LITERALLY destroyed modern web development

bump for truth

Don't worry, there is far worse to come.

>>58911933
Why destroyed? Do you mean that this will kill plain html-css-javascript websites ? Isn't that a good thing ?

>>58912196

what is there to come

>>58911933
I think it's the web dev new era. Already learned Angular2 so I can be a pioneer in web 2.1

It just werks :^)

>>58912506
This
Also bump to see what /g/earfags think of it

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>node.js
>bootstrap
>"responsive design" aka make everyting look like an """app"""

I just want data binding without all the bullshit attached

>>58912634
Aurelia

>>58912212
webassembly

>>58911933
Yeah, I love it when big corporations push their bloated meme-frameworks.

>>58912632
it's not bad though

>let's load 5MB of javascript, CSS and other bullshit to change the appearance of common controls to something "unique"

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>>58912647
thanks, will check it out

These frameworks actually saved the web dev world. I've worked on a company that they had implemented their own framework because there were no "alternative" to what they were trying to build.. That company had approximately 20 employees.. They simply built this massive clamp of shit that we had to keep fixing week on week off because the main product relied on it. You have no idea how much bootstrap, angular, react, typescript and all these technologies actually help you..

>>58912648
I see webassembly as a positive thing. If people start writing client-side scripts in more sensible languages like C++, it might become easier to optimize load times, and fewer programmers will be tempted to do full-stack javascript.

>>58912737
Pure HTML/CSS/JS apps are great if you are just get started, once you're comfortable go straight to these frameworks.. They will save you a lot of time

VueJs is better than both.

>>58912737
This, all you have to do is write some lines of code. BAM, a web app.

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ok there are too many new frameworks out there

what are their vulnerabilities?

there must be something seriously wrong with some of them

>>58912634
Vue.js is what I used

Data binding + templating. Apparently it can do all the horse shit angular+react do but idgaf. Fuck single page apps up the ass.

>>58912754
It won't be able to make changes to the DOM, you still need javascript for that. From what I understand it's so you can do heavy calculation under the hood, pretty much for 3D rendering and such.

Fucking this >>58912680
Half the sites won't even load images with javascript disabled nowadays. I sometimes wish every programmer, web developer and such had to spend a year somewhere in Siberia on something like 386 with 4 mb of ram and shitty modem internet that dropped dead all the time before allowed to work professionally. That would make them treasure them megabytes and megahurtz.

>>58912797
bad programmers are what is wrong with everything, and by transitive property JS frameworks.
In particular, some make it easy to share too much with everyone who loads a page. You might have visited a website today that gave you easy access to their user database.

>>58912855

this is because you can't monetize poor fags

its all about the money

nobody cares about the user experience of some retard with low end hardware, low end internet connection because he most likely has no money to spent on whatever the application, service, website, thing is trying to sell

hes also nobody any advertiser would want to advertise you

in short

poor fags are irrelevant

hows that news?

>>58912893
> Implying bad connection means poor people

>>58912680
Most of those memebytes are for ad networks with multiple ad fraud checks, tracking and similar shit. Frameworks themselves don't have to do anything with it, the perpetual cycle of the economy of crap does. You can get a basic lightweight page without a problem.

Can't wait until this "webapp" fad is over man. We went from assembly programmers to this useless heavy inefficienmt buillshit noone asked for

I use angular with Ionic 2 to make hybrid mobile apps. Its quite comfy desu. Plain javascript is quite "ok" when you work with it and you force your self to keep shit organized and stick to design patterns and keep shit clean. But then your colegue helps you, with a "get shit done attitude, uber of, lean startup" attitude adds 10 libraries to make shit thats already doable without them. Does whatever he fucking wants just to make it work not caring about software rot or any fucking programming practice. You end up with garbage code in a garbage app that has zero organisation or maintainance capabilities.

Atleast the frameworks give you a way to control the shitfest at a minimum (although software rot is always present) by giving the developers guidelines on how to do shit properly and organised.

>>58912207
Plain HTML actually looks good now, thanks to HTML5

>>58912632

what does nodejs have to do with bootstrap you fucking autist..

>>58912910

fuck you and your bad connection. or your 386 that can't load javascript.

>>58912940
>Can't wait until this "webapp" fad is over man.

keep waiting faggot, it's not a fad.

>the web shouldn't use javascript
>every web page should look like it was made in 1993
>web pages shouldn't be responsive

fuck these javascript threads really bring the aspies out of the woodwork.

>>58912893
>this is because you can't monetize poor fags
Oh believe me you can. Idiots would happily give away their last shirt, or sell a kidney or something to get thair hands on some useless trinket they've been brainwashed to desire. That's why they are poor in the first place, not because they can't earn money.

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>>58911933
What are these things?

I haven't looked at web shit in 10 years. But are these the reasons sites have all gotten so bloated and slow over the last 3-4 years? Why the web suddenly feels like I'm on dialup again every time a sites changes is shit to that Windows 8 design philosophy?

CNN.com is a 12MB download right now. I'm not making his shit up. I think ISPs are all going slowly broke tbqh

Anyone give me a tl;dr on this shit.

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even fucking James Webb Space Telescope is controlled with Javascript, and it's literally the most advanced tech on Earth

http://www.stsci.edu/~idash/pub/dashevsky0607rcsgso.pdf
> The JWST science operations will be driven by ASCII (instead of binary command blocks) on-board scripts, written in a customized version of JavaScript. The script interpreter is run by the flight software, which is written in C++. The flight software operates the spacecraft and the science instruments.
> The on-board scripts will autonomously construct and issue commands, as well as telemetry requests, in real-time to the flight software, to direct the Observatory Subsystems (e.g., Science Instruments, Attitude Control, etc.). The flight software will execute the command sent by the calling on-board script and return telemetry, which will be evaluated in real-time by that on-board script. The calling script will then send status information to a higher-level on-board script, which contains the logic to skip forward in the observing plan in response to certain events (see Section 4.1).

what's up with these luddites ITT who are refusing to use a fucking space-grade technology?!

>>58912999
>web pages shouldn't be responsive
Web pages are responsive by default.
What's unresponsive about bare HTML?

>>58912737
>They simply built this massive clamp of shit that we had to keep fixing week on week off because the main product relied on it.
Having to deal with this much bullshit probably means you're doing something wrong. There's no bloody need to make an OS out of the browser. Just write an actual application to suit your needs instead of brainfucking yourself making the poor browser do something it's clearly was not designed to.

>>58912999
>what does nodejs have to do with bootstrap you fucking autist..
Nothing, but both are cancer

>>58913072
JUST

>>58913082
ok pajeet you stick to php

>>58913094
>doing web dev
kek

>>58912999
>>58913072

So this is the future?
>>58904536
Embarassing

>>58913100
>why doesn't it work when i multiply 5 with 'potato'

>>58913075
>Having to deal with this much bullshit probably means you're doing something wrong.

Have you NEVER had a client ask you for some insane shit?

>>58913147

That's the sad part. It's not that it doesn't work.
IT FUCKING WORKS

This absolute garbage actually gets compiled/interpreted and the execution continues like nothing went wrong
How the fuck is this acceptable

I just wish my low end hardware could actually benefit from fast Internet connection and load pages like YouTube in under 20 seconds

>>58913147

NaN

>>58913201
Just use Noscript.
Most sites worth a shit. Those that don't are usually garbage anyway. You can whitelist the ones you like.

>>58913150
>Have you NEVER had a client ask you for some insane shit?
This is why truly successful companies don't listen to their clients but shove their own insane solutions down their throats. Just look at microsoft or apple for example.

How do I make web-page

I want to make site similar to IMDB for my own purpose

>>58913072
thanks for this pdf anon

>>58913297

 ng new imdb-like-website --prefix iamafag 

I FUCKING HATE PHP FRAMEWORKS.

FUCKING NETTE MAN.

I CAN WRITE NORMAL PHP BUT FOR SOME REASON

I DON'T UNDERSTAND A THING ABOUT THIS FUCKING THING.

I SPENT LAST WEEK READING THROUGH THEIR DOCUMENTATION AND I ALWAYS ENDED UP WITH "WHAT THE FUCK?"

I THINK I AM CLINICALLY RETARDED. SEND HELP.

>>58913383
I read about neoliberalism for a semester and I don't understand how anyone thinks it functions or how it functions at all it's all voodoo to me

>>58911933
react is ok, but REDUX IS JUST RETARDED

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react is pretty comfy imo

>>58913558
> {...css}
> 1MB of code added to website
Fuck react.

>>58912737
I bet they never heard of Haxe

>>58912828
>changes to the DOM
I'm no webdev, but isn't that just real time changes to the HTML?

vue is alright lads
but yea they are forcing you to modularize shit in a different way of the old "includes" and through javascript components. shit is ridiculous to strictly use a JS framework on every fucking project from now on.

>>58912797
> what are their vulnerabilities?
We are talking about front end frameworks here.
They are no more or less "vulernable" than the (not necessarily restful) (not necessarily JSON) backends they call, pushing the responsibility on the backend, mostly.
The one thing that comes to mind that could be dangerous is XSS.

>>58913072
But it's not on earth.

Vue.js is literally the jQuery of SPA and it is glorious.

>>58911933
Well, that implies it was good before...

>>58912855
Its all so tiresome. What are people doing on pcs that you cant do on a 486 with basic office tools. If it werent for media you wouldnt need anything but a 16 bit pc

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>>58912207
>isn't downloading 40MiB of obfuscated javascript to render a webpage a good thing
>isn't replacing html-css-js with a framework that fixes none of the problems of html-css-js and adds a ton of new problems a good thing?

>>58913074
>Web pages are responsive by default
Not really, a lot of basic HTML features like tables and images don't work particularly well with resizing.

It's a thing you can easily fix with CSS width queries, though.

>>58914572
> isn't downloading 40MiB of obfuscated javascript to render a webpage a good thing
40? Really? Kek.
> isn't replacing html-css-js with a framework that fixes none of the problems of html-css-js and adds a ton of new problems a good thing?
Just learn to code then?

>>58914296
yes it is

>>58914454
It is, it's not launched yet.

>>58914454
> But it's not on earth.
this >>58914956
Also, Javascript into space ~o~

>>58913193
i don't know m8, been writing js for years never had a type related error. i know what each variable type is and convert to string/int when needed.

>>58912506
>using the smiley with a carat nose

>>58912940
4chan is a webapp

>>58912754
If anything, it will make optimization of load times much worse, since you'll only have a compiled binary blob, you cannot edit it, like you currently can with any js file.

If bootstrap or angular puts something into their webassembly script that slows your site down or tracks you, you won't be able to do anything about it other than completely removing it (which may completely break your site).

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>>58913582
try again

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>>58912999
>web pages shouldn't be responsive
>implying javascript is responsive

When are we going to have something better than JS

>>58917004
When you write new compiler that compiles to js, oh wait...

>>58914572
ffs

without angular/react my job would suck

we have to go back

http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/
http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com/
make the web great again when?

>>58920204
you two look like a couple of cunts

>>58913558
Is this just CSS rendered in JS? What the fuck is the point of that? Why not just use CSS3? Or better yet, vanilla JavaScript?

I'm slowly learning JS and wondering what the fuss is about React/Angular and THIS is it? What the fuck? I thought it would actually have some semblance of use. Why don't people just use vanilla JavaScript instead of learning shit like this just to pad a resume? I thought I regretted getting into this shitty, dying field before but if this is what I have to look forward to maybe I should just realize I fucked up my life and reboot it right now.

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>>58913558
>react
>literally facebook botnet language

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>>58912999
>thinks autist is an insult

>>58921424
>all I can do is use meme arrows and /g/ buzzwords
KEK

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>>58921479
>all I can do is swallow Zuck's shit
Good goy.

>>58921498
>all I can do is resort to nonsensical ad hominems when someone points out I'm literally saying nothing
WEW

>>58920204
And what if I want more than just static text?

>>58920204
>>58921296
>>58921563
>not using <meta charset=utf-8><pre> as header
shiggy

>>58920204
>static text documents
I could just read a fucking epub.

>>58921563
>http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com/
Use a server side language + database + javascript

>>58913072
>customized version of JavaScript

So it's not JS, just something similiar. The most likely have a barebone scriptlanguage that could be likened to anything.

>>58913410
What about MobX

>>58912754
>Sensible language
>C++

pick one

C++ is only good when you need to write low level code. Not what you care about in browsers. What we really need is a good strongly typed functional language to get good compilation to webassembly.

>>58912754
It optimizes load time, not run time. JIT interpreters already do a good job for run time if you write your code sensibly.

The bad thing is I won't be able to see your code and modify/inject my own into it anymore. I'll probably keep it disabled except for my own sites.

>>58912196
There had better fucking not be

>>58912680
>Let's write lines of CSS to style text when simple

<b>, <i>, and <u>

HTML tags accomplish the same thing

>>58912196
With WebAssembly down the road it can only get better... I hope.

>>58912999
>t.frontend codemonkey justifying his life choices

>>58921471
This

>Angular + React

>>58919967
quote of the thread. Angular and React aren't to make javascript run better in your browser, they're to speed up developer time.

Developer time is 10,000x more valuable than execution time.

My primary function is managing a small team, and when I'm not doing that I'm writing C++. Sometimes I need to whack out a web-ui to control that backend software. Bootstrap + angular are indispensible for me getting a simple control panel for my software done in minutes not hours.

>>58914905
Everything mentioned in this thread is under 1MB when minified and gzipped, as it should be in production.

And sites should be using the CDN version so that clients can cache the files. (Not that this means anything since every site ends up using a different point version of their runtime and you just end up caching hundreds of versions of angular)

>>58911933
Just you wait

In a decade, the standard web page will use 2GB of RAM, an i7 6th gen+, 10Gbps broadband and 1920*1080 monitors minimum BUT it will have redundency code for over 9 million different resolutions combinations.

And it will all be written in python-vocal, the new voice-driven programming language that's taught in every school.

>>58921527
not him but
https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/master/PATENTS


infringe a patent of facebook or one of its bazillion children and you lose your right to use react
then they can sue you for still using it 5 minutes after withdrawing your license

that hasn't happened yet because facebook is still doing well
but once that stops throwing off profit they could make a lot of money suing people for using react in a project that looks kinda similar to something facebook has or owns

Web app is not the same as web page.
It basically requires a framework like it would for a GUI app.
Yeah it's 10+MB, but so are desktop apps.

>>58911933
>http://mithril.js.org/
>8 kb
>faster than either
Problem solved.

>>58926372
I know you're joking, but the truth is that in a decade we will be basically in the exact same place. I would not be surprised if React and it's descendants are still commonly used.

>muh atom is slow
>Muh js desktop apps are slow
I will never know that feel, I've used a SSD (the same one) since 2012.

>>58926760
>just throw more hardware at it
epic

>>58926798
SSD is not really more, just better. I actually only have a 64gb, but since I don't do much than use it for programming and web, it's enough. Ubuntu only takes like 6gb.

>>58926760
>implying disk I/O (which is handled by the OS anyway) is the bottleneck of JS programs
Get a load of this fucking guy.

>>58911933
More like JS in general

>>58926984
It's part of the equation you retarded shitstain. Why does Atom work as fast as Vim for me and not for you crying bitches?

>>58927061
Because placebo is strong with you. Interpreted languages aren't slow because they do disk operations slowly. They're slow because they're fucking interpreted. If you don't happen to subjectively experience the objective orders of magnitude of a performance difference, you should thank you CPU, not your fucking SSD.

Why do "modern" web apps feel it's necessary to load every single little fucking thing using ajax?

Plain pre-rendered HTML is sooo much better than 18 spinning gifs waiting for a slow ass ASP.NET server to serve 50 HTTP requests.

I'm making a php website, at what point should I exactly switch from javascript to a framework? Are these purely for nodejs? I understand bootstrap is for mobile phones.

>>58911933
>not using Ember
which is objectively the superior one
Angular and React are just memes and built for all the script kiddies out there

>>58928461
>pre-rendered HTML
serialized DOM

>spinning gifs
>what are CSS3 transitions/animations or SVGs

>asp.net
>1999

>http
deprecated and slow

also
>not knowing how to split up an app into logical chunks that are minimal and can be sideloaded

>>58928776
This

>>58928702
Tbh, use plain php plain javascript. Then when you realise how garbage it is to maintain, switch to a framework for your second project.

>>58912999
Kek he just unleashed his autism

>>58921877
Ok, but now i want to add interaction without actually reloading the page.
I wan't real time notifications, posting comments without reloading, etc.

You all motherfuckers need elm, it's glorious.

>>58928702
Install WerdPress and go for a nice drive.
Maybe you'll get to meet a nice lady to drive with

>>58927217
You do realize that vimscript is an interpeted language right? The idiots on /g/ these days.

>>58921358
>github com/smyte/jsxstyle

I like having styles in the same file as the components they belong to. It's nice to be able to drop in a styled component and optionally pass it additional css as props.

My workflow might be a bit different from how most people do things because I don't work as a web developer lol