The future of OSes

>Linux hasn't shown any signs of getting more understandable for normies, stunting their share and impact
That's due to Microsoft's heavy fear mongering campaign, indoctrinating normies to think it's hard to use.

>>57752051
You know Windows 10 is actually good right?

>>57752064
linux is still objectively too much inane work for anyone to put up with, with its horde of ridiculous issues, every program and alternative being buggy, every useful thing being in perpetual beta, etc

>>57752051
Linux will stagnate for a while, or be absorbed and de-freedomed by Microsoft

Microsoft will stagnate until the few software engineers who know how old shit works die off and the rest are forced to finally kill off decade+ old legacy software support, moving onto something new and better

Apple will continue to fuck up as long as Cook is in charge

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>>57752097
inb4
>nsa lolol nice botnet xd

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>>57752097
>telemetry
>lots of bugged shit eating up 100% of hard drive use
>settings getting reverted because fuck u
>ads
>automatic installing apps without your consent
>automatic updates
>no cohesive design (pic related)
>2 different preference panels
>shit compatibility with old games
>and so on

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>>57752051
>Linus Torvalds will die someday and the kernel will go to shit

Oh God, you're right. I never thought about this.

>>57752064
>Using Linux Mint
>Go to update flash
>It asks me which installer I want to download
>Gives me 4 options
>Choose one and download it
>Have to extract it
>Have to open a readme file
>Have to use terminal

All to just fucking update flash. Normies will never figure this shit out. As much as I would like to blame Microsoft for everything under the sun because they're pieces of shit - Linux isn't even close to user friendly in anything more than web browsing and writing up a word document.

the year of linux desktop will be the year when directx gets ported to linux

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>>57752051
I'm not a meme anon!

>>57752325
>sudo pacman -Syuu
>difficult

>>57752405
this is probably true, assuming that someone doesn't make an interpreter for it

>>57752105
t. someone who hasn't used any begginer-friendly distro in the last 5 years

>>57752051
>Linus Torvalds will die someday
nonsense. he will put his brain into some machine and exist forever
Stallman won't because "that screw right here uses propietary model"

>>57752703
>implying stallman won't evolve to a superior being that doesn't need a corporeal body and fuses with the universe so everything that ever was, is, and ever will, becomes free as in freedom.

>>57752051
Nothing wrong with Linux.

>>57752105
>"objectively"
>substance-less rhetoric
>buzzword
Microsoft employees get out.

>>57752642
>implying they dont suffer those problems

>>57752941
>implying they do

>>57752785
>im not typing out the quintillion problems for your entertainment. what buzzword?

>>57752968
not supposed to be greentext

>>57752405
Vulkan? I've read that it was written specifically worth the goal of making dx12 ports super easy...

The problem with gnu/linux is all the forks. Do we really need 1000+ distros? No. Almost every debian gnu/linux runs the same programs the same way, so investing all of our resources from say the debian company, canonical, xubuntu, kubuntu, lubuntu etc into making one version of linux thats light on resources but allows for powerhouse usage and has most stuff as an optional dl, not preinstalled would be goat. Only then would gnu linux actually be able to compete with Windows and apple for casual marketshare

>>57752325
I blame the lack standard gui applications. Do you know how many file managers there are. Instead of a kickass intuitive and light universal file manager we have a plethora of shitty ones. Also The Unix philosophy of a program doing one thing well dose not translate to desktop environments. User want a small amount of applications to do everything they need to do.

>>57753750
>kickass intuitive and light universal file manager

As OSX or W10 have anything like that, though if you master mc or a not so dumb filemanager on linux/bsd you will be more productive than any cucks on proprietary garbage. Also 1 developer + 1 developer isn't 2. Every big company have this issue.

>>57752242
what is it with this sjw culture and being so overly dramatic about everything? why can't you millenials just practice being absolutely honest for a change?

>>57752051
>Linux hasn't shown any signs of getting more understandable for normies, stunting their share and impact
Normies are the best users for linux. They don't care about games or exclusive software and they can't tell the difference between LibreOffice and MS Office.
>>57753750
Dolphin and Nemo shit all over finder and explorer.

on the topic of Oses, can someone tell me how to install javascript and flashplayer on linux mint?

>>57752051
my future: OpenBSD with FDE all the way

others' futures: idgaf

>>57755981
>my future: OpenBSD with FDE all the way
In the ebin.

>>57755846
All of his points are valid though. Windows has gone downhill since 7 and I regret having to install that garbage if I want to use the new DirectX.

Two things have to happen for Windows to "go away":
1. Linux needs an office suite that is just as good as Microsoft Office, or an online alternative that does everything as well. Right now the online alternatives are patchwork.
2. DirectX has to be fully supplanted by Vulkan or OpenGL.

Microsoft is using DirectX to shoehorn people into adopting their new Windows releases. It is their bargaining piece and it is a business decision. You just spent all that money on hardware? Sure would be a shame if you had to buy our OS to fully utilize it...

I actually don't buy the user friendliness argument anymore because the noob distros really have improved a lot in that department, mainly in the last 5 years. But there is going to be a lag before that is realized at all, and people won't even investigate at all until #1 and #2 above are actualized.

Unfortunately the Linux community blows off gamers and blows off office software and doesn't realize (or doesn't care) they need both if they really want to expand.

>>57756255
>>Unfortunately the Linux community blows off gamers and blows off office software and doesn't realize (or doesn't care) they need both if they really want to expand.

at least in the case of office software I think this is a result of a big gap between the people who use and code for Linux now and normies. Linux people don't care that they have to select a different save format in libreoffice and possibly have a chance of MS word rendering it funny. Normies don't know what a file format is, let alone why they'd want or need to select a different one, and they very steadfastly do not want to learn.

basically you'll never get most normies to use your OS until you dumb it down so that they don't have to think about anything to use it. I'm okay with Linux never doing that, let the masses use Windows and OS X then.

>>57756388
why not have one or two linux distros that dumb it down that hard and plenty others for people who aren't retarded? wouldnt that be much better?
It'd also make it easier for intermediate users and skiddies to learn more.

>>57756435
We have that. They're called Ubuntu and Mint.

Amiga will come back from the dead with their revolutionary "free dragon dildo with every machine" marketing campaign.
And computing will be saved.

>>57756460
Then why not say 'let the masses use noobuntu' or whatever? That'd be much better than them using OSX or dogwangs

>>57756255
>Linux needs an office suite that is just as good as Microsoft Office

If you had any idea about computing history, specifically Microsoft's involvement with it, you'd know that quality was never the issue.

BeOS was a vastly superior OS to anything else at the time, didn't do it any good though.

>>57756523
>>If you had any idea about computing history, specifically Microsoft's involvement with it, you'd know that quality was never the issue.

99% of people will always use whatever OS their computer comes with, no matter how good or bad it is. And almost all machines sold to consumers come with Windows or OS X. You have to go out of your way to get a Linux machine.

If I remember right Microsoft facilitated this by charging OEMs a license fee per machine sold, if they wanted to put Windows on any machines at all. Which of course incentivizes them to put Windows on everything, since they're paying for it. I don't know if they still do this.

>>57756502
Because we already do??

Are you new here?

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desu the only reason I use Windows is because of video game cheats

>>57753750
>do one thing well
This was never meant to be for the user.
The user is supposed to write bash scripts, chaining a bunch of applications that do one thing.
Applications like file managers will do a lot of different things.
The best one we have is dolphin and that is basically just a terminal with a gui.

The only problem we have with the terminal is that the magical new user does not know what to type to make the computer do stuff.
Why not just improve the learning experience, so they feel comfortable with the main reason people use gnu/linux

>>57756766
The issue is that computers don't come with manuals any more, and no one (for some reason) would tolerate reading one even if they did.

>>57752064
Linux is a pain in the dick. I like using it but when something goes wrong it's rarely easy to fix.

>>57752642
I'm not him but I installed mint on my laptop.

4 days later, of all me having done is browse the internet and watch anime, it suddenly just stops recognizing my audio output and I had to spend 50 minutes googling shit and trying it to get my audio to work


i've never had anything like that happen on windows

>>57756880
This, although I would argue this is the case for Windows and OSX too except they're very good at sweeping any not immediate issues under the rug.

>>57756056
whatever that means

it means i only have to worry about the services running on my computer getting hacked, not the 100 million lines of code apparently required to spawn a firefox window

Just use Linux and stop being a normie.

I used Linux on a laptop for a year. It was awful. I changed it to Windows 10 and now it runs surprisingly well.

Pretty sad that a 27gb OS runs better than Linux. I guess size is not an issue when you have competent engineers developing your OS.

>>57752051
>>Linux hasn't shown any signs of getting more understandable for normies, stunting their share and impact


I think it is. Slowly but surely the Linux casual community is moving from an image of wanting to be le l33t hacker man to playing pretend UNIX System Admin. But this actually a good thing because the mentality among this group is to make things actually...good. Easy to use.

So on the whole Linux is easier to install, set-up, and use in your daily life than it has ever been.

>>57752105
>install Xubuntu
>choose one of the default themes (or don't since Greybird is just fine)
>download programs through software center
>get to work

The "ridiculous issues" are almost always user created by trying to twist and turn the OS in ways it either isn't designed for (playing 3d accelerated games with GPU passthrough or Wine) or needlessly complicated (installing buggy rice elements).

Things which, by the way, are about as equally shitty on Windows, it's just that most of us learned to deal with it as teenagers and don't realize or remember how hard that hump was to get over in the first place.

One other note: people should learn to use the terminal at least in order to install and remove programs through apt-get. It takes 5 minutes to get the hang of it is by far easier to just google what you want and find its installation page on the ubuntu wiki and get it through apt-get rather than fuck about software center or .deb files (assuming ubuntu because any other Linux for casuals or non-CS workers is stupid).

>>57752138
I think the ultimate end for Linux is to be the kernel for Windows 11 (it won't be called this, but that's what it will be). They are already in the process of testing it on the down-low with Azure Cloud Switch.

>>57753740
absolutely this

>>57758386
EEE still alive and well at MS.

>>57758337
The problem is that skilled Linux user want a non bloated distrib. So a distrib that target only casuals, like Ubuntu, will always repel skilled users. But you need skilled users to help casuals. SO we must invent a distrib that is targeted to everyone.

>>57753740
This contradicts the first tenant, libre

>>57758337
more like
>fresh install
>boot
>shutdown
>systemd's left-column console layout is all fucked up
you literally cannot go 1 minute without some basic shit in linux disappointing you without even having done anything

>>57756634
I doubt this, considering that most retailers sell systems with Windows, but charge you for the license.

It would make no sense for them to charge you for something they are getting paid to ship with the PC.

This issue was particularly evident when Intel came out with the compute sticks. The cheapest ones benefited from Microsoft's free licensing for small devices, but those with more than 2GB of RAM included the price of a windows license.

So Microsoft may occasionally let OEMs ship a Windows system without paying a license, just because they want to maintain their share of the ecosystem even on small and cheap devices.

>>57758661
>It would make no sense for them to charge you for something they are getting paid to ship with the PC.
people would still buy it because they dont know better

more monies for the greedy fuckers

they would charge you for the air you breathe if they could

>>57752051
>Linux hasn't shown any signs of getting more understandable for normies, stunting their share and impact

Good. I think normies should stay on windoes or homOSeX.

>>57758490
A skilled linux user has the choice of installing via the minimal net install ISO which comes with only the core utilities. It doesn't include a browser, email client, word processor, or anything like that. Just the kernel, shell, and gui.

>>57759028
>"gui"
>he doesn't shitpost from the frambuffer

>>57758591
I think it's not the OS, I think it's just that you are a dumbass.

>>57759046
Why does /g/ have such an issue with this term lately?

>>57759048
yeah, you can totally fuck up a clean install using a graphical installer that just asks which programs you want and does the rest. It's totally reasonable for shit like output formatting to be borked then. The user can totally fuck up a process he hardly has a say in.

you are whats wrong with linux and why linux will never become mainstream if you think everything about it is so goddamn finger-licking perfect right now

>>57753740
Linux reminds me of that an-cap joke about the roads.

>>57752051
This is what happens when you let the NSA run your companies.

>>57752312
isn't it already shit?

>>57757183
>>57757830
kek

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>>57752762
>tfw this will never happen.

I'd do anything to make this reality.

>>57753740
Well most of the 1000 distros of linux have either been abandoned by the maintainers or are extremely small clones of other distos. Most of linux use today is now on 10-20 different distros, most of which are based on ubuntu/debian which makes much of the support and features being the same for many of the distros.

>>57759610
The only way that would happen is if you kill yourself and your entire family.

>>57752051
linux is as easy as mac or windows, /g/ just thinks they are smart

>>57752051
>>57752138
>Linus is what makes Linux good
Being this autistic

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>>57759361
I don't even know what the fuck you're talking about

>>57752097
no, it's beyond shit. it's so utterly awful that I cannot even begin to describe it. it's like they took windows 8 and instead of improving it they just had pajeet pootella unload his diarrhea all over it. I used it and it's so bad that I went back to 7, and I would rather install vista than ever use 10 again.

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>>57759730
e d g y

>>>/rules/
2. You will immediately cease and not continue to access the site if you are under the age of 18.

>>57756743
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE that teacher should be drawn and quartered what the fuck

>>57760138
Nice shitpost, retard.

>Shitposting is "knowingly contributing low quality, off-topic, or ill intentioned posts."

>>>/rules/
6. The quality of posts is extremely important to this community. Contributors are encouraged to provide high-quality images and informative comments.

>>57760168
encouraged not enforced

>>57756743
Please let that picture be fake

>>57752097
Why does this meme exist? Are there really so much of you winbabbies who are willing to overlook the flaws just because you get spied upon? You think you are getting all this attention, but in reality it's just sold on to advertisers who use it automatically.
Unless someone wants to hurt you or take money from you nobody is actually looking at the data collected from you

>>57752051
Why are people thinking that Linux will lose vision? The freeness and openness of Linux will continue to allow for people to say "fuck you" to the mainstream versions of Linux and as a result we will continue to see incredible things like Gentoo or Funtoo or Arch or Trisquel or what have you!

Linux is the freedom to remake Linux in your own image with the tools used to make it.

>>57752105
This is not even remotely true. Linux is way easier for people who don't know anything than windows. Give someone clueless Ubuntu and Windows 10 and they will be able to do what they want on Ubuntu, but Windows 10 requires a lot more work to learn

Linux has an unstable binary interface. Steam doesn't even run on ubuntu 16.10. No developer is going to tolerate this bullshit. Being unable to package an app that will work on all systems kills real development.

>>57752105
Linux Mint is easier then Windows these days. My 8 year old kid can app-get stuff now.

>>57752097
Isnt that the one that pumps ads into your DE? Sounds stupid as fuck.

>>57752998
Vulkan and direct x are not the same thing, although deal with the same problem

>>57760347
Thats ubongos fault, I can run steam on my gentoo box just fine with a more recent kernel

>>57760347
That's Steams fault.

If your program isn't free as in freedom, then you either put up with the new ABIs and shit fast, or you fuck off.

>>57752051
>the day they decide to merge chromeOS and Android
Both running Linux :^)

>>57760347
>not using my shitty dialog bash script to fix it

#!/bin/sh
tempfile=`tempfile 2>/dev/null` || tempfile=/tmp/test$$
dialog --menu "This program 'fixes' Steam when it fails to open." 12 63 5 1 "Delete conflicting files" 2 "Delete conflicting files (if 1 doesn't)" 3 "Restore files deleted by this program" 2>$tempfile
 
 
if [ "$?" = "0" ]
then
    _return=$(cat $tempfile)
 
    if [ "$_return" = "1" ]
    then
            clear
            echo Files deleted:
            find ~/.steam/root/ \( -name "libgcc_s.so*" -o -name "libstdc++.so*" -o -name "libxcb.so*" -o -name "libgpg-error.so*" \) -print -delete
            echo Conflicting files have now been deleted.
    fi

    if [ "$_return" = "2" ]
    then
            clear
            echo Files deleted:
            find ~/.local/share/Steam/ \( -name "libgcc_s.so*" -o -name "libstdc++.so*" -o -name "libxcb.so*" -o -name "libgpg-error.so*" \) -print -delete
            echo Conflicting files have now been deleted.
    fi

    if [ "$_return" = "3" ]
    then
            clear
            steam --reset
            echo Files deleted by this program have now been restored.
    fi
else
            clear
            echo Exiting program.
fi
 
rm -f $tempfile

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>>57752097
Yea-
Nah.

It's god awful.

>>57752051
>Linus Torvalds will die someday and the kernel will go to shit

The kernel is already shit.

>>57760385

>easy

>want $application
>not in default repo
>find third party repo with google
>repo mirror isn't up anymore because the volunteers that ran it said fuck it
>find working repo after 5 tries
>$shared_object.so is 4.3.1, need 4.3.0
>installing the right shared object fucks the whole toolchain
>ask about it on IRC
>lol noob why would you want that application?

As soon as Torvalds dies, someone will fork the kernel. The fact that he is still in control and no one has done so yet, is just out of respect for him and because it has done so well under his supervision (and because everyone is lazy and wants to let him handle it). If he wasn't around, we'd probably see a bunch of distros maintaining their own kernel forks and building their shit right into the kernel. So we'd have shit distros with shit kernels and good distros with good kernels.

Realistically, the only thing we need for Linux to really take over is Vulkan supplanting DX. Nvidia started releasing drivers that work with Wayland, Qt and GTK work with Wayland now, so all we really need is a desktop environment that isn't complete ass and doesn't rely on x.org, and then we'll be golden.

>>57752416

Fucking this. There's too many Linux distros with too many subtle differences for anyone to develop anything useful that works on all of them. We need standardization.

>>57763266
That's why you should use Arch Linux :^)
It's as simple as

yaourt <application name>

:^)))

>>57752439

>sudo pacman -Syuu

That's great until some special snowflake developer decides to change the config syntax of some package in the base system and your computer stops booting because of it.

>>57760385
sounds like he's pretty good with the cyber, gj raising him right

>>57763337
I've been using arch for over 2 years and that has never happened to me.
Stop spreading FUD.

>>57763366
it was easier to just reinstall when they changed to systemd. there was that stupid symlink shit too

It's entirely possible that Android will expand into the desktop space in the future. It's a whole lot more stable than Linux, more free than Windows, and it would be relatively simple for companies to do drivers for it, because everyone's already writing Android drivers for their phone hardware. All it would need is some minor tweaking of the UI to be more suitable for a mouse and keyboard.

>plug in device on Windows
>just werks™
>plug in device on Mac
>just werks™
>plug in device on Linux
>lol no drivers

>>57763366

You're the one spreading fud. There's no way you've been updating an arch install for 2 years without being fucked by a surprise config syntax change.

>>57763410

>plug in device on Linux
>lol no drivers

Or the driver has dependency conflicts with other packages

>>57763410
i have never run into this problem but people who run "real distros" probably do

>>57756880
>waaaah I don't wanna learn more than I need to
>waaaah I can't fix my own life problem cuz noone told me how
stay pleb

>>57756866
This is the entire problem with the human race

>>57763410
>Plug in mouse on windows
>Wait for drivers to install
>Plug into different usb port
>Installs again
>Plug in mouse on GNU/LINUX
>It already works

>tfw i installed Elementary OS on my parents computers and they havent had a problem for a year now

feels good man. all they do is youtube and google things. it feels good to not have to worry about them getting a virus and losing all my inheritance money

>>57763410
It's more like
>plug in device on Windows
>Installing drivers...
>plug in device on Mac
>just kidding it doesn't fit
>plug in device on Linux
>just werks [CC BY-SA]/install from repository

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>>57752064
>>57752773
>>57752785
>>57756388
>>57763441
All This.

>>57763441

>mouse works on Linux

Until Xorg fucks itself

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>>57763575
>2016
>Xorg

>>57763575
Never happened to me.
And I switched to linux like 5 years ago after a blue screen of death.

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Most normies that get into linux want to be "L33t Haxoz" and realize "Oh shit, I have to problem solve if I want cool shit to happen??? Fuck that."

Awesome takes effort; especially if it's not natural for you.
You don't see us mathematicians trying to taech you fuckers Calc3. YOU DONT NEED IT, WE DO. You want to try something new in life(Linux/Win/Painting/Skateboarding)? Get ready to break SOMETHING.

Yes. Linux IS hard to get into. Understand how to properly LEARN. Hell, properly understanding that with new/different things, NEW AND DIFFERENT PROBLEMS NEED TO BE SOLVED.

>>57759730
Awwww; It's typing :3

>Linux hasn't shown any signs of getting more understandable for normies
Normies need to get the fuck out of computing. Problem fucking solved.

>>57752051
Linux isn't hard you are just lazy.

>>57763685
They already kind of are. Most people primarily use their tablets and phones for everything.

>>57763665

>Yes. Linux IS hard to get into. Understand how to properly LEARN. Hell, properly understanding that with new/different things, NEW AND DIFFERENT PROBLEMS NEED TO BE SOLVED.

And there's a whole community of elitist neckbeards waiting to ridicule you for your choices if you ever need help. Yes. The very same basement dwellers that blame Microsoft for single digit Linux desktop market share.

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>>57763838
>market share
>Linux is free

>>57763887

Free as in free puppy

>>57755895
>Dolphin and Nemo shit all over finder and explorer.
this
Nemo is absolutely fucking killer, I don't miss Win7 explorer at all after using it for months now.

>>57755895

b-b-but muh choice

>>57764003
This.

Don't complain if you decide to take the responsibility.

templeOS is the future

>>57763838
>And there's a whole community of elitist neckbeards waiting to ridicule you for your choices if you ever need help
>need someone to PERSONAL tell you how to do everything
Proof of my point.

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>>57763838
>wah, wah, bitch, whine

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>>57756910
>i've never had anything like that happen on windows

>>57764424
And your level of intellect at solving anything slowly decreases.

I started using Mint a little under a year ago. I realize it's probably the easiest distro to dive into, but whatever.
I've had a few problems with it, but nothing a quick google search or just hammering it out myself didn't solve.
The reasons nobody uses linux are
A) There are so many distros and people are to lazy to research the one they want
B) They need to actually get it and install it rather than it just coming with the laptop/desktop they bought
C) Being able to use the terminal/command line is still a requirement of linux, even if microscopic in some distros, where as you can be computer illiterate and still navigate your way through windows and osx.

>get rid of X11

First step achieved.

>>57752439
I didn't want to play pacman you filthy neckbeard. I'm wanting to update flash ffs.

>>57752097
>windows 10
>good
pick one

>>57763323
>yaourt
Kill yourself

>>57756910
try plugging your headphones back in

>>57752051
Yes, botnet os is going to happen. Linux should remain Nice as long as you dont drone after linux foundation, no or even numbers modulo 4. No apple Will become iOS technologies

>>57752051
Botnet OS will happen but I think I'll just stay on Linux. It's open source. If it gets bad people will fork and do it again.

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>>57752051
People don't use any OS - they use devices.
Mac means they use MacOS, PC means they use Windows. To bring something new, we need a new device class.
You can see netbooks as an example. nobody cared if they came with linux. Same with phones an tablets.
The big problem i see, is the lack of diversity in the PC sector. Even the Macs are just Intel boxes.
I'm a MCSE since 2000 and i switched completely to Linux, because nowadays it's the better choice. But as long as PC is directly connected to Windows in minds, no other OS will sucess on this plaform.

>>57765195
RIP 68k

;_;

>>57752097
it's ebin /g/ meme
let them use their shit meme OS

>>57765289
RIP the days when we actually had a choice.

>>57752051
linux isnt hard to use. ubuntu is more user friendly than vista.

it has shit adoption rates and most windows applications dont work. wine is a piece of shit. its dead like windows phone because there are no applications

>>57752064
The level of delusion of freetards and linuxcucks is just incredible.

I've been dealing with these types of responses since the early 2000s so I know even if this is bait, there are a bunch of people who actually think like this.

>>57765358
I know. I mean, it's one of those things where it might not have been better in a logical sense (whoops, can't read this plaintext file because the floppy was formatted on another PC), but it terms of having variation, and choice, in what kind of PC you ran and what you did with it, and each PC having an identity of its own, I think that was better.

I just hate how it's all x86 running Windows, or Windows-like (lets not kid ourselves, Linux wants to be Windows) operating systems.

I want to support ARM as a viable desktop, but you know that, even if it did happen, all it would be used for is Linux and no actually interesting OSs.

>>57765442
Linux is a kernel my dude. Maybe some distros or desktops try to be windows-like, sure. That's mostly just because it's familiar. Go use Ubuntu or Fedora if you want something different.

>>57759028
sounds a bit like ARCH - no?

>>57765442
>>57765462
The issue is that modern computers are all based on old server OSs, rather than single-user originals for that hardware.

>>57765525
Windows NT was a massive improvement over Windows 9x

>>57765555
check'd

>>57765462
Nah, he is right. You can't use only the kernel. You need to choose a Distribution. And all of the Desktop Distributions are getting constantly compared to Windows like 'Look, it's just like Windows' or 'Look, it's easier than Windows'.
Of course you can use whatever DE you want, but generic desktop users don't want to mod and rice. They just want to use a computer.
>>57765525
mostly true. Imo 'make the OS portable' instead of 'make the data portable' was a bad choice.
>>57765555
True, but that was easy to accomplish.

>>57765555
It's still a server OS that needs to be dragged back down in to a home computer, rather than just making a good home computer OS in the first place.

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>>57752051
Introducing;linux for normies

>>57765617
But what makes an OS to a Server OS?

>>57765692
Well the easiest answer would be "single user" opposed to "multi user".

>>57765358
>>57765442
The real shame is that we're at the point in technology being so cheap that someone could easily have multiple devices for different things without having to worry about cost.

When you can buy a computer more powerful than what someone paid hundreds for only 10 years ago for about £30 today, the idea of needing to buy a computer or operating system that does everything should really be put to bed. It's also bad for business and consumers to have this one-size-fits-all model since it makes them powerless. An office running a special brand of OS will not have to worry about a new update doubling resource usage, because the OS would be totally built about keeping this to a minimum.

This is why I'm fine with the web becoming more phone friendly: it frees up the desktop to pursue other goals.

There is no reason that we can't have an immensely powerful (in terms of capabilities) operating systems and software on the single-board computers that fit in a pocket. And I don't really count Linux as a "powerful" OS in a home setting because what it does well doesn't really apply to what a home user would require their OS to do. What do file permissions mean to the guy who wants to make music?

>>57765692
and optimized for server use only. FS tuned to handle alot of small files and such.

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>>57752064
>that's what freetards believe

>>57765746
>>57766084
i think it's about several points:
1. Multi User
This feature doesn't fit in desktop use anymore.
multi user workstations made sense back in the times. Nowadays it's expendable.
2. Portability
a Server OS should run on a machine that fits my needs. Different needs means different setups.
A desktop PC don't really needs this - Apple proves it.
3. Services
As the name says, the server should serve some services... There is no reason for an OS integrated webserver on a desktop.
>>57766281
Good point. But what was 'a lot of small files' when Server OS's became a thing, is now a browser cache. you need to handle a lot a small files nowadays even on a desktop. But i think permissions on FS level isn't necessary on a desktop anymore, because it's more common that a single user has multiple devices than that a device has multiple users.

>>57766438
In the case of Linux you also have the most obvious point: X is (was?) network capable.

>>57766506
It still is - it's based on this. It's also great and gives you a lot of possibilities. But nobody needs these possibilities on a generic desktop PC.

>>57756743
Hope that picture is fake or at least the teacher is a nigger.

>>57766593
Which is my point.

Also, I must have misremembered, but I thought I read once that X wasn't network capable now. Unless they were referring to X as its currently used on machines, with the various extensions.

>>57762627
>>57762874
It's funny that still proves the point of >>57760347

I really like the way that programs in OSX are installed, just grab a folder, move it to applications and you're done.
Why can't have this thing in Linux? We could combine it with package management and be uber powerful and simple.
Why user applications should be thrown into /usr and shit, when they can reside in /home/user/apps?

>>57766778
Because it's a 20 year old server OS based off a 50 year old server OS.

I think RISC-OS worked something like that. If you put an exclamation mark in front of a program's folder it will treat that folder as an executable, so double clicking it will execute the program that folder contained.

>>57766827
>>57766778
That's what Flatpak is for.
>Because it's a 20 year old server OS based off a 50 year old server OS.
You could say the same about OS X.

Many schools are starting to replace textbooks with chromebooks
Maybe this is helping?

>>57763458
How does Elementary compare to Mint for normies ease of use?

>>57752416
>>57763312
they seriously need to change the logo. as silly as it sounds, many people care about design.
1. the logo looks ugly
2. it is almost as bad of an idea as using a satanic pentagram as a logo. in order to become popular you will have to appeal to normies.

>>57766894
For a extent, but OSX is more Mac OS acting over an Unix host than a Unix OS in his right.

>>57766894
Oh, yeah, we also have like five other alternatives to do the same thing.

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>>57752051
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.

>>57767080
Yes. But Linux doesn't need 100 unique ways to install software. It needs that one that's preinstalled, easy to use and works on every distribution.

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>/g/ is finally starting to wake up from the multi-user meme

And all it took was a bible-thumping schizo

>tfw haiku os will never gain mainstream usage
just

>>57767140
This is the real issue with Linux and why it will never amount to anything.

It has nothing to do with usability or anything like that, but rather too many people doing too many things in too many ways that are too similar.

I think it's because everyone wants their own shot at glory.

>>57767152
>tfw Be Inc could have his posthumus revenge if they had their source open from begin

>>57767152
Haiku is great but they really need to get their priorities straight. I mean, yes, that it has wi-fi now (or it did last I checked) is pretty cool, and the sound is much better through these dodgy laptop speakers than Linux...But their text editor crashes if you try to justify text that's already justified. And it STILL doesn't set up your GRUB partitions. In 2016 that is inexcusable*. It's like with Icaros, that can't be booted from a USB stick.

*if it does now, I'm sorry.

But really Haiku would work best as a "home" computer than as a "web" computer most people want them to be.

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>muh future
Just stop updating your OS.

>>57766438
>>57766506
Also constantly writing page and logfiles to disc.

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>>57767182
sad story.

>>57752439
Well, the Linux kernel is relied upon by some BIG companies, so it's hard to imagine it would go to shit if Linus died. There will be routers, servers and embedded systems running Linux 300 years from now.

>>57767310
Titanic was unsinkeable too.

>>57756910
I had the network manager disappear from the taskbar, while my laptop was in sleep mode. Tried connecting to a network through the settings and the window would just close

>>57752051
>Linus Torvalds will die someday

Linus is only 46. He will outlive you.

>>57756255
>Right now the online alternatives are patchwork.

Online office is pretty good.

>>57767340
>a small range of things that are here to stay forever:
SUN Microsystems
Novell
Caldera
SCO
SGI
Siemens Phones
Nokia Phones
Blackberry Phones
CP/M
OS/2
Commodore
Atari
Novell Directory Services
IBM Workstations
Siemens Workstations

>>57767489
>SUN
LEL
E
L

Could linux survive an attempt to change his architecture towards a hybrid or microkernel based one?

>>57767489
None of those achieved 99% market share and became what entire companies and governments rely on.

Even if MS were to become so financially fucked they go from billions to nothing overnight, you can bet many governments would bail them out.

You may have had people mistakingly call one computer by another name, but if someone were to call any computer a "windows" they'll probably be totally right.

Microsoft (and Intel) ARE computers.

>>57767524
You mean Intel (and Microsoft)
These days the PC is mostly a Intel design.

>>57767581
Either way the point is the same.

>>57767524
remember novell netware? remember symbian? These were really big things with a huge (and i mean a really huge) market share. Both dropped in a blink.
You just need something easier or more compatible and nobody gives a fuck about market shares or what companies / governments rely on.
In fact, they relied on Novell Netware. But hey, if i switch to AD, i don't need a second product - from top tier to nobody within a year.

>>57752064
It's not that it's "hard"; the issue is that it is "annoying".

I do sysadmin and programming, with some database admin, and I gave both Ubuntu and Mint a fair shake for some time.

It seems like every little thing you want to do requires four to five extra steps that you have to Google to get it done correctly. Not to mention the myriad of software (especially LOB software) that either doesn't work, or is a second-class citizen on Linux.

>>57767695
>You just need something easier

BeOS was much easier than Windows 95 and 98.Didn't do it any good. Also Amiga was much easier than IBM-based PCs at the time. That didn't do any good either.

>more compatible
How do you me MORE compatible with a close, propriety, format that the one that has that format? This is what killed word processors like Word Perfect: they were compatible with everything else due to their transparent syntax, or that they saved in postscript.

And stop thinking "total market dominance" is the same as "large market share." Huge is not 100% (or 99% if you want to be pedantic).

If anything were to happen it would have over 30 years of better products.

>>57767724
>It's not that it's "hard"; the issue is that it is "annoying"
Also sysadmin here. Microsoft is giving their best to take over the first place in this category.

>>57767762
>easier
Sorry, i expressed it a bit unclear. It has to be sold as easier (and cheaper) to the decision makers. That's waht happend to Novell. At their high times, they had no notable competitors.
BeOS was great - that's a fact. But it's marketing wasn't.
>more compatible
100 versions of the same App, running on the same OS but different OS versions maintained by different manufacturers vs. one version of an App, running on (nearly) all versions of the OS regardless of manufacturer. Easy choice.
That's what android did to symbian.

>>57767505
Linux is pretty much a hybrid kernel already, and seeing as the majority of the kernel is drivers I don't see much point in converting it to a microkernel.

>>57767762
>How do you me MORE compatible with a close, propriety, format that the one that has that format?

This.

>new machine and os comes out
>better in every way than the competition
>and cheaper
>has own office software
>that's faster (and better)
>and mostly compatible with ms office
>company buys in to it
>things are going well
>but then ms updates office and the format is no longer compatible
>in fact now it gives a warning upon opening saying it could damage the system
>office manager calls rep for new system
>rep has to try and counter the FUD
>but its too late
>new system has to work through the clock to get everything compatible again
>whoops another office update
>company goes back to microsoft
>new system goes bankrupt

And this will happen to any new competitor that tries to muscle in to Microsoft's racket. Every one knows this. Same with Intel; it's why ARM will never even consider desktops.

>>57767982
>It has to be sold as easier

Microsoft doesn't need to sell itself as easy because everyone is familiar with the conventions, to the point that you don't even need "Start" written on the start button any more. By definition anything that's not Windows will not be as easy.

>(and cheaper)

Price has never mattered before, and it doesn't now. This is what's so great about monopolies, for those that hold them.

> the decision makers

Who only know Windows. Let's say for example that an OS has a button that quits the program where the minimise button is on Windows. Just for the sake of argument.

Now, you're selling this new system to a corporate manager and everything is making him really happy. It ticks every box better than he could have ever imagined. Then he asks to have a go, and - OH NO! - he presses the quit button.

Now it's shit, and not as good as what he's used to. Time to take out another loan to keep the company afloat.

Better luck next time, right?

> one version of an App, running on (nearly) all versions of the OS regardless of manufacturer.

Oh, like Microsoft® Windows™ running Microsoft® Office™? Time to renew my licence!

You're not going to win this one. When playing with the King, the King makes the rules. "That move doesn't count," he says. "O-oh, you're right. How foolish of me, your Majesty."

>>57765504

You can do something in-between.

I don't run gnome or whatever Ubuntu ships with. I use the window manager I like and use the apps I want to use.

Arch people don't really get that you can do all of that shit on any distribution. In fact I mostly use arch docs (but have never used arch) since the arch docs are really good.

I mean just use what you want. If Ubuntu doesn't have something I want/need there is usually a ppa or compiling it from source isn't usually hard.

Linux is actually easy if you don't break out of the box it comes in, I know people who know zero about computers they can't even use Windows right, but they manage Ubuntu fine. All people need these days is

- a browser
- document editor
- image viewer/editing
- music player
- video player

So if you get their wifi and printer working most people are good. The big bonus is if you need to help them you can just remote in.

>>57768045
You already need a good stand in the business. If SAP or maybe Adobe comes out with an Office, the chances of adoption will be good.

>>57768138
>If SAP or maybe Adobe

It wont help. It doesn't matter who.

>>57768132
i didn't say it's easy to accomplish. MS did a pretty good job in marketing and created de facto standards. But meanwhile they are a bit too greedy and narcissistic.
They made some really bad decisions and their stand isn't nearly as good as it was some time ago, when Windows+Office was something 'god given law'. Many (also big players) are on the run for alternatives to replace Windows and Office. MSSQL for Linux will be released soon. They don't do it for shits and giggles. It's a reaction to shrinking market shares of their server OS.

>>57768271
They do it for embrace, extend, extinguish.

It's what you do when you make the rules.

It doesn't matter how many bad decisions they make. Companies have decades worth of files tied to MS. Governments will not let Microsoft fail, because they all rely on its software.

>>57768045
>And this will happen to any new competitor that tries to muscle in to Microsoft's racket. Every one knows this. Same with Intel; it's why ARM will never even consider desktops.
Giants like Microsoft never really get beaten by competition, they just get ruined by a series of bungles so bad that people start looking for alternatives.

>>57768232
of course it matters. Nobody else would have succeed with an alternative to Novell directory services. But MS did because they already were well known and established.

>>57768305
>for alternatives.

Oh, the alternatives that were put out of business years ago? Those alternatives? The alternatives that don't exist?

>>57768302
In this branch they don't make the rules. They never did and they never will do.

Time will tell...

>>57768325
>Oh, the alternatives that were put out of business years ago? Those alternatives? The alternatives that don't exist?
They just played their hand too early and got owned. Right place at the wrong time.

>>57768334
>In this branch they don't make the rules.

Yes they do.

>Oh no! All your Windows machines don't work with your [not-MS] server, but you can replace it for a Windows server for this low-low price which will work with all your Windows machines.
>No need to thank us.

Doesn't even have to not work, just a little box popping up that says "this machine is connected to a network that windows can't verify the safety of" will sow the seeds.

>>57756743
Ladies...and....gentlemen! I bring to youuuuuu....
AMERICANNN EDUCATIONNNN

>>57768344
Yep. And now there's no alternatives.

Will you be renewing your Windows and Office licence now?

>>57752064

I've used Linux exclusively for ~2 years. I've had enough, and I'm switching back to Windows. Linux simply isn't worth it.

Linux distros should start collaborating instead of each proposing a broken version of a broken version of a broken version of debian.

Like, everybody get on the debian train, make Cinnamon stable as a rock, rebrand it Ubuntu so the community and software availability survive.
Ta fucking dah.
But noooo, let's roll with 8 different distros, each with its own package manager, filesystem structure, software versions, and so on...

>>57768367
>Yep. And now there's no alternatives.
For now. When 200m people get pissed off with microsoft over some new windows and demand alternatives you'll see alternatives developed right quick.

>>57768325
Alternatives are still around. We switched from Windows, MS Office and Exchange to Linux (clients use Mint), LibreOffice and Notes/Domino. It's not that hard. External mails containing MS Office files are heading straight to the spam filter, every document that's leaving our company is a PDF.
>muh destroyed layout
if you aren't completely stupid, it's easy to solve.

>>57768410
Why does any of that matter for a server OS?

Things like that level of uniformity only matter for home computers.

The people who use Linux as its intended use the same old UNIX programs that are decades old.

Grep is Grep, no matter what.

>>57768443
>External mails containing MS Office files are heading straight to the spam filter

So, you're letting all your company's customer's messages get thrown in the trash?

How's your profit margin.

Oh, you're hoping it'll pick up?

>>57768427
Those people have already paid MS their money, they can get as mad as they like. Then the next version will come out and they'll get that as well, then complain about it again.

Moaning after you've already given people what they want is pointless.

>>57768489
Thank you pajeet $.02 has been deposited to your account.

Market demand created microsoft and market demand will be its death knell, too.

>>57768489
we don't have end user customers. If they are stupid enough to send this shit, they will get a message that it's send to spam because security reasons. If they aren't able to send a PDF, they need to put up their phone and call us. And they do.
Our profit is pretty good despite the tough times in the automotive industry.

>>57768539
Microsoft controls market demand.

Look, you're not saying anything original.

I've been having this argument with people for 15 years and all that time they've been saying exactly what you are now. And I'm sure someone older would have been having it since the mid-90s.

Remember when "Microsoft will be dead after they stop supporting XP"?

>>57768596
>Remember when "Microsoft will be dead after they stop supporting XP"?
No and I don't really know why you would say that since win7 was usable.

>"This year is the end of Microsoft" says expert for 40th year running.

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>>57766429
Le upboated, my fellow plebbitor.

>>57768596
>Remember when "Microsoft will be dead after they stop supporting XP"?
nobody sane would have claimed this.
But actually MS is risking one of it's biggest sales argument - trustworthiness.
Not only about Telemetry, which is easy to handle, Outlook mobile is a much bigger pain in the ass. It's also not that you couldn't bypass - you can. But the fact that they try... is a slap right into the face of many customers - first in line companies and governments.

>>57763425
I always had less issues with plug&play devices on Linux than Windows.

>>57766984
elementaryOS has a DE similar to osx
Mint has a DE similar to windows
Both look really nice but Cinnamon is still the more mature DE and enlightenment is slightly buggy.

>>57768761
You can slap as many people in the face as you want when you're in charge.

Stop thinking that ordinary rules of business apply to Microsoft. They haven't for decades.

All this open-source stuff is a passing fad, just like every other passing fad before it that crippled anyone who didn't stick with Microsoft.

I hate it, but this is the case, whether I hate it or not.

>>57763575
Switched to Linux when W7 came out, used a shit load a different distros since then and I've never even heard of a problem like that.

>>57765192
Governments are starting to ban cryptography because people use it to avoid being spied upon.
I wouldn't be surprised if they outlawed open source OSs in the future because it allows people to avoid the botnet.

>>57768958
Plus it has encryption services built in as well as being really good at handling plaintext (which most encrypted files are).

I mean, you DO remember to store your private data as encrypted plaintext, don't you /g/?

>>57768844
>Stop thinking that ordinary rules of business apply to Microsoft. They haven't for decades.
You are right. Nobody else would have been able to sell shit as a 'solution'. But in this point you can trust me. It's leaving traces. They destabilize themselves. If they stay on this road, it's just a matter of time. Some alternative will be found and established in no time. Nobody 'needs' MS products and nobody really depends on them. It's just lazyness.

>>57752439
>sudo pacman -Syuu

What's with the capitalized s?

What's with the double u's?

Why isn't it just pacman update flash?

In my honest opinion I see it like this.

I use windows because with that I can get things done, edit video's and pictures for a website I maintain. From adobe premiere and photoshop, to gimp (I use open source programs as well). Most things are a double click away for me.

And let's be honest, microsoft office just works better most of the time, and other people don't know how to open open source document files.

There is no hassle when I try to start a game. Typing is the way I like it, no weird things I need to do that breaks my flow, like the ' é " workarounds I have to do in linux.

NOW! It's important to know that I also have a opinion on the server side.

In college they teached me only to work with Windows servers, windows server 2012 to be exact.

I'll tell you right now, it's a mess. I can't find what I want to do in the gui, and it takes so much time to configure everything.

On the other hand, I'm happily running 4 ubuntu servers that host my websites and 1 at home that is my vpn/owncloud/file server.

Also I've made several projects with raspberry pi's, that thing runs linux.
Mostly tho I use mini arduino's with relays to turn on the lights or connect/disconnect things with my phone.

Don't you ever have that feeling too that whenever you look at unused raspberry pi's and arduino's that you think to yourself: what the .. do I do with this?

Tl;Dr: In my opinion I find Windows a better desktop OS, and I find Linux a better server OS

>>57769033
>It's just lazyness.

So you're admitting that people will stay with MS no matter what?

>Some alternative will be found and established in no time

As I've said: I've heard people saying this for 15 years now. I know a broken clock is right twice a day, but it doesn't excuse saying the same thing over and over hoping for the best.

>>57752762
Has Stallman actually done anything expect bitched about not being able to use everything for free?

>>57768982
Nigga, I always encrypt my entire Linux partition.

>>57769074
>Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>57769090
>So you're admitting that people will stay with MS no matter what?
No. If they don't stop to bully their customers, they will push the lazy ones off their couches. That's not the best idea.
>I've heard people saying this for 15 years now.
I wouldn't have said this 15 years ago. In fact I'm a MCSE now for about 15 years and MS is making some big mistakes in a way and amount they never did before.

>>57760385
i love how everyone always tries to defend linux by making a point that has nothing to do with what was said

>>57768726
>using the picture of a smiley with a carat nose

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>>57769565
>using the >using the smiley with a carat nose meme
WeW
L
a
D

>>57752051
Linux isn't hard to understand, not in the slightest.

Microsoft just got their dicks in with all the OEMs and virtually everything gets shipped with Windows. Also they have office...

Attributing the popularity of windows to anything else is just stupid. Linux is no more difficult to use, most people just can't be bothered. People don't use Windows because they're 'too stupid' or anything like that. And using linux doesnt make you smarter. People use windows because they're lazy.

>>57770886
>>using the >using the >using the smiley with a carat nose meme
>WeW
>L
>a
>D
>meme
gud god

>>57766988
Nah, FreeBSD itself won't became popular. Someone will fork it and add a pretty and colorful DE and sell to normies (aka Google style) and call it a day.

>>57768410
Why? Distros are literally just collection of software thrown together

>>57752703
>>57752762
He needs to finish GNU/Hurd before that.

Why did the GNU project go with Mach? Did they really fall for the microkernel hype?

>>57771492
So he is immortal?

>>57752051
If I were filthy rich I would pay ReactOS devs to work on it 24/7. That OS seems to be the most sane solution to run old Windows programs in a more modern OS without having to deal with all the Linux bullshit.
Just add some nice DE to appeal to normies, tell them it is a special edition of Windows and they will never notice the difference.

>>57771651
>all the Linux bullshit
What kind of bullshit?

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>>57756743
>asks how this is possible
>gives a good possibility
>wrong :^)
AAAAA