HIRE AMERICAN FIRE NON-AMERICANS. Really hope Trump reforms H1B.

thats a stupid way to look at it.

here is a breakdown for you.

you arent being hired because you are too dumb, meanwhile, pajeet is a hardworking dude who knows how to get shit done, thats why he gets hired and you are complaining on an imageboard

kill yourself for voting trump you fag.

kys you red pilled moronic Idiot

>>58882376
>>58882395
t. Poojeet

>>58882376

Dude, H1B was intended to get Elon Musks of the world, not populate entry level tech worker ranks. You think Microsoft and Qualcomm have thousands of positions open for senior level architects? Why do you think tech workers in defense get an auto salary bump, maybe cause they're not competing with foreign nationals? If it wasn't strictly cost and only due to intelligence or talent there'd be no salary discrepancy.

They hire foreign workers because it's easier to pay them less because they often require less in terms of living expenses, and they also are more loyal to the company.

>>58882376
Why not just import 50 million Chinese to work all american jobs?

It's almost like a cost of living exists

>>58882356
learn how to fucking compete man.

>They hire foreign workers because it's easier to pay them less because they often require less in terms of living expenses, and they also are more loyal to the company.

All I read was theyre cheap and have to go home if they're ford fired.

its pretty sad when the innovators of technology are being pushed down by society in our own country

intelligence isnt rewarded like the old days

kids dont want to be scientists or engineers

they want to be actors or models and basketball players or rappers


personal it feels really great to be validated after so long..

i always thought i was born too late (not in the tech boom and internet bubble of the 80s)

where people designed their own home computers and programmed them and you needed technical knowledge to access a BBS

i spend all my youth so interested in the subject and somehwere along the line they went from being treated as wizards to that of a plumber

someone who just restarts the servers who facebook crashes

someone who backports a patch to a outdated kernel

they dont understand the technical difficulty involved so its percieved as simple

ive had trouble personally finding work despite having more experience and personal interest in these fields

im ranting here and i shouldnt because im just so greatful to have the mutual respect back between a employer and employee

that people will be help accountable for contracts and they will be required to be qualified for that task

including certifications and references ect

thank you trump!

I'm a software developer and I think there's only 1 other person in our group whose parents where born in this country. Most of my coworkers are foreign, here temporarily or permanently. I think part of the problem is that Americans don't want to be engineers. Personally, I had a number of teachers, advisers, bosses tell me I'm not cut out for serious technology. Despite their advice, which was perfectly reasonable, I graduated and have been working in the industry for about 6-7 years. It's going ok. It's not a great lifestyle though, I can understand why people don't want to do it. If we can make the industry more attractive to people somehow I think more Americans will join without having to lower the foreign hire capacity or drastically increasing wages.

>>58882957
I feel you man

This is happening in all fields of science, not just computing

>>58882957
>>>/reddit/

>>58883040
>If we can make the industry more attractive to people somehow I think more Americans will join without having to lower the foreign hire capacity or drastically increasing wages.
And yet there's so much crying and gnashing of teeth when initiatives to get women into tech happen.

>>58883098
I like the idea of having more women in tech but I don't like these women in tech initiatives. It seems like such a kludge solution. Like, you're trying to take 15 year old girls and be like "hey random girl, you should study computer science". I was into computers way before 15, but I'm a guy so it was ok. When I was a kid, I didn't want to talk to people. I wanted to play video games, build computers, fix electronics, write code, etc. That's just not a lifestyle women find attractive. If we can change the culture of the industry women (and girls) will want to join organically without needing focus groups, lawyers, campaigns, etc. Obviously I don't have the answers and I'm not an expert, I'm just throwing out ideas.

>>58882356
I do understand the abuse of H1B, it should be prevented.

But, have you been to a university recently? If so were you able to count the number of US citizens who are grad students? In most universities you can count it with your fingers. Projects awarded by defense industry usually run out of time because they can't find grad students who are US citizens.

So removing H1B completely will also remove the supply of actually skilled PhDs that are not readily available in US. Also why send back these dudes who get educated using resources in US? This is how tech industry in US stays ahead of others.

Do you have an alternative to this issue? No? Then H1B should stay.

>>58882356
H1B is fine, the salary ranges and enforcement need to be brought up to grade so that we bring in actual entrepreneurs, not poos

>>58882356
they hire foreigners, because your education is shit.

>>58884496
>entrepreneurs
That would be an E visa, not H1B. H is for temporary workers that would fill a critical position for which a competent employee can't be found in US.

>>58883098
'get women into tech' is to reduce wages, like everything else.
They rarely get the kind of useful highly trained people out of those programs that the companies actually need- the women there just make up a large number of the 'technically qualified' to use as a 'whoa look how many people are applying, time to pay them dirt'

>>58882676
>foreigners magically require less living expenses
yeah, nonsense. (assuming they pay the same amount of taxes as natives)

>>58884363
The trump changes won't get rid of H1B, they will just make it so that the more you're paying your H1B, the higher priority they are.
Basically how it should have been in the first place. If you aren't willing to pay for them then they aren't critically demanded are they

>>58882376
Fuck off pajeet, trump is saving america by keeping our jobs and stopping globalists from destroying america.

>>58884363
This is a problem manufactured entirely by government contracting rules.

The fed has rules against hiring non-degree holders, against hiring non-union members, etc. You CANNOT be a research lead in govt without a PhD, and you can't do research without being part of a postgraduate degree program or better.

It's retarded and self defeating to lock out 95% of people for ivory tower scum.

>>58884543
H1B is for highly skilled. Your average junior programmer should not ever be filled by a visa

>>58882356

Nigga most of these jobs are outsourced anyways.

Tech does not rely on citizenship

>pajeet makes software in india
>americans can't compete
>americans don't have jobs again
wow, the magic of the free market

>>58884590
>H1B is for highly skilled. Your average junior programmer should not ever be filled by a visa
Not for entrepreneurs though. They get another type of visa, which is what I was correcting on the other dude's post.

Also highly skilled gets an O visa and not an H1B. H is specifically for the talent that is important for US but not available in US.

>>58884577
>The trump changes won't get rid of H1B,
Has he made an official statement? Why are you so optimistic about him? Especially after his glorious "WE SHALL BAN THEM!" statements during his rallies turned out to be a half baked executive order that made only a little impact.

>>58884631
>No more americans can afford anything since all jobs pay 10$ an hour
>Entire market crashes since all the services were leeching off middle america
wow this really made me twink

>>58884535
At least we know how to shit in the toilet.

>>58882376
Pajeet, H1B is slave labor. They're supposed to pay you what an American worker would get, but I think you know how that works out.

Trump's strategy of verifying that there's no local talent and that H1B workers get equal payment is good for Pajeets who know what they're doing.

>>58882356

I sit on one of the boards that selects Pajeets for a tech company in the Greater Seattle Area.

The lowest salary I have ever seen thrown across the table was $50k/year. We are not paying these H1B's minimum wage, they are making decent money. I'd say 1/4th of them get a 6 figure position. We may pay an American 140k, and we can pay Pajeet 100k. I've seen American developers that rather collect unemployment then settle for a 100k/year job. I do not get it, we are greedy and selfish.

>>58882356
>murrikans think they are somehow worth more than everyone else
kek

>>58882356
https://twitter.com/MicrosoftJobs/status/827263510518181888

>>58883098
Because those initiatives don't pull in actual talent, or even people who are interested in the field. Coercing women into computer engineering fields insinuates that they're not capable of showing interest and initiative themselves.

>>58884682
Trump said multiple times throughout his campaign that the H1B system needs to result in paying foreign workers fair wages instead of paying them peanuts to save on the bottom line.

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Can't they hire foreigners without H1Bs?

>>58884751
I would fucking murder a human being inside a church with a dead babies umbilical cord if it meant getting a job paying 100K a year.

>>58884779
Cost of living in Seattle is so much higher than you think. They pay for one day in parking what would buy you three days of food.

>>58884769
>Trump said multiple times throughout his campaign that the H1B system needs to result in paying foreign workers fair wages instead of paying them peanuts to save on the bottom line.
So he has said that he would do something about it but not what he would do to achieve that.

Like everything he says really, so far they turned out to be not impressive. Excluding one person he appointed Rex Tillerson though, he turned out decent I think.

>>58884795
Live outside of town inside a a trailer being pulled by your truck. Or just live in a box. Hell you can live in your car if you rotate between truck stops.

I did before. All you have to do is save up for at least 6-9 months of most of what you would make and you can get out on top with some nice savings.

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>>58882356

Americans, you don't understand that your basic education system is horrid. Sure, you have some great Universities but it is ignorant to think that 4 years of Higher Education is somehow going to compensate for 12+ years of poor basic education. Not to mention, you are more susceptible to learning at younger ages and the type of education you get at those younger years really does define your intelligence later in life.

>>58884831
The US, Like China is a huge place. I'm interested in how they came up with those stats. There's hundreds of millions people in rural China who do not consider quality higher education a top priority.
Limiting "China" to "Shanghai" is like limiting the United States to Massachusetts, a complete misrepresentation.

Also, in my experience, while early childhood education plays a big part in how you learn as an adult, lot of that can be overcome with persistence. If you're willing to stick with something for years or decades, you'll get good at it. As a kid I was held back in math and told I wasn't good enough. I ended up taking advanced calculus in college. I had the support from my family and environment to apply myself to math, among other things, something many kids don't get, even in America.

Numbers are nice, but stereotypes go a long way in shaping how you view individuals. Most people aren't smart enough to objectively evaluate a person without cultural prejudices. That's not necessarily a terrible thing in all cases, bias is a valid survival mechanism on a primitive level, I'm sure
When most people think of Chinese people they think of math nerds quietly toiling away on computers for peanuts. Meanwhile, these are the Chinese kids I grew up around:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFg66BJO2w4

>>58884543
Still, for a place like silicon valley that salary needs to be 130k+ not 60k which is entry level desktop support.

>>58884717
Exactly, most h1bs live 6 to an apartment and send all the money back home

>>58885127
>Still, for a place like silicon valley that salary needs to be 130k+ not 60k which is entry level desktop support.
That has nothing to do with what I said. I wasn't even talking about salaries.

Entrepreneur gets E
Highly skilled gets O
Critical employee not available in US gets H

What the other dude was saying was wrong and I wanted to correct.

>>58884779
I make 100k anon and I've only been working on IT for 6 years.

It's really not that hard.

I'm not getting this whole ''we can't find enough skilled workers in America'' meme.

I think the only area that really needs people and can't find them was nursing and SOME Doctors.

I heard horror stories about college graduates with CS degrees and programming training who can't find a single job even paying 35K and they resort to working at places like wal-mart or customer service making 14$ an hours.

>>58884717
Exactly, by upping the H1B salary it means companies can no longer use it as a backdoor to import 3rd world contractors and pay them slave labor wages.

It still allows for companies to hire foreign PhDs and the like crucial for advancing in research but at the same time removes the economic benefit of outsourcing to the lowest bidder (Tata consultancy bullshit).

Sadly my own shit country sells out to pajeets, every single bank in Canada is run by TFW (temporary foreign workers) who are flown in for 6-12mos contracts and paid less than a janitor

>>58885201
Because it's a scam.

What they can't find is skilled workers willing to work for their shitty salary, so they cry to the feds and demand H1Bs be imported because 'nobody can be hired'.

>>58885201
>I'm not getting this whole ''we can't find enough skilled workers in America'' meme.
But it is real, finding US citizens with PhDs to work is seriously hard. Bulk of the jobs that are created in tech don't require a PhD but research positions and higher levels do which is exactly why H visa exists.

The companies who are exploiting it for tech consulting can find skilled workers in America though.

>>58885246
It's never been about PhDs it's always been about megacorps offering really lowball salaries and unable to get anybody with skill to bite because they can make 2-3x that elsewhere.

H1B was supposed to be an answer to the supposed lack of PhDs but was never used for it, it was totally a scam https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13614507 and even major companies like Google lowballed H1B salaries offering them 75% what an American would make with the same skillset.

>>58885182
I work doing home based 'support engineer' tier , just replying to emails, inspecting shitty ruby code all day and triage bug reports and I make $100k USD per year too, plus have 2 paid vacations, plus have a paid home office, plus have all benefits paid 100%.

It really isn't hard

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>>58882356

>ITT: lazy murricans want keep job while being lazy

We superpower by 2020.
Just wait.

>>58882439
When the company can get you kicked out of your home you tend to do as your told. But that shit aint loyalty

>THEYRE TAKING MUH JOBS
americans, ladies and gentlemen

I blame Java, Microsoft, Oracle and the DOM.

>>58885326
Great, then you can get outsourced to Pakistanis and Sri Lankans and lose your job too

>>58885296
>It's never been about PhDs it's always been about megacorps offering really lowball salaries and unable to get anybody with skill to bite because they can make 2-3x that elsewhere.
>H1B was supposed to be an answer to the supposed lack of PhDs but was never used for it, it was totally a scam https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13614507 and even major companies like Google lowballed H1B salaries offering them 75% what an American would make with the same skillset.
This tells me that you are not working in the industry. The company I worked for exclusively hired PhDs and sponsored their H1Bs as intended, and a lot of companies get their PhDs from F visa students. Do you know why? Because no American goes to grad school. And not going to grad school for US citizens is a logical choice as they make only marginally less than PhDs which is no big deal if you spend the time you'd spend in grad school actually gaining experience.

So in the end:
>No Americans in grad schools
>No US PhDs
>Companies have to hire recent grad Fs, sponsor their Hs

This is excluding the consultancy companies that exploit the visa type.

>America gains from brain drain of other countries

>Suddenly America reverse the foreign brain drain

>America loses edge

>>58885365
No american goes to grad school? Ok I see you've never been to grad school in the US which is shockingly full of Americans.

Most world grad schools are trash which is why their degrees don't translate into direct accreditation in any Western country. Look at a typical Ukraine grad school it's like first yr undergrad

>>58885406
>No american goes to grad school? Ok I see you've never been to grad school in the US which is shockingly full of Americans.
I'm in grad school, and there's I think 1 or 2 US citizens. This is especially true for engineering, and I know that the situation in quite a few schools is the same (I can only talk about ones I have friends in not some school in Lebanon KS). If you count other graduate studies I'm sure that the balance will tip over to US citizen side.

>>58885390
Every company just circumvents this easily anyway, like Microsoft's Canada campus which they use to import pajeets with PhDs in statistics to do machine learning research. Just open satellite campus somewhere, pay off local gov officials to import immigrants, don't need H1B for research so ultimately H1Bs are just for importing slave labor code monkeys

>>58884567
They're more willing to live in lesser conditions because they come from living conditions that are even lesser.

They also have less of a desire for "fun", so less money to love required.

>>58885443
CMU grad school here, it's capped 20% foreigners. PhD shortage = not willing to pay for them that's all, wallstreet doesn't have an issue hiring mathematicians.

>>58884769
But he hasn't put forth a proposal.

The current legislation is from a Californian democrat

>>58882957
They used to be treated like wizards in their own circles. They were treated like dirt everywhere else. It's a way more respected job today than it ever was.

People didn't even know computers existed until right before they could steal mp3s with them.

>>58885444
Canada gains from this deal though. Companies still continue to make money.

>>58884363
Those companies should offer higher salaries to entice brighter minds to seek out higher education.

The most intelligent people I went to college with (Texas A&M) went into mechanical/petroleum because they were all guaranteed $100k+ to work in Houston with just a bachelor's. Those are the people who weren't even remotely affected by the economic downturn

>>58885470
Well, it's not the same for every school. In a school I know a project that got funding from defense industry has been stalled for 3 years because no US citizen would join and they specifically requested US citizens in the project.

>>58885450
>Minimum wage is fine

Some of these positions require a degree and experience.

>>58882957
No one intelligent or innovative is being pushed down.

I think you just aren't as smart as you think. Intelligent people are being well taken care of by the rich who invest in intelligent people to make them richer

>>58885528
I didn't even mention minimum wage OR say it's ok. That's why I got a degree

>>58885511
And what exactly keeps these companies loyal to US when the cost of operation in other countries gets lower? I don't understand how sending back PhDs that are educated in US helps US companies.

>>58885541
A degree doesn't gurantee good pay. Companies purposefully give unresonable hiring requirements for no pay and turn around and say "We couldn't find anyone" so they hire H1Bs

>>58884831
A lot of Americans know our education is garbage, the others have been brainwashed into thinking we have to support it because the teachers are so underpaid. That's literally the narrative concerning education here.

We know. Most of us won't admit it because we're assholes but we know.

>>58885554
What keeps them.loyal is the money they make from the US. If what you believe is true, then they would already be gone from the country. I don't want to send back PhDs. I want those students to be home grown

Like you said, cost of operations is much cheaper elsewhere, but they make their money here. If they didn't, they would just leave. These companies aren't staying here for no reason. They gain something from being here.

>>58885569
I'm on your side man. I was explaining why those H1B visa people are "cheaper"

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>>58882957
>kids don't want to be scientists or engineers

This is 100% wrong. Like completely incorrect in every way imaginable. There has never been a bigger push for science and engineering than there is right now in there very instant. You've got shit like Bill Nye and Neil DeGrasse Tyson being Reddit superstars. I know most of what they say is political trash and pop science, but it's still generating interest in the field. Look at the hipster movement. It's cool to be smart now.

The reason we see so many Chinese and Indian folks in tech is because, well, there are quite literally billions and billions of them. And unlike Mexico, they're actually sending their best to America to get an education and career.

Back to your original statement. I think that if anything, science is far too popular right now. Kids are being tricked into thinking that science is always super fun and awesome because they watched The Cosmos and a few Stephen Hawkings documentaries. Science can be cool, but it's also difficult as hell and very frustrating. I imagine that there are going to be a lot of heartbroken kids who quit studying science because it ended up being too hard. I had a couple of roommates back in college who had this happen to them. One wanted to be a mechanical engineer, but ended up switching to journalism. Another wanted to be a physicist, but ended up getting a French degree. The sugarcoating and popularity science can be a bad thing.

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>>58882356
Get fucked, you fascist.

Wew

>>58885318
Although, I gotta say, doing remote devops or systems administration is my goal.

>>58885575
I would argue that teachers are underpaid. If they were babysitters making $8 per hour per kid they'd be making more way more. They don't just babysit tho, they educate.

I would also argue that a lot of teachers suck because the best potential teachers don't teach, they take higher paying, more respected jobs

>>58882376
Your day is coming, pajeet. Just wait.

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>>58886366
I'm not saying they're not underpaid, I think they are. It's just that's what the politicians and media and everyone wants us to focus on anytime education issues are brought up. I've wondered about why my professors would even teach technology when an entry level job would pay them much more. I guess you've got to have a passion for it.

We really need education reform in this country if we are to compete, I don't really think any logical person can disagree with this. Good thing our education secretary is well qualified to make such decisions now /s.

I'm not even anti-trump, I think he's crazy enough to get some important shit done.

>>58882376
If they're so hard working, why isn't software and the next big thing being made in India?

>>58882957
>they want to be actors or models and basketball players or rappers

This isn't anything new, it's just more prevalent because of media. You think all kids in the 20s didn't want to be the next baseball star?

>>58886874
>I've wondered about why my professors would even teach technology when an entry level job would pay them much more. I guess you've got to have a passion for it.

Or they just can't cut it. I always heard about economists being lauded, even though they've been in academia their whole life.

>>58885611
Low energy b8

>>58886874
my issue with raising teacher pay is that it shouldn't be a blanket raise which would also reward shitty teachers who are just phoning it in, or worse, taking their shitty life out on their students. before any raise is approved it should include terms to make pay merit based. I say this as an oklahoman where we're dead last in everything related to education. I mean yea a raise would attract and help keep better teachers but, something has to be done about the bad teachers as well

Honestly the new $130,000 minimum for H1-B is a win/win for everyone

Americans aren't shafted for cheap labor
Foreign workers aren't underpaid

pajeets that move to america get paid the same as if they were american

>>58887226
Doesn't help if they have 30+ classroom sizes or kids that don't want to learn.

You neanderthals realize it costs companies more, both financially and risk wise, to hire an international student instead of the American, right? The problem is the Americans are lazy, stupid fucks so it's worth it to hire "pajeet" instead.

>>58887259
that doesn't matter, it's just an excuse for poor teaching. many teachers make it work, get through to students and accommodate large classes. we need to raise the standard instead of blindly accepting a lower standard to cast a wider net

>>58882356
Just an observation:

-The country and world needs IT like never before. Every single business in the US needs it to some degree. We are literally living in the "information age".
-Older people *generally* have a harder time with these newfangled "computers", due to the sheer amount that must be learned from scratch and the reduced plasticity of the fully-formed adult human brain.
-H1B visas are overwhelmingly used for IT jobs.
-Older people overwhelmingly put Trump in office and want protectionist policies, e.g. hate for H1B visas.

So yes, lets stop H1B visas and just mobilize our army of computer-illiterate grandparents to meet the business challenges of the 21st century. Sounds legit. The US will surely maintain a leadership position throughout the 21st century.

The fact is that the demand for IT services is SO HUGE IT HAS OVERTAKEN THE EARTH. If you cant get an IT job its not because of an H1B candidate . ITS BECAUSE YOU FUCKING SUCK.

curryniggers on suicide watch

fuck drumpf
fuck white people
fuck men
fuck patriarchy
fuck christians
fuck the church
fuck heterosexuals
fuck cis scum
fuck hate
fuck haters
fuck hate speech
fuck "free speech"
fuck bigotry
fuck racism
fuck sexism
fuck colonialism
fuck harassment
fuck cyberbullying
fuck discrimination
fuck employment discrimination
fuck housing discrimination
fuck white neighborhoods
fuck privilege
fuck the 1%
fuck pence
fuck priebus
fuck republicans
fuck conservatives
fuck corporations
fuck big pharma
fuck big oil
fuck monsato
fuck haliburton
fuck profit
fuck capitalism
fuck the bourgeoisie
fuck exploitation
fuck slavery
fuck police shootings
fuck school shootings
fuck assault weapons
fuck guns
fuck hunting
fuck meat eaters
fuck destruction of natural resources
fuck global warming
fuck voter id
fuck walls
fuck fences
fuck borders
fuck ice
fuck nationalism
fuck america

>>58885603
>I'm on your side

This is whats wrong with America right now. Just engage in discourse and form your own opinions, which should differ from others in complex ways. Taking a "side" is childish.

>>58887252
SIKE

>>58887297
no, it's because h1b visa holders are essentially indentured slaved, who if they don't satisfy the companys' demands will be sent back to whatever third world shithole they came from

>>58882439
No, no it wasn't, hence why the requirements are ultra low (bachelor's degree). Foreign workers get paid the same as their domestic counterparts, the company actually has to pay more overall when you account for the increased paperwork/visa (~8-10k).

>>58887273
Yea for sure bud. That's why they have 0 American workers and are preparing to move their entire devops to India. You caught us lazy, stupid Americans being idiots again

That's another victory for w/e country you're from and a big loss for us moon explorers. When will we learn?

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>>58887252

>>58887327
What the hell? I agree with his opinion and that is what's wrong with America? Wtf? Siding with someone on an issue is now bad. We should all disagree on everything I guess?

There is only 2 sides to wanting something. You either want it, or don't

>>58887364
Outsourcing is completely different than H1B, you do realize that right? A company doesn't deal with the expensives and hassle of bringing an Indian to the US just to outsource everything back to India.

>>58887339
What does this even mean?

Anyone who doesnt satisfy the company they work for will be sent back to whereever they came from. Whether its across the world or across the street, you need to get your job done.

>>58887350
>Amerifat gets with "low requirement" bachelor's has to devote time to study/school and gets debt
>pajeet with no degree but fifteen years (at age 23) of service desk/q&a and is willing to work for dimes gets job

>>58887422
companies make insane demands of these people they only get paid the same on paper, yes they get the same salary but are expected to work eighty hour workweeks, to basically live at the company. these workers don't have the option to simply quit and go work for someone else. quitting or getting fired gets them deported

It was always funny on Slashdot back in the day to read years worth of DNC talking points regurgitated on fucking every comment section except when H1B's came up they'd suddenly get all protectionist.
Gee wonder what was different~

>>58887436
Oh look, a completely made up anecdote that doesn't have any basis in reality.

Next.

>>58882356

>amerifags complaining about globalization

lel

this is pure national socialism, something way different than the liberism that made america great.

this is what comes out when people are just embracing the fear, what a bunch of fucking plebs...

>>58887393
>There is only 2 sides to wanting something. You either want it, or don't

The real world is more complex. Its not just yes or no, good or bad, right or wrong. Nothing in life is perfect. Everything can be changed in innumerable ways and our job as citizens is to discuss and evaluate those innumerable changes. We should all be on ONE side, the side of the good of the nation.

>>58887297
>ITS BECAUSE YOU FUCKING SUCK.

I wonder why so many intelligent, progressive, liberal, high-educated, tech-oriented, not-fake-news-brainwashed and decent people keep thinking that dismissing the Trump voters and related social strata (whose problem is actually economic, and not muh racism whatever MSM says) with messages like that is a winning strategy.

What's your plan? You think that if you berate enough the starving masses they're gonna grovel, kiss your feet and go back to earn a Javascript online degree?

You really think you make friends and convince people that way?


No. And if Trump fails to fix the country (which is most probable because alas, he is not a King) then they'll have to vote someone who does the job, whatever it takes. That means someone actually reactionary, not a republican-disguised old-style democrat like Trump.

"Interesting" times indeed.

>>58887403
Yes I'm aware and that is my point. If Americans are stupid, lazy and incapable of doing the job then they wouldn't hire ANY Americans, they would just outsource all of the work to India, but that isn't the case.

The main reason for most H1B visas isn't the quality of worker, it's how much the companies have to pay. It's basically 0 investment to bring them over and put them to work for a fraction of a fair salary.

Look at what Intel did. Fired thousands of employees to be replaced by H1Bs. It's not like Intel wasn't doing well at the time. The employees weren't bad. They are just using the program as a way to cut costs.

If you disagree then prove it. Companies have already lost in court for abusing the program, so you can't pretend it doesn't happen.

>>58887457
You are saying they work harder than Americans and that its better for the business to employ H1B workers than to employ Americans?

If so, one easy fix for that is to open up immigration so they dont have to be so frightened of deportation. Then they wouldnt work as hard, and americans could compete with them, right?

>>58882376
deep down you all know that he's right

>>58882356
That’s it, I’m done. Fuck this chat. It’s devolved into a mass of retarded copy pastes and face spam. The quality of twitch chat has been declining for a while, but this is the last straw. That’s it. I’m done. I’m uninstalling the internet, chopping off my dick and moving to fucking Antarctica, at least the bacteria there will be fucking smarter discourse

>>58887490
Yea the real world is more complex and everything isn't just good or bad, but I didn't say anything about that.

If a movie comes out, I either go see it or I don't go see. You either make a bullshit argument or you don't (you did btw). The world isn't all absolutes, but saying nothing is yes or no is factually incorrect.

The fact is I do want what is best for our nation and it's not what the large corporations ran by billionaires want. Yea, I side with that anon on one part of an issue. You made some shit up about how agreeing with someone is what is wrong with America.

>>58887504
>You really think you make friends and convince people that way?

Why do Trump supporters always think our jobs are to go around "supporting the team" of whatever binary mainstream political affiliation we happen to be closer to. Im not pushing any agenda, I just made a series of observations. Youre right that they arent "politically correct".

It so happens that I work in IT and I see a LOT of fucking incompetants and a LOT of them dont blame themselves. I recently put myself on Linkedin and got literally hundreds of offers from recruiters. The market is desperate for IT people who can actually handle their shit. I am sick of people blaming the "brown people" while I have to carry my useless coworkers all day long.

>hurr if I call him poojet enough it will hide the fact that I don't have an argument
why is /pol/ so consistently awful?

Nevermind that /pol/ has become everything they hate -- they're literally asking for GIBSMEDATS and money fo dem goverment programs to help fat American retards get jobs they're not qualified for.

>>58883953
>That's just not a lifestyle women find attractive.
You think this because you can't get laid. Seriously. I'm a girl and I grew up playing Elite and designing rocket engines in my head. I now design them full time for SpaceX.

>>58882439
>and they also are more loyal to the company.

also helps that when you fire them the H1B goes away and they get deported.

it's like modern day slavery

>>58887520
It costs nothing? You clearly don't work in industry. It's literally 10k out the door to hire an Indian. Smaller firms don't even consider it because they don't have the resources. The only way you can save money is by drastically underpaying them, a practice that is reflective of an abusive company (lets not pretend Intel doesn't have a massive history of illegal practices), not a broken visa system or the evil "pajeet".

>>58887297
>Older people

And the youth don't exist to take their place, work these new jobs, or create new ones?

>>58882356
Maybe pajeet gets the job because he works harder than you.

>>58887564
that's why india is an african tier shithole, because of all the hard working poojeets?

>>58887422
>>58887339
>>58887457
You should see how agriculture migrant workers live. It's basically a dorm.

The whole documentary shows more of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg3WFt72RM8

>>58887752
It's a country of 1.1 billion people, the people that can afford to immigrate to the US are usually from upper-class families, 120+ IQ and hard working.

source: friends with a guy who came here from India to study CS

>>58887673
I'm a C/C++/Python dev in a small sector at a company that doesn't do H1B.

To the companies that do use the program $10k is nothing, especially considering how much return they will get for underpaying and overworking the employee.

My point exactly about Intel. These companies aren't innocent in the slightest, so to think they would abuse the program for their benefit isn't unheard of.

Also I never used pajeet, Raj, etc. I'm black myself and wouldn't degrade someone based on race

>>58887532
>You are saying they work harder than Americans

Have you seen what work they do? I haven't. We don't know how good or sloppy it is or if it even works.

If these workers were so good, surely there are companies in India that would try to keep them.

>>58887532
there's no need to open up immigration though, there are plenty of people already here with the skills or willing to attain the skills if companies would hire them instead of importing labor

>>58882376
Day of the toilet is coming.

>>58887802
>Also I never used pajeet, Raj, etc. I'm black myself and wouldn't degrade someone based on race

Unless their name really is Pajeet or Raj

>>58887827
>willing to attain the skills if companies would hire them
kek, you're literally admitting that companies should hire unqualified Americans and hope it works out for the best

>>58887827
Cut benefits in half and see how much work people are ready to do, rather see how much they'll protest and whine.

>>58887645
If real, man, that's awesome. Hats off to you.

I have a feeling that within the next 20 years, as the post-2005 era generation (where technology/games/computers are ubiquitous and much more unisex) begins to enter college and the workforce, we'll see a wave of skilled female workers entering the tech work force

>>58885365
>And not going to grad school for US citizens is a logical choice as they make only marginally less than PhDs which is no big deal if you spend the time you'd spend in grad school actually gaining experience.
it's not only that. grad school is as close to slavery as you can get for an american. you get paid less than minimum wage for an average of 5 years, you're expected to be in the lab all day, you have absolutely no benefits/time off, and on top of that you're 100% reliant on your adviser as to when you graduate. if they want to keep you for an extra year or two you can't do shit about it. then if you actually graduate, you can't compete for the same jobs as your peers from undergrad because you have 0 industry experience. the jobs you qualify for will likely pay as much, if not less, than what you would make with a bachelors plus 5 years of experience. except in that case you actually make a real wage for 5 years instead of less than minimum wage.

going into a phd program has been the biggest regret of my life. i'm in my 4th year now, and if i don't finish in 5 i'll most likely drop out. you can only waste so much of your time.

>>58887846
Once upon a time, before abusing visas and demand was needed, companies actually hired trained new employees.

>>58882376
Cuck detected

>>58887846
no, they should sponsor americans to college just like they do with pajeet

>>58887850
that's the point I'm making anon, h1b means employers can put their imported employees into sweatshop conditions and no one's willing to stand up and say I deserve better

>>58887880
*when demand was high
*trained newly hired employees

Fuck that one up.

>>58887880
Companies are still willing to train, you just have to prove you're worth it. Why should I waste money "training" you if you've shown no initiative on your own?

>>58887802
>I'm black myself and wouldn't degrade someone based on race
You're a pajeet except hired to fill a quota.

>>58882356
>It's absolutely ridiculous hard working Americans are being pushed out of the tech industry
No, that's because most americans are dumb sacks of shit who lead Facebook lives. All the smart americans are concentrated in various universities and actually drive the technology forward, the rest is basically drooling idiots dumbed by consumerism and the internet, which is why companies hire non-americans, hell even most tech companies are non-americans, either russian or jewish.

>>58887895
>no one's willing to stand up and say I deserve better
You don't deserve anything you millennial faggot. You aren't entitled to anything.

>>58887910
Makes you wonder how they decide on which Indians to bring over.

I know /pol/ discusses it a lot about Chinese and Indians cheating and lying on everything. I think someone posted a 10 page resume which was basically an outline for a CS degree.

>>58887951
>I know /pol/ discusses it a lot
You have to go back.

>>>/pol/

>>58887932
wrong, people are entitled to a liveable wage and humane working conditions you fucking robber baron

>>58887912
Except it's a private company in Texas and the owner would probably call me boy and nigger if he could

>>58887963
Nobody is entitled to anything.

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>>58887963
>people are entitled to money from you regardless of their skill or aptitude!

>>58887962
I'm actually from Reddit.

>>58887963
You aren't entitled to shit you lazy millennial faggot. A wage is earned.

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>>58884363
dont worry, by not spending time on subjects like evolution the kids will have more time to focus on stem :---DDDdd

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>>58882376
I'm American, how do I break the lazy/stupid stereotype? I want jobs.

>>58887963
>oh no my boss asked me to stay late to finish this project that's due to ship in a week
>these working conditions are truly inhumane, I'm only paid 120k for this as well :(
Grow up loser.

>>58887981
that's 1900's sweatshop textile manufacturer thinking

>>58887982
that's not what I said anon, but there is a minimum standard to which employers must be and are held to, i.e. minimum wage. but import pajeet to work for you and you can give him a salary that's the same as everyone else on paper but demand so much more from him because he has no recourse that doesn't get him deported

>>58888009
I'm talking about workers not bums fucktard

>>58888042
staying late once in a while to meet a deadline is not the same as constantly demanding ridiculous amounts of overtime for no extra benefit to the worker because they can either do what their told or be deported

>>58887204
>everything I don't like is bait
Sad!

>>58888069
>I'm talking about workers not bums fucktard
It still applies. You aren't entitled to my money you fucking leech.

If I don't want to hire you because you're lazy and don't have the required skills for the position, that's YOUR problem.

>>58888069
>that's 1900's sweatshop textile manufacturer thinking
That's any current year's time thinking. By default nobody owes you anything, at all. Fucking nothing.

>>58888081
the current state of alternative energy is a fucking joke, that's why there's pretty much no large scale useage outside of geothermal

>>58888096
yeah but once you do hire me, then I am entitled to and you are forced by law to give me a minimum amount of pay in exchange for my labor/services

>>58888103
anti union shill detected

>>58888119
>then I am entitled to and you are forced by law to give me a minimum amount of pay in exchange for my labor/services
Yes, it's called your salary. If you don't like the hours or having to stay late to finish projects, you're welcome to quit you fucking lazy piece of shit millennial.

>>58888131
>thinking Trump supports trade unions
DELUSIONAL

>>58888153
yes, I am welcome to fucking quit, pajeet is not because quitting gets him deported back to his shithole. I'm also unlike pajeet entitled to sue you for for demanding a ridiulous number of hours in exchange for the same base salary which is negotiated and agreed upon as based on a forty hour work week

>>58888193
The sad part is that current laws allow companies to work programmers for over 40 hours a week without paying overtime

>>58888131
This has nothing to do with fucking unions or any other bullshit. By default, not a single human owes anything to another human. It's simple as that, it's the universal law. Any social construct built on top of that always comes crashing down and then you're left with the harsh reality, the universal law.

>>58888193
>BAWWWW IM ENTITLED TO SUE YOU
But you aren't entitled to win my friend ;)

80 hour work weeks are not uncommon in some industries (banking, medical residency) What makes you think you're a special snowflake entitled to 30 hours and a high salary? Oh right, you're a lazy millennial.

>>58887259
Public schoola have been dominated by the progressive left since the 60s. It started with busing has continued with endless nonsense. Their social engineering has done things like remove the black man from the home and textbooks/homework from the students. In my district Presidents day is not even recognized, and the marxist teachers unions cry about classroom size when in reality anyone that is able pulls their kids out as soon as the blacks take over a decent district via the gibs temper tantrum.

They have money for africentric schools, ESL schools, and other lefty nonsense. But ask why the computers (REEEEEE we need technology in the classroom vote for the levy!!!) aren't used to teach HTML and foreign language and you will get a ride from the men in the white coats.

>>58888193
By the way most employment contracts stipulate that salary is contingent on duties, not a "40 hour work week" so any judge will laugh your faggoty millennial lawsuit out of court. Shit, judges themselves work 60 hours a week.

>>58885608

most kids want to be a marketer or investment banker

not even memeing

>>58888323
>In my district Presidents day is not even recognized
Nice try at bullshit anon, but it's a federal holiday.

>>58888384
Isn't MLK day a Federal holiday but not recognized in some states?

>>58888408
No, sounds like bullshit.

>>58888470
I'm in Houston and we worked on MLK day. All salaried devs

>>58888470
I guess it was passed in 1986 but not recognized by all states until 2000.

Four states still don't recognize Columbus Day, with two of those states calling it something else.

>>58888493
Aren't you supposed to be paid extra if you work on a federal holiday?

ITT: why we have labor laws

>>58882376
phajeets are generally terrible workers and have no idea how to do anything unless you lay everything out step-by-step in such a way that a 2 year old could do it. pajeets get hired because they're willing to work for less pay and willing to put in 60 hour work weeks.

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H1B is a fucking waste of time even for a foreigner. Only dumb fuck take this devilish deal, no wonder it's full of fucking curry eating pajeets.

Developing countries usually have a dirty cheap cost of living, take my country for example: Brazil.

It's far from perfect, yes, it's a joke of a country and in some places it can be a real, disgusting shithole. BUT, but, for only 1k dollar, I can rent the best apartment on one of the top and safest neighborhood in my city, this includes everything: rent, food for a month (best brands), optic fiber unlimited internet, cable TV, beer, hangouts and yadda yadda. Only for one grand, this is all I spend.

Instead of wasting my time moving to a developed country where is more expensive to live, I do the opposite: I work remote for american companies. Because of my line of work in tech, I don't even need to be in the company. And usually I get paid the same wage an american does, maybe a couple of grands less.

Started doing this 3 years ago, with 50k/year, now I'm making almost 80k as I got more experience and meet new contacts. Saved enough money to be a millionaire in my country standards and welp, bought a house, a car and everything.

The point is, why would I take an h1b contract (I've received such options in the past) and live like shit in america (and be treated like shit by trump supporters rednecks) if I can stay in my country and live like a goddamn fucking king of the jungle?

>>58888576
Yeah okay I'd rather not live in Brazil though.

Have fun in your favela.

>>58882957
>redditspacing
>>>/reddit/

>>58888519
I have no clue. I didn't hear about that. The way I understand is that only federal employees are guaranteed federal holidays, hence the name.

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>>58888598

This is where you're wrong, my weak minded shitposter.
I do not live in a favela. I live in a city called campos do jordão where the streets look like this at the night, I've never been to a favela my whole life, because Brazil is a fucking huge country and I know better to avoid it's shitty parts. Just like america, and this might blow your greassy sperg-o-burger brain, there are shitty places, okay places and great places to be.

>>58887617
This is ironic because what you've ``observed'' isn't because of the people involved at all.
This is a failure of the educational system. When one person is incompetent, it's because they are incompetent. When an entire department is incompetent, it's because something is horribly wrong.
In this case it's because the organizations that teach IT don't do a very good job of it, as the only thing they care about is collecting tuition. It's hard to see the quality of an educational program until after you get it, after all.
Organizations that hire the people who come out of these programs evidently don't filter well enough. It's either because they themselves are incompetent (as a result of not being able to find competent IT staff), or because they realize the problem and have no choice but to hire incompetent staff and hope to train them to become competent later.

tl;dr businesses eat the cost of the parasitic educational system, especially in IT.

>>58888821
I personally blame company incentive to move jobs over seas

Hiring a pajeet in india is way cheaper than hiring an american

an american wants a job with a good salary, benefits, safe working conditions, good HR support, labor laws to protect him

A pajeet? All he wants is a "pay" it doesn't even have to be good. Its why its so fucking annoying to call up Dell Customer Support and get a guy who barely speaks english and can't even fucking help you with your problem because he doesn't understand it. There are so many of these fuckers (over 2 billion between india and china) that any company can just chew these fuckers up and spit them out if they don't perform. Its a huge abuse on global markets and draining economies that can't have those kinds of benefits to just hire foreign people to do an american job otherwise

>>58888813
> I live in a city called campos do jordão
Sounds like a favela to me.

>>58888888

Fucking ameriburgers of clapistan kys already

>>58888564
Keep telling yourself that when life time unemployed autists on this board will work for half the price of an average pajeet in the bay area but still can't find work. Guess why? Because they can't do the job. Oops.

>>58889141
*BRRRRRAAAAAPPPP*

>>58888576
Me ensine senpai

>>58888384
Sigh. I come here to discuss things and learn, not bullshit.
http://www.ccsoh.us/Calendars.aspx