Is it a waste of time and money to get into Bitcoin mining?

>>57834079
The gold rush is already over, you don't have a chance to complete anymore.

You're a few years late

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>find out about bitcoin in 2010
>interested in the technological aspects of it
>talked to my dad about how neat the idea of it is
>dad talks somewhat excitedly about investing in bitcoin
>me: "nah, sounds too risky"
>mfw didn't invest in bitcoin in 2010

>>57834079
The "value" of "bitcoin" is backed in what exactly? Because it looks just like any old bubble, all of them do burst eventually.

>>57834221
low quality bait

>>57834079
Yes

>>57834079
Yes, it is being mined on an industrial scale now. The pool returns on consumer hardware is not worth the cost of running them, and you may not mine a solo block in your lifetime without significant investments.

>>57834198

>Didn't invest in bitcoin when they were practically free
>Listened to /g/ say it was worthless

>Early 2013 (or was it 2012?) bitcoins are starting to go up
>I tell a friend not to bother, it's already too expensive
>$1300 a month later

I just want to die. Please somebody murder me in my sleep.

>>57834238
No, please explain, what physical value does it hold or represent?

>>57834238
Paper money is issued by a central bank which backs it up with gold reserves and property. Bitcoin is issued by whom exactly and how is its value backed up? Anyone can come up with a meme "currency" and make people believe it's worth something and even make them use it for transactions if he memes well enough. But once those people realize it's just a meme, well...

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>>57834326
It has little to none physical value, just like most currencies. It's valuable because there's a finite amount. It's useful as a currency because it's easy to divide, send to anyone, or receive from anyone.

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>>57834364

>>57834364
>But once those people realize it's just a meme, well...
Then it's still more profitable for them to act as if it was worth something.

>>57834326
What physical value does the dollar or the euro hold? It's fiat money. The value is that you can buy stuff with it.

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>>57834364
Modern currencies aren't backed by property directly. If your bank gets robbed, your government will just print more money to pay you and the bank back. Bitcoin is valuable because more of it can't be made, but it retains all the useful properties of fiat.

>>57834372
>It's valuable because there's a finite amount.
How and by whom has it been created? Where and in what form does it exist?

>little to none physical value, just like most currencies
The value of "most currencies" is backed up by physical property of the central banks which issued the currency.

>>57834364
Good job being a clueless idiot.

I only dont get one crucial thing. How do banks and whoever controls the economy and our standard money , can exchange bitcoins for real money? Why would they? I mean I understand if the online people agreed to give value to bitcoint and it works in their own "community" but when it comes in contact with real world why do banks acknowledge the bitcoin? Shouldnt bitcoin in their eyes just look like something untrusty and untraceable?

>>57834091
To be clear people have been saying this since the first time bitcoin blew up almost a decade ago. Saw a lot of this when coins were valued around $20 a piece...

>>57834426
>Shouldnt bitcoin in their eyes just look like something untrusty and untraceable?

The free market does not care about "traceable".

What do you mean by "untrusty"? I can spend some bitcons and get something in return just like with the dollar or the euro.

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>>57834079
YES. It is a waste of money.

You need special ASICs to mine Bitcoin these days.

- You can't mine Bitcoin (directly) with GPUs.
- You can buy used ASICs but the only reason people sell them is that they are old ASICs which consumes more power than they generate in profit.
- You can buy new ASICs but only crappy ones which aren't very competitive.

Basically all the manufacturers who make efficient and profitable ASICs do it on contracts for mining farms or run their own mining farms.

If you really do want to get into mining then you could look into coins you can mine with GPUs like Ethereum and ZCash or the few coins that are only possible to mine with standard CPUs.

Do think it through before you get into it.

First of all, you need to carefully coinsider if your investment in hardware + power will generate a ROI or not. I personally live in an apartment and the power bill increased 4x when I started mining.

Secondly, do consider your living situation and the impact mining will have. Listen to your GPU at full speed when you're playing a game or go to a gamer friend and listen to his GPU when playing some intensive game to get an idea. Then imagine what 10 or 20 of those will sound like. If you live alone then it's only up to you how much sound you can tolerate but if you live in an apartment or a house with a waifu then you will want to talk to her about it. You should consider the impression it would give a potential waifu if you drag one home even if you don't currently have one. Lots of GPUs make lots of noise, they will be running at full speed all the time.

>>57834414
Use all your bitcoin to buy land on the moon, sounds about right.

>>57834411
>How and by whom has it been created? Where and in what form does it exist?
>How?
Math. Go read a book, nigger.
>Whom?
It's decentralized, so no one person creates it.
>Where and in what form does it exist?
Secret numbers.

>>57834411
>The value of "most currencies" is backed up by physical property of the central banks which issued the currency.
No, even before fiat a bank would loan out more money than it actually had.

>>57834426
They don't care enough. That's why they'll process payments for bitcoins, but they won't let you put them in your bank account.

>>57834431
Yes, asking people if something is easy money isn't going to get anyone a 'Yes, join us!'.

>>57834463
Or, you know... $30

https://www.lunarland.com/

>>57834451
I cant explain it better. Like, why do banks give you real money on hands in exchange for bitcoin? What will they do with it? And who even controls the value of bitcoin? How is this even regulated and by whom?

>>57834472
>Secret numbers.

What intrinsic value do those numbers represent? What can you accomplish with them? Can you eat them? Can you build shelter out of them? Can you heal diseases with them? Can you use them as a power source? Can you use them as a weapon? I'm all ears.

>>57834481
wtf.jpg

You sound like you are too stupid to understand the concepts discussed here, I'm sorry.

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>>57834364
> backed by gold reserves
Nope, fiat paper money is currently backed by NOTHING. It's been a while since the Nixon shock in *1971*

Some fiat currencies do have a form of backing, but it's not what you'd think. The US dollar is backed by the US military, if you refuse to sell your oil for it or even hint that you will sell oil for other currencies then you're invaded and killed (Iraq, Lebanon).

>>57834498
np

>>57834493
Do you eat dollar bills? Build shelter out of dollar bills? Cure diseases with dollar bills?

>>57834481
Bitcoin is regulated by the p2p blockchain.

>>57834493
You can trade the secret numbers for goods and services. The secret numbers are a biproduct of work so no one can make them up.

>>57834364
>backs it up with gold reserves and property

backed with gold? wtf you talking, the last guy to tried to back his currency with gold was Mister Gadaffi and hi is now dead.

The US has a petrodollar and its baked with petrol bro

>>57834493
>What intrinsic value do those numbers represent?
A portion of a finite resource.

>What can you accomplish with them?
You can trade them.

> Can you eat them? Can you build shelter out of them? Can you heal diseases with them? Can you use them as a power source? Can you use them as a weapon?
No. You can't burn them for fire either. You're pretty fucking stupid if you think digital money is worth less than paper money because it can't do things paper money can't.

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>>57834481
Banks don't give you anything for Bitcoin.

You can go to exchanges and put bids and asks for your Bitcoin and other people will match your orders and give you fiat. They won't give you real money (Gold and Silver) for it, though, but you can get toilet paper like USD, EUR and CNY for it. You could later exchange those for real money elsewhere.

As for the value: It is controlled by the market.

And the market also regulates it. There are pushes for fascist regulation in many places. The US has special regulations which is why very few Bitcoin exchanges and banks in general outside the US accepts customers from there.

>>57834456
Thank you for a thorough answer. I've known about mining for many years and just remembered it.

I would like to get into it just for the techy side of it and I'm completely aware that I probably won't make my money back, but I'm okay with that.

And I won't mind the noise it makes and I don't think my gf would either. She would think it's cool actually. The only times it would be a problem is when I'm making music and need to hear it without any background noise.

So did we concluded that there is no way to start mining and actually making profit? How mucn do you need to invest and then wait until return the investment and actually rise above zero and start making profit?

>>57834551
>The US has special regulations
Like what?

>>57834558
Yes, was fun seeing /g/ get triggered by this topic.

>>57834079
For a normal user or even small setup you will struggle to mine enough to pay for the electric you used mining it.

>>57834079
Unless you're not paying for the elctricity.

>all the idiots hating on themselves for not investing in bitcoin in 2010
yeah man I too hate myself after losing the lottery for not picking exactly the winning numbers a few days back and want to kill myself

nice logic you got there fucking idiots

there are still coins being mined

But mining at home isnt really viable unless you have a sweet deal with your power distributor.

>>57834603
The assumption they're making is that it completely wasn't up to chance and that lots of smart people could tell it was a good way to make money. I don't see how that's wrong in anyway.

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>>57834558
I bought my first 3 GPUs for mining right before the meme currency Dogecoin came out. I was mining it from day 1. Not that many were mining it the first month and then someone decided to do a pump (and dump). I made those 3 GPUs back and more during that month.

Fast forward 4 months and the price of LTC and DOGE was down to a level where mining with those GPUs barely made enough to cover the power costs of having them running.

Mining profitability is also a question of what you mine and when you sell. And also how you hedge, if the price seems high then you can lock in profit by selling futures contracts which are available for a lot of coins.

>>57834079
Yes, you are too late to it now.

>>57834625
Why doesn't whoever has the strongest supercomputer farm on the planet just mine them all? Or why aren't there crazy rushes for employing (actual) botnets to do it?

>>57834668
Running supercomputers is more expensive than the bitcoins that you might get out of them. There certainly are botnets mining coins though...

>>57834668
They can't just mine them all, because the more they mine the harder it is to mine new ones. There are botnets.

Okay, after reading your responses, here's my new question.

Would it be a good, or bad, idea to invest in a bitcoining machine and only run it when the stocks inevetably rise.

This way you will profit and you won't have a high electricity bill.

>>57834694
Dude, if you can know when the price rises you don't need to mine.

>>57834668
because hacking into bank servers would be both easier and more profitable.

>>57834603
Not the same thing anon. Back in the day you didn't need whole rooms of dedicated ASICs to mine bitcoins you could do it effectively with consumer level hardware. Plus you could buy them for next to nothing.

It's a missed opportunity; they could have gotten into it but for one reason or another decided not to and now rue that decision. Whereas as the lottery is all down to pot luck with stupidly long odds.

The only time your lottery analogy would work is if after using the same numbers for years you decided to change them. So you change them and then that week your original numbers come up.

>>57834633
many smart people predicted many good outcomes
and many of them were false and ruined the lifes of people that invested in them

it was entirely up to chance and bitcoin might as well be already forgotten by now

>>57834522
Let's say I have a number and claim it's a secret number which has value. Obviously it took me some substantial effort to arrive at it, otherwise it couldn't have value. Now, how can you verify that my number is actually the secret number I claim it to be (or at least that it has the value you would think it has) without having to go through exactly the same effort yourself? If you have a file and wish to confirm its integrity based on its hash provided by another party, you have to make the exact same effort they had to make to calculate the hash. Am I missing something here? Or is it like with prime numbers where verifying that a very large number is prime is significantly easier than finding a prime number of that magnitude out of nowhere?

>>57834079
Pretty much.

>>57834714
But it's illegal and can be detected. Would Google rather mine bitcoin, or hack into bank servers?

Again, if banks are hackable and can't guarantee the integrity of digitally stored account information (which represents the property of its customers), then who and how can guarantee the integrity of so-called "bitcoin wallets" and of the meme currency in general?

Also, Putin supposedly completely banned the use of any meme currencies withing the Russian Federation - so bitcoin has value there, or doesn't it have any?

>>57834725
Is everything up to chance or is it just things you don't understand?

If you want to gain normal currency, you have to sell some goods or services, otherwise you are either stealing currency from someone else, or are counterfeiting it. Who is the owner of all the bitcoin which is being mined?

Generally, why would you want to make a currency out of something which doesn't require any actually useful work to obtain, but just some number crunching by computers?

>>57834198
>>57834302
>Mine bitcoin in 2010.
>Somehow make 23 bitcoin by just letting it run 24/7 for months on every AMD graphics card i can get my hands on.
>Lose interest and stop.
>Forget password to wallet, who cares only worth a few dollars.
>Bitcoin hits $1300 in 2013.

I curse my own stupidity every time i think about it.

>>57834855
Don't worry. I can sell you property in another galaxy very cheaply, but first you must buy some of my meme currency I have just come up with (let's call it nullcoin) and then resell it to at least a dozen different people. Deal?

>>57834855
well atleast you didn't store it on a HDD, bring the computer to the scrapyard and spend 3 weeks there trying to find said HDD

>>57834799
>who and how can guarantee the integrity of so-called "bitcoin wallets" and of the meme currency in general?

Exactly. Nobody. You weren't here in 2013 when /g/ fell balls deep into this bitcoin meme shit. Where there were threads of retards buying 20 Radeons hoping to get rich quick and asking how they can circumvent energy bills. Three years on, plenty of exchange thefts, hacks, government seizures and two fake inventors later this currency is just as memey as it ever was I'm just glad there are less of these shit threads.

>>57834885
This post shows how nonsensical the whole meme currency thing really is. Just because there's some complicated algorithms to which yield some results with some substantial computational effort doesn't mean that these results hold any actual value. They are just context-less binary patterns and nothing else. Ascribing value to them is just an illusion, and spreading the notion of them holding value is just a meme.

>>57834886
I read about that, that guy would have been a millionaire many times over too if i remember correctly.

At least i did pay off my graphics card investments, so i did get a few "free" HD5830s out of the whole thing.

>>57834079
you had your chance years ago, but instead you listened to /g/ cynicism. you missed the boat again.

I hosted miners back in 2013. As we were close to KNC we would pick them up for the customers and host them within the hour. The first ones to get their machines made 2 bitcoins per day. In total we did about $20k per day in bitcoins at around $100/btc. Had to buy some IKEA shelves for the data center as they were non-rackables.

>>57834920
Things only have value if people value it. Not unique to specific money or currencies. We live in a barter society still. Exchange paper money, raw metals, or digital currency doesn't matter. What matters is you have something that someone else values - you can use that to exchange for something you value.

>>57834941
If you mine a bitcoin, what prevents someone else from mining the exact same bitcoin?

>>57834974
The algorithm.
They'd just break into your wallet though. Or ransomware your shit.

>>57834969
>Exchange paper money, raw metals, or digital currency
The last one obviously is the most volatile of them all. You can hide money or gold and be sure it's secure, but how can you be sure of some impalpable bit patterns on some data carrier, especially if that carrier is not in your physical posession and nobody guarantees its security?

>>57834079
You'd make more money picking up a night stocking gig at your local grocery.

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>>57834079
No. But I've made around $300 mining ether and trading it for bitcoin in the last couple months.

The difficulty is going up and the price of ether is going down so now is not the best time to get into it. Ether has purpose way beyond digital currency. It's not bitcoin, don't believe anyone who tells you it's just another altcoin or a bitcoin clone.

Why did the other memecoins fail, while bitcoin is still a thing?

>>57834997
When a bitcoin is mined, how is it "secured" by whoever mined it, and how it the information who mined it propagated to anyone (everyone?) else?

>>57835065
blockchains

>>57834747
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_work

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>>57835022
A lot of them are just clones of bitcoin. Exact copies with just the name changed.

Some of them have better privacy/actual anonymity, which is apparently against the interests of several governments.

Look into the algorithm used by the coin, the structure of the network, the intent of the developers, and features that make said coin better.

Darknet operations are not using bitcoin, they use Monero or Dash mostly. Mixing is built into those coins. It's basically a money laundering feature.

>tfw you missed out on the best years there ever would be and it's only darkness from here to eternity

>>57835102
Memecoins don't need to be "laundered"? How can you prove that you obtained bitcoin by a means which is accordance to law?

>>57834326
>2016
>physical value

get with the time gramps, i bet you still buy music on cds

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>>57835355
My CDs have physical value, I can RIP lossless audio off them, listen to them in a CD player, sell them for non-meme currency, and, if need be, I can also throw them at some faggot who comes by.

>>57834221
The value of bitcoin is based in the exact same thing as every other currency in the world.
And its nothing tangible if you dont know.

>>57835511
>The value of bitcoin is based in the exact same thing as every other currency in the world.

No it's not.

>>57835019
It's just another bitcoin clone plus gambling and pyramid scheme apps.

>>57834506

What a moron.

How do you even cash out these things?

>>57837005

You buy drugs on the dark net or donate it to ISIS

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>>57834855
I know that feel, but instead of crying I went all in on the last January 2015 dip. Now im up 100k+ dollars and this is hasn't even begun yet. See you when im a millionaire in 5/10 years.

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I'd say wait. Banks are already hopping into the world of blockchain technology and I would assume it would be proprietary and universal in the market where bitcoin is universal but didn't get a large enough outreach for adoption other than a handful of businesses.

Bitcoin is a meme and a hobby for the most part and isn't used for serious transactions on the market. When a guy buys a fucking rocket to go into space with bitcoin, then I'll take it seriously.

>>57837005
>cashing out
Big mistake. Get 21 BTC and hold, you'll be rich in 10 years and buy directly with them.

>>57837005
You sell them to someone for real money or trade them for something. Same way you cash out anything else.

>>57837046

This is the literal same hype up bait that caused the first bubble and subsequent crash.

Here's a pro tip, the crashes are not caused by panic sellers but just a couple coin wallets dumping their stash of coins when the price is high enough.

And here is the bitcoin red pill, 99% of coins are owned by the person who created bitcoin and the plebs trading their little coins are peanuts in comparison.

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>>57837056
You are low IQ. The biggest strenght of bitcoin is that it's outside the system.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/potential-gold-import-ban-by-india-could-be-biggest-bombshell-since-nixon-2016-11-22

For example, take this. If all those people held bitcoins, they would be unaffected. Bitcoin is the new gold. Nothing that the government controls can ever be the new gold.

The actual meme is going to be the "GovCoin" where it's closed source and everyone is controlled. Bitcoin is The real deal.

>>57837089
Wrong, it shows you haven't been paying attention. Things have changed a lot since then. MtGox was the only exchange in the world for bitcoin for fuck's sakes.

Marketcap is still tiny, for anyone with a brain this is good news since it means you didn't miss the train yet. Ups and downs are expected, so fucking what.


>99%
kys mong, it's not. And guess what, 99% of money is owned a few corporations/families in the world, the difference with bitcoin is, no one can make more bitcoin out of thin air, as opposed to fiat cuckrrencies.

>>57834411
>The value of "most currencies" is backed up by physical property of the central banks which issued the currency.
This hasn't been the case for decades. The gold standard was abolished a long time ago.
Fiat currencies work based on faith and nothing else.

>>57837112

memecoin has been, and always will exist just for autists. Nobody who deals with real world shit is going to use that shit on the frontend because there is no regulation, there is no way to get your coins back when somebody steals them, we have seen it time and time again when a large coin bank gets hacked and millions of dollars of coins disappear and are irrecoverable.

Time has passed for the bitcoin and make it big train. I'd look into bitcoin if you haven't already but be aware that it's quite likely it will be shut down by globalists and the USA. They don't directly control it and cannot borrow to infinity with it. World governments love digital currency and cashless society as it makes it easier to tax you and suppress you. Expect them to come up with their own "bitcoin" or digital currencies in which they make the rules and control. Bitcoin will likely be killed off with regressive legislation and oversight similar to cablecard and other formats.

>>57837062
t. owner of crystal ball

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>>57837070
There's no need to get cucked by banks anymore. You can buy even a lambo directly with bitcoin without ever touching the deprecated banking circuit, too bad you are all poor morons.

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>>57837112
>bitcoin is the future currency but its only worth is within the small bitcoin community and already existing physical currency and assets to be worth anything

And what objective value does bitcoin have physically? You can't seriously say 1s and 0s have any real worth over physical assets that don't already exist. The only thing it has going for it is that you cannot easily counterfeit it.

>>57834481
>>57834551

FYI most banks outside of US won't do business with you if they know that you own/mine bitcoin. It's a money laundering issue.

>Bitcoin mining
>6 years late

Its over, sorry. Unless you got given a super cluster of 20,000 GPUs and unlimited free electricity don't waste your time.

>>57837195
Banks in the USA already don't do business with you if bitcoin is involved. Wells Fargo I believe closes your account right away. The globalist and banking elite already started the war a couple years ago.

>>57834198
>On /b/ when it first launched
>People giving away thousands for free
>Could have bought 10k for ~$30
>Could have retired by now...

>>57837056
>Banks are already hopping into the world of blockchain technology

They're investigating it but I don't expect it to become a standard, like, ever. Transactions between banks is a solved problem, blockchain doesn't do anything new.

>>57837188
>guy who got lucky with a meme coin chinese pump and dump calling people morons
lol

>>57837220

>people on /g/ were sending tens and hundreds of bitcoins to each other when they were literally costing cents

For fucks sake. We could have all been rich.

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>>57837160
Is this how you cope? Sounds exactly what people said about the internet back when it was used by nerds, criminals, drug dealers and paedophiles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lskpNmUl8yQ

The fact that you don't see value while it's precisely used only by those is the reason you will stay poor, mad and mediocre.

With the Lightning Network there will be possibility for refunds for those stupid enough to lose their coins.

In any case, dumb normies can already use custodial wallets if they're so scared of losing their bitcoins - but the underlying protocol allows anyone interested complete control over their money, and that is a very powerful thing.

And the thing is, we don't even need "mass adoption" as in people buying mundane shit, to hit the moon. Bitcoin as a the objectively new gold it is, already has the potential to sit on a trillion+ marketcap.

>>57837180
My crystal ball has been working pretty good:

>>57837046 (pic related)

stay mad, stay jealous.

Also, where does government taxation come into play? I know a lot of these fags with millions of dollars worth of bitcoins didn't just somehow skim by never paying a cent in income tax. If not, I can imagine the IRS will be knocking on your door sometime in your lifetime.

>>57837215
>The globalist and banking elite already started the war a couple years ago.

It's not that you conspirtard. It's all about anti money laundering regulations ( which aren't new, they're like 50 years old in US at this point ) Banks don't want to touch bitcoin because it's used for money laundering, it's just an unnecessary risk for them.

>>57837215
>>57837284
Lel what. My coinbase account is connected to my bank account and I've never had an issue.

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>>57837192
>physically
Go to bed, grandpa. Meanwhile I can move millions of dollars in an undetected way moving across any borders while you get cucked with your physical gold/memepapers.

>>57837178
People will work for Bitcoin, get paid in Bitcoin, and buy with Bitcoin: The circle is closed, government can't trace shit. You are delusional if you think the trillionaire underground economy will disappear all of a sudden.

There will never be a global agreement to ban it because some countries will benefit by being pro-Bitcoin, so a global "ban" on Bitcoin is a deusional scenario. There will always be nodes. It's impossible to shut down a decentralized network of its global nature.

There will always be countries that find profit in being pro-Bitcoin, just like there are countries that find profit by being pro-financial privacy (Switzerland for example)

It will keep improving, there's always a solution being developed for any given problem. Nocoiners are on denial and will face further pain by not holding any.

>>57837281
They already do that. IRS has recently asked coinbase to hand over user data. That's the problem with bitcoin - the people involved don't want to be a part of the system, they literally don't give a shit about laws. Taxes, AML, risk management, procedures - they don't give a fuck, there's zero professionalism in bitcoin community.

>>57837294
It depends on the bank, each has its own policies and levels of giving a fuck.

>>57837294
People using Coinbase do get shut down by Bank of America and Wells Fargo.

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>>57837333
t. epitome of why anti-capitalist revolution is coming

>>57837333
>People will work for Bitcoin, get paid in Bitcoin, and buy with Bitcoin: The circle is closed, government can't trace shit.

Can you buy bread with bitcoin? No, you need to exchange it for real money. The governments shut down exchanges and it's game over.

>>57834855
I accidentally formatted my computer without moving my wallet had like 3 coins when it was worth like 10 dollars a coin...got pissed when I saw them over a 1000

>>57834079

There is no way to compete with the large mining operations now. They are investing 10's of millions into new mining rigs, infrastructure, and power. This caused and is still causing the difficulty to shoot through the roof, where profitability really only comes about when you are investing at least 100's of thousands minimum. Sure, you can buy your own rig for a few thousand dollars and the mining calculator will say it will pay for itself in a year or two, however the difficulty is rising faster then that.

Investing in crypto-currency as a typical middle class investor is stupid. It's too risky, the only reason these big operations get money to do all of this is because it's a "fun" investment for multi-millionaires. It's not taken seriously, these people just like to see something different.

>Electrician in a part of the country with extremely cheap power

>>57837443
>the only reason these big operations get money to do all of this is because it's a "fun" investment for multi-millionaires.

Those operations are mostly in China. They're used to transfer wealth/black money out of China. That's the only real reason why those big operations exist.

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>>57837333
>if i keep telling myself my currency is worth something and that im rich no one can contest me!

This is exactly what bitcoin is. Losers who don't want to compete fairly on a regular market and created their own currency to have this vision of being pseudo-powerful when in reality their currency doesn't hold weight against shit.

Spot the lolbertarian crybabies.

>>57837336
> That's the problem with bitcoin - the people involved don't want to be a part of the system, they literally don't give a shit about laws
You say that like it's bad thing.

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>>57834364
>The money is backed by gold and property

Good goy.

>>57835019
This made me think more than it should have.

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>>57837244
Is this how you cope?
>>57837381
t. signed jelly manchild

>>57837408
Yes you can if you find someone selling you bread for bitcoin. Point is, when people is pushed to use Bitcoin, as they will once physical cash is removed, the Bitcoin economy will explode as it will be the only way to work under the radar, and most do work under the radar. Expecting everyone will suddendly start paying 100% taxes is delusional, since in a lot of countries people can pay bills thanks to not paying taxes.

Again, cuckerments can't shut down exchanges hosted in countries where it's legal to have exchanges. Not to mention, we will soon have decentralized exchanges so good luck with that.

>>57837499
>buy lambo with bitcoin transacted peer to peer with owner throught movile phone
>not real

You sound exactly like a resented chump that didn't buy the various dips bitcoin has delivered. You can still get in while it's under 4 figures.

>>57834079
no

>>57834079
I know nothing of this shit. Why did they increase so much in value? Did mining become harder or something?

>>57837915
By design it gets harder and harder over time

>>57837500
It is a bad thing, for bitcoin, because it means that normal people won't ever use it.

>>57837672
>Yes you can if you find someone selling you bread for bitcoin.

Nobody will when they're not able to exchange them for real money.

>Point is, when people is pushed to use Bitcoin, as they will once physical cash is removed

Banknotes are not going away, like, ever. Cash-less society is a conspiracy theory. You know why? Because cash is too profitable. Banks make money handling cash.

>Expecting everyone will suddendly start paying 100% taxes is delusional, since in a lot of countries people can pay bills thanks to not paying taxes.

I'm sure those impoverished African farmers will suddenly start using bitcoin. Pro tip: m-pesa exist and solves all of their money transfer problems.

>Again, cuckerments can't shut down exchanges hosted in countries where it's legal to have exchanges. Not to mention, we will soon have decentralized exchanges so good luck with that.

Banks stop doing business with exchanges. Exchanges die.

>>57838237
>By design it gets harder and harder over time

Not true. It gets harder and harder the more people who mine. But the payout for mining also decrease over time, which makes it less profitable to do so over time.

The reason it's impossible to mine with CPU/GPU now is because there are ASICS for SHA256 which are orders of magnitude faster, making it too costly to mine with CPU/GPU when you factor in electricity.

>>57838363
>Banknotes are not going away, like, ever. Cash-less society is a conspiracy theory. You know why? Because cash is too profitable. Banks make money handling cash.

In my country, the banks are shilling really hard for going cashless. It means people can't withdraw their money any more and they can charge what they want in fees. What are you gonna do, switch bank? Ding ding, now all the banks are engaged in price fixing and all you can do is shift your money around between the banks.

>>57838478
You can't go "cashless", because nobody can force nobody to keep their money in a bank. If you have money, noone can require you to give it up and store it in a bank.

>>57838505
They're gonna introduce a digital form of cash, most likely block chain based, then after some time cash will stop being legal tender and everyone have to exchange the cash for the digital money. If you don't comply, your cash will simple stop being legal tender.

>>57834079
Has been for a few years

>>57834198
Bought at 15 sold at 300.

>>57838478
What country?

>>57838548
Scandinavia

>>57838559
Just say Sweden.

I know that cashless has been a popular idea in Sweden but you have to realize that Sweden isn't really a good example of anything, basically. Cash is actually on the rise in continental Europe. Countries like US, Japan, Switzerland, Japan, Eurozone - think strong, internationally popular currencies won't go cashless because having banknotes is actually beneficial for the currency.

*cums*

>>57838625
>Cash is actually on the rise in continental Europe
Got a source for this?

>>57839557
All you need to know is that between 2003 and 2016 there's been a 25% growth in number of cash machines in Europe. It went from ~300K in early 2000s to over 400K in 2016.

Basically, people love cash.

>>57834079
if you had a single clue about what you were doing you wouldn't ask that question

here's a you and a suggestion to leave

>>57835511
Are you retarded, friend? The value of currency is based on gold reserves.

>>57834364
Yo dumbass, money isn't backed by anything at all. Learn some history, retard.

>>57840376
Welcome to the 21st century, traveler from ancient times! It's my sad duty to inform you that virtually all nations abandoned the idea of currency being valued over gold in the middle 20th century.

The value of any modern currency is based on how long you believe its government will have the ability to keep lying.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard
>Most nations abandoned the gold standard as the basis of their monetary systems at some point in the 20th century

>>57840376
Not anymore.
The dollar is a fiat currency.

>>57838363
>Banks stop doing business with exchanges. Exchanges die.
Virtually anyone can be a bitcoin exchange. All you need is be willing to exchange bitcoin for cash.
If banks stop doing business with exchanges, it just means the fees will go to someone else

>>57834506
retard

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>>57834079
>got into bitcoin around the time it was just starting up, maybe a year or so later
>Didnt think much of it but hey I may as well run it in the background
>got 3 bitcoins eventually, again not much of it
>few years pass, forget about it
>bitcoin explodes and it worth loads
>I lost my 3 bitcoins when I sold my old PC

I remember telling my dad in the car. He was really disappointed, then was really sad

>>57836961
>>57840701
kys fiatcuck

>>57834364
Good useless eater. Good goyim.

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>>57838363

>I'm sure those impoverished African farmers will suddenly start using bitcoin. Pro tip: m-pesa exist and solves all of their money transfer problems.

They will. Bitcoin can work under SMS phones. Suddenly your shitty phone is not a wiss account, but a swiss bank, that has access to a global economy. m-pesa will never have access to a global economy, giving you access to trade anything you want anywhere. Bitcoin cannot be stopped. Get with the program.

>Banks stop doing business with exchanges. Exchanges die.

Wrong you cuck. Again, decentralized exchanges, again, there will always be pro-Bitcoin countries to circumvent any given problems, even if there aren't, who cares when you can work for Bitcoin and buy and sell with Bitcoin (circle is closed so cuckerment money not needed). Lot's of people already are doing this, including me. (I code and get paid with BTC and buy anything I want with BTC)

>Cash-less society is a conspiracy theory.

So you are saying that Lagarde is a conspiracy theorist?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwkC8WaN5T4&t=30m14s

At about 30 minutes 14 seconds in you can see Lagarde raise her arm when asked "how many here think cash will not exist in 10 years?"

Look around. There's an ongoing war on cash. Stay deluded if that helps you cope tho. Just try not to kill yourself when you look back at the current price in the future.

>>57840376
>2016
>Believing we didn't sell all our physical gold and just have a fake number we are inflating off of.

>>57840135
Of course they do, that's how they evade taxes. Too bad we are going cashless and only those that are educated in Bitcoin will be able to not get cucked by the government.

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>>57838363
>Banknotes are not going away, like, ever.

>>57834431
Exactly and it's gotten worse ever since.

>>57834920
Money does not hold any actual value retard
Not even gold or diamonds

the shitcoin failed because it didn't have a core value or institution backing it. Perhaps, if its value was reflected in the cost of mining it at its current hash rate then at least it would be more predictable. Stability of value is the key component missing and it's really hard to do when it's not:
-supported by a large mainstream economy
OR
-has a tangible exchange for something (whether it's mining cost from the earth or electronic mining cost, this value must exist)

The only thing fueling bitcoin was obscure economies that had no place on the surface level.

It's really too bad it's has not taken off to the level of mainstream use.

>>57834411
>>57834364
>The value of "most currencies" is backed up by physical property of the central banks which issued the currency.
Not for a long time anymore, silly, not for USD, GBP or EUR at least

>>57837381
Literally how capitalism works is ideas are presented to the market and become successful if the market favors them i.e. bitcoin being better than petro-dollars means bitcoin would be the new standard BUT it isn't so it's not. Or other forces are at work, more likely, but that is still a part of the market and therefore a part of the capitalist system.

You're probably some "I'm a gay person and maoism wouldn't fire me from my job because of it" level faggot.

>>57837112
>Bitcoin is the new gold
except for stability in value
nice meme though

>>57834198
>Have ability to mine Bitcoins back in 2010?
>Client still has CPU mining built in.
>Just sold AMD GPU.
>Tried to start mining with what I had.
>Thought configuring client and miner was too complicated.
>Gave up.
>With a few more minutes of work I could've been a multi millionaire.


FUCK

>>57837333
>I am someone who has no idea how financial systems actually work and therefore thinks replacing "dollar" with "bitcoin" is a revolution and won't instead be exactly the same as the system we have now.

You're just so confused...

>>57840893
And that's why bitcoin will fail. Normal people don't want to break the law. The only use cases of bitcoin are criminal in nature. Dodge taxes. Launder money. Buy drugs. If you don't want to do any of the above bitcoin doesn't solve any of your problems. So there's no reason to use it.

>>57840870
>I code and get paid with BTC and buy anything I want with BTC

Like what? You buy food with bitcoin? Pay your rent? Get real.

>>57841006
>the shitcoin failed because it didn't have a core value or institution backing it.

It failed because it's a solution without a problem. It doesn't work better than the traditional system. It doesn't solve the problems of the traditional system. Why would you use it?

>>57841243
are you fucking kidding me? This isn't complicated. Bitcoin grew in value because there was a market that was using it. An economy starting backing the currency and it therefore gained value. This economy was an unstable and shady one but nonetheless it was a userbase that needed something like bitcoin

the problem with bitcoin is the stability of its value. If there was a way to ensure that stability it would have taken off very well


>>57841300
>t doesn't work better than the traditional system. It doesn't solve the problems of the traditional system. Why would you use it?
If successful it would have been a good alternative to bank notes that have transaction costs for practically everything. That is a big deal considering how much money the established financial system makes from money flow.

>>57841245
>Like what? You buy food with bitcoin? Pay your rent? Get real
you convert it to actual money the instant you get paid just like the megacorps that accept it as a payment form

Why post when you're uninformed about a subject?

>>57834431
This isn't about speculating on the price, it's about mining. People haven't always said it's too late to get in the mining game, but now it certainly is. The price may rise but that's irrelevant.

>>57841347
>you convert it to actual money the instant you get paid just like the megacorps that accept it as a payment form

or i could just get dollars instead of going through an inherently lossy whatever currency <-> bitcoin <-> dollar rigmarole for no reason.

>>57834493
Currencies aren't supposed to have any intrinsic value. That would make it a bad currency.

>>57841245
>The only use cases of bitcoin are criminal in nature. Dodge taxes. Launder money. Buy drugs.

Nonsense

>>57841332
>If successful it would have been a good alternative to bank notes that have transaction costs for practically everything. That is a big deal considering how much money the established financial system makes from money flow.

Bitcoin is not efficient enough. It doesn't scale. Look at that the ridiculous transaction confirmation times. Traditional system deals with fuck knows how many billions of transactions a day. Bitcoin can't handle that.

>>57841347
>you convert it to actual money the instant you get paid just like the megacorps that accept it as a payment form

If you convert them to """real money""" then you don't actually buy/pay for things with bitcoin. You also pay taxes and use banks to transfer money.

Why do you use bitcoin again?

>>57841415
Bitcoin can certainly scale, through higher levels built on top of it.

>>57841409
Prove me wrong.

>>57841446
Wasn't there drama in community not too long ago, that bitcoin won't be able to scale any more in the near future? Something to do block sizes? Was that resolved?

>>57835001
you have no understanding on how bitcoin wallets work, do you?

>You can hide money or gold and be sure it's secure
no you cant

>>57841474
Bitcoin has the same usage case as all other currency, only with several advantages:

1. It is the first truly global currency, you can use it anywhere with an internet connection (or even without internet by telling people the private key to a prefilled account etc)

2. It is programmable, you can do more than just transfer it. Examples are setting up multisignature accounts, contracts, verification and identification and more.

3. It is very secure: It has no central point of failure and cannot be counterfeited.

4. It is extremely practical as a currency, in that it is very portable, very divisible, very easily transferred, very durable and the supply is entirely predictable.

6. It is inherently free as in liberty, no one can force you to spend or not spend your coins on anything

7. It is very cheap to use, far cheaper than an intl bank transfer or paypal/CC purchase.

>>57841478
There are several ways to scale, the community just can't agree on which. But it will happen eventually.

>>57841506

> 6. It is inherently free as in liberty, no one can force you to spend or not spend your coins on anything

> what is ransomware

>>57834747
As far as I know, the hash of your secret number has to have certain properties. Generating a secret number with a hash that has these properties is a very complex thing, but computing the hash and checking whether it has said properties is trivial.

>>57841387
>>57841434

yes but ideally, if the currency took off, you wouldn't have to do this

Also, chances are if you're getting paid in shitcoin you're getting overpaid to compensate for the risk of value drops and conversion costs

I'm saying, if everything was sunny and Bitcoin had a stable value there would be no need to worry about this.

I'm not even the poster that said they got paid in shitcoin for coding.
>why do you use bitcoin again?
I don't as it's lacking the core characteristic of money which is relative stability due to backing of either some large institution or backing by some physical value that can be quantified.

The only thing that gave Bitcoin value was the shady economy that valued its use for various reasons. The hash rate did not give value to the Bitcoin because it was flawed. It allowed early adopters to hoard and discouraged entry into the market after the hashrate rose. It's more complicated than that but pointless to ramble on about it at this point

>>57841523
How does ransomware contradict anything I said?

>>57841415
yes, but that's an easy problem to fix having to do with exchange infrastructure

If bitcoin wasn't flawed by design due to the value stability problem then there would come around a reputable exchange that would provide scalable infrastructure at the incentive of profit.

Correct me if I'm wrong here

>>57841523
a point that is not relevant to this conversation
>>57841506
great you listed all the things that are good
Now can you list the reason why there is no price stability or mass adaptation? You're missing the core problem that lead shitcoin to fail

>>57841506
>1. It is the first truly global currency, you can use it anywhere with an internet connection (or even without internet by telling people the private key to a prefilled account etc)

I can do that with real money already.

>2. It is programmable, you can do more than just transfer it. Examples are setting up multisignature accounts, contracts, verification and identification and more.

I can already do that with real money.

>3. It is very secure: It has no central point of failure and cannot be counterfeited.
>bitcoin
>secure

https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@michaelmatthews/list-of-bitcoin-hacks-2012-2016

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337

>4. It is extremely practical as a currency, in that it is very portable, very divisible, very easily transferred, very durable and the supply is entirely predictable.

The value fluctuates too much for bitcoin to be practical.

>very divisible, very easily transferred, very durable

So is real money.

>6. It is inherently free as in liberty, no one can force you to spend or not spend your coins on anything

It can still be taxed.

>7. It is very cheap to use, far cheaper than an intl bank transfer or paypal/CC purchase.

That's not true anymore.

>>57841586
>Now can you list the reason why there is no price stability or mass adaptation? You're missing the core problem that lead shitcoin to fail

You're too impatient. If bitcoin succeeds on a massive scale, it will happen 10, 20 even 30 or more years from now. A lot of things needs to be fixed before it is fully ready, including price stability, but we are slowly but surely getting there. A few years ago it was commonplace for the price to swing 5x up or down in a matter of weeks. Now we've barely swung within 3x in three whole years. Stability is caused mostly by trade volume and liquidity, and that is increasing steadily.

>>57841530
>yes but ideally, if the currency took off, you wouldn't have to do this

Bitcoin isn't a currency. It's a ponzi scheme.

>>57841537
>>57841586

because ransom ware is someone forcing you to spend your coins on something, stupid

>>57841530

>I'm saying, if everything was sunny and Bitcoin had a stable value there would be no need to worry about this.

right, but that's impossible because it is an algorithm run amok, there is nobody with any sort of monetary policy levers like you have with dollars. it's also deflationary by design, which encourages holding as opposed to spending and investing.

this is never going to change with cryptocurrency because you need early adopters for your cryptocurrency to be worth anything at all, and said early adopters need selfish incentives to buy in in the first place, such as a limited supply and being free from any sort of control.

>>57841711
>You're too impatient. If bitcoin succeeds on a massive scale, it will happen 10, 20 even 30 or more years from now.

So Bitcoin will get popular when it gets stable but in order to get stable it first needs to become popular?

lol

>>57841625
>I can do that with real money already.
No, you can't, actually.

>I can already do that with real money.
No, you can't, actually.


>https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@michaelmatthews/list-of-bitcoin-hacks-2012-2016
>https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337

These all have nothing to do with bitcoin itself, it is user error due to hackers being allowed access to private keys.

>The value fluctuates too much for bitcoin to be practical.

See >>57841711


>So is real money.

Bitcoin is more divisible, more durable and more easily transferred than fiat.

>It can still be taxed.

Of course, that's a good thing.

>That's not true anymore.

Yes, it is.

>>57841776
You're retarded. He just said it was already stabilizing. Learn to read.

>>57841779
>No, you can't, actually.

Of course I can. Bicoin doesn't do legally anything the traditional system can't already do. So what's the point?

>>57841711

If Bitcoin "succeeds", the price will only become more volatile. There is a limited number of them, and as more people want them the price will go up.

>>57841827
So? It's not stable and that's why people don't use it.

>>57841776
>So Bitcoin will get popular when it gets stable but in order to get stable it first needs to become popular?

It's not an on/off switch. Bitcoin will become a little bit more popular, which will make it a little more stable, which will make it a little more popular, which will make it a little more stable, and so on.

This is nothing new, thousands of systems have been through the same process and succeeded. Like the internet: It needed users before anyone would bother to create websites, but no one would use it unless there were websites.

>>57841827

If more people want bitcoin, the price will go higher, not stabilize.

Which is great if you're a bitcoin shill who wants their coins to be worth more, but not very good if you actually want to use it as a currency.

>bankers got rich because they created jobs
>basement dwellers got rich because they burnt some GPUs

This is why meme currencies are complete jokes.

>>57841864
There's a fundamental difference between bitcoin and the the internet. Internet offers new functionality and solves real problems. Bitcoin doesn't.

>>57841864

If more people want bitcoin, the price will go higher, not stabilize.

Either you're an idiot who has no idea how economics work, or you're a shill who wants their bitcoins to be worth more so they can cash out.

>>57834431
Then buy the next dip or just speculate on a completely different longshot.

The idea is to cover your nut with your day job and then keep taking wild gambles with your disposable income until one blows up.

Read Antifragile.

>>57841902
Think about all that wasted electricity. It's completely unethical.

>>57841765
>it's also deflationary by design, which encourages holding as opposed to spending and investing.
People spend money for reasons besides inflation, like hunger.

>>57841847
You don't need a banks permission to exchange bitcoin.

>>57841852
High demand will increase the price, not make it volatile. Bitcoins are divisible, so the limited number isn't an issue.

>>57841862
It is more stable than it was. Its been getting more stable. People do use it.

>>57841887
Did you not read what he wrote?
>Stability is caused mostly by trade volume and liquidity, and that is increasing steadily.
More users will raise price, but also increase stability.
>inb4 hurdur how can it do both?
Think about it for two seconds, retard.

>>57841847
Not all laws are just, bitcoin enables oppressed people to bypass the oppression. Wordpress said it well:

>PayPal alone blocks access from over 60 countries, and many credit card companies have similar restrictions. Some are blocked for political reasons, some because of higher fraud rates, and some for other financial reasons. Whatever the reason, we don’t think an individual blogger from Haiti, Ethiopia, or Kenya should have diminished access to the blogosphere because of payment issues they can’t control. Our goal is to enable people, not block them.

>>57841903
>Bitcoin doesn't.

It does actually. Just because you can't see them doesn't mean they don't exist.

>>57841915
>If more people want bitcoin, the price will go higher, not stabilize.

The more people want it, the slower the rate of ascent will be because a thousand new people is twice the interest when there is already a thousand users, but just 0.1% increase in interest when the total amount of users is a million. No one is saying the popularity growth will be exponential forever, obviously.

>>57841932
>You don't need a banks permission to exchange bitcoin.

You don't need bank's permission to exchange money. They can put your transaction on hold for a short amount of time or block if it's money laundering or terrorism issue but that's literally it.

>>57841967
>It does actually. Just because you can't see them doesn't mean they don't exist.

Jesus anon, you talk about it like it's your religion or something.

>>57841982
>You don't need a banks permission except when you do.
With Bitcoin you never need permission. Your transfers cannot be blocked. Your account cannot be frozen.

>>57842029
Just because you're too stupid and lazy to understand something doesn't make it worthless.

>>57842029
Doesn't make me wrong

>>57842075
>Your transfers cannot be blocked. Your account cannot be frozen.

But that's not a good thing. Certain transfers need to be blocked. I want the government to stop people from laundering money. I want them to stop the financing of terrorism. Who fucking doesn't?

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Holy shit there are a butt load of cucks ITT

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>>57842075
>Just because you're too stupid and lazy to understand something doesn't make it worthless.
>y-you just d-don't understand

>>57842126
Everything would be great if that's the only thing being blocked. But it isn't. The government prevents a fuckload of finance that they have no business preventing. Drugs, gambling, even wikileaks. Call me cruel but I'd rather be able to commit my victimless crimes even if it means making it easier for terrorists to get funding.

>>57842126
>Who fucking doesn't?
People who believe they have a right to ownership of private wealth instead of having it leased to them by banks. Bitcoin isn't about what people want; it's the result of modern communications and cryptography. Anyone can exchange wealth with anyone without the direct help of a bank or government. That's why it's a big deal.

>>57842150
I blame Reddit.

>>57842169
Go read a paper, faggot.

>>57834855
>>57837440

And people in this thread will shill that it makes more sense to use bitcoin than a bank account. Forgot your password? Too bad, no money for you.

Fucking retarded.

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if bitcoins are real money then why don't you just encrypt 100 trillion dollars worth of bitcoins and solve world hunger

>>57842230
>People who believe they have a right to ownership of private wealth instead of having it leased to them by banks.

If they want to use this shit to launder dirty money or bankroll terrorism I say fuck them.

>Anyone can exchange wealth with anyone without the direct help of a bank or government.

You can already do that with cash. Or barter.

>>57842284
>If they want to use this shit to launder dirty money or bankroll terrorism I say fuck them.
I think you'll find it pretty hard to shut it down.

>You can already do that with cash. Or barter.
Not overseas. We've been over this. Think before you post.

>tfw waiting for doge coin to hit $1 then i'll be have 8 figures

>>57842325
>I think you'll find it pretty hard to shut it down.

You're delusional. If governments wanted to shut down bitcoin they'd just do that. Go after exchanges, shut down industrial scale mining operations and it's over. IRS just went after coinbase, you just wait and see what happens when dept of treasury goes after it too because they don't give a shit about AML.

A REMINDER THAT THIS THREAD IS FULL OF BITCOIN SHILLS WHO WANT YOU TO BUY THEIR ASS PENNIES SO THEY CAN CASH OUT AT A HIGHER PRICE.

>>57841932
>>57841967

You're missing the point that a rising price is not a desirable property for a currency, period. Currencies should have a small amount of inflation built into them, to encourage spending and investing as opposed to holding on to them.

What bitcoin morons will never understand is that real currencies are a means to an end. You do something of value, you get paid for it. But the point is that you had to actually do something to get that dollar. Deflationary currencies create "value" from their scarcity, which is stupid and never ever something you want in a currency. As a civilization, we've already been there, it was called the gold standard, and we're much better off today with fiat money than 100 years ago.

It's so stupid too, because there's no reason why Bitcoin had to be scarce. It would have simply been a change in protocol - If there were an unlimited amount of coins built into the protocol, it might actually be a decent currency.

>>57842433
Wow, someone that actually understands why Bitcoin could have been great, but currently sucks. I wish there were more like you instead of blind shills.

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>>57842415
>>57842433
Bitcoin still exists, the price is going up, and the price is stabilizing. This is all happening despite complaints about money laundering and deflationary currencies. Your predictions and models have been false so far. It's here right now and doesn't seem to be going anywhere soon.

The meme about deflationary currencies is particularly stupid. People still have to spend money even if they'd like to hang onto it. They have to eat. Pic related.

>>57842531
What would success look like to you?

A REMINDER THAT THIS THREAD IS FULL OF ANTI-BITCOIN SHILLS WHO WANT YOU TO SELL THEIR BITCOIN SO THEY CAN SHORT IT AND CASH OUT AT A PROFIT

>>57842433
I think you are the one who'se missing the point. I have never argued that bitcoin specifically is suitable for the main currency of people. Bitcoin is a technology that can be used to improve existing currencies. Just like paypal merely being a tool to improve fiat. Bitcoin is built as its own unit not tied to the value of fiat because that's the only way to get most of its advantages, but that doesn't mean it needs to be separated from fiat. I imagine the ultimate goal of bitcoin be something that lots of services are built on top of. Most people, except maybe some niche geeks, will use bitcoin when they don't even know they're using bitcoin because it will power most underlying services and payment channels around as sort of a settlement layer. This will enable a lot of things that aren't possible today because as all payment services run on the same fundamental layer, they can work together and be independently verified and programmable.

>>57834221
>>57834238

The funny thing is that "low quality bait" is literally a perfectly explanation of what is behind the value of bitcoin.

>>57834668
75% of the mining is done in one building with their own power plant

This also gives them complete control over the blockchain

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>>57834364
Most modern currencies have abandoned the gold standard over a century ago...

>>57834221
drugs.

A says 1 drugs costs $300
B says 1 bitcoin costs $1000
A says 1 drugs costs 0.3 bitcoins
I buy 0.3 bitcoins and get 1 drugs.

and the bitcoin economy continues.

>>57834079

only if you live somewhere with really, really cheap electricity.

Please stop talking bitcoin, you don't know how it works.

Anyone not owning any in 2016 needs to be shoot.

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>>57834364
>>57834221
social engineering by 2 *random people* yea sure you guys are correct but it looks like your trying to make a circle jerk

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>>57841006
>it didn't have a core value or institution backing it
This is precisely why it's so valuable (exatly 770 memepapers if you want me to give you a BTC)

You guys deserve what's comming to you for not owning any.

Here's a look into the future. Those are the regular ATM train machines you see everywhere. In Switzerland you see this all over the place.

Remember, no cash in the future. Bitcoin is our only way out. There's even a TV series about this already

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPPjZ7TbmgE

It feels great being a pioneer. Feels like everytime I have managed to make millions out of being ahead of the pack.

>>57843328
Bitcoin has lots of security flaws, there are more advanced blockchain currencies out there.

>>57842433
>If there were an unlimited amount of coins built into the protocol, it might actually be a decent currency.
>wanting to repeat what started this cluster fuck
Kill yourself and your "muh deflationary currency is bad" meme. People has to eat, they will spend it for important things, instead of mindless consumerism. Stay mad, meanwhile my bitcoins keep getting more valuable as you cry.

>>57843361
Yeah, so many flaws it's the oldest surviving crypto, with the original blockchain, and more than 80% of money invested in crypto is always on BTC. Alts are a 2015 meme.

>>57843397
Normies like those who advocate paper sheckels in this thread are the ones who buy bitcoins after people like you convince them to.

>>57843328
See, you're just spouting memes and empty words because you like the sound of muh decentralized currency. Your view is about as romanticized as the Hollywood garbage you linked. You wrote a block of text and none of it was worth reading because it's just overgeneralized hype that does not address where Bitcoin fell short or why it failed (which it did).

Come back when you take a high school level economics course and you might be qualified to have an opinion on the subject. Maybe you'll understand the formal definition of money in a historical context.

It's a waste of time to even address your pseudo intellectual generalities on a point by point basis

Before you label me as a supporter of fiat currency as you scramble to support your shit argument please note I supported Bitcoin as an idea from the begging and saw it's flawed implementation follow through into the present

Bitcoin has inertia but it also has some serious problems with the current traffic congestion and blockchain size.

>>57841743
Not necessarily. You don't HAVE to pay the ransom.
I.e. if you're rich enough and had backups it doesn't even matter.

>>57842631
>Bitcoin still exists, the price is going up, and the price is stabilizing. This is all happening despite complaints about money laundering and deflationary currencies. Your predictions and models have been false so far. It's here right now and doesn't seem to be going anywhere soon.

Oh cut the bullshit. Nobody fucking knows what is going on in Bitcoin land. You have no clue why the price is the way it is, why it has gone up right now, and why it has gone down in the past. Bitcoiners have predicted all sorts of things for years, you don't get off just because recent history fits your talking points.

>>57834079
honestly you're doing it wrong the only people doing it should become like a leet fucking hacker and hack they shit.

I'M TALKING FULL FLEDGED BOTNET MOTHERFUCKER USING A BOTNET TO BREAK HASHES AND TUNNEL THE COINS TO YOUR SHIT MOTHERFUCKER WIHTOUT HTE USER EVEN KNOWING.

if you're not that type of person then whats the point in wasting $1000s in coputer equipment to try and mind shit i mean realistically it'd probably fail.

>>57834855
checkd

>>57835253
>accordance to law?
like math law?

>>57834506
>Iraq, Lebanon
wasn't for dollars, just for oil and freedom

>>57843588
this post really made me think

>>57843364

I have seen people like you before, and when the market corrects itself suddenly you idiots are nowhere to be found.

I don't care that the price is increasing. It might be worth $10,000 in a decade. But it also might be worth $1, and nobody in this thread has any real way of knowing what's going to happen other than their hunches and wishful thinking.

Here's my assessment. I'm seeing that outside of Darknet Markets and ransom-ware, there's no real unique use that couldn't be done easier with fiat money, and the only value it has as an asset is...being bought for Darknet Markets and ransoms. Darknet Markets are not something I would bet on - if enough people lose trust in DMN's due to exit scams or law enforcement honeypots, Bitcoin might lose a ton of value. And both Darknet Markets and ransom-ware aren't guaranteed to be using Bitcoin forever - if a more secure alternative pops up that catches on, that would be even tougher on Bitcoin and leave you with nothing.

You idiots can ride this bull if you want. Just know that you're essentially gambling with your hard earned money, and even if you hit the jackpot, you're still a degenerate gambler and will likely lose your winnings some other way.

>>57843876
>I'm seeing that outside of ...
this is exactly the point
The only thing that was supporting the value of the currency was this sort of economy and since it's so unstable and shady, Bitocoin was never able to get a proper economic backing. Not to mention that the increasing hash rate made gave it the flavor of the typical ponzi even if it was trying to legitimately create value and scarcity for itself

>>57843569
It's more stable than it was and it's worth more than it was and it keeps getting more valuable and stable. Pretending things will just change all of a sudden because it's convenient for you is retarded.

>>57843876
> nobody in this thread has any real way of knowing what's going to happen other than their hunches and wishful thinking.
Ah, it's the "business is all guess work xD" meme.

>>57840926
They won't. People like their "traceless" dollars. Not to mention that physical representation is the most important part of money, since otherwise the reserve isn't printing off anything to hand over and it's all just numbers. I think you'll find most people use physical money more than even they think, especially in used transactions between normies.

Average joe a buys used dragon dildo from average joe b for 100 real world dollars. He goes to a bank, takes it out, hands it over, receives aformentioned mythical beast peen in return, and the economy is better for it.

>>57834451
It isn't untraceable. In fact, it's extremely traceable. There is a public ledger that everybody with the QT owns. Bitcoin is traceable

Inb4 btc tumbler

>>57844629
Yea I'm not why people think a digital currency can't be tracked back to them in some way. This is why governments love digital currency and cashless societies. They can tax every little corner and nook and cranny and follow every transaction.

>>57844216

What you idiots are doing isn't business sense, it IS guesswork.

>>57844877
>What you idiots are doing isn't business sense, it IS guesswork.
I'm not a trader, retard. I'm trying to explain that Bitcoin is valuable, Bitcoin isn't going to spontaneously crash, and why it is valuable. It's been several years now. It's not a fad anymore; it's just niche.

>>57845246

I am aware that it has a value you weon - the fact that it has the price it has makes that self-evident.

However, I do not feel confident at all that it will continue to rise in price, so I'd rather put my investing money into a retirement fund, managed by people who actually know what the fuck they're investing in.

And I don't buy fake drugs from darknet markets, so I have no need for the "currency" either.

>>57834475
What kind of scam is this shit? How am I supposed to know if people will actually respect my lunar property if spaceX or someone lands on the moon?

>People who don't understand the blockchain breakpoint

>>57834855

I bought 5 bitcoin back when they were worth absolutely nothing many many years ago and then forgot everything about it like what my wallet was and everything.

Regret it pretty bad.

>>57845477

Considering it is illegal by current international law to own any land off this planet, your $30 land will never be recognized.

>>57834364
>gold reserves
whatyearisit.jpeg

>>57845841
Then why are companies buying land too? Just in case it does play out advantageously?

well if train has already left for mining bitcoins then why the fuck do you expect normies and general audience to use it?

>>57834198
I've got one better.

>be me
>mine FORTY THOUSAND btc
>oh neat, they're worth a penny each.
>bored and figure I'll sell them off for half value just to get them gone before the "bubble" bursts and this bunch of ones and zeroes I have are back to worthless bits of encrypted data
>sell 40,000 btc for $200
>40,000 btc today: $30,279,200

And that's how I blew my one chance at ever being a millionaire by selling my bitcoin for half a penny each when they're worth almost $737 each now.

>>57842656
Except it's the exact same question you can ask about ANY currency in the world, practically.

I mean, most countries use fiat currency. Those bits of paper and coins are backed by nothing.

>>57834920
the "math" behind bitcoin was never about giving it value. almost currencies have no inherit value, and if you think about it long enough, none of them do including gold. the math was to have a built-in control over the supply.

>>57834198
>around same time period when bitcoin is just starting.
>buy hd5870 on impulse during a newegg flash sale to mine
>never end up mining, never really use 5870 even though it was the really high-end one because I moved to 2x 460 SLI

>still have 5870, 6770, 4650 that I got on shady ebay deals but I never used them

should I sell these things? I don't feel like I would ever use them for gaming, so the only thing I can think of is to sell them or use them to run MADVR high settings?

I bought a lot of stupid shit around 2010 that I didnt need and never used.

>>57846022
probably, or just to say they did. it's cheap and companies have money to blow. even for a poorfag like me $30 is nothing. and even if I never get to own moon land, I still bought $30 worth of the idea. how is it any different than useless conversation piece "art" or buying a street name or something?
if I owned a company that I thought would last I would buy some moon land. I could put it in an ad like "location soon opening on THE MOON" or something.

>>57834506
>all these years later and people still don't know what socialism is

>>57834558
for bitcoin? yes, it's pointless. you can mine other currencies though and either try to make a small profit that way or bank on them being more valuable in the future, which very well could happen. in your lifetime there might be many reasons why bitcoin looses it's value or becomes unusable for some reason, causing a rise in value of another cryptocurrency, possibly because it's more mathematically advanced or has more features or something. but then it's like collecting baseball cards or anything else you think might rise in value. if you're going to do it treat it as a hobby and don't invest too much and you'll be fine. there was a time when some kid could spend his saved birthday money on cards and move into a a shitty apartment and mine using cheap/stolen electricity and make bank, but that time is over and will probably never happen again.

>>57834603
a lottery is blind chance, nothing more than gambling. bitcoin was and is an investment, completely different. and back in the day if you did your research it was an easy investment with tangible and relatively quick payoff. you could get more money than the card and electricity cost pretty easily.

>>57834079
Can someone tell me what make bitcoins so valuable? I don't get how it works.

>>57847731
Ouch. I would seriously consider killing myself after this.

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>tfw after the bitcoin explosion i mined a bunch of coins from different promising crypto currencies and now have the wallet files sitting in my email just in case some of them goes big
and now we play the waiting game
sure, most would say its hopeless, but those same people said bitcoin won't go anywhere too
So if nothing happens i lost nothing and if it goes big i will be rich instead of hating myself for not doing it.

>>57845841
So what happens if elon musk decides to just land some battle bot on the moon, walk over to the NASA research site and fuck up their shit, billions worth of exquipment, for fun?
Technically not illegal

>>57848727
Your best chance is waiting for a pump and dump, they probably won't go big like btc, but you might make some cash if you get lucky.

bitcoin mining is a meme. GET REAL - Bitcoin is a scam

>>57834493
God I fucking hate you and I hate that you think this makes you sound smart.

You'll never be able to compete with chinese players with their own chip factory and a data centre next door to a cheap as fuck powerplant.

You can make way more money with bitcoin trading than you will ever be able to get from mining. The profit margin is way small if you live in any country with expensive electricity and hardware.

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>>57848904
>libertarian anarchocapitalistic crypto-currency of the future
>controlled by the communist party of China

>casually mined some shit for a week or two during 2010 or so
>get about half a coin
>forget about it
>years later
>it turns into hundred or so bucks
>buy amazon giftcards with it
Meh and meh

Y'all niggas need to get on BurstCoin

>>57834198

I know that I'm too much of a pussy to do investing, so I'm not really that sad about not buying. I actually had one or two BTC, but I lost them since they were on Silkroad back before it got v&.

>>57848739
Yup they can't do anything, I mean unless he lives on Mars he could probably get in trouble on Earth.

>>57834364
>which backs it up with gold reserves

WE WUZ TIME TRAVELAZ

>>57848904
>>57849066

Wrong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-fUosBOu58

>>57840707
go find it fool

>>57848739
>technically not illegal
>civil law does not exist

this isn't some kind of scifi movie where "earth law doesn't apply on mars" you sperg.

>>57849938
Nigga 70% of btc hash power is located in 1 ( one ) building in China.

>>57852327
That's not true. Are you thinking of this? https://blog.bitmain.com/en/bitmain-to-set-high-standards-with-state-of-the-art-xinjiang-data-center/

If so, it's only in the planning phase. It will be long before it's up and running, and at that time it won't represent 70% of the total power anymore.

>>57847731

Don't beat yourself up over it, the truth is that you would have never ever been able to cash out a million dollars worth of bitcoins. Unless you managed to sell them all at once, the price would begin to crater.

>>57834302
Never listen to /g/

>>57834411
Look it up retard

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>The founder of buttcoin magazine/ETH creator is called Vitalik Butterin

Has meme magic gone too far?

>>57834198

>first job in 2009
>save money for stuff
>saw paper about bitcoin and it beeing discussed in various irc chats
>think about buying 5000btc, still dirt cheap back then
>nah mate it'll probably fail and your money is lost
>forget about it
>some years later its 100$ per coin
>ok too late to get on that train

i eventually realized how much i fucked up

>>57834364

>people actually believe that shit

>>57834493

By that logic, you would send a loaf of bread and a potato to your ISP so they allow you to post low quality bait.

I guess Bitcoin could be compared to gift cards and pre-paid debit or credit cards, you can use it to buy most items, but really can't get money back from it.

>>57835253
You can trace transactions through the block chain.

>How can you prove that you obtained bitcoin by a means which is accordance to law?

There are plenty of exchanges/Bitcoin ATM's which fully comply with US law.

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>>57837005
You walk up to a Bitcoin ATM, and walk away with cash.

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>>57852205

>>57834079
It depends on how much money you can invest and how much your electricity costs. If you've got electricity at $0.10/kwh and >$10,000 to invest, sure. You'll get a modest return after a very long period of time. If you're lucky you'll make $5/mo.

If you want to make more money with it, learn about investing in currency. Due to the volatile nature of bitcoin there's still plenty of money to be made by buying and selling.

>>57835527
>>57840376
Gold and silver-backed currency hasn't been a thing for a very long time. The US dollar is backed by.....wait for it.......absolutely nothing.

>>57842284
>If they want to use this shit to launder dirty money or bankroll terrorism I say fuck them.
The US dollar pays for more terrorism and gang activity than bitcoin by a very very wide margin.

>>57834221
>The "value" of "bitcoin" is backed in what exactly?
Technically it's backed first by the miners and second by the market (in a system where the miners stop mattering after awhile). Lately there have been several upticks in value as citizens of certain countries see more value in it than their own currency. Two examples are China and India. Bitcoin is actually worth significantly more in India right now because their currency is shit.

To compare to the USD: USD is not backed by anything other than the US government (and banks). The federal reserve is free to print money when it's agreed that it is wise to do so (which devalues the currency). Bitcoin is hard-limited to a certain number of coins. You cannot make more coins once all have been mined. Because of this it should end up with a more stable position relative to other currencies.

>>57855453
>The US dollar is backed by.....wait for it.......absolutely nothing.

That can't be true.

>>57855640
It's absurd but it's a system that many countries are switching to.

>>57840376
>>57855453
What is gold anyways.

>>57856496
From a technical perspective in relation to money?
Gold is (and more importantly was) a rare resource. Because it was rare people mined it to use as currency. The whole point of modern currencies being backed by gold was that gold was still rare. Removing gold from the equation meant that money was no longer tied to something rare and could be inflated or deflated at a whim. It's great if you're a big bank, you can profit off of minor value changes that you invoked. You might as well be printing money (which the Federal Reserve does).

>>57855496
>The US dollar pays for more terrorism and gang activity than bitcoin by a very very wide margin.

Not by percentage of total amount of transactions. Most dollar transactions are lawful in nature. Most bitcoin transactions are not - it's all ransomware/dark markets/laundering. The only legal use of bitcoin right now is speculation basically.

>>57855640
>That can't be true.

Lmao, HEY EVERYBODY, GET A LOAD OF THIS GUY

>>57856822
>The only legal use of bitcoin right now is speculation basically.
And buying shit on Newegg, Dell.com, paying for TV service through Dish Network, and several other things:
http://www.coindesk.com/information/what-can-you-buy-with-bitcoins/

>>57856326
You mean, a system to which *all* countries switched decades ago?

>>57856965
All Rothschild-owned.
Notable ones that did not:
Libya
Russia
China

There are others but I'm not in a rush to look them up.

>>57855453
It's backed by the government, you idiot