Lennart Shills BTFO

>shilling your own video

Systemd just works. It's robust and widely supported.

>>56895538
http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd
Absurd Bugs and Responses section.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Init.d works fine even to this day, the only problem is that everyone abandoned it because it was "old". The linux kernel is 25 years old, yet no one abandons it because it is still getting updated regularly.

File: Screenshot_2016-10-03_12-53-44.png (169KB, 851x529px) Image search: [Google]

169KB, 851x529px

>>56895606
Sorry anon, legacy init scripts are deprecated. Those 25 y/o scipts are really inefficient.

Just think about setting host name during boot process. Init would for a seperate process look for a bash script, execute the script, set the hostname back and the whole boot process resumes.

Systemd just replaces that with a couple of lines of fast C code.

This is professional development anon

>>56895533
Not my video. But how can I prove it? What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

>>56895657
>What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Just like your claim of systemd being an NSA botnet?
Great

>>56895656
Also, it's pretty amazing when you start researching the actual systemd technology. Redhat took what was good of Launchd, made it simple and cleverer and implemented it.

Socket activation is really amazing. You can also perform D-Bus activation in parallel.

Clever

>>56895656
Further more BSD style init scritps absolutely sucks, non-intuitive and inefficient.


I suggest you start studying, OP

>>56895521
for all of our sake, get back on your fucking medication

File: rms gnu plus linux.jpg (737KB, 1090x1500px) Image search: [Google]

737KB, 1090x1500px

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNUGjFzenq4

>/watch?v=GNUGjFzenq4

>GNUGjFzenq4

>GNU

>>56895656
>Just think about setting host name during boot process. Init would for a seperate process look for a bash script, execute the script, set the hostname back and the whole boot process resumes.
Boot speed isn't important unless you have a constant need to reboot. Given the choice between constantly quickly rebooting and rarely slowly rebooting, every sane person wants the latter.

File: WinnieTrump.jpg (76KB, 900x900px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 900x900px

>>56895521
I can't even express my love with this post.

>>56898284
Those aren't the only two choices you fucking cuck.

Multiple Linux Distributions Affected By Crippling Bug In Systemd

System administrator Andrew Ayer has discovered a potentially critical bug in systemd which can bring a vulnerable Linux server to its knees with one command. "After running this command, PID 1 is hung in the pause system call. You can no longer start and stop daemons. inetd-style services no longer accept connections. You cannot cleanly reboot the system." According to the bug report, Debian, Ubuntu, and CentOS are among the distros susceptible to various levels of resource exhaustion. The bug, which has existed for more than two years, does not require root access to exploit.

https://www.agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/4234

>>56895521
Will it have blackjack and hookers?

>>56898910

True, reducing the surface of an attack vector is another.

I didn't know SystemD also did DNS, NTP and whatnot. It's absurd. Soon it will be called SystemD instead of Linux.

>The only thing worse is reading the replies from systemd partisans when it's explained to them why the choices systemd's design makes are bad engineering practice -- am I the only one who thinks the structure of these replies is way too similar to the replies one hears from Trump supporters when it's explained why he is bad engineering practice? :-)

>his init system doesn't generate QR codes [1]
>his init system doesn't replace glibc [2]
>his init system doesn't manage his VMs [3]

1- https://plus.google.com/+LennartPoetteringTheOneAndOnly/posts/g1E6AxVKtyc
2- https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2013-March/010062.html
3- http://0pointer.de/public/gnomeasia2014.pdf

lmao you fucking plebs

Well, that's what happens when Linux overtakes so much market share. They need to keep you in the botnet somehow. Don't let the fact that you are using open source software fool you into thinking you are free of the botnet.

Do you think it's a coincidence that the rapid SystemD adoption and the new super aggressive telemetry policies in Windows happened around the same time? They were just catching up with Apple in terms of spying their users.

That's it, I'm removing systemd from my life.

>>56900728

Just removed it from my Jessie install.

Feels good man.

File: Screenshot from 2016-10-03 14-58-32.png (23KB, 515x148px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 515x148px

You are wrong. PERIOD

guixsd

>>56900641
One universal OS, one global government... I don't where this is going.

Is this guy for fucking real?

>I just added a new module to systemd git, “libc”, and you are probably
wondering what that is about. Here’s a quick overview over what this is
and our plans with it.

>We figured to complete the systemd project we were still lacking an
email program[1]. In order to get this off the ground quickly we noticed
we’d need a libc first. We had the option of either merging glibc into
systemd, or write a new C library. Of course, we are pretty good at
rewriting existing programs (we are simply faster doing that, since we
don’t have to read so much code), so we opted for the latter. The new
module ‘libc’ is the result.

>Technically, this move makes perfectly sense, too. We are sick of
supporting unstable glibc APIs and ABIs, and we believe that we greatly
benefit from the fact that we now finally have everything the OS
userspace consists of in one single repository.

>Of course, this new libc is not available to Ubuntu and other Linux
distributions that have not yet adopted systemd. However, after
deliberately choosing a home-grown display server (Wayland) over the
generally accepted one (Mir) we decided creating an incompatible libc
would be the best approach to create a strong platform following a
strict release cadence.

>>56900825
I know it sounds like satire, but it's for real.

So... don't use it? Why are these threads necessary?

>>56900825

This is actually what makes SystemDicks hard.

>>56900563
systemd is supposed to be a standard system base, those are things that every system uses so it's not absurd at all, also they are completely optional.

>>56900887
Someone got triggered.

>>56900825
That's a joke email from Lennart you fucking mouth breathers.

https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2013-March/010062.html

>>56900945
That doesn't look like a joke you piece of shit.

>>56895725
>Further more BSD style init scritps absolutely sucks, non-intuitive and inefficient.
Hi Lennart. You're wrong as always, BSD style init scripts are objectively superior to anything you faggots design.

>>56900964
It was an April fools joke you retard. http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.sysutils.systemd.devel/9925

>For the sake of the archives, and since this apparently wasn't obvious
>to everybody: this was our attempt to being funny on April 1st.

>There is no truth in the original mail.

>Lennart

>>56900945
>mouth breathers
Hi SRS

>>56900997
Not an argument.

>>56900981
Except that if you look at the original link you posted, the date isn't April 1st. He's just saving face.

Keep sucking Potterin's dick.

>>56900981

Wow, anti-systemd shills grasping at straws at this point!

>>56901013
>March 31
>what are timezones

Did you even read the mailing list? You people are really fucking dumb.

gimme that photo systemd made of isis flag

>>56901019
They probably though it was real. If they can't read a man page they probably can't read a mailing list.

>>56901040
>>56901061

systemd is literally the best thing that's ever happened to open source, no wonder you have to be dumb to oppose it.

>>56900887

To inform the people their systems are being compromised.

But you would be okay with this, wouldn't you.

Slackware doesn't use SystemD either.

>>56901075
There are smart people that dislike systemd for valid reasons but then there's these children that literally have no idea what they are talking about. 90% of the shit people say in these threads is either false and/or come from a misunderstanding of systemd (which would be solved by reading which apparently these people can't do).

I no longer worry about systemd. I did at the beginning but now it is clear it will self-destruct on its own given time. Little by little the relevant true technical people that makes up what we consider the Linux ecosystem are realizing what a fucking huge mistake it was to allow Poettering to be in charge.
One thing is sure I won't have it on mt system.

>>56901154
>There are smart people that dislike systemd
Nope.

>for valid reasons
There's no valid reason to dislike systemd. There's no possible criticism of it.

>90% of the shit people say in these threads is either false and/or come from a misunderstanding of systemd
These threads should be a bannable offense.

>>56901159
>Little by little the relevant true technical people that makes up what we consider the Linux ecosystem are realizing what a fucking huge mistake it was to allow Poettering to be in charge.

Can to elaborate? Did I miss something?

>>56901119

Neither does PCLinuxOS.

>>56901075
>>56901061
>>56901040

You must have some kind of special retardation. I just don't understand it. If these people are not paying you and you aren't trolling, why would you stand for this fucking philosophy:

>>56900825

People as bitter and mislead as you make me really sad. Systemd It's against everything Linux has always been about.

>>56901114
If you don't have anything to hide you don't have a reason not to use systemd.

Haven't you heard? only terrorists and pedophiles uninstall systemd.

>>56901190
That's an April fools joke email from Lennart, maybe read the thread? Oh I forgot you people can't read.

>>56901208
No need to insult me on top of that. It won't make me install systemd any faster.

>>56901218
Do you think I care what you install on your system? The people that make these threads are the ones that seem to care about that stuff.

>>56901172
There is a huge movement right now on the Linux kernel community to start making security the central design consideration going forward. All that work is/will be for naught if the PID1 is developed by a guy who has stated publicly he only cares about performance. The whole kernel community at some point will force Lennart to fall in line.

>>56901169

North Korea best Korea!

>>56901239
But what "relevant true technical people" were you talking about?

File: Linusrektsystemd.jpg (168KB, 553x334px) Image search: [Google]

168KB, 553x334px

>>56901248

>>56901258
The same guy that said this:
>I have to say, I don't really get the hatred of systemd. I think it improves a lot on the state of init, and no, I don't see myself getting into that whole area.

>Yeah, it may have a few odd corners here and there, and I'm sure you'll find things to despise. That happens in every project. I'm not a huge fan of the binary logging, for example. But that's just an example. I much prefer systemd's infrastructure for starting services over traditional init, and I think that's a much bigger design decision.

>Yeah, I've had some personality issues with some of the maintainers, but that's about how you handle bug reports and accept blame (or not) for when things go wrong. If people thought that meant that I dislike systemd, I will have to disappoint you guys.

>>56895521
Are there any arguments against systemd besides that it's new code? Binary logs by default is the only concern I can think of.

>>56901282

Yes.

http://ewontfix.com/14/

as much as i think systemd has many many wrong design decisions and the devs are kinda asses
but one stupid, one-line vulnerability is not what's wrong with systemd. see shellshock for instance, way more dangerous than this and bash wasnt crucified for it.

>>56901282

Not necessarily against systemd itself but against its fast adaptation in most Linux distros.

Systemd in its current state is a PMSing bitch breaking stuff with every update and totally unreliable for a production environment. That would be cool on arch, I guess, but on glacial distros like Debian it only raises suspicion.

>>56901326

But GNU software (including bash) has been getting crucified forever for being dogshit, anon.

You are just too new a fish and haven't noticed the water you're swimming in yet.

>>56901308
Only the init part of systemd runs as PID 1. Everything besides that is optional user space.

>>56901350
Does systemd break things besides the killing all user processes part?

>>56895725
>sucks, non-intuitive and inefficient.
Maybe (You) are right, but they are rather easy to maintain. When i was a kid i used Slackware and OpenBSD and what i liked is it's simplicity in the etc. It's not like systemd users can't have this too, but they need a little learning if they come from sysv or BSD. The main issue is always from udev.

>>56896495
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxHUevaC2Zk

>>56901425

>Does systemd break things besides the killing all user processes part?

That's actually just the documented stuff.

>>56895521
I have bad news OP.

Chrome OS is switching to systemd.
https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=583671#c52

>>56901555

Only bad if you were counting on Chrome-OS.

It's only logical that a US based company is mandated to include NSA/systemd in it's distro.

>>56901694
Are you saying that ironically?

> Wants to get rid of systemd over violations of some imagined best practices.
> Does not require purely functional init based on a language with formally proven soundness.
Just arbitrary. Neither getshitdoneitworks nor the correct as possible approach. Just muh beliefs.

File: 1473746802201.gif (2MB, 540x362px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 540x362px

>>56901282
>Are there any arguments against systemd besides that it's new code?
There are many, many arguments against systemd, they just aren't ones that systemd fanatics will accept so there's no point bothering to repeat them any more. For example, it's very important (for various reasons and not just because of "the Unix way") that an 'init system' is strictly modular in a fully independent way. Systemd is assuredly not. However, in threads like these, systemd partisans will muddy the waters, argue about why independent modularity isn't important, mock their opponents, and then finally claim that systemd *is* modular which is the equivalent of just trolling. And *all* of their arguments are like this: once you *finally* reach the inescapable conclusion, once they *know* they've been proven wrong, they will claim up is down and coincidentally stop posting in the thread.

It's extremely tiring to repeat the same thread over and over again, stating the same arguments and only getting squirming, trolling, deflection and silence in response. Waste of time.

>>56901967
it's a shame because it feels like most people on here who argue for systemd are just playing devil's advocate "for the lulz" but don't really realize how fucking stupid people are on this board and how if they read some shit enough times that they'll start to parrot it as truth without any factual basis

the shady politicking of systemd's adoption should be enough for anyone who cares about the FOSS ecosystem to be slightly suspicious of corporate motives. red hat is the microsoft of linux, it's right there in front of you.

>>56901967

Except you've been proven to make up lies against systemd: >>56900981

All your credibility has gone down the toilet.

I never thought someone's good honest work for the benefit of free software would instigate so much jealousy!

File: serveimage.jpg (28KB, 354x486px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 354x486px

>>56901805
we are already eating from the trash can all of the time

*schniff*

File: AlexJonesFilter.jpg (161KB, 600x460px) Image search: [Google]

161KB, 600x460px

>>56900789
>mfw

>>56895521
I have arch with runit does that count?

>>56901002
>Not an argument
Thanks for acknowledging where you came from goon

>>56895521
For some reason i can't quite put my finger on, you seem like a complete asshole.
Do you have hair plugs and a micropenis?
I just get the image in my head of a loudmouth baboon when I read you're comment.

>>56903533
He has Gentoo.

File: 1407868126140.png (43KB, 1024x750px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 1024x750px

>>56901058
Got ya, sempai

>>56903654

DELET THIS

File: 1422985685058.gif (3MB, 480x320px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 480x320px

>>56903654
Bonus

>>56895521
Why doesn't someone pull a systemd on systemd? Systemd had legacy support for the "old" interfaces, but tried to push over users to the new interfaces. Why can't someone make a set of systemd>sysvinit shims?

>>56903759

Because no critic of systemd has any technical skill, otherwise he wouldn't be a critic of systemd.

>>56903800
>what is suckless
>what are tox devs

>>56903836
Reminder that you can't cum with another dude's dick.

>>56903905
What?

>>56903905
But it is possible to cum with another dude's dick inside of you.

>>56903800

because linus torvalds is clearly a talentless hack with no technical skill

>>56903759
The best init system besides systemd is OpenRC which doesn't even have socket activation. It's sad that upstart was killed years ago and it is still better than OpenRC. I feel like systemd is here to stay.

>>56903989
See
>>56901272

>>56904022

Two things killed upstart:

- it was made by a literal fag
- it was GPL licensed and thus couldn't be adopted by many Linux distros and all BSDs

>>56904075
>it was GPL licensed and thus couldn't be adopted by many Linux distros and all BSDs

How is GPL a problem? Upstart had the same license as the Linux kernel (GPLv2). Canonical just gave up, they saw that everyone else (Debian was the final straw) was switching to systemd, they probably thought it wasn't worth it to keep developing upstart.

>>56904165

Remnant left Canonical.

systemd is LGPL and all others are BSD-licensed.

>>56904237
LGPL and GPLv2 are almost exactly the same. I didn't know about the main dev leaving but I'm sure they could have continued to develop upstart even without him if they wanted to.

File: 1467604945173.png (103KB, 1498x947px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 1498x947px

>>56902149
>Except YOU have proven to make up lies against systemd <link to post by an anon>
point number 2 in pic related. besides, systemd shills make up far more lies pro-systemd than the opposition ever did.
see http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=120652&p=570371

Holy Shit thanks for posting my video mate.

>>56905947
No tripcode because I'm phone but hey, believe if yo u want to

>>56905976
THEN WHO WAS PHONE?!?!?!?

>>56895521
http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

>>56906979
:^)

File: maxresdefault.jpg (57KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 1280x720px

I don't have time for your shit thread and I'm posting from my job.

1. There's no proof that systemd is a botnet. And no, your tinfoil blogs don't count. Maybe spend some time researching the code instead of making laughable blogs will convince people.

2. If you don't like it go use BSD or something. The benifits of Systemd are clear. The init system is objectively smarter, easy to learn and the bootup optimizations are a real thing. Partly because parallel socket activations and getting rid of redundant scripts thrown everywhere. Unix inits are really not all that wonderful. Glad that Linux is finally getting some real and practical development that doesn't stick to old, unmaintained and deprecated relics from the past.

3. Going a bit technical and I hope /g/ kiddies understand:
For each process that is spawned, you may control: the environment, resource limits, working and root directory, umask, OOM killer adjustment, nice level, IO class and priority, CPU policy and priority, CPU affinity, timer slack, user id, group id, supplementary group ids, readable/writable/inaccessible directories, shared/private/slave mount flags, capabilities/bounding set, secure bits, CPU scheduler reset of fork, private /tmp name-space, cgroup control for various subsystems. Also, you can easily connect stdin/stdout/stderr of services to syslog, /dev/kmsg, arbitrary TTYs. If connected to a TTY for input systemd will make sure a process gets exclusive access, optionally waiting or enforcing it --I don't see any loss of control here

4. Thanks to systemd, DE devs can now create more powerful graphical tools that Linux has lacked for the past 25 years.

>Round up
Systemd is a well developed, future proof, customisation and efficient init system. There is a reason why all relevant distros like Debian, Ubuntu, and of course, Fedora based distros etc has adopted it.

Only lonely unemployed neckbeards that happen to be computer illiterate will cry over an init system being popular.

>>56907356
>customisation
*-friendly

File: sysdshit.png (122KB, 1228x754px) Image search: [Google]

122KB, 1228x754px

>>56900563
>we are just an init system

>>56907483
Jesus fuck why do you care

>>56895521
Yea no one cares about Linux anymore, Fuchsia will be here next year.

You autists can do whatever you want with it for all we care, You can use Stallmans dirty feet as the init system if you want.

>>56907525
>no GUI
might as well run BSD kek

>>56907483
>optional features make me upset

Systemd can be just an init. It doesn't have to include all those things.

>>56907505
If i wanted a:
tmpfs
backlight
rfkill
bootchart
readahead
encrypted storage
efi/gpy boot
virtual machine/container
container management
hostname management
locale manager
ntp
webserver
dns cache
terminal muxer

I would install the programs that I WANT to do those features,i dont need my init/PID 1 to do these things for me.
If i wanted them i would install a program that does that.
I dont need any of that one my server
I dont need any of that on my desktop

I need an init system,that is ONLY an init system

>>56907589
But it does not act as just an init, It,by default loads everything that ISNT AN INIT SYSTEM

>>56907623
>Wants extra packages
>Installs extra packages one by one
vs
>Wants extra packages
>Just uses systemd

Guess which one has a job

>>56907623
PID 1 doesn't do all those moron, systemd is not one single process

>I don't need any of that in my server

>He doesn't need tmpfs
>He doesnt need ntp
>He fucking doesn't need container management
hahahaha

>>56907640
That's because most distributions choose to use most of the features Systemd provides. You can however build a system where Systemd is ONLY an init and nothing else, of course you likely wouldn't do that because if you care about an init being only an init there are other options besides Systemd that may be more appropriate for you.

>>56907673
>systemd is inefficient/bloated for what i need for said service
>>56907703
>systemd is not one single process
So you prove it?

You dont need tmpfs on server
You dont need ntp on a server, everything is locale anyway.When was the last time this millienia did you clock sway?
You dont need container, they are for incompetent sysadmins

>>56907774
>You dont need container, they are for incompetent sysadmins
Do I need to prove how this idiot kid is a NEET?

>>56895538
It's for def an NSA trojan.

No-one, no company, would willingly put up with Pottering and all his bullshit and monolithic PID 1 failtrains for free.

Red Hat and Ubuntu are getting paid/squeezed by the NSA to put in yet another bloated, unnessesary, riddled with backdoor bullshit into the kernel. People gave up on SELinux and they needed another vector. Expanding potterring NetworkManager program to include the entire... everything was a logical step for any government bureaucrat.

It's not needed. No-one want it. It keeps getting shilled and forced on everyone anyway. it's for def a botnet.

>>56907804
>docker
>im retarded sysadmin who cant make chroot/jails properly.

>kvm
>im a retarded sysadmin who cant decide what software i need nor can i manage a testing server prior to pushing to production

>>56907548
You don't think google will just lead it as a headless OS do you?

It's going to replace android and chrome OS soon.

>>56907840
>chroot is an alternative to containers
lmfao
Don't pretend to know what you are talking about, edgy faggot

>>56907908
chroot isnt a container
change root
CH-ROOT

File: l_21.jpg (97KB, 518x800px) Image search: [Google]

97KB, 518x800px

>>56895521
OpenRC best RC

>>56900825
Check the date.

Everyone knows emacs is the superior init. There's really no need to use these fancy "sysvinit" or "system management" solutions when everything can be done in a few lines of elisp.

File: 1475538016635.png (89KB, 739x510px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 739x510px

>>56899072
You do know latest systemd can hotpatch itself, right?

Another reason why systemd is so based

>>56895521
This sounds a lot like the "Master Control Program" (MCP) from the old Tron movie.

File: tfw too intelligent.jpg (18KB, 250x226px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 250x226px

>>56895521
>tfw too intelligent to care about SystemD

>>56895521
Only old men and """"enlightened""" redditors believe this shit. KYS.

>>56908062
Kinda what he's trying to say...

>>56910193
>Only old men and """"enlightened""" redditors believe this shit. KYS.
I'm old and I use systemd on about 10 servers, 2 desktops and 1 laptop.

>>56910848
You're one of the good one's, anon.

Only non-humans and faggots use systemd, the bright one like sysadmins don't use systemd.

The hivemind is strong with you all (but you're only a few fags and doing a forum slide).

>>56900770
It's better to get a distro without systemd because debian sometimes pulls systemd with packages that have it as a dependency.

>>56900772
Again, I don't care about the design of systemd, I care that it is controlled by RedHat, who services the NSA. Because of that there is a high probability that they put a backdoor in the OS disguised as a bug.

>>56905947
No problem, it's a great channel.

>>56909895
What are you, fucking retarded. I heard hitting shotgun shells with nails makes you smarter.

>>56910193
No logical argument and no evidence, please leave this thread if you are not going to contribute to the discussion.

>>56907711

Bullshit. Systemd already has one indirect dependency: journald

>Oh you wanna troubleshoot why alsa is shitting itself? Here's a blob you can't read without a service I expect you to be able to run

>>56895521
Fucking autistic faggot


This is why people hate linux and dont use it, its retarded fanbase deters everyone from it

>>56895521

AND, we're gonna have Microsoft pay for it.

>>56915409
Not an argument.

>>56903132
How is that possible?

>>56916475
Installed the arch-runit package from the aur and made a service for lightdm. I feel kind of bad about the service since it's just a shell script with "exec lightdm" which seems kind of low effort but I looked at systemd's service file for it and it looks like it does the same thing.

>>56917180
i was just looking at runit to replace sysvinit

do i have remove openrc as well?

>>56918948
Runit can only manage services or only act as init or both.