You LITERALLY can't find a flaw without using memes.

>>58602140
you LITERALLY cannot use Python to develop android or iPhone applications.

>>58602140

0.1 + 0.2

>>58602153
https://kivy.org/#home

Your move, faggatron.

Dynamic typing makes it hard to catch bugs static typing would catch instantly. It also makes refactoring really hard.

Also no concurrency.

>>58602140
Janitors literally can design and implement better languages than that.

No strict compiler, lots of run-time errors, single-line lambdas, duck-typing results in frequent mistakes, it's slow, "self" everywhere, global variables are kind of confusing at times, schism between Python 2 and 3.

Still love it as a pseudo-code language though.

> unironically not coding on Visual Studio

>>58602140
You're right, since Python is a meme and one has to use something to know its flaws.

>>58602205
not an argument

>>58602191
I'm a janitor

Can confirm

>>58602140
A flaw: It's slow as fuck.

It's still the best language in its niche: small scripting language for C hackers to get stuff done.

>>58602202

> Using microcuck tools for development

>>58602488
>implying speed actually matters in today's environment

Whereas development time is actually valuable. As we still only have 24 hours in a day, but super computers and SSDs.

>>58602488
>small scripting language for C hackers
That's Perl bro.

Non statically typed languages are inherently bad for anything that's bigger than Fizz Buzz.

>>58602513
Yeah, that's why operational systems and game engines and software running in supercomputer clusters are all written in Python.

Oh wait, they're not, they're written in C and often times Assembly because guess what, speed still matters, and it's going to start to matter even more now that we're close to the end of Moore's law.

>>58602554
It matters in some cases, nigger-pants.

But to claim across the board that it's a notable, or even limiting factor is retarded. Python fulfills most needs, you can use a more low-level language if you require it, but more often than not it won't be necessary.

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distributing, multi-platform

I wrote an application, how will you go about distributing in a simple, foolproof, reliable way, supporting python3, and lets say PyQt5

>>58602532
It's not. Perl is for sysadmins. Python was literally created to be a scripting language more suitable for actual programmers.

I'll bite, the whole Py2 vs Py3 has been a total disaster in my opinion, the poorly designed CPython interfaces for native extensions kind of force a CPython lock in (though it has been improving recently). PyPy still doesn't support Python 3.5. Python 3.5 standartifies type annotations and yet decides to have the interpreter completely ignore them (yes, optional static typing has been a long time requested feature since it helps avoid so many bugs).

>>58602536
That's a dumb opinion.

>>58602488
Reference implementation (CPython) is slow-ish, but you don't generally want to use Python (or any dynamic language) for CPU bound operations, PyPy makes it a bit bettter but still not that great (and see what I said above).

>>58602576
>I'll bite, the whole Py2 vs Py3 has been a total disaster in my opinion

It was but it's over now.

We have Python 3.6 and the nightmare will be gone almost entirely very soon.

>>58602140
Python as a language is good. Python as a runtime (i.e. performance) is dog shit

>>58602681
ur mums pussy is good senpai

>>58603078
Her perfomence was dog shit tho

it's slow

If it had the speed of C or even Java and C++ it would be a great language.

Golang is a more C-like python that is much faster.

Go is the current best language that's worth learning if you want to be employed.

/thread

>>58602140
funny how you said that with TWO dumbass memes in just one sentence.

>>58602140
global interpreter lock
/thread

>>58602171
Have you tried?

Not really good for other than small demos.

Can you point to any application in the play store actually built with it?

It's slow, it's dynamic and there isn't a good Python IDE.

>>58603211
>Go is the current best language that's worth learning if you want to be employed.
Go is fine but Rob Pike, despite being smart pretty much forces his opinions and personal beliefs on all Go users. Also:
>"lol no generics"
>you're forced to use static linking
>really difficult to use OOP patterns, you could argue that OOP is bad but a lot of people would also argue that OOP is good.
>go standard library calls syscalls directly instead of going through libc or libsystem_kernel (on OSes where the system call ABI isn't even stable) and breaks in fantastic ways when the OS vendor decides to switch some syscall numbers around
>small ecosystem compared to Python, mostly useful for concurrent serverside applications

>Golang is a more C-like python that is much faster.
Except in all the places it's not (no real OOP, interfaces aren't a real replacement, no exceptions forcing you to write tons of error handling boilerplate like you would in C, totally different type system, totally different and non-native "threading" model). But yeah it's faster but it's also an entirely different language.

>Go is the current best language that's worth learning if you want to be employed.
You pulled that out of your ass.

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>>58603211
>Go is the current best language that's worth learning if you want to be employed.
Just how delusional are you?

I really tried to like it, but I there are some things that annoy me
>passing self to a method every time
>underscore methods are ugly
>why is join defined on string and not on collections?
>list(map(function, list)) instead of list.map(function).toList() reads like shit
>shit tier lambdas
>methods with one underscore are supposed to be private, still see people using them
>Zed Shaw
>python 2 vs 3

>>58602140
>GIL
>Python3
>BFDL

>>58603434
Because you can only join collection of strings. You have to call str every time

>>58602569
Unix using wheel.
Windows exe using pyinstaller.

>>58603434

 [function(i) for i in list] 

reads better and you can switch to () if you want an iterator instead

>shit tier lambdas
Yes, the Dutch guy won't let them make it better

>Underscore
Yes, people are idiots

>>58602569
I used to use py2exe in windows and just a tar.gz in Linux.

>>58602177
>Also no concurrency.
>what is asyncio

>>58602140
too slow for high-end softwares

where i should move from python?
and at what point i should move?

>>58603607
Is it still bounded by the GIL?

There might be concurrency but no parallelism in CPython. And all the implementations that actually break out of the Gil are stuck in Python2 limbo.

>>58603377
https://github.com/kivy/kivy/wiki/List-of-Kivy-Projects

>>58603419
>and there isn't a good Python IDE.

Pycharm by Jetbrains literally has everything you need. It's practically Visual Studio for python, cross-platform too.

>>58603640
Depends, are you going for web apps? Maybe Go. Are you going for desktop? C++ with Qt. Mobile? Then Java.

>>58603645
>Is it still bounded by the GIL?
who cares, fact is uvloop benchmarks are impressive

>>58603640
>where i should move from python?
>and at what point i should move?

Whatever best suits your need.

Why move at all if it's working for you?

>>58603211
>Go is the current best language that's worth learning if you want to be employed

actually that would be Powershell

>>58603671
Django and Flask is good.

You can use PyQT for desktop applications.

There's little need to do anything in C++ these days.

>>58603645
>Is it still bounded by the GIL?
Not him, but no. asyncio is in order to do fully asynchronous platform calls for stuff like io

>There might be concurrency but no parallelism in CPython. And all the implementations that actually break out of the Gil are stuck in Python2 limbo.
Most stuff you actually need to do in parallel is stuff you do outside Python anyway, like io. The stuff in Python is just the glue to put things together.

For example, you don't need to loop through a bunch of sockets manually in Python. You use some underlying framework that handles the accept calls on sockets and some initial bootstrapping, and then you can aggregate the events together and have an event loop in python the same way epoll or kqueue works on a system level, only more sophisticated and with more offloading functionality.

>>58603699
>For example, you don't need to loop through a bunch of sockets manually in Python. You use some underlying framework
stop pajeeting this hard

>>58603677
>>58603671
started learning """programming"""" last year read few /g/ meme books,
Now looking thru algorithms was thinking about java, but i don`t want to become a pajeet

>>58603743
what the fuck is a pajeet you retard

Why don't you actually give something a try and decide if you like it or not and if it suits your needs instead of listening to memes from 4chan?

>>58602471
You're the Lily guy?

>>58603761
pajeet as a incompetent indian code monkey.

>>58602554
I couldn't agree Moore.

>>58603743
Give Common Lisp a try
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Lisp
https://common-lisp.net/
https://common-lisp.net/tutorials/

>>58603826
And java is inherently a Pajeet language? Or does it somehow turn people into Indian code monkeys?

>>58603743
>he fell for microsoft's anti-java shill tactics

>>58603864
Both

>>58602140
Indentation as code blocks.
That's a meme on itself.

>>58602140
Its slow when using it to do large calculations. Then again so is C...
But thats what Fortran is for I guess.

>>58603743
>listening to memes from 4chan
>started "learning" programming last year but has zero idea where to go
Yep, typical neo-4chan retard pretending to give a shit about a major board topic.

>>58603647
>Puzzles and flappy bird clones
Ok, I got told.

>>58603869
But anon, Microsoft is full with Pajeets too. C# is also a Pajeet language. They just want Pajeets to use C# instead of Java.

>>58603929
This Pajeet meme is really getting old now.

It's about as unfunny as appending 'cuck' as a post-fix to everything.

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>>58603645
Python uses the multiprocessing module for parallelism and circumventing the GIL

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>>58603992

>Doing some project at work
>Decide to switch it from PHP to Python because it's to complicated to do what I need in PHP
>Start programming
>Google "do-while in python" - find "how to emulate do-while in python"
>Google "switch-case in python" - find "how to emulate switch-case in python"
Wtf? why doesn't it have these basic features? Why lambdas are so crappy?

>>58602140
slow as shit

>>58603434
>why is join defined on string and not on collections?
It makes more sense to define one string method that takes any iterable, than defining a join method in every collection implementation.
It's unconventional, but I rike it.

>>58604531
>why doesn't it have these basic features?
It doesn't make difference in practice, KISS wins here.

>Why lambdas are so crappy?
Legit flaw, but you can just define a function locally and it will form a closure

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>>58603992
t. Pajeet cuck

>>58604113
Do the process share memory or is it copying bytes all over?

>>58602171
kivy is exceptional

>>58603434
class methods
why so bad - there is more 'boilerplate' on java
"self" is passing the class instance as a parameter to the class method. It doesn't have to be called "self". Thinking about it .. it's not even boilerplate - understand what it is there for. 'self' = current object instance. you are passing reference to the class instance to it, making it useable as a method of that class

>>58603467
put those strings in a list and then use "join"?

>>58604113
threads are still concurrent
just don't over-use them, right
use processes for parallism .. correct

>>58602140
performance? ever heard of that one?

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>>58605307
It uses COW so if you load some large dics or lists and then starts some processes, the memory won't change unless you change one of those dics or lists.

>tfw b'

>>58603377
> small demos
kivy is a mature, expansive product
the professional solution for deployment using python on android
it is also exceptionally well designed

>>58602140
I can:

It is not C.

>>58606342
horses for courses
using a hammer to crack a nut
thread on 'C' 'cos it's not assembly'

C systems will become maintainable
with C you have to write everything
with assembly you have to write the world

python has most things you would need to write, achieved in the sanest, most scientific way possible

people posting in criticsm of python here, haven't used (or evaluated) it. Very typical of /g/ flames. 95pc enthusiasts. people who are browsing around a subject but have never engaged.

>>58606454
C systems less maintainable (I meant)

>>58606454
Unless it is C it is shit.

I am already mad that I had to program in Java, C++ and Matlab in university.

Nothing of them was more enjoyable then C.

functional programming

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>>58606488
>this fucking guy

>>58603419
Pycharm, vim.

>>58603419
VIM, EMACS.... etc.

With 10 mins google search and 1-2 min implementation on a fresh install you can get the best Python IDE there is + waaay more than actually any IDE can give you.

>>58602140
>cannot easily modify modify its own AST
>most implementations slow
>foo(self) -- LOL
>lambda is fundamentally broken
>white-space matters


You walked into that m8

>>58607830

to be fair there have been libraries that have taken hours for me to fix out of Common Lisp's quicklisp repos whose equivalents loaded instantly in python

>>58603420
You don't know shit about OOP

>>58603743

stop listening to 4chan my man! Java is good a good choice in many cases!

>>58607922

shhh, go back to tending your enterprise relational database

>>58602140
kinda slow

For User Interactions

>>58602140
Can't find a flaw on what? Python 2 or 3? It's 2 languages.

>>58602140
Python is a meme in itself, so yeah.

It's easy to get shit done with it

also the availability of libraries and and easiness of understanding them make it a great language to get shit done fast, assuming you're using Django of course

the problem however is on it's speed, becomes a problem when you have a website with a couple of thousands concurrent users and you want to implement a cool feature just to have Nginx shit itself

However we've found combining Python and Node.js to be great, by measuring performances of both and implementing whichever works better

some times it's double the effort but it's worth it

With how things are going, specially with ECMAscript 6 for Node 7, we might be switching from mainly using Python with Node on the side to Mainly Node with Python on the side due to libraries not yet available on Node

>>58602140
Looks like shit

>>58609867
>the problem however is on it's speed, becomes a problem when you have a website with a couple of thousands concurrent users and you want to implement a cool feature just to have Nginx shit itself

I mean....reddit.com and Instagram are both ran off Django and they seem to do pretty well handling tens of millions of requests.

>>58603699
>Most stuff you actually need to do in parallel is [...] io.
spotted the web dev
>>58604668
>KISS = finding workarounds for missing features
and the GNOME user

>>58602140
it's slow but it has its place. You can also integrate c code into it to speed it up.

>>58602140
The syntax is literal shit

>>58602140
It's a child of a stupid philosophy "dev time > good software" that led us to the mess of today. Simplifying everything doesn't lead to better dev time, but to worse devs

2.7 / 3 divide. Definitely the biggest problem with Python.

>>58614278
We are living in the year of our lord 2017.
The divide is barely a problem.
http://py3readiness.org/