Windows 10 has pretty much been confirmed as the reason why

it's one of many software problems.

Warhammer


Windows 10 - 1080 Ultra DX11:

49.39fps (Min) 57.16fps (Min)

Windows 7 - 1080 Ultra DX11:

62.33fps (Min) 62.00fps (Min)

Retina Display doesn't have this problem

>>59247667
It's like ryzen can even tell which operating systems are good

Pretty interesting if it's true.
Would be nice if some official source like Anand could do some proper testing on this.

>Windows 10
>CCX load balancing
>SMT
>BIOS/fw problems, especially ASUS

AMD has a lot of work ahead of it.

>>59247702
Jesus Christ, that's a 15% min frame loss.

W10 must be shuffling threads unnecessarily, leading to cache evictions.
Fucking MS.

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>reddit face on a minecraft body

please RMA yourself

I have win10, it isn't bad, I prefer linux (and will switch back once my games backlog is done) but it's not worse than any other version of windows

>>59247667
DELET THIS! AMD FUCKED UP THEIR LAUNCH! IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WINDOWS, OR MOTHERBOARD MANUFACTURERS, OR GAME DEVELOPERS! REEEEEEEEEE

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>>59247667

Isn't pic related the best Windows version for gaming?

It gives the best performance.

Is can see how people would prefer the Windows 7 interface, but that's not really important if you only use it to start Steam or games directly.

-BB-BBBUT RYZEN SIN'T SUPPOSED TO WORK IN WINDOWS 7
M-MASAKA!
T-THERE ARE NO DRIVERS

>>59248102
Someone needs to test Ryzen on 8.1

>>59247706
It also doesn't have Ryzen.

>currently installing win10 for the first time
Should I have stuck with 7? Not sure how this'll go. I can always roll back to 7 if it's shit.

No, the reason Ryzen is slower is for gaming is because of the flawed memory subsystem.

Here is the best test on ryzen I read and they have 2 pages about it and explaining why it performs less in gaming tasks.

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/956-22/retour-sous-systeme-memoire.html

It's in French, just use google translate.

>>59248149
>stuck with 7
no. She is getting old now.

>>59248167

>No

Yes

>>59248167
>windows 10

into the trash.

>>59247667
AMD just sucked dick at developing their Windows 10 driver.

Maybe most of their developers are still using Windows 7.

>>59248035
Windows 10 is probably the cause of both the CCX and SMT issue.
For fucks sakes W10 reads Ryzen to have 170MB cache!

>>59248194
Behaviour on windows 10 is just a consequence of this memory subsystem design. This is a very interesting read.

>>59248224
No, it's the double memory controller design.

>>59247667
ONE PERSON with 2113mhz ram. This doesn't confirm anything i will wait for tests by more trustable people especially reviewers.

How easy people forget, X99's launch was filled with bugs and errata, and suddenly everyone's surprised AMD's new platform is buggy on the software side?

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>>59247667
>>59248167
>>59248228

TLDR translation:

L1 bandwidth higher on i7, doesn't explain results.
L2 higher on Ryzen, intel lower latency.
L3 ryzen latency issues, and bandwith to a lesser degree

L3 can have a different latency in function to which core inside a CCX
behavior of this type on the first 4mb and strong increase afterwards

after 8mb, on access of 12mb in a combined L3 cache of 16mb, latency is close than access higher than the 8mb cache of l3

in this case figure the L3 of the second CCX isn't used, Ryzen behaving as if it only had 8mb L3

the other CCX isn't solicited, its cache not filling

W10 likes throwing thread processes from one core to another

the bandwidth between the two CCX is only 22gbs

Bandwidth is weaker than the L3 inside the CCX (at least 175gb/s) and esp. lower than the memory bandwidth

>>59248285
It is a possibility MS patch windows so it has a more adapted behaviour on ryzen platform, or through a driver. But the design can't be patched and they'll have to do a hardware revision to "fix" it.

>>59248285
Why is it doing so good in threaded applications against a 6900k and sometimes a 6950X then? The OS doesn't throw threads over the CCX willy-nilly?

>>59247667
>I-It's because of windows!
Like pottery.

>>59248334
Probably because those applications spawn less threads than a game.

A lot of issues seem to be fixed with a monolithic core complex but I think AMD would lose its fantastic power efficiency for low threaded workloads under certain conditions so I have no idea if that's the best bet.

>>59247667
>b-b-b--bbut people said Windows 10 is good, that there is no issues, ever!
It takes a special kind of retard to use windows 10 a literal downgrade with a lot of issues and privacy invasion, but hey goys will buy up the marketing shit, even when they made it free and tried desperately to shove it down everybodys throats people didn't stop to consider why

>>59248119
seems no drivers is better than microsoft drivers that actively fuck up shit :^)

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>>59248172

>>59248334

more and last TLDR:

>Why is it doing so good in threaded applications

choice to separate integer and floating point which is specific to zen architecture, intel mixes all units on ports (independent lines) without separation.

scheduler dedicated to floating point has 96 entries for a total of 180 entries per core (against 97 for skylake), in practice it's a double scheduler

units of execution 2 FMA 128 bits parallel per cycle, Haswell advantage of two FMA 256 bits per cycle; eventual point where zen arch can be limited.

In summary re mem controller on W10

communication between CCX has a cost, which isn't negligeable depending on the applications

For video endoding for example the effect is close to nil

For others like games, ex. BF1 20% less perf

the memory latency on ryzen is higher than normal possibly because of the design of two independent controllers both linked to the CCX via the data fabric


The only link between the CCX to the data fabric passes all communications, RAM, L3 sync and PCIe. Bandwidth is relatively weak considering need and largely inferior to L3 bandwidth

Technical limitations, the evident solution is to patch the Windows scheduler to limit thread movement from a CCX to another.

Another solution is the arrival of "Game Mode" which limits thread movement

>>59248490
Honestly why are we still letting OSes handle thread scheduling instead of the CPU directly.

>>59248119
haven't seen much about posted about it and I don't really care much since I'm on linux, but ryzen is supported on win7

>http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/am4-chipset-driver.aspx
>Supports Windows 10/7 (64-bit)

>>59248054

>reddit face

the irony, 4chan doesn't seem to remember his former self

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>>59247667
>windows 10 is garbage
We've known that since windows 8

Nothing wrong with Windows 10, it's a great, fast and lean OS

>implying suits that buy multi-socket racks cooled by 200kW+ of cooling care about Windows 10 or gaymer performance

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>>59248688
boy these shillbots are really shit aren't they...

>>59247667
i see no issue here

only dumb cunts use win10, that cpu is ready to roll out

Serves AMD right for only supporting Windows 10 and not Windows 7.

LINUX PERFORMENCE BENCHMARKS WHEN

free driver plox

>>59248762
https://www.servethehome.com/amd-ryzen-7-1700x-linux-benchmarks/

There's Phoronix test too,

And this is on the buggy ASUS with an old BIOS, Gigabyte boards can get up to 20% jumps in certain tests.

>>59248785
>these guys have a fucking XeonPhi and a swath of Dual Xeon setups and can run AWS whenever they feel like it

I hate not being rich.

>>59248785
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43DcdZLZd94

Same guys booting Wangblows and testing Cinnebench under a 256 thread Knight's Landing.
It's a shame most review sites don't test these things, they seem much more interesting than sysmark/passmark and other synthetic nonsense.

>>59248785
>ubuntu 1404
>1404

>>59248915
RHEL, CentOS and SLES don't run bleeding edge, nobody will fucking run non-LTS on a production server.

>>59248172
>she

>>59248915
https://www.servethehome.com/amd-ryzen-7-1700-linux-benchmarks-zen-buy/

Here are the 4.10 results.
Still, nobody will run this on a new kernel, maybe just with backported ISA support

>>59248956
They should do this again because AMD pushed a SMT fix yesterday.


https://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-Ryzen-Newer-Kernel


When will Windows fix it?

>>59248956
The 1700 would be sick value for a custom kernel, it can cTDP down to 35W on 1.9GHz on all cores, imagine running your dnssec/pfsense/NAS on these babies?

>>59248997
>ASUS Prime B350-Plus
>B350
>B

Triggered

>>59248149
Not a good idea looking forward, eventually most new games will run on only on APIs that W7 will not support (or will but at a loss of features) requiring you to upgrade anyway.
Games that support both DX11 and DX12 have shown much better performance at DX12, which probably means this issue is likely specific to DX11 on W10.

>>59248149
For me W10 had major usability and ui improvements and minor compatibility loss on certain exotic hardware that I occasionally use (esata port multiplier has power saving issues for example)
That is, until I wanted to play some JA2v1.13 - turns out neither W10 nor W8 can run it for more than a few hours until it freezes, and even that's only using compatibility tricks in registry and wined3d dlls to run it at all.

>>59249131
>Games that support both DX11 and DX12 have shown much better performance at DX12
Literally the opposite of truth.
Check quantum break for example of this.

> (or will but at a loss of features) requiring you to upgrade anyway.
Except vulkan doesn't require you to use windows 10. But nice try microshill.

>>59248948
>not treating all technology as 'she'
>being this much of a faggot

>>59247667
iPhone 7 Plus doesn't have this problem.

>>59247667
>Gaming
Back to your containment board >>>/lgbt/

>>59249131
A few days ago was looking at DX11 issues on W10 and it was suggested that DX11 is emulated unlike on W7 which has a straightforward driver.

They followed through with microsoft SDK installs to force native DX11 without emulation overheads.

I did some further searching and saw more commentators on DX11 emulation annoyance with W10.

>>59249104
Considering that most of these will be used in ITX setups with X300 chipsets then I don't see the problem testing it with a lowend chipset on a cheap mobo, these things at stock don't need 15 chokes.

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>tfw got into the hype
>it's broken-by-design shit once again

>>59248762
There are already some Ryzen Linux benchmarks including the gaming thing with the use of Linux kernel 4.10:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ryzen-1800x-linux&num=1
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd-ryzen-gaming&num=1
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd-ryzen-1700&num=1
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd-ryzen-cores&num=1
Though in gaming Ryzen has no advantage over an i7 7700k. Newer kernel doesn't improve much:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ryzen-7-Linux-4.11

>hurr durr muh DX12 just wait

>>59249513
>MUH vulkan

WE GOT| RUST GUYZ

We just can't have nice things, can we?

>>59247667
>using any windows version past 7
I'm not even an AMD user, but you must be retarded to use 8 or 10.

>windows 10 is shit
more news at 11

pajeets and gaymers BTFO

>win10 has """smart""" multithreading
>contraproductive
>win7 just werks

Maybe this is also the reason why some older Core2 computers run like dogshit with win10

>>59248708
as first approximation you can assume you'll need as much power in cooling as you have in equipment.
and even 10 kW/rack isn't really achievable unless in some specific conditions.
if you assume redundancy and 2 full rack PDUs on 32A/230V (which would be more or less the same for 63A/110V, i'm not really familiar with murrican electrical installations) sockets you get 7.3 W/rack max.

for comparision full 47U rack in telco r&d environment rarely takes more than 3kW, but all of the equipment is on -48V.

>>59248312
>But the design can't be patched and they'll have to do a hardware revision to "fix" it.
What you're saying is that Windows doesn't utilize it properly, so Instead of having windows change to utilize it, we should have AMD change?

>>59249955
No, what I mean is that it's a design that shows its limits in this windows 10 situation.
Of course MS and AMD can work so windows adapts its behaviour for ryzen. But the design in itself is flawed, ideally it shouldn't be bothered by how windows 10 handles threads. It's a design flaw.

>>59250158

Wow... Lol.

Which is why Linux and Earlier windows visions handled it just fine?

It's not a windows 10 problem, it's a design flaw?

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>>59250158
>ideally it shouldn't be bothered by how windows 10 handles threads. It's a design flaw.
I won't lie, I'm probably reading this incorrectly
but are you calling it a design flaw because it should have been designed around windows 10/take it into account? Or it's just an innate design failure?
Has Jim Keller failed everyone once again?

>>59250218
No, it's because both CCX have to talk through the memory controller for accessing the other CCX cache, which induces latency. AMD could have designed it so it doesn't add latency. Performance on windows 10 is a consequence of this, not a cause.
But AMD and MS will work it out I suppose by decreasing thread roaming, but they'll never be able to fix cache latency because it is flawed by the design itself. The problem will always be there, MS will just make it so there are less thread swaps, which is the condition where latency occur (because of flowed design).

>>59250297
So you're saying there's room to reduce thread swaps?
Wouldn't having excessive thread swaps be a design flaw for Windows?

Thanks for talking with someone whose not really up to speed on the subject.

>>59250363
Of course, thread swap, or just make it so thread are only swapped inside a CCX, not between both CCX.

>Wouldn't having excessive thread swaps be a design flaw for Windows?
Intel CPUs aren't victim of this behavior. MS and AMD will have to do what's basically a fix to circumvent this flaw. In practice it should be globally fixed and it will be transparent for the user.

>>59248622
Intel BabyKake BTFO

>>59250363
>Wouldn't having excessive thread swaps be a design flaw for Windows?
it does it for intel as well, it works fine for intel since it's implemented for intel, for what purpose anyone's guess
linux doesn't swap threads all the time and works fine

>>59250768
>it works fine for intel since hasn't as much cache latency
Fixed.

>>59250877
it happens when software makes you dump x10 times more cache than you actually have

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>>59247667

Random web forums truly the authority on hardware and OS issues.

This is fucking sad, it's getting to ancient aliens levels of retarded conspiracy and "research".


May've those guys can figure out who shot JFK or unlock the power of Yakub and his genetic grafting techniques next.