Name a better language. Protip: you can't

>>59366654

HolyC

>>59366654
Ruby + FFI. Best of both worlds. You can use Ruby for all your high level code and C for all your low level code. C++ is a shitty compromise between low and high level.

>>59366917
Except it's faster than all of those.

>>59366926
>C++
>Faster than C
Yeah, GTFO

>>59366671
im proud this is the first reply.

>>59366940
But it's true.

>>59366671
>>59366952
Go away Terry you samefag

>>59366654
literally any modern language

C++ is a fucking shtheap and any language with such a piss poor preprocessor and lack of module system.

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Ada

>>59366940
some C++ compilers are much better at optimizing for certain cases because of the helpful abstractions in C++

get fucked C tard.you're language is even worse than C++ which honestly is sad.

>>59366654
How do you guys rate your C++ skills.
I would say I m 5/10 .
Job never made me improve my skills but own project for hobbies did.
Also what is best way to improve C++ or any programming skill?

>>59366996
>>59366958
>makes assertion
>provides no supporting evidence

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>>59366654
Java

>>59367010
also helps that template metaprogramming prevents certain iterative build bullshit, so more OPTIMALIZASHUNS can occur.

>>59366999
>Job never made me improve my skills but own project for hobbies did.
Well then you have a shitty job. I practiced on my own for 10 years before I worked up the courage to start applying for jobs (I should have done it about 6-8 years earlier desu). I have been learning far more rapidly since getting a job than I ever did working on personal projects (although at a certain point you hit a plateau if you don't switch things up)

>>59366999
If you think you know C++ ... you don't know C++.
That's all I'm going to say.

>>59366654
Every language has its applications. There're applications where C++ isn't the best option.

>>59367043
this.

also helps that various companies have their own "standards" that limit how you're even suppose to use it.

but I don't think anyone can claim to be higher than maybe 7/10 with modern sepples standards.

>>59367017
Sure, templates would be the only example of a useful C++ feature. That doesn't make the binary executables execute faster though. It just means it requires less code when you want to apply the same logic to different data types

>>59366654
Ada is genuinely better

>>59367080
it does mean faster though because you can't do iterative builds with templates.

iterative builds = OPTIMALIZASHUN cancer

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>>59367080
>only example of a useful C++ feature

>>59367103
give me a specific benchmark example that I can look at and verify for myself.

>>59366999
>Also what is best way to improve C++ or any programming skill?
Contribute to open sores

>>59366984
>>59367085
Prove it faggots

>>59366654
C#

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>>59367280
>CLI
>.NET
>System.Diagnostics.Debug.WriteLine

>>59367293
>not using mono

>>59367131
why though?

C and C++ speeds are 100% dependent on the compiler and how closely they follow the spec or not.

I mean older fortran use to have performance advantages over C purely because older compilers and language specs assumed aliasing wasn't going to be a problem.

anyhow. C is shit. fucking upgrade to C++ already.

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>>59367233
built-in multitasking
developed for general and safety critical applications and is therefore much safer and more reliable than C and C++
not caps sensitive fuck that retarded kikery
compiler is faster in many cases see pic related

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>>59367304
>mono
Enjoy your VM based programs

>>59366654
> wants to discuss programming languages
> only states opinions and no facts
> tfw initiated noob thread
GTFO

>>59367332
>g++
Found your problem

>>59367333
VM Based?

>>59367349
it changes nothing, Ada is superior to C++

>>59367356
What do you think Mono is?

>>59367392
isn't it an open source reimplementation of .NET?

>>59367328
>anyhow. C is shit. fucking upgrade to C++ already.
I've been using C++ for 11-12 years already. Ruby + FFI is still my preferred choice nowadays. Do rapid prototyping in Ruby. Identify bottlenecks. Implement those parts in C.

>>59367430
What do you think .NET is?

>>59367439
C# Library from Microsoft?

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>>59367456
Wat

>>59367470
then what is it? It's a framework, which is like a library.

>>59367233
>An actual type system
>Robust tasking system
>Option of runtime checks or not
>More readable genetics system

>>59367498
>It's a framework, which is like a library.
No, a framework is a loose bullshit term which can contain pretty much everything, altough some say that it tends to go along with inversion of control.
In .Nets case, it's a standard library, some compilers and the CLR, but also some additional libraries, depending on the edition.

>>59366654
Everything that doesn't screw up that bad for the inclusion of other files is automatically better by default.

>>59367041
Lets say I make network softwares that is used by cable operator, telecommunication, netflix.
That is not enough.
When I first did my openGL project my rendering was stupiditly slow. If I had learned anything good from that job I would have optimized my game better but I guess job enabled me to apply C++/C in one particular are not overall programming skills.

>>59367293
>>59367280
Can anyone write down the compilation pipeling of .NET. I kind of forgot.

>>59367683
Depends.

>>59366940
>>59366958
>>59366996
I wonder if you are trolling or just clueless
all languages has its use, speed is irrelevant most of the time
There might be speed differences in small to medium projects due to implementations
But in big projects difference is negligible

I mean why not use java

I like FORTRAN

>>59367691
Myself here. Let me remember.
>Text file
C# Compiler, C++ compiler, etc
>Common intermediate language
.NET object file
>Common language runtime
Run the fucking program

So basically a java design port.

>>59366654
Latim

>>59367752
>alternatively
compile to native binary directly
use some IL to native compiler
compile to Papyrus bytecode
compile to JavaScript
compile to whatever else is there, like other shitty language targets

>>59367737
>speed is irrelevant most of the time
Depends on what you're working with. Some of us value efficiency above everything else. For some use cases I agree though, efficiency isn't the most important thing.

>>59367737
>speed is relevant most of the time
FTFY

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C++ is fucking garbage though.

>>59367845
I don't think you should take a hardware and kernel designers word for that.

>>59367737
>speed

I think you mean overhead. OOP languages produce overhead in order to make programming easier.
Speed is a VERY important factor in any program. Don't tell me you'd rather use bogosort than quicksort.

>>59367845
His reasoning is decent but he throws a tantrum like a 5 year old child.

>>59367845
I'm the guy who is arguing in favor of Ruby + FFI over C++, but I stopped reading that when it got to the part where it says:
>boost is bad because boost is bad mmkay

>>59367845
>idiotic "object model" crap
What did he mean by this?

>>59367897
>Speed is a VERY important factor in any program.
no. speed is only a factor for very few programs. programming time is more important. who cares if the user has to wait 2 instead of 1 second when time to market or development cost are a concern.

>>59368024
t. Atom programmer

>>59367994
I think he means that grouping variables and/or methods together using a class is bad because "real" programmers use ed and have no use for IDE features like autocomplete.

JavaScript

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>>59367845
Gotta love the man.

>>59368033
t. jobless neet

>>59368081
nice argument, feggit

>>59368095
nice argument fejeet

>>59368114
nice argument kiddo

Racket

>>59368124
no you

>>59368024
No. Speed becomes a factor once lots of people use your shit and you need to implement stupid features your boss wants even though you told him it was a bad idea, and now the program becomes an unusable cluster fuck of load times and synchronisation failures because the original concept wasn't made to support all this bullshit.

>>59368024
Multiply those 2 seconds by a million users. Multiply that number by 365 days.

protip: things scale

>>59368024
>let's disregard hardware achievement so we can all use javascript

fuck your kind

>>59368157
more like
>let's disregard hardware achievements so we can all use low level garbage languages like ASM and C/C++
Hardware achievements are what make javascript feasible.

>>59368186
>it's either js or asm
yes, fuck your kind

>>59368255
>moving goalposts

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Easy, English.

>>59367897
>easier
What's wrong with making it easier to write reliable and reusable software thanks to encapsulation?

>bogosort than quicksort.
Choosing good algorithms is much more important than language choice. OOP overhead is only a constant factor.

Additionally, you shouldn't equate CPU time with speed.
Something like a web server will spent most of its time doing I/O.

>>59367994
Probably that OOP is a meme and trying to fit everything into a class hierarchy to satisfy a world view is both masturbation and a poor design choice.

>>59368437
>I don't get OOP
Despite retarded beginner examples with animals and shit, OOP isn't about creating hierarchical models of the world.

>>59368157
but js is shit in every metric

assembler

>>59368141
what you described has nothing to do with putting priorities into speed - on the contrary, speed-optimizing code often makes it less readable and more obscured.

>>59368508
Oh yeah? Explain why every OOP project does that, then? I like OOP, but inheritance is overused 99% of the time and overhyped.

>>59366654
HTML

>>59368763
Because retards.

Most OOP design books teach "Composition over inheritance".

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>>59366671
Woken

PHP

I'm the best C++ programmer that has ever lived.
Rate my FizzBuzz:
http://pastebin.com/X4jzhmfK

>>59370433
10/10

>>59370433
In action:
http://coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/267be625634af2b8

>>59366654
lisp is the one true language

>>59370433
Impressive

>>59366654
C++ is pretty decent, particularly the C++11/14 version.
However Common Lisp is way closer to "the right thing" than C++ ever will be.
And especially once you add types, it becomes lighning fast. In some occasions faster than C

>>59366671
I was truly stumped until I read this. fpbp

>>59370433
I've not seen FizzBuzz done as string literal building via templates before.

Bravo!

>>59372071
> "the right thing" is objective and universal
kek

CL is powerful/general in the same way C and assembler are: you can make essentially anything you want without violating language constraints or norms, at the cost of everything being project/group-specific ad-hoc shit.

Common examples:
- exceptions are a shit flow control mechanism, so being able to roll your own flavor is doubly retarded.
- same thing for coroutines
- true 1st-class closures necessitate non-linear stacks and GC, hence they have no place in systems programming

In a world where C++ needs to be cut down to defined subsets for different professional domains, Lisp is not a possibility even remotely on the radar.

>>59372639
>cl exceptions are shit
What planet are you from?? CL has by far the best exception handling mechanism

>coroutines
bordeaux threads and you are done. Super easy.

CL is the total opposite of assembly. Assembly forces you to stay at the bitlevel. with CL you go as high up as you want, you can make it even more powerful than haskell if you have an afternoon to spare. With the module system and the CLOS everything is nicely contained and not at all ad-hoc

C

>>59366996
I googled it and you're actually right
well shit

bye-bye manual memory management where everything made sense. You will be missed.

>>59372690
exceptions as a general language-agnostic mechanism are highly deficient. they're effectively a virulent and invisible method signature modifier.

rough order of shittiest to best mechanisms:
> global error id. e.g., errno. - special place in hell for this
> in-band special error values (return -1, etc.)
> return (val, err) tuples without mandatory checking (Go)
> exceptions
> return tuples with mandatory checking
> return unions/variant types, where data access is done through a checked type cast. Ideal if aided with light syntactic sugar for the cast.

>>59372960
>language agnostic
Bitch please, can your C++ do this?:
http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/beyond-exception-handling-conditions-and-restarts.html

>>59366654
This discussion will be completely worthless unless you define criteria.

But this is /g/, so keep sperging, weaboo autistics. Keep sperging.

>>59366654
i learned c++ and discarded it decades ago but I could pick it up again.

Im waiting until the MUD i used to play open sources to pick it back up again...

If there was a way to make money with it I would use any language. Guess what makes me money in my spare time? Webshit.

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Hey guys I'm currently taking c++ programming at my local community college. What projects should I try at this level?

>>59375036
write a complex number class with overloaded operators n shit

good practice

>>59375062
I don't know what that means.

>>59375105
wow they must teach you really well

>>59375233
maybe just try explaining a little better next time you pretentious asshole

>>59375251
what do you not understand mate
I will explain if you ask more specific questions

>>59375272
i'm just gonna go to reddit. they're more friendly and knowledgeable.

>>59375105
Google what a complex number is. If you don't know what that is (you should by now, honestly), figure it out.

>>59375300
you are parodying yourself right now

>>59368065
i know all the butthurt in this thread over it too. and he even provided a proper example to back his claim.
>muh kernel designer
>muh abstraction
>muh no overhead for OOP
hold on, i gotta push to monotonehub.com before i finish this post.

>>59366671
Fpbp

>>59367328
>"upgrade" to C++
>problem domain means cannot use STL and other things
>end up compiling C code with g++

>>59368835
Can C++ do multiple inheritance, mixins sanely?

>>59378555
I would very much like to see a problem domain where you really cannot use the STL at all.
And other things, like the template meta programming?

Have you considered the possibility that it is you who sucks and does not know how to use C++?

>>59366654
HTML > PHP > C++ > C

>>59366654
First for rust, /g/ is slow today

>>59366654
English. However, if programmers were allowed to program in English, you'd realize that most programmers don't know English.

>>59368136
ur mum

>>59379901
i made an interpreter in C that uses flex, bison, and a bunch of linked lists, trees and dynamically allocated arrays etc that i made from scratch in C

and the executable is still smaller than a simple .cpp file i made with std::vector

whats up with that?

>>59380682
Well, lets put it that way:
I build a dog hut with wood and a few nails in an afternoon, and yet its still smaller than the empire state building. Whats up with that?

Do you see the similarities?

>>59370433

That fucking horrible. Are you guys really this bad? I can do that shit with a loop and if statements in C#.

>>59366654
english

>>59381513
i can't tell how many levels of irony you're on.

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>>59367845
>Because you can make bad designs with OOP, you shouldn't use OOP

>>59367623
Then the way he called it wasn't wrong at all. Why did you get so butt hurt?

>>59367845
Based as fuck

>>59381117
but the main thing in the .cpp was the std::vector, and some input/output

in the interpeter there was dynamically allocated arrays (like vector), as well as lists, trees, lexer and parser

so its like i have the empire state building and you have the mud hut, but your hut cost 5 times as much

>>59370433
this is what employment looks like?

>>59382284
no.
You used a tiny, tiny feature set out of the huge C++ language. Of course if you do not need much at all you can do it small.
Even though I very much doubt that it was the fault of C++, I bet there are many option for reducing the size of the output file which you do not know exist. After all C++ is commonly used on tiny embedded systems and can be smaller and faster than C there

>>59367845
C++ is much better than C. That's the whole idea behind C++. Notice the "++"? Fucking retards.

>>59382437
one cannot argue with that logic for sure.

>>59382363
>I bet

so we're beyond evidence now, are we?

well i bet you stimulate your prostate with hot dogs, then eat them anyway.

>>59366654
D

>>59382363
Just read through the fucking documentary.
I am not specialized in tiny embedded systems.

Also I use a banana for that purpose, thank you very much!

>>59385243
fuck I meant to answer to >>59383295

>>59366654
Lua