Why not join the C# master race?

What are the main differences to c++? best reasons you would choose it over c++ or c?

>>57544071
C# adopted some syntactic features of C++, but it doesn't compile and run the way C++ does. C# holds your hand more than C++ does. It doesn't allow certain expressions to be used inside of certain constructs (like an assignment inside a test condition), as some things are considered bad form, and probably a mistake.

Like with C++, what C# calls classes are an expansion on the struct concept from C, but there are no pointers in C# code, unless you explicitly go into "native" mode. I forget how this is done, but it is possible to go down to the machine level, inside a "confined" space, inside a C# program. The runtime keeps the pointers, and hands references to them to the running code. This is to enable garbage collection, which C++ doesn't have.

A consequence of this is that deallocating memory is explicitly deterministic in C++, but it's not in C#. Memory is made available for garbage collection in C# when a variable no longer refers to a value or object, but when that memory is deallocated and cleared is determined by the runtime. In C++, memory can only be deallocated explicitly, using a "delete" command.

C# has two types of variables: "value" and "object." Variables of object type are stored on the heap. Value type variables are not. Value type variables behave rather like "native" variables in C++ (types like "int"), except that they are classes, and the values that are assigned to them are classes or structs. The way you can tell the difference between the two is that value type variables can take a literal. You can say:

int a = 10;

Variables of object type have to receive an object that was brought into existence by the "new" operator, which allocates the object on the heap. This behavior will be familiar to C++ programmers.

It is possible to convert between the two types of variables, doing what's called "boxing" and "unboxing." In C++ this would be accomplished through explicit or implicit cast operators.

>>57543994
I literally don't know where to start

>>57543994
You misspelled F#

>>57543994
Loonix cucks. They are too loyal to their operating system.

>>57543994
Share us good/recent C# tutorial and free books. Your post didn't convince me to switch.

I'm learning Java, should I just switch to C#?

>>57544196
Alright that seems pretty convincing, I'll check it out

Can't run it on GNU/Linux which is what i target.

I will say MS is based for porting the entire Dot Net stack to GNU/Linux.

>>57544196
Fucking retard, we have been using smart pointers in c++ since 2011, you never ever manually deallocate memory any more. Fuck off

>>57544442
Long answer: it depends on what you want to program.
Short answer: yes.

I wouldnt mind C# it seems like a great language with a great future. But man, Visual studio is a cluster fuck. Freezes all the time. Crashes. Updates take a age to be done and usualy just fuck up shit. Dunno if its just me or something but had such bad luck with that IDE

>>57543994
MSDN a shit
that's why

>>57544834
Are you kidding? Visual Studio is the best IDE I've ever used.

Which version are you using? 2015 Professional here.

It's light-years ahead of other IDEs I used.

I came from NetBeans to Visual Studio, it was like going from a 1991 Honda Civic to a Lamborghini Diablo

>>57544847
Why?

Is C# a good language to start with?

>>57544871
Yes. I can't recommend it more for a beginner.

>>57544867
The fucking documntation for simple libraries is entirely unhelpful, I felt like a fucking retard trying to decode some of the c# libraries.

>>57544856
Well netbeans is junk but found IDEs from jetbrains much more stable responsive and better than VS. VS has some nice plugins for embeded dev though. Switched to a text editor and terminal since of late.

>>57544784
nice try, pajeet

>>57544952
According to you, which language is not "Pajeet"?

Java is pajeet, C# is pajeet?

so what do you like? Only C and C++ ?

is ruby pajeet tier too?

>>57545020
>>57544952
>inb4 haskell

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>>57543994

Is C# multi-platform capable now? This is the only reason why I heard Java was a preferred language.

>>57545133
>Is C# multi-platform capable now?
Yup.

.NET ported to Lunix

with Xamarin you can make native Android and iOS apps

with Unity cross platform games

sky is the limit

>>57545151

So is there practically no reason to learn Java anymore? Im trying to find a language to start with and C# sounds really appealing

>>57543994

C# was my favorite to code with in college, but the place I work at uses Java for everything. If I was going to build a large application though, I would look into C# first.

>>57544834
Are you trying to program on a potato?

>>57543994
How is it any different for Java?

It's literally the same shit.

>>57545207
C# is what you want.
>>57545231
>C# was my favorite to code with in college, but the place I work at uses Java for everything.
Quit your job.

I have never seen a more pajeetiful and shillforce thread like this before. And people are actually falling for the shill.

Impressive.

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>>57545304

What language do you recommend then, big guy?

>>57543994

+0.25 rupees have been deposited to your account

Why do I have to put the main function inside a class in this programming language?

>>57544429
This, show us the way.

> falling for the badnet platform

hahahah

>>57545273
> Quit your job

I can live with coding Java considering what they pay me. It's their system, not mine, and I respect their decisions even if I would choose differently.

>>57545313
Assembly

>>57545313
c# for native windows applications
python for scientific stuff and machine learning and prototyping
java for crossplatform garbage collecting stuff
c++ for strong and fast end products for everywhere
haskell for coding in nirvana.

>>57545369
Also you can easily mix C# and C++ libraries.
We often did this in former companies where absolute top over 9000 speed was required. Small modules were separated, implemented in C++ by wizards and then just PInvoked from C# so we can have all business-logic/rules engines written in plain C# and easy to change.

>>57544429
>>57545332
http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/Beginners/

>>57544474
>What is Mono?

>>57545304
join C#/CLR/.NET masterrace nao

>>57543994
Because JavaScript and wrappers like Electron are the future. Code once and it can run on anything. :^)

>>57544474
>MS ports entire Dot Net stack and core for linux
>it doesn't target linux

really activates your neurons

>>57545611
here's to hoping that Webassembly cucks JavaScript.

It's not that I don't like JS but shit has got a bit out on control lately.

But can I use it with Visual Studio on Linux? Or is there a Linux IDE that's almost as good for it?

>>57544196
You can do dirty pointers in C# if you wanted to, faggot

>>57545638
WebAssembly will cuck JS, all the major browser vendors are on board. It's just a matter of when.

C# is my first language and I'm getting solid at it. What should I learn next?

>>57545689
never tried it but there is visual studio code for GNU\Linux

>>57544319
But there isn't supposed to be many of us. Why would they care?

>>57544429
INTERACTIVE TUTORIAL FROM MS

https://www.microsoft.com/net/tutorials/csharp/getting-started/hello-world

>>57545814
LINQ and lambdas

>>57545814
Nothing.

C# is the only language you need.

Maybe Ruby if you need fast web app prototyping.

>>57545207
If you want to target Android exclusively or maybe use something like gwt and can't switch to something better.

Java 8 closes in on C# features but C# still feels nicer and is much less verbose.

Also you can move to F# and no one will notice.

>>57545857
so LINQ is like C# for databases, kinda similar to SQL?
what is lambdas like?

>>57545689
The new VS for Mac is actually a rebranded Xamarin Studio which is actually MonoDevelop with bells and whistles on top. So it wouldn't be out of the question for MS to make a Linux port.

At the very least it is technically feasible. Heck, Visual Studio Code already has intellisense and it works on Linux. It might be all you need at least to get started.

>>57545814
I'd go for C++ and Rust if you are going the systems dev way, or python and JavaScript of you are going the web dev way.

>>57545914
Linq is like SQL for C#. Personally I prefer

Thing.Select(x =>x.Foo).ToList();

over

(from Thing select x.Foo).ToList();

The later looks smaller but as things get larger the former makes more sense.

>>57545914
>what is lambdas like?
lambda is just an anonymous inline function

>>57545963
imo, sql is more natural to read. I just use Dapper

>>57545814
c++, if you want to know how shit works

Is it true that C# code will most likely be faster than C++ code unless you are an experienced C++ programmer?

>>57543994
Lisp is the most powerful programming language.

Lisp is the best language for its combination of richness and elegance, conciseness and expressiveness.

You can code in an almost pure functional style. You can code in a pure, very expressive oop style with much richer constructs than java, such as package level visibility.

You can code in a statically typed way.
You can code using dynamic types.
You can combine all the above as you find your own style.

All that plus linq, async, await, and what many people consider the world's best IDE (Emacs).

It's a joyous, gorgeous language and i wish it was acceptable here in silicon valley.

I am a veteran of 20+ years from Pascal, C, COBOL etc. I have literally coded in all mainstream and some obscure languages.

I just think Lisp and Emacs is a huge force in the industry that is often ignored.

I recently had to update an app in Objective-C. It felt like chopping a tree with a fork.

Lisp is great. Period.

>>57546002
It depends, does it have a jit compiler? Jit can make managed languages faster under certain conditions.

gcc et al are getting smarter too so if there's a difference now, it might not be that way next year.

Ultimately, if you don't know already what language to use depending on speed, then you probably don't need C++ speed and C# is good enough.

>>57545207
Nah. Java has all of the Apache ecosystem (Spark, Hadoop, etc.) and it makes it very easy to build enterprise applications that handle huge amounts of data.

>>57545963
Awesome, thanks. Any simple projects you can think of to get started with?

To learn C# I've been making mostly web apps for lots of random purposes, and also console apps to make IRC and Discord bots. It's more fun for me usually when I'm working on something I actually want, so creativity spurs the curiosity and learning.

>>57546043
Can I write iOS + Android apps with a single codebase in lisp?

Should I learn Lisp or F#?

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>>57543994
>C#
>masterrace of anything but taping your pecker into your bunghole
thread hidden

>>57546074
Well, it gets tricky because of the sheer quantity of options you have.

You could try something like this: https://wukix.com/mocl.

Or you could do this:
http://www.lambdanative.org

Or you could do this:
http://clojure-android.info

Or you could do this:
http://cljsrn.org

There are a lot of options out there. Dive in!

>>57546073
I've used it for writing enterprise WPF apps. I'm excited that the WPF knowledge I have can be translated into Xamarin Forms and build Android apps. So maybe try those. Building GUIs, specially mobile, will make you get into async programming and observer patterns.

>>57546143
awesome, thanks for the ideas m8

cheers

>>57546108
Ok. Which of those do you think won't be dead in 5 years?

>>57546043
>DUDE PARENTHESES LMAO

Do I have to install Windows? And can it compile more than Windows programs?

I use Visual Studio simply because of C#. I could use other IDEs for C# but Visual Studio understands the language completely.

>>57546167
LambdaNative is actually being used, ClojureScript + React Native is also a safe bet just because neither ClojureScript nor React Native are going anywhere. Both these toolkits are pretty safe since they run on top of existing tools; i.e. all the individual components will continue to be maintained well into the future.

I don't know much about mocl, that is probably the riskiest among these, and the least mature.

>>57546183
No and Yes.

Mostly web though.

>>57544834
I didn't used to be this way. VS 2013 was actually quite solid. VS 2015 is complete cancer though. I get crashes almost daily on both my computers and they are both very powerful 16GB RAM meme machines.

Maybe M$ shouldn't have fired their entire fucking QA department.


All that being said, C# as a language, is very based imo.

>>57546167
>>57546198
Also, Lambda Native can produce executables for macOS, Linux, Windows, android, iOS...

Lisp masterrace.

>>57546205
I have never received a crash with VS2015

Why does Visual Studio take like 10 fucking GB. And is the Community Edition sufficient? I could also download the Ultimate Edition from my University.

>>57546279
Neither have I. But sometimes things don't work and restarting it 2 or 3 times makes it work. It's retarded but works and I don't know why and it triggers me.

>>57546356
Community is good enough for me. No idea what the pro or ult editions have that it doesn't. Probably Azure and SqlServer stuff.

It is quite heavy. Back in the VisualStudio 6.0 days the IDE would be a single CD and MSDN was the other 4. It is crazy.

>>57546356
community is fine, here's the feature comparison:

https://www.visualstudio.com/vs/compare/

>>57546279
the project I'm working on is pretty big, which probably contributes to the problem. I never had issues with the same project in 2013 though, so I'm not sure what changed.

>>57546356
Not sure why, but it's worth it. By far the best IDE if you are okay with nonfree MS botnet

>>57546398
>>57546425
>>57546431
Is it true that you have to pay some kind of fee if you're developing commercial software with VS?

>>57546455
Nope.

>>57546455
Yes, as always with microsoft shits.

>>57544219
mva.microsoft.com/en-US/training-courses/c-fundamentals-for-absolute-beginners-16169

>>57546455
There used to be VSExpress which forbid to use it in commercial applications but who could tell? It's the same compiler underneath.

But now community has gone away with that crap.

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>>57546455
no, it's free for commercial or non-commercial uses.

>>57543994
i do c#. its very constrained in many ways. templating will never match typedefs. lack of libs suck ass. direct interop with c/c++ would be a god send. static extensions needed would benefit functional.
we still like in a world where if it aint c/c++ it sucks ass, if its in c/c++ it sucks ass.

>>57546461
>>57546495
mashalla

>>57543994
>It's like java but """better""" (not really)
kek

>>57546958
surely you're not implying that Java is any good by almost any standard.

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ITT: pic related

>>57546981
surely you're not implying that C# and/or .net are any good by almost any standard.

>>57546991
I do enjoy C# but not as much as Python or C, but I wasn't implying that actually. I'll always shit on Java any chance I get though.

>>57543994
Still doesn't have good enough support for functional programming. F# is okay, but not as well supported as C# (which is the only thing it has going for it).

I'm not a part of any programming-centric job, so I'm not limited to choosing any language by popularity or fungibility of developers, so I just stick to Lisp.

If I did have to pick one of the "big 3" languages, I think I would pick C# though. Lambdas are good, LINQ is good, having a foreach without having to manually write iterators is good. Overall, much better than Java. Seems like less of a headache than C++.

What's a good resource for an experienced programmer who's never used C#/Java/C++ before? I've been programming for years but only ever really done functional and some very, very light OOP for GUI's.

>>57543994
>Why not join the C# master race?
1. There are fewer libraries for .NET Core than for the JVM.
2. Still no native compilation on Linux. C#/F# could replace Go once it works.
3. ASP.NET Core does seem too mature yet.
>C# is the most powerful programming language.
Fuck no, though it is pretty good.

>>57545020
>which language is not "Pajeet"?
Coq.

>>57545814
>What should I learn next?
Learn *nix shell scripting. If you use Windows, learn a little PowerShell, too. Learn Awk for data manipulation. After that, F#.

>>57546061
This.
I'm doing some heavy work in Spark and I had to learn Scala for it, after being used to C# for so long it was painful, and I'm quite decent in Java

.Net Core is top comfy, built a couple of microservices on top of it and it was a breeze

>>57545857
This too, it gives you tons of possibilities
>>57545914
Not only DBs but collections in general, you can do tons of stuff in a very simple way.
Funny enough some of the easier stuff (like left joins) in LINQ has some akwardness for a beginner, but it kinda make sense.

>>57547472
>There are fewer libraries for .NET Core than for the JVM.
Pretty much this. I'd enjoy using C# more often, but my work centers around JVM because of the inexhaustible supply of libraries. MS can throw all the money in the world at C# and .NET to make it comfy, and they did a good job of this already, but they can't really make up for the billion libraries JVM has handy. Or at least I don't see an efficient way that they could.

Inertia is a bitch.

>>57547719
>>57547472
>libraries
IKVM.NET looks very interesting in that regard. Is it good enough to use in production?

>>57544442
depends on industry. Lots of investment banks use Java. Indeed.com uses Java.

>>57546983
I do work for pajeet so it's even worse.

>>57543994
>C# is the most powerful programming language.
l o l

>>57547870
Java ecosystem > C# ecosystem
C# language > Java language

>>57547967
/thread

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>>57543994
>C# is the most powerful programming language.
Sorry lad, but C still exists.

Hard to justify building something new in C# when Swift exists. Holy shit that's a good language. I think adoption will skyrocket when it gets solid Windows support and Apple stops moving the goalposts.

>>57548040
>when it gets solid Windows support
lol

>>57546356
The upcoming 2017 version seems like it'll be trimmed down and installable in small modules. Something like 500mbs for the base version I hear.

The usual versions are huge because they jam in a billion bloated features like Windows Phone SDK and shit like that.

>>57544319
Ever heard of Mono or .NET Core?

>>57547344
bumping for this, I'm interested in C#

>>57544871
Kinda silly question. Start with the language you want to do, its all "beginner friendly" with the right resources.
Using C# for about 3 years not including college, it's a reasonable primary.

>>57543994
>C# is the most powerful programming language.

(((((((You))))))) there it is, now leave.

C# or Python 3?

>programming in only one language or joining some sort of cult

This is a clear sign that you do not program well, anon.

>tfw just got a job as a junior c# developer

Am I among the elite now?

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/g/, what are some good projects that I can do in a week using XML/Json, web services, any APIs in C#. It's for our XML class final project..

>>57543994
Because VS is shit and becomes even worse with each update.
Yes, I choose language by IDE, because it's mostly hobby for me.

>>57544834

I'm working in VS since 2010. I can agree with long update times but I've never got any crashes. As for hang ups : if you're working on a huge solution and you have a potato instead of a PC thats your problem not IDE'S...

>>57546073
This is the course that got me interested in C#. The course was originally taught using XNA but it has since switched over to monogame. The professor is knows his shit and he also supplies a lot of resources for win, mac and Linux. It won't make you a pro but it's a great introductory course to C#
https://www.coursera.org/learn/game-programming

>>57544856
Using it every days for my courses, Man i miss vim without a single plugin. I don't have to do 10k lines per day, ineed to learn the language. but unit test not working despitecopy pasting ms code examples ... Is it even real? Ctrlz to cancel a winform event coz its too hard to hack something to purge the event from the event handler... Cmon. Iam a linux shrill, but as much i think it's an overzealous language, it'd be fine if it was not for the fucking ide

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>>57543994
>proprietary Java that works well only on wangblows with 10gb wangblows-only IDE, has way less libraries, and way worse ecosystem than JVM in general
If you develop windows-only desktop applications then it's fine i guess.