I'm really liking systemd

>>56412234
>You can get per-group resource monitoring via systemd-cgtop
Awesome, didn't know about that yet! Just another reason to like systemd

Glad to hear it's working out for you OP. I know the plunge can be scary but I'm happy I did it.

>>56412234
fuck off troll, baiter, or systemd shill

>>56412246
Stop clinging to the past you retarded hippy. SystemD is being adopted by most distros for a good reason, it's simply better.

>>56412246
>muh sysvinit
>muh minimalism
>muh 70's guidelines
>muh mainframes

>>56412287
Ironically systemd is much more suited for mainframes, because it has proper seat/session tracking.

>>56412271
>>56412287
No, you.
http://suckless.org/sucks/systemd

>>56412271
Except, it simply isn't better. Actually sysadmins realize the problem with systemd logging tools, and minimalists have much more bloat to remove. The "faster boot times" are negligible. Systemd has its own implementations of su and sudo. Remind why we are using systemd again?

>>56412360
I work as a linux sysadmin and the logging tools in particular are one of the main reasons I decided to switch to systemd for my home system. What a convincing argument you bring there

literally just powered up mozilla to see if there was any systemd shitposting going on.

been doing some more research lately and i'm officially scared. what can an anon do about this imminent threat to his freedom?

>>56412511
>home system

kek

>>56412234
t. NSA

>>5641257
What? You don't like Systemd as a hard dependency? You don't like having factory-resetting built into your OS? You don't like windows style boot process?

>>56412300
It's funny really that the shit that makes mainframe babys cry is the most mainframe friendly software created.

>>56412511
What about how systemd creates autofs mount points and starts daemons before their filesystems are available? Systemd is literally retarded.

>>56412310
Their arguments are:
>muh tradition
>muh unix philosophy

>>56412731
>if I ignore everything there is nothing
>thus the world doesn't exist
>QED

>>56412234
>I've barely scratched the features and I'm excited
Start playing around with systemd-nspawn and machinectl if you want another rush of excitement.

>>56412752
Nice gaslighting anon.

>>56412731
and your argument is:
>muh boot time
>most people are using it, therefore it must be good

>>56412731
Can I install it without sudo? (or the other packages in the old .gif sockpuppet eating)

>inb4 your needs should be x therefore you need sudo

>>56412723
That quite honestly sounds like an error in your configuration more than anything else.

And init system is something you work with. No maintainers on planet earth could possibly figure out your dependency requirements upstream. Add the right dependencies you need to make sure your things start in the right order and stop complaining about it.

>>56412731
I don't understand. Are you accusing him of having rather excellent reasons to not like systemd?

systemd "just works".

>>56412804
>excelent reasons
Yes. I'm acussing them for having excelent 70s reasons to limit 2010s computers functionality.

>>56412800
systemd is a collective framework of 70+ independent binaries and tools Nobody is forcing you to use all of them. For example, I use `sudo`, `ntpd`, `unbound` etc. instead of the systemd alternatives, because I have nothing to gain from switching those.

Meanwhile, I use journald instead of syslog and timers instead of cron, becauase those actually give me some advantage over the legacy stuff they replace.

Just be smart and make your own choice instead of swallowing the shit fed to you by others..

>>56412802
No, that's how systemd auto-fs system works.

>>56412812
so did mint until your system became a petri dish for malware.

>>56412829
its funny because systemd absorbed gummiboot, which was said to "just work"

>>56412817
Still confused. Are excellent reasons suddenly irrelevant because they are old or time-tested?

Is systemd on le right side of history?

>>56412823
Considering it works absolutely fine here (*including* auto-fs mounted via NFS), I'm just going to go ahead and assume you're doing something wrong.

that awkward moment when systemd isnt faster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWjPvME5hb8

>>56412876
You're also assuming that I'm using a "home station" as well.

>>56412821
well, arch forced me into systemd, years ago, I like timers and the simple .service files but this guys complain for a valid reason, not enough for me to switch cause my needs are very simple. I hated when systemd crashed and my log files were gone, there's when started to read about.

File: 4JJoNkR.png (143KB, 640x325px) Image search: [Google]

143KB, 640x325px

>>56412234
>it's one of the rare times the community took a step to reduce the fragmentation
>systemd
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=120652&p=570371

Systemd needs a web browser.

>>56412902
I'm talking about an environment of a few dozen servers and a few hundred workstations, all of which are running systemd.

But sure, go blame lennart for your own incompetence

>>56412913
>picks arch linux
>complains about having no choice
can't make this shit up

>>56412885
"systemd boots faster" has always been a meme because systemd has precisely 0 technical advantages. Lying about something that literally doesn't matter in any way is much easier than lying about something meaningful since few people will bother disproving or even examining the claim: they'll be too busy repeating ad nauseum why systemd is dogshit for actual technical reasons. Thus, the sheep can be safely convinced.

>>56412955
no u

>>56412940
The comments about the GR are what's most baffling. Even more so when you look around and notice that the same kind of queerness happened with not only distros that adopted systemd, but projects which have come to depend on systemd and even projects that were absorbed by systemd.

>>56412949

I'd just like to interject for moment. What you're refering to as Linux, is in fact, SystemD/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, SystemD plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning SystemD system made useful by the SystemD corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the SystemD system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of SystemD which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the SystemD system, developed by the SystemD Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the SystemD operating system: the whole system is basically SystemD with Linux added, or SystemD/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of SystemD/Linux! 

Can we make a systemd distro? Make systemd a dependency for GCC and Wayland?

>>56413089
It's already a de facto dependency for wayland (because every serious wayland compositor depends on systemd).

>>56413089
Dibs on the logo

>>56413031
Without being polemical, is pretty obvious it was a hijack.

>>56412868
They're irrelevant because those precepts where made in a time where we expected different things of computers of that era.
Our computers are different now.

File: 1466767163489.png (162KB, 250x500px) Image search: [Google]

162KB, 250x500px

It's completely pointless to get engaged in these threads, but all I'm going to say is that systemd's supposed benefits are irrelevant to the argument made in favour of avoiding it. My system has worked just fine for years and I have no intention of changing it. I don't care about boot time because, hey, it's current year, and in the few cases I have to hard restart it's not going to matter whether I shave off ten seconds or not.

Before anyone answers, please understand that I'm well aware of the advantages systemd offers. I'm aware of the problems with sysvinit (although I don't run vanilla sysvinit anyway). I'm not even really a fan of Unix systems. But the answer is not to try and "fix" sysvinit by going in the exact opposite direction and making it even worse, then trying to obfuscate how much shit you've loaded into one daemon by sausaging them around with "cgroups", or by introducing completely insane software like journald.

If I want to run Windows, I'll run Windows.

>>56413595
>le systemd is windows meme

>>56412234
Works great until you run into undefined behavior and discover defaults don't do what you think they do, and they aren't documented.

Then by the time you figure out what they do new patches are crammed into systemd that turn on more defaults.

Then you see daemons coming a long and rewriting your /etc files without telling you, you stop said daemon and then a new daemon spawns and rewrites it.

It's cancer

>>56413626
Fuck off lennart.

File: 1466855878695.png (812KB, 705x1080px) Image search: [Google]

812KB, 705x1080px

>>56413626

Walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... Although you're right in a sense anon, Windows log managers are probably more mature

>>56412571
Run slackware (for now, no systemd)
Run a bsd
Run Gentoo
Run windows
Run OSX

>>56413691
>run OSX
It has launchd

>>56413679
>Walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..
But systemd doesn't behave like windows. It behaves more like the idea that freeturds have about NT/Win32

>>56412234
> app as a service
I want these memes to end

>>56413749
>tfw your next gen Nvida/AyyMD graphics card will be a literal card with a one year suscription for "cloud graphics processing"

>>56413780
>>>/reddit/

>>56413793
LEL

>>56413793
>stop making jokes in my thread!

>>56413550
Name a few examples of 'modern' things a computer with systemd can do that one with init can't.

>>56413595
What are the benefits of systemd?
I'm interested in your opinion because you oppose systemd

>>56413905
Reconfigure the computer and start services on demand when hardware is plugged or unplugged.
Shutdown the machine properly and gracefully.
Execute containers seamlessly.

>>56413989
All of this has been possible for 2 decades or more before systemd was ever conceived.

>>56413999
With hacks, ugly code and unmaintenable solutions.
Or, in case of the shutdown, just ignoring the problem.

>>56412511
I work as an admin (part of a group of 7) that has ~3000 RHEL 6 (maybe a dozen RHEL 5) to manage. We're specifically looking for an upgrade path that doesn't include RHEL 7 or other systemd based distros because of the many things it breaks.
Like having a system crash and corrupt your logs since journald didn't terminate cleanly. And since it's not plain text logging, all useful data is lost. Good thing we have central logging, right?
Well, it doesn't make a bit of difference if you run into a core dump or other major failure during boot before networking is entirely up. At least with SysV init (or svcadm for our Solaris hosts) we can connect locally and parse what's been logged.
Systemd makes sense for desktop and laptop use. Fine. I'll give it that. But it has no place in enterprise unless you're RedHat, and only then because if you're not dog fooding no one will trust your product.

>>56414113
I work as an admin and I experienced the reverse.

>>56412234
Straight theft from reddit.

>>56414048
BSD jails and Solaris zones were a cleaner implementation of "containers" than docker ever was and obviously had no need for systemd

>>56414164
You mostly bare metal or VM?

>>56412657
Just install gentoo already and fuck off

>>56414236
Bare metal. Sometimes VM.
Systemd for me hasn't been a godsend, but was better that the turds that reeplaced.

>>56414309
Your mum's basement is not a business.

>>56414309
Which turds?
Do you mean default system logging?
Do you mean centralized logging?
Do you mean initialization and service management?
Do you mean permissions and user management?
Because systemd caused changes to all of these things with RHEL 7. And for a shop that's been running LDAP with either syslog-ng or rsyslog for ages, it's lead to more reimplementation than progress.
Not to mention how absolutely poor systemd unit file documentation was until about 1 year ago.

>>56412955
Hi Lennart, how's it hanging?

>>56412955
>I'm talking about an environment of a few dozen servers and a few hundred workstations, all of which are running systemd.
>few dozen servers and a few hundred workstations
>few hundred workstations
>workstations

Again, I reiterate, systemd makes sense enough for someone using it on a desktop or laptop. But it has no place in an enterprise environment running on servers.
A "few dozen servers" does not an enterprise environment make. The smallest data center my team manages is ~500 bare metal servers with just under 100 VMs in one of the clusters.

>>56413989
>recnfigure on demand
Whats it good for?

How do you mean gracefully?

File: BILLL.jpg (127KB, 600x848px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 600x848px

>>56412271
>Stop clinging to the past
Braindead
Kys

File: gameon.jpg (50KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 500x500px

>>56412360
this
CAN'T WAIT for Devuan +Gnome

>>56412234
lately the Red Hat marketers are particularly active on this board. Are you seriously take us as real linux users? 9/10 of this board is using wangblows and is not able to program, mindlessly reiterating GPU and /v/ threads. Why don't you go to shill your bullshit to reddit?
You already destroyed debian, now you have no serious competition from the open source community anymore. WTF do you want to achieve?

File: jewsoft.png (340KB, 632x461px) Image search: [Google]

340KB, 632x461px

>>56414805
Bump.

True

>Gpl licensed, free and open source
>"Just werks"
>Faster boot process
>Eliminates bloat/meme packages

There is NO reason why one should delete systemd from his system. There is nothing systemd can't do what other init systems can.

>Botnet
Source is open, show where

>Not Unix
Neither is linux

>pottering
So what packages did YOU publish yesterday?

>>56415478
POOTERING IN LOOTERING, LENART

>>56415521
Epic argument, insignificant NEET

meanwhile trying to administrate servers

fuck off with your linux on the desktop meme. I don't want to have to learn netbsd.

File: 1471693952008.jpg (46KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 640x480px

>>56416006

>>56412287
I'm pretty sure everyone here would rather use systemd than sysvrc/sysvinit.

File: rmsexherbo.png (122KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

122KB, 1920x1080px

real disadvantages

(as in, things systemd forces you to do)
systemd is tied to linux kernel and glibx and udev and specific journaling daemon, basically, having systemd means you're locked in to a whole lot of other things
systemd is renowned for locking up during startup and boot when you have network filesystems
systemd hardcodes quite a lot of the booting and shutdown process in C which other systems place in easily editable scripts

less real disadvantages
(mostly things that in practice happen due to how distributions work but in theory are not required by upstream systemd)
systemd in practice requires quite a lot of things: ACLs, PAM, dbus, polkit, these are not hard requirements but without this the above advantages are lost so all distributions enable them at compile time.
logind starting to do retarded shit like user sessions and having retarded power management, in theory you can disable logind, but no distribution again does this
systemd is very monolithic and comes in one configuration compared to being able to piece your system together yourself, this sounds bad except that unless you run something like Gentoo or Exherbo you were already submitted to this, while the distribution was able to pick the choice of lower level system components before they switched to systemd, you had no choice in this and just used what your distribution stuffed you with. If your distribution used whatever cron daemon, you used that, if your distribution used consolekit1/2 you used that, if your distribution used acpid/Upower, you used that, you used whatever device manager, syslogger, init and RC your distribution used. While systemd replaces all those things and thus leaves the configuration no longer a choice for the distribution, unless you ran a meta distro that allowed you to choose those things you didn't loose much choice now did you?
systemd is both an unfair scapegoat and is being unfairly praised.

>>56416461
Ok, you say its monolithic. But afaic you can ditch some if its modules, like sudo, can't you?

And what are the advantages?

>>56416461
>real disadvantages

>No real ones

>>56413595
Sucking smoke in caves worked just find for thousands of years, we never should have invented agriculture.

>>56414113
>Like having a system crash and corrupt your logs since journald didn't terminate cleanly.
You do know that journald is optional, right? systemd works just fine with syslog.

Seriously though, even if systemd is "God's gift to man" it shouldn't become a dependency for so many packages.

>>56418291
The only reason people choose to depend on systemd is because systemd makes their lives easier.

If you have a problem with that, blame the people who choose to depend on it, don't blame the dependency for being too useful..

>>56414113
Is this a copypasta now? I remember it from the previous systemd shill thread.

systemd shills always keep talking about how fast systemd boots, but who keeps on restarting their servers all day long?

>>56412731
what I thought after I read it
do people that post this page even read it?

>>56418698
no one, but if they do every second counts

all you fucks wouldnt be arguing if you had just installed gentoo

>>56416439
This isn't india, pajeet. This is /g/.

>>56417026
There's a lot of fuckery, like logind not working if systemd isn't using pid 1 despite having no other requirement whatsoever on the init system. In practice, you can't ditch any components because the modules aren't standalone for shit and if they were, nothing would be depending on the systemd init (which everything does), which would greatly if not completely eleviate the problem.

>>56418658
This meme again. Take KDE for example.
>before
Supports 50 login systems.
>after systemd dependency
Supports 2 login systems. "look how little work we need to do now :^)"
No fucking shit if you stop supporting anything at all you have less code. On the other hand there is no actual, tangible loc difference between having used systemd or supporting those two systems manually.

>>56412234
You forgot your tripcode Harry Potter.

>>56412234
>simpler/readable timers
they're more flexible but simpler? having to create two files and adding shit to them is a ton more work than simply adding a line to a file