw competition and consumers and prop them up as monopolies
>libertarians: *crickets chirping*

Yeah, then you libertarians look surprised when we eventually send you off to gulags.

>>59416933
>There should be laws to stop or limit how you can modify your car so you don't kill yourself
There really aren't unless you live in commiefornia, everything save for noise, emissions and inspection if the car passes it its street legal.

Its not completely different at all, manufacturers of cars are obligated by law to provide schematics to the car so it can be serviced appropriately. Why can't phones be the same?

Basically the only way your car isn't street legal is if it doesn't pass inspection and desu even in an emission state its pretty easy to pass inspection. You can have a turbo with a bad tune in a car that wouldn't be able to take the pressure of a tune, put 87 octane into it and watch the preignition happen so bad the fuel detonates in the cylinder and blows your engine. Totally legal because an inspection isn't going to check that stupid shit

You'd be surprised how few car regulations there are outside of inspections, emissions and stupid shit

>>59416779
I think O2 sensors can help you save a bit of fuel. Not much tho.

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>>59402636
Shit like that is why United States of America is so fucked up

>>59417256
freedom to run your own business and not be bullied by bratty redcap trumpite internet social justice maga retards?

>>59403348
1. You only lose all of your data if you're a stupid faggot and don't back up your device regularly.
2. If you don't like this, why would you buy an iPhone?

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>>59418587
>blaming the victim

>>59418399
The point being you don't have freedom to run your own business without getting fucked in the ass by your corporate overlords that you voted into power, and that this law wont pass because the stupid fucking yankees didn't exterminate the rednecks before they could vote in enough republicans to gut your economy past the point of return
gg you money worshipping dogs

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ITT: libertarians defend pic related

>>59402995
oh great, the fucking shills are here