Why We Need a Speed Limit for the Internet

>The increasing energy consumption of the internet is not so much due to a growing amount of people using the network, as one would assume. Rather, it's caused by a growing energy consumption per internet user.
>The network's data traffic rises much faster than the number of internet users (45% versus 6-7% annually).
>There's two main reasons for this. The first is the evolution towards portable computing devices and wireless internet access. The second is the increasing bit rate of the accessed content, mainly caused by the digitalization of TV and the popularity of video streaming.

In other words, fucking normies, phoneposters and gaymers.

>>57251051
I doubt mailing DVDs around was more efficient than streaming

>>57251051
Greens never have any solution other than reducing everyone's standard of living.

Right now in Washington state environmental groups are campaigning against a carbon tax. Yep, they're fighting a ballot initiative to tax CO2 emissions. Why? Because it's revenue-neutral, the proceeds will be used to cut sales and business taxes. They don't like this and want the tax to be added on top of existing ones.

>>57251248
Your download speed is 30 kb/s
A decent quality DVD is typically 1.7 gb-3.5 gb

I like to round things, so that'd take about 6 days to download the 1.7 gb movie file.

Or you can mail it and get it in 2-3 days.

Not to mention if you're constantly downloading at your dl speed's capacity, you can hardly do jack shit online.

It just makes sense to mail a DVD at the time.

>>57251051
someone was actually paid to write this

>every website embeds shitloads of digital media that i don't want to see or hear
>now i'm being told that my internet connection needs traffic shaping because this constant media assault isn't environmentalist
please, god, please. please pop the media bubble. i want los angeles to sink into a hole in the ground

>>57251284
I don't think having slower internet is comparable to shivering in the cold or starving.

If your "standard of living" is based on watching HD youtube videos on your phone you've got a pretty fucked up view of "living" in the first place.

>>57251300
What are you even talking about? The point is that the article doesn't take into account the energy that was used by what high-speed downloads replace. I don't think it takes more energy to for a modern netflix user to stream a movie than to pack and ship the physical product, or to drive to the video store.

>>57251349
who is it for them to decide how fast the network should be? Or to tell me how much bandwidth I ought to be able to use?

You want to cure global warming by shutting down the Internet?

Actually if you wanted to talk crazy, a nuke detonated in the atmosphere would kill every electronic for hundreds of miles. Shutting down the power grid, thus reducing our energy consumption and CO2 emissions to zero.

If we detonate a nuke on soil, the dust cloud would lower the global temperature a few degrees thus preventing global warming. Isn't it ironic that the quickest way to save the planet is to do what everybody fears the most?

I know that's crazy talk, but it's a real working solution and you gotta wonder if some other nation would be that crazy. In fact just a few days ago Russia announced a nuke that would turn Texas into a crater. In short, FUCK THE FUCKING PROBLEM BEFORE WW3 breaks out!

>>57251300
Not to mention that it's very likely that your DVD will go in a van that will be going near you anyway because that's how delivery routes work. It will also have, at the outset, many other things in the back of it.

>>57251381
>drive to the video store

You could walk, American.

>>57251410
America is a big country we can't just have trains and sidewalks that lead right into any given cuckshed from your front door

There's already a speed limit of 1 gbits for personal use.

>>57251389
>argues that the internet should be slower
>this is interpreted as YOU WANNA BLOW THE ENTIRE WORLD UP by autists

Fucking hell.

>>57251438
he took the bait

>>57251423
>America is a big country

Yes. That is true.

Having a big country doesn't mean you have to have a 20 mile distance between everything.

>>57251315
I want to see it go ridin'
Watch you flush it all away

>How much energy does the internet consume? Due to the complexity of the network and its fast-changing nature, nobody really knows

>But it uses too much anyway, because we said so

Literally retarded

>>57251471
It cites a 2012 study that reached a conclusion, then they used that study's projection to discuss the current state.

>>57251465
you say that as if there's some central planning department that decrees where people may choose to live and build buildings

there is not. The country is spread out because people want it that way. The people who want to live in a tight-packed urban center can, you'll find them in NYC. Fortunately they don't get to dictate to everyone else that they must live the same way.

>>57251465
Absolutely but by and far people don't live within walking distance of places of business, especially video stores

This is the most retarded bullshit I've read in my entire life. Words alone cannot express just how much I am in awe at the sheer volume of stupidity flowing from the words above. It's almost as if someone took a classroom full of deaf, blind, autistic, inbred water heads who are missing a few chromosomes and decided to sit them down in front of old, almost completely dry typewriters with most of the keys tilted at odd angles and just let them have a go at trying to hash out whatever lack of a thought they have left before it slithers out their nose and lands on the floor.

>>57251484
which is still absolutely minimal in the energy it consumes.
The consumer energy market is a small morsel compared to business. Work on that shit, and don't go all 1984 on my ass to save money on something with so little elasticity.

>>57251465
>Having a big country doesn't mean you have to have a 20 mile distance between everything
It does. Almost 3/4 of America is rural country with a 15-20 minute drive to the nearest city. That city might not even have a video store. It's not realistic for many people to walk everywhere.

>>57251484
>>57251541
>HFT and microwave transmitters running at capacity 24/7
>your phone is too fast it's killin da chilluns

>>57251557
40 mile drive one way for qdoba here. Fuck kansas

>>57251051
>Wireless.

Got your problem right here.

>>57251541
I'm pretty sure that all the emails in the world for a year barely match Youtube on any single day.

Why does /g/ care about bloated software but not bloated internet?

>>57251645
Because debloated internet means no 4K rips of Chinese sick cartoons.

>>57251645
who fucking said?
Smaller news webpages will net more energy savings from not running my processor into the ground than the actual internet infrastructure cost.
Attack them, not the ISPs.

>>57251676
4k rips of mongolian national dances don't occupy much traffic when encoded in HEVC, but bloated javascript websites with 15 botnets per domain do.

>>57251206
>>57251645
>>57251676

if it were up to /g/ents we would all be using text-only japanese imageboards ,and download 4k 60fps upscaled anime with flac audio.

>>57251749
>text-only imageboards

>>57251759
>implying you can't uuencode images and paste them into messages

Best part, internet would work just fine even without a power grid.

Baity piece written by somebody who has the understanding of networks on the level 'series of tubes'

In terms of CO2 emissions, it's consumer devices manufacturing and maybe datacenters hosting irrelevant normie shit nobody cares about.

But fucking Internet? how can those poor l3 switches cause global warming?

>>57251759
i was being ironic, glad you got that anon!

File: 1458516150483.png (642KB, 552x543px) Image search: [Google]

642KB, 552x543px

>>57251759

>>57251051
Communist bootlicker.

>>57252017
not even that, just an idiot.

>>57251300
>not using torrents in professional and personal applications outside of piracy.

>>57252017
>against wasting resources on trivial nonsense

If he was talking about business he'd be considered a shrewd capitalist.

>>57252131
And therein is the simple difference between socialism and capitalism.

Some people do what they think is best for themselves or their domain.

Some people try to force everyone to do what they think is best for themselves and everyone else's domain.

>>57251349

You're a fucking idiot mate.

If any convenience is reduced for you, your standard of living has gone down, no matter how miniscule.

>>57252205
People wont make the correct decision through choice.

We simply can not go on polluting and using resources as we have been.

The article hit the nail on the head when it said: "There are no limits to growth when it comes to the internet, except for the energy supply itself."

Peak Oil is not going to be fun, and that's just a single resource of many with an uncertain future.

I wish some carrier would initiate an unlimited data plan capped at about 5 Mbps for $30 a month and just fucking be done with it. I don't give a fuck about faster speeds as that's enough to do anything necessary using a smartphone in today's world, stream 1080p content and probably even 4K once HEVC kicks in (yes I have a device with a 2560x1440 display on it and it has a Snapdragon 820 so it can do HEVC decoding in hardware, even 10-bit).

Things would just work so much better for everyone if there was a simple plan like this, it would balance everything out so well in terms of bandwidth, nobody being able to leech network resources for extended periods, no complaints from consumers because they'd get consistent speeds without problems, and so on.

But of course because this idea makes perfect sense is precisely the reason it'll never be put into action.

>common sense just isn't
>think about it
>stupid fucking people will be the death of us all

>>57252260
Not true.

You could lose your car, and have an increased standard of living by not getting fat, and dying of a heart attack after losing a leg to diabetes.

I don't get the issue, ISP's have introduced data caps already. The market will decide when we need to start data rationing. Fuck off back to /pol/ with your central planning horse shit.

File: 1477403000203.jpg (171KB, 1520x1604px) Image search: [Google]

171KB, 1520x1604px

>>57252300
We were supposed to hit peak oil years ago.

Since then, we've figured out that we have about five times the amounts of oil reserves we thought we had in the US alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJmL9hRrpIQ

>>57252319
The car hasn't reduced your standard of living in that situation, your decisions have.

>>57252300
For other types of pollution, that falls into the confines of endangering other people, so obviously things like dumping waste into rivers is a no-go.

OP's whining about energy use is mostly from coal power, which is inconsequential in terms of environmental standards.

>>57252374
>pumping billions of tonnes of greenhouse gasses into the air doesn't effect anyone

Anon...

>>57252413
Go look up how much volcanoes pump into the air compared to humans.

>>57252347
Isn't the whole point of Peak Oil that we don't know when we'll hit it, except when looking back?

Besides, is it really a viable solution for the future to just mine the world dry?

>>57252424
I know how much volcanoes pump out, and no one would make the argument that there's no effect from that.

Besides, it's not comparable because we have no control over volcano eruptions, while we do have control over emissions.

>>57252425
oil rig outputs are meticulously watched and projected. we should know when a peak is our last.

>>57252425
For now, sure. We've created all of the advances on the energy sources we have now through coal and oil. We're not done.

>>57252459
OK, what is the point when we'll throw off coal and oil like we did the water wheel? Do we have the resources to last that long? How sure are you, and should we risk it? Just continue using more and more and wait for someone to just provide the answer?

>>57252448
>should

They can't even predict tomorrow's weather right, what makes you trust these predictions?

>>57252498
they can predict tomorrow's weather with good certainty. There are upper and lower bounds.
Don't be a faggot and act like the world is just waiting for you to save it.

>>57252445
Next up, prove that CO2 emissions affect global temperature on a linear scale.

>>57252498
When it becomes economically viable.

Right now the only reason solar even comes close is because everyone's dicks get hard over 'moral' energy and it's subsidized. Where I live, building a wind turbine nets you about $30k in taxpayer money.

>>57252300
What is this peak oil nonsense? You realize we're moving to shale oil very soon. Go look at a map of the US highlighting all the shale we got. God bless innovation, and we already invaded this country too so we don't gotta fight. Have fun with Vlad eurofags.

File: 1475762812858.png (220KB, 640x455px) Image search: [Google]

220KB, 640x455px

>>57252413

>>57252546
Wind is a meme.
Solar panels are actually getting much cheaper lately, and without subsidies to boot. It's not quite there for profit for the average consumer over a 20 year period, but it's getting there fast.

File: PeakOil.jpg (20KB, 620x286px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 620x286px

>>57252425
>Isn't the whole point of Peak Oil that we don't know when we'll hit it, except when looking back?

No.
Peak oil predicts a very GRADUAL decline in CONVENTIONAL oil production.

It's hard to say when exactly peak production is becasue it's a plateau rather than a sudden change.

And it has to be stressed that non-conventional oil like shale oil isn't part of "peak oil".
It's what's one of the things that will replace conventional oil production.

>>57252579
Which is why SolarCity's stock price has gone to shit.

>>57251315

This

Instead of campaigning to cuck the user (that is us) they should campaign to debloat the internet. All corporations that just steal my bandwidth with out my consent should be taxed instead.

>>57252546
>When it becomes economically viable.

Which is never because those who decide what is economically viable have money in fossil fuels.

>>57251284

Instead of creating scapegoats the greens should fight against the population problem instead.

File: temps.png (1MB, 495x10000px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 495x10000px

>>57252577
faggot

>>57252597
>>57252590
>I fucked up buying stock in a poorly run business so the whole technology is shit

>>57252579
Solar is a very long way from being economically viable because it only produces energy during the day when you don't need it at home.

So you'll need huge battery banks to store all that electricity, which is more expensive than the panels themselves.

>>57252602
>>57251315
>script
>at MOST 100kb
>HD video
>at MINIMUM 200MB

But I'm sure javascript is to blame.

>>57252655
Selling power to the grid and then buying it back at night is not that terrible of a solution for individuals.
On top of that, there are models where mirrors just power a molten salt reaction to produce steam.

>>57252644
>thousands of years vs millions of years
Why is yours so much tinier than mine?

>>57252653
You'd think they'd be able to make free energy work, wouldn't you?

>>57252682
>4 degrees colder and half of NA is covered in a mile of ice
>my chart is better because it shows crap data for a longer period
'no'

>>57251385
Human beings able to campaings for and against laws, just like you.
>Other human beings should have no effect on my life
That fight was lost thousands of years ago.

>>57252705
Why can't you pin down a correlation between CO2 and global temperature?

The ice caps were supposed to have melted by now, by the way.

>>57251051
>tl;dr:we must reduce our usage of technology because green energy is shit

>>57252679
>Selling power to the grid and then buying it back at night is not that terrible of a solution for individuals.

Except half the cost of electricity is transport over the grid.
So you'd have have generate 3 times as much as you consume.

In some countries the government subsidizes the transport costs, but that's not sustainable in the end.

>>57252728
The concept was oversold to shit, but it's still there.
There is a correlation, you're full of shit.

>>57252729
You could spend all day browsing text files on a Pi (or other low-powered computer like it) and use a fraction of the resources across the various networks you got them from compared to even 5 minutes on Netflix or Youtube.

Much as it might upset everyone what we need isn't more, but better, and that includes habits and entertainment.

>>57252770
Point it out here, please.
>>57252577

Climate scientists aren't even sure if CO2 levels function on a linear or logarithmic scale, meaning that the more CO2 there is in the air, the more other forces of nature respond to remove it.

>>57252799
But that shouldn't be treated as a green light.

>>57252818
Nor a red light. So quit whining and trying to pass laws until you know for sure.

Until then, humankind has experienced the greatest, fastest industrial and technological growth it ever has under coal and oil and will continue to do so for many years.

File: 1474651082173.jpg (40KB, 597x652px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 597x652px

>>57251051
>3,000TWh energy used only by the internet

That's fucking badass, why are greens so gay and hate high living standards? The more energy we use, the better our standard of living becomes. That's a good thing.

We need more energy, not less, burn all the damn coal, split all the uranium, cover the whole earth in solar panels

>>57252839
Isn't the flaw with "knowing for sure" that it has already happened, or is too late to stop from happening?

>ever has under coal and oil and will continue to do so for as long as we have oil and coal.

Fixed, not for accuracy but rather for honesty.

>>57252845
>high living standards

Such a subjective concept. Epicurus wouldn't consider anywhere in the west having anything other than widespread and near-total slavery.

And also you should stop basing your personal concept of "high living standards" on how rich you make people already far richer than you'll ever be.

>>57252920
>Epicurus
Who gives a shit?

>stop basing your personal concept of "high living standards" on how rich you make people already far richer than you'll ever be.
Are you saying that because of the nature of capitalism, nobody but the top 1% can ever have "high living standards"?
Would you like to visit 1980's Yugoslavia and say that?

>>57252584
Yeah yeah we were supposed to have peak oil since 30 years, nothing happened, oil prices went down the tubes because there's so much of it. No one gives a shit, remove additional taxes on it, let people buy a gallon for less than a dollar, burn it all.

>>57252953
>nothing happened

EXACTLY, just like peak oil predicted.

>>57252920
People had the highest living standards during the end of the last century, when energy was plentiful. People got out of high school and could buy a house, buy a car. Today that's much harder, but still much better than any other time during history. Cheap energy is imperative for the success of a society. Everyone benefits from it.

>>57252656
>at most 100kb

I bet you have never used Facebook, or those """"""modern""""""" webpages. Also, he didn't mean only scripts, but unoptimized images and videos, for example.

>>57252967
>moving goal posts

Green shitheads are the worst. The oil price fucking crashed, because, again, there's so much of it being taken out of the ground, and because every company knows there is still so much of it underground that they are better off selling it even just for that low price.

There's no peak oil. You were lied to. We will keep finding more of it, until we don't even need it as much anymore, because we find better things.

>>57252953
How about "keep it for a rainy day"?

>>57252949
You're a fucking idiot. The same people that sold you on trivial bullshit improving your "standard of living" are the ones making that trivial bullshit.

>>57252987
>Cheap energy is imperative for the success of a society.

Wait, I thought it was education? Surely having an intelligent population is more important than morons with low power bills?

And no, people don't use their technology for eduction (largely). If they did then we'd all be browsing Gophernet.

>>57253024
>We will keep finding more of it, until we don't even need it as much anymore, because we find better things.

You hope.

What if we don't? Consider that more than not at all.

And even if we do, what if it's not viable to be widespread? What if, for example, one country has this technology that can power the entire world forever. It's the energy version of the space elevator single-place podium.

>>57252949
> Would you like to visit 1980's Yugoslavia and say that?
USA bombed Yugoslavia to not let them join to the top 1%.

>>57251206
You autistic faggot

>>57253104
Well it's not colleges and universities trading papers and reports, is it?

And it's not pure-text discussions.

>>57253024
Oil is not an infinite resource.
This boom that fracking created will end eventually as well.

The transition away from oil has already begun anyways, high or low prices it is coming.

>>57253027
Yes, you're right, I'm the fucking idiot for enjoy all my modern conveniences, tremendous healthcare, overabundance of food, clean safe home, and disposable income to buy any trinket I so desire.
Such a terrible standard of living based around the success of the market. How awful for me that I now realize none of this is good.

Fuckwad.

>>57253027
>How about "keep it for a rainy day"?

How about no. Technology keeps advancing, whenever that rainy day comes, it might not even be as useful as it is now. We would have just wasted its potential.

Imagine things like spices, pepper, porcelain. Just a few hundred years ago, that shit cost as much as gold. Now a stupid fuck likes you comes around and says "Hey, let's not eat that. Let's store it for a rainy day". And that day never comes. And that shit keeps getting more plentiful. And alternatives keep appearing. And in the end it isn't worth anything. Great, you just wasted all it's potential, because you didn't use it when it was the most useful.

What if we develop asteroid mining in 30 years? Or methane mining in the ocean? All that oil will lose a lot of value, because now there's alternatives.

You don't keep things for rainy days, unless you are 100% those days will arrive sooner rather than later. There are no rainy days in sight for us.

>Wait, I thought it was education? Surely having an intelligent population is more important than morons with low power bills?

Morons with cheap energy bills, cheap goods have a lot of free time. A lot of free time leads to some people educating themselves. Those people then teach other people.

How do you think we developed civilization? Humans perfected hunting and gathering until we had so much free time, we were simply bored. So people started fucking around with sticks and stones and inventing how to do useful things with it. Did you ever try starting a fire? You would really need a lot of time to discover this on accident.

With cheap energy, people have more time to do things that aren't immediately productive for society, but they rather fuck around with stuff. Sometimes useful things come from that. That's how we became what we are today. Cheap energy is the most important thing for humanity, no cheap energy means no technological advancement.

>>57253024
How am I green?
Fuck the climate I don't give a shit.

You just don't understand what peak oil is and just ASSUME it's some kind of "green" doomsday thinking when it's just what the OIL INDUSTRY agrees is a GRADUAL transition towards SHALE OIL.

SHALE OIL.
GRADUAL TRANSITION.
get it now, my IQ<80 friend?

>>57252656
>50 MB scripts
>and 300 MB autoplaying videos
Surely not a problem.

>>57253144
>“A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.”

Or in your case, when they burn down the entire first and throw the seeds into the trash.

>>57253149
Do you have insurance. You better not, or you're a hypocrite.

>All that oil will lose a lot of value, because now there's alternatives.

So? Why does that matter to you?

And besides, necessity is what breeds invention. We didn't discover fire because we were bored, we discovered it because we were fucking cold.

All the while energy is cheap there will never be an alternative, because what we have now is far too easy (for the consumer).

>>57251206
Fuck off, fag

>>57253224
That doesn't happen.

>>57253172
That's a revisionist understanding of Peak Oil. Hubbert's entire fear was that there would be no alternative, that's why he sacrificed his career to voice it.

ICE will be for poor people

The developed world will driving around in electric cars.

Maybe in the future car ownership won't be a big thing anymore.

>>57253292
It's only really a thing in America because of the fucking hell-on-earth of sprawl.

>>57253292
>ICE will be for poor people

Of which there is MANY even in developed countries. Reminder that many places in America are literally still on dial-up.

So this doesn't solve anything.

>>57253292
Electric cars are for castrated nu-males. As is not having a car at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lKq1fGtXFM

This is you. Fucking cuck.

>>57251051
this is fucking retarded
>lets slow down your stream speeds to save electricity

>>57253404
Lower levels of data handling requires less power.

That's why people can host 1200-baud BBSs on solar powered underclocked raspberry pis.

>>57251051
Just get to the part where you shill against net neutrality and are pro ISP raping.

>>57253341
>Of which there is MANY even in developed countries. Reminder that many places in America are literally still on dial-up.

Let us not compare infrastructure that doesn't exist in some places (broadband) to something that exists almost everywhere in the country like electricity.

We do not need a speed limit. Everyone should have a right to use as much resources as they can afford. If I have money, and someone else has electricity/bandwidth, no one should have the right to say that we cannot make this trade.

>>57253433
> That's why people can host 1200-baud BBSs on solar powered underclocked raspberry pis.
Never heard of those, could you provide some link?

File: solarpi.png (9KB, 639x290px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 639x290px

>>57253644
telnet in to bbs.solarpi.net

>>57254169
Thanks