RYZEN IS ON THE HORYZEN!!!

inb4 intel destroys them 10 days before they release their shit

the problem with AMD is not that they are bad per se, they are good

it's that they have no Foundries of their own. They cost kazillions.

too late, they fucking waited like 3 years to finally update their fucking architecture

>>58721346
we already knew this

>>58721380
>inb4 intel destroys them 10 days before they release their shit
With what? Cannonlake(Wow, dieshrink Skylake and 4 cores!) on desktop in mid 2018 if their yields aren't 1.7%?

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Yet Vega comes out in like 4-6 months.

the day when jewtel gets blow the fuck out

>>58722381
Vega 11 is due May, and Vega 10 is confirmed to come out before Vega 11

>>58723231
can u give me salsa?
>inb4 currytech rumour

why are all the tech news sites shilling this rumor about no 6 core ryzen? other than some stupid table on some dumb wccftech-tier chink website i don't see any good reason why there wouldn't be

>>58723535
The low level tech media all run the same stories, its an echo chamber.
CanardPC on twitter were talking to some OEMs had at present at 65w 6 core samples on hand.
Sure its possible that AMD may not have 6 core SKUs available upon launch, but that doesn't mean its impossible for them to make 6 core chips.

>>58723392
Computex schedule leak, mentioned recently launched midrange line. So latter half of May for Vega 11.

Vega 10 earlier because of it passing RRA months before Vega 11, and AMD stating it's 2017 1H awhile back so no room after Computex. My expectation is a spoiler launch in time for GTC.

Fuck knows when Polaris 12 comes out, but that's just an Oland replacement anyways.

>>58723595
thanks anon

>>58723535
http://www.zolkorn.com/news/amd-ryzen-sr5-will-be-8c-8t/

That's their sole fuckin source. Don't listen to the echo chamber. Wccftech has Zero credability.

>>58723535
Zen is made up of 4-core modules, so depending on how the modules are designed it may not actually be possible to create 6-core versions to begin with. Hopefully it is, however, and the stories currently circulating have no good source.

>>58723703
Doubt it. It shouldn't be like the CMT cores where you can only disable them in pairs. The front end and FPU between cores isn't shared.

>>58721380
No design company needs their own fabs, and the current players have all caught up to Intel. Competition no longer has to work with Big Daddy Core being a node shrink ahead. The major foundries are also matching Intel's node shrink schedules. This isn't the same game you know from the past 20 years.

>>58721404
No they didn't wait you fucking retard, they were designing it all those years, they didn't come up with the idea a few months ago

>>58723535
Why would there be?

>>58723909

I don't believe that. Big players still have to charge a premium, Samsung won't work for free for AMD for example. It is a logical thought but I don't see it in practice making chips much cheaper yet.

>>58723909
But absolutely none of the other foundries can match Intel's density and scaling. They just make up whatever name they wanted to catch up to Intels manufacturing lead.

>>58724073

Intel can also beat them in volume even in the theoretical scenario they were matched in technology (which they aren't). For example, they could go to 6cores or 8cores without breaking much sweat if they were really cornered. Having your own Foundries is a hell of an advantage.

>>58724073
>intels manufacturing lead
>14nm node performs so poorly they had to cancel a whole product line after delaying it for a year
>they'll still be using it into 2018 because of all the problems they had
>their 10nm node will be used for at least 3 years as well

Back end scaling by itself means nothing. Trying to push area scaling to extremes to get more candidates per wafer while causing the side effect of horrid yields is not having a manufacturing lead. Its called falling behind.
Intel is faltering because Kryzanich is a terrible CEO.

>>58724150

> we reach the limits of the quantum mechanical theory
> photolithography is also scientifically at its limits

> Intel's fault
=

>>58724150
Stupid AMDniggerpoojet

>>58724180
it is

>>58724150
Intel will still be king of density and scaling. Garlic eaters can put smaller transistors on the same size interconnects all they want, no one really believes they have any kind of advantage.

>>58724261
You assume they don't have anything in the top secret lab.

>>58724261

lol, ok, we have a badass over here that will defy the laws of quantum mechanics and overcome all the severe photolithography limitations that dozens of Conglomerates can't solve easily.

>>58724180
Don't talk out of your ass.
Intel's 14nm node being problematic has nothing to do with any meme science buzzwords. They paid the price of trying to get a node and a half shrink work of scaling out of a single node. They required double and in some cases triple patterning in certain areas to get the resolution required, and they did this so they could present PR fluff to investors. There is no real reason for it. They even developed a variant of the process with a slightly denser back end for mobile chips.
This is an executive single handedly giving orders to make stupid decisions.
Contra revenue was a stupid decision.
Sophia was a stupid decision.
Pressuring the foundry business to meet unrealistic goals so they can blow smoke up the ass of their investors is a stupid decision.

Broadwell CoreM launch was a mess.
Broadwell desktop got delayed twice.
Kryzanich insisted that they were having no foundry issues, then only one week later he admitted they were a quarter behind schedule in where they thought yields would be.
Despite that desktop Broadwell was further delayed, originally only launching with two main SKUs.
Production of the Iris Pro equipped desktop Broadwell chips were soon halted since they were losing money on each die.
They were forced to rush Skylake to market, and it took half a year before they could yield enough high clocking dies to start stocking vendors with desktop Skylake.

This is Kryzanich slowly strangling intel because hes a fucking moron. He needs to be removed by the board.

>>58724193
Stay in /v/, kid.

>>58724267
Back end scaling alone means nothing. Having a denser chip doesn't do you any good when your yields per wafer are still low, and the competition is on par when it comes to electrostatic characteristics on the FEOL.

>>58724283
BUT ITS THE FUCKING JEWS HIDING ALL THEIR SECRET ALIEN TECH
WAKE UP SHEEPLE

>>58724301

Did you miss I also said Photolithography has severe limitations? What is Patterning? Part of Photolithography.

>>58724327
You're just pulling words out of your ass because you don't know what you're talking about.

>>58724337

OK, we wait for you to prove that the Patterning problems you mentioned, aren't Photolithography problems. We'll be waiting all day. All you want to do is to say "shut up, I know those things better".

Yes, you do know those things better.

Here is your prize, fuck off.

>>58724355
>I got caught talking out of my ass
>now I'm going to shitpost like an autist

Why is it so hard for people like you to just refrain from posting about subjects you're totally unfamiliar with?
What compels you dipshits to gleefully spread misinformation?

I don't go on /o/ and shitpost about Wankel engines, so why the fuck do you do this here?

>>58724355
actually it seems like the point he's trying to make is that the CEO is making really bad decisions

YOU brought up the more technical aspects of the conversation and now you're backpedaling because you assumed this anon would be as ignorant as you are and you were wrong.

>>58724383

Fuck off and die cunt. Just because you know something better it doesn't mean someone might not know the big picture well.

Answer the question now cunt.

Why is Photolithography easy?

>>58724410

He won't answer it. Patterning is part of Photolithography. He's just trying to be a cunt.

>>58724410
>The token autistic fallacy defense: The Post

>>58724410
>>58724404
Y'all are both faggots

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>>58721346
why don't you solder your own CPUs?

>>58724425

> I can't answer the question: the post

>>58724410
the photolithography isn't relevant to the larger picture, which is that Intel basically said "look how wicked cool my teeth are" to investors and then ran face first into a brick wall

You are more concerned with how hard they ran into the brick wall rather than the fact that running into a brick wall is a fucking stupid idea.

>>58724404

He's a cunt. He doesn't want to talk about CEOs and Business, he wants to talk about the technology. I have encountered him in another thread last week.

All he wants to say is that he knows the details better but nobody is allowed to speak.

He's probably a sad little bitch in real life that is scared to speak up.

>>58721346
As long as it's price competetive, like piledriver was, then I'll be happy.

>>58724433
No one claimed any part of fabbing a chip was easy, you're only latching on to this because you have no ground left to stand on.
I called you out for talking out of your ass. For spouting buzzwords that you know nothing about.
Now you're desperately clinging on to this last straw, like the shitposting loud mouth autist you are.

You tried to make that argument that, at the 14nm node, intel was coping with some intrinsic scaling limitation. You woefully tried to mention a quantum mechanic force being a reason, which is still wholly untrue. The force you undoubtedly wanted to mention is uncontrollable electron tunneling. However this isn't an issue anyone is having to deal with. Leakage of FinFET parts is still lower than all prior planar parts. Intels yield issues had nothing to do with this, and everything to do with management pushing engineers and tooling well beyond a single node shrink in one leap for completely superficial reasons.

>>58724457
You literally have autism.

>>58724505
>You literally have autism.

I'm going to be honest. This is projection. You barge in demanding nobody to have an opinion.

You have to relax. Everyones sees that you know stuff on CPUs. You don't need to demand full attention.

Hence you might want to look into your tendency to demand in a tantrum like a 5 year old for everyone to shut up for you to exist.

>>58724457
>He's probably a sad little bitch in real life that is scared to speak up.

your name is John right? and you hate every single one of us?

>>58724542
dude you're a fucking joke

see >>58724551

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$700 for a CPU that gets beat by a $300 Intel in all games? I'll pass.

>>58724542
Autist, my posts are all well thought out and coherent.
You however do nothing but shitpost and use reddit spacing. Having an opinion about something is not the same as talking out of your ass and pretending to be a factual voice of authority. You got called out for talking out of your ass, and that hurt your little autistic ego.
Get over it, and don't post unless you know what you're talking about. Which means you should probably stop posting all together.

>>58724586
>reddit spacing
Dude, yours posts make a lot more sense than his, but LOL.

>>58724586

For all your supposed superior intellect you have to google some terms as homework. Autism and the Asperger Syndrome is typical of individuals that may also be high in Intelligence but with severe problems in social interaction. Regardless of what I am, look into your mirror for a second, and see that your behavior is criminally stupid.

You barge in, you see someone that knows something not in much detail compared to you and you try to shut them off completely from your existence.

I fear you might also have criminal tendencies. You remind of ReiserFS. The guy that was super intelligent in filesystems, and killed his wife.

>>58723595
Vega 11 is small vega, just like polaris 11 is small polaris. If this quote is reffering solely to vega parts that would mean vega 10 is the one to release in May with 11 coming sooner.

Which seems unlikely to me. They haven't even said anything official on vega 11, and it would seem more likely for it to come later like polaris 11 did.

How do you know they're not reffering to polaris itself with that quote? AMD themselves consider the 470 and 480 midrange cards.

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can you fucks use trips, I can't fucking tell who is who anymore

I agree with the fuck who was talking about decisions on the business side of things being responsible for the poor 14nm process.

>>58724674
Read: recently launched midrange line

Vega 11 is midrange, Vega 10 is in no way midrange. Is Polaris 10 recently launched?

Theres your answer

>>58721346
I'm going to let jessica know how she's doing.

>>58724771
Too late. I already did. I thanked Jessica for helping out multiple individuals at once through 4chan.

>>58724707
Technically yes, polaris is recently launched as it is AMD's most recent architecture launch. Regardless of the fact it would be nearly a year later, it would be "recent" for AMD.

For all we know they'll start a new series and just carryover Polaris, launch Vega 10 as their flagship, and bring out Vega 11 later to fill in the gap.

They did exactly this with the 200 and 300 series.

Will 2017 finally be the year of EUV lithography?

>falling for the multiple patterning meme

People honesty believe Ryzen will be better or cheaper.

>>58725037
It has to be, AMD goes out of business otherwise

>>58725037
I think it will be cheaper and almost as good.

Problem is i they are even 10% off the mark they are still generations behind because of the taper in performance gains.

Nobody wants a brand new cpu that benches the same as an ivy chip no matter the cost.

>>58725037
I still don't buy the whole "it'll be $350 for the 8c/16t part guys!" BS. This is from a single quote and is honestly open to interpretation. Plus it wouldn't be the first time a CEO didn't choose their words wisely when confronted with a reporter.

Lisa Su is a baddass business woman for sure, but nobody's perfect.

I withhold belief the cheapest the 8/16 part will be is $500 and wouldn't be surprised if it came in a good $100-200 above that. That part is, afterall, targeted more at prosumer/ workstation audiences.
4c8t parts are where gamers should be interested in as that would in effect be an i7 7700k for probably less than an i5 7600k.
8c/16 ~$500
6c/12t ~$350
4c/8t ~$200-250
Would be more than fair.
There's also maybe the possibility of parts with SMT disabled but some anon im another thread claimed that would be very unlikely with the design of th architecture, but I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough to touch on that.

>>58724457

Yep. If you search an archive for the words 'tech illiterate retard' you will see that he has been shitposting and shilling for his favorite company (AMD) for like two years.

>>58725308

If AMD isn't lying about the performance then they will be pretty much the same as Intel's pricing. If they are (and AMD are masters of making up bullshit hype) then I would expect delusional levels of pricing like the first bulldozer chips were until they're forced to discount them a few months later.

>>58725020
2017? No. TSMC has stated that they will start ramping up a 7nm node utilizing some early EUV machines in 2019 though. Some fanboys on Anandtech are currently flinging shit at one another over whether or not they'll get volume production before 2019 or not.

GloFo has some EUV machines though, and they've stated they're going to start work getting their 7nm SOI FinFET process up and running later this year. Barring EUV light source the process relies on absurd quad patterning, so its yet to be seen how that'll play out for them. They might have some fancy IBM IP for negating the exponentially increasing complexity of adding a 4th pass, but thats some pretty abstract guess work.
2018 for early samples is more realistic, but still on the optimistic side for a high performance part like a CPU or GPU.
Global Foundries having the first EUV parts on the market would certainly make for good PR, especially after acquiring IBM's foundry business and merging with it. Its still very much an emerging technology that will take years to really iron out.
450mm wafers would be a bigger cost saver, but as far as I know every foundry shelved their plans for them until 2018 or later.

>>58725360
How much of an idiot do you have to be to think a common insult thrown around here is all one person?

>>58725308
it's not going to be anywhere near LGA 2011 prices that's for sure

complete suicide otherwise especially if the lower core count chips can't match the i5/i7 clock speeds

>>58724647
Seriously. The other dude may be a shit flinging retard talking out of his ass but there's nothing wrong with good sentence structure and the use of paragraphs.

Sometimes I wish 4chan supported indentation just to clean up longer posts a bit and make them less annoying to read.

>>58725434

Same posting style and same self-absorbed attitude. It's very obvious to anyone who isn't an autismo retard.

>>58725456
I think theres totally an autist here with an attitude problem. Its this guy >
>>58724180
>>58724327
>>58724355
>>58724410
>>58724457
>>58724542
>>58724651

>>58725453
Really, the fuck is that spacing? Its like some imgur meme or something.

FUCK YOUR DRAMA BULLSHIT GET HYPED

>>58725415
It would be difficult for them to lie and get away with it through their presentation method. Afterall it was presented to investors and lying to them is a very dangerous move. Not to mention an unbiased third party achieved some respectable performance figures on an engineering sample at a humble 3.1-or-2-ish clockspeed.

They'll still have to offer a commendable price/performance to overcome the mindshare intel enjoys, though I agree they'll have to test the waters and probably shoot for higher than people are ultimately willing to pay.

>>58725561
Too many sources either confirming or nodding to the performance shown in AMD's two demos. Before CanardPC published their magazine preview a bunch of OEMs on various sites have been all but breaking NDA. A while back some guy even showed off his own OEM sample, a 3.2ghz base, 3.5ghz turbo chip.
If there were any huge performance discrepancies they'd be well known. The type of publicity that would get would be worth breaking an NDA for to publish early and get web traffic from the entire internet.

>>58725416
>spent the last 45 minutes reading about EUV
>becoming more sceptical with each article

Honestly believe that SAQP will be the standard at 7nm unless ASML get their EUV source to 250 W+ & at high availability soon.

>>58725495
It's called sentence structure. You learn it in writing portions of English classes from pretty much the time you start writing up until you graduate high school.

Calm down buddy I'm agreeing with you here but there's absolutely nothing wrong with separating groups of sentences from others in the form of paragraphs. It actually makes the body of text more attractive and easier to read.

This is off topic though, let's get back to talking about Zen cause FUCK YEAR SHITWRECKER KELLER GONNA TAKE INTEL OUT BACK LIKE OL' YELLER.

>>58725705
Power output is the limitation, but without it we're looking at the average cost of a chip probably going up. It only 20% of a 7nm wafer are good candidates then low end parts either have to be heavily subsidized by the sales of other parts, or they just don't get sold in the low end price bracket.
With tech entering mainstream in 2~ years one would hope that this sort of thing would be viable. Its still pretty sketchy.

>>58725728
Single sentences aren't paragraphs, and constantly breaking up posts into three lines seems like its either a meme, or some mental problem.

>tfw my portfolio is literally around 40% $AMD, 40%$NVDA, and 10% $INTC.
>tfw when I'm beating the S&P meme 500

Thanks /g/, memes have made me around 4k so far. Better than betting it all on red or some stupid shit

>>58725752
Single sentence paragraphs are generally frowned upon, yes, but their ultimate purpose is the separation of ideas. Separating chunks of sentences which work together to convey meaning from chunks of others that lead into a different idea helps give a body of text flow.

I admit my paragraphs probably look retarded on desktop versions of the site but I'm mobile posting and this shit is so ingrained in my head I can't write any other way. This paragraph is an example of what I was talking about, by the way, as I've gone from explaining what a paragraph is to why mine might look odd from another perspective.

>>58725911
>but I'm mobile posting

:^)

>>58725854
I flat out stated that AMD was guaranteed to hit $10 per share before the end of the year, and they might even hit $12. A bunch of shitposters scoffed at it. AMD did reach $12 per share. Their loss.
Now lets wait and see if they hit $8-10 billion in revenue for fiscal year 2017. Should be a great year for them.

>>58725911
Single sentence paragraphs while also autistically shitposting is a double no no.

>>58725854
>3 biggest companies in their industry

Yes geez you sure needed /g/ expert opinion on that.

>>58723581
for amd to not have 6 cores, that would mean there is an architectural failure that would demands all or nothing form half the cpu, as incompetent as amd can be at times, I don't think keller would make something that shit. honestly wondering if there are going to be steps in between like a 7/14 core, of if amd is going to put them out like the phenom series where a dual could unlock one or two more, that could be a selling point if they do.

>>58726229
Allegedly the CCXs just have to remain symmetrical.
IE: A six core chip has one core binned off in each of the two CCX structures.

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>>58725308
THERE Will NOT BE 3C OR 6C VARIANTS!

>>58724573
500$ max for bottom binning, with i7 price math more likely due to amd even saying the 350$ range was on the table publicly.

>>58726268
I can buy that, but there needs to be a good reason, as a 7/5 core could give them more ranges they could hit, I don't say 3 because lets be honest, if you fuckinged a chip to the point 7 cores are dead its scrap. though a 3 core 6 thread distitute build does have its place.

>>58726315
It that is the case, CCXs needing to maintain symmetry, it could indicate a nuance about the L3 cache interconnect, and the buffer used to ensure the consistent average latency they talked about.

>>58725037
The frogs already benched the worst case scenario cpu, a 3.15ghz throwing errors piece of shit, it's better than intel's 6 core cpu, and with just the clock up comes dangerously close to intel's 8 core, without throwing errors may match or surpass it.

at ces, amd said that the range for the 8/16 thread was either 500$ or matching i7. Now considering the size of the cpu, they could match the i7, considering what they had to leave out, avx512 and quad channel memory, the 8 core just cant command the same price as the 8 core or 6 core because if you price it there, you are in the range where people need those features, there may be a black edition or some binning for a 500$ chip but i have doubts it will be there. and then you have the last bit, all enterprize chips are gotten from form the same design, just mcmed, meaning amd likely will give consumers the shit binned chips, so there we have all the reasons why it may fall to the i7 just on chip reasons alone.

for market reasons, amd can sell it at i7 prices and make profit, if they sell it at i7 prices, that WILL convince people to buy it apposed to the i7, and then the full line up below it, which will hit each of the i lines will be VERY compelling if not calling you retarded for going with the i chip instead.

but amd marketing could easily shit the bed and say 'teasing the i7 price match point was eye catching, and putting it out at 500$ is good enough for people as its a solid drop in the price of performance' which lets be honest, it is, but that effects EVERY chip in lineup by pulling the price up with it, and making it less compelling to buy when you can get the known quantity that is intel.

>>58726507
.......so what has avx512 ?

>>58726278
Source?

>>58725308
See the problem here is a few fold, amd may have the compute to play with intel's 1000$ lineup, but dual channel memory, no avx 512, if you are looking at amd or intel and you can use either of those, you are going the 6 core or bite the bullet on the 8 core, possibly even write it off as a business expense, so the 8 core is not apealing.

amd does not have the better process currently, so intel likely clocks higher, and that matters more then an extra 2 cores in most games, so slit your wrists on the 6 core price,

and because its a known quantity, you are likely going to buy an i5 over an amd 4/8 at that price.

-------------

playing that price match game for amd is dangerous, because intel can rush a new lineup saying 'thanks to improvements in the process, we now have a way to give you more for less, and drop everything down a tier' would intel like to do that? Fuck no, but if amd forces them, they can easily do it, and then with cannon lake increase the price a bit if not out right releasing cannon lake asap

but if amd drops the 8 core at i7 prices, intel has fucking nothing they could drip their entire e line down to the 200-300 range and leave the i7 at the 150 price point, and then have their 10 core be 1000$ but would they do that? if they go on business like usual, they wont have an answer with cannon lake either, this would be a multi generation win for amd, and that's assuming they don't bring out zen+ around the same time frame of when intel's next chips should drop.

this is just the consumer side which amd has written off, enterprise they will have mcms that have quad to octa channel memory and enough compute power to crush intel and from the demos, at a better power point too.

>>58726626
512 bit extensions for the avx2 instruction set.

>>58726635
a 'leaked' slide
only souce are clickbait sources and places running with the rumor because amd is hot now.

>>58726681
You are so full of shit. You know nothing more than some wccftech article.

There is no consumer chip with avx512

Your analysis is absolutely worthless

No one pay any attention to this LARPing faggot

>>58721404
>>58721380
$150-$200 four core i7 performance and I'm sold

>>58721380
>inb4 intel destroys them 10 days before release
Not happening. Intel's next line (Coffee Lake) will be cheap as fuck though. Unfortunately it will be the last on 14nm though. The 10nm line (Cannonlake) will come out right after Coffee

>>58722381
>>58723231
If the 570 is >470 perf with the Vega arch, it'll be good.

>>58723535
>>58723703
The most concerning thing is that they might be artificially creating the 8c / 8t chips for product and price differentiation.

>>58723581
>CanardPC on twitter were talking to some OEMs had at present at 65w 6 core samples on hand.
Hope so.

>>58725308
>8c/16 ~$500
>6c/12t ~$350
>4c/8t ~$200-250
I doubt the 4c / 8t variant will sell for more than an unlocked i5, which is currently at about 230USD. The 6v / 12t (if it exists) will probably run at about i7 prices, aka 300USD.

>>58726803

I very much doubt that they won't have something somewhere in the $75-150 segment

>>58726874
They will, but that's Raven Ridge, the APUs

>>58726764
the entire 6 core + intel line have it.
amd prices at 500$, they are playing with the prosumer lineup, and coming up short.
amd prices at 350 with a binned chip at 500, no one really pairs it up with an e line, just the best i7.

If amd do go for the 500$ price point or 350, intel will likely respond by helping pro software incorporate avx512 support into their shit, so amd is playing a game they are going to lose in the long run if they price high. not only would intel be able to effortlessly price match them, with an instruction set they don't have and memory throughput they don't have the capability of outside of mcm parts, and without amd having the sphere processing power to brute force avx512 it would fall short of everything in the e line.

look, amd has one chance to launch this at the right price, and that right price is i7 match at minimum with a binned at a higher point, this is the case of better to sell 10 at a 300% profit rather then 2 at 500%

then outside of that, how many gamers look at intel's i7 and think, fuck that, the i5 is just as good, or in many cases, why get the i5 when the i5 is just as good? amd made a public gaming event showing off the ryzen 8 core 16 thread.

They knew the price right there, and then they teased it again at ces. at this point im id be willing to bet money on the minimum 8/16 being in the 300-400$ price range, if not just straight price matching the i7 to fuck with intel.

Doesn't matter, when Ryzen at best can clock at 3.3GHz it can't beat a 4.5 Kabylake even if it had more IPC

>>58726935
3.3 is a pipe dream, I have some very reliable sources tell me that it won't pass 2.9

>>58726935
At launch, Ryzen CPUs have a base clock of 3.4ghz or higher.
At CES they had machines on the floor with a 3.6ghz base, and a 3.9ghz turbo. An even more recent binning had a 4ghz turbo.

These are competing against Broadwell-E, not the paltry mainstream quad cores.

>>58726902
No

Only thing with avx512 is Phi

Quit shitposting, because you know alot less than you think you do

>>58726874
Pricing ryzen chips below 150$ will be a straight loss for them per chip which is something they absolutely will not do.

>>58727001
What if I told you a 240mm^2 chip costs far less than $150 to fab
This isn't on cutting edge process, it can already be considered mature.

>>58726959
my pentium 4 runs at 3.2

>>58726986
Is it not present in Broadwell Xeons, or coming Skylake Xeons?
I forget if it was slated for one and then removed.

>>58727035
Your failburst is only good for drying laundry.

>>58727029
Polaris 10 is on the same node and manufacturer and is around 100$ per chip, that's for design and manufacturing.

Ryzen is around the same size and complexity and should be around the same price per chip as such.

You didn't think that fab costs were the only cost involved in the price of a chip did you?

>>58727037
Nope. Only on enterprise xeon Phi coprocessor=$$$$
So take that avx "angle" out of your equation
Quad memory is a bummer, but really consumers won't notice much. Now if the Opteron-zen doesn't have it well....

>>58726315

>price math

i read that as i7 packed math.

it's all about that packed math, man.

>>58727128
Each Zeppelin die has two memory channels, and they aren't superfluous. The 4 die MCM Napels Opterons have 8 channels.
A couple years ago now Papermaster mentioned they would be bringing disruptive memory bandwidth to market, and thats it. 8 channels of 2400mhz DDR4 is pretty decent per socket.
If higher clocked ECC DIMMs reach the market it stands to reason that Napels will be a screaming beast for anything with lots of memory ops.

AMD doesn't support Optane NVDIMMs in enterprise and it's pretty much DoA, NVDIMMs are the new hotness and everyone's exchanging their archaic DRAM for them

>>58727171
Yeah I've got a hard-on for the enterprise shit.
I hope this consumer shit does well and everything, but I've moved on in life and don't care about 4 core gaming machines. Even if the 8 cores are good, Ill still wait for pro stuff.

>>58727195
>Doesn't support vaporware
Oh noes

>>58727195
>falling for marketing spin
>even after the marketing spin was massively revised
3D Xpoint/Optane/Micron's phase change memory just isn't that fast. They don't have any substantial lead over current NAND.
Its dead end tech. In a generation or two no one will care about it, and anyone who got suckered into buying devices will be left holding their dick in their hand.

>>58727195
Nobody cares about your shitty memory until you get it both fixed in speed and endurance.
It can't compare to fucking NAND at the moment, much less SDRAM

>>58727251

it's literally rambus part 2: electric boogaloo.

>>58727260
>>58727251
>>58727235
http://www.hardocp.com/news/2017/01/27/intel_shipping_optane_memory_modules_to_partners_for_testing
http://fudzilla.com/news/memory/42736-intel-ships-optane-chips-to-partners


Jealousy.

>>58727195
>Optane
botnet

>>58727195
>he thinks anyone in HPC will replace their LRDIMMs for that shitty slow as molasses meme junk

>>58727283
Cool. Maybe 2018 for consumers? And then 2023 for prices to be affordable?

>>58727314
>2026 for linux support

>>58722427
This board will go nuts

>>58727331
You're dumb, even this even gets anywhere it'll get Linux support sooner than anyone else, Windows is a shitshow with 500+ cores and has low ceiling memory limit

File: tumblr_inline_okk1u2WGyo1rr5si2_500.gif (1MB, 245x182px) Image search: [Google]

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>>58723581
Which are the high level tech media?

>>58727388
Outlets like EE Times.

>>58723885
I don't know about the fx series. But I can confirm that the 860k was able to disable by module or by core. It wasn't limited to disabling pairings. I never did any actual testing with it such as if either one way or the other performed any better. But I know for a fact it was an option in the uefi.

>>58727367
24TB, they fixed that shit with WS2016.
But do remember that the top500 already passed 1 petabyte of memory.

>>58727418
Everything in the Bulldozer family can have single cores disabled.
If you google around you can find people disabling one core per module on their FX 8150s and 8350s to measure performance impact. Serial performance increases with the CMT penalty removed.

>>58727195
>AMD doesn't support RDRAM RIMMs in enterprise and it's pretty much DoA, RIMMs are the new hotness and everyone's exchanging their archaic DRAM for them
Lmao lets see how far intels newest deadend tech (TM) takes them.

>>58727561
see
>>58727283

>>58727128
>>58726986
wow was i tired when i wrote >>58726902

Ok, Intel is dropping skylake e shortly it looks like, right there is amd on borrowed time as they should have avx 512 (trying to think of why I thought it was on broadwell, I think it was just all the people saying amd fuceked with blender and held intel back from not using it, that's all I got as an excuse)

Intel's processors, which are a fucking cluster fuck at best for information, it looks like cannon lake that if there is no delay will have avx512 along with skylake e so amd is at best on borrowed time for making the most out of the cpus

the best thing amd can hope to do is get mass sales to the people, at least consumer side, and get them on an amd motherboard which is a potential upgrade path for zen+, rather then completely write the consumers off and try to undercut intel by just enough to look good, but not enough to turn heads.

>>58727224
for now, intel has no answer for the 8 channel, or the 32 core, may not have an answer for performance per watt, and definitely, where amd and intel will compete, will not have an answer for amd's lower price, if amd has more then 3 skus (all they have shown or leaked is 8/16 16/32 and 32/64) everything 24 cores and higher will be octa channel, potentially as low as 16 cores could be octa channel.

with a non monolithic design, they yields will be fucking great, and as an added bonus, because there is really only 2 chips, one cpu one apu, cost savings across the board, the shit consumers get will likely be the worst chips amd makes, outside of a potential high binned 8 core. Its another reason I fully believe we will see the 300-400$ range for the 8/16 thread.

amd could put out an mcm cpu that is 8 cores, and have that go up against intels 8 core in price, and it would not find itself to be wanting.

>>58726935
there is no ryzen sku below 3.4ghz for consumers.

>>58727001
he is talking about the apu, ryzen is about half the size of a 8350 and came in at 200$ msrp for profit,

amd cuts half of zen off, and adds an apu to it, it could sell for 150$ and make profit, fucked up dies would be lower binned skus.

>>58727129
fucking chrome's spell check and being tired.

yea, price match.

>>58727251
To be fair it could get better, it may not, time will tell... currently it is a bit better then nand but not by a significant amount. I could see it being used if the storage was the bottleneck but you are paying a huge premium for not much in return.

>>58721442
someone post the 'After' pic of this guy

>>58721442
ABSOLUTE PUSSY DESTROYER

>>58729167
You're an idiot

Intel fucked over server operators, Skylake-E is currently reserved only for Google and Amazon. Not only that but Skylake-E doesn't even have a full AVX-512 implementation.

>>58729538
Of course they're reserved since yields are awful.
What else could it be if they're having trouble ramping up a 2 year old architecture on a third gen FinFET process.

So much fucking reddit spacing in this thread. I would say it is safe to ignore pretty much everything in here. I can almost see the spittle in the edges of the fan boys lips.

>>58729908
what the fuck are you on about?

>>58729908
go back /plebbit/

>>58730250

>>58729267
>>58727129
>>58727123
>>58726986
>>58726966
>>58725962
>>58725925
>>58725854
>>58725453
>>58725435
>>58725308
>>58725264
>>58724707
>>58724679
>>58723595
>>58721380
Reddit spacing.

>>58730436
Lets see here
Did this double space

this will.

Either way, you are being a faggot. Do you like walls of text or something with no new paragraphs? How about we just stop using punctuation or shift and tpe lik shit too because that is the mre authentk 4chawn experrrrence

>>58730462
>Single sentences
>New paragraphs
You have to go back.

>>58730501
>MOMMY THEY ARE TYPING IN WAYS I DON'T LIKE, MAKE THEM STOP

>>58730501
Are you having a problem?

I don't like long-ass sentence too all over my screen.

>>58730956
Thanks for your input pajeet.

>>58727195
How many years has Optane been delayed now?

>>58729908
>>58730436
>>58730501
people have typed like that on 4chan since forever. it's a response to the complete lack of formatting on 4chan posts.

This is the second time I've heard this "reddit spacing" shit ever, and both times have been within the past 3 months, despite people having done it for years.

>>58731024
I am not even the first person in this thread to point out the obvious reddit spacing.

>>58730436
go back to /r/the_donald please, fucking obsessed retard

>>58731024
Reddit spacing is a well-known phenomenon.
You need to leave.

>>58731260
>Reddit spacing is a well-known phenomenon.
I don't know anything about reddit. You seem to though. Maybe you should leave.

>>58731296
You can find posts on here from about a year ago calling out redditfags and their attention whore spacing
https://archive.rebeccablacktech.com/g/thread/S52782750#p52793037

>>58724573
> gets beat by a $300 Intel in all games?
I fell for the Intel i5 Sandy Brigde meme, overclocked it to 3 GHz. Still worse than 8350 by a good 10 FPS. Of course, Xvid encodes are now a bit faster, but who gives a shit, it's over 5 FPS on any CPU today.

>>58731332
Oh wow a whole year.

>>58721380
Didn't benchmarks show the next line up of intel processors are like 1% more powerful than the current ones

>>58731332
how much of an autist are you that you even care about spacing on here? have you run out of your meds again? i missed the OP making this a "check my autism" thread

File: amdnooo.jpg (295KB, 800x484px) Image search: [Google]

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I've been holding out since the release of the 8350. Its served me well but I really want to try virtual reality and need to get a new gpu ontop of this. I wish these fucks were releasing their new gpu lineup sooner.

I don't give a shit if it underperforms intels best offerings as long as its performance is relevant.

AMD are in a much stronger position to price the 8/16 at around $500 than most people in this thread give them credit for. It's pretty much guaranteed to be a 6900k killer and there's always room for them to drop prices further if skylake-e doesn't turn out to be a meme.

the main reason I don't see them being too aggressive on ryzen prices is it'll put intel completely against the ropes to the extent that intel would be a complete retard buy, and they'll respond much more jewishly than they did even back in the athlon/pentium 4 days. expect massive patent trolling and other ip litigation if that happens.

>>58724505
Different anon with a legit question for you. I haven't been fully caught up on this department of formation. Are you saying Intel tried going from 22nm to 14nm and then shrink to 10nm without changing processes? Just making sure I'm understanding this correctly.

>>58721380
You do realise that they have privileges with gloflo, right?

>>58732460
Intel in going from their 22nm Trigate process down to their 14nm Trigage process set extraordinary goals for area scaling. Compared to industry 20nm planar processes intel's 22nm Trigate is considerably less dense. Yet their 14nm Trigate process has a node and a half worth of back end scaling. They're all similar bulk silicon FinFET processes, there is no radical material change, its just a matter of asking too much in too short a span of time.
Thats a huge leap to make, and they paid for it by having yield issues for well over a year. Thats a lot of lost money from an executive decision.
By some back end metrics like connected poly pitch, gate pitch, metal pitch intel's 14nm is on par with or slightly denser than some 10nm nodes offered by other foundries. They made this leap from their previous 22nm Trigate being considerably less dense than industry 20nm planar processes.

Its shaping up to look like they're having trouble with their 10nm node as well. Cannonlake was officially delayed way back in 2015, and there have been plenty of rumors going around about a constant plague of issues.

That Kryzanich's leadership. Just like his decision to waste over $3,000,000,000 effectively bribing smartphone manufacturers to use Atom chips instead of ARM chips. As soon as the contra revenue program ended no one wanted to build an Atom based Android phone any more. Intel gained no market share and made a huge net loss from the endeavor.
This is the guy pushing the foundry business to reach beyond their own grasp which is causing them to stumble.

>>58727275
Now we just need to wait for Itanic 2: electric boogaloo somewhere around ~2021.

>>58726803
>$150-$200 four core i7 performance and I'm sold
This level of delusion is truly amazing

>>58721442
Based Shitwrecker

>>58731332
so you have been bitching about spacing for a year

congraduations

maybe your mommy can get you some tendies for supper

maybe daddy won't see you as such a massive failure in life and actually be somewhat proud

>>58731349
should have went i7

That said, for gaming we are honestly looking only at games that only use 4 cores or at most take advantage of the 8 thread capabilities.

A rumor that I personally don't buy is 8/8 will be the i7 price range, but even that is interesting because its 8 real cpus with those 8 threads opposed to intel doing 4 cpus and 8 threads. If there are any benches that have an i7 pitted against an 6900 frequency equalized with smt disabled, i would love to see it as that is an interesting benchmark. But in games that use more then 4 threads, the amd 8 core would beat out the intel one. much like how in games where only 4 cores or 4 threads are used, intel will have the peak fps advantage, but really how much is that worth?

Look, I got a cpu with 4 cores when 4 cores was 'you are retarded for buying this, a faster dual core is better' and it has served me for... 6 maybe 7 years, while those dual core machines suffer in both peak processing power, along with some games and applications no longer even supporting dual cores.

I'm honestly looking at 8/8 or 8/16 cores in much the same way. The initial drop will see it preform worse in some aspects amazeing in others, and over time, will have FAR longer longevity.

At least that's how I see it through personal experience. Though there are 2 developments that will radically shift how cpus are made in the coming years.

1) more cores, but we are at 14nm and the next jump down is 7nm that doesn't necessarily mean we could fit a ryzen cpu on 1/4th the die space, but that's the theoretical jump down, so 32 cores 64 threads in the same working space for this argument, but honestly, I think we are going to shift to a few strong cores, and a mass smaller cores, kind of like gpus, but remove any function needed for just graphics. This would allow lower end cpus to accelerate without an expensive card

2) the jump off silicon will allow for massively higher clocks,

>ryzencucks


just get intel

>>58738043
To add, the higher clock rate will likely also bring about a change in how cpus work, 50+ ghz is possible on air with some of the candidates but pushing to fast a clock as a universal thing is just not possible, but there are areas that could handle that massive clock and be able to keep up

>>58738056
and in 1 month question every decision you ever made in life up to this point.

>>58731541
sandy to ivy was sub 5
ivy to haswell was close to 10
haswell to broadwell was around 4-5
broadwell to skylake was 2
and skylake to kabby lake is 0 outside of the igpu decoding video.

amd seems to be equal if not ahead of broadwell ipc, only benchmark we have that's not amd is an es throwing fucking errors and thats still ballpark as fast once clocks are equalized.

either way as far as gamers are concerned, its likely going to be fuck intel get whatever amd has at the price you are willing to pay for the vast majority with a minority telling you just overclock the quad core.

honestly can't wait to see what 'there is no upper turbo limit' means in practice as stock to stock may seriously beat the shit out of intel, and that's what most people do, Sub 5% oc

>>58729324
Was that really him?

File: shit wrecker.jpg (62KB, 800x400px) Image search: [Google]

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>>58738641
Of course not.
Killer really aged and thinned out.

>>58738599
Sandy to Ivy was 3%, Ivy to Has was 8%, Has to Broad was 0%, Broad to Sky was 4%

Improvements on Broadwell desktop chips over Haswell was due to the L4 cache, not the architecture. Mobile chips without the L4 cache had the same IPC.

Reminder Nehalem / Westmere to Sandy was 20% alone, and that Sandy has the highest reliable overclock of all Intel chips. Since then it's been stagnation in the 4.6ghz range.

>>58731816
Honestly, at 500$ they may as well not bother putting out a consumer cpu, as that increases the price of everything below it.

most people find 350 a hard price to pay, and will go with an i3 or an i5.

if a quad core is against an i5, it doesn't matter if threading is enabled or not, its not enough power for people to move to amd from intel. if at the i7 its a 6/12 or an 8/8 you effectively give it to intel because intel will clock higher and look better in every benchmark, and lets be honest, 8/8 and 6/12 are close enough powerwise to be effectively the same, and both are not enough power over an i7 to really make people take a short term hit for long term gain.

The 500$ cpu being an 8/16... you dont have the pcie lanes, and you dont have the quad channel, both things people who can really use a 6 core+ intel cpu are looking for, so you price yourself into an area where you are found wanting.

server side, amd has shit in the bag unless intel pulls some massive bullshit, but consumer side

you are looking at a case where you sell 10 at 300% proffit uptick over 8350 or you sell 2 at 500% proffit uptick. amd has a potential to have a 2 generation intel has no answer if they dont massive cut prices, and that's assuming the zen+ isn't doesnt drop in the meantime, and then, a 2-3 product cycle where intel has no answer at all and you are the one to buy.

don't get me wrong 350 or 500$ im getting the 8/16, and if its 350 ill seriously consider the higher binned cpu because I have use for it, but amd can really only hurt themselves if they play intel's inflated game at this time.

Wasnt this shit supposed to launch last year?

>>58738722
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/9483/Generational%20CPU%20IPC.png

and no, it was more like 50%+ from pre sandy to sandy.

and no, sandy didn't have the highest reliable clock rate, that goes to skylake as they had a 80%+ of all chips hitting 4.8 98% for 4.6

if you delid, that % goes up too, as its largely heat that stopped the clocks from going higher rather then stability

>>58738778
the earliest it could have come based on tapouts was mid last year, with october being more of a sure thing, but amd has never put a date so everything was speculation based.

>>58731260
shut up newfaggot I bet you don't even remember longcat xd

>>58738778
Limited availability end of 2016 was stated, and they met that by having OEM samples shipping out before the year ended.
They stated full retail availability for Q1 2017, and they're meeting that as well. They'll be on sale before February's end.

>>58738736
Do you know how much PCIe lanes Summit Ridge has? Someone calculated here a while ago that each die in Naples has either 32 or 36 from the AMD Instinct slides.

>>58738829
I can't really say, but motherboards are saying 16x pcie3 or crossfire for 8x 8x on the highest end chipsets for the, am4 is it, boards. If the chip itself had the lanes for 2 full cards in crossfire it would use it right?

But this could just be me misunderstanding the motherboards slides or how they talk about it.

The way I understood the zen architecture is its built for mcm, one chip dual, 2 chips makes things quad channel, 4 chips octa channel memory, and everything is additive.

single chip cpus do not compete with intel's outside of compute, and of 90%+ of consumers that's all that matters, so instead of making the chips bigger or more robust, they made it mcm and additive, so they scale like fucking gods to the high end, and can handle the low end all with the same architecture.

This is also why I believe the i7 price match more so then 500$ minimum 8/16, its still a distinct possibility due to amd's shit tacular marketing. benching a ryzen 8/16 against a 6700k, and then saying that price matching an i7 is on the table for it along with the 500$ price point chip but 'the decision has yet to be made'.

If amd doesn't go i7 range, they fucked up hard at marketing and it will take a solid price performance cpu at even 500$ and make it look like price gouging because they couldn't shut their fucking mouths.

>>58721346
when was the last time people were this hyped for a new intel cpu?
sandybridge?
god knows nothing they've released afterwards has been worthy of praise.

>>58735403
if amd prices at 500$ for minimum 8/16 then the 4/8 will be i5 price range and fail because its not compelling enough to go amd over intel

If they put that 4 core 8 thread piece of fucking shit silicon (Half the die is dead) down to i3 prices, it now becomes a why the fuck would we go intel when there is an i7 equivalent at the same price?

Its why I honestly believe amd has 2 options, sell nothing at 500$ or sell it all for 2-3 years at 350$ range

>>58738991
haswell, then every single thing they put out sense has been incremental at best.

>>58738792
Core 2 to Sandy was ~50% yeah

hwbot disagrees on the clocks

http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/core_i7_2700k/
http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/core_i7_6700k/

For more memes:
http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/core_i7_7700k/
http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/core_i7_5775c/
http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/core_i7_4790k/
http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/core_i7_4770k/
http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/core_i7_3770k/
http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/core_i7_extreme_990x/

>>58738792
Half of the improvement from Core 2 to Sandy Bridge came with Nehalem, don't forget. That chip was the real innovator. First with the Core i7 name, first quad core with HyperThreading, amazing overclocking potential, plus it had QPI.

>>58739029
People STILL think the 8c/16t chips will be $350.
Loving every laugh. Never change poorfags.

>>58739803
why not though

>>58721623
this

old fucking news

>>58739449
ok, seriously doubting that 2700K as its telling me an average over clock on air is 5.2 where as on water its 4.5

I'm talking more about the silicon lottery site, the guy posts the averages of the cpus that are able to hit X clock rate from the ones he ocs.

also what the hell is cascade? never hear of that before.

>>58739628
core to to nehalem was not a massive uptick in performance, it WAS an uptick, but no where near it to sandybridge.

Hell, amd was still a solid alternative to the nehalem cpus, whereas after sandy bridge you were stupid for getting amd.

>>58739803
again, amd literally said that it was on the table, and prior to that hinted at it, and set up an entire consumer event around the 8/16

350 range is far more likely than you think.

>>58740642
AMD should have went with a tweaked Thuban instead of bulldozer, Thuban was a fucking beast.
Maybe the arch wasn't scalable to 32/28nm and lower..?

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>>58741075
Bulldozer as it was laid out in 2004/2005 was supposed to be their highest serial and multithreaded performance arch ever. It just didn't materialize that way due to all the turmoil within the company. Management pushed the decision to go forward with Bulldozer, and when the money is spent you're stuck with it. AMD didn't have the funds to try and bounce back from a loss that big.

The K10 family arch would have had no problems receiving incremental tweaks. Prime example is 32nm Llano.

>Ryzen meme

Well, well, only interesting for fanboyz and social justice warrior people.

The Ryzen CPUs won't be for free, they match Haswell performance, nothing less, nothing more.

I am gonna build a system with an i5-7700 boxed soon.

>>58741136
I get your point... HOWEVER!!

>>58741156
Nope

I am buying the better product
(depending on certain criterias in this case, performance total performance/powerconsumption ratio, performance/price ratio) no matter the brand name.

Artificially supporting a company by buying worse products is worse than having a monopoly.

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>>58741075
thuban was so good that i didnt even bother upgrading to the later amd processors

who else still thuban?

>>58742507
from athlon 3200+ to a athlon x2 5000+ to a phenom ii x4 955be that i was able to clock at 4ghz so easily without having to upgrade my mobo was so nice

Then I got a free 8350 a little after it was released and was happy to continue the trend of 2x core count (technically) every upgrade.

>>58741128
they hat a keller cpu that they shelved in favor of bulldozer

>>58742507
Phenom II 955 be
considered getting a x6, but decided against it as its a risk on the motherboard that's already old I don't want to take.

Just need 1 more month and I will be off the quad core, and the fucking ddr2 and on 32/64gb ddr4 3200 at least, a 1tb ssd to replace the 120 i have no, and a 8tb hdd to upgrade from my 4tb currently and have the 4tb be a backup of sorts, then around christmas get another 8-10tb drive and use it as the main one and keep the one I get now as a backup drive.

Shit is fucking looking up for this wait fag.

>>58741328
well.. amd is the better cpu, hands down, and price will dictate how much better it is, because that 8 cores, even at 500$ beats out the performance of the 6 cores its against, and by virtue of not clocking as high, will be what, even if you oc yours to 5.2 you are really only going to be better then I assume amd can hit it on average 4.5ghz by 14% and that number will erode over the course of the next few year, or few years depending on where amd prices it, because it will be 8 cores, at either i7 price or at 500$, that is something game devs will take into account if they already aren't.

The only way amd fucks themselves isi if they price it at 900$ then a 6 core at 450$ and the 4/8 at 300$ and a token 4/4 at 200

>>58742507
Phenom 2 was basically a core 2 but with up to 6 cores and way higher clocks. It was great.

>>58741136
you don't know what you're talking about. even if you didn't buy ryzen you'd still save money on intel when they finally lower prices on their four core goy solutions.

your money i guess...