Since /pol/ love this Pajeet for getting rid of Net Neutrality,

Mandatory spyware will be mandatory on all computers.

The internet is doomed to be a hive of censorship and propaganda one way or the other and you're stupid if you think some meme movement like Net Neutrality would stop it.

Net Neutrality timeline:
>people don't want corporations to censor content/resell free content as part of bullshit bundles
>corporations bankroll almost every elected member of our government
>people want to solve first memearrow by expanding government control over the internet to stop the evil corporations
>corporate-backed politicians now in charge of regulating the internet

No Net Neutrality timeline:
>people don't want corporations to censor content/resell free content as part of bullshit bundles
>corporations bankroll almost every elected member of our government
>corporate-backed politicians now in charge of regulating the internet

Net Neutrality is a gigantic text that mostly focuses on making competition between ISPs impossible, and only a tiny part of it is the good "don't discriminate traffic". Other countries don't have Net Neutrality and Internet access works just fine for their citizens.

>>58748291
But he hasn't done anything yet.

Sage

Encryption banned when? I can't wait to see the look on the dumb fucking encryptards' faces lmao.

>>58748710
Why? What do you have against encryption?

You guys are overfocusing on net neutrality and ignoring the alarming fact this guy is an anti-privacy hawk. He opposed regulation against ISPs tracking customers.

Remember when everyone on the internet was for net neutrality?

What happened?

>>58748720
Got something to hide, Ahmed?

>>58748792
Yes, what about it?

>>58748786
Net neutrality came and people got comfy and forgot about the problem, they forgot how shitty things were before.

That's how anti-regulationism always makes its away into people's minds: things get better and people forget about the original problem and start thinking retrogradely.

>>58748786
People online started worshiping trump for some reason, so no matter what he does they agree.

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>>58748786

i wonder what happened

>>58748367
Other countries don't have ISP monopolies and have other laws, usually written very clearly and publicly, regarding how businesses are not allowed to fuck consumers. Comcast would have been shut down a decade ago if they were operating in the EU.

>>58748860
>people online
Nah, only a couple of cringe communities like this cesspool. Most netizens absolutely abhor the troll.

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>>58748325
>>58748367
>>58748710
>>58748792
>"basket of deplorables"

mfw Hillary was right

>>58748865
Fucking gamergate was so retarded. Why did we let Twitter wars come here?

>>58748918
She wasn't right, but Trumpanzees are subhumans. A war with Russians is more appealing (because I'm exempt from service even during a draft) than Drumpf.

Here's to hoping he gets impeached by Congress and Mike Pence gets assassinated.

>>58748965
We're getting war anyway, except with Iran instead of Russia. The difference is, Iran did nothing wrong, whereas a number of Eastern European countries are under Russian occupation.

>>58748985
It's weird how Iran is always somehow our enemy in the Middle East. As far as Muslim fundamentalists go, they seem relatively chill.

>>58749033
It's not weird when you realize our government is infested with zionists.

>>58748918
>>58748965
>>58748865
>>58748786
>>58748860
>>58748890

>mfw libshits are too stupid to even understand a simple argument and thinks everyone thinks like they do
Answe this, faggots >>58748325

>>58749033
Iran is shia muslim, sunni muslims despise shia. Guess who's best buddies with USA because of their oil? Saudi Arabia, who are sunni.

>>58749085
>answer my unfalsifiable defeatist argument
You've already accepted that it's hopeless, so why would I bother indulging you?

>>58749107
>You've already accepted that it's hopeless
Not really theres a really simple solution that you should be looking at: open up the ISP market to most anyone and deregulate it

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>>58749085
Here's the answer, you sophist. Now stop begging for (you)s.

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>>58749120

>le free the market meme

Because that did so well for our energy market, right?

>>58749134
You mean freeing the market on the oil oligarchy, when I'm suggesting lowering the barriers of entry to the ISP market and then deregulating it? Not to mention the energy market is always going to have high barriers to entry due to the equipment involved to get energy, meanwhile you can et the equipment you need to start an ISP in a startup. So your comparing apples to oranges really.

>>58749125
Where in the world is your argument?

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>>58749120
>muh free market
Doesn't work. The "free market" is what resulted in this monopoly farce we have, as well as the reason for said monopolies being able to bribe politicians into enacting legislation making new ISPs effectively illegal.

Free market capitalism does not fucking work in favor of the little guy. I thought you goyim would understand this by now. Remember pic related? Remember how the only reason you weren't pic related at his age was because of unions? Yet for some reason Trumpanzees despise unions and welcome assfucking with open arms.

>>58748786
Everyone on the internet except 4chan still wants net neutrality. 4chan changed when Trump came out against net neutrality. You never leave 4chan so you wouldn't know.

>>58749120

Thanks for supplying an ideological pseudo-solution to a technical problem, you useful idiot.

Now here's the reality of the facts that you ignore because you're so blinded by rhetoric:

>As our readers know, the telecom market suffers painfully from limited competition, resulting in some of the highest broadband prices in the developed world (OECD data) and some of the worst customer service in any sector.

>And while deregulation can be a useful tool in healthy, functional markets that truly suffer from government over-reach, in the telecom sector (where incumbent ISP think tankers like Eisenach have polluted intelligent discourse) deregulation has an entirely different meaning. For most of these folks, deregulation quite literally means letting giant duopolists quite literally write telecom law. In telecom, we've discussed how this form of deregulation (time and time and time again) only makes the already broken telecom market worse for consumers and innovation.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20161122/05283036104/trump-formally-picks-two-net-neutrality-opponents-to-head-fcc-transition.shtml
http://www.oecd.org/sti/broadband/oecdbroadbandportal.htm
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160602/09123534603/study-shows-comcast-sucks-just-tiny-bit-less-this-year.shtml
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160204/05121433515/states-wake-up-realize-att-lobbyists-have-been-writing-awful-protectionist-state-broadband-laws.shtml
http://testinternetspeed.org/blog/us-broadband-prices-soar-above-global-averages/
https://www.techdirt.com/blog/netneutrality/articles/20150213/08410030017/former-fcc-boss-turned-top-cable-lobbyist-michael-powell-blames-everyone-himself-current-net-neutrality-mess.shtml
http://www.sfgate.com/technology/dotcommentary/article/AT-amp-T-rates-skyrocket-since-deregulation-4204388.php

>>58749159
>>58749120

Here's more for you:

>It took two years for security researchers to even discover what Verizon and its marketing partners were up to. It took another six months of heavy public shaming before Verizon was even willing to provide working opt-out tools. At no point did industry, or any of its self-regulatory apparatuses, stop and think they'd taken things a bit too far, which is why the FCC, agree or not, felt it was necessary to lend consumers a hand.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170104/10021436408/ad-industry-wants-new-fcc-broadband-privacy-rules-gutted-because-uh-free-speech.shtml

>>58749159
>Where in the world is your argument?
The solution isn't blind deregulation, it's separation of corporation and state. It solves the situation you described.

>your comparing apples to oranges really
No I'm not, you obviously know jack shit about telecom: there is a massively high barrier to entry the market. Laying fiberoptics isn't cheap, anon.

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Love it.

ISPs own their networks. They can negotiate with 3rd parties on how they get to use their networks. YouTube, Netflix, etc. have no right to demand usage on their networks. They clog them up and cause problems. They should, and have, paid for access or caching servers on ISP networks to connect to their customers.

Customers pay for access to their networks, and their networks are generally agnostic. Know what will keep them that way and competitive? FUCKING FREE MARKET COMPETITION.

GET RID OF YOUR FUCKING MUNICIPAL AND STATE MONOPOLY CHARTERS FOR ISPS

>>58749120
>le free market utopia

>>58749159
>you can et the equipment you need to start an ISP in a startup
Not really, especially if existing ISPs can tell you to go fuck yourself if you want to connect to their network infrastructure(which they can in an unregulated market).

>>58749167

There has never been a free market monopoly in history. Understand the definition of a monopoly. Some businesses have owned significant shares of a market in a free market, but they got there by supply the best good or service for the best price.

Standard oil had rock bottom prices. Customers enjoyed cheap oil. Know who was pissed and lobbied the gov to break it up? Smaller, less efficient businesses.

>>58749205

Oh look, it's the "netflix is the evil one, it's hurting the poor multi-billionaire ISPs! it's not the ISPs hurting the little customers guys, trust me, ISPs are our friends!" retard again.

>>58749216
>there has never been a free market monopoly
Stopped reading here.

>>58749205
>free market shills

>>58749216
>there has never been a free market monopoly
How to tell you're arguing with an irrational ideologue who ignores facts and shapes reality to his thinking.

That's either the result of dumb idiocy that turns you into an useful idiot or being a paid shill.

>le free market = deregulated market meme

When will this meme die?

Since when is a market free from government but slave to corporations "free"?

If you really wanted a free market, you wouldn't defend that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1PtStipIsc

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>>58749224

You own a private toll road. You want to charge the shipping companies that clog up your highways more to pay for their greater usage on your road.

Well, the shipping companies don't want to pay more. They lobby the gov to force you to let them run free on your toll road.

Now all the regular commuters have a worse commute, the road isn't maintained as well, and the toll road owner has a monopoly charter to be the only road in the area.

What incentive does the toll road owner have to improve their toll road?

>>58749280
Those are corporate shills, my friend.

>>58749205
The day YouTube and Netflix start hijacking my DNS queries like most ISPs do, then we talk okay?

>>58749301
>private toll road
Found the problem!

>>58749280

Corporations are a product of government. Fuck em. Fuck the government.

A free market without state-sponsored limited liability and legal protections means people that organize businesses would have to compete on a more even playing field.

>>58749315

This. The problem is private corporations owning the Internet.

The Internet should be public and state-run.

>>58749315

They have a monopoly charter. What are you going to do about it? Lobby the gov to force them to let all the congestion through?

Sounds brilliant. Why would we want to disrupt the wonderful monopoly rent-seeking going on?

>>58749167
>your pic related
More of an issue with the economical paradigm changing from agrarian to industrial rather than a political one - USSR, for example, had terrible conditions during their industrialization period as well, despite extensive state oversight. A similar change also happened earlier when people went from hunter-gatherers to farmers - those early farmers didn't exactly live the good life even though agriculture eventually allowed for a far greater standard of living and a fairly stable society. And another similar period of misery is yet to come as almost every job will eventually be automated and economy is forced to adapt to the new order. I guarantee there will be growing pains in the near future(maybe a century or so) as people start to realize they are no longer useful, or needed, in almost any way.

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>>58749328

Because central planning works so fucking well.

>>58749301
>private toll road
Internet is a public utility. Your example would be more apt if you used another public utility, like electricity.
>own the rights to supply energy to people
>people keep installing products that use lots of energy
>want to charge people different rates depending on the device or appliance used
>government tells you to fuck right off
>realize you're an idiot

>>58749317
By more level playing field you mean businesses would be paying to sabotage other businesses and providing the bare minimum of service once they've eliminated all competition, right?

You fucks are as dumb as the ancaps that think "charity" would pay for roads and hospitals.

>>58749305

Because that's not an easy work-around.

It doesn't harm anyone. It allows the ISPs another method of making some extra money. If it was a real problem, customers would be outraged. Most don't know and don't care. You're the tiny minority.

>>58749301

More like:

>own private road
>own shipping company too
>other competing shipping companies use your road because it's the only one that provides access to certain customers - you have a monopoly on roads in a certain location
>you don't like their competition
>so you wanna charge them extra for using your road in order to achieve a monopoly on shipping as well

>>58749353

>Because roads aren't considered some faggoty statist meme up the wazoo

>Because governments manipulating markets never go wrong

>>58749345

Well, why are you defending big centralized fucking corporations then, you fucking shill?

>>58749373

Yeah, so the obvious fucking answer is get rid of monopoly charters. Not MORE fucking gov regulation on markets.

Do you people even fucking see what you're typing?

>>58749379
Governments have a much better track record of protecting the consumer than le free market corporations do.

>>58749379
>governments manipulating markets sometimes go wrong
>so let's completely ban it even when it could be beneficial
Totally unregulated markets go wrong too - the key is achieving the perfect balance. Not outright disregarding a perfectly fine possibility.

You're not being rational, you're being ideological.

>>58749381

I don't defend corporations. I'm an AnCap. Corporations are one with statism.

I defend private property and to do w/e the fuck you want with your own property. If you want to sell goods and services, you don't get special rent-seeking privileges. You have to compete on quality and price. May the best man win.

>>58749398

Governments regulating markets means winners and losers are chosen by some central planner. Gov regulation ALWAYS leads to winners and losers at some level. The answer is to stay the fuck out of the markets and not give people monopoly.

>>58749389

You're reversing cause and consequence. We don't have monopoly charters because the government regulates markets, the government regulates markets because of monopoly charters. We didn't always have regulation, at one point it became necessary. See >>58748819

Take for example this issue >>58748771 >>58749181, the privacy issue (which you are conveniently ignoring). The problem arose and then regulation came up to try to solve it.

Now, that regulation is gonna get gutted and ISPs are going to be free to track you. Enjoy.

The true solution to make government stop helping corporations is not banning regulations, but banning lobbying. We need separation of corporation and state.

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>>58749409
>I'm an AnCap

>>58749337
The fact that unionization was able to outlaw child labor and force corporations into turning their deathtrap factories into relatively safe working environments DURING the industrial revolution is evidence enough that it could be done, but without state oversight it takes a lot of misery and death to force corporations into being reasonable. It's exactly the same case here. Relatively free internet market ends up getting taken over by a few megacorps, they pay for legislation to ensure there can't be any competition, and then they do the bare minimum, because they know that the only choices you have are no internet or their internet.

There are two solutions: prevent corporations from bribing politicians (impossible) or prevent corporations from fucking the consumer and monopolizing (very possible).

>>58749424

Governments not regulating markets means winners and losers are chosen by some unelected multi-billionaire moguls instead of by elected representatives of the people.

>>58749409
>may the best man win
More like "may the best hitmen and saboteurs win."

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>>58749409

>I'm an unironical capitalist

Hey, if you love capitalism so much, then why aren't you working 14 hours a day alongside your wife and kids in a sweatshop factory?

It's very easy liking capitalism after all the improvements that socialist unions and progressivism brought into it.

I hope you enjoy all the Pajeets capitalism is bringing in to replace you for less than minimum wage too.

Isn't capitalism just so fucking great?

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>>58749436

Oh no, the ISPs will track you and figure out that you like buying weeaboo trash on Amazon. Now they'll target weeaboo trash ads to you! THE HORROR!

That's the difference between a private company watching your habits and the gov.

Things were not bad before net neutrality. Are you on crack? If anything, virtually nothing changed. The FCC hasn't even flexed their fucking muscles on their new regulatory powers.

You're a complete naive fool. if you think there was ever government structure in the history of humanity that was without "lobbying" and persuasion from wealth. Money and gov go together like hippies and weed.

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>>58749480

>Things were not bad before net neutrality.

Damn, confirmed shill. Completely ignored from now on.

>>58749424
Wrong. It means that the government is rewriting the rules of the game to promote a more ideal situation. Even your ancap society relies on some very lax rules that obviously lead to non ideal situations and fuck some people over while promoting others. Regulations mean imposing more rules to change how the game is played. It's seen everywhere in games be it video or sports. Basketball isn't just do whatever but the ball is supposed to find itself in the hoop, basketball rules evolved into a form to provide more entertainment.

>>58749480
>If anything, virtually nothing changed.
Because "muh deregulation" right-wingers won't let the FCC enforce its own rules:

https://www.techdirt.com/blog/netneutrality/articles/20170112/04595136467/fcc-report-clearly-says-att-verizon-are-violating-net-neutrality-nobody-is-going-to-do-damn-thing-about-it.shtml

>>58749455

The state comes in after the fact and claims responsibility for things the market is already solving. Child labor and working conditions had already been improving for many years prior to them making a stupid fucking law.

In fact, the regulations fuck over society. In Bangladesh they outlawed child labor and it did nothing but increase child prostitution and theft. Child labor naturally goes away when economic conditions are right. Society values education children over the value of their labor when conditions improve.

For example, OSHA was enacted in the middle of the 20th century. The rate of workplace accidents declined no more quickly than it already had been after that fact.

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>>58749480
>"You're a complete naive fool."
>and the irony of that statement was completely lost

>>58749480
>completely downplaying the privacy issue like that
What are you even doing on /g/ if you're an anti-encryption autist?

>>58749436
>We don't have monopoly charters because the government regulates markets, the government regulates markets because of monopoly charters.
Am I missing something here or are you completely off the rails with this sentence? Natural monopolies don't exist, because they also require a natural monopsony (which is impossible to maintain). Monopolies are only formed through government intervention. The government thinks they can pick winners and losers better than the natural economy, so they treat certain companies differently, resulting in a monopoly.

The rule of thumb is this, the more inclusive something is, the more shitty it becomes. Always and without fail. Everything that is non-essential to human life, every hobby, every pastime, should be gated by a learning curve and a community unforgiving to newcomers. The internet is far worse than it was in the early 2000's. It stands to get even worse than what we have now.

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Economic illiterates everywhere

>>58749480
tryhard

>>58749507
>in a poverty ridden shithole the powerless government wasn't able to do anything
Wow. Really comparable to first world nations.
>OSHA is worthless
I can tell you've never worked a day in your life.

>>58749514

Yeah, no one has interest in dispute resolution, security, or property management. Who would bother with providing such services? It's not like there are multiple times more private security persons or arbitration facilities out there compared to their public counterparts. Oh, wait...

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>>58749480
> Things were not bad before net neutrality.
> not bad

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>>58749541

>Ignore statistics and evidence because you meme so hard for government to fuck your tight boi pussi

>>58749470
lol stupid commie.

Neither pure communism nor pure socialism is ideal. Balance nigger!

>>58749522

Who says I'm against encryption? Fuck the gov pretending they can control that shit. I'm against government regulating markets, because they pick winners and losers and we all suffer in the end due to lack of competition, innovation, and lower prices for better goods and services.

>>58749565
>ignoring evidence
>ignoring evidence
>ignoring evidence
Wow. Just, wow.

Nevermind that you completely ignored these >>58749172 >>58749181 >>58749505

>>58749470
Child labor was necessary so people could actually eat and clothe themselves though. It still happens today and is necessary. Only when enough wealth was acquired did the countries outlaw child labor as it wasn't as necessary anymore to uplift the populace.

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>>58749606
>child labor was necessary

>>58749578
Do retards like you just not live in reality or what? By what mechanism does le free market utopia prevent corporations from monopolizing? From taking advantage of the free market until they monopolize, and then "lobbying" until they have a legal backing for an unbreakable monopoly?

There isn't one. Free markets just leave the monopolization and employee/costumer fucking up to Jews instead of elected officials.

>>58749605

Do you even read the shit you post?

>As our readers know, the telecom market suffers painfully from limited competition,

HMMM I WONDER WHY THE SUFFER FROM LACK OF COMPETITION. IT COULDN'T BE MONOPOLY CHARTERS. MORE REGULATION! FUCK ME IN THE ASS BIG DADDY GOV!

But you're right. There are no startups out there trying to compete. Established ISPs definitely aren't lobbying state and city governments to keep out competition all over the US. Oh, shit, wait...

>>58749578
>lack of competition, innovation, and lower prices for better goods and services
You're thinking of capitalism, that's what happens when nobody keeps corporations in check: they suppress competitors and small businesses, squash innovation and overcharge you.

Geez, you're unironically defending monopolistic ISPs who overcharge for shitty cable and attacking Netflix and Youtube, who have plenty of competition (Amazon Prime, Hulu, etc.) and who charge pennies.

I hope you're satire. You better be.

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>>58749614
>doesn't know what's going on
>doubles down

>>58749614

Child labor was absolutely necessary. You don't fucking understand basic economics and you sit there with a smirk on your face as you type out the retarded shit you post here on /g/

You're the type of faggot that thinks he's helping the world by pouring aid money and goods into impoverished markets because MUH FEELS

>>58749641
Fuck off, you were unironically rationalizing child labour.

>>58749640
It's almost like... you need both government and markets... really makes you think.

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>>58749648
>muh basic economics
>says the guy that doesn't understand the need for government interference in order to balance monopolistic and monopsonistic markets

>>58749615

Because companies can continue to exist without gov protection and just fuck everyone. Because I know when I go to McD's I like them kicking me in the dick and just stealing my money. I'll definitely go back and patronize them again tomorrow!

Herp derp

>>58749606
Except child labor wasn't necessary once the depression was over, but it stuck around because paying for things you don't have to, like adults instead of children, is bad for the bottom line.

Notice how there wasn't some mass closure and bankruptcy of businesses once child labor was outlawed? No, you probably didn't notice that because history is irrelevant to your fanfiction.

>>58749648

Cool! Love your rationalizing skills!

Now do it with brutal murder and rape!

>>58749650
You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Child labor was necessary. Would you have rather let the children die and families die? Who's the monster here? Not me, I can assure you. I'd encourage you to delve a bit deeper into some relevant books around history and economics.

>>58749455
>There are two solutions: prevent corporations from bribing politicians (impossible) or prevent corporations from fucking the consumer and monopolizing (very possible).
>prevent corporations from bribing politicians (impossible)
>prevent corporations from fucking the consumer and monopolizing (very possible).
>impossible
>possible
Which is it? If politicians are being bribed by ISPs then they aren't going to enact legislature that prevents them from monopolizing. If anything, the solution is to cut off the source of the problem(corrupt politicians), and the only way I can see that happening is by strictly restricting lobbying. Something that here in Europe is already reality - some politician gets found out receiving a payoff or misusing government funds, their name is run through the mud and they may even face criminal charges if they dont resign. A Finnish prime minister had to resign after receiving a bunch of wooden boards for building a house for free. In Sweden, a minister resigned after using taxpayer funds to buy a single bar of Toblerone chocolate. Strict, but fair.

>>58749666
>because companies can continue to exist without gov protection
They literally can, and they do so most effectively in a free market because it's the easiest market to engage in anticompetitive practices.

>>58749650

Child labor is rational, dipshit. What do you think farm hands are? Why do you think agrarian societies have 20 fucking kids? Because it's nice to have more mouths to feed? It's because it's economic and literal suicide not to have more people working together when you have so little.

When workers improve output with technology and standards of living increase, people work less hours, work easier jobs, and children are seen better sent to schooling than the fields or factories.

>>58749681

Nice fallacy cop-out. You have no real retort. You've been brainwashed by economic illiterates to just barf out "CHILD LABOR BAAAAADDD."

No one wants their fucking kids to have to labor, but economics dictates they must for a time until the standards of living improve with technology over time.

The west had an industrial revolution, and the east has gone through theirs.

Expect there to be monopolizes on internet infrastructure and much more data caps.
Free websites are only approved by the government and websites they don't approve of will be left to the isps to charge for them to use them.

Remember to ignore blind Drumpf shills
There is no logic or reasoning to their posts their master can do no wrong.

>>58749689
>impossible
No, it doesn't need to never ever happen, there indeed will be some crime someone gets away with. But it needs to be criminal too, eh.

>>58749694

Corporations cannot exist without a state. Businesses could exist.

You failed to even comment on the crux of my argument. Of course, you have no real retort.

>>58749732
>corporations cannot exist without a state
Are you retarded?

>>58749682
I'm sure the well-being of the children and families was your primary and utmost concern, oh big factory owner.

Nevermind the poor and unsafe work conditions they were put in and the fact the bosses were making more money than they could possibly spend in an entire lifetime.

>>58749722
>But it needs to be criminal
No shit? That's my whole point. Don't know where you're from(Canada, eh?) but in USA it seems bribery is almost legal with the way they tolerate lobbying.

>there are people unironically defending child labour ITT
Holy shit /g/, I didn't think you could do it but you really outdid yourself this time!

>>58749742

Please, do tell us how a corporation exists absent a state.

>>58749771

I'm glad we aren't run by technocrats, they lack any empathy whatsoever. /g/ reflects that.

>>58749775
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

>>58749668
Child labor is still around today although sparsely now due to illegal immigration. Internships are another avenue where children are employed or volunteering. Child labor sticks around when the lowest people on the economic ladder want to climb said ladder or survive. Bear in mind child labor was necessary to even get to wealth so we could even have it outlawed. Note the dates when it's outlawed and how many centuries or thousands of years it took before this happened.

My fanfiction luckily is what happened and not yours where you became some sort of monster akin to Mao or Stalin and had millions of people suffer and die. Thankfully most people aren't heartless monsters who enjoy killing children and watching women and men suffer.

>>58749790

I'm very familiar with AnCap, being one myself. Now I'm not sure if you're being a troll or if you are actually interested in discussing private law and business ownership in an AnCap society.

One can exist insofar as owners have paperwork from officiating private entities that manage such affairs. It can create a vessel of limited liability if dispute resolution and arbiters acknowledge such a system.

Otherwise, it doesn't hold the same standards of personhood like common law does in statist society today.

/g/ is pajeet, all of you are LGBT faggots and pajeets. You infested IT.

>>58749827
Did you think I was arguing that child labor didn't have to exist in the entirety of history? I was only arguing that child labor did not have to exist from the moment the depression ended to the moment it was outlawed. The only reason it did exist was because the free market isn't a utopia.

>>58749836
>businesses aren't business unless they have a piece of paper saying so
>corporations aren't corporations unless they're considered persons
So you ARE retarded.

>>58749159
>you can et the equipment you need to start an ISP in a startup
Even fucking google retracted from rolling out fiber to more cities

>>58749856
Didn't or couldn't. Should've or could've. The depression as a marker is a bad one since the government was already meddling with the market which caused the depression and others before/after it. It would likely still be in use today as a common means for new immigrants to climb our social and economic ladder themselves without government intervention.

>>58749898
>without government intervention
So you're agreeing that child labor post-depression was only due to a lack of regulation?

>>58749886
Why, though?
http://www.techrepublic.com/article/why-google-fiber-failed-5-reasons/
>2. Price
>From the start, Google Fiber cost $70 per month for the core fiber internet service, with an additional cost for television service. Now, the company has added a cheap, $50 per month option for 100 Mbps service. That low price is good for consumers, and somewhat necessary to win customers over from incumbents, but it doesn't make business sense.
Wat.

>>58749874

You can claim a corporation is whatever you want, but absent a state, unless other arbitrating bodies agree, you have no limited liability and are personally liable. There would be no entity to sue for recourse in cases of wronging.

>>58749930
I'm fine with saying government curtails child labor at present. Yes. There lies the problem though as primarily blacks and immigrants now cannot climb the economic ladder without the government intervention. Now when they drop out of school these people resort to negative societal behaviors. Instead they could have been working to improve their lives and now have no avenue or future.

>>58749987
>the only solution to poverty is child labor
instead of a social safety net that actually works like in other countries?
Or the ability to receive an education of worth for free, like in other countries?

>>58749969
>promotes failed ideologies
>projecting
All wrapped up in a nice bow

>>58749986
Ancaps don't believe in lawsuits over wrongdoing though.

>>58750011
All races that aren't white are privileged in The United States. Women are also a privileged gender as a whole. They all have access to free education healthcare and social safety nets. Why is almost every area with large concentrations of them always impoverished over multiple generations? Why do you support suppressing minorities? Why are you so sadistic? Is it race based? Gender? Please be specific.

>>58750083
>they all have access to free education healthcare and social safety nets
They don't.

>>58750011
>social safety net that actually works
A government can only do so much and be really effective about it. Ultimately it is up to people to fend for themselves.

>receive an education of worth for free
Minorities basically already can go through university and maybe even beyond in the US basically for free after scholarships and grants if they are qualified. If universities just start handing out degrees "for free" then the degrees will be worthless. Fucking Bernie Sanders-tier logic.

>>58750109
They actually do as well as housing. In fact anyone can usually partake in it but it's mostly reserved for minorities and women.

Try again perhaps?

>>58749969
>defending Josef fucking Stalin
I mean I know Trump winning has been devastating for liberals but this is some next level shit.

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>>58749120
>freemarketwillfixit

>>58750138
It's what happens when your ideology and political party is chock full of the unwashed uneducated masses. Low IQ strikes again. It's like they don't teach critical thinking in the schools anymore. There are other apparent holes in education nowadays too. They could just be a paid operation to shit up (astroturf) forums as well who knows.

>>58749033
Iran is the one nation over there who's population generally would like better, more open relations with the West. The government is very hardline fundamentalist, but the people by and large don't give a fuck about Islam. They see it as Arab culture and religion that has been forced on them. They see themselves as being Persian first, and Muslims a distant second. They would very much like to see their government overthrown and replaced with something more democratic, and secular. They are a people whom we could work with, and ultimately turn into a very strong ally. But their government will not willing go that route ever and other Muslim nations actively block any possibility of that happening too.

>>58748291
>every single thing President Trump has done so far has been to the benefit of American citizens
>still believing he would suddenly allow something that hurts American citizens

Haven't you learned your lesson yet about globalist-owned media writing articles about a patriotic nationalist like President Trump, and how there might be a conflict of interest there, and pushing an agenda for their owners? Fake news, once President Trump learns enough about the issue, he'll pick whatever helps us more, the American people.

>>58750133
It literally isn't available. Medicaid facilities are not even worth going to because of how poor they are, and it's basically impossible to get real testing like an MRI done. If you need to see any kind of medical professional other than a primary care physician, you're shit out of luck.
"Free education" doesn't exist outside of public high schools. Schools will not just give you free tuition because you're poor, and FAFSA loans and grants are relatively small compared to the cost of university.
Social Safety nets don't exist either. You can get Foodstamps, but what does it matter if you're homeless?

You don't understand how these things work, so why are you pretending to be an expert?

>>58750173
US public education has been completely co-opted by left-wing revisionist historians so it's not really surprising, I guess.

>>58750190
Healthcare is not a right.

>>58750206
This is the same kind of retard that receives medicaid but campaigns for it to be abolished. Every other first world nation recognizes the necessity of healthcare being accessible to everyone.

If you Amerilards just say fuck the poor and take away all healthcare from those who cannot pay, you will just be fucking yourselves when your hospitals are overrun with people seeking "emergency" care and never paying for it. Hospitals can't say no.

>>58748884
Can somebody explain this yuropoor how this comcast meme works, like, why are they terrible?

>>58748325
>well it was bound to happen anyway, shut up!!!

i love americans

>>58750113
>Minorities basically already can go through university and maybe even beyond in the US basically for free after scholarships and grants if they are qualified. If universities just start handing out degrees "for free" then the degrees will be worthless. Fucking Bernie Sanders-tier logic.
Just like in every other country with free education that isn't reserved only for 1% that are able to roll on scholarship, right?

>>58750230
Tell me where in the Constitution the Founding Fathers say health-care is a right or any Supreme Court case that supports your theory.

>>58750266
But that's not what I was arguing.

>>58750230
>Everyone else does it, so we should too
Just because it works in fucking Sweden does not mean it will work here. It's completely unsustainable in a society as diverse and large as the US, not to mention the fact that universal healthcare is completely unconstitutional. Emergency patients still get treated and sent on their way.

I buy my own health insurance because I own my own business. I'm more than happy to continue to do so.

>>58750286
You were answering the post that says verbatim "Helthcare is not a right". It's only natural that the Founding document of the USA and the people that interpret it's meaning ought to have a say on whether that's right or not (Protip: it's not).

>>58750336
*Helthcare
Healthcare

>>58750319
So you're saying that you want your hospitals to become overrun with uninsured people because they literally can't be seen anywhere else?

>>58750190
You do not have to visit medicaid facilities for healthcare and usually have a list of doctors and practices to choose from depending on the ailment or if it's just preventative care or general practice. Healthcare will vary a bit from state to state. Education is free up to high school which quite a few dropout (blacks etc). College there are several grants on top of the FAFSA (plenty actually) depending on race. There are all sorts of bonuses and pathways to get things covered as long as you're a non-white or non-asian descent.

Food stamps come (for most states now) come on a debit card. You're given ample allotments to feed yourself especially if you have children. Almost any major store or chain will take that money and card. Tax wise you don't pay anything especially with children and will earn money through EIC. Housing is also covered but usually there is a waiting period or a list. You can even if you're a minority hispanic or black earn major credits towards your first new house as well. Lots of privilege for minorities to take advantage of even if they're mostly off welfare or on it at all. They will even assist you with finding work as well.

Appears to me that you're the one who lacks the experience with our state and federal government.

>>58750375
get out of the house more, 4chan is turning you into a gullible idiot

>>58750367
Hospital ER's are already overrun with people because they are either uninsured or don't want to wait to see the doctor in a day or two (not life threatening). This has come to pass because of healthcare becoming so socialized in the USA. The writing was on the wall back in the 80's. You either joined a multi group consortium of sorts or got into government healthcare (colleges etc.).

>>58750415
>hospitals are overrun with uninsured because there was a push towards giving everyone healthcare
Are you retarded?

>>58750437
No, but you seem to be after showing you lack reading comprehension.

>>58750454
>Hospital are already overrun with people because they are uninsured
>This has come to pass because of healthcare becoming so socialized in the USA
So you are retarded, then?

>>58749409
You could've just said that you were a permavirgin, we'd understand you just as well.

>>58749987
>niggers
>gibsmedat
>implying niglet labor

>>58748325
>don't try to stop it
>it was going to happen anyway lol
The argument of a spineless numale cuck.

>>58750367
>Hospitals are overrun with uninsured, costs taxpayers some billions for the headaches they cause.
>Hospitals are overrun with "insured" patients with state assisted "insurance" that costs taxpayers billions. Rights are violated as all taxpayers are forced to subsidize shitty health "insurance".

I'll stick with the former. The government can't fix anything.

>>58749715

>You've been brainwashed by economic illiterates

You don't understand, we don't condemn child labour for being bad to the economy. The same way we don't condemn slavery for being bad to the economy. Both are fucking great and get a lot of shit done, economically speaking.

We condemn those for being FUCKING IMMORAL.

Don't you guys have an "NAP" or something? Do you unironically believe child labour doesn't violate it?

Let me give you another example with something you most likely oppose and your "NAP" condemns: stealing. Stealing is great for your economy. It makes you richer. BUT IT'S GODDAMN IMMORAL!!!!!1

>>58750904
But the second wouldn't happen if the patients had insurance.

>>58751199
Having shitty health insurance is not going to make the unwashed masses healthier. They will continue to make terrible life choices that make them completely obese, diabetic, and toothless by age 35 no matter what.

>>58751250
>but actually
No. That's not how arguments work.
>unwashed masses
Literally tipped my trilby to you. The fact that you've said this twice, completely seriously, proves just how out of touch with reality you are.

Goodbye, retard. You got caught in a contradiction and you're fedoratier.

>>58751275
The only retard here is you for somehow trying to equate having health insurance with achieving health, as if the only reason people of low socioeconomic status are unhealthy is because they don't see doctors regularly. That's the Obama-tier argument that got us in this mess in the first place.

Besides, healthcare isn't a right in the US anyway, so it's really a moot point. I cannot wait until the ACA is dismantled.

trumpcucks itt are the dictionary definiton of a cuckold and stockholm syndrome
hilarious

>>58751378
>believing people should pay for their own shit makes you a cuckold

Weird definition of cuck to be quite fucking honest with you fampai.

>>58751423

Cool, when is my ISP paying me for all the personal information it's collecting when I browse?

Oh, and when is it reimbursing me for all the losses I'm having for not getting gigabit Internet here since they killed the only local provider that was offering it?

>>58751686
>personal information it's collecting when I browse?
You either signed an agreement to allow them to do this or you're full of shit. Also implying your personal information is worth shit anyway, kek.

>when is it reimbursing me for all the losses I'm having for not getting gigabit Internet here since they killed the only local provider that was offering it?
Why the fuck do you think you're entitled to gigabit ethernet? They don't owe you shit. They shut the other company down because they were bigger and better. Don't like it? Invent something else.

>>58751036
This guy gets it.

You guys are missing the point debating economics, this isn't an economical discussion. It's an ethical discussion.

Net neutrality is necessary to promote ethical behaviour and punish the unethical.

>>58751778
>because they were better
Yeah broadband 30mbps is definitely better than gigabit fiber. It's definitely not like the monopoly used immoral means to force the local fiber provider out of business...

>>58748291
>/pol/ love this Pajeet
Guess that means I hate him

>>58748792
My bank account.

>>58749301
Except the trucks(customers) have already paid to use the roads. You are now trying to charge the producers on the other end.

here is the deal, ISP's want to double dip and charge both ends of the connection.

I pay my ISP for 20Mb second connection and have a 2TB cap, it shouldn't matter where I go on the internet.

ISP's see's that Netflix, Youtube, and other sites are the majority of traffic/bandwidth and wants to double dip by charging them.

Fuck off ISP's we already paid you for access, it doesn't matter what sites we are using.

>>58748710
>>58748792
Fuck off with your shitty bait, faggot.

>>58750179
Iran also has a long history of scientific excellence that extends even to these days. The golden age of Islam is largely attributable to Iranian scientists, and I've noticed that whenever a Muslim makes a breakthrough in science, it's almost always an Iranian.

>>58751036
>>58751790

>muh ethics

Yeah I'm sure Bangladeshis care about your faggy liberal worldview.
Oh wait they don't. They're fucking dead of starvation because the country cannot survive without child labor. Well done, so moral of you!

>>58750408
Fucking this. If you actually believe the social welfare system in the US is adequate in any way then you really need to get out and actually look at what's going on in the real world.

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>>58753192
>morals
>liberal

>>58753192

If poor kids work, they won't get an education, if they don't get an education, they'll never overcome poverty.

>>58753192
>comparing Bangladesh with the United States at any point in its entire history
False equivalence ring any bells?

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>>58749301

In what kind of shithole country do you live where roads are owned by somebody?

Where you live, can't you make that joke about having a bridge for sale for the gullible?

>>58750231
part of it is this:
>sneaking in extra fees that they will remove only if you notice them
>terrible customer service so that you're disinclined to argue over said fees

but banks and cell phone carriers do the exact same shit

>>58749606
>child labour was necessary
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Do you read what you are writing or just hit keys and click post?