X.Org holds Linux back

>>57037857
people talked about how old and busted init scripts were all the time. and how we needed a modern replacement for this annoying junk
then we got systemd

>>57037907
except the difference between SystemD and Wayland is, Wayland is following the Unix way, isn't monolithic giant bloated garbage and doesn't sabotage Linux as a whole

File: tiresome.png (643KB, 1022x731px) Image search: [Google]

643KB, 1022x731px

>>57037857
> gaymes

XRender OpenGL

They are all about the same across all platforms

Some bad MESA versions but that does not last.

>OP you are a confirmed faggot

>>57037936
it's not even video games it's really just screen tearing man

X11 is some of the most overwrought shit

>>57037907
>>then we got systemd

You mean dramatically improved boot times, fantastically simple method of running executables as a service, improved logging, performance increases across the board, and more?

Can systemd take over the window server next? It would probably a dramatic improvement.

>>57037907
SystemD confirms CS and Software Engineering has regressed.

>I blame Java and Microsoft

>>57037960
>OP here
no, don't compare that garbage SystemD to the glory that is Wayland, OpenRC is the best modern replacement for Init

File: youdontknowwhatyouaretalkingabout.jpg (18KB, 300x236px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 300x236px

>>57037960
You don't know what you are talking about.

>>57037988
>duo digits :^)

>>57037972
Wayland is just RedHat taking the ball and going home.

>>57037857
You know they're replacing it, right?

File: huey.jpg (1MB, 2560x1440px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2560x1440px

>>57037997
dubs never lie

>>57038009
Redhat has no contributions to the creation of Wayland whatsoever, 0% of it was written by Redhat employees and Redhat still uses X on both of their OS's (Fedora and RHEL)

so much FUD ITT

>>57037857
OP, Wayland has no games it emulates Xorg thats why its slow.

Also you are probably using AMD drivers which are shitty.

Switch to NVidia and Xorg and use any HL2 based engine game like DOTA 2.

Dear OP.
Stupid fanboys like you who post the same over and over again don't help.
Now stop being a faggot.
Sincerely, anon.

>>57038044
Intel
only XWayland imitates X and Wayland does have some games running natively on it, like SuperTux Kart(freetard autism the game but it's A game and it runs best on Wayland on Linux)

>>57038054
good tech projects need cheerleaders tho

>>57038056
noob question here. why would the display server be anything other than overhead? doesn't the vidya communicate directly with OpenGL/Vulkan?

>>57037857
we have fucking wayland, you even mentioned that
that's the x replacement

>>57038044
>switch to Xorg
>Xorg fucking
>E V E R
>V
>E
>R

>>57038073
minimal overhead*
>>57038076
ya so it pretty much boils down to distros/de/wm being reluctant to adopt a new radically progressive project (though they mostly jumped on systemd, which can be said to be both regressive and progressive I guess) that isn't entirely finished/polished (just like systemd when it was taking linux by storm).
>>57038083
the tripfig is baiting desu, watch out he's a real tricky one

>>57037919
Monothlithic? You can substitute every module except udev which is moving to the kernel.

File: 1459113767901.png (2MB, 514x989px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 514x989px

>>57037857
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.

>>57038122
hi dubs, I read an argument once that said that systemd was really monolithic, despite its claims to the contrary :^)

>>57038109
Wayland will be default in the next Fedora release (25), which is next month.

This can be compared to the systemd integration as seen here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#Adoption_and_reception
So we're likely a couple years away from wayland being default in major distributions.

And distros did not jump on systemd any faster. Many of them had systemd in their repos for over a year before it became default, as seen in that link I provided.

>>57037936
>>57037957
It's not MESA, it's the proprietary GPU drivers. I wish I could get my Nvidia GTX 750 ti to display as beautifully as my built in Haswell GPU.

>>57038143
I'm terribly sorry for interjecting another moment, but what I just told you is GNU/Linux is, in fact, just Linux, or as I've just now taken to calling it, Just Linux. Linux apparently does happen to be a whole operating system unto itself and comprises a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Most computer users who run the entire Linux system every day already realize it. Through a peculiar turn of events, I was misled into calling the system "GNU/Linux", and until now, I was unaware that it is basically the Linux system, developed by the Linux project.

There really isn't a GNU/Linux, and I really wasn't using it; it is an extraneous misrepresentation of the system that's being used. Linux is the operating system: the entire system made useful by its included corelibs, shell utilities, and other vital system components. The kernel is already an integral part of the Linux operating system, never confined useless by itself; it functions coherently within the context of the complete Linux operating system. Linux is never used in combination with GNU accessories: the whole system is basically Linux without any GNU added, or Just Linux. All the so-called "GNU/Linux" distributions are really distributions of Linux.

File: minus 46 fps.png (86KB, 2000x650px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 2000x650px

>>57038044
>OP, Wayland has no games it emulates Xorg.

This. xWayland is even slower than just using X.
And you have to use it since there's even less software available for Wayland than with X

>>57038025
It's true that Red Hat isn't maintaining Wayland but it's not true that they aren't using it. See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/WaylandByDefault

File: Sadpeguin.jpg (25KB, 500x235px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 500x235px

Linux fanboys be like:
"OMG, X is soooo slow, let's replace it with W and we'll have year of linux desktop for sure. What? No software for W? who care! it's the future!!1"
"Just, one, more, system, replacement"

This is exactly why Linux will NEVER replace Windows.

>>57038248
Linux won't replace windows because manufacturers do not ship Linux by default on their computers.
It has nothing to do with replacing system components.

>>57038248
by sticking to old ass standards? Yeah we wouldn't be on even 1% market share at all if we stayed on old shit, fun fact ChromeOS the most popular Linux distro (I know) uses Wayland as it's display server so it's definetly being used in the market, also the only reason why Linux isnt out there is because it's too complicated for a lot of normal friends and it isnt being sold with it preinstalled, nobody who is normal would install an OS on their computer by themselves unless it didnt work and in that case they would have LE GEEK SQUAD on it for only $5,000 to reinstall the same OS and software

>>57037957
Have you heard of a compositor?

Compton perhaps?

>>57037857
If you launch it without X11 it wouldn't help you much https://www.bing.com/search?q=OpenGL+on+Linux+without+X11
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/169021-john-carmack-thinks-the-steam-machines-biggest-problem-is-linux

Linux itself is outdated
It's like MS DOS on steroids...
Sure you can you can emulate lot of old things with 50% loss but better use modern OS supports DirectX12

>>57038443
>http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/169021-john-carmack-thinks-the-steam-machines-biggest-problem-is-linux
Did you read?

He says it works fine as a system, just that it won't fly because nobody uses it hence no games

>>57038443
>DirectX12
Vulkan is better

>>57038443
>but better use modern OS supports DirectX12
Yes, Pajeet. 5 rupees have been deposited into your MS account.

>>57038556
Why?

>>57039871
because it's on lonix and lagdroid :^)

>>57037857
I fucking agree.
It's embarrassing too.

>>57037857

X is old shit that need to be replaced. BUT that's hard becasue graphics card manufacturers don't give any specifications and you can't make drivers. So the best you can do is VESA or use some shitty closed source driver they give you.

>>57040405
>So the best you can do is VESA
How is that even possible in the first place? how the fuck does linux use vesa?
VBE3 PMID is optional and no one supports it. VBE2 PMID is gimped and can't change video modes. the only choice you have is dropping back to real mode to change mode, which I'm pretty sure Linux is incapable of doing.
So how the fuck does Linux/Xorg use vesa? I must know for my own operating system purposes.

File: 254131.png (411KB, 800x967px) Image search: [Google]

411KB, 800x967px

>Linux
>gaming

Proprietary software wins again.

>>57038253
>manufacturers do not ship Linux by default on their computers.
Most supermarket laptops here ship with linux and the rest with freedos.

>>57040438

there is so much wizardry going on, seems DRM/DRI/KMS and other crap is doing VESA if your card is unsupported or it enables those AMD/NVIDA/Intel drivers if you have any newer card. Intel actually bage specifications for their integrated graphics. So that why you can change video modes.

https://keyj.emphy.de/files/linuxgraphics_en.pdf

>>57041225

also you can force X to use VESA just to see vhat happens, if you have linux installed. I'm a good goy using Windows™ 7 :)

Graphical interfaces were a mistake.

>>57037919
>MUH UNIX PHILOSOPHY
>MUH UNIX PHILOSOPHY
>MUH UNIX PHILOSOPHY
Wayland actually forces to cram all shit of X.org in one single program.

>>57037972
>openRC
>modern
Oh, yeah, that's why it can't do cgroups tracking properly, proper parallelization of processes and still depends on sysvinit to work.

Daily reminder that NeXTSTEP and OSX are the only unices with sane graphical systems.
It's a kind of shame, really. Apple will kill HFS+ for good and we still have to resort to the 1980's rootkit.

>muh wayland
When will it be stable?

>>57037857
Whats holding back linux is everyone prefers working on their own stuff rather than coming together to make a good unified bug-free experience. Most distros try to cater to everything with a little bit of buggy custom shit management tools rather than sticking to a good subset of software.

>>57042522
It's been stable for a while. GTK3 supports it, Qt5 supports it.

What's remaining is for every window manager and application to switch to it.

All of GNOME supports it.
KDE is almost there.
XFCE won't.
LXDE wants to but they can't be arsed to write a compositor.

And many common applications like Chromium are stuck on GTK2. Either that or they still use X11 APIs somehow.

X.Org doesn't even matter for modern games.
They circumvent X via DRI anyway.