Decentralized internet

>>57569730
>https://zeronet.io/
Flawed by design. Don't use.

>https://geti2p.net/en/
Looks retarded

don't be a retard

>>57569730
>decentralized internet websites
what does that even mean?

The DNS is centralized but you don't need to use it.
Wires are bundled up and pass through large nodes but this doesn't matter with the advent of cryptography.

>>57572038

You publish your website at 4v2vGEFgfdsTgfdsgER45gfs34.network.distributed

Your content/page/file gets encrypted, broken up into small encrypted pieces, and spread across everyone else who uses the network for redundancy. The hosts have no idea what they're hosting at any given time, just that they're hosting "Y GB of encrypted shards of various content pieces". The network also reshuffles everything every X minutes so what you host today isn't what you hosted yesterday

At least, that's how Maidsafe is approaching it. Looks promising although development is slow as balls.

ZeroNet is shit. I still haven't tried Freenet but word around the /cyb/ campfire is that it's better. Might not necessarily mean it's good, though.

Every so often I get really interested in this sort of thing, then I realise it's pointless because basically nobody else uses it.

>>57572403
That sounds nice, assuming you're not legally liable for all that data.

However in reality, you are liable and you'll get locked up for distributing illegal content in no time.

And essentially you just store encrypted files on the Internet. If the public has the keys than nothing changes compared to a normal http server.

>>57572523

>you are liable and you'll get locked up for distributing illegal content in no time.

Nope, there's zero precedent for this. Under your logic, I could upload Summer Blockbuster 2016 and now everyone who uses the network should be arrested.

The lack of precedent is precisely why it's interesting.

>If the public has the keys than nothing changes compared to a normal http server.

The point is that once it's up, it can not be taken down. If I upload Summer Blockbuster and then destroy the private key, that movie is going to be up forever, the file can't be modified anymore. It can't be removed, and anyone can view Summer Blockbuster whenever they want no matter how pissed the MPAA gets over it.

>>57572592
>Under your logic, I could upload Summer Blockbuster 2016 and now everyone who uses the network should be arrested.

that's exactly what would happen.
How many people you know run a TOR exit node?
That's right, nobody, because they'd get swatted in a matter of days.

(Disclaimer: this anon helped to develop I2P in its early days.)

If you're listing those three together, OP, you appear to have misunderstood what they do: they're quite different.

Zeronet and IPFS are non-anonymous, caching, decentralised, distributed datastores. I don't know much about them otherwise, I'm not interested in networks that don't provide privacy.

Freenet, for an earlier example, is a distributed forwarding/caching datastore (i.e. you mirror what you download but also what others download through you) with an anonymising overlay network later added on top, although I would not recommend its actual use in 2016, since many of its earlier users abandoned it for other areas of study so the anonymity set is a little too small for comfort, and those who are left using it may be requesting, to put it delicately, content that you would probably not like to mirror.

I2P (the Invisible Internet Protocol) is an anonymous overlay network which does not have a distributed datastore, but an .i2p eepsite (similar to Tor's .onion sites) which share the same (private!) key could in theory be hosted at more than one location, providing load-balancing? I don't know if anyone's actually done that in practice: there are many aspects of I2P's initial design which have not been fully implemented or explored, including the Hashcash, shuffle, and variable-latency parts (which may make a return in future networks using stronger mixes).

I2P is better suited to hidden services than Tor is (Tor's hidden services need a complete redesign, and the redesign is well in progress but not yet ready for use). Meanwhile Tor (the onion router) has a much larger practical anonymity set and is vastly more optimised for outproxies - if you want to browse the clearnet anonymously, you probably want Tor.

Anybody out there running TahoeLAFS, over i2p or otherwise?

https://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs

Started by zooko of mojonation fame (and who is currently shilling zcash). It seems nice, but there are apparently some scary caveats when trying to put large (>1TB) amounts of data into it.

File: 657498393.jpg (63KB, 970x1117px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 970x1117px

>>57572874
>install Freenet
>Enzo's index
>find YAFI (yet another freenode index)
>"Very offensive content will likely end up in this index so take care while browsing!"
>think it can't be that bad
>easily 40% of it is cp
>mfw
Seriously, wtf is wrong with people? I was tempted to stick around and see if I could find some actual content, but nope. More and more cp wherever I look. Uninstalled that shit as fast as.

How would it work? I mean, if i host my site how do i get a tld, won't domains just be up for grabs and then auctioned off to whoever?
How would i update the website?

>>57573447
yep, freenet is basically dead at this point. Shame the network isn't faster, then at least the cp would get washed out by less-illegal filesharing like movies and shit.

Try i2p. It's flexible enough to run bittorrent inside of it, so it's not a total wasteland. Also interactive sites like imageboards, though still a glut of "how I dl pizza" idiots to avoid.

>>57573482
the domain name can be some long random string, for example.
when you visit a site you start "seeding" it to others, at least on zeronet it works like this. see:
https://torrentfreak.com/play-p2p-impossible-shutdown-160301/

>>57573447
Well, I don't know for sure - I've not been on there in a very, very long, since the Ian Clarke early days - but that's what I've heard from people elsewhere, and anons here like >>57573447 who've tried to use it, yes.

I had criticisms of Freenet from the beginning: both its design, and the Java reference implementation. It still had interesting ideas and I appreciated those, but it hasn't been interesting or safe for a long time.

I quit that, met jrand0m and the others on IIP, brainstormed I2P with jrand0m and the others, disagreed about Java but lumped it and taught them better languages, then after about 5 years =jr left for another project based on an idea related to the Hashcash thing, which turned out pretty well, and after that left to help get my current project out of its 10 year research phase.

>>57573482
That depends.

For names: Zooko's triangle firmly applies, but there are some solutions if you don't mind long (key-based) names (.onion sites), some partial centralisation for that part, sacrificing global uniqueness (the last two are technically more or less what .i2p does), or a lot of CPU usage (proof-of-work systems like Namecoin).

For updates: given a hash-based distributed datastore, you can sign update versions and nodes can (optionally!) replace old versions with new ones. Read up on Freenet's CHKs, SSKs and USKs for an example - there are, of course, less clumsy ways!

>>57574277
Have you kept up with the cpp rewrite of i2p at all?

https://github.com/PurpleI2P/i2pd

I'm unfortunately a jvmfag, so I can't really comment on its quality. I have taken a look through the i2p (and freenet) code though, so it's hard to imagine it not being an improvement.

>Read up on Freenet's CHKs, SSKs and USKs for an example - there are, of course, less clumsy ways!

ipfs's merkledag/IPLD data structures have a lot of the same flavor as well, albeit being even more poorly documented than freenet somehow.

For someone like me who has no idea how it works, until someone all but writes and app for it, it will never become mainstream because people won't be bothered with it. If half of /g/ is in the 'I've got nothing to hide' crew, imagine the general population.

>>57574441
(disclaimer: i work on i2pd sometimes)

java i2p's code is nightmare, combine that with monotone and ... (CAN'T WAKE UP)

i2p needs some more datacenter tier nodes so we can get tor speeds but with that comes the sybil witch hunts that tor has to deal with. you can't mitigate sybil 100%, you can only slow it down and lessen the negatives effects. sometimes I wish we got millions of usa bloodmoney dollars a year too to make things go faster.

>>57575289
I've got a couple dedis with bandwidth to spare, I'll try setting them up on i2pd.

Since you appear to be knowledgeable, any opinions on the verifiable-shuffle-based mixnets coming out of research lately, e.g. riffle https://people.csail.mit.edu/devadas/pubs/riffle.pdf ? Might just be vaporware forever, but does seem an interesting area to go for higher latency filesharing, less like i2p/tor and more like freenet.

>>57572403
>The network also everything every x minutes
U wot m8

I always wondered why cant i host website from my computer. Why do I have to pay a hosting company? :( I thought that computer is a computer no matter what and where. Fuck this world i want to have things here with me no on some strange server that charges me

isnt it enought that we are paying for internet access in the first place? they should allow me to host website and not to pay for its name and what not. And that too , wtf is with paying for domain ? Who the hell owns the internet? its not fair

>>57575603
until someone proves that their shuffle works and implements something that isn't research paper tier software it will remain in the form of a fine vapor.

I was toying with making a freenet ripoff in C that provided darknet mode over ethernet, think cjdns but freenet instead of vpn.

>>57569730
That would be cool if we bypassed the internet entirely and just all got outdoor wifi antennas every 1 mile and connected them all together to make our own internet

>>57575647
You usually can host websites at home, provided your ISP isn't doing some wacky carrier-level NAT thing. All you need is a computer that can respond on port 80/443 with some html, running 24/7, plus access to your router to forward the ports. Buy a domain name or get some free dynamic DNS third-level name, point it to your home IP, done.

Not saying it's """easy""" but it's very possible and straightfoward, especially for the shitty blog/homepage most people are imagining when they say "run a website".

I've been eyeing https://www.zerotier.com/ , which looks like a neat reduction of virtual private networking without the pain of openvpn or ipsec. Weird commercial model, but the code is open source at least.

Better link for future OPs:

https://redecentralize.github.io/alternative-internet/

About half the projects listed are ded, of course. Sad!

>>57575875
does it have to be 24/7?

>>57575875
>All you need is a computer that can respond on port 80/443 with some html
Also dont understand this. Can every computer do this?

>>57576028
The computer has to be up whenever your website is also up. If you only need your website to be accessible from 9-5 in your timezone, then the serving computer has to be on from 9-5.

>>57576042
Yes, even recent windows OSs (but excluding locked smartphones like iphones, fwiw). Obviously easier to do this on linux though. If you can drop $35 on a raspberry pi (or $5 on a pi zero + $20 for dongles to hook it up to the internet), that'll do nicely as well. If you have a router that can take custom firmware (ddwrt or whatever), that works too.

If you're old enough to remember them, a home server is essentially the same as a home answering machine. It needs to connect to the outside world to answer calls and record messages (c.f. answer an HTTP GET on port 80 for your website and return the content). Home email server works the same way, if you're tinfoil/bored enough to want that.

I don't know any good tutorials offhand for this, but hopefully some other anon can chime in.

>>57576271
Awesome, thank you for your time anon. I am very interested in networking, especially basics first because I am very new to this and I know that my hardware and programmings skills are not very helpful in this unique separate area of computing.

> niggas acting like this shit would have saved what.cd
> Niggas acting like pirate bay and countless other far more high-profile sites haven't stayed up after raids

Crypto isn't going to save the next cuck.cd site from going down due to lame technologically retarded admins.

>>57576314

Read RFCs and man pages.

Ietf ftw

>>57576381
this
RFCs and man pages are the most dense archives of knowledge you will ever find.

>>57576381
>>57576390
https://www.ietf.org/rfc.html looks kind a confusing to me. Don't know where to start. It seems I need to know what to search but I am total newbie in this area

>>57576472
it's like the dictionary, you don't just open it up and read it cover to cover. it's reference material.

>>57576487
Got it. Thanks. It will surely be useful later on when I cover the basics from some books I guess.

>>57576357
This was a common topic on /g/ before what.cd got anally raped by cheese eating surrender monkeys, albeit mostly in the /cyb/ general.

>>57576357
I agree in principle. Lazy sysadmins gonna sysadmin.

I am hopeful that something /slightly/ better than the current bittorrent + some PHP-based management monstrosity (e.g. gazelle) stack for filesharing communities will coalesce in the next few years. Basically, the problem with what.cd wasn't the data, which still exists for all the people seeding it. It's the metadata that ties the whole thing together, which was in whatever db backed gazelle itself, and thus centrally deletable. If the metadata was also distributable (somehow), then in principle any fuck could pick up where the old admins left off, probably just with a different DNS name.

IPFS is interesting, because it has the most mindshare, and does have a potentially better metadata layer in the form of merkledags. I have doubts for the quality of the impl (>golang) though. There are dead design docs and issues scattered throughout their github, presumably to be worked on soon™.

I'm hoping somebody-who-isn't-me will build an ipfs workalike on top of libtorrent's mutable DHT support http://www.libtorrent.org/dht_store.html . Gives you the advantage of bittorrent's massive and stable mainline DHT, plus battle-tested P2P protocols instead of IPFS' knockoff versions.

>>57569730
I was about to make a thread about this but checked the catalogue.
I has just finished reading through
https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmNhFJjGcMPqpuYfxL62VVB9528NXqDNMFXiqN5bgFYiZ1/its-time-for-the-permanent-web.html
and
http://blog.archive.org/2015/02/11/locking-the-web-open-a-call-for-a-distributed-web/

The prospect seems rather logical in respect to how many people around the world have computers and Internet connections these days.

>>57573447
You know what happens when society opens allow bigotry and condemnation of a sexuality and some of the related sexual stress release imagery? It does under grown. If you should be asking what the fuck is wrong with anyone, you should be asking those who make this possible: you are one of them by the sounds of it.
People are so fucking stupid, I swear. The clearnet is flooded with porn by you don't seem to complain about that.

>>57577323
You don't deserve to live, like anyone like you.

>>57577195
All the talks from that summit are pretty good

http://www.decentralizedweb.net/

Cory Doctrow's is the best if you only watch one.

>>57575647
>website from my computer. Why do I have to pay a hosting company? :( I thought that computer is a computer no matter what and where. Fuck this world i want to have things here with me no on some strange server that charges me

Actually you can... you need to do look the xampp web site, and a few videos on youtube about how to open port 80 on your router, and that's the hole science!

>>57578024
xampp is so overkill (unless you _really_ want wordpress I guess). Just write some HTML in notepad and use https://caddyserver.com/ , or nginx, or even `sudo python -m SimpleHTTPServer 80` if you're feeling spicy.

>>57578066
yep but is a pretty easy solution to do that, personally i install apache2 and mysql and for separated.

interesting tip by the way about that command!