systemd

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>>56825133
Subscribed
Can't wait for your next blog post

>>56825133
yes, systemd already covers a million things, and they're not stopping
it's terrible

>>56825377
What's the point of this shitpost?

>>56825531
I wondered the same when I saw this thread.

yet another reason to use slackware

>>56825133
>its just a init replacement guys
>trust us we dont want to take over linux ;^)

fuck pottering

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>>56825133

>>56825133
> Never fnished, never complete,
Thats systemd for you.

>>56825586
>its needed to decrease boot times by 5 seconds

>>56825586

>if you don't support systemd in any way you are a misogynist

>>56825133
soon systemD will have its own kernel, x-window system and desktop environment, i wished they would hurry up so they will leave linux alone

So....
They're making their own OS, shitty as it might be
What is the problem here?
Because they use a kernel and utilities from third parties?
I mean, I too think systemd is shit, but let them play their game, it doesn't affect me really

>>56825969
If they will push it too much then linux will escape. They want it all.

>>56826045
Okay they wanna make their own OS, but why do they have to phagocytize my OS, namely Linux?

It does affect us, that shit has infested our ecosystem.

>>56825548

i agree

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

ITT: A bunch of neckbeared amateur linux end users bemoan systemD.

Meanwhile Professional sysadmin's can appreciate the benefits it brings and get on with earning a most healthy living actually using linux, rather than basement dwelling.

>>56826093

Linux is the kernel only, everything that's bolted on/under it are something else.

>>56826235
actually it should be "over it" not "under" when referring to the kernel

>>56826223

you sound like a butthurt neckbeared amateur linux end user anon. thankfully some of us are professional system administrators.

>>56826223
>Meanwhile Professional sysadmin's can appreciate the benefits it brings
Like crashing without possibility of a clean reboot if any User types an empty systemd-notify string.
Must be really hard to remember such advanced engineering principles such as checking if a string is greater than zero and handling it if that is the case.

>>56826223
>no technical arguments
>ad hominem
Just as expected.

>>56826295
au contraire, i do this shit for a living.

>>56826318

Pro sysadmin here, I'm recommending all my former customers migrate to FreeBSD. The company I work for is migrating to Windows Server. Everyone is running away from Linux because of systemd. Feels Batman.

>>56826300
Users should not be able to do this if the system is secured correctly. This is what a real sysadmin does in real life BTW.

>>56826346
Good luck running any openstack on freeBSD. this place reeks of amateurs.

>>56826358
Maybe, but another thing sysadmins do is make no assumptions. "This will never be exploited" is not a reasonable thing to say.

>the systemd Jews are trying to take away my freedumbs!!!1
Don't you get tired of this?

>>56826358
why would anyone migrate to windows server becuase of systemD? what a complete load of shit. You are clearly making this up

>>56826264

Systemd seems to be trying to go under the kernel in some areas.

>>56826382
>What is Jelastic?
>What is Flexiant?
>What is OnApp?
Fuck off.

>>56826407
Because it broke compatibility with a shitton of scripts and routines we had, because of instability problems, and then because we don't get to decide what's replacing what, management does, and they signed off with Microsoft. As I already said, I'd have put FreeBSD in its place.

>his init system doesn't generate QR codes
>his init system doesn't replace glibc

https://plus.google.com/+LennartPoetteringTheOneAndOnly/posts/g1E6AxVKtyc
https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2013-March/010062.html

lmao you fucking plebs

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>>56826382
>OpenStack

>>56826481
OpenStack is the future. Proper computing.

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>>56826513
Pic related is you.

>>56826223
>Meanwhile Professional sysadmin's can appreciate the benefits it brings and get on with earning a most healthy living actually using linux, rather than basement dwelling.
Professional Sysadmins are amongst the most vocal opposition to systemD

>>56826533
>Professional Sysadmins are amongst the most vocal opposition to systemD
[citation needed]

>>56826533
You are replying to a troll.

Also this terrorist bullshit OP pic is triggering me hard.

>>56826549

HIDE TRIPFAGS

IGNORE TRIPFAGS

DO NOT REPLY TO TRIPFAGS

>>56826549
"Change costs, and big change costs big
There's a reason why sysadmins in large organizations are routinely among systemd's biggest detractors.

Downtime is expensive in terms of both time and money. So is re-training. So is rewriting gigabytes of artificially-obsoleted documentation. Add them all up, factor in the associated opportunity costs, multiply by a planet's worth of installs, and before you know it, the cost to the global economy associated with systemd deployment reaches into the billions (or thousands of millions, if you prefer) of dollars/euros.

And for what exactly?

Even if systemd were a demonstrably superior technology (which it isn't), adequately spec'ed (which it isn't) elegantly designed (which it isn't), well-coded (which it isn't), properly documented (which it isn't),or developed by a responsive and responsible community with a history of delivering robust and reliable software (*cough*pulseaudio*cough*), systemd would still be at best problematic, for one simple reason: it's insanely expensive to implement, particularly given the fact that it doesn't solve any actual problem."
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=120652

>>56826567
How's your first day on 4chan?

>>56826549
see >>56826442

>>56826628
It doesn't cost anything to switch to systemd and it has a compatability layer to continue sysv script usage.

Calling you on your bullshit, I feel sorry for anyone that listens to your shit recommendations.

>>56826680

>It doesn't cost anything to switch to systemd

I don't know why you're talking about something you obviously don't understand and, to make matters worst, in order to defend something that's prejudicial for you... unless it isn't because you don't use Linux and you're just an M$ shill.

>>56826708
I understand it perfectly, you are just inflating issues and flat out lying.

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>>56826382
>openstack
HAHAHAHAHA

>>56825538
I'll open this link right now, this is much better than any corporate thread (let's name it, GAFAM/NATU threads)

It saddens me even more because these were quality posts in a YouTube thread which would belong to /b/, and make both places better.

>>56826719
spinach

>>56825957
What?

>>56826680
>It doesn't cost anything to switch to systemd and it has a compatability layer to continue sysv script usage.

To be fair, at some point that layer goes out the door. We're not going to let the luddites have their stupid compatibility layer indefinitely.

>>56826549
As a professional sys admin (my team is part of the eCommerce arm for a US wireless telco, we support ~3000 bare metal systems, 85% RHEL 6 and 15% Solaris, and ~500 VMs, all RHEL 6, across 4 data centers in 3 states.) I have done my best to avoid it, my team has done our best to avoid it, and our management has done their best to determine an upgrade path. At this time, it's mostly looking like we'll be sitting on RHEL 6 for some time.
Why?
- logging - centralized logging with plain text logs means that if network fails & your host crashes you still have locally readable plain text logs. Having journald crash (or even worse, having PID 1 crash & uncleanly take down journald thus corrupting the logs) means incomplete (at best) or completely corrupted logs
- login management - our method of user management and permissions does not currently work with systemd. To be fair, this is developed in house, so the blame is not wholly on systemd. On the other hand, it's fully portable and works across Linux (RHEL 6 or earlier, Ubuntu 14.04 provided it's headless, Suse prior to v12), Solaris (5.10), HP-UX, & AIX.
- unit files - all of the people in my team and the majority of admins in the company have been writing scripts for years. Some before the release of SysV. This means that reading, editing, & writing init scripts isn't difficult. Until documentation actually started improving a few years ago, it was leaps & bounds better than writing a unit file. Now, it's still easier because of familiarity.

My opinion: systemd is a fine solution for desktops/laptops/workstations but has NO reason to live on servers. Having improved ACPI functionality & better removable device handling is a solid desire on laptops/desktops. Improved boot times as well.
On a server I want consistency and rock solid reporting and performance. If an aspect fails, I don't want to see it bind up other parts of the system (if it can be helped. A KP is a KP after all).

>>56827032
You can still use a system logger with journald.
Stopped reading after that.

>>56826358
A secured system is likely still going to have users. Any user with a shell can run an empty systemd-notify and crash systemd. It does not require root or any other escalation.
See Andrew Ayer's post about it.

>>56827061
Shall I repost everything after it so you can actually read it?
I'm fully aware you can use central logging with journald. That does not solve ANY of the issues I make after that point, including having journald fail or PID crash and take journald with it.
You can be glib all you want, but you asked for a citation and this is as close as it gets. I have done my best to lay out why my team of admins (and the company we're a part of) doesn't want systemd on our servers.
Take it or leave it
>inb4 "leave it"

>>56827032
>spam
It's obvious you don't actually 'get' it here. Systemd is a decisions that's above your paygrade and above your company's paygrade. You're going to get it whether you like it or not. It's the law of the land, effectively, and since there are effectively no alternatives you're going to deal with it however you have to.

I don't want to bag on your team, I'm sure they'll get along just fine, but my staff is prepping for this transition and we're going to be very ready when the time comes. Yes that means investment into training but so does anything else.

>>56827061
Another fun thing to note. When meeting with our RedHat rep around the release of 7.0 I asked if rsyslog or syslogd would be running by default to offload from journald and provide (by default) plain text logging, like what Debian ended up doing. He literally laughed and said that it would be a step back. In his eyes RedHat saw no need to do so.
This had changed by 7.2 where rsyslog was enabled by default.

>>56827162
Considering we're a company that has fingers in multiple pies from a computing standpoint (not just Linux), no. Talk has included migration of key apps to AIX, HP-UX, or back to Solaris depending on scale. When discussion about full containerized solutions crop up, it leans to Alpine containers in a Docker environment due to low overhead.
If you think Linux with systemd is the only path forward in enterprise computing, then you have a very narrow focus.

>>56826358
>Users should not be able to do this if the system is secured correctly.
Quite right. Systemd is a security issue in this case. Any user can just type:

while true; do NOTIFY_SOCKET=/run/systemd/notify systemd-notify ""; done

And the system will no longer be able to reboot, restart services or similar.

>>56827203
>If you think Linux with systemd is the only path forward in enterprise computing, then you have a very narrow focus.
This. My company only has a hundred or so servers but we've been in the process of transitioning to Solaris since the systemd ramifications became clear to us. You are exactly right. It's sunk costs as far as the eye can see and there's really no reason for it aside from misguided attempts at re-inventing the car instead of fixing the ignition.

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>>56827276
>systemd reintroducing the forkbomb in 2016

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Ignoring for the moment the various technical problems with systemd, I have my suspicions that its provenance and scope are cause for an alarm.

Systemd comes from Red Hat. Red Hat, in the Linux world, is the company with the largest ties to the US government and various state security organizations around the world -- including the NSA. The US government (DoD) is Red Hat's biggest customer. Red Hat also happens to be systemd creator's, Lennart Poettering, employer.

The Linux kernel, I believe, is clean. As long as Linus lives, you're not going to subvert the kernel. Let's just assume that is true for the sake of argument. If you can't get into the kernel, what is your next option? You need something low level (PID 1?), ubiquitous, and vast in scope and complexity.

This describes systemd perfectly. It was almost like it was designed to touch as much of a Linux system as possible. It has hooks into some many different subsystems and APIs that it's almost impossible to build a modern distro with current software without pulling in systemd as a dependency. This happened almost overnight, and I think there are malicious forces at work here.

We must remember Heartbleed security exploit. Heartbleed appeared to be an innocent mistake, and it was a tiny typo in one line of a C program. If it's possible to do that much damage with a tiny little error, imagine when you have an attack surface as wide as systemd, written in a language like C that is almost designed to produce security holes when not written absolutely perfectly--and humans are not absolutely perfect programmers.

Systemd is dangerous. It's too big to be audited as quickly as it's developed. Its complexity adds as much attack surface to a Linux system as the kernel itself. We can't get away from these facts. Shitfighting about init systems is a waste of our time. Systemd is horrible because of where it comes from and how complex it is. Backdoors will be hidden in it.

>Honest Question
Are people unironically defending systemd on /g/ or is there a Redhat paid shilling operation that is going on? I'm just floored that anyone can look at all these problems associated with a huge revamp to something that wasn't really broken to begin with and conclude that it's all fine.

I've been in the business for 14 years and I have never seen Redhat step in it this hard any other time in my professional life. This is just jaw-dropping incompetence and bull-headed dedication to a foolish cause. If they're serious about staying in business they need to torpedo this ASAP.

>>56825133
A friend of mine said the slides looked like Aragon.

>>56827474
As an admin: I see no reason for systemd on a server.
As a day to day Linux user, I can see WHY people would use it as a desktop/laptop init. I personally don't, but that's all a matter of choice.
I don't feel like it's shilling. People like the choices they make, and if systemd has improved the Linux experience for them, cool. Glad to hear it.
At this point, since systemd is default in Debian (and downstream), RHEL (and downstream), and Arch (and downstream) I think a lot of people are finding that it works for them.

And, again, if it works for you and allows you to use Linux the way you want: great.
I am, however, at a loss for people who assume that because someone doesn't like systemd that they don't know what they're doing.

>>56826455
underrated post

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>>56825133
>never finished
>never complete

how do I avoid systemd cancer forever without gentoo?

>>56827549
>At this point, since systemd is default in Debian (and downstream), RHEL (and downstream), and Arch (and downstream) I think a lot of people are finding that it works for them.
This is shilling. Redhat invented it, Arch and Debian rammed it through despite unpopularity among the devs, to say nothing of the userbase. It was a big deal and now that Gnome and others are shifting into systemd dependence the so-called choice culture is in long-term jeopardy.

>>56827640
Slackware
*BSD
SmartOS by Joyent
Illumos
Solaris x86
Linux From Scratch
Void Linux
Etc
Etc
http://www.gabordemooij.com/index.php?p=/escape_from_systemd

>>56827665
>It was a big deal and now that Gnome and others are shifting into systemd dependence the so-called choice culture is in long-term jeopardy.

I agree.

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>>56827640
use windows server

>Slackware on my home server
>Gentoo on my laptop
Feels good to be cancer-free.

>>56827032
>>56827203
>>56827286
Thanks, this is very informative

>>56828180
This. Fuck man I had no idea how bad systemd actually was. I guess I had been reading shill threads since it came about but I wasn't aware of any of this.

THIS THREAD IS CANCER. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SYSTEMD. LEAVE LENNART ALONE YOU FAGGOTS REEEEEEEE!

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>>56828420
Yeah, there's been massive shilling for systemD.
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=120652
Note that professional shilling is rather sophisticated, not just simply arguing in favor of something.
The way to combat shilling is to clearly explain the truth. The article i linked above is a good example. That way everyone can tell whether something is a good or a bad idea, without relying on personal opinions of others.

Give me one (ONE) real reason to remove systemd from my ubuntu system.

>Protip
You can't.


There's no actual argument against systemd, except from tinfoil cancer

Sample systemd code:

http://sprunge.us/OIYM

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>>56828949
Tldr

>>56827549
>At this point, since systemd is default in Debian (and downstream), RHEL (and downstream), and Arch (and downstream) I think a lot of people are finding that it works for them.
it doesn't though, see
>>56827032
>>56827136
>>56827167
>>56827203
>>56827286

>>56827640
devuan is a debian fork that doesn't rely on systemD

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>>56828992
>ini style configuration

Is there any way to escape systemd without reinstalling my operating system?

>>56828992
This is what happens when you get paid professionals to do the job instead of some lonely neckbeard.

Based Red hat

>>56829058
Why do you want to "escape" systemd?

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>>56829060

Sure thing, bud.

>>56829075
See >>56826455
I was not happy, but content with the stuff listed in >>56825586
But replacing fucking libc and shoving your grimy god-damned mitts into every compiled program?
I have had enough

>>56829041
What do you expect? Red Hat is the Microsoft of the Linux world.

>>56829075
What do you care? Are you the police?

>>56829058
Depends, what operating system and version is it?

>>56829113
Arch; I've heard of ways to disable systemd on Arch, but I want to make sure it won't break anything I have set up

>>56829130
>>56829058
see http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

>>56829165
I've read that before, but like I said, I want to make sure it doesn't break my services too bad, or at least see what services will get screwed up; for example, I use connman for wifi, and I want to make sure I can use it, or something else, still
Thanks though, Anon

>>56829060

No, that's just Debian being retarded. Check out an old version of the same script:

http://sources.debian.net/src/openssh/1:3.4p1-1.woody.3/debian/init/

Don't compare your turd to another and feel triumphant because yours looks shinier.

>>56829099
>OpenBSD
Lmao why are you here? OpenBSD has only one init system while Linux has many

>>56829109
>content with the stuff listed in >>56825586
Don't see anything wrong
>But replacing fucking libc and shoving your grimy god-damned mitts into every compiled program?
wut?

>>56829113
Why do you care?

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>>56829001
Yes, I see the posts I made. Thanks.

>>56829210
>OpenBSD has only one init system while Linux has many
Not true at all. runit runs on OpenBSD, possibly others but I've never tried.

>>56829210
>wut?
Things are compiled with libc
Using systemd's libc goes beyond locking down a lot of GNU/Linux's important functions; it makes it so that every GNU/Linux program compiled with systemd's libc will possibly require it, tying down far more programs to it in a way that I find unacceptable

I may be wrong on my understanding of this, though, so feel free to correct me

>>56829209
>Somehow this is better

>>56829238

Do not reply to trolls.

>>56829253
It fits in one screen.

>>56828932
>There's no actual argument against systemd
It's a move to supplant the Linux ecosystem in order to unify it and remove your ability to make sensible choices that work for you in order to be able to force the One True Red Hat Way on you.
Poettering isn't even shy about admitting this. He even made it clear that he would deliberately make it harder for people to write non-systemd alternatives for the various "unifications" in order to dissuade people from doing so in his Gentle Push post back in 2010. (and was rather infamous for similar politicking over at the Linux Kernel over udev before he had even started on systemd)

Now there is one singular semi-bright side to this distro-destroying and that is that it'll probably unify the package managers/binary blob handling to allow for much easier cross-compatability for packages between distros. (if it fails to do even this with all the red hat money being shoved down it's throat then it'll really be a complete failure of a project and all the bad blood over it will have been for naught)

>Give me one (ONE) real reason to remove systemd from my ubuntu system.
Well if you're running a server where user's have any kind of command access they can, as of this moment, effectively forkbomb you with one command that does not require root.

>>56829238
Runit is available in OpenBSD ports. Ports are not supported

>systemd's libc will possibly require it,
citation please?

>>56829302
This is a good post.

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>>56827640
arch linux with OpenRC :^)

>>56829304
>Citation
It's my own personal conjecture based on my understanding
I assume systemd libc exists because there's something that they need that's incompatible with glibc; therefore, anything compiled with systemd libc that depends on systemd extensions will require it to be linked with only systemd libc, as far as I'm aware

>>56829302
>It's a move to supplant the Linux ecosystem in order to unify it
I'm okay with this

>Muh redhat
Don't fool yourself. Redhat is the only company to feed Linus and Linux community with GNOME and GNOME based applications, LXC, Wayland etc. I don't see other companies developed Linux as much.

>Well if you're running a server where user's have any kind of command access they can
Yes, found it:
> user's have any kind of command access they can
Not systemds fault you enabled a user to run a forkbomb. Your init system won't babysit your retardation

>>56829351
Well your personal conjecture is baseless

>>56829304
>Ports are not supported
Nice moving the goalposts, nigger.

You said OpenBSD didn't have more than 1 init system. You didn't say anything about support.

>>56829388

I TOLD YOU IT WAS A FUCKING TROLL YOU WERE WARNED

>>56829388
It doesn't. Is it even in their actual repo, wtf?

>>56829383
>Not systemds fault you enabled a user to run a forkbomb.
Actually it is.
It's a PID1 crashing bug (one of many imo) in systemd's notify that is available to anyone with user access.
If someone can type even "ls" on your server they can get the same result as a forkbomb used to, making it impossible for you to do a clean reboot or stop/start daemons and other systemd "services".

>>56829383
>GNOME and GNOME based applications
gnome isn't a crucial part of linux, there are plenty of alternatives.

>>56829426
here's a mirror of the linux repo:
https://github.com/torvalds/linux
please tell me where i can find x.org, systemD, etc.

>>56829498

Linux is just a kernel.

GNOME is a crucial part of GNU/Linux because it's part of GNU.

>>56829516
With Linux, kernel and userland are different and maintained by different people, newfag. OpeBSD or FreeBSD maintain everythiing on their repo.

Ubuntu and Fedora are the same operating system. Free and OpenBSD are not. Lurk more

>>56829494
Again, if you have the permission to run a recursive function, why would anyone stop you from doing so?

>>56829498
Yeah, and most of them are maintained by Red Hat.
Heck, Most of Linux is developed and maintained by Red Hat these days.

>>56829563
>Free and OpenBSD are not. Lurk more
please show me where exactly i implied they were.

>>56827331
THIS! This is prime meme material.

We've known that the binary log was fucking retarded, but THE SERVICE MANAGER FUCKING BOMBS THE SYSTEM? This is comedy gold! Jesus H. Hairy Christ who designs this shit? The fucking init system plus service manager plus userland bus plus networking utilities plus boot utilities plus system utilities plus logging can't even give us the courtesy of a reach-around while it's fucking us up the ass!

>>56829563
>Again, if you have the permission to run a recursive function
It's not a recursive function, the forkbomb wording is just a simile.
It's a full-on crash caused by systemd not error-handling for empty strings received from systemd-notify.

>>56829588
OpenBSD maintains its own version of X and init. Linus doesn't maintain X or any init.

>>56829624
Even better it's 2+ years old.
https://www.agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet

>>56827438
>Systemd is dangerous. It's too big to be audited as quickly as it's developed. Its complexity adds as much attack surface to a Linux system as the kernel itself. We can't get away from these facts. Shitfighting about init systems is a waste of our time. Systemd is horrible because of where it comes from and how complex it is. Backdoors will be hidden in it.
I have argued this shit for two years and the fucking fanbois still will not take it seriously. Good luck in getting them to actually put their thinking caps on and realize that code surface = increase in exploitable areas.

It is the reason I refuse to upgrade to Debian 8. I will probably bake my own install going foward or possibly just say fuckit and move to FreeBSD. Fuck systemd, fuck that pasty attention-whore lennart, and fuck Red Hat for giving everyone the finger up our collective pussy.

>>56828932
And wanting to boot and shutdown without praying and crying and smashing and killing.

>>56828949
>tripple indirection
holy shit

>>56828992
fuck you shill. daemontools is just three fucking lines long. That means your unit crap is what, three times larger than need be? Fuck off.

>>56825133
It's poettering site, everything is 100% intended to be legit.

>>56829676
So your init doesn't properly close application before shutting down?

>>56829667
>Fuck Red Hat XD
Cancer. Say good bye to Linux, Xorg, Firefox, glib, gtk+, udisks, vte, cairo, gconf, D-Bus, PolicyKit, Avahi and so on

>>56829694
>Three lines long
Comedy gold

>>56826948
Several blog posts and mailing list posts featured this as a tagline. Poettering himself (?) said that only the angry, male, misogynist minority in the linux community opposes systemd.

>>56829737
>everthing would die without RH

fuck off

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>>56829646
>It's just sending a unix socket message
Isn't this basically unblockable for a sysadmin?
That's fucking hilarious.

>>56829766
Yes, and I don't think you would like Canonical very much, kool kids don't like companies amirite?

>>56829195
Connman worked without any manual input with openrc on gentoo when I tried (last was about 6 months ago, now I'm just plugged directly so I don't have to deal with either networkmanager or connman which I feel are both insufficient).

>>56829737
>Comedy gold
Sorry....just TWO lines.

#!/bin/sh
pgrphack sshd -D -e

>>56825969
Why would systemd implement hopefully soon obsolete x11, wayland ftw.
If you hate systemd because its doing to much, you should also hate linux for not beeing a microkernel.

>>56825586
all of this is better than the shit it replaces

>>56829737
>Linux, Xorg, Firefox, glib, gtk+, udisks, vte, cairo, gconf, D-Bus, PolicyKit, Avahi
Whatever, old, not applicable, cancer, cancer, whatever, cancer, cancer, cancer, cancer, cancer, cancer...

What am I loosing again?

>>56829667
Just so you know, you can run Debian 8 without systemd.
You might have issues with DE's that use features provided by it, but that's an issue with DE's and not platforms.

>>56829859
>Kernel
>"whatever"
>"what am I losing again"
hehehehehehe

>>56829847
Tell me bout that Hurd

>>56829851
and yet you ignore that there are and have been better replacements for decades. This "the common shit is shit, this is better than shit" argument is a strawman, the problem isn't the shit, the problem is getting the distros to not use shit to begin with. Your argument is a moot point.

>>56829847
This, actually

Here's a classic Pottering quote.
>The Linux community is dominated by western, white, straight, males in their 30s and 40s these days. I perfectly fit in that pattern, and the rubbish they pour over me is awful. I can only imagine that it is much worse for members of minorities, or people from different cultural backgrounds, in particular ones where losing face is a major issue.

>>56829884
>Runs out of tech argument
>Tries to divert topic to /pol/
Go back

>>56829884
FUCKING

>>56829879
Logical fallacy. A comes with B, A is not a part of B, you hate A, so you MUST hate B.

Wrong. A(systemd) and B(linux kernel) are supposedly separate - or are systemd proponents going to contradict themselves on this one?

>>56829876
what speaks agains unifing all this shit?
having the same config files for cron*timers* as for network configs and init scrips seems pretty nice to me..

>>56829896
WHITE

>>56829884
>>The Linux community is dominated by western, white, straight, males in their 30s and 40s these days.
Smells like...SJW.

>>56829915
MALE

>>56829911
>what speaks agains unifing all this shit?
what speaks for it?

Provide me with a positive before I provide you with a negative.

The argument should be heard on both sides. This is not unilateral.

>>56829910
That's not logical fellacy. If anything you are being selectively picky about the choices you make

>Why not systemd?
>"Muh unix"
>Why Linux then?
>"Logical fellacy"

>>56829847
>you should also hate linux for not beeing a microkernel
I do
The literal minute GNU Hurd finishes, I'm switching to it

>>56829936
systemd-nspawn

>>56829884
Get this man a refugee.

can anyone give me an argument besides duhur they want to take over loonix?

all i read hear is bullshiting.
give me a tecnical argument why sysd is wores than one of the 100 things it replaces.

>>56829973
Stop replying to yourself

>>56829847
>muh microkernel meme

>>56829990
There ain't ANY m8.

There is NO reason to uninstall systemd form your home computer

>>56829939
>If anything you are being selectively picky about the choices you make
the choices YOU made. fixed that for you...

>>56829860
>You might have issues with DE
I use it for a server. No problems with DEs.

>>56829990
>>56830008
>t. (((Redhat)))
Also, samefag

>>56830042
Hey, I am using both Linux and systemd. So the choices I made are coherent

>>56830058
Actually I want to work in redhat, because it's the only real company to maintain Linux. I'll enjoy working there.
Not samefag though.

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>he doesn't use systemd-imp to edit raster images
>he doesn't use systemd-www to browse the web
>he doesn't edit text with systemd-edit
>he doesn't have at least two systemd-vm's
>he doesn't use the systemd-pkg package manager
>he doesn't protect himself with systemd-fw
>he doesn't watch his movies on systemd-video

>>56830093

Hey /g/, what systemd/Linux distro do you recommend for a 10-year old PC?

>>56829991
>he thinks criticism of social justice is uncommon on 4chan and therefor must be samefagging
Sorry snowflake. People are generally fed up with your bullshit.

>>56830114
Anon, if you are going to samefag and get caught you do not reply

>>56830074
>I love the tentacle-rape init system that was forced on the Linux community
kys shill

>>56829924
He's a hardcore SJW yes, and a political animal to boot.
Like every other word he says that's not a technical claim is how much white guilt he has and how others are horrible for not recognizing their white guilt and bowing down to his political arguments on tech.

>>56830132
> tentacle-rape init system
Are you from /b/?

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>>56830104
I'd just like to interject for moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, systemd/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, systemd plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning systemd system made useful by the systemd corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of systemd every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of systemd which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically systemd, developed by Red Hat.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the systemd operating system: the whole system is basically systemd with Linux added, or systemd/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of systemd/Linux!

>>56829990
For one it's running unsafe code in PID1, which all Linux processes branch from, and isn't even authorizing it.
It's just a cavalcade of bad design and Not Invented Here theology. The whole shitshow with binary logging for an instance of the latter.

>>56830104
systemd/urmum is probably the best.

>>56830171
You sound frustrated.

remember the systemd backdoor scandal?

>>56830170
You need to have proper authorization to run any code

>>56830196
You sound poottering.

>>56830166
>LP as RMS
>both create something, then tries to co-opt something use using the original something he created
Somehow, the irony is not funny.

>>56827640
PCLinuxOS

>>56830208
Actually no, see the unix socket message with systemd-notify bug.
It sends code to systemd running at PID1 which it runs the same regardless if the sender is root or a regular user.
It crashing is a relatively minor issue compared to it running user-sent shit in PID1.

>>56830221
Systemd latched onto Linux though
Linux latched onto GNU, though it's not part of GNU still

>>56830247
Link

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>>56830247

>>56830287
REKT

Feels good to be a winfag. My OS is spying on me all the time, but at least they're honest about it and the developers themselves aren't constantly fagging out about social justice. I completely expect that shit from marketing and human resources, but from a lead dev? Fucking hell that's a bridge too far.

>>56827640

TrueOS

>>56830287
If you're running Arch or Centos you have to put it in a while loop like this code:
>>56827276
Not that your screen is showing much since systemd crashing stops the things it ties into like allowing you to start/stop daemons and shutting down/rebooting.

>>56827640
Redox OS

>>56825133
Seems reasonable to me? Doesn't look like satire

>>56830281
see
>>56829646

>>56825133
do you always systemd or just after mr i robot?

>>56830360
Fixed see >>56830287

>>56830343
>responding to lennart poettering's designated cock slurper

>>56825558
>its just a init replacement guys
said nobody ever

all the criticisms people have for systemd seem to be based around the misguided assumption that it's an init system and not an OS.

>>56826093
>my OS
If it's your OS then why are you using systemd?

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>>56830315
Your OS doesn't include slideshows that look like Louis Aragon, though.

>>56829247
>I may be wrong on my understanding of this, though, so feel free to correct me
You are aware that the systemd-libc thing was posted on april 1st and is dripping with blatantly obvious satire from head to toe?

>>56830387
you assume I am...when I am not.

>>56830398
>Louis Aragon
>member of Communist Party
so...we should have lots of red-white-black posters with hammers and banners proclaiming "Down with the inits! Proclaim the right way of thought with systemd! Bring joy to the proletariat life with systemd units!"

>>56830387
Because I want to...

>>56830428
Then why are you complaining about systemd phagocytizing your OS?

>>56827640
Install Genode

Thread is over.

Systemdfags++;
Anti_systemd_hippies += 0;

Every one go home

>>56830593
5 lines earler:

Systemdfags = -1
Anti_systemd_hippies = 20

rekt fgt

>>56830593
>subhuman social justice Lennarts actually believes this
oh I'm laffin

>>56830619
>10 lines earlier

Systemdfags+=50;
Anti_systemd_hippies += 0;

get fucked, hippie

>>56830619
>He doesn't declare var types
hahahaha spotted the new fag

>>56830633
Cry all you want, all relevant distros use systemd

>>56830652
>oh I'm laffin
is not crying "new fag". Reading learn must!

>>56830652
>Gentoo isn't relevant
How new are you?

>>56830652
>he doesn't get ironic scripter posting
you must be 18 to post here

>>56830677
Gentoo uses systemd, not really all that relevant once you get actual jobs

>>56830672
>"laffin"
sure m8

>>56830693
>Can't post two lines of correct codes
>""muh irony oldfaggotry""
Damage control at it's finest
Go back to koding with kool girls, faggot

>>56830694
>Gentoo uses systemd
Not by default newfag. Lurk moar. You're not tall enough for this ride yet.

>>56830652
I'm sorry anon, but by definition any distro that locks itself into systemd is then irrelevant. :^)

File: jin2.png (7KB, 1176x164px)

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>>56830677
systemd is fully supported by Gentoo as a first-class citizen

>>56830710
>being this butthurt

>>56830722
See >>56830694 again

>>56830734
Sorry anon by definition any distro that doesn't have systemd support is irrelevant :^^)

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>>56830343
I made a gif for you showing the bug not working.

At least Gentoo has a choice in using systemd. Isn't choice and freedom great? Unlike lesser distros that have no option. You use what the lazy dev wants.

>>56830776
REKT
W/ NO RESPEKT

How will anti systemd hippies will ever recover? kek

>>56830798
>anti systemd hippies
>t. Lennart turtle-neck beatnik Poettering.

>>56830788
According to the systemd shills, Gentoo uses systemd even though you have to manually install it as by default it uses something else. Yet Debian doesn't use runit even though the same reasoning applies.

The doublethink is pretty entertaining.

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>>56825133
BOTNET
O
T
N
E
T

>>56830776
might like to share ur bash rc?

>>56830819
Butthurt spotted

Systemd FTW

>>56830829

# /etc/skel/.bashrc
#
# This file is sourced by all *interactive* bash shells on startup,
# including some apparently interactive shells such as scp and rcp
# that can't tolerate any output.  So make sure this doesn't display
# anything or bad things will happen !


# Test for an interactive shell.  There is no need to set anything
# past this point for scp and rcp, and it's important to refrain from
# outputting anything in those cases.
if [[ $- != *i* ]] ; then
    # Shell is non-interactive.  Be done now!
    return
fi


# Put your fun stuff here.

>>56830828
You do realise it's your own "cloud", don't you?

Dumb phone poster

>>56830830
>This is the best defense of systemd itt.
Man it's hilarious to watch you smug faggots get btfo.

File: how_email_works.png (164KB, 596x689px)

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>>56830844
You do realise that the "cloud" is a buzzword for someone else's computer.

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>>56830886
>someone else'
Read again, turdbrain

>>56830944
You do realise that "botnet" is a meme for any piece of software that sends data over a network. Lurk more newfag

>>56830776
>time in task bar is lower than time in log
HMMMM
RLY MAEK U THING

>>56831020
>Still trying
Fucking retard, when you get BTFO it's best to get out of the thread

>>56831068
POO
IN
LOO
TTERING

>>56831068
Great, when do you leave?

>>56831068
When do you leave?

>>56831080
>>56831081
>>56831099 (Samefag)
>Being this butthurt over getting BTFO

File: Screenshot_20160928-221135.png (149KB, 1080x1920px)

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>>56831106
Just leave already

>>56831106
>Getting BTFO by everyone ITT while you cuck for Lennart
It's pretty sad senpai. I honestly feel bad for you.

>>56831121
I know the trick, buttmad faggot

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>>56831045
Pfff

Supposed I faked this one too eh?

>>56831135
>he's still here being this assblasted about getting btfo
lel

>>56830776

I love how anti-systemd shills have to make up fake bugs to justify their hate and jealousy for the cutting-edge in Linux init technology.

>>56831135
>getting this mad after being BTFO
Go back to sucking Lennart's cock

>>56831158
>Raping a dead body

>>56831162
This, I wish mods would just ban systemd haters.

>>56831129
>>56831167
>>56831160
>Literally running out of things to say
hahahaha I like when vegan hippies get rekt

Reminder that only NEETs cry over init system

>>56831174
I wish mods would just ban systemd shills

>>56831162
>systemd
>cutting edge linux init technology
toppest of keks, m8

>>56831189

We aren't shills, no one's paying us to support a great piece of software. Now go away.

>>56831179
>Being this mad over not getting the botnet meme
Please leave

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mfw when i dont give any shits about systemd and use arch

>>56831201
>a great piece of software
keep the jokes coming! lmaoing over here

>>56831201
>he shills for free

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>>56831162
Its a real bug, it just trivial to fix because my package manager doesn't suck.

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>This whole thread
Still looking for ONE (O N E) real reason to uninstall systemd from my system


Sorry to break it to ya, OP. Your memes are not really convincing anyone

>>56831247
>needing a reason to uninstall systemd
feeling insceure are we?

>>56831247
>putting your fingers in your ears LALALA CANT HEAR YOU
I'm sure you'll totally find the myriad legit reasons to uninstall systemd like that, anon. You're quite thoroughly lost in Egypt.

>>56831273
>Uninstalling init because some virgin neckbeard said so
You tried

>>56831284
Give me one, let's start.
>Hard mode
No philosophical bullshit

>>56825133
>The glue between the applications and the kernel
>What we already cover:
init system,
journal logging,
login management,
device
management,
temporary and volatile le management,
binary
format registration,
backlight save/restore,
rfkill save/restore,
bootchart,
readahead,
encrypted storage setup,
EFI/GPT partition
discovery,
virtual machine/container registration,
minimal
container management,
hostname management,
locale
management,
time management,
random seed management,
sysctl
variable management,
console managment, . . .


kill me now

>>56831298
Nice. Linux is finally getting unified.

You can ask for bleach in the nearest superstore

>>56831247
>Still looking for ONE (O N E) real reason to uninstall systemd from my system
I can't really argue in good faith in favor of Windows, BSD or OSX.

Shame that a good alternative like Linux doesn't exist anymore and that everyone is just running systemd's OS.

>>56831297
>give me one
https://ewontfix.com/14/
https://ewontfix.com/15/
There, I gave you several. I will now await your inevitable amusingly denial laden response.

>>56831332
You failed the hard mode

>>56831306
>linux is finally turning into windows
>woooooo! windoooooows!

>>56831158
>stopping the process before starting sshd
MY THINKPAN IS OVERLOADED!!!1111

>>56831348
>Muh Unix
Linux is not Unix.
>Attack surface
Linux itself is a massive attack surface


Come on, give me one REAL reason that effects real user experience and not some tinfoil lecture

>>56831348
>systemd now means rebooting for updates
FUCKING WHAT

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mfw systemd is bringing linux into the new age and virgins are getting mad

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>>56831383
>Grasping on the last straw half an hour later
hehehehe

>>56825586
I'm only switching to it when it has Facebook messenger integration. That's like next month right?

>>56831431
>

>>56831401
Wow. I was expecting denial, but you also gave me a hefty helping of no-fucking-clue. Neat.

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>>56831383
I clearly stopped the while loop after I started and stopped sshd.

I deliberately used & and fg so you would see the job management.

journald is setup to drop messages that repeat like that to prevent logs from filling up with garbage.

>>56831492
What?

Linux isn't Unix and I don't really care about Unix. It has nothing to do with daily OS usage.

>>56831415
This

>Approved by Linus
>Approved by RMS
>Free and open source
>Actively maintained and widely supported

Systemd is the future. Just like wayland. Neckbar NEETs are irrelevant, Linux will not be snowflake OS anymore

>>56831595
"I don't know and I don't care" != approved.

>>56831595
The first three are irrelevant, but I agree. NEET opinions do not matter. That's why I run Windows.

>>56831661
I run windows as well, under a VM

>>56831657
>Linus knows less than 56831657
>RMS knows less than 56831657
top kek

>>56829990

No init system should allow process 1 to depend on external resources. It should be statically linked, and allocate all memory it needs at startup time.

It needs to be able to keep itself running no matter what happens to the system.

Looking at FreeBSD's init:
ldd: /sbin/init: not a dynamic ELF executable
Statically linked, no external dependancies.
Looking at the source code: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/stable/11/sbin/init/init.c?view=markup

It allocates all the memory it uses at startup, and makes sure to never change memory allocations once it has forked a child process.

Let's look at what systemd depends on:
/$ ldd /sbin/init | wc -l
25

Dozens of external libraries. A whole tangled mess of code hoisted into a critical process.

>>56831595
>approved by RMS
It's funny, but you know he would absolutely vocally loathe it if it wasn't for the fact that Poettering was an anti-white EFF political.

>>56831691
Linus doesn't give a fuck about anything outside the kernel. RMS doesn't give a fuck about whether software is actually any good as long as it superficially respects his freedoms.

>>56831691
Linus doesn't know shit about anything. Not only has every single non-trivial contribution to the kernel been done purely by 3rd parties, but you can't even claim linus is at least good at auditing or asserting the quality of commits. Shittons of commits were denied because of bullshit reasons, while the kernel has critical issues with every release and the average discovery time for a critical bug from the time of cause-commit is over 3 years.

Nevermind the fact that those were paraphrased quotes. Neither of them have any real interest in getting to know systemd in the first place and both of them have expressed that they don't know or care.

>>56831240

It's not real because systemd has no bugs at all, you fucking MS shill.

>>56832535
Leave the good OS out of this freecuck.

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>>56832547
>Windows
>Good

>Presentation: Talking to systemd from a Web Browser
>systemd built a D-Bus API that represents the integrated state of a system, its services, resources, logins, and (hopefully soon) networking.
>D-Bus is powerful and complete, but unfortunately presents barriers for modern development, as apparent from the lack of clients and callers.
>We think that systemd's API should be trivial to access with web technologies, so we'll show you how to talk to that API directly from a web browser.
https://cfp.systemd.io/en/systemdconf_2016/public/events/21

>>56830372
>and not an OS
well it sure would have been fucking nice if someone asked me before putting an OS inside the OS I was already perfectly fine with.

>>56831370
I'm glad Windows can't use systemd so Linux stays superior, though.

>>56835822
>>56832535
>tfw systemd shills are becoming a parody of themselves

>>56836106
I wrote >>56835822.

How is it a parody? I wouldn't say Linux is superior to anything without systemd, but I was referring to Windows.

Seriously, have you already compared Kate and Wordpad? It's like comparing the Leonora Cristina to a cart. That's ridiculous. I'm glad the new Microsoft CEO isn't a total idiot and that he would be going to make Windows somehow usable (by copying all Unix UIs from the past 15 years atm).

>>56836520
* I wouldn't say Linux is superior to anything that doesn't use systemd (and not that it wouldn't be superior ((to Windows)) if there wasn't systemd).

>>56836520
1/10, try to try next time.

>>56836593
>I didn't understand what Leonora Cristina is and I rated him 1/10 that will show him hehehehehe

>>56826223
>implying sysadmins aren't basement dwellers

>>56826223
It brings no benefits. Only basement dwelling paid shill would imagine otherwise.

>>56829859
/thread

>>56829859
The fucking kernel tinfoil computer illiterate fuckwit

>>56829859
>>56838402
Samefagging.

>>56831723
just werks :^)

>>56831723
Aren't these "external libraries" systemd's internal dependencies?

>>56829990
>why sysd is wores than one of the 100 things it replaces.
they "replace" it by reusing the code and integrating the stuff in their system.

>>56830093
systemd-nodejs (for systems programming) when?