/dpt/ - Daily Programming Thread

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Bad programmers write getters and setters for private variables.

Good programmers make variables public.

Thank you for using an anime image!

>>59338625
I agree with the first sentence

>>59338625
I agree with the first sentence

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What is a good use case for public variables?

>>59338670
Pure languages

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What made OOP so popular in 90s?

>>59338687
easy for retards

>>59338670
any read/write data that doesn't require validation through a set() function.

>>59338670
https://youtu.be/QM1iUe6IofM
I find these arguments (first 1/3rd of the video) for why it became popular to be very compelling.

>>59338712
Meant for
>>59338687

>>59338712
>45 minutes
Why there's always no transcript for videos?

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Do you perform Semantic Compression?

https://mollyrocket.com/casey/stream_0019.html

>>59338097
you render at 250fps for me if you actually calculate the fps correctly when using settimeout.
60 with requestanimationframe.

>>59338729
I'm not sure. Youtube content is usually for casual in the background listening rather than concentrated listening.
Maybe it doesn't translate well for reading. I imagine there was one made for the video and it's not just a rant.

today I learned about the wonderful world of writing your own output iterators.

if (config.translate_scancodes)
    std::move(kb_input.begin(), kb_input.end(), scancode::undo_translation_iterator(scancode_queue))

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Thanks OP. This is good.

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>>59338743
>Do you perform semitic compression?

>>59338795
I always keep recycle-chan empty

>>59338808
I don't have a recycle bin, everything I delete is permanently deleted (well not really but yeah)
I like to live dangerously

I'm writing a basic program to automatically schedule radio telescope measurements, which the program can process and use to make a map of the milky way.

>>59338603
No. OOP is a poor and extremely unobvious way to structure your programs.

>>59338832
do you have a cat?
mine once did ctrl-a, shift-del, y, enter somehow while sleeping on my keyboard.

>>59338652
What do good programmers write for private variables then?

>>59338687
It's still popular numbnuts. No one write in meme langs like you fags do and only EE majors use c. Enjoy being a jobless neet

>>59338897
either only a set() function (with or without validation), or only a get(). when you have both you might as well make the whole thing public.

>>59338897
Depends on the situation too much to answer well briefly. But naturally private hides variables. So it's for when the API user isn't meant to concern him/herself with those fields at all. You've established that as a rule for your software team when you use it that way.

They're exceptional cases.

I have new information about M$ and data collection.
Also I don't know how up-to-date that is, but it turns out that if you abandon cortana (that is, any winkey-style search in win10 since it all goes through cortana whether you like it or not) instead of finishing the interaction, there's a bug which makes cortana not send any telemetry. This is only applicable to multi-turn dialogues and possibly before making a single-turn query, though.

>>59338712
Huh, looking at it again it seems to start with the "why is OOP popular" at 8 minutes in.. I suppose the brief overview of what's considered OOP is pretty important though.

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>>59338899
Do you have problems with comprehension? Or you just have had a bad day and wanted to pour all your anger on me?
I am not asking why it is still popular. I ask why it became popular back then.
People in 90s seem to be very excited about OOP, and I wonder what's the reason of the hype. People now have OOP as given, so there's no hype - it's like you'd be hyped over potatoes.

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I'm working on a front end to ZFEC that is meant to be a kind of back up system. I posted my repo in the last thread for someone but he apparently left before I posted.

If anyone is interested in checking it out I'll repost the github repo for it. shit is gpled obviously

>>59338603
Das cute

>>59338625
What happens when you want to log every time the variable gets set? You have to go though all your code and change A.x = y; to A.setX(y); That's a massive pain. Worse, if you dont control the clients, you're utterly fucked.

>>59339062
>gpled
Dropped.

>>59339082
I add a change listener to the variable.

>>59339094
Why, are you a CIA nigger?

>>59339126
memory bloat

>>59339139
>Y-you'll lose 1kb of memory instead of 20 hours of development time!

>>59338603
Is there an emacs-tan?

>>59339131
Nope, if I do that I will stop being anonymous.

>>59339154
or you could write getters and setters like a good programer

How long will it take me to learn the basics of C from the C book?

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Is it possible to write your own self-learning AI?

How do you get started with this?

>>59338729
Haven't watched the whole video, but it seems that it's a repeat of a famous "oop is an expensive disaster" article. You might read that.

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>>59339158
3D, though.

>>59339082
Come on. That's a ridiculous reason to use set functions. You're telling me you're gonna write set and get functions everywhere for every variable you potentially want to log at some point?

You do realize the endless amount of things you would have to do if you wish to be consistent with this idea of flexibility right?
You'd basically have to implement a debugger and memory dump system into your program. But since you've already decided that set methods are the way to go for this functionality you're not gonna do this at some global convenient scale you're just going to make massive amounts of code that might never genuinely be used.

>>59339196
It's not that hard. You just make your program to remember all the mistakes she did in early runs so she won't repeat those mistakes ever again.

>>59339082
you set a watchpoint in the debug register and write an exception handler to trap fault 03 and send the value over serial port to a remote machine, of course.

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>>59339094
what is wrong with gpl? /g/ like open source, right? convince me to change it.

>>59339263
Why does she cry?

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>>59339193
>the C book
It's K&R isn't for beginners but it's not undoable or anything. It should be noted that it covers the standard library a bunch, which isn't necessary to know. The core language (basics as you might call them) is not particularly big.
>>59339196
This reminds me of putt putt saves the zoo.

>>59339275
Taste of freedom

>>59339275
loli hapi to eat hambaagaa

>>59339275
Nobody wants to fuck her and she will remain a lonely virgin.

>>59338625
What about using getters and setters for private variables while using concurrency?

>>59339225
>You do realize the endless amount of things you would have to do if you wish to be consistent with this idea of flexibility right?
like what? It takes literally 0 seconds to write getters and setters. Just write a vim macro. Most IDE's will automatically add them for you.

>>59339263
>what is wrong with gpl?
it's political garbage.
>/g/ like open source, right?
i never said anything about disliking open source.
>convince me to change it.
i don't have such power and you are unlikely to change since you've probably already been brainwashed.

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>>59339348
>using concurrency

>>59339405
>being from tumblr

>>59338625
>getters and setters
they write themselves

>>59339393
>Having to keep the program open is a political statement.

>>59339405
I need it for a small robot so it can handle user input while doing something more intensive in the background (so it doesn't lag or get stuck in infinite loops while testing).

>>59339425
>the gpl is the only open source license
sure, whatever you say.
you can't deny that the gpl is a political statement, I'm sure stallman himself would agree.

>>59339479
>you can't deny that the gpl is a political statement
What kind of political statement is this?

>>59339393
what is a better license and why? how is it political? I don't understand. I just want the code to remain open source, I don't give a shit about politics.

>>59339514
a very retarded one.

Disk I/O in interrupt/exception context.
Why is it a bad idea?

>>59339514
>>59339517
He just hates GPL because they want to closed it and make proprietary.

>>59339517
>what is a better license and why?
literally any open source license is less political (otherwise being very similar) than the piece of trash you chose.
>I just want the code to remain open source
if that was the only requirement you wouldn't have chosen the gpl.
>I don't give a shit about politics.
I find it very hard to believe.

>>59339039
Yes i am having a bad day fuck you

>>59339522
Pretty sure it's because disk I/O can block, which you don't want in that context

>>59339024
I'll check for questions for the next 2 hours and then I'll be gone for the next few months.

>>59339533
If I wanted to make something proprietary that joke of a license wouldn't stop me.

>>59339544
You can't answer my questions, can you?
If you don't know enough to explain and back up your opinions you should keep them to yourself.

>>59339405
>>using concurrency
proof /dpt/ only writes toy programs

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>>59339551
Don't worry, anon, I know everything is going to be OK!
You won't be having unhappiness all the time!

>>59339561
Why will you be gone?

>>59339566
Yeah it could and you're a nigger for it.

>>59339554
Is that the only reason? I mean the page fault handler has to do disk access and it's not a problem in that case.
I've read countless times how I shouldn't allocate memory in an interrupt/eception handler because it could trigger page faults or something and very bad things will happen. But nobody ever tells me what those bad things are.

>>59339599
i answered every single question you asked. if you didn't care about "sending a message" as you fags like to call it, you wouldn't be using the gpl.
>>59339643
>Yeah it could
not really.
>you're a nigger for it.
this is assuming I would actually do such a thing, which I obviously wouldn't.

Can I punch whoever designed HTTP Content-Security-Policy?

The special cases of none/self have to be in quote marks, but the arbitary-domain-protocol-bullshit must not be quoted. It's the most backward shit and makes any config I write trigger my autism. Fuck standards, fuck HTTP and fuck browsers.

>>59339618
>hear-shaped glasses
slut

You need to make a program where two characters can fight. The characters can use a wide range of weapons (from sticks to swords to sniper rifles) and wear a wide range of armor (from cloth to plate to kevlar).

Upon a weapon or a projectile hitting armor, it can either penetrate or not, it can lose damage while penetrating, it can damage the armor or not, and the damage caused to the armor can result in damage to a player character (broken plate armor digging into skin).

Example: a sniper rifle shooting at plate armor will cause minimal damage to the armor, but will kill anyone in the armor. A mace hitting the armor will severely damage the armor and hurt the person wearing it.

How do you program this, /dpt/? Do you make the weapons decide what happens when they hit various types of armor? Do you make armor types decide what happens when they get hit by various types of weapons? Do you make a controller class that determines what happens when a piece of armor gets struck by a weapon? Do you make a single big two-dimensional SWITCH?

>>59339682
Are you unhinged or something? I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Sending a message?

Your response to asking for A (NOT PLURAL, A, SINGULAR) better license was : HURR DURR ALL OF DEM U SO POLITICLLEL.

>>59339631
Because revealing information too often is dangerous.

>>59339745
Are you being surveiled?

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ActiveMQ or RabbitMQ?

>>59339766
Not anymore than usual as far as I'm aware.

>>59339739
you do realize that "a license" is part of "all licenses"? if you are telling the truth then choose literally any one of them as long as it isn't the gpl and it's open source.
>HURR DURR
Stopped reading right there.

I really fucking hate you and i want you to die

>>59339796
You still can't say why GPL is bad or why ANY other is better.

>>59339729
It's often wiser to have a numeric representation of the events. For instance, when you evaluate the damage done you can have hit points for the character and armor. The different types of armor have different multipliers for pass though damage (damage applied to character) and damage applied to the armor itself.

The most generic way of doing this would be to write evaluator functions for the armor that evaluates with the weapon type and damage as parameters. Polymorphism would let you easily direct the calls and handle the different scenarios cleanly.
If the interactions are complex this is the way to go.

I doubt it's all that desirable from a game design perspective though. Pointless amounts of knowledge to communicate to the player somehow. Unless it's a simulator.

>>59339024
Tell how do you do that, then.

>>59339889

new responder

GPL makes all forking software GPL, other licenses don't have this restriction and are actually open source/free

I think MIT is the hotness atm but it's been a while since I've been in the licensing space

>>59339966
Call a nigger a nigger, the FSF are just a bunch of jews.

>>59339966
Ok
So, if I forked an MIT license and change 1 line of code I could close the source and change the license?

>>59339348
It doesn't help if you have any sort of performance standards (usually slows you down below single threaded speeds).

>>59339991
microshill detected

>>59340018
https://tldrlegal.com/license/mit-license

>>59340042
(((FSF))) is trash
Not open source software, just (((FSF)))

>>59339039

Because somebody dealt with all the shitty function pointers in C and turned a purely imperative paradigm on its head so that you could reason about objects instead of "When my main loop gets to this line I want the machine to run this subroutine but only in thread 6"

>>59339959
Suppose you say
>"what is the weather"
This would be one-shot and complete the conversation, which would send telemetry. On the other hand, if you added
>"and fo"
and then stopped cortana, because the query w as stopped halfway, cortana telemetry would not be sent.
That telemetry is usually collected on 2 levels: every 10 minutes and hourly. The 10 minutes data is kept for only 6 hours, but the hourly data is saved for 45 days or more.

>>59340021
So what would you recommend as an alternative to concurrency?

>>59340100
Oh you misunderstand. I was complaining about the setters/getters, not the concurrency.

>>59340121
I misspoke, I meant what would be a good alternative to getters and setters for concurrency?

>>59340093
So, if you say some sensed query with garbage, you make Cortana stop before the reset?

>>59340018

I'm pretty sure that's what people have done

you're only meant to use MIT for shit you don't really care about, not production quality stuff that you intend to make money off

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How would you do UTF-8 in C?

>>59340160
No, it's about not completing a query within a conversation that is not a single-turn conversation.

>>59340151
Well there's so many ways of doing concurrency. I don't consider having a mutex on every set/get operation to be an option.
It's a big topic. For efficient systems where data sharing can be made infrequent job systems are very good. They're probably where you should start learning. It's not all that hard really. You just recognise the dependency chains you have and break them out into separate pieces, put them into functions and put pointers to the data and the function in a queue. Have threads eat work from that queue.

That's the coarse introduction. I can't give you good learning materials or anything.

>>59340151
I M M U T A B L E

S T A T E

>>59340202

#include <stdio.h>
#include <wchar.h>
#include <locale.h>

int main() {

    wchar_t string[1000];

    setlocale(LC_ALL, "");

    printf ("Enter a string: ");
    scanf("%ls",string);

    printf("String Entered: %ls: length: %d\n", string, wcslen(string));

    return 0;
}

>>59340218
But is Cortana the only tool of telemetry?

>>59340292
Useless meme for the most part. It solves a non-issue.

>>59340292
>>59340318
Not to mention it creates additional complexity for the programmer. You can't just declare a variable. You have to stop and think about whether it can be mutable or not.

>>59340306
>no one will ever enter a string over 999 characters
:^)

>>59340292
My code includes some of that (for bigger subsystems), but at times it just gets out of hand, and would make my code much much slower.

E.g. imagine using this for handling image processing.
States = ['idle', 'taking image', 'processing contours', 'cycling through contours', 'taking measurements', 'ready for data export', 'exporting data', 'resetting']

>>59340312
No, but it's the one that handles all winkey-like searches, and an interesting caveat suggests that entering a text query to cortana will in fact start recording your voice, computing a unique voice ID and sending it in along with other telemetry data.

Other than that, gaze (see: hololens), clicks, application status (running/minimized, focus-in, focus-out, mouse in, mouse out, that kind of stuff) is always recorded and sent on the same schedule as cortana telemetry.
Also, microsoft computes a unique ID for you as a person to use across all your devices, i.e. they try their hardest, even if you use different accounts, to combine these accounts under one ID. Information collected includes every single device you've been seen using, and for each program, if you're also using a program from a competitor in the same domain, as well as which of the competitors you're using the most, for instance.

Telemetry is available for android, ios, windows, and online services using asp.net or javascript.

Also, the O365 stuff basically records pretty much every single action you do.

>>59340343
>You have to stop and think about whether it can be mutable or not.
agreed. I'm also a double digit and it can be pretty hard

>>59340051
The ZFEC library that I am using is licensed under GPL. I was under the assumption that since I am writing code that is primarily using that library I have to use GPL (which I am ok with).

>>59340306

How do you access individual letters in the string?

>>59340343
>You cant just declare a variable.

final int a = 2;

>>59340370
>caring about all problems within one example piece of code
:^)
^
)

>>59340392
And you have to decide whether it will be a

final int

or just an int.

>>59340407
You have to do that regardless if you make it final or not. Are you dumb? Just change your default behavior and use final.

How do I get a non-lazy infinite data structure?

>>59340449
first get infinite ram

>>59340449
vectors

>>59340471
I have a lot of it.
>>59340472
How?

>/dpt/ doesn't even know MUMPS, still the #1 language used in hospital systems in the US.

GREPTHIS()
       NEW SET,NEW,THEN,IF,KILL,QUIT SET IF="KILL",SET="11",KILL="l1",QUIT="RETURN",THEN="KILL"
       IF IF=THEN DO THEN
       QUIT:$QUIT QUIT QUIT ; (quit)
THEN  IF IF,SET&KILL SET SET=SET+KILL QUIT

http://thedailywtf.com/articles/A_Case_of_the_MUMPS

>>59340449
Circular linked list.

Honestly I don't even believe Haskell exists, I've yet to see it once IRL with my own eyes.

>>59340430
Like the other anon said, this isn't even solving a real problem.
Don't solve fake problems. Just write code.

>>59340492
MUMPS:

OPERATORS: No precedence, executed left to right, parenthesize as desired. 2+3*10 yields 50.

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Where are you interning this summer /dpt/?

>>59340516
There is literally no reason not to use immutable variables by default

>>59340373
Can I avoid creating an ID with your way of turning off Cortana?

>>59340583
I told you the reason already.

>>59340615
The voiceprint ID is always created, it's just not sent to M$ because the telemetry data collected by cortana is dropped in that case. That ID is also unrelated to the unique user ID which is created and maintained if you use any microsoft program or service anywhere.

>>59340626
not a reason & also wrong

I'm checking out the new VS2017, and they said they're going to have support for C++17's constexpr lambdas in a future update.
A cursory google leads me to a guy who wants to put a lambda function in a struct.

Why would anyone want to do this? What are constexpr lambdas good for?

Could there exist a language without any I/O?

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>>59340763
I'm currently working on one. It'll have no I/O whatsoever.

This may sound really retarded, but what is the use of the Main method? I mean in the context calling functions. Are you supposed write 95% of code in different methodas/functions then just call them in Main, or are there other uses?

>>59340763
What do you mean by no I/O?
Does blinkenlights representation of RAM qualifies as I/O?
Do switches over some places of memory qualify as I/O?

>>59340783
Main is the function that gets called you call your program.
Other functions are called from main.

>>59340783
The Main function is known as an entry point.
You have a program. Where do you start from?

>>59340785
>What do you mean by no I/O?
No input/output.

>>59340799
from the first line

>>59340804
Please answer the rest of questions.

>>59340799
What if I don't want an entry point? Doesn't that make it vulnerable to hackers?

>>59340804
what would the point of that be?

>>59340817
I have answered not only those questions, but every single one of similar structure.

>>59340827
I'm just really sick of all the I/O bullshit. I just want to write programs without thinking about it.

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>>59340818
you are vulnerable to hackers right now because you are connected to the internet.
disconnect yourself, it will be more effective to fight with hackers.

I'm ripping my hair out trying to tackle Problem 3 on Project Euler.

// Global variables
            double sampleNum = 100000;
            bool isAPrimeNum = false;
            int primeFactorNum = 0;
            double[] primeFactor = new double [100000];
            double[] primeFactorList = new double [100000];
            int k = 0;

            // Identifying prime numbers
            

            // This loop controls the number we are testing
            for (double counter = 1; counter <= sampleNum; counter++)
            {
                // This loop controls all the numbers we will divide counter by
                for (double counter2 = 2; counter2 <= counter; counter2++)
                {
                    // We know 2 is a prime number and so automatically identify it as such
                    if (counter == 2)
                    {
                        isAPrimeNum = true;
                        break;
                    }

                    /* As long as counter and counter2 don't match and they divide evenly *at any time*
                    * then it will set the boolean value to false and break out of the loop
                    */
                    if (counter != counter2 && counter % counter2 == 0)
                    {
                        isAPrimeNum = false;
                        break;
                    }

                    /* As long as counter and counter2 don't match and never divide evenly by any other number
                    * then it will set the boolean value to true and continue testing
                    */

                    else if (counter != counter2 && counter % counter2 != 0)
                    {
                        isAPrimeNum = true;
                    }
                }

                

cont.

>>59340813
>>>/wdg/
alternatively, it should be understood that you must define things before you operate on them.
From the point of view of imperative programming, main() is the last function defined in a program. This is because everything needs to be defined before you actually run your program.

>>59340818
If you don't have an entry point, you have an amorphous mass of binary.
What you are actually referring to is known as an attack surface, and security experts will design an attack tree which models every possible attack vector.

>semi-large project in Java
>keep forgetting what the fuck you are even trying to actually do to all the methods being spread

>>59340793
>>59340799
I get that, but is there more to it, or are you supposed to make it look as clean as possible and just call other methods from it?>>59340804

>>59340842
How will you work with data?

>>59340844
Call campus security

>>59340846

// Once the nested for loop has finished
                // i.e. we have evaluated all numbers
                // there is an evaluation to print out whether counter is a prime number
                if (isAPrimeNum == true)
                {
                    primeFactor[primeFactorNum] = counter;
                    primeFactorNum++;
                    //Console.WriteLine  counter  " is a prime number.\n";
                }

            }

            Console.WriteLine ("Looking for prime Factors");
            bool processDone = false;
            double targetNum = sampleNum;
            int i = 0;
            int j = 0;

            while (processDone == false)
            {
                //testing to see if number is a prime number
                for (int counter = 0; counter <= primeFactorNum; counter++)
                {
                    // if number is a prime number, break out the loop
                    for (int counter2 = 0; counter2 < primeFactorNum; counter2++)
                    {
                        if (targetNum == primeFactor[counter2])
                        {
                            primeFactorList[j] = primeFactor[counter2];
                            processDone = true;
                            break;
                        }
                    }
                    

                   

cont.

>>59340854
Everything will simply be known at compile-time.

>>59340783
>Are you supposed write 95% of code in different methodas/functions

It usually ends up that way. If you put what makes sense to put in a function, then once your project gets big enough most of the code will be outside of main.

What are good x86 assembly books,?

>>59340861

 //otherwise divide it by a prime number
                    if (processDone == false)
                    {
                        if (targetNum % primeFactor[i] == 0)
                        {
                            targetNum /= primeFactor[i];
                            primeFactorList[j] = primeFactor[i];
                            j++;
                        }
                        else
                        {
                            i++;
                        }
                    }
                    if (processDone == true)
                    {
                        break;
                    }
                }
            }

            while (primeFactorList[k] != 0)
            {
                Console.WriteLine(primeFactorList[k]);
                k++;
            }

            Console.WriteLine("These are prime factors of " + sampleNum);
        }

Done. It's thoroughly depressing to see guys doing it in six lines in Python.

>>59340868
How everything will be known at compile-time?

>>59340846
>>59340861
>>59340876
Point and laugh as you see fit.

>>59340853
Your question is more along the lines of application design.
You will find that as you make more non-trivial applications, you will make use of main() less and less.
In every GUI application, main() is merely used as a bootstrap function to get the UI thread running.
Common design patterns such as MVC and MVVM will obviate the need to have primary logic defined in other classes, to be executed in non-linear fashion via events.

>>59340882
What do you even mean "how"? The compiler will just receive raw data to compile itself from within. It wouldn't even need to read a file.

>>59340890
I'm mostly working with console stuff since I'm fairly new. So basically try to use functions as much as possible, and call them in Main, right?

>>59340763
No. Side effects are what make programs useful. Even the most autistic functional programming language has side effects.

>>59340896
>The compiler will just receive raw data to compile itself from within
But it means compiler will get the input and output the input into the program.
You will have I/O then.

>>59340917
What language are you starting out with?

>>59340917
The idea is to break a problem down into smaller logical components, with a preference for reusability.

If you can predict or find yourself writing logic that can be broken down and/or reused elsewhere, you would probably benefit from separating that logic into multiple functions.

This also has the benefit of what is known as self-documenting code. Where a large function may work, it may be difficult to understand several weeks from now. Smaller functions require less effort to understand and modify.

Check this out:
https://kernel.org/doc/html/latest/process/coding-style.html

>>59340920
>useful
This buzzword again.
>side effects
It's clear that you know nothing about the subject. I/O and side effects aren't the same thing.

>>59340928
It will just run the program in itself, it won't produce any external files.

>>59340957
>It will just run the program in itself, it won't produce any external files.
What is "it"?
Compiler?

>>59340928
>>59340957
This is called a virtual machine. You know, JVM. Microsoft's CLR.

>>59340933
Should it matter? It's mostly syntax difference.
[spoiler]C#[/spoiler]
>>59340956
Okay, thanks for the answers.

How do you run an executable that's dependant on libraries

I mean I compiled it with everything and when I run it from the cmd it works yet when I double click the obj file it doesn't

>>59338603
How does one write a number in a label in Windows forms (C#). The number has decimals, and is a double.

>>59340990
I don't think it matters personally, I was just curious.

I started out with C# too, it's me favourite.

>>59340980
Virtual machine doesn't get data from the air. It has its inputs and outputs.

>>59340975
>What is "it"?
It maps source code to a program so yes, it's a compiler.
>>59340980
No, it produces native machine-specific code.
>>59341002
So the compiler getting "1 + 1" from stdin or just from within itself somehow makes a difference?

Trying to write a mesh viewer for Ogre3D .mesh binary files. Yes, I know these exist but I wanted to learn some stuff.

I'm using the OgreMeshFileFormat.h header to get the spec, but it lists pointers as part of the file format. How does this make sense? There's no guarantee those would be consistent, so why are they in the file?

As I have no idea what to do with the file at that point I'm losing alignment with the chunk ID headers and don't know what to do.

inb4 "Convert to the XML format", as I want to write a standalone tool for this.

>>59341000
>winforms
>2017
>being a masochist

>>59341000
Labels treat everything as text so it needs to be converted to a string.
i.e.

double result = 3.14;
lblResult.Text = Convert.ToString(result);

OOP is for niggers

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>>59341027
>So the compiler getting "1 + 1" from stdin or just from within itself somehow makes a difference?
That's what I was going to ask the no-I/O anon.

>>59341079
Well, I am certain "he" would say no. Because it's evidently true.

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>>59340165
What is the point of open sourcing something if you can just take it make it proprietary?

>>59341146
true, now ask the same question when you see this "man" you posted.

>>59340996
>>59340996
>>59340996
>>59340996
>>59340996
>>59340996
>>59340996

What are enums used for? Just for naming array columns or what? Help me understand please.

>>59340896
why not just use pipes to pipe data into programs stdin as a stream.
you really don't need a fucking new language to do something this retarded. you're basically banging your head against the wall.

>>59341203
What language?

>>59341203
for programming in pure functional compiletime language

template <int N>
struct Factorial 
{
  enum { value = N * Factorial<N-1>::value };
};
 
template <>
struct Factorial<0> 
{
  enum { value = 1 } ;
};

>>59341207
>why not just use pipes to pipe data into programs stdin as a stream.
That would be I/O. How can you not immediately see that "stdin" heavily implies I/O?
>you really don't need a fucking new language to do something this retarded.
I just wanted to use Haskell but it's fucking garbage and can't even give me the ability to remove all I/O from it. So I have to make something new.

>>59341162
his whole deal was making a platform in which software can be produced without worrying about legal problems. that is fucking easy to understand.

>>59341209
C sharp.

>>59341228
Simpler please?
t. retard

web dev is insulting to a programmer's intelligence. asking a programmer to do web dev is like asking a chemical engineer to clean toilets.

>>59341230
If the data is added at compile time that is literally the same as piping the data into a stdin... because.. wait for it.. YOURE USING IO TO GET IT TO THE COMPILER.

>>59341246
>C sharp.
Nah, fuck off.

Pls rate/give feedback on my fizzbuzz

#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdbool.h>

int main(int whatever, char **fuck_you) {
    for (unsigned int i = 1; i <= 100; ++i) {
        bool printed = false;
        
        if (i % 3 == 0) {
            printf("Fuck");
            printed = true;
        }

        if (i % 5 == 0) {
            printf("Butt");
            printed = true;
        }

        if (!printed) {
            printf("%u", i);
        }

        printf("\n");
    }

    return 0;
}

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>>59341230
>remove all I/O

>>59341236
yet his retarded license introduces a lot of them.

>>59340957
>>59340804
a program with no input and no output would truly be a useless program

>>59341268
how hard is it to follow the spec JESAS

>>59341305
t. riggered

>>59340875
>Assembly Language Succinctly
https://dmytrish.net/lib/asm-x86/Assembly_Language_Succinctly.pdf

>>59341268
too over-engineered/10 it should just have if/else if/etc

>>59341261
>If the data is added at compile time that is literally the same as piping the data into a stdin
The effect it produces is the same. The means to get there are different.
>YOURE USING IO TO GET IT TO THE COMPILER.
What kind of retardation is this? According to you this is somehow I/O

compile : Source -> Program
compile s = f s

where f is a function which somehow manipulates the source code and turns it into the final program.
s might be of type [String] or something. this can only be I/O if there are no ways of obtaining a list of strings without I/O. Which is fucking false.

>>59341272
What's the problem?
>>59341301
>useless
Great buzzword.

>>59341383
if your program doesn't have any output, it doesn't fucking do anything, you're just programming for the sake of programming, it's just mental masturbation

>>59341401
>if your program doesn't have any output
You don't need output to run something.
>it doesn't fucking do anything
2 + 2 isn't doing anything? This is somehow not computing something?
>you're just programming for the sake of programming, it's just mental masturbation
What's that even supposed to mean?

>>59341448
> 2 + 2 isn't doing anything?
If it will do anything, it will output the value.

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>>59341383
>>59341383
How do you get data to the compiler? OS IO.
How do you pipe data into stdin ? OS IO.

Which is simpler?
Compile time: data needs to be recompiled for every new input. Verdict: Absolutely barbaric.
Piped in: Normal unniggered.

The only way I can see this being advantageous is if you are distributing some game with large assets, which, you don't need a new language to handle.

I think you think you are smarter than you really are. You need to take a step back and reevaluate yourself as a person because your ideas clearly are not well thought out.

>>59341448
>You don't need output to run something.
so you want to use your computer as a space heater?
>2 + 2 isn't doing anything? This is somehow not computing something?
the compiler would (should) be allowed to optimize it away
>What's that even supposed to mean?
programming is normally done to solve a problem, to get utility out of the program. you're trying to do some retarded useless shit or you're trolling

>>59341448
OUTPUT IS THE SOLE PURPOSE OF PROGRAMMING.

WHAT THE FUCK AM I READING >>> AAAAHHHHH AAHHHH I CANT TAKE THE RETARDATION PLEASE TERRY TAKE ME TO THE LIGHT

>>59338625
just started java
I hate how we have to write getters and setters for everything.
just 4 variables will have 8 fucking functions of repetitive bullshit
>this.shit = shit;
>return this.shit

I'ts bad too since I use vim and I don't know how to write macros for it

>>59341506
>I'ts bad too since I use vim and I don't know how to write macros for it
q[letter][macro]q
where [letter] is the letter you assign your macro to
and [macro] is the sequence of characters you make yoyr macro of.

>>59340887
Thats way too many lines holy shit.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_of_Eratosthenes

>>59341268
no-serious-coder-will-write-fizzbuzz.jpg / 10

>>59341519
im talking macros like lisp
but I suppose I can kind of achieve what I want with q
how to make it permanent?

>>59341526
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_of_Eratosthenes
You absolute hero, thank you.

>>59338625
>Bad programmers write getters and setters for private variables.
yes, getters and setters shouldn't just haphazardly expose private variables

>Good programmers make variables public.
mutable variables should never be public outside of "internal" code. like if you're sharing variables within your own source files, that might be ok if that works for you, but if you're writing a library or something it should generally not provide direct access to variables.

>>59341506
>I hate how we have to write getters and setters for everything.
You don't have to. Defensive programming is considered best practice for several reasons but you're free to ignore all of them. Hell nothing stops you from having the whole application as a single class, and running all functionality in its constructor.

>>59341463
Not really, it's just a value which holds the result of the function call.

>>59341465
>How do you get data to the compiler? OS IO.
Why do you think that to write 'let hello = "hello"' in my program I need to do some OS I/O?
>How do you pipe data into stdin ? OS IO.
Can you not read? I have explicitly stated on multiple occasions that I don't want to use stdin since that is by definition using I/O.
>Which is simpler?
Not having to deal with the inherent complexities of I/O.
>You need to take a step back and reevaluate yourself as a person because your ideas clearly are not well thought out.
They are pretty well though out, but I wouldn't really call them "ideals".

>>59341478
>so you want to use your computer as a space heater?
How did you get that from what I said?
>the compiler would (should) be allowed to optimize it away
Optimizing away values which will be used later? What sort of retarded compiler does that?
>programming is normally done to solve a problem, to get utility out of the program
Yes, but why do you think this utility is somehow not possible without I/O?
>useless
Could you please stop using this buzzword?

>>59341501
>OUTPUT IS THE SOLE PURPOSE OF PROGRAMMING.
No, computing is.

>>59341580
No problem.

>>59341506
baby steps, anon. getters and setters will make more sense later on.

>>59340763
Yes. There are infinitely many.

>>59341616
I like this post.

>>59341602
Please give an example of a useful program that does not use an I/O

I can't come up with one

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>>59341602

>>59341623
This question is unanswerable. Useful isn't a meaningful word in this context.

>>59341203
>Just for naming array columns
>just for naming _____
I guess so. They add some meaning to the numbers in a simple built-in way and it's easy to add another enum element in the middle of the list. Bool is enum too btw

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>>59338625
t. Fortran

>>59341305
Post your spec.

Stroustrup-sama says that everyone should know at least 5 programming languages.

>>59341647
>able to be used for a practical purpose or in several ways.
Looks like I made it a meaningful word, senpai

do all .equals() have to have an Object paramaeter?

>>59341734
Absolutely any program fits this definition. That's why it's meaningless.

>>59341736
Never ever recommend usage of objects or OOP here.

Oh wait, I know the program which takes no inputs and gives zero outputs.

nop

>>59341758
How is a black box that does nothing with the outside world practical, again?

>>59341794
>write theorem prover
>it's a pure function
TOTALLY USELESS LOL

>>59341781
Pls, its for some faggy class.

>>59341794
It is practical unless you somehow constrain the definition of "useful" and "practical".
also >>59341808

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>>59341602
>>59341602
you have no idea what IO really comprises.

your program will do the samething everytime until you edit code and recompile. editing is OS IO.

it will compute something and never output something. you will never know what it did or if it did it correctly. even early mainframes had blinking lights showing, off for failure, on for success. that is the most basic output.

sound? output. controlling motors via UARTS or GPIOs? output. text? video? vibrations? output. that is all IO.

Saying "a language without IO" is the dumbest thing you can possibly ever say on /g/.

>>59341823
I'm sorry you can't read and understand the definition of useful, anon.

>>59341808
How did the program inform anyone that it proved anything?

>>59341808
you aint proving shit with a blank screen, asshole!

>>59341808
*runs theorem prover*
>no output
really proved that theorem huh

>>59341794
The same question can be asked about vast majority of all code /g/ produces that has input and output.

>>59341849
By evaluating the function applied to an input (typically, the expression to be proven or disproven).

>>59341871
>input
A what anon? That doesn't exist anymore.

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I wanna kill myself.

>>59341894
An argument.

Last week on /dpt/: "C is cancer"

Tonight: "What if no io lol"

>>59341912
Abstract over it, anon.

>>59341871
How does anyone know it has been evaluated?

>>59341830
>editing is OS IO.
You really do have trouble reading. Nowhere in my posts have I claimed to somehow want to get rid of the I/O my OS does.
I just don't want it in my programs or my language. You could probably make an I/O-free OS too but I don't have the skills or patience for that.
>it will compute something and never output something.
So?
>you will never know what it did or if it did it correctly.
Wrong.
>even early mainframes had blinking lights showing, off for failure, on for success.
Why is this fucking relevant? I'm not building a computer, I just want a language which isn't I/O-ridden. That's it.
>sound? output. controlling motors via UARTS or GPIOs? output. text? video? vibrations? output. that is all IO.
You must be trolling at this point. Nowhere have I stated that my language will "control motors" or "output sound". As if a language can even do such a thing.
>>59341849
By that definition anything is useful until you constrain who it applies to. Which you haven't done yet, therefore it's unanswerable.

>>59341916
I don't follow. What's an "argument"? Sounds like this "input" you speak of.

>>59341912
Ok so I have a Clerk extending Person, how do I check if two clerks are equal but by calling the Person equals method to check for the inherited variables
aka
I don't want to write all that shit in the pic and the extra tests for other variables.

>>59341957
An argument, just like in the expression (2 + 3), 2 and 3 are arguments to +.

>>59341871
so you have input to the function and you're evaluating the function's output. way to go with your "language without any I/O"

>>59341978
Alright. But what's the output?

>>59341930
You do when your REPL tells you the result.

>>59341990
>EL
ftfy

>>59341989
There's no output, just the value of the expression when evaluated.

>>59342002
What did you prove?

>>59341952
>Nowhere in my posts have I claimed to somehow want to get rid of the I/O my OS does. I just don't want it in my programs or my language
No problem, I just read the memory dump and edit memory cells through OS tools.
Does it make your program having I/O?

>>59341990
That's side-effects. Checkmate.

>>59342007
The theorem that the prover function was applied to.

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>tfw when finally (possibly) fixed the persistent Heisebug in my code...

>>59342036
How do I know?

>>59342022
It does indeed.

>>59342034
The REPL has side effects, but the theorem prover doesn't.

>>59342037
* Heisenbug

>>59341912
if you're comparing strings you need to do String.equals()

>>59341960
in Clerk, override equals() and call super() to do the Person check and then in the Clerks equals() you do Clerk-specific checks

>>59342022
Why even dump the memory, just

process_vm_read

>>59341912

if (<boolean expression 1>)
  if (<boolean expression 2>)
    return true;
return false;

who not just

return (<boolean expression1>&&<boolean expression2>);

?

Also you only need to typecast it once.

>>59342037
What about the Schrodinger? Did you fix that?

>>59342022
yes, it's convoluted but it's still I/O

>>59342022
>Does it make your program having I/O?
I don't know honestly, on a philosophical level probably yes. But I don't care as long as I can't express anything I/O related in my language and therefore in the resulting program.

>>59342034
The REPL might be written in another language. The theorem prover itself doesn't need to have a single I/O facility.
Also, side-effects aren't I/O, you fucking retard.

>>59342046
How do I retrieve the result of the program then?
>>59342056
I want to go nuts deep.

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>>59342037
nvm, the bug is still there. fuck

>>59342043
Because the theorem prover has been formally verified.

>>59342065
How does the REPL communicate with the language? Through IO.

>>59342065
if you don't have explicit I/O you'll still have implicit I/O because USERS are supposed to do something USEFUL with your program. explicit > implicit. even haskell is more reasonable than what you want to do FUCKTARD

>>59341952
Why not study language theory? There are plenty of I/O free languages there.

>>59342088
Nice circular logic you have going on.

>>59342088
if the result is known at compile time you don't need to run the program. so your program is useless at that point.

>>59342075
>How do I retrieve the result of the program then?
Exactly, that's impossible without side-effects. That's literally the whole point.

>tfw not starting my programming assignments until the day it is due (after deadline was pushed)

fugg this damn life of mine. due in a couple hours and here i am looking up how to do beginner stuff for this non-beginner class

>>59342099
The only circular I have there is my chainsaw

>>59342096
Funny way to spell 'no'.

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archive thread

>>59342094
No. You can't even get a string from stdin in my language. There is no fucking way to do I/O in it without somehow interfering with the running process.
>USEFUL
You're a retard if you think this buzzword is even slightly meaningful here.
>even haskell is more reasonable than what you want to do FUCKTARD
Haskell is I/O-ridden garbage. I'll be so happy when I finally ditch it for a self-hosting compiler.

>>59342096
I just want a general purpose language.
>There are plenty of I/O free languages there.
Examples?

>>59342106
>side-effects
Kill yourself, retard. Nobody was talking about "side-effects". Mutating a global variable from a function isn't fucking I/O.

What the fuck is the point of a private class.

>>59342113
The empty language doesn't have any I/O.

>>59342139
That's like saying that 100% is not complete because complete means "with eggs".

>>59342128
>Mutating a global variable from a function isn't fucking I/O.
This is literally how microcontrollers do I/O

>>59342132
Some sort of data type that's internal (and exclusive) to the public class it's in.

>>59342132
everything should be scoped as narrow as possible. this applies to everything including classes. if you have an inner class that has no use outside of your public class you make it private so people who use your public class won't have to ask themselves what this retarded inner class is supposed to be

>>59342150
The empty language is an element of the set of all languages.

>>59342156
let x = 1;
f n = x = 5; return n + 1;
This is somehow I/O.

>>59342187
Using process_vm_read and process_vm_write I can read and write variable x. It inherits I/O from the IPC stuff from your OS

>>59339263
GPL best license

>>59342187
Complete literally means "with eggs".

>>59342187
If it interacts with the outside world, it's I/O. If your goal is to place a value in a register and read it from another program, that's I/O. Languages without I/O are purely academic, useless without context. Their only use is learning from the concepts it was designed around and for, and later incorporate into a language that can be useful in and of itself.

no io language guy has to be trolling.

the only thing i can think of that is meaningful you can get from a program that has no io is the time spent calculating. there is literally nothing else to be gleaned..

>>59342213
That's fucking I/O you tard!

>>59342213
I wouldn't care as long as my language has no capability of expressing I/O related things. That's my goal, not getting rid of OS I/O.

>>59342274
>If it interacts with the outside world, it's I/O.
It doesn't, therefore it is not I/O.
>useless
Rewrite your post without using buzzwords and maybe then I will respond.

>>59342299
>the only thing i can think of
Yeah, it isn't surprising that someone with your brain wouldn't be able to think of something.

In Java, if a String variable hasn't been set through the setter, will it be ""?

>>59342372
>Yeah, it isn't surprising that someone with your brain wouldn't be able to think of something.
Indeed, he's quite the brainlet.

>>59342395
it will be null, not "". "" is a non-null empty string

>>59342372
3/10. Nice effort but too forceful, and thus too obvious. I remember when I was new at trolling, I made these kinds of mistakes too.

>>59342395
It will be null.

>>59342417
but you can declare it like

private String foo = "";

>>59342420
I thought you were more of a man than this, seems like I was wrong.

>>59342372
>Rewrite your post without using buzzwords and maybe then I will respond.
no one is this autistic. obvious troll is obvious

>>59342443
How do you suppose I should respond to something which is equivalent to a bunch of random characters? That words holds no fucking meaning without additional specifiers about who this usefulness is related to.

>>59339479
Open source is inherently political.

>>59341623
>useful
Stop with the buzzwords.

>>59342372
>Rewrite your post and I'll respond
But you did, and you basically said you have zero point other than being a complete retard.

>>59342454
the best you can do is make the language do I/O implicitly, leaving results in memory, but you'll still have to explicitly specify how to retrieve the output through some other program

OOP = pOOP

new thread
>>59342491
>>59342491
>>59342491

>>59342487
I didn't respond to the rest of it.

>>59342488
You don't have to chose between explicit and implicit if you fully remove I/O. Which is what I want to do.

>>59342498
>Which is what I want to do.
then do it

>>59342498
>Ignores definitions
>Willful ignorance
7/10

>>59342509
Yes, I already am.
>>59342519
Something which has a use is useful. And literally everything which exists has some use. Unless you specify who exactly you're talking about literally every single item is useful.

>>59342571
And if you read the post I wrote, you would see I acknowledge it's use. You're a true idiot. You are like the language you want to make. You don't take input, and when you finish with this project, you'll have nothing to show.

>>59342608
/thread

>>59342608
Something has potentially unlimited amounts of ways you could use it.
>You're a true idiot.
That's interesting. What makes you think so?
>You don't take input
I do. I wouldn't be alive without taking input right now.
>and when you finish with this project
I wouldn't consider this a "project".
>you'll have nothing to show
What are you even on about? Me using the compiler is already enough.

>>59342640
just stop it man, we don't care anymore. you're a retard.

>>59339082
>What happens when you want to log every time the variable gets set?
Then you need to rethink your your plan and realize why that's a fucking retarded idea.

>>59338864
Unlike you, I have a lock screen.
>inb4 my cat somehow enters my password and presses enter