The more I hear about this language the more I want to learn

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>>59220200
>But I don't want to learn another hipster language, I want to focus on becoming more employable and having access to a large ecosystem of libraries that I can use.
>employable
The trick is not to listen to /g/, in particular in this regard.

It doesn't fullfill one particular criterium of established langs: There isn't another implementation by another group. When in doubt just wait another two years and reevaluate again.

>>59220200
> But I don't want to learn another hipster language, I want to focus on becoming more employable
Then you don't learn Rust but Java or C++ or Scala or something.

>>59220253
> It doesn't fullfill one particular criterium of established langs: There isn't another implementation by another group.
There also isn't any market segment (you know, with companies making actual money off it and having interest in maintaining it) that uses Rust.

It's just a "nope" language same as John's academic prototype demo language, and a fancy logo graphic doesn't change it.

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>>59220294
>There also isn't any market segment (you know, with companies making actual money off it and having interest in maintaining it) that uses Rust.
Right, most companies doing stuff with it are web service companies and hardware producers which is concerning, because its the two kind of companies that ruin software. Beside consulting companies, that is. Also, their reliance on github for cargo.

>It's just a "nope" language same as John's academic prototype demo language, and a fancy logo graphic doesn't change it.
I don't see how Jai is academic and how you could devire anything from a prototype. In fact, it's rather anti-academic, which is good, because most bad programming languages come from academia.

Just get good at c++11/14

>>59220490
This tbqfh. All these meme shitlangs like Rust, Go, etc will fizzle out, while C++ will still be performance king (barring C obviously) in 10 years.

>>59220200
If you want to increase your employability, learn C++, Java, or PHP. C# if you hate yourself and love microsoft.

>>59220200
Not worth learning until better implementations exist.

Compilers and tooling for embedded use are in a shit state.

>>59220200
>Rust
Might as well learn D if you're into useless languages.

>>59220397
Only the index is stored on GitHub, it could easily be moved anywhere.

>>59220200
Rust will make you suffer, much like a C++ would except with Rust you are guaranteed not to have fucked up past compile time.
The rest of the world will be shielded by your noob fuckups and they will know it is true.

Now as for who's using it, mozilla obviously in production but google's also got engineers toying with it on the side. Go's a poo in loo trainer, won't be seeing much of that from google.

>>59221275
>Guaranteed not to have fucked up past compile time
That's factually incorrect, but sure.

>>59220200
OP, you're fucking pathetic. You keep on making these daily Rust threads and always come up with bullshit stories. Seriously, can't you fucking go away and shill that shit somewhere else? No one here gives a fuck about that shit language.

>>59221320
well, okay yeah you can fuck up logically but that's working as intended for idiots.

>>59221275
The compiler hasn't been formally proven, unlike, say, CompCert for C.
The fact that the borrow checker makes leaks impossible hasn't been proven to be mathematically correct either.

>>59221334
Seeing how we get baited into 200+ replies threads from at least 20+ IPs each time I'd say people give fucks about his shit language. Not for the reasons he'd like but still.

>>59221356
Which is a major failure point, and that's checked by static analyzers in languages with adequate expressiveness to instruct the analyzer.

That's the problem with rust. High integrity software is run through analyzers, which do more than a compiler can do. Why use rust at that point?

>>59220200
>But I don't want to learn another hipster language,
Hipsters like to cling to old trash like C

>>59221487
Do you even know how borrow checker and lifetime works? It's not the compiler that checks for all the safety, Rust codes are just written more safe.

>>59221676
For 'memory' errors. What about the rest?

>>59221715
And it prevents dangling pointers and out of bound errors. Once an object is borrowed you can never point to the borrowed object/memory block unless the new owner returns it.

>>59221745
Those are memory errors. How do you verify your data structure is being manipulated properly? Did the intern write the function properly to return the specified output? Is the output dependant only on the input, or maybe a global? Etc.

>>59221787
Variables are immutable by default. Specified output type can be defined in any language which is not a big deal. Rust is good at preventing you from accidentally pointing at the wrong memory block.

>>59221827
The output type isn't in question, how it was computed is. I'm just pointing out I have not seen anyone address these few, extremely important questions and I frankly don't believe they exist in rust in its current form.

>>59221097
Oh well, only the first thing, then.

>>59221903
Yeah and most of the more powerful features are in the nightly branch for testing/stabilization anyway.

It's an immature language which has a retarded amount of power and safety available even now, just needs some year or two to polish it up.

it is unironically close to dead

>>59221960
But if the analyzer with catch what rust does and more, why would anyone use rust?

>muh memory leaks: a retard's guide to arguing against C

>>59222038
There are analyzers for Rust as well

>>59222006
Rust's taking off pretty good, its all over conventions and shit and the ecosystem is growing fast as fuck.

>>59222038
Analysis can't catch everything, especially when it comes to concurrent things which is what rust (and even go) were really designed to step up on. Big backend server products and browsers with a shitload of network connections everywhere.

Besides, rust has the safety built in and the more idiomatic your safety is the better your entire community/ecosystem will be.
>write perfect code but link to a 3rd party library and everything fucks up

>>59222066
>If you leak memory you are too retarded for C
xD

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>>59222038
>>59222067
>>59222072
these, it's better not a PVSStudio shill again

>>59222076
correct. if you are writing something that needs to be memory safe and you are too retarded to be able to safely write it in C, you shouldn't even be writing something that is memory safe then.

>>59222121
Oh sorry. It's just that people that made silly mistakes (like Linus) is not as (((expert))) C kernel haxxor such as yourself, anon.

>>59222121
And the 'too retarded' is scaling with how dangerous and reckless your language tools are.

'good enough' in C is a much higher bar than 'not quite retarded' in rust.

>>59222155
>experts never make mistakes! it's the languages fault!

>>59222181
Everyone makes mistakes, the language design should protect you from simple calculable mistakes which create massive problems.

>>59222181
Seeing how Rust prevents 99% of those mistakes, yes it is C's fault. C was built with 80's computing model in mind.
Things were simple back then, people didn't have to worry about concurrency, memory safety, resource utilization and programs were not complex. Software industry grew and adopted C++ over C by the time.
C is perfect for hobbyists whereas C++ is just meant for complex tasks. Rust is the new and improved C++

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>>59222163
It doesn't help that most C code out there is obviously written by projecting retards like >>59222121 .

Whenever I search C libraries I already know I can just throw away 90% because they reimplement dynamic arrays in a poor way. And after that filter out 50% that aren't thread-safe/multi-instanceable, because some idiot thought it would be a good idea to store some things globally in the compilation unit for some shit function to call.

>>59221356
>well, okay yeah you can fuck up logically but that's working as intended for idiots.
So it's the same as C, Java, or literally any other language. Good to know it has nothing to offer.

>>59222303
>multiple safety features in design
>works as intended
>it doesn't write my code for me, just the same as all the other languages

It is not a poo enabler.

>>59222253
well put, anon

You know your language is dead when your last way to save it is constant shilling on /g/.

>>59222239
>>59222253
we've already established that rust is better for beginners. no beginner is going to be writing system programs where memory leak is actually important anyway. there are trade offs for it being a difficult language that give it the advantage over rust
>Rust is the new and improved C++
kek, that's why it is all but dying right?

>>59222076
>Misplacing hammers and nails and sending workers to job sites that don't exist doesn't make you a bad foreman! Your job is just set up wrong! You're a beautiful snowflake girl (boy) and all these "mistakes" are really just the oppressive construction patriarchy keeping you from succeeding!
Rust supporters in a nutshell.

>>59220200
>I want to focus on becoming more employable and having access to a large ecosystem of libraries that I can use
Rust is a bad bet for this right now. If you want an "advanced" programming language you can find a job writing, try modern C++, Scala, Clojure or F#.

>>59222402
>>Rust is the new and improved C++
>kek, that's why it is all but dying right?
Even if it was true your claim does not prove a language is "bad" because it's dying.

OpenBSD is better than Linux, Linux is better than Windows and yet see which ones are more popular

>>59222402
Memory leaks are bad in all software, anon. Being able to trust other people not to leak memory is also important. It's not even that much harder than a C++ but with none of the drawbacks and a ton of features that even C++ couldn't manage (because of it's C compliance)

It's nothing close to dying, just too early to be in full time production everywhere. They've already got an operating system though.

>>59222408
see >>59222155
lord __xX-09haxxor-90-Xx__ C hacker master

>>59222446
>OpenBSD is better than Linux
And C users are the NSA agents...

>>59222524
OpenBSD is better. Linux never cared about security, he never will. And so he's going to keep using exploitlang C forever.

He's a good programmer, I wonder where Linux ill be headed to in his absence :^)

>>59222446
>Even if it was true
>being this in denial
>>59222457
>Memory leaks are bad in all software, anon
obviously more important in some places more than others.
>It's not even that much harder than a C++ but with none of the drawbacks and a ton of features that even C++ couldn't manage (because of it's C compliance)
WOW, I wonder why they don't just write drivers and bootloaders all in rust and C++?!?
>It's nothing close to dying, just too early to be in full time production everywhere
kek, it is definitely on the decline, not the rise you deluded cunt.
>They've already got an operating system though.
partially written in C, kek

>>59222468
That doesn't make C a bad language, it just makes Linus human.

>>59222468
literally no one in this thread has claimed nor implied they are masters at C

>>59222561
looks like you are trying hard to defend something anon

>>59222583
>>59222572
>"If you make bugs in C you are retarded :D"

>>59222584
>Rust shills posts daily threads about how C/Go are shit
>"You know what? Let's try to reverse the roles."

>>59222584
it really isn't hard to defend C. rust on the other hand...

>>59222572
So replace the parts that they can fuck up unintentionally with computers.

>>59222561
Drivers and bootloaders can be written in anything, they do.

Definitely on the rise, but it has more competition than it had a year or two ago.

>>59222618
>Drivers and bootloaders can be written in anything, they do.
never have seen any driver that is even remotely relevent written in entirely C++, let alone rust
>Definitely on the rise, but it has more competition than it had a year or two ago.
keep deluding yourself into thinking it is more than just another C replacement that is fading into obscurity

>>59222614
It's easy to defend C, pretend you are an idiot

>>59222660

BPA2 driver for ST Cannes2 SoC that powers some Set top boxes is programmed in C++.
You may not believe me as driver is closed source.

Rust puts safe, precise memory management front and center of everything. Unfortunately, that's seldom the problem domain, which means a large fraction of the thinking and coding are dedicated to essentially a clerical job (which GC languages actually automate out of sight). Safe, deterministic memory reclamation is a hard problem, but is not the only problem or even the most important problem in a program. Therefore Rust ends up expending a disproportionately large language design real estate on this one matter. It will be interesting to see how Rust starts bulking up other aspects of the language; the only solution is to grow the language, but then the question remains whether abstraction can help the pesky necessity to deal with resources at all levels. That is why it will never replace C

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>>59222660

>>59222705
no, I don't believe it was written entirely in C++ and there is no way of confirming it so that was pointless

>>59222750

Sorry I mistook it for havana2 driver.
And after a second glance you can check for yourself.

https://github.com/canalplus/r7oss/tree/master/G6/src/havana2-sources-15.2.1.050.25.12.5_p1/player/buffer

>>59220200
The Programmer's Curse:

>beautiful language
>employable
Pick one.

>>59222777
I'm sorry but rust has some of the most disgusting syntax ever, how is it beautiful?

>>59222777
witnessed and well put

>>59222725
This exactly. Rust is not supposed to be used for everything because it's not a very productive language. It's designed to be used for low-level or backbone systems - the kind of stuff that a company develops once and then uses it for decades.

>>59222807
let x = 32;
fn main(args) -> return_types
for i in 1,10

just makes more sense

>>59222759
not particularly relevant but alright, and one for rust?

>>59222777
>>59222807
*pick at most one

>>59222827
looks close to actual maths

>>59222777
Trips of Truth.

>>59222777
Checked

>>59222777
OCaml fits both.

>>59222843
Never seen once in Rust, sorry.
I see nothing preventing it from happening, though. As long as you keep jemalloc out of the compilation and compile with nostd, of course.

You tell me "not particularly relevant", but this driver is included in all french Canal plus pay-tv decoders.

>>59222812
Not quite. Rust is safe but far from fast. The fact that there is no strict description of Rust's semantics nor even a memory model makes it especially bad for low level systems. And don't get me started on smart pointers

>>59222953
Changing allocators is still stuck in nightly isn't it?
>Unstable rust is not rust yet

>>59220200
>I want to focus on becoming more employable and having access to a large ecosystem of libraries that I can use
learn modern c++

>>59222777
>beautiful language
>employable
Python.

>>59222038
>Ask legitimate, important questions
>They get swept under the rug
Stay good, /g/

>>59223247
>indentation for blocks
absolutely disgusting

>>59223288
>babyduck syndrome
laughable

>>59223037
It's still the case in the current version.
I see it at a major show stopper for doing kernel related stuff and hope it will be soon in stable.

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>>59220200
>rust
>systems language
FUCKING STOP

>>59222827
let keyword is retarded
fn identifier is retarded
arrow operator to denote return type is retarded
the range-based iteration is alright but syntax is ambiguous

>>59220200
Learn it. It doesn't take a day. If you don't like it, then don't use it. Simple. Efficient. Meme-free.

>>59224620
I agree with the opposite of that.
t. OCaml programmer master race
(Rust is still shit though)

>>59220877
Then how come rust is literally already faster than C? See ripgrep, leaf, colenchyma, xml parser.

>>59224716
because C cucks are often terrible at C while dismissing non-C languages as trash

>>59225148
Rust can and will eventually be faster than C++ and even C.

Rust has a better type system, the compiler can make stronger optimizations.

>>59220877
Rust is already faster than C++

>language made to fix mistakes of C
>hurr durr le shit language xdddd

>>59224716
Speed won't make it adoptable.
The syntax is abhorrent and it doesnt have anywhere near the same library diversity, it'll be used by startups and that's about it.

Liking a language is understanding its flaws and not defending them. This is this concept that used to make 4chan so good, too: people on their respective boards would never stoop so low as to defend flaws blindly (with exceptions which were quickly culled). Just like ctards ITT, modern 4chan users are the opposite of that. They think that if you don't like everything, including the flaws, you're just pretending to like something. How exactly, I ask, can you say you like something if you are doing your best to ensure it can only ever become worse?

>>59225626
The syntax is really amazing, it just has another dimension of concepts that must exist.

It also has a strong interface to other languages AND a means to wrap unsafe C objects in safe rust code.

>>59225626
Its syntax is at worst as bad as C's and at best about 2 orders of magnitude better. It already has more library diversity AND quality than the likes of haskell. Checkmate.

>>59225647
>The syntax is really amazing

pub fn parse_data(data: &[u8], opt: &ParseOptions) -> Result<Document, svgdom::Error> {
    Document::from_data_with_opt(data, opt)
}

No, it looks like recycled dog shit.

>>59225688
Thats perfectly fine, it describes what is happening very clearly. That example doesn't even have complicated lifetime stuff on it. also the macros are super good.

>>59225657
>Its syntax is at worst as bad as C's and at best about 2 orders of magnitude better.

what

C has amazing syntax - couldn't really be much clearer. Rust on the other hand looks horrendous and has needless obfuscatory syntax.

Reminder that everyone who posted in this thread got baited.

>>59220200
>two fucking rust shill threads on the board
Slow day at Jewgle anon?

>>59225724
It looks worse than Perl you sperglord, cramming more and more symbols into a languages syntax doesn't make it more readable.

>>59225930
>more and more symbols

>>59225930
It doesn't make it more readable, but you literally NEED something in the syntax to describe new concepts that old clunky C never will have.

The symbols in that example are used sparsely and have incredibly common meanings. They don't originate in Rust. There is complicated syntax in Rust but that isn't it.

OP here. Didn't expect a thread with 100+ replies. Mostly felt like venting as I was learning C++ after having spent some time with Haskell / ML family languages. Whenever I need to use a switch case, I miss pattern matching.

>>59225688
Does rust use < and > both as brackets for type parameters and as comparators?

>>59226109
template and lifetime parameters, not function parameters. but yeah and whatever other operator you want to overload too.

>>59225795
My fucking sides! NSA please, if you keep blowing people's sides, doesn't that make you the terrorist?

>>59225626
>this super fast language is only used by startups

that's actually the best reason to learn it tho

>>59222777
I picked both, C++ has paid my bills for ten years now

>non-free
Not even an option desu.

>>59226657
What do you do? I'd love physics programming for game engines/simulation software (I have the math background) but I'm not sure it's actually that open of a field. Uses Cpp extensively though.

>>59222827
trivial shit looks ok in every language

rust starts looking awful when you're boxing and borrowing shit all over the place

>>59226691
video software and some sysinternals style shit

C++ was pretty much the only option at the time though I grew up with Delphi and worked in that for a few years beforehand (and 'defected' to C++ mostly because I needed to do a lot more low-level shit with pointers which is awkward in Pascal)

>>59226690
>language
>freedom
lol

>>59226690
cargo is MIT and Apache licensed, what are you talking about?

>>59227640
open != free

>>59227714
MIT license is free as in freedom, or am I missing something here?

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Rust is shit, submit a proper spec and let's see some 3rd party compilers before anybody jumps on this kike scheme.

>>59227939
>not 10 years old yet
>still ahead of C in developing its language spec

>>59220200
>systems language
Rust is a web language, garbage collection has no place in systems programming, also I hate the := operator and anything that uses it needs to die in a fire.

>>59228202
>rust has garbage collection
I love this meme, say it again!

Learn go and stop posting about an even more cucked ecosystem made by kiddies that can make a complex language but are afraid to write a garbage collector because it's a harder task.

>>59228377
See >>59228202
Hint: the := operator does not exist in rust.

>>59222253
If you want to program for the most advanced Kernel in modern times, you have to learn pure C.
It's definitely not a hobbyist's language.

>>59228823
pure rust*
FTFY

>>59227954
>ahead of C in developing its language spec
what's this even mean, c has been nailed down for decades

>>59228986
It's technobabble. The Rust Evangelism Strikeforce doesn't actually use the language. They get nervous when you call them on their bullshit, and they start just making shit up.

>>59229021
let's talk about how Ada is basically a better rust which actually has a spec

>>59228986
>>59229021
I mean C was a language for 10+ years before it had a design spec. Rust has been a language for less time and is relatively mature.

>>59229061
>relatively mature
it's only mature when there's a spec and multiple compilers maintained by different organizations

>>59229074
then C wasn't mature til the 90s

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>rust
>not used anywhere for anything except shitposting
>in beta-testing phase
>fucking llvm shit
>developed by a bunch of fagets
>forced by sjw dying company
>the only thing keeping it afloat is mozello paying everyone for endorsements

>C
>used everywhere by everyone
>developed by epic gods
>entry barrier to keep retards away
>i can dive and hack on every important project there is
>until the end of times

why would anyone use Roost is beyond me
you roosters are amazing bunch of shits really

>>59229089
C had a formal standardized spec, numerous implementations across a variety of platforms, and rapidly increasing popularity in the 80's, you piece of shit.

Rust has transvestites shitposting on/g/ for attention.

>>59225833
Google is Go you fucking idiot.

Rust is Mozilla.

>>59229217
>Rust 1.0 almost 2 years old
>Used by mozilla and redox
>known by engineers and developers far and wide

>>59229231
First spec was in the late 80s, yeah but the implementations that did exist were not all according to that spec.

>>59229238
the nonpajeets at google like rust too.

>>59229260
>1.0 almost 2 years old
But you still can't concatenate two strings?
I don't think Mozilla knows what version numbers mean.

>>59229275
tell me about C's string library, good sir. Also do you mean string literal or String?

>>59229285
>tell me about C's string library, good sir.
How C does things is no excuse for Rust being shit.
>Also do you mean string literal or String?
Those should not be different. Strings are strings.

C toddlers BTFO

>>59229275
>concat!("hello ", "world");
>doesn't exist
huh......

>>59229285
>C(ancer)
>String
lmao

>>59229260
>Used by mozilla and redox
>redox not used by anyone for anything
>mozilla firefox market only 12% left and continue to decline
don't fool yourself mate

what about swift?

>>59229487
Deserves nothing but a swift death.

>>59229359
How many lines of code does it take you to implement that in Rust? It took me 10 lines of C to make a concat function that concatenates any two strings of any length.

>>59229798
y tho

>>59229798
I'll bet you ten bucks that with the right (wrong) inputs I can make your 10 line C function buffer overflow.

>>59229487
Still not easy to get working on non-Ubuntu Linux and no Windows support. Besides, it's a language with reference counting, so it competes with Go, OCaml, etc., not Rust.

Rust is 20% faster than optimized C at k-nucleotide.
Not to mention the Rust code looks a hundred times nicer than the C implementation.

http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/performance.php?test=knucleotide

What's the defense on this one?

>>59233260
kek

https://dennisforbes.ca/index.php/2017/03/03/rust-faster-than-c-not-so-fast/

>>59233260
>What's the defense on this one?
Not much. Problem is, the language is hard for novice programmers (99.99% of /g/)

>>59233260
Those benchmarks are rigged you idiot. If one guy who doesn't know C can figure out how to improve the results by not following the rules, obviously the rules are designed with a bias towards Rust.

>>59233661
le rigged xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDd

>>59233661
Sureley you seem to know C and the rules
Why don't you give your code to them, they are open for any improvements :^)

>mfw another C toddler bites the dust

>>59233677
>https://dennisforbes.ca/index.php/2017/03/03/rust-faster-than-c-not-so-fast/
should have read the link before you shitpost, rooster

>>59229798
1 line. the line I wrote. Inbred.

>>59233260
Rust & C++ you mean (LLVM is written in C++)

>>59235537
Please be inbred somewhere else, like on /x/.