Unpopular opinions

> google "mac os is great for programming"

6,900,000 results

> google "mac os is bad for programming"

740,000 results

>Arch just works

>use ~amd64 globally
>replace gcc with clang
>the compile time optimization saves time in the long run

>>56304230
Nice tool for finding universal truth you got there

>>56304207
>Opinions you know are wrong, but you shill them on /g/ anyway.
How much do you get paid?

>C is a great programming language and the libraries are of perfect design.

>tfw, half of all programs I see use their own implementation of linked lists instead of array pointers with capacity

>>56304207
Name one thing that makes OS X bad as a programming platform

>>56304329
Obviously nothing but I shill Gentoo because it's fun and cool, and probably worth it in the long run, but it's not as bright as I claim it to be.

>>56304361
You have to do a lot of clicking through the settings and hacking on the UI to make it comfortable

>>56304387
don't you have to do so for every os

>>56304387
I use OS X on a daily basis, and I spend 90% of my time in the terminal. The only GUI applications I use is Chrome for lurking the 4chins and looking stuff up.

I don't know why you would knowingly limit yourself to the shitty UI only when you can control everything, system settings included, from the terminal???

>>56304394
On GNU/Linux there's mostly a supported way to do it. For Mac OS X it becomes hacky quickly, and eventually you have to comprise a lot more.

>>56304406
I don't know if you've played around with some nice tiling window managers, but typical setups like having 3 terminals in a space efficient way in one workspace, and being able to quickly switch between multiple workspace, is just not something OS X does.

>>56304433
>I don't know if you've played around with some nice tiling window managers
I have, I've used Linux for over 10 years too.

> but typical setups like having 3 terminals in a space efficient way in one workspace, and being able to quickly switch between multiple workspace, is just not something OS X does.
OS X has had workspaces since four versions ago.

>>56304474
>OS X has had workspaces since four versions ago.
You surely understand that's not really comparable as it takes 3 seconds of animations to switch from workspace 1 to 5.

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>>56304474
>>56304433
>>56304495

It also supports tiling windows next to each other now. For more complex terminal setups, I use iTerm2 which has tabs, vertical and horizontal windows.

Pic related

>You surely understand that's not really comparable as it takes 3 seconds of animations to switch from workspace 1 to 5.
I use control + left or right to switch, it takes less than half a second.

>>56304230
>6,900,000 results
>69

>>56304495
>You surely understand that's not really comparable as it takes 3 seconds of animations to switch from workspace 1 to 5.

Not him, but seeing how your original claim was that OS X is not suited for programmers i have to ask: How much code are you really going to be able to write in those 3 seconds?

I for one am quite happy with OS X workspaces. Since OS X 10.8 or 9 or when they first came, I no longer need to replace the OS X display manager with some convoluted X based hack and be unable to use native Cocoa apps in order to get multiple workspaces.

>>56304516
>It also supports tiling windows next to each other now. For more complex terminal setups, I use iTerm2 which has tabs, vertical and horizontal windows.

Yes sure, and use that full screen or hack the dock and the menubar away.

>I use control + left or right to switch, it takes less than half a second.

Instead of instant super+5 it's 5 * ctrl + right and waiting. You could probably hack that delay out of it. And download a macro App from the Store and configure it so you can use Command+5.
And disable the full screen animation too.
And use the terminal instead of Finder.
And update the coreutils through the third party package manager.

In the end, to have a great programming setup, you have to reverse the things that make OS X OS X, and hack the things that are natively supported on GNU/Linux distributions on it.

>>56304618
>How much code are you really going to be able to write in those 3 seconds?
3 seconds for every time you switch workspaces? That's obviously a huge pain, but you'll stop switching workspaces instead and use a less efficient approach.

>I for one am quite happy with OS X workspaces. Since OS X 10.8 or 9 or when they first came, I no longer need to replace the OS X display manager with some convoluted X based hack and be unable to use native Cocoa apps in order to get multiple workspaces.
Yes, so much this. It's the choice of horrible hacks to make it like native GNU/Linux, or stick with a workflow that's not more than mediocre for power users.

>>56304621
>Yes sure, and use that full screen or hack the dock and the menubar away.
What's wrong with fullscreen?

>Instead of instant super+5 it's 5 * ctrl + right and waiting. You could probably hack that delay out of it. And download a macro App from the Store and configure it so you can use Command+5.
I don't really need to, iTerm2 supports directly jumping to a specific window through cmd + number.

>And disable the full screen animation too.
Again, what's wrong with full screen?

>And use the terminal instead of Finder.
Everyone with NIX experience does this.

>And update the coreutils through the third party package manager.
There's no need to update the coreutils, the builtin ones are more than good enough, seeing how 70-80% of them are the exact same as you'll find on FreeBSD.

>In the end, to have a great programming setup, you have to reverse the things that make OS X OS X, and hack the things that are natively supported on GNU/Linux distributions on it.
The only thing I did was install iTerm2 because the default terminal emulator sucks ass (like gnome-terminal, xfce-terminal, konsole etc also do) and install xcode to get the entire programming environment with CLI tools and clang and the whole shebang.

I don't even use a third-party package manager because there is no need to except when dealing with GNU-specific stuff.

>>56304646
>3 seconds for every time you switch workspaces?
It takes less than half a second to browse workspace 1 through 5.

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>>56304230
Please avoid using the term “google” as a verb, meaning to search for something on the internet. “Google” is just the name of one particular search engine among others. We suggest to use the term “search the web” or (in some contexts) just “search”. Try to use a search engine that respects your privacy; DuckDuckGo claims not to track its users, although we cannot confirm.

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>>56304207
>Get downvoted
:^)

>>56304692
>implying you don't have reddit tab open

>>56304350
What the fuck.

>>56304618
>>56304621
>>56304433
>>56304387
I'm still waiting for an actual reason for why OS X is not suited for programmers.

>>56304646
>It's the choice of horrible hacks to make it like native GNU/Linux
Implying GNU/Linux isn't riddled with horrible hacks

zsh is better than bash

>>56304664
>because the default terminal emulator sucks
I think this is what it boils down to. (defending ctrl+arrow as vim user, really?)

Every default thing in OS X sucks ass, they're made for normies. The way to deal with it on OS X as power user is to port or mimic GNU/Linux behavior.

>>56304376
>probably worth it in the long run,

>>56304730
>all your arguments are invalid, where are your arguments?

>>56304741
On GNU/Linux you can have a customizable window manager, terminal emulator, and all command line utils, with their config files, from the native package manager. It's a different level.

>>56304811
>I think this is what it boils down to.
Are you implying that the default terminal emulator doesn't suck on all distros?

Do you really think that gnome-terminal, xfce-terminal or konsole or whatever the fuck you're using is actually good?

>defending ctrl+arrow as vim user, really?
I already told you I jump directly to the window.

>Every default thing in OS X sucks ass, they're made for normies.
m-m-muh secret club
>The way to deal with it on OS X as power user is to port or mimic GNU/Linux behavior.
Those are some hot opinions. No porting or mimicing is needed, OS X acts like any other NIX out of the fucking box.

You don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

>>56304361
There isn't, except there is no VS for C#, but I could as well use some bistro and call it a day.

>>56304725
Those where ini parser I was looking at, so it might not be that relevant, but still, parsing a file with 10k sections and each 100 options might take some time. As well as lookup.

>>56304829
>On GNU/Linux you can have a customizable window manager,
So does OS X, albeit not so customisable. But you can replace the cocoa one if you want, and use ANY X-based window manager.

I know people who run Gnome3 on their MBP.

Also, I thought your argument that it should work out of the box with minimal configuration required. If you need to spend time configuring everything, doesn't that contradict that?

>terminal emulator
So does OS X

>and all command line utils
So does OS X

>with their config files
So does OS X

>from the native package manager
So does OS X

Wait, you didn't know that OS X actually has a package manager? You should really educate yourself first.

https://developer.apple.com/legacy/library/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man1/pkgutil.1.html

You also have macports if you're more comfortable with a ports.

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>>56304829
>he actually uses the default configurations

>>56304837
>gnome-terminal, xfce-terminal or konsole
urxvt or st is where it's at

>I already told you I jump directly to the window.
Which brings up the workspace problem again.

>m-m-muh secret club
You're not defending their terminal, Finder, window manager, UI, or default tools, because they suck, but OS X is the shit!

>No porting or mimicing is needed, OS X acts like any other NIX out of the fucking box.
Except getting a package manager, an advanced terminal, a way to manage windows other than OS X's default, basically the entire workflow.

>>56304864
I wanted to reply seriously until you posted your link.

>>56304207
SSDs are the meme

>>56304878
Changing configurations is supported and endorsed.

Changing the window manager of OS X is not supported and not endorsed.

>>56304881
>urxvt or st is where it's at
And you need to install these after you've installed your distro of choice.

>Which brings up the workspace problem again.
What problem? I told you it solves your alleged "problem"

>You're not defending their terminal
No I'm not, just like I'm not defending gnome-terminal either.

>Finder
Finder is a lot more than a file explorer, anon. Finder + spotlight is a lot like gnome shell

>window manager, UI, or default tools, because they suck, but OS X is the shit!
I never said they suck, I said I like them.

Also, what "default tools" are you referring to? I told you, 70-80% of the coreutils are the exact same as you'd find on FreeBSD. I say exact as in they're literally the same.

>Except getting a package manager,
There's already a package manager. If you want your own, that's fine, but there is a built in one.

>an advanced terminal
You just admitted that you need to seperately install urxvt.

>a way to manage windows other than OS X's default, basically the entire workflow.
I just showed you a screenshot for fuck's sake....

You really are delusional.

>>56304896
>I wanted to reply seriously until you posted your link.
That's because the most recent documentation of pkgutil only exists in its man page.

>>56304915
>Changing the window manager of OS X is not supported and not endorsed.
>not supported
I guess that's why you can install Apple's official X11 window server implementation, Quartz, then?

>not endorsed.
Yes, because guess what, X11 sucks balls and Apple doesn't write UI that relies on it, just like Ubuntu switched to Mir and other Linux distros are moving to Wayland.

>>56304923
I'm not comparing OS X to Ubuntu, I'm comparing OS X with an optimal workflow versus GNU/Linux with an optimal workflow.

For OS X:
Either hack a window manager from GNU land into it or use iTerm's window switch which is subpar compared to a typical GNU/Linux WM setup.

>it has a package manager too
subpar

ITT
>lol you need to spend too much time configuring OSX in order to make it usable !!! ill just stick with my highly configurable arch instead instead of wasting time configuring anything

/g/ in a nutshell

>>56304990
I think the point is that you more have to fight the OS to do the configuration in one case and an the other, it's basically made for it.

>>56304984
>subpar
>subpar
How exactly? Name one thing wrong with jumping between terminal windows or a single thing wrong with Mac's default package manager?

Also, if you like your "optimal" package manager, what's wrong with macports? "Hurr durr it's third party"? Well, guess what, ALL Linux software is third-party because there is no centralised development.

>Yes, because guess what, X11 sucks balls and Apple doesn't write UI that relies on it, just like Ubuntu switched to Mir and other Linux distros are moving to Wayland.

There's WMs that make for a good programming workflow based on X11, they're a lot better fit for programming than OS X's default window manager.

>>56305010
>fight the OS
I don't fight the OS at all, this is something you've imagined.

>>56305030
>How exactly? Name one thing wrong with jumping between terminal windows or a single thing wrong with Mac's default package manager?


Jumping between 3 is fine, if you need 8 and a web browser you're going to need to switch workspaces, which obviously isn't great compared to typical GNU/Linux tiling WMs.

>package manager
Please

>>56305032
>m-muh tiling window managers
>m-muh X11
If X11 is so good, why is everyone abandoning it for Wayland?

Also
>tiling window managers are default
You can install i3 or openbox or fluxbox or whatever on OS X too if you want, but why would you?

>>56305051
>Jumping between 3 is fine, if you need 8 and a web browser you're going to need to switch workspaces,
I just told you, you can easily switch workspaces DIRECTLY by jumping to the specific window. iTerm2 numbers the windows, so by pressing cmd + number you go directly to that window.

>>56305058
Moving from a good WM based on X11 to a good WM based on Wayland is great. OS X's WM has nothing on that.

>You can install i3 or openbox or fluxbox or whatever on OS X too if you want, but why would you?
You can make it like GNU/Linux, and you will have a more efficient workflow. But it will remain hacky because it's based on OS X.

>>56305078
>But it will remain hacky because it's based on OS X.

Are you retarded? How will it be hacky any more than running i3 on FreeBSD for example?

>>56305074
Ok, we can dive as deep in this as you want.

You have iTerm open on workspace 1 and 3, and a browser at 5. How do you go to the browser?

Oh hey, you see the point.

>>56305098
Having an official repo vs not having an offical repo?

>>56305104
Pressing cmd + shift + c, which is an Automator script I made for launching/jumping to chrome.

Are you really saying that you don't have custom keybindings despite the fact that you keep touting OPTIMIZED WORKFLOW over and over again?

>>56305134
I say you keep hitting the limit of the not-so-advanced default OS X window manager.

>>56305121
How is the community in charge of maintaining macports any less """"official"""" than the community in charge of AUR?

>>56305152
i3 isn't in the AUR smartass

>>56305144
>OS X's own launcher configuration tool is a limitation of OS X

You're either retarded or trolling at this point

>>56305164
L-O-L

So i3 isn't """"official""" on Arch either then. Enjoy your kludgy hack.

>>56305167
No, keep getting up hacks to avoid having to use the window manager on a per-app basis, that's obviously not going to last.

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>>56304207
Leave

>>56305177
You don't know what the AUR is, do you?

>>56305144
>>56305203

>being able to configure the wm is a limitation of the wm

For fuck's sake, your main argument was that a tiling wm was configurable so you could optimize your workflow. OS X has a workflow configuration utility called Automator.

What kind of mental gymnastics do you need to perform to say that because that exists, the wm isn't configurable?

>per-app basis
I could also make keybindings for jumping directly to workspace X if I want, it's just that I don't because I have dynamic workspaces (I delete them and create new ones on demand rather than having a X by Y grid).

And yes, I have them on an per-app basis because I spend 90% of my time in two applications, iTerm2 and Chrome.

>>56305225
It's where i3 lives

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/i3-git/

>>56305242
If you could have a way to instantly switch to the workspace you wanted you didn't need the browser-specific macro. It's a workaround to compensate for the lack of customizability of the OS X window manager.

You need a whole lot of macro hacking to make your window manager work as well as a typical GNU/Linux manager does on default, and the GNU/Linux manager does have a way to do configuration.

>>56305264
As you can see on the wiki there's a version in the official repo. This is starting to get

>>56305295
>If you could have a way to instantly switch to the workspace you wanted
You can, make an automator script

>you didn't need the browser-specific macro
I do, because I never have the browser on the same workspace. I move it around

>It's a workaround to compensate for the lack of customizability of the OS X window manager.
I've explained to you four times now that you are wrong

>You need a whole lot of macro hacking to make your window manager work as well as a typical GNU/Linux manager does on default
If you use a tiling wm and you use the default configuration, you've completely missed the point of using a tiling wm in the first place.

>and the GNU/Linux manager does have a way to do configuration.
And so does OS X.

As a long time Linux user, I can say this. Apple controls the entire ecosystem. This means that any configuration one place propagates through the entire system. On Linux, you have a gazilleon different dependencies. If you use your wm of choice to make a keybinding, this might conflict with some keybinding that exists xbindkeys or a hundred different other places key bindings might exist. DEs add additional layers of clusterfucks.

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>>56305295
>If you could have a way to instantly switch to the workspace you wanted you didn't need the browser-specific macro.
Not that guy but you can, and it's built right into macOS. (or you could make an automator script for it, it'd be very easy) You've never used clearly macOS.

>>56304230
>majority is always right
Retard.

>>56305437
How about you find some reasons that OS X isn't great for programming rather than waste your time replying to an earlier post. I'm waiting.

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>all these people ITT saying you can't switch directly to a workspace

You can, you can also drag upwards with three fingers or press control + up and select the workspace directly

>>56305400
>>56305427
I understand that you can have functionality in the window manager based on Automator macros, but it's not justifying for me at all. No way that's on par, in terms of power, to actual program-specific configuration.

This seems like a case of "we haven't hit the limit yet!", not "we have an appropriate way to do this".

Let's move on to the next thing: having an indicator of what workspace you're on.

>>56305500
Reread my post, you don't need automator, you retard. It's built-into the system. Look at the screenshot the other anon and I provided.

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>>56305500
>I understand that you can have functionality in the window manager based on Automator macros
You don't need automator """macros""" to do it, see >>56305464 and >>56305427, the default configuration in macOS is to press control and some number

>having an indicator of what workspace you're on.
See pic, I made 28 workspaces just for you anon.

>>56305546
>>56305548
What if I told you GNU/Linux had a way to have a Window manager with keybindings for both switch to the left and right and going to a specific workspace and a workspace indicator that would also show on which workspaces there are windows, and hjkl bindings for switching so you don't have to move your hand, and no animations for switching between workspaces, all out of the box? Would that appeal to you?

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>>56305594
All "out of the box" means is that a linux distribution was preconfigured to match your tastes. That's it, there is no default really since everything is third-party in shitnux. You can configure macOS to do all of that, and it'd take minutes. It'd still be much faster than setting up a linux distro, and a lot less shitty too.

>>56305594
>What if I told you GNU/Linux had a way to have a Window manager with keybindings for both switch to the left and right and going to a specific workspace and a workspace indicator that would also show on which workspaces there are windows,
I'm pretty content with OS X's mission control, which I can launch with whatever keybinding I want

> and hjkl bindings for switching so you don't have to move your hand
This is where automator scripts come in, anon. Not only can I make my own keybindings (like I did with mission control), I can also create more advanced workflows and batch operations.

For example, I'm currently working on two different projects. Using a keybinding, I can have OS X create three new workspaces, open up terminals, go to the correct paths, even launch programs ***in*** the terminal (like vim) with the most recent source files and launch chrome with the API documentation.

Context switching between those two projects is done with a simple keypress.

Honestly, I don't see how any WM on Linux could match that.

>>56304687
It's in the oxford dictionary, calm your autism.
>what is colloquialism

>>56305646
>You can configure macOS to do all of that
Wouldn't count on it

>>56305646
It strikes me that you think OS X does automation better than GNU/Linux. That's so false.

>even launch programs ***in*** the terminal
You should try Linux once

>>56305733
>Wouldn't count on it
It's painfully obvious that you've never used OS X

>It strikes me that you think OS X does automation better than GNU/Linux. That's so false.
It does.

Show me your workflow automation script that opens up two new workspaces and places windows exactly where you want them and also launches your previously suspended terminal IDE and launches your webbrowser with the online API documentation.

If you need to write a bunch of code to do this, you're doing it wrong.

>You should try Linux once
As I said, I've used Linux for over 10 years.

>>56305733
Applescript/Automator have no equivalent in Linux. There are things you can automate in OS X (like gui-scripting for example) that you can't do in shitnux, but almost every-thing you can automate in shitnux you can in OS X since it has the same tools you'd likely be using. So yeas, it DOES do automation better. And it's not close.

>>56305776
Err, meant terminal session, not IDE. In case you don't know, iTerm2 supports suspending sessions and launching them at a later point.

>>56305733
Do you think bash scripting is something only Linux does? You do know that bash is the default shell on all UNIX and NIX variants, right? macOS included.

>>56304230

Mac being UNIX based does make a lot of early CS students swear by it.

Experienced programmers realize that there's really no fucking difference once you stop using hand holding IDEs.

>>56305776
Have a look
http://herbstluftwm.org/herbstluftwm.html

Scripting is at the very core of Linux, in 10 years you could've understood that.

>>56305788
>>56305818
I know you can do scripting, but don't tell me the automation of OS X's default window manager is on par with that of GNU/Linux WMs.

>>56305826
So what you're saying is that I not only need to use some custom WM I've never heard about before, I also need to write 1200 lines of code and configuration to script something I can do in OS X by just opening windows the way I like them and clone the current state and then tweak it slightly in order to make it open up a new workspace and relaunch suspended iTerm2 sessions?

>>56305843
See >>56305776

Show me the script that does the same as I described.

>>56305826
What terminal emulator do you use that supports suspending sessions?

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>>56305843
Kek, what the other anon described in his workflow is way more impressive than a measly window TWM that every OS has at this point. Sorry to break it to you but did you think TWMs were exclusive to shitnux?

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>>56304207
>>ITT reasons why Microsoft is the best for programmers.

We don't spend my day pretending I can configure shit to get tiny boots to "efficiency" so we're just over here actually getting shit done.

Pic related should help you retards.

>>56305859
It's not that hard, and more importantly, much more powerful.

Say OS X Automator has about 10% of the features of what it can do with its window manager.

>>56305868
See >>56305826

>>56305896
>It's not that hard, and more importantly, much more powerful.

You keep saying this, but you have yet to post proof that you can do exactly what I'm describing.

Also, see >>56305883

>>56305896
>show me the script
>"hurr durr here's the link to the manpage"
That's not the script. And I even gave you the benefits of the doubt assuming that you can control launching workspaces and specific windows within workspaces (although I don't see any indications of the latter in the man page), but if you need to write 1200 lines of code to do this, it's not impressive at all.

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>>56305896
You can compile and run shitnux window managers on OS X.

>>56305888

Efficiency isn't just about time, and that graph only applies to programs used by a small crowd of people or the developer themself. When you make something for mass production, you're saving multiple people time that adds up to more than what you spent, and uses less resources.

>>56305915
Do you really want to spell it out for you?

Bind a key to spawn a script
In that script do the things you want e.g.

 st vim

How is that a problem?

>>56305949
According to him, that doesn't count for some reason.

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>>56304207
But that's not wrong. I don't even have a Mac and I know that it's pretty okay for programming with a little help because of its Unix nature.

>>56305963
And you think that functionality is limited to linux? So far all you've done is show how inferior linux is when it comes to scripting, you're making your fellow zealots sad.

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>Turbo austists fighting over a TWM and scripting.
Truly pathetic.

>>56304495
>as it takes 3 seconds of animations to switch from workspace 1 to 5.
Nope.

>>56305984
You ask me to do basic scripting that works on OS X and now you tell that the basic scripting works on OS X too? Are you retarded?

Let's turn the tables.
Rotate the windows on your current workspace clockwise.
For me it's

herbstclient rotate

.

>>56306013
>Rotate the windows on your current workspace clockwise.
What did he mean by this?

>>56306036

rotate
Rotates the layout on the focused tag counterclockwise by 90 degrees. This only manipulates the alignment of frames, not the content of them.

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>>56306013
That wasn't me asking, cucold. You have to realize that there are more than 2 people in this thread, tard.

I don't have that bound, but for me it'd be

bind KEY:ctrl chain push up | push right | push down | push left

No try again, this time with something that can only be done in shitnux

>>56306055
So you can rotate the boxes...why?

I'm using my shell scripts for installing from scratch to a fully-fledged working environment with my dotfiles and so forth for Gentoo, FreeBSD and Debian minimal. I install only what I need. Particularly in Gentoo I'm also configuring a kernel and use-flags to prevent bloating. I don't bother about regular updates and hardware upgrades as a consequence.

I don't understand what OSX gives except of the obligatory default candy interface, loads of redundant bells and whistles, a dependency to Apple's restrictions and whims of the company, some normie shit like sync with iPhones and iCloud, the circumcised core utils and package management, AppleScript which can't be substituted by universal sh script.

>>56305963
>Do you really want to spell it out for you?

Yes

Here's what happens on OS X when I press control + shift + P and then 1

OS X creates two new workspaces
It opens two iTerm2 windows in the first one, both windows are tiling vertically.

The rightmost of those windows has a horizontal split pane. In the leftmost window, OS X relaunches a suspended iTerm2 session with two tabs, the first has vim running and the second has the compilation output from last compilation.

In the rightmost top pane, OS X launches irssi, in the bottom pane it does "cd /path/to/project"

In the other workspace, it launches a new chrome window with three tabs, the first tab goes to CUDA 8 API documentation, the second tab goes to Nvidia's GPUDirect RDMA documentation and the third tab has a third-party API up.

Want to know how I created that script?
I went into Automator workflow creator and copied the state of those two workspaces, and then I tweaked it by making it always create two new workspaces instead of launching them in the current workspace (since I use workspaces dynamically instead of having dedicated ones) and I had to alter the command for the terminal session restore because bash would fuck up the color settings.

Now please tell me, how is having to type 1200 lines of herbstclient <do X> in ANY way superior to that?

You haven't even answered what terminal you use that supports suspending and resuming sessions?

>>56306013
See above

>>56306087
Holy shit, you use shell scripts and dotfiles? Are you you a you a you hacker?

The only reason to use OSX if you're developing for Apple devices. As well as Windows.

>>56304615
hahaxd

>>56306087
>circumcised core utils
80% of OS X's core utils are FreeBSD ones. The remaining 20% are GNU ones. Go fuck yourself.

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>>56306105

>>56306105
I develop for Linux servers on my MBP. Triggered yet?

POSIX is POSIX no matter where you run it.

>>56306102
I wrote once the scripts for installing and configuring my environment and using them every time when I need to install my system, no gui, clicks and other shit every time.

>>56304730
>The Apple folks were quite interested in my experience with regard to bit rot (aging data silently losing integrity) and other device errors. I’ve seen many instances where devices raised no error but ZFS (correctly) detected corrupted data.

>>>>Apple has some of the most stringent device qualification tests for its vendors; I trust that they really do procure the best components.

>Apple engineers I spoke with claimed that bit rot was not a problem for users of their devices, but if your software can’t detect errors then you have no idea how your devices really perform in the field. ZFS has found data corruption on multi-million dollar storage arrays; I would be surprised if it didn’t find errors coming from TLC (i.e. the cheapest) NAND chips in some of Apple’s devices. Recall the (fairly) recent brouhaha regarding storage problems in the high capacity iPhone 6. At least some of Apple’s devices have been imperfect.

http://dtrace.org/blogs/ahl/2016/06/19/apfs-part5/

inb4 /g/ is more knowledgable than expert veteran computer engineer who worked at almost ALL the major tech companies of the past 30 years

>>56305953
>argument over personalization of systems
>mass production
You're an idiot.

>>56306138
>ZFS

ZFS matters for storage servers, not for programmers using a laptop.

>>56306138
>>56306159
But ironically, dtrace is another example of something both BSD and OS X have that has no REAL** equivalent in the Linux world.

** yes there are some things that try to do the same, but they're just broken and not so flexible

>>56306156

>what are servers and enterprise software

You never specified that it was personal.

>>56306193
Your level of autism is astounding.

>>56306193
We're literally discussing how to optimise and configure workflows. Only someone using Visual Studio would think that there is only One Way[tm] of working on software projects.

>>56306159
zfs doesn't have journaling, it's bad for desktops, because it rollbacks all transactions and loses data. I had problems with zsh in comparison to godlike ext4 or even shit-tier hfs plus.

>>56306188
>>56306159
I don't know, I've just copy-pasted this from rebeccablacktech. I thought it may be interesting to someone else.

>>56306062
Yeah, close enough.

Do rules, or hooks.
Or show a more advanced workspace indicator than just a number.

>>56306094
That's not that many commands, just put the right ones in the autostart. Most things are clearly just spawn commands with some arguments. Why do you think this is a complicated thing?

>>56306224
It is very interesting, but doesn't really relate to this discussion.

>>56306222
ZFS is also bad for SSDs because it does a lot of writes, which consumer SSDs can't really handle over an extended period of time.

>>56306211

Yes, that stuff is important for servers and enterprise software.

>>56306203

Not sure what you're getting at. I guess you just aren't familiar with multiple types of programming.

>>56306248
I meant to say "have a nice discussion, I'll lurk meanwhile"

>>56306245
>That's not that many commands, just put the right ones in the autostart. Most things are clearly just spawn commands with some arguments. Why do you think this is a complicated thing?
I'm not saying it's complicated, I'm just saying that you have yet to
1) show me a non-shit terminal-emulator on Linux that supports suspending and restoring sessions without having to rely on screen or tmux hacking

and

2) how many lines of commands you would have to write to do something simular

Also, one of your earlier arguments was that you shouldn't have to rely on shitty third-party software. You're saying that I need to replace my WM entirely to use something I've never even heard about before, which has a steep learning curve and requires me to discard all my existing i3 configurations and keybindings and spend 2 weeks doing everything from scratch.

>>56304207
upboated

>>56306263
>Yes, that stuff is important for servers and enterprise software.
Do you run your programming environment on servers? Do you run macOS on your servers?

>>56306132
POSIX is minimal environment to operate the machine, it doesn't have a lot of tools which are usually OTB in Linux distros or in their official repos. For example POSIX has vi but has not vim or emacs and so forth. I don't want to blame your queer taste in the choice of development platform, it's your preference you are free even to eat shit from your pants if you so much like it. But I'm think that OS X is a bad system for techie, it's more for artistic girls and gays.

>>56306263
can you link your other posts in this thread because/adopt a trip so I can know to ignore you going forward? You're obviously having a different discussion than everyone else.

>>56306336
>But I'm think that OS X is a bad system for techie, it's more for artistic girls and gays.
Then you are retarded.

OS X is basically the consumer version of FreeBSD.

>>56306314
You'd split the responsibility and use tmux + st complying with UNIX philosophy. (Mac is UNIX too, right?)

Opening a browser page and terminal with cd are clearly easy one liners.

If you run i3 you're supporting my argument. I'm arguing the Mac default WM sucks arse.

>>56306330

You seem to misunderstand. Maybe I should have been more detailed.

I'm talking about developing server operating systems, server-side programs, and specialty software for large scale companies and the DoD.

>>56306124
It's only a matter of time before office becomes natively available for linux

>>56306366
>You'd split the responsibility and use tmux + st complying with UNIX philosophy. (Mac is UNIX too, right?)
Sounds extremely hacky and very non-unixy, using multiple different tools to achieve one thing supported out of the box in other terminal emulators.

>Opening a browser page and terminal with cd are clearly easy one liners.
Yes they are, but you still need to type it.

>If you run i3 you're supporting my argument. I'm arguing the Mac default WM sucks arse.
I'm running i3 on my Linux workstation, I'm running vanilla OS X on my MBP.

>>56306355

Those discussion posts are outside of the reply chain.

Yes, I am indeed discussing something unrelated to posts not in the chain and only using factors within the reply chain that lead directly to the OP. I have a feeling you read my post with a discussion you're having with someone else in mind and didn't notice that this never links to that discussion.

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Ubuntu's unity desktop is great. Better than all the rest... exept maybe Gnome

>>56306393
I seriously doubt that. There's no good business reason for it.

>>56306359
They're very much different. FreeBSD doesn't have microkernel architecture, self-contained packages. FreeBSD it's just another unix-like system, it even has sh by default because bash is GNU and a linuxism. Mac OS is more similar to Solaris or so. My opinion OSX is less flexible than *BSD or Linux distros and becomes more and more restricted by Apple.

>>56306407
Automator is limited compared to command line arguments and shell scripts, naturally.

By suspending, don't you just mean ctrl+z?

>>56306433
Exactly, YOU are having a discussion that only you are having. Please identify yourself clearly in this thread so I can filter you.

>>56306448
Office 365 will work in all browsers with normal HTML5 extensions. There is no reason why this wouldn't just automatically work on Linux too.

>>56306460
>Automator is limited compared to command line arguments and shell scripts, naturally.
Automator is just a graphical front-end to AppleScript, which is, surprise surprise, a scripting language.

>By suspending, don't you just mean ctrl+z?
No, that is putting a job in the background. Not the same at all.

>>56306466
I bet there's something that's built in that breaks it for *nix.

>>56306463

>reply to post that is a direct reply to the OP
>get yelled at for not talking about unrelated posts from a seperate discussion instead

No wonder most of /g/ can't comprehend pointers.

>>56306492
You should check out suckless.org. Much of the appeal of UNIX is in its simplicity.

>>56306493

Mac OS is literally unix with some tighter restrictions and preloaded features/settings. So, it should be fine.

>>56306502
You created a separate discussion by going off on a tangent on your own. That you replied to a reply to the OP does not mean that you are joining in another discussion, you created another, off-topic conversation that literally no one else is participating in.

Again, your autism is astounding.

>>56306536
No, I understand that. I also understand that it's in neither Microsoft nor Apple's interests to allow Office to run natively in *nix. They'll implement something, figure out some way to keep it from happening.

>>56304838

>no VS for C#

>What is Mono Develop?

>>56306561
>it's in Microsoft's interest to not allow Office to run on other platforms
Quite the contrary, anon. The more people who use it, the more Satya Nutella can bathe in his sweet subscription money.

>>56306540

Anon, I would have never even come back here if I hadn't got a notification that I was replied to. I wasn't going to read an entire thread to see if the discussion was no longer about the main topic and had narrowed down to a specific element. I replied to someone that made a post. My reply was relevant to that post.

So again, I'm going to look at other threads as I did before, but I'll come back to explain this more if you still need me to. It was never my intention to derail into a lengthy discussion about your personal view of how an internet board should operate. If you don't want a plant to grow, don't water it. You have almost just as many posts in this chain as I do, and if what's irritating you is that this chain exists, then don't add more links to it.

>non-ironically using a window manager named "Herbst Luftwaffe"

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>>56304207
idk..

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>>56304286
LMAO