Web bloat

no wonder ram usage is so high

Is 8kb an acceptable size for a blog web page? Like the home page.

There's nothing that can be done.

We can only hope that since computers don't follow Moore's law anymore and their performance isn't growing by a massive amount every year this trend won't progress beyond what we actually have right now.


I dream about web-dev hipsters forcing a replacament trend when they'll all brag with how little html5+/css they could create a functioning website. But that's just wishful thinking and even if such thing would actually happened there's no fucking way the "big guys" would follow

>>59150546
8kb is 8000 characters in plain english.
I think it's okay.

The "web bloat" doesn't exist, YOU are the problem. Replace your old laptops from early 2000s and get a 1 gbits connection.

>>59150642

It is bloated though. Why do sites however shit and useless they are like Facebook and The Verge need a 6950X and 32 GB RAM to not stutter?

Hopefully something will bring about people caring about being light weight and highly optimized.

>>59150642
Gulag

>>59150642
>le throw more hardware at it
epic, truly epic

>>59150642
>there is nothing wrong with raping mother earth so i can have twice the pixels in my animes and C U S T O M F O N T S

>>59150493
Decent compressed on imagen.
Rational use of JavaScript Frameworks.
Avoid create webapp unless begin extremely necessary.

I know JS and websocket heavy websites that are fast as fuck, it's just a problem of incompetent programmers

Its called apps

"The death of flash was supposed to mean an end to the madness, but it seems that it was in fact the beginning."

A good quote from 4chan? Never have i ever

I fucking hate this. Even websites about minimalism are heavy...

>>59150642
>Replace your old laptops from early 2000s and get a 1 gbits connection.
That just encourages even more web bloat.

>>59150493
HTML5+CSS3+JS compilers. All code is executed as root for performance reasons, but it's digitally signed by Google so viruses won't be a problem. You think web bloat is bad NOW? It hasn't even begun.

File: 1487894271054.jpg (7KB, 220x147px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 220x147px

>>59150850
>>59151128
>>59151203

Is there any utility that can cut out extra bloat from webpages, like how AdBlock cuts out ads?

ie: webpage minimizer?

Idk how realistic this is but I swear something is going to have to give with the way things are going. The current pajeet/ normie webdev revolution is inevitably going to compound the problem.

Also:
>Google fucking chrome resource usage

>>59151289
>digitally signed by Google so viruses won't be a problem
But botnet will be

>>59151367
You can block some cosmetic features using ublock origin. This ends up saving a small bit for sure. I don't know anything else you could use but it's a helluva start at least

>>59151367
Most of the webpage (the Javascript) is already minimized.

>>59151367
You can use a text only browser like links2 on gnu/linux

>2010
>you had 16mbit internet

>2015
>you have 100mbit internet

the real wtf is
>2010
>google chrome uses 100mb ram, 200mb for 5 tabs

>2015
>google chrome uses 0.5gb ram, 1gb for 5 tabs

>>59151447
this
on sites you regularly visit, like FB or news, use ublock to just remove html elements. Like you are reading an article and on the side there are 10 blocks of links to their other articles, or videos or whatever just block it. It's great

>>59151475
Web developers weren't THIS retarded back in 2010.

>>59150493
Emphasize minimalism. Stop using frameworks you don't need, stop using huge photography to get around actual design and stop throwing in needless fluff like sliders because your webpage is "empty", try to creatively use whitepsace instead.

There's the designers and developers that think they NEED Bootstrap/Pure/Foundation/jQuery/Dojo/XYZScript but on the other hand, there's idiotic clients that feel that minimalism = not finished/empty and specifically demand shitty fluff like the aforementioned slider.

You can't really win.

>>59151475

That's because chrome pre caches pages

>>59150642

/thread

>>59151535
>Bootstrap/Pure/Foundation/jQuery/Dojo/XYZScript
visual frameworks need to go, there is really no reason for jQuery to exist now that we have cc3 and html5. I really doubt any website needs more interactivity than that.

The average page of my website seems to be about 500kb. But it still takes two seconds to load. More than 20% of the loadtime is spend waiting on Google stuff.

>>59150642
most websites don't even offer speeds that fast

>>59150493
web """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""developers""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

>>59150493
The past due death of Javascript.

>>59151610
THEN STOP USING GOOGLE BOTNET

>>59150493
The addition of WebGL was a sign of the end times of the old way of looking at websites. People are writing 3D game engines in fucking Javascript. There is nothing to be done. Websites are now applications. There is no way to reverse this. We need to give in, buy fast hardware and good connections, and move on with our lives.

Alternatively, move to Tibet. It's quite cold and you'll be expected to set yourself on fire occasionally, but you probably won't have to worry about website file sizes.

>>59151630
>week 1: complete codecademy ruby course
>week 2: complete codecademy ruby on rails course
>week 3: "hey guys I made this startup, it's like twitter but for vegetarians"

>>59151643
>tfw no good 2D JS game engine

>>59150828
the thing about image compression is that while they reduce the amount of data needed to transfer the image to your computer, they don't reduce the viewing memory needed, as ultimately it needs to be decompressed to view it

that is, a 100k jpeg of a 3000x2000 photo will take up 17MiB ram, because that's how big the raw (decompressed) data is

>>59151798
what's up with that btw? I see people do the most amazing things with JS but no game engine?

>>59150642
Get a tripcode

>>59152019
There's Superpowers which I actually just found and Sphere which you can find at spheredev.org

>TypeScript
And of course.

Sphere is a bit fragmented, could use more documentation and always seemed a bit all over the place development-wise but it's the only one I know of. of.

>>59150493
How are you meant to argue against people who say that bloated webpages aren't an issue when modern computers and internet connections can handle it? Because while that is true, saying that just because they can be bloated doesn't mean they should is a pretty lukewarm argument against it.

rewrite our understanding of the web from an image on a screen to a bunch of ideas; data and facts.
The display would be left to the browser; and not sent across the internet every damn time.

Get rid of Arial, as a matter of fact just make Times New Roman the only font you can use on the inter webs.

>>59152072
Why?

>>59152185
so he can block you reliably

Adblocking helps reduce the bloat :-)

>>59152197
*so he can retreat to his safe space
;-)

I don't understand where the problem is.
Most complaints in this thread are addressed to shitty coding.

>>59152115
That is the original vision of the www

>>59152197
He should just stop browsing 4chan if he's so easily trigger.

>>59150493
>mfw in 2007/8 i naive enough to think that content quality will only go up

>mfw i was fascinated by win98 era of ezines and thought it would be cool if more sites would follow this way of delivering text

>>59151003
le download our ad-supported app that needs permissions for GPS/contacts/storage/internet/and sending texts

>>59152111
Many people have datacaps. I have a few customers that insist on using 3G/4G. You have those with datacaps on landlines too, but I don't know how high those caps are in countries where they are relevant.

Many people buy cheap and slow laptops and tablets that don't have enough resources to manage heavier websites. Even my i5 4690 with 16GB RAM struggles on some sites. People who bought the cheapest laptop that has a Pentium N3540 and 2-4GB RAM running the full version of Windows 10 isn't going to have a good time visiting your site if you make it too heavy.

Personally, I don't think there is much reason to include huge pictures and scripts to make a good site. You can get far with some creative use of css.

>>59152464
>Even my i5 4690 with 16GB RAM struggles on some sites.
Post them.

>>59152497
You think I care enough to remember which exact site when they're so poorly made they don't work well on an almost 3 year old mid range desktop?

I don't revisit slow shitty sites, so I don't remember their names. Same reason why I don't remember why I didn't like the software I tried to use last month. I stuck with the one I thought sucked the least, and forgot the rest.

It's mostly bigger (but still shady) commercial sites overloaded with ads, and some blogs with infinite scrolling and a lot of javascript that eat up cpu cycles and memory.

>>59150493
It's simple, we kill the ad man.

>>59152624
he's a bit of a zombie though, tends to come back long after you thought you cleft his cerebrum in twain.

>>59152597
>reddit spacing
>not a single fact to back his bullshit
I'm not even going to bother to tell you where you should go back.

>>59152750
Maybe marxism-lenninism is the solution

>>59152771
Not sure what reddit spacing is.

I'll keep a notebook handy for the next time I find sites that struggle on current computers. Have to make sure I can prove every single statement.

You didn't exactly prove that all websites are light weight either, that all websites works great on current systems. You're also the first one to resort to insults.

>>59152185
>why
The newness on this board is terrifying

>>59152901
Try leaving.

>>59152872
Reddit spacing is when you make a new line after every one or two sentences. People will throw the term around no matter how a post is formatted if they don't like the contents of said post though. So basically it boils down to the meme that is "if I don't like what you said then clearly you're from a different website" which barely makes sense in the first place but here we are. What's a little bizarre is that people have used this style of formatting for a long, long time, and it has nothing to do with Reddit or any other website.

>>59152872
>You didn't exactly prove that all websites are light weight either
Because I didn't make such claim to begin with.

>>59152901
Even if he does get a tripcode, he can easily post without it whenever. He can change tripcodes at any time too. The suggestion was fucking stupid and pointless.

>>59152966
If you call bullshit on my claim that some websites are heavier than some current computers can handle, it's logical to assume that you believe no sites are too heavy for current computers.

What is the lightest site you know?

>>59153249
https://stallman.org/

>>59150493
Why is software 100mb now instead of 1mb back in the days? Times change with hardware and so does the software with it. Get over it. If you're complaining because your data is limited then you only have yourself to blame americans.

>>59150620
Hipsters ARE creating this though.
They love to brag about "minimal material design". They think it's minimal.
Perhaps we should red pill them on barebone websites like motherfuckingwebsite.com

>>59153274
100mb software is unforgivable if it has the same functionality as 1mb soft has.

>>59153268
[spoiler]install gentoo

>>59150493
we need to stop using hipster frameworks
trying to write our own stuff
we will be amazed how good it can be

http://jgthms.com/web-design-in-4-minutes/

>>59150493
Use webpack. Problem solved.

Let's start with our own backyard.

How do we de-bloat 4chan?

>>59153268
I so check stallman.org every week for political updates, it is a well designed web site.

Remove surveillance capitalism

>>59150493
>What do you suggest?
I suggest you kill yourself, you fucking retard.

>What is to be done about the growing problem of web bloat?
Stop using shit sites.

>The death of flash
Hasn't happened yet, shit for brains.

>>59153274
Netscape back in the day only were around a few mb, chrome today is around 180-200mb when it's installed on your system. As i said, hardware gets better and the software moves with it to utilize it. It won't shrink in size because of it.

>>59153524
I use leynucks with firefox. No flash. I use chrome maybe two times a year for the rare site that needs flash.

>>59150620
Moore's law is about CPU transistors, /v/irgin. Not CPU performance.

>>59153532
>>59153344

Whoops cited my self

>>59153459
Start by removing the unnecessary javascript.
Ban weebm files.
Replace google captcha with an in-house version.

1) Learn how to bundle assets correctly. Webpack/Rollup. Use them.
2) Always server-side render.
3) Dynamic imports.
4) Don't rely on JavaScript being enabled. Always have graceful fallbacks in place.
5) Never use `import * as Whatever from 'somehere'`

All my side projects only send one JS file and one CSS file over the wire. The beefiest server I got is sending a 346kb JS file and a 5.6kb CSS file. While critical assets are inlined and everything is rendered server-side. This is a full Redux/React/RxJS application.

If you're new to Above-the-Fold rendering/critical inlining/bunding/SEO with modern web frameworks look at the Electrode project. It comes packed with a lot of niceties for the beginner.

If you're using Angular stop. If you have to use Angular Server-side render.

If you're using React consider Preact/Inferno. These can be drop in replacements with only a minor change to your Webpack/Rollup build config.

If you're using ember stop.

>>59153582
6) Code splitting. Require.ensure. Figure it out.

>>59153570
webms are less bloated than gif. And website wise it doesn't matter what is served anyways.

>>59153570
Webm is far better than gif.

>>59153524
7.0% of public web sites use flash.

Down from over 50%

File: 1438832905986.png (343KB, 512x746px) Image search: [Google]

343KB, 512x746px

Just to double-check, electron/nodejs desktop applications are bloated shit that break UI and spy on you, right?

>>59153644
>>59153651
Uploading a video format to an imageboard seems pretty lame to me.

Keep gifs, but limit them to fewer than 30 frames in total or something.

>>59153680
Not most, just like most things dipshit.

>>59153894
Right, but it's inherently bloated because it has to run its javascript bs and it breaks UI because it has its own CSS. So you're wrong...

>>59153919
Most electron apps use local OS UI libraries just like traditional cross platform desktop applications. Go download a few. Electron apps tend to be less responsive is the only real neg I've experienced (Atom for example).

File: Screen Shot 2017-02-27 at 3.08.59 PM.png (186KB, 327x328px) Image search: [Google]

186KB, 327x328px

>>59150493
>web devs in a labor camp

I can get on board with this. We need to separate out real coders who were forced to do web dev though. I suggest a problem solving quiz in C. If you pass, you're OK. If you do not, labor camp.

>pic related: labor camp

>>59154243
Is that guy named "Lara"? Ha, what a faggot.

>>59154243
No, you should not have accepted the work and left them bootstrap user.

>>59150493
I feel like a schmuck because I'm finally upgrading my processor from a Core 2 to Ryzen just to make web browsing faster. That was the thing that finally made me upgrade, not games. I can accept not playing games, but modern web sites taking an extra 10 seconds to become responsive is driving me up the wall.

>>59154465
:)

>>59150493

all thanks to javascript libraries just for a simple fade in effect on some popup and dynamic cuntent.

>>59155099
>cuntent
mistake or not i like this word

>>59150620
it's retarded hipsters that load 20 javascript frameworks in order to use one function from one of them that makes their links change colour when you hover them

>>59155354

well it's not just hipsters, it's just that one retard on stackoverflow saying "just use jquery" and getting upvoted because his "solution" works.

barely anyone even cares to write a clean, fast, problem-specific solution anymore.

File: 1479774818560.png (2MB, 1600x6283px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1600x6283px

>>59150493
Webdevs are this retarded.

>>59155461
>it's just that one retard on stackoverflow saying "just use jquery" and getting upvoted because his "solution" works.

This happened to me once.

I don't like the idea of using third party libraries without knowing how it works so I got the uncompressed jqueery file and followed the function call chain down the retard hole. It turned out that entire jqueery library was being used for a single line of javascript less than 50 characters long.

I stopped using jqueery that day and will never use it again. I also started calling it jqueery because it's retarded shit used by retarded faggots.

>>59155616
Wow

>be graphics designer
>get hired to do preprint
>end up doing everything from preprint to sysadmin shit
>company goes down the shitter
>boss asks me why the "competition"'s (like, 30x size, 100x revenue) website loads so much faster than ours
>show him their source vs ours
>tightly packed html with a small custom javascript library (not even googlolytics) vs a huge mess provided by an 6 years oudated oscommerce shop with css written into every second tag by some idiots and 4 (four!) fuckhuge js libraries that are barely used 5-10 times across the 200k+ page site
>tell him if I were to clean this shit up properly it would take me a year
>he doesn't believe me and says their servers are just 10 times more powerful or some shit
>try to explain how the internet works
>get reassigned to make software for the workers
>make software that replaces workers
>get fired for "wasting time" after i spend 4 months making a migration utility to upgrade everything at once

time == money != clean code

>>59155905
Lol

>>59150642
t. webdev who is too stupid to optimize anything

>>59150642
>Loads 1MB Js file
>Loads 14 MB autoloading MP4
>Loads js that loads js
>Loads custom font
>Calls a gorillion Async requests
>Loads Bootstrap

http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/
http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com/
https://thebestmotherfucking.website/
http://vanilla-js.com/

fuck anyone who argues against this for unironically bloating the fuck out of websites.
You're the reason browsers hog so much ram. You all need to be gassed on the spot so we can go back to lean websites.

>>59156493
that vanillajs site gives me a 0 byte size for everything
pretty lean

>>59155616
>Except for JavaScript "engineering" and anything related to algorithms, my technical skills are sharp.

>tfw my latest project has 7.5MiB of CSS
>984KiB of JS
>but 6.3MiB of source maps are loaded too for everyone just so that it's slightly easier for me to debug prod issues
I don't feel great about it, but it works fine and the client is very happy. /g/ would have a fit.

>>59156493
>Loads js that loads js
Why do so many people do this though?

>>59156789
>7.5MiB CSS

how even is this possible

we're going to need those 8 cores

>>59156850
All styling for all pages is included on every page load in one giant style.css file. A bunch of third party theming stuff is in there, probably 70%+ of which I don't actually use. A lot of it is redundant because I copy-pasted CSS for one page and lightly tweaked it for another instead of using a proper templating system (even though SASS is in the pipeline). Also, even though everything is under source control, I usually don't remove rules and instead just add contradictory ones below it so that it's easier to revert... and then never remove the old ones. There might be some base64 datauri images too, I don't actually remember if I got rid of those or not.

Basically I'm OP's worst nightmare.

File: Screenshot from 2017-02-27 21-28-29.png (52KB, 1179x601px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 1179x601px

>>59150493
What a coincidence...

>>59151475
2018
100000mbit iternet but its capped at 15kbs and theres only one isp.

>>59154243
All women belong in the work camps. I dont care who they are or what they do.

>>59157073
how is yahoo not dead yet

>>59157134
they own tumblr

>>59157073
>the top five are pretty unsurprising
google and facebook are unsurprising to me, but the others are
i know one person who uses yahoo services still, besides that it never gets brought up
amazon, apparently pretty popular in some countries, not mine though, so i'm not that familiar with it
microsoft? what web services do they offer? surely hotmail isn't that big alone

>>59157088
Gulag urself

What if I have large images on my page not suitable for PNG?

>>59153561
Do you think they add transistors to CPUs for shits and giggles?

>>59157808
Instead provide a mailing address where a person can send a self-adressed stamped a4 envelope for a hard copy of the image.

>>59151644
>week 5: startup bought for $5 (five) billion
>week 7: giving keynote addresses viewed by millions of future "web developers"

>>59153268
>https://stallman.org/
>https://stallman.org/intel.html
Intel BTFO

>>59150642
This

Fuck off poorfags

/g/ really is essentially a group of neo-luddites stuck in the 90s

"We must make the web shitty and bad so I don't have to change anything about myself and upgrade"

you are essentially SJW tier thought in this regard


-you don't get to decide what the web is and where it's going
-you don't know SHIT about web development
-you've never done it professionally because nobody will touch you because even in the interview you start spouting 90s shit about how you'd just remove all javascript and have to reload the entire page for the slightest change

Libraries are about time. 702KB, 1042KB, 2344KB, nobody gives a shit about this because it will load 0.05s slower on anything after a C2D. It's not about size it's about time, bigger size doesn't inherently "bad". Powerful and real web devs can automate shit and do the jobs of 50+ people and get the hours down to do something else, you'd know this if you'd get your head out of your ass and into this millennium.

>oh I bet I could do it by hand and it would be 1.2 megs smaller
Probably but can you do this for 10 pages? 100? 1000? Of course not because you don't think about these questions because you don't know SHIT about web development.

>>59157073
Web consolidation was the greatest thing possible to happen, I know with your shitty narrative you're trying to paint it like it was some "wild west", and that is in fact true - you're just conveniently forgetting about all the garbage.

>1001 dead links, missing backgrounds, bitmaps as backgrounds
>site owners are pieces of shit and most sites are turbo circlejerks, ban on sight within seconds
>no web standards except a giant "site won't work in anything besides IE"
>IE 99% of share
>hosts suck, don't support anything
>server side langs in infancy and suck

remember hosts, with quotas?

One of my favorite things is the geocities archive because literally 95% of the people who download it never even open it. I dare you to actually open it and see the web as it was. A directionless, shitty wasteland chock full of nothing and shit site owners.

Every download of geocities archive goes like this:
>wow back in the day etc etc
>(download complete)
>...could open it, but I won't
>back in the day... etc etc

Open it faggot

>>59155616
How the living fuck is fizzbuzz so complicated to some people?

Am I missing something?

File: image.jpg (6KB, 96x109px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 96x109px

>>59158356
>SJW
Stopped reading there

>>59158356
tldr; i'm lazy and it runs just fine when run by itself on my $2000 up to date work machine

>>59150493
Use lightweight sites like chiru.no and you won't have this problem

>>59158044
Isn't that what Intel has been doing since Sandy Bridge?

>>59151857
Then just decompress the image 60 times a second to save RAM, dumbass.

>>59158356
>t. Lazy Ass
>Senior Web Dev Who Can't FizzBuzz
>Department of Bloated Shit
>Street Shit, Inc.

>>59158507
You're missing this: Most. People. Cannot. Program.

>>59157134
Senior citizens.

File: Mfw+this+made+me+laugh+as+hard+as+the+content+_82f778ba4e80a4c5645cb68503a454e2.png (64KB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 200x200px

>>59158561

>>59150642
http://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm

>>59158616
Very true.

It just blows my mind. Its four shitty lines of code.

>loop through your shitty numbers
>if x do poo
>if y do loo
>if not x or y do streets

question for webpack code split... am i suppised to include 0.bundle.js in the script tag as well? how do you implement it? i keep getting "module not loaded error" when using reqiure.ensure

web pages are bloated because some jquery-totin, bootstrap-slinging pajeet tries to impress his clueless boss "hurrdurrr animations" and his idiot boss clapping his ears in astonishment

>>59150642
MOORE'S LAW AM I RITE JUST CODE LIKE SHIT NEXT CPU IS GONNA FIX IT
oh wait

>>59158530
Just like a real SJW!

>>59158538
$200 T520. $15 T61 also does the job. It's time to upgrade ned

>>59158569
>t. unemployable neet thinking he "knows how the web works"

>>59158656
someshitty90swebsite.org/muhunix/YouShouldKeepYourWebsiteShittyBecauseImAPieceOfShit

Stay shit and in the 90s /g/.

>>59158745
get mad stay mad. you know its true.

>>59151602
At least jQuery and bootstap is popular enough that you shouldn't be downloading it every time as its cached for later use assuming the devs use the official CDN.

File: image.jpg (68KB, 469x594px) Image search: [Google]

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>>59158745
>SJW
Stopped reading there

>>59158773
>implying all websites use same version of cdn-hosted bloatscript

millenial detected. hows the "kode with karlie" academy treating you?

>>59158768
>>59158785
Just because the thread's over and going into non-responsive territory I'll end with a punch:

you have now become the splitting image of boomers who own "classic" cars rotting in their yard bleating about "the good ol' days". Except for computers.

Think about it for a moment.

>car/PC Hasn't been relevant for 60% of life of industry
>not used, just kept in a shed and talked about with other losers who're doing the same
>sometimes can't turn on or over anymore
>"good ol' days" conveniently ignores facts and makes up own future insisting it's shitty without having tried or known what that future is, all complete fear
>Can only talk about things that happened 30+ years ago because you've forgotten only the bad parts of it so you think it's some "golden age"
>unable to drive/surf to majority of places and not compatible with anything
>walking mobile dead weight station consistently stuck and spending all his time pretending that what he has is superior to everything else


This has absolutely, positively nothing to do with tech, the "web", this is 100% fear of learning to accept anything new.

Future's already here and great... you can do 1000 jobs at once, if you learn how. Or you can do 1 job at once and essentially be the "will program html for food" homeless guy in the picture.

>>59158859
>he still has no idea what the fuck he's talking about and thinks the web bloat discussion is about computer hardware

>>59158859
False analogy jackass.

Modern cars have improved upon older cars in almost every way.

But modern bloated websites are going BACKWARDS. Longer to download, longer to render, and then they do something classic sites never did: heat up your fucking CPU. And before you reply "hurr durr upgrade your PC" phones are always bound in terms of energy and thermals.

So clean up your fucking act and write efficient code.

>>59158683
>loop through your shitty numbers
>if x do poo
>if y do loo
>if not x or y do streets

they should make this a a programming exercise called pooloo

>>59158439
Fuck you, the modern web looks like shit. I would take a throw back any day.

>>59158859
please tell me you did not write that with a straight face.