>Full stack developers don't exis-

I'd rather use ajax'd PHP, SQLite and vanilla HTML5/CSS.

Rethink, Koa, Vue, Node is the new meme stack fampai :3

>>58633468
No way. It's Postgres, Angular2, Node, Koa

>PANK stack

webshits get in your containment thread

FUCK YOU AND FUCK THIS MEME DIE DIE DIE FAGGOT
ASSHOLE
COCKSUCKER FUCKING STOP THIS OBNOXIOUS SHIT

>>58633653

go take your adhd meds

>>58633458
Enjoy your 19th century tech.

>using JavaScript at all on your web pages and not using the golden stack of PHP, HTML5, and CSS

You're not a gentooman, I'm afraid.

I still cannot comprehend who decided to use JS on the backend (node). Wew.

>>58633677
stop using this fucking meme it was bad enough on /v/ its plain obnoxious and unnecessary on /g/

> Webshits falling for the framework mess because the vanilla solution is a mess.

kek'd

>>58633430
>Mongodb
Fucking kill yourself

MariaDB, c++, assembly, node

Ruby Underscore Normalize.css Thin
the RUNT stack

>>58633695
>php
please turn in your ID, you're no longer needed here

>>58633734
What can you do in Node, Go, or Python that isn't possible with PHP?

does JSON only work with noSql databases? how does it replace SQL? i are confus

>>58633758
You can reference variables without a dollar sign

>>58633767

>not liking the dollar sign

its like you dont wanna write cool, clean looking code.

>>58633766
NoSQL doesn't replace SQL.

>>58633837

how would you use mongodb and JSON instead then?

>>58633841
you can use JSON with SQL databases.

>>58633758
Not want to kys because of a fractal of bad design

>>58633468
reeethink is dead

>>58633430
What is Forth?

>>58633841
You don't need mongoshit for 99% of things you will make. Just use a normal database.

JSON is for turning objects into text and has many uses. You could compare it to XML.

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mfw nobody on /g/ uses Django.

MariaDB, Django, Angular and uWSGI+Nginx here.

>>58633902
>not using AWS
???

>>58633900

so i grab the data with SQL, then convert it to JSON, then display the JSON?

>>58633915
Got own cloud environment for deployment.

>>58633758
Not have to worry about a shitty language full of backward compatible shit that is literally non-functional.

>>58633900
XML and JSON are not comparable. One is a markup the other is a fucking acyclic tree like data structure.

>>58633902
why WHY people keep on using Angular.

I know that JS is shit and a meme overall, but I just can't comprehend why would someone choose Angulshit over React or Vue.js

>>58633900
Please. Its more likely you don't need relational databases for a lot of web problems.

why should i grab data with php then convert it to json? to make it asynchronous?

>>58634054
Well for one, angular is at least foss, unlike react.

Also corporations fell for the next gen web bullshit and are not changing for at least a decade. Also stupid babby web devs that don't understand why angular is such a shitty design compared to literally anything.

Stop using react faggot. Maybe read the PATENT text file in the fucking repo.

>>58634079
Are you a fucking retard?

What the fuck does any of that have to do with asynchronous IO?

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>web "programmer"

>>58634117

idk i dont see the point in JSON

>>58634086
Well, I stand corrected. So:

Vue.js > Angular 1.x > React

I'll be using the first, for the frontend part of my personal projects (at least)

I'm learning apache, mysql and php.

Am I retarded? It's all been around forever, and there's a lot of documentation and learning resources.

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Web "programmer"

>>58634152
if you're working with a decent sized team angular 1 or 2 will be better because it's opinionated

>>58634152
Good.

Choo is pretty new but it's basically like react lite. You.might like it.

React is OK. But the literal "patents" on it make it useless because literally any lawsuit involving Facebook is likely to put the webapp leveraging it, at legal risk.

>>58634064
Name one thing most people use a relational database for that you would do without one.

>>58634164
Yes. Don't use php, you'll regret it later

whats the point in converting the data you fetch with php to JSON? Why not just display the data with php? Seems like a pointless extra step

>>58634190
How come?

I can live with people choosing Nodejs for their backend. Not every website/app needs to be able to handle 10,000 requests per second and Node development in general IS pretty comfy.

That being said, everyone who makes the conscious decision to use MongoDB for their project needs to die in a fucking fire. Never in my life have I seen a bigger abortion of a software project.

>>58634190

>telling people not to learn x language

the more you know the better, faggot

>>58634187
Generic object persistence. Most times you can get away with storing serialized blobs linked by basic keys or for a document nosql, some kind of indexed field.

>>58634164
You're way better than those faggots with their server side javascript meme.

>>58634197
Don't listen to him. Get really good at writing quality php and you'll be rolling in the bucks.

t. PHP dev making 142k

>>58634192

pls respond i dont get it lads. My school isn't teaching JSON what the fuck is the point of it

>>58634164
>apache
Somewhat, but it's not that bad.
>mysql
Nah, relative databases have their uses and you can transition to MariaDB fairly easily.
>php
Full retard.

>>58634192
The point is JSON is a standardized way of representing most basic, non cyclical data structures. Using your own special snowflake data representation will require someone who wants to leverage your service to implement his own special snow flake parser.

Unless you have the formal grammars, which I doubt you do, convert your shit to a proper object and serialize it into a fucking JSON.

>>58634054
>not Aurelia

>>58634204
node can handle more than 10k rps

it's just not great for calculating. if you have an application that uses little math but relies heavily on I/O, node is perfect.

>>58634192
It's useful for sending data to the browser without having to reload the page.

>>58634197
PHP is unmaintainable. People hire PHP devs when they want someone to unfuck the last guy's code.

>>58634151
RESTful API is a godsend.

>>58634272
Any code is unmaintainable if it is poorly written.

>>58634272
Blame it on the average web developer being retarded. You can write good code and bad code in any language.

>>58634290
all php code is poorly written by nature of it being written in php

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>>58634254
I picked a random number that sounded high in my head, apparently I low-balled it a bit indeed.

Though, I'm sure you'll agree with me that Node will lose to basically every compiled language.

>>58633430

Jesus Christ what an abomination.

>>58634256

so it does have something to do with asynchronous then.........

>>58634273
do you mean you can create an API with it and let other developers use it? wouldn't they need access to the DB tho?

>>58634299
A good carpenter can drive in a nail with either a rock or a hammer, but how many carpenters do you see bashing stuff with rocks? Part of what makes a good developer is the ability to choose the tools that work best.

Your argument is retarded as fuck like PHP.

>>58633710
Not OP.
Care to elaborate ?

>>58634307
Autism Speaks

Good code can be written in any language. Just as bad code can be written in any language.

>>58634326
No it has nothing to do with asynchronous data handling you fucking moron holy shit.

Just

>>58634339
Prior to wiredtiger DB engine, mongodb was really really bad. Now it's just OK.

Also don't read the mongodb blog or whatever. Those people are fucking nutters.

>>58633693
>19th century tech.
That actually powers most of the internet, is proven on all fields of development and isn't showing signs of going away any time soon.

Everything popular and succesfull is a meme.

>>58634330
t. Some guy who sees PHP jobs on websites paying more than he makes

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>>58633767
>a language is objectively bad because i don't like the look of it

>>58634339
Basically shitting on MongoDB is easier than learning it, so anyone who is already familiar with SQL will emphasize the cons and ignore the pros.

>>58634358
Relevant: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs

>>58634330
Not him, but I'd like to weigh in regardless.

I recently inherited a Laravel project at work and I was amazed at how well written the entire thing was. I understood basically all the code my predecessor had written in a few hours and at the end of the first day I was familiar enough with the project to be able to continue its development.

Yeah, yeah I know anecdotal and what not, I just wanted to say there are well written PHP projects out there.

>>58634384
What's there to learn? It's just JSON.

>live in tech city
>searched "php" on indeed
>530 results
>searched "node" on indeed
>420 results

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>>58633430
>tfw LAMP stack BMW owner

>>58634339
Mongo still suffers from random loss of data and doesen't inform you of failure, just goes on silently.

Not suited for applications where persistence is a requirement.

>>58634197
It just gets flak because of itss popularity and succesfullness, like everything else on /g/.

Really pick the right tool for the right job, and you'll do fine. 999/1000 cases the only thing holding you back is your own choices and architecture, not the language.

>>58634388
Laravel is garbage, imo, but it is so opinionated that it does sort of force PHP noobs to write decent code.

>>58634399
Are you this naive?

>>58634322
What makes you think node isn't compiled?

>>58634519
It really shouldn't be. SQL is really shitty.

I'm waiting for the multi set query languages my self. You babby set maths SQL faggots are so last gen biz cucks.

>>58633430
>t.
/thread

>>58634667
What do you mean by that?

Most internal projects I've dealt with are "full stack"

Only customer facing shit with lots of eyes or lots of features usually have specialized teams working on certain aspects.

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>this is what the average web developers thread looks like
>this is what the average web developer looks like

Fuck I can't wait till your shitty meme programming bubble bursts and we can talk about non-*aaS model programming again

>>58634888
>fat nerd triggered by gainfully employed men

>>58634888
That day will never come.

Long gone are the days of deploying/upgrading software to transient employee machines.

SaaS is literally because of how shit that is to do.

>>58633430
>Not making 120k with a simple LAMP+JS stack
Hahahahaha get rekt with ur shitty pajeet stack

>>58634888

You're an idiot. Web apps are perfect for SaaS. non-SaaS stuff is and will always be used, too. I don't even know what youre point is, honestly. You sound so stupid it's alarming.

>>58635511
i want t ostart webdevelpoing with lamp where do istart? im a CS student at KCL in London, i have some basis but i need to know webdevelpoment

>>58633430
Swap Mongo for literally any relational DB (Postgres, or mssql is actually not bad if you have a Windows environment),

>>58633430
My stack is

Cassandra
Ur/Web
Nginx
TempleOS

>>58635557
Subscription based software release is literally cancer.

>>58634242
>My school isn't teaching JSON
Shit tier school.

Honestly all of these NoSQL and JS frameworks/libraries/whatever are just cancerous shithouses that were thrown together to be cool, hip an fly yet are just rolling development turds with more-often-than-not over complicated 'hipster' sytnax such as 'jsx' which is just utter shite, doesn't flow well, causes your code to become convoluted.

>>58634015
>>non-functional

what a faggot

>>58635915
>Ur/Web
kys my man you're the worst scum on this planet. Not even the mongodb webscale jockeys are a match for you.

>>58634242
>>58636044
>teaching JSON
it's a fucking data format with a spec that can fit on a single sheet of paper (double-sided, maybe). what the fuck is there to "teach"?

>>58634339
MongoDB does not give you ACID. It's a horrible choice for anything where keeping all the data intact matters.

>>58636445
not to mention it's slow af

>>58633758
Use object oriented programming for database access and not have to write a single line or SQL.

>>58636553
This attitude is why simple CRUD apps are now slow as shit.

>>58636919
Actually Python runs faster than php.

>>58636919
>implying OOP/ORM causes a significant performance hit
>implying fucking PHP is faster than anything anon listed

>>58636992
>>58636998
I'm talking about orm, not the language compilation/interpretation/jitting speed.
>implying OOP/ORM causes a significant performance hit
I'm sure if you conform to absolute best practices at all times and frequently take steps back to understand what kind of queries your OOPified code is actually resulting in, you can probably get by with a minor performance hit.

But the main reasons ORM is popular are 1. You don't have to understand what the SQL is doing and 2. You don't have to understand SQL at all. This usually results in obscenely unperformant access patterns when everything could have been much faster and no less readable with a few lines of actual SQL and a data-driven design.

>>58637091
You do realize php can also be written shitty too? And people who work with php are more likely to write shit code than other languages, because most people start on php since it's easy but realize it's limitations and that it's slow.

>>58633430

Windows Server 2016
IIS 10
MSSQL 2016
ASP.NET MVC 5

>freetards will hate this

>>58637150
I don't know why you think I'm defending PHP. I was criticising ORMs, a mostly language-independent concept.

>>58637243

oh god no

stay away from .net

no point in learning M$'s shitty layer on top of everything. Stay far far away

>>58633430
No thank you, I'll stick to C/C++ back-end, fuck people, how they interact with my program is not my job, we have interns for that UI shit

>>58637451
Let me guess, you've never actually used .NET or programmed in a professional setting?

Why do they call those "stack" developers?

Isn't it just a typical web developer shit? database, css, js, html, ssi?

Why did they have to make it so hipsterish?

>>58637706
It is just typical developer shit. To me it just seems like a fancy way to say "I'm a competent developer"

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>not InterBase + Delphi + Atozed IntraWeb
Shiggy Diggy

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A CHALLENGER APPEARS

>>58637243
>ASP.NET MVC 5
Deprecated for ASP.NET Core.

>>58638219
My next project will use Core. Pretty great that apps can now self-host

>>58637451
I've got bad news for you then - enterprise is going to go ham with .NET the moment it is actually fully usable in a Linux environment

How should I get into web dev if I've mainly done C/C++ with a little Java and Python in between?

>>58638627
Get a respectable job while you can.

>>58638627
ATAC stack.
ASP.NET Core + TypeScript + Aurelia + C#

We're on the COKE stack at work.

C#, Oracle, Knockout, Entity

>>58638627

You learn ColdFusion.

>>58638627

https://www.webtoolkit.eu/wt

>not writing your own js framework
fuckin plebs the lot of ya

Full stack dev here. Started with MEAN, when Angular 2 came out I moved to React as my front end framework, and recently I started using Vue, which is basically a better react that's not tied to shitty facebook, recently stopped using node + express in favor of mostly pure golang for the backend. Been learning SQL (sqlite, mysql) for the hell of it, but the way noSQL works is clearly superior and Mongoose and Redis are the only nosql databases I've used.

I want to build a modern app using Go + Postgres + Redis + Vue, that's going to be an alternative to youtube and twitch.

>>58639079
STOP ENCOURAGING MORE FUCKING JS FRAMEWORKS

>>58638790
Don't listen to this guy HE'S A MICROSOFT SHILL

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>>58639144
>tfw using w2ui + PHP

>>58639117
>Enslaved by his framework

LMAO framelets

>>58639174
How am I enslaved?

>>58639186
And of course you don't even recognize it, you framecuck xD

>>58639117
>Go / Vue
brofist, m8

BTFO the Meme.js shitters.

>>58639117

> golang
Enjoy the autism

> we need another youtube
nigga please

>>58639224
>BTFO the Meme.js shitters (plural)
>implying it isn't just me hyperposting
TEP ZAZ TROLD X'D

>>58633458
>SQLite
>not MariaDB

How the fuck do you people keep up with all those js frameworks. I though Angular was "the" framework to use and now am just confused.

>>58638599

fuck should i learn .NET CORE then?

>>58634407
you do realize you can get a BMW for like 10k if you want a shitty one or less than 30k if you get a 3 series off of lease. i paid 30 for a CPO 2013 335i that had been a lease return

>>58639358
Do you enjoy sucking Microsoft dick?
Because that's how you end up with Microsoft's fat, senior-citizen enterprise dick in your orifices.

>>58639442

good point

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>>58639340
It doesn't take long to learn them, at least enough to use them.

I was initially kind of overwhelmed to begin with by how many there are, and also felt the need to know how every single one worked under the hood. However, I've kind of resigned myself to assuming the framework does what it says, and if I have to learn about the inner workings at some point in the future I will.

I jump between API development and UI dev so it's already a massive context switch between the two. I don't have the mental ability to grok both completely. I imagine if you worked more on the UI side it would be easier to spend the time to learn the innards of all these js frameworks.

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>not using jhipster
Kys

>>58639358
Yes.
.NET Core is entirely self-hosted, so you can use web technologies (ASP.NET MVC, HTML, CSS, JavaScript) to build desktop applications.
That means that enterprise can have web applications and desktop applications using the exact same stack, which saves them a shitton of money.

>>58634322
Why not use erlang? Too hard for Pajeet?

>using PHP instead of Perl

>>58639940
>tfw cpanel-driven shared hosts killed Perl
>tfw cpanel is written in Perl
It took until PHP 7 to do things that Perl has been doing for a decade. The wrong language won

>>58636494
there's a faster version, it's unofficial though. it's called mangoDB

https://github.com/dcramer/mangodb

>>58635947
Doesn't have to be a subscription model.

Look at Google. (Search, Gmail, Google Apps - these are all SaaS)

>>58639340
I dunno I don't even pay that much attention to the framework of the month, I'm more interested in web components.