>junior developers used to be fresh CS graduates programming

>>58589268
>are you a male programmer?
http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Male_Programmer_Privilege_Checklist
>are you also cisgendered? (i.e. not a transexual)
http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Cisgender_Programmer_Privilege_Checklist
>do you work on free/open source software? bad news
http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Open_Source_Male_Privilege_Checklist

>software engineer without being an engineer

why do americans do this

>>58589268
>When will it all come crashing down, /g/?
>implying it hasn't already

>>58589268
No legitimate company takes these people seriously.

>>58590250
Intel

>>58590265
Intel mostly hires Pajeets, which are much more competent than the average bootcamp grad.

>>58589919
because americans fucked up their entire education system, so they literally think that software developers and engineers are entirely exchangeable terms

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>>58590280
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/technology-in-education/programs-for-women-and-girls.html
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/technology-in-education/girls-and-stem.html
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/technology-in-education/technology-empowerment.html

There's so many shit devs, and it's only getting worse.

My company usually has a 15:1 interview to hire ratio, and that's after screening resumes. It's amazing how many people will straight up lie about what they know, or think they're an expert because they've created a basic web site.

>>58590397
Intel is funding it, but they're not eating their own dogfood. Intel pays for them to go to a bootcamp but doesn't hire them, aside from the 1-2 that are actually talented.

>>58590480
>My company usually has a 15:1 interview to hire ratio
That's actually extremely impressive.

>>58590493
It's fucking annoying is what it is, because we waste a lot of time every time we need to hire someone new. Each person gets interviewed by 4-5 devs for 30-45 minutes each. Multiply by 15 over the course of weeks and that's a lot of time that isn't being spent on work.

That said, the process has largely worked, and we haven't hired someone who's worthless for a few years (used to be a problem when management thought that whoever was the first candidate in the door should be hired - they learned their lesson after having to fire 4-5 people because they were incompetent).

>>58589841
And they wonder why people hate them and ignore them as much as possible. These libs have a mental disorder.

>>58590250
They hire them to meet a quota or keep someone like Jesse Jackson happy. They will dump them into useless or dead end projects and let them rot.

manager at IBM
have several visible projects
great team of 5 (4 men, 1 woman) all veteran developers

new edict, here's your new Mary Sue developer
I am literally told by my 3rd line manager that Mary Sue will make great contributions to my team
and they expect her to make immediate contributions to the most complex projects I am responsible for
Mary Sue has never worked in a team before
Mary Sue has never used a SCCS, Version Control, GitHub

First week she is mostly attending new employee orientation events
My team is like WTF, I can't really say outright that she was a Gift I can't return
Mary Sue is like a deer frozen in headlights
Mary Sue does not understand Encapsulation or OOP in general
She confesses that she wants to work on Multimedia "stuff", not algorithms for distributed XML query

See her outside the building with new other hires
She's crying
Everyone on my team is more than twice her age
FML

>>58589268
>>58589841

This is why I decided to go to medical school instead of working in tech. I know a girl who struggled on a fizzbuzz in any language screener and somehow landed an internship at Amazon.

>>58590519
You need to streamline that process. You should implement some standard test or set of questions that they have to answer up front to weed out the idiots and liars.

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>>58591168
Enjoy working with Tyrone and Paco.

>>58591174

Literally says in his post that this is after screening resumes

>>58590519
I think you can always improve on the process, but that being said a 15:1 ratio is still exceptionally good. Even in industries where it's so easy to tell whether someone will work or not (ie retail, even they spend 30min+ per candidate), they're dealing easily in the hundreds:1 range.

>>58591184
They don't practice. They end up doing "activism" or "community health." Medical schools use race, but competitive residency sure as hell doesn't.

>>58591228
sure thing

>>58589268
>...not because I'm a bad person or a bad engineer
I guarantee she's both.

Her "sassy" persona is probably only due to the fact that she's a drain on society and would rather convince herself she's oppressed than try to change or improve herself.

The sad part is she'll probably get hired due to some diversity program, confirming her delusions and contributing to the problem at large, just to meet a statistic on a spreadsheet somewhere for corporate.

>>58591228
Most posters on here don't know the difference and just think that if black people are admitted at a higher rate to any field, they must be becoming top experts in the field.

Realistically though, overwhelming majority of them are just going to be grade school teachers.

>>58591184
>Using proportional measurements without showing raw numbers next to them

It sure is lying with statistics 101 in here.

>graduate CS bachelors 3 years ago
>done some exercises but never developed anything remotely useful (e.g. website, simple program, etc.)
>work for company unrelated to field, doing basic grunt work like wiring (telecommunications)
>quit after 2 years because of shit pay
>jobless for 1 year

If I start practicing right now, what are my chances of landing a software engineering / web dev / app dev job for the next two months? Granted, I'm out of school for nearly three years now.

Cis male btw.

>>58592077
You have some hardware experience to go with the CS, that is always a plus.

Just type up a nice CV embellishing yourself. I had a lot less to work with than you have

>>58592288
>2 years

didn't even see this part. For a young person these days this is great

If you don't find a job you must be autistic

>>58591151
It's your fault. You know that, right?

>>58592077
>practicing
Try to do some fun project, so you can show them some reference of your work. You could also contribute something nice to an OSS project. This works great on applications.

Is there a field where whitey ISN'T getting shafted? Civil Engineering? EE?

>>58592077
Start fixing yourself

>>58591151

Just fire her. Assuming there's true equality, she should be fired as a male junior would be.

>>58589268
>>now it's mostly 2-month bootcamp survivors
IBM used to say that they could make a programmer out of anyone in 6 weeks.
Suzy and Sammy COBOL. The code they wrote is still running.

>>58591120
>mental disorder
lol no, they just take advantage of stupid people

>>58590480
>think they're an expert because they've created a basic web site.
I know I'm far from expert, but, what am I if I've made a whole website by myself, i.e., frontend and backend?

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>>58590250
>No legitimate company takes these people seriously.

feminism fucked the country up. Hopefully now we can put an end to this shit!

>>58592077
I'm sorry son, your resume looks great but you're just not ethnic enough.

>>58593471
legitimate company, not poojews

>>58589268
This shit is why I make my living as a boilermaker.

>>58590305
I am not challenging that notion; could you elaborate on what the difference is?

>>58593471
What does that article have to do with boot camp graduates?

(((Liz)))

>>58589841
>i have a mental disorder
>you're the problem

>>58593471
yeah, well, (((((((((((Intel)))))))))))))))

Error: paren mismatch

>>58589841
>>58591120
>>58593212
I want to put really subtle troll privileges in there to see what happens.

>You are able to actually program, unlike everyone else on this site who just bombs interviews and blames everyone else

>You are able to write this really complicated thing called a "fizz buzz" I keep hearing about in these interviews I keep bombing without having a bachelor's in math

>Computers do not discriminate against you, this one time I was trying to put 80,000,000 db records in a list and it said it didn't have enough memory. This is basically sexism because it wouldn't have done this to a male

>Keyboards are too big for female hands, they are all made for males, because this is a good ole boys club

>>58589268
>When it will all come crashing down, /g/?

stay home pajeet, it's totally going to crash soon

>>58589841
> Being able to listen to speakers refer to non-gendered items as defaulting to male (such as calling an inanimate software construct "this guy") without being reminded that you are a minority gender in the room.

holy shit. fuck this article.

>tfw couldn't get a junior developer position until 2+ years after graduating from University.

>>58594809
Is the thread not about companies wasting money on leftist pandering?

>>58594948
>junior developers used to be fresh CS graduates programming since 12
>now it's mostly 2-month bootcamp survivors
What does that have to do with leftist pandering?

>>58589268
>be me
>FUCKING WHITE MALE
>no CS degree
>deadend job
>start dicking around with coding sites like 18 months ago
>do CS50 with LaunchCode
>build some CRUD projects
>get "apprenticeship" (cheap labor) at local startup
>coworkers coach me up fast, basically full language immersion but for web development
>am now salaried full stack developer
>shit rules

>>58589268
It already has. I regularly interview and hire candidates for a fortune 500 company and I always skip over the boot camp kids. No 4 year degree in CS or software engineer? Resume shredded.

>>58589268
>software engineer
>bootcamp
What the actual fuck Richard

>>58592077
Create a portfolio. Contribute to some open source projects. Highlight that work in the portfolio.

>>58594998
>4 year bachelor
>learning anything useful
wew lad

though agreed, it's still way better than a bootcamp

>>58592077
try to think of a program or web-app. it should serve some purpose. try to think of a problem you have, and how a good program/app would solve it, or if you can't find one - think of something that's tedious or boring or whatever and how it could be automated/improved/made easier with a program/app.

now that you got an idea, implement it. don't ask how, just go. if you get stuck, use the search engine. read. experiment. try, fail, try again, get something working.
don't stop halfway because the work got tedious. get this shit fucking finished.

when you don't have commercial experience, having a fully-finished project, one that's done from the ground up, everything designed by yourself, and working - even if the code is bad - is way better than having a fuckton of small projects whose only purpose is to demonstrate that you clicked your way through a "1 week crash course on technology X".

>>58594998
>CS kid fantasizes about the value of his degree

>>58592077
How the fuck do people get CS degrees without ever building functional projects for fun?

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>be laid off tradesman looking for a career change
>know PLC programming and good with computers so I'm thinking about getting a CS degree
>keep reading these threads

I feel like I'm making a terrible error and the tech industry is a bloated mess that will pop soon like the dot com bubble

>>58595118
The degree is probably a waste of time. Get the job first.

I'm thinking about getting my CS degree now. I'm a college dropout and have been a web dev for three years

>>58595217
The problem is almost every job ad requires a degree of some sort or at minimum a 2 year diploma, and considering how saturated the job market is I can safely assume I won't even get passed the resume filters

>>58595118
If you having fun just do it, to learn programming is never a wasted skill besides in the next 4 years the world will blow up anyway.
Just have fun don't sweat a job too much if you are already good with computers you could likely switch to anything junior in sysadmin/networking after some reading if programming jobs don't work out.

>>58595217
been in similar situation, my advice: do it. you can learn quite a lot (maybe not in depth, but well, if you want depth, study by yourself) and quite a lot of big-name companies have recruitment rules set in stone and will reject anyone without a degree. You never know when having that diplomma may come in handy.

although do consider finances. I'm in yurop and my semester tuition is less than my monthly salary; in the US, the price will probably be way higher.

>>58595113

>Entering college
>"Hmmm, what do I major in?"
>*See that CS has high salary*
>CS it is!"

>>58595113
Why would I work for free? Programming isn't something that's fun.

>>58595234
The resume filter is actually not applying because you think you're underqualified. Apply anyway. Build a good project to demonstrate skills, put it on GitHub, mention it in your resume before your job history. Fire that resume out left and right and eventually it'll hook somewhere.

>>58595275
My concern is getting stuck in middling positions. Seems the only people in management have their degrees. There are high paid developers with no college education but they're boots on the ground until they retire.

>>58589268
>.new

what is this supposed to mean?

t. senior developer 10 years industry experience

>>58595330
Those high paid developers with no college are usually in there because of connections or they were talented from the start, most people that dropout either become NEETs or work at some shitty job.

>>58595287
>programming
>not fun
REEEEEE

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>>58595287

GTFO

>>58595357
it means nothing, its just another TLD

>>58595366
But anon I'm a dropout and my job is nice

I could actually work it until I retire and live comfortably. I want to move up though

>>58589268
You need to understand this goyim:

CS graduate, programmer since 12: Reasonably good programmer -> paygrade = $80,000+

2 month bootcamp survivor: Shitshow -> paygrade = $80,000-

And because the tech industry (or almost any industry) do not care about production anymore, they can get away with lowering the salaries of real software engineers (more supply, than demand) and display good profits in the next quarterly report.

And because of genders and ethnicy they also get some sweet tax deals with the government.

>>58595716
>tfw eastern yurop
>tfw first programming job paid ~$5.5k/year
at- at least the CoL is low, r- right?

>>58590397
off topic: get better taste in gore manga senpai

>>58595716
Where can I get these kinds of magical payrates for junior developer jobs? I just accepted a backend/devops position for 40k a year. Its for a 6 months trial period first, but still. Those kinds of salaries is not normal for an entry level position. Maybe after 3-4 years, but not as a junior.

>>58589268
>React.js is not programming
>Angular.js is not programming
>Node.js is not programming

I'm glad there's someone to do all this grunt work so that real CS grads can focus on real CS stuff.

>>58595287
moshi moshi, Baito desu

>>58592797
You can't fire women! T-that's discrimination!

>>58595860
National average for junior positions is well over $50K. But $80K starting sounds like a silicon valley/SF, Seattle, NY, or Chicago job.

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behold the king of codemonkeys. /g/ can't compete.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmQG_BCiVHU

>>58589268
>When it will all come crashing down, /g/?

It already is. Windows 8 and Windows 10 exist.

>>58595287
t. underage

college is basically working for free >70 hrs/week being a full-time student, learning shit on your own, doing projects, etc.

>>58589268

My wife has a friend exactly like this.

>have boobs
>have vajayjay
>get full ride scholarship to MIT
>get engineering gig making more money in a year than most men see in a decade
>omg this field is so sexist

>>58596027
Nope. Barely attended any classes and played video games most of the time. Graduated and now work a comfy 40 hour a week job, playing video games in my spare time instead of working for free.

>>58595113
studying cs right now and about 95% never programmed/did shit with tech in their life

>>58595953
Yeah, thats as low as ill go after the 6 months is up. If the propose something less im out.

>engineer isnt a protected title in the US

lemao

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>>58589268

>bootcamp
>calling herself an engineer

>>58596120
Expect to be fired with that crass attitude

>>58596120
Same here. I program professionally ~45/hours a week.

When I go home, all I want to do is smoke weed, fuck my girlfriend, and sleep.

>>58596302
Not who you were responding to, but no company would require you to contribute to other shit outside of your job.

I do my job and go home. It's better that way.

>>58596302
I just got a 20% bonus and should be promoted the next review. Project harder.

>>58589841
>privilege
odd word to use instead of "normal"

>>58595023
You learn plenty of useful things in a 4 year degree if your school isn't shit. Also, you show that you have the dedication to finish something.

>>58596188
That's fucking bizarre.

>>58595357
I assumed it was a Ruby thing. She could be a Rails kiddie.

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>>58596302
>enjoys life after spending working days contributing to company
>((((((((((crass attitude))))))))))

>>58596188
>t. cs101

>>58589268
software engineer wages are higher than pre-bubble in the tech hub of the country that is paying third worlders to live there and all the real-estate is owned by foreigners from china.

I recall some old timers lamenting about "business people that only knew spreadsheets being hired as software engineers" before the big pop

who knows. this shit could go on for decades or it could crash tomorrow.

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Which degree will pay more upon graduation?

Math or CS? Assume you have been programming in C since you were 10, have a bunch of diff-eq related projects under your belt.

A dual major in math/cs would affect your hireability in what ways?

>>58591348
>would rather convince herself she's oppressed than try to change or improve herself.
The problem with feminism in general.

>>58595113
It's not easy, though. The department (at least, in my university) culls students all of the time, and that's with a few students on board.

40 students from the first year went down to 15 by the final year, give or take some stragglers from other departments. The culled ones can't keep up with the coursework and/or just plain suck at it. A good chunk (me included) can do fizzbuzz but can only code on Python and be absolutely shit on things like OOP. The mostly talented ones are people you don't expect to be.

You can survive with just fizzbuzz, but your odds are greater if you know a language. Even my teachers suck at code but can detail an algorithm perfectly through fizzbuzz.

>>58589268
not soon enough

just need the multi-level marketing firms to start crashing, as those are the companies that contract out to all these fucking cancerous web dev startup snowflakes

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>>58595910
I believe you have momentarily forgotten that there is a new President.

>>58595868
>Buying into the node is a meme meme
>Thinks hes a good programmer

Promises 2 hard 4 u and now u gotta cope? :(

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>>58589268
>>58589841
>>58590397
Question, what's stopping my g i r l f r i e n d from getting A+/going to a bootcamp and just joining any random shitshow and earning 40k a year? How can her and I take advantage of her female privilege? Can someone direct me to the "be female and win at life" button so I can do nothing but stay home and play with computers all day while she gets a cushy job?

>>58593392
Let me guess: you have made a whole website, but had no specification on what it should behave like when done, didn't follow a schedule, never heard about software process and not once thought about how to make your code maintainable or fast.

You are worse than a third year computer engineering student (can only tell for the college I attended to)

you guys think it's bad with programming, but it's even worse with engineering. in programming you at least have to learn a technical skill to graduate. in engineering they just ride on the shoulders' of their male classmates and then get better job offers with worse grades and no experience.

>>58596027
>paying someone else thousands of dollars
>free

It's worse than working for free.

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>>58589268
Anyone else ever considered declaring themselves a "lesbian woman" to collect all that free gibs? I'd be lying if I said I hadn't.

>>58589841
> when you are not even getting brownie points anymore for being a gay software developer
I am so sorry that I am Cis, Liz.

>>58597135
>$300k starting
>any job I want

>>58594871
None of that is particularly subtle my friend.

>>58599633
How do they pass their exams? At my school engineering is tough as fuck.

>>58599574

Women don't have it any easier than men in general, it's just that lobbying by people who think women have it worse than men has convinced companies to make a few token jobs where women have it easier than everyone in order to claim that they've conquered sexism. Said jobs aren't available to all women, but instead are given to the most active members of the 'geekfeminist' community in order for them to advocate for the now 'fem-friendly' company they work for whilst turning a blind eye to the passive and active abuses of power made by said company (many of which they willingly become complicit in).

We'd call this union bribery, but A) tumblr feminists don't have unions because attempting to create one might fracture their community and B) programmers don't have unions because attempting to create one might get themselves fired.

>>58599679
I have, I just can't wrap my head around explaining it an a way that doesn't make me sound completely insane.

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>>58589919
>tfw in Canada you have to have a software engineering degree to call yourself a software engineer

>>58599799
>I just can't wrap my head around explaining it an a way that doesn't make me sound completely insane.

That's the beauty of it, though. They hire these insane trannies, so the more you sound like them the better. Just remind them of their CIS privilege and imply that they are bigots if they get worried looks on their faces. The sooner you shut down their logic the better.

>>58595868
>Messes around with some C++ graphics library for a little bit, has never made a production level application servicing thousands of clients because they think they're too good for web programming
"I-I'm a real programmer!"
/g/ is a meme

>>58599926
>not getting hired for having your github filled with FizzBuzz in 30 languages using as few LOC as possible while being absolutely unreadable and unmaintanable
git gud

>>58590250
I'm in charge of hiring at my company. I literally passed over two trans people. Neither finished their multiple degrees and a quick glance at their Facebook told me they just love starting shit. I've got nothing against trans people but if people like this want to be taken seriously in the selection process they need to work on their attitude.

>>58597135
Why are most books a big pill to swallow and usually pretty boring?

If she works in tech, and doesn't study tech at least 9 hours a day,
then that makes her a scammer and a fraud and by that very definition she is a bad person.

>>58589268
I don't think any adult should (write) like (this).
It's fucking childish.

>>58601254
That isn't how she's writing though. I don't see a problem with parentheses.

>>58594998
>No 4 year degree in CS or software engineer? Resume shredded.
Electronic engineer here. Your loss

>>58594788
engineering generally implies a regulated profession, with specific procedures and requirements for obtaining an engineering license. whereas calling yourself a software engineer means basically nothing.

>>58601427
It's fine in informal settings (like this one), but for a formal professional description it's amateurish and childlike.

>>58596696
kinda. most of them are actually interested in the topic tho so I don't really mind. most of the "career" guys are dropping out right now (first semester)

I bet it won't. I bet we will just keep gratuitous amounts of shit software nobody uses.
>>58601535
Well by that definition (we don't use 'engineer' very much in that sense in my native language) there's software engineering in software for cars. I don't remember what their regulations are specifically but they disallow things like recursive calls etc because they're risky propositions.

>>58589841
Aw man these piss me off so much it's unhealthy

When this whole "privilege" thing first became a thing, I was like, yeah, it makes sense, switching the perspective, talking about discrimination not from the view of the victim but of the benefiter, highlighting privileges they enjoy to make them reflect upon how the world might treat them differently than others in ways that are hard to see.

But now the SJW crowd isn't even doing that anymore, but it's always just "your privilege is NOT experiencing THIS and NOT experiencing THAT" and with half of them it's like, that's not even fucking true, I don't hold those privileges, I'm not instantly respected and never called names and everyone listens and takes me seriously just because of my gender...? I fucking wish!

>>58601803
The thing is, some of these are true you know, but most of them are just hairsplitting, just shit that is admittedly because of the norm of a male dominated branche but not in any way offensive.
Like they complain that you get included in "Hey guys" but a few points later they complain if they include you as "Hey guys and girl" or smth like that. just what

>>58601881
You know and I feel, there's even some legitimacy in that, I can see how not being refered to in a speech is unwelcoming, or even how it can be awkward after being corrected and all - but when it says stuff like

>Not being accidentally called by the name of an employee who does not resemble you in any way except for gender.
>Being able to casually say the phrase, "I get it," and be taken seriously and included in the group of "elite" people that "get it."
>Never being asked whether you got lost upon entering a computer science classroom.

That is just not true, I've had that happen! It's just not how it is! You can talk about how you're being discriminated against because that's happened to you but claiming I have the privilege of never having that happen to me is just presumptious as fuck! You evidently don't know enough about my life to make these claims!

>>58589268
>>junior developers used to be fresh CS graduates programming since 12
This was objectively a bad thing, since there's no way a junior development position requires a CS degree.

>>now it's mostly 2-month bootcamp survivors
This is a good thing because of the above. It lowers HR's and hiring agencies' expectations so you no longer need to have a fucking 5 year master degree to write some HTML and angular.js crap which takes literally 5 minutes.

>>58589268
Soon™. At some point their shit code will break and no one will be able to figure out how to fix it.

>just switched my major from chem E to CS a year ago so I could transfer to a 4-year faster
>actually like it
>started working on projects on my own time in C# and JS
>am slowly getting better
>tfw these people have jobs in the field after a 2-month bootcamp

>>58592077
>Cis male btw.
Time to trap it up.
Wear the dress, get success.

>>58599596
I made it in Go, made both the frontend and backend very fast (although it was a small website), the frontend is responsive AND I do progressive enhancement.
it was/is a frontend for tts engines

>had no specification on what it should behave like when done
I more or less wrote what features it should have and obviously knew what it would be useful for

>didn't follow a schedule
nope, it was an experiment, for learning and shit

>never heard about software process
nope

>not once thought about how to make your code maintainable or fast
see above. it's a small website, and very fast

>>58591209
Screening resumes means looking at the bullshit they wrote down. Before bothering to talk with anyone give them real world shit to work on. Yes they can still cheat, but it also gives a lot of insight into work methodology.

>>58595023
It shows commitment, not a lot more. But that is better than someone who was a waitress one week and a coder the next. Just another way to weed out the idiots who can't keep on one path or are likely to hop jobs every year or so. Hiring is expensive, having someone come on and then leave is a fucking pain in the ass.

>>58592077

You can say you were involved in some personal shit at home (ill family member etc) and was not ready to commit to a full time job in your field but now youre ready to start your career.

If youve done IT/software related work over the years, even for friends or family members and school projects too - mention those things.

If you havent then you need to create projects asap, ones that reflect skills and interest in the subset of IT youll be applying for.

Upload them to a git repo, claim youve been working on these projects over those years but just now uploaded them, its not ideal but you cant turn time back.

You need to sell yourself as all these things at once: passionate (despite the gaps), competent (through projects), and ambitious/committed to work in the field (taking a lower offer if needed to get the experience).

Once youve broken into IT (and youre not shit/ fired in a years time) its smooth sailing. Dont fuck it up.

>>58589268
>tfw got straight C's at Purdue CompSci
>tfw still making 75k
>tfw all I do is scrum master and code review
>tfw comfy as fuck job telling pajeets to stop bothering my team
>tfw barely made it through college and I'm going to be happy with my life

>>58604594
>comfy as fuck job
That's not for everyone though. I accepted a very significant decrease in salary for my current job compared to my previous job in order to do something I find more challenging and rewarding.

>>58604594
>tfw got straight C's at Purdue CompSci
>tfw still making 75k
Would you say that this is because it was Purdue?

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>>58597135
>Taking Care of Myself: A Healthy Hygiene, Puberty and Personal Curriculum For Young People With Autism
KEK

>>58592643
To be fair asians are being shafted too now at least

>>58604594
where do you live? 75k would be pretty bad in SF or NYC. It would be a very junior salary in SEA maybe. But I think if you lived in a cheap city and only worked 8 hours a day then that's a pretty great win.

>>58592584
>>58595012
How does one even contribute to an OSS project? Some guy once told me to contribute to something I often use, fair enough, but then I look through the issues and it's all complex as fuck stuff that only someone with a deeper understanding of the code could even attempt, all the easier issues are fixed by the main maintainers very fast.

#JXAtI;=}

>>58604006
The fact that you keep repeating "it's very fast" is already setting off red flag warnings in my head.

Is it secure? Is it maintainable? Is it documented? Can it scale? Is it stable?

For the most part "very fast" for a website is one of your last priorities with corporate development.

>>58604139
Person who wrote the original post here - I was also including a phone screen in the "screening resumes" comment, but admittedly I didn't make that clear.

And phone screens unfortunately only go so far, partially because people often seem to want to give people the benefit of the doubt over the phone.

>>58604621
I'm having trouble getting some folks to believe this when I have interviewed in the past. They will outright ask me about taking a salary cut and I will explain it to them. I know from management at my current organization that they outright won't hire people taking salary cuts.

>>58600078
Ame goes for the witch in the OP's post.

Yes, some of these people love to stir shit up left and right but wonder why they are literally loathed in the real world. Working is usually trying enough without bringing every imaginable agenda to the workplace.

>>58599758
Actually the last one sounds like something they would actually say

>>58591184
BUT WHERE ARE THE NUMBERS?

>>58593471
>By Milo
Oh, Rome truly has fallen.

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>>58589919
Some universities actually offer ABET accredited Software Engineering degrees. That said, the title "engineer" is unregulated in most states though claiming to be "licensed professional engineer" will get you in a boatload of trouble if you aren't actually a PE.

Think Texas is the only state that puts restrictions on who can use the title and even then you can use it for internal job titles.

>>58607042
Yeah my Uni has ABET accredited degrees for both Software Engineering and Computer Science.

>>58591377
Medical schools have a limited number of seats. If race is being used as a primary admissions criteria, people who could have become good doctors are being turned away. That these racially based students don't become doctors doesn't mean there is no harm since they're fall off to the side. it literally means that we have less doctors providing healthcare to the public.

>>58594978
These companies are literally starting to pander to people because of skin colour and genitalia, i.e identity politics, which has become a big part of the left.

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>>58589841
>mfw every time I'm reminded there are people who genuinely care about this shit and feel insulted by it

Fucking surreal.

>>58589841
I don't have a lot of hate in me, but I might just hate these people. I certainly find them repulsive, disgusting, and highly objectionable. Perhaps I also hate them.

>>58589919
It's pathetic.
I've heard managers describe it as aspirational/motivational - tell that to an actual engineer lol.
"Craftsman" is pretty accurate but it sounds precious and it's not going to make anyone feel more deserving of their outsized compensation.
I prefer "programmer". "Software developer" is okay I guess.

>>58606341
I haven't yet contributed to anything open source, but it should be like any project. If you want to work on it you need to be familiar with the code and that familiarization requires a certain amount of effort, it's most likely also going to be pretty tedious and much more boring than actually programming yourself, but it is what it is.

Rather than fixing bugs you could also try to contribute a feature that you would find personally useful.

i have a family member who used his wife's high paying salary to go to a boot camp

then he almost immediately got a job at a place, not where he wanted

he jumped ship as soon as the place he wanted had an opening

they fired him in a month because he literally only did a bootcamp

then the original place took him back

is his a very atypical story?

>>58599806
>tfw I have an iron ring

>>58599574
>what's stopping my g i r l f r i e n d from getting A+/going to a bootcamp
>so I can do nothing but stay home and play with computers all day while she gets a cushy job?

I'm hoping you stop yourself friend cause your (((girlfriend))) is going to cuck you for some other chad exactly one second after she realizes she has the financial advantage

>>58591168
glad your heart's in the right place

>>58606391
>The fact that you keep repeating "it's very fast" is already setting off red flag warnings in my head.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(programming_language)
https://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/go.html
there you go m8

>>58609132
Company A just wants warm-bodies, so they pay crap and end up with code monkeys. Company A is OK with code monkeys as long as the "bottom line" looks good and they can keep warm-bodies around.

Company B needs actual programmers. They probably pay OK-good and expect a ROI that meets their expectations. Code monkeys will not be tolerated.

>>58601757

>disallow recursive calls
They should only disallow non-tail recursion. There is absolutely nothing risky about using tail recursion when built with a modern optimizing compiler.

>>58589841
Jeez, what a retarded 'checklist', please be troll.

>>58593471
No wonder why we have Babby Lake and another 14nm

>>58589268
when trump passing a law that forbids these fiends from reproducing.

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>>58610067
>speaks in memes
>in a thread about employment

I have an offer for 60k, plus full benefits. Is this better than normal for junior dev positions? I see similar postings for 70k+ around the area with benefits and don't want to leave money on the table.

Do companies lower their salary and provide better benefits in their place? Is this trade off worth it in the end?

>>58611997
It's all up to you dumbass.

>>58612050
>it's all up to you
You don't say.

>>58595118

Become a cute trap using striped stockings like everyone on /g/ and use the diversity card to land a good job.

>>58611997

Where do you live and what education do you have?

I think I'd value a good fit over compensation for your first job. You want a couple years of comfortable work and a good reference when you leave.

>>58611997
>Is this better than normal for junior dev positions?

It depends on where you live, really. I graduated 2014 with an is related degree (MIS), so nothing more than dipping toes into the cs realm, and got 55K starting in a non 'programming' spot. Granted, this is in a tech hub city. I've since learned more about data warehousing, associated tools, and java which has propelled me into a development position.

Take the highest pay you can get. Learn everything possible on the job and move around companies if they aren't willing to pay you market rate for your skills. In a few years you'll be in a comfortable position.

>>58601575
Says (you).

>>58599633
>ride on the shoulders' of their male classmates
You mean sleep around?

>>58612129
East coast, kind of a small city. I have 4 year degree from a decent uni.

>I think I'd value a good fit over compensation for your first job.
Well it seems like a really good fit except for the commute (~1hr one way). So would it be a bad idea to ask for a little bit more? It would be nice to have a little bit more money so I can throw it at my car.

>>58612219
>Take the highest pay you can get. Learn everything possible on the job and move around if they aren't willing to pay you market rate for your skills. In a few years you'll be in a comfortable position.
Thanks for this anon. At this point, it's the first offer I have, and it doesn't seem bad since I haven't had a yearly income of >5k per year yet.

>>58612282

Why wouldn't you just move? Get an apartment near your job.

One of the best quality of life improvements you can make in a first world lifestyle is shortening your commute

>>58612282
>Thanks for this anon.
Anything to help. If no other offers are coming your way take the one you have. You can try to counter offer them, but there is a little risk doing that as an unexperienced college grad. However, with a little tact and a decent uni behind you it may be possible.

A huge part of the first job is simply that it is the 'first professional job'. If you linger too long without professional experience it gets really hard to be attractive to companies.

Best of luck my friend.

>>58595113
>tfw only ever programmed puzzles and small bits of code to experiment around new concepts and stuff

>>58594998
For the record, some of the best people I work with don't have degrees and they are some of the best. They aren't bootcamp grads, but you are doing an extreme disservice by tossing every resume without a degree.

I also work for a fortune 500 company.

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>>58614002
>some of the best people I work with don't have degrees and they are some of the best

>>58594998
>I'm HR

Where did you fuck up your career?

>>58589268
You don't need 4 years in CS to be a junior developer. Before bootcamps there were still huge amounts of self-educated "I built my own X, hire me" programmers getting work.

>>58594998
Retard spotted

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>fuck up at uni
>out of school for 3 years now
>take up programming
>sign up for some free bullshit like edx and so
>read post about people have at least degrees
>wondering just fuck all and an hero
a-at least i'm ethnic. seriously though, my plan was to bust my ass coding for at least 3-5 years but if companies care for a degree then what the fuck is the point.

>>58615816
not holding a degree won't bar you from all jobs. just a significant amount of them.

>>58589919
I remember when I was studying, and worked part time.
One time I was filling in for a cook at a bank. The local receptionist had the title of Welcoming Expert or some shit. The cooks thought that shit was disgusting, so they put a note on the door to the kitchen that said "Access for Kitchen Engineers only".

And now, it's reached the US too.

>>58589268
>codemonkey since 2013
>had online course 3 month ago
Do i even want to read that brainless spaghetti code?

>>58595759
Dude, you get to live with Eastern Euro prices. CoL is a legitimate great advantage for you.

Norwegian salaries for people with higher education are lower than trade school people's, if you look at a whole life. (And trade school is part of high school.)

They go to HS for 4 years (2 of which is as an apprentice, where they get paid), and by a ripe young age of 21, they make enough money to buy a house and start a family.

Meanwhile Per Programmer spends 3 years in HS, 5 at university, and gets a job that pays slightly more than the carpenter's at 23. And then he gets to pay back the student debt.

It's pretty fucking obvious that you don't go to university to make money. You become an electrician, HVAC carpenter or similar if that's your option.

Those guys make ~$3 500/month as a starting wage at 19. Which is more than they'd make in Poland, hence we're currently drowning in Kurwas.

>>58616025
Where do Americans who managed to get a programming and/or webdev job that allows them to move elsewhere move to? Is Norway one of the countries?

>>58604006
My website that I made in Java, using lambdas, streams and nomads everywhere, that checks security on every single page you enter, which may or may not involve calling the backing rdbms is very fast.

It's called "not including shitty advertisements everywhere".

Websites in Ruby and Python can also be very, very fast without much work being done optimizing it, and those are legitimately slow languages. (They do have other features to make up for them. Not a fan personally, but I'm not a hateful person.)

Speed isn't the first objective.

>>58616072
Probably not. Norway pays less for highly educated labour.

I would probably double my pay if I moved to San Fran, but as a nationalistic patriot, I would rather live at home with my own people. I like Norway and Norwegian culture and would not enjoy living in a foreign culture among foreigners. (Sweden/Denmark would be okay, I guess.)