Are you a systemd cuck?

>>56298817
Is gentoo the only distro that isn't completely compromised by this nigger dick slurper.

>he doesn't want unification between his system objects and their dependencies

It's not that systemd sucks, linux sucks.
We need a new OS that isn't a 50 year old pile of hacks.

>>56298970
Void Linux uses runit
Archbang uses OpenRC
Devuan is Debian but with runit or OpenRC
Slackware still uses sysvinit

>>56299183
>all Literally Who distros nobody uses
wow you sure showed him

Can anybody explain what is this "systemd is bad" meme?

>>56299187
Kek what, slackware is more used than gentoo though :&)

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>>56299204

systemd is NSA-inside / GCHQ-inside. If you use systemd, you're owned.

>>56299275

:^)

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>insufficent space

>>56299204
It's bloat and bloat is automatically bad.

>>56299204
It's basically autism. There is nothing else that needs to be said.

>>56299204
old school unix autists experience extreme aversion to change but are too lazy to better their own systems so they just belittle anyone who constructs new, useful and necessary FOSS software to replace their archaic implementations.

So what's the big deal with systemd

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>long time Solaris user
>comes over to Linux
>sees a ton of hate over systemd

OpenRC is shit.

I don't... what??

>>56298817
Running Debian with SysVinit
just werks

>>56299173
you have Windows

Systemd is a fucking nightmare

http://suckless.org/sucks/systemd

Especially implementations like nspawn, DNS, networking in PID1

If you look at this init from a distance you can begin to even see how it can be a deliberate effort to damage the security of the operating system

Systemd's push into critical parts of the OS is alarming.

Systemd is very much trying to make itself an irremovable part of modern GNU/Linux with its development style of absorbing other OS elements. As it becomes more bloated it will continue to become harder to audit and control what is running on one's machine.
In the end, all the distros that adopted this will be dealing with volatile high velocity corporate code running critical parts of their OS.

The FSF should say something before it's too late.

>>56298817
I'm kinda upset that Arch decided to adopt systemdick, but hey, you can only roll with the times.

>>56299699
because Arch was supposed to completely match your contrarian lifestyle right

>>56299662
Sounds like it's a deliberate push to turn the most mainstream GNU/Linux distros into literally Windows, in the sense that it's so fucking overly bloated, convoluted and hacked together with gum, that nobody including their very own developers know how it actually truly functions, just that it does.

>>56299728
>contrarian

Nigger what? Arch is number 10 on distrowatch.com in terms of popularity and you call it contrarian? Are you fucking stupid?

Also nice way to assume. I only used Arch for a while and have hopped through many different distros. I juts found that I liked Arch the best out of all of them, pre-systemd implement of course.

>>56299173
All os suck. But once linux gets wayland sorted out at least it will finally be on par with osx as a desktop os.

>>56299735
>convoluted and hacked together with gum, that nobody including their very own developers know how it actually truly functions, just that it does.
yes and once you introduce this level of complexity it means serious bugs. Huge attack surface area that is constantly being rehacked together. I don't want to be the conspiritard but this seems too fucking good not to be an intentional action by RH to gain control of mainstream distros for its interests. RH might also share interest with other parties in doing this

>>56299812
>I don't want to be the conspiritard

Well you should. It's good to do so. Always look at the names, and follow the money. Remember what GaymerGayte discovered. Bill Gates is neck deep into the implementation of Common Core and the inevitable dumbing down of the coming generations.

I was reading the archive, and some anons were saying Lennart will eventually suffer the same fate as Appelbaum. Do you think this is true?

I mean, who wouldn't want the juicy task of developing systemd with him out of the way?

I haven't looked into it very much but does parabola arch use systemd? I know systemd is considered libre so I assume it does...

>>56299812

Exactly, RH is NSA: The Company. And Poettering bends over to take the NSA right up his German-cuck asshole.

>>56299841

You don't need to get him out the way, he's the one bending over backwards to put backdoors in systemd.

If systemd is FOSS then there's no problem. What's that you say, you can't audit all that code? Then you need to pick one: the entire enterprise of FOSS as anything other than a meme OR you're just being a sheep autist trying to be a nix edge lord with this garbage

Sage

Systemd is open so no one can hide anything in it. You autists are just being autismomaximus.

>>56299896
For all a man could bend over, I think there's still a part of him that tries to hold onto some sliver of ethical practice. I mean, they can threaten him or whatever, but having your own man inside would be much better.

For all "SJW" those guys could be, they're still coders first, and their commitment is to the community, not to the government shills.

(Although, I find it easier and easier to believe Appelbaum was a fed all this time, like Weev said.)

>>56299204
Systemd breakdown:
>10% good ideas (like auto service restart upon failure)
>10% downright awful ideas
>80% shit nobody asked for

>>56299910
memes

>>56299917
>For all "SJW" those guys could be, they're still coders first, and their commitment is to the community, not to the government shills.

I don't think you understand an SJW then. They are loyal to their tribe first, everybody else second. Unless you're conflating your average liberal to a SJW in which case you may be right.

>>56299830
>>56299877

I'm telling you, there are too many things that point to this being a systemized takeover of relevant GNU/Linux distros:

-First systemd fragmented the GNU/Linux dev community by making it a situation of either you are with or against us. Now all the developers are too far into developing for a systemd specific system to work on anything else. Systemd in this way has gained a grasp on the dev community and made two groups of distros: new era systemd, and old era specialized, hobbyist non systemd that will fade into obscurity

-systemd continues to absorb critical OS elements into its function (it continues growing in lines of code and complexity meaning the attack surface continues growing), This essentially means that very subtly placed bugs can be exploited and the systemd devs will never have to take responsibility for them if they were order to be planted. It also ofcourse means that unintentional bugs will happen that will have grave consequences for systemd based operating systems due to all the critical functions of systemd.
-systemd is killing off auditability. The code moves too fast and is too large. It's very expensive and difficult to follow its iterations.
-there reasons for having security holes in an OS that runs the server world (along with other important markets) is pretty obvious

This shit is pretty scary when you start putting the pieces together

>>56299910
>>56299905
Weren't there already a few occurences of people trying to insert backdoors and bugs into the linux kernel? I mean, imagine if you could insert a tiny bug like Heartbleed, and keep that knowledge all to yourself, for 10 years. It would be catastrophic when it got out.
At least I think so.

>>56299935
They went all out on Appelbaum, and he was one of their most outspoken supporters. I'm pretty sure the same could happen to any other person of interest in the community, at the blink of an eye. Like the Soros hacks made blatantly clear, people are loyal to money, above all else.

>>56299905
>>56299910
wrong
can tell you've never written anything

code complexity and how quickly it changes over time are critical to its security

nasty things can be put into systemd that are very difficult to find because:
-it's too large
-it's too complex

auditing costs time and money. auditing a fucking init system of systemd like velocity and size is not checking over your 30 LOC hello world

>>56299943
>es of people trying to insert backdoors and bugs into the linux kernel?
they literally came to Torvalds and asked him
He has spoken about it

>>56299976
Haven't kept up with Torvalds for a long time now, but how is he these days?

Still based and telling people to fuck off?

>>56299976
I mean "stealthly". Looking at lkvm, it seems it happened 2 or 3 times in the past. A piece of obfuscated code here, another one there... If Linus and the top guys weren't so autismal (in a good sense) about auditing the code, I'm not sure someone else in their place would have caught those.

The thing with a bug like Heartbleed is that it's a much more ingenious approach, since you could relegate it to human error, instead of malicious intent. And even so, an attacker could make it so only him would know how to activate this system-critical bug. Keep this bug hidden for a few years and it'll be seen as legacy code by then.

>>56299991
He'll never change.

>>56300030
>>56300019
He's in his 50's now, isn't he?

I think he should at this point begin looking at the option of finding a successor that will completely carry on his legacy of autism so that Linux doesn't fall into evil hands.

>>56299936
tl;dr
how to insert a BD into open code:

1. Add "feature" that will become extremely large and complex
2. Develop a strategy to have everyone contribute to the new feature to keep it relevant in the market you are interested in
3. Exploit the new feature by either intentionally adding bugs or finding unintentional bugs that are numerous due to code size and complexity
(this will be hard to trace back because they're bugs AKA mistakes AKA no one can be blamed)

>>56300065
That's what I meant. Bugs can be exploited just as well as backdoors, but the former have the advantage of being relegated as mistakes, while the latter are easily identified as intentional.

>>56300100
yeah, you're right. It's exactly what happened with heartbleed. Really nasty trick

>>56300196
>>56300065
There's already many videos about how backdooring of open source goes on:

https://youtu.be/3jQoAYRKqhg

Watch this and it goes from lulz to wait, what that's actually happening.

>>56299204
Systemd is supposed to be an init system, but instead also manages networks, logging (in a binary format, not a text format), devices, logins, and now the fucking sudo command.

tl;dr it slowly snowballs, taking up more and more features than it needs to. It's the opposite of the Linux mindset, becoming a big monolithic shit thing.

>>56299699
Void Linux takes over its intent without Systemd.

>>56300236
This reminds me when systemd was crammed into embedded routers and things, and its inclusion in projects like GenIVI and Tizen.

None of systemd's watchdog services are needed, s6, nosh, even runit provide those features but the insanity complexity of systemd was crammed in for obvious reasons (Operation Orchestra)

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hey guise what's going on in this thread

USE="-systemd"

>>56300236
is this actually confirmed to be a strategy used by the nsa? ofc with the budget available to the agency it seems obvious, also it would make a lot of sense to target complicated low level software, bloat it to make it unmaintainable and then get some backdoors in. this is scary.

>>56300789
as time goes on you'll see more dependencies further down, e.g. logind for plasma 5

>>56300822
Wouldn't something like that still cause dependency conflicts, making it easily noticeable? I have "-kde" and "-gnome" also.

Fuck it, here's my global use flags:

USE="mmx sse sse2 X xft jpeg png apng alsa ao cdr dvd efi efiemu extraengine multilib
     nvidia opencl pcsc-lite pkcs11 pulseaudio smartcard thunar usb opengl flac mp3 opus mp4
     unicode icu pdf sound udev ncurses bash-completion dbus acpi consolekit gtk gtk2 gtk+
     -bluetooth -cups -gnome -kde -ldap -qt -qt4 -qt5 -systemd -wifi"

>>56299275
>xD no argument
>>56299327
>xD no argument
>>56299342
>xD no argument
>>56299384
/thread

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>>56300845
>smartcard
wat

>>56300866
armyfag

>>56300820
The whole talk was the FreeBSD guy was doing a thought experiment "How could I sabotage open source, but without spending much money and without a paper trail or special authorizations" then proceeds to give examples he's found that fit his proposed strategy of sabotaging consensus and standards.

Likely yes, they are doing this. You can read Dj Bernsteins posts on the Crypto Working Group IETF list too to see him spotting all kinds of NSA/GCHQ shilled type bogus standards and possible backdoors. He too wrote an article on how to sabotage called ""How to manipulate curve standards: a white paper for the black hat." which details the bullshit at the IETF that's been going on for a decade.

>>56300866
for SD card multireader, duh

>>56300889
oops, djb slides
https://cr.yp.to/talks/2015.05.08/slides-djb-20150508-4x3.pdf

Entire talk on how standards/protocols get manipulated and backdoored often for little money.

systemd is pretty great

init scripts are a horrible experience.

I don't care if systemd is taking over my networking, it works quite well honestly. I have it using dhcp on the WAN and it serves as the forwarder for BIND which serves the LAN. the best part is it also takes into consideration the local hosts file so I can define all local hosts and do some DNS poisoning to block adverts.

systemd is pretty sweet. I think the best thing it replaced was chron... and init scripts fucking backwards hacks of distro-specific bullshit.

>>56301001
As far as (surface) functionality goes, it serves its purpose, however many people reject systemd for a bunch of other reasons outlined itt.

It's also a great generation fracture. People growing up in the early days and who were accustomed to the init scripts were extremely opposed to adopting systemd, trying to "fix something that isn't broken" in their views. Meanwhile newcomers come in, adopt the new way without known the old (or very little of it) and say whatever, it works.

I would go into more /pol/ territory here, but I don't want to get shouted down.

Just stop, Microsoft. I know you're mad that systemd has made GNU leapfrog even farther ahead of your crappy stolen/bought pieced together by retarded monkeys OS, but this is just pathetic posturing.

Report paid MS troll threads
Do not reply to paid MS troll threads
Message 4chan admins about MS troll threads taking over /g/

>>56301045

The /pol/ territory interests me, go right ahead.

>Not wanting a consistent userland like the BSDs

>>56301058
A reminder that every time I post this type of post, regardless of popularity, the thread dies.

It's almost like Microsoft is afraid someone might find out and stops the paid shilling.

Seriously, MESSAGE 4CHAN ADMINS. This invasion of /g/ has to stop. Instances like this is PROOF that I am correct (and I've been told by Microsoft employees that this shit happens all the time, I used to work with them on a project).

It's over, Microsoft. Give it up. You're finished. There's no shame taking your billions and closing up shop today way, way, WAY ahead. None at all. You've lost. Bye.

>>56301065
Well I don't want to write an entire thesis on the topic, so I'll try to keep it as tl;dr as possible. Also bear in mind that I'm no expert on this (these) matter(s), just reporting my observations and connections.

But basically it seems that the whole systemd issue (as it deservedly should be called given the fracturing damage it has done to much of the GNU/Linux community) is but a single issue being pushed deliberately by unknown (or unconfirmed, being the better word to use here) entities in order to deliberately divide and conquer the F(L)OSS community and weaken it to the point that it can taken over completely or at the very least given an inside way in to dismantle everything from within.

Many of these tactics being deployed are but modified versions of the tactics being deployed on image boards (hell even to subreddits as well) in order to demoralize, divide, infiltrate and ultimately destroy from within. This is where it starts to go more into /pol/ territory.

These tactics are tactics used in the process of Subversion (this is the key word you want to hold onto). To understand what I mean by "tactics", you should look up a man called Yuri Bezmenov and his lectures on Subversion. Bezmenov is a Former KGB defector who describes how the Soviet Union and the KGB infiltrated the Western world in order to spread Communism and its ideals from within without most people knowing (eventually turning the Marxist ideals into the modern day SJW you will find all across your University Campuses and especially within the Tech industry, you know which ones I'm talking about).

>>56301277
Now how does all this relate to systemd? Go back to the word subversion and understand what it means and entails. That is what systemd is. An attempt to subvert the GNU/Linux system. On the surface it seems like a practical solution to fix many problems that the system has (society), and slowly it creeps in getting larger and larger and and taking control of more and more critical functions to the point that it's overtaken the entire system and can't be removed easily (Politicians and political figures). Eventually the system is subverted and no longer what it once was, control too far to be removed without killing the host.

This is the general scheme of the systemd issue. Fortunately another anon(s) has pointed out the other, more specific problems of systemd, the technical ones here

>>56299812
>>56299936
>>56299966
>>56299662

Believe me. This is no accident. The implementation and integration of systemd is being done on purpose by people we don't know (yet) for reasons we also don't know (yet), though we can speculate and speculate accurately at that.

GNU/Linux is a free system that gives the user total control and freedom to do as they want. This is directly against the vision of people like Gates, Cook/Nadella, Zuckerberg, and many others in the tech elite (and other economic sectors I might add) want. They want users to be restricted in THEIR environment, under THEIR rules so the users are only left with the options of THEIR choosing.

GNU/Linux is literally the exception to their rule and they won't have it. So they will have it subverted and taken over.

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>>56301220
>actually believing that your shitposts could stop or even make a dent on Microsoft

Dude, I loathe the fuckers like they've killed and fucked my mom in that specific order but you must be super deluded.

>>56301220

>a topic about systemd is a Microsoft shill thread.

Nice try Lennart Poettering. Get offline and go suck your nigger boyfriend's dick.

>>56300594
void is irrelevant

>>56301277

I'm fully aware of Yuri Bezmenov and the tactics he talked about. I never thought about them being applied in a technological context, but I don't see why not. You could be on to something here anon.

>>56300789
give it a few more years and you will be stuck on a cob webbed system

systemd has fragmented the dev community horribly

>>56301342
Most Linuxses are irrelevant.

Why move the goalposts? It's exactly what you want.

>>56300845
pls hlp with smartcards

I want some programmable ones and it looked like anything compliant to ISO7816 was supposed to work however the SLE4443 models can't be read in GNU/Linux
What am I doing wrong?

>>56301345
You didn't think they could applied to a technological context?

Just look at Faceberg. Do you remember what facebook was like when it first began? Do you remember what it was like 5 years later? And 5 years later after that?

Every subsequent year more user information was requested, more user information was collected, more user information was analyzed, and more user information was made public. And everybody agreed to it.

Every user on Facebook was subverted without realizing it. They give all the details of their life willingly to complete strangers and they believe this to be good. It never was implemented in one giant leap. It was slowly crept in, and people think it's normal. This is the process of subversion.

Facebook is not the only one guilty of this anon. It's everywhere.

Let me ask you this, do you think that "figures" like Anita Sarkeesian (however the fuck you spell that) and Zoe Quinn (aka Chelsea von Valkenberg) got speaking slots at the fucking UN to talk about "online harassment" and "girl code" was a fluke? Hell the fuck no.

They were and are insiders or at the very least useful idiots in order to normalize the destruction of the tech sector as we know it, or knew it I should say.

>>56301384
Not sure which card readers even work anymore, but I've got an SCR3310 that works under GNU/Linux.

>>56301427
I have a PCI-express 54 card reader that works fine but I can't find the right model of programmable cards for it

It's surprisingly difficult to locate documentation on card compatibility

I guess I should ask the libccid people

>>56300575
The "do one thing and do it well" is a unix mindset, not a linux one you fuckwit.

>>56301454
Which PKCS#11 lib are you using? I'm using CACKey but it probably won't work for you since it only supports DoD CACs.

>>56299662
>>56299735
>>56299812
this, this, and fucking this

>>56301466
"Have lots of modular parts and replace what you don't like" is a Linux mindset though

It's becoming very difficult to replace systemd because it's becoming a hard requirement of tons of shit (such as udev or KDE Plasma)

>>56299187
>most popular distro
>Literally Who
Retard.

>>56300845
> udev pulseaudio dbus consolekit
You might as well start using systemd at that point...

I actually like systemd and pulseaudio

not a big fan of journald, it has caused performance issues on some of our most busy servers at work, but it is easily switched out with syslog alternatives again.

pulseaudio is just great for desktops in my opinion, i like being able to RTP stream to remote speakers on remote systems, i like having individual stream controls, i like being able to apply arbitrary ladspa filters like DRC and such (which is so easily achieved on windows), the API for programmers makes it simple to enumerate and use sinks.

pulseaudio seems well architectured, well designed, and really does feel like it has been the final word in the preceding decades of linux desktop audio mess.

>>56301467
>Which PKCS#11 lib are you using?
That's a good question. Thanks for the input. I will have to learn about the internal lib options and see how it affects my situation. I just kind of installed libccid and openSC blindly assuming there wouldn't be an issue. Get unresponsive card for all my SLE4443s though.

>>56299757
>Nigger what? Arch is number 10 on distrowatch.com
>distrowatch.com
are you stupid or just pretending?

>>56299662
>Especially implementations like nspawn, DNS, networking in PID1
I keep hearing this a lot, is it FUD?

Systemd is PID1, and in the systemd source tree are many things that previously where separate projects.

But they are not PID1. Systemd is PID1, it starts those services under a different PID and if they crash systemd is notified and starts them again (or does what it was configured to do)

So, in essence, it works just like any other init system!

>>56302770
> So, in essence, it works just like any other init system!
# systemctl restart dbus
Exactly like any other init system.

it's a better init system, you luddites

enjoy following your "UNIX way" while the rest of your system is blatantly against it

>don't speak to me or my wife's udev fork ever again

>>56298817
launchd master race

>>56301555
this is how I know you're retarded.

pulseaudio is literally spaghetti written by one guy and adopted because it was somehow slightly less shit than using alsa for everything.

pulseaudio has no architecture, it has no design. It is literally organic to the point where you could attempt to reimplement it exactly and your code would look nothing like it.

>>56302770
Don't bother

Suckless fags have very low IQs and can't understand that there's little difference between a massive meta-tree of many sources and an integrated project

If you rolled the UNIX shell and its utilities into one program they'd flip, but they're compiled into separate binaries so the LOC per name is low and they're all pleased

Systemd has a lot of LOC under the "systemd" umbrella, even though you can audit the individual parts and whatnot
so it's bad

>>56300575
>Systemd is supposed to be an init system,

And that's where you're wrong. Systemd is supposed to be an OS. An OS layered ontop the Linux kernel. An init system is just one part of the package.

And that's what people are taking issue with, they don't want a whole new OS.

>>56303056
so why has nothing replaced it?

>>56303098
Maybe noone cares. Maybe it works just well enough for people to not bother trying to replace it.

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>>56303056

>>56304944
This image would be great if that's how pulse really worked

The problem is that the “pulse engine layer” (pulseaudio process) doesn't sit neatly in between applications and the kernel

The pulseaudio process is randomly autospawned by random programs at random times and litters your FS with random tempfiles and other garbage. If it breaks, random things usually happen

>>56298817
>>56298970
Using Gentoo Hardened/systemd now and it feels great

>>56299204
Blind resistance to change. systemd is improving the Linux core infrastructure for the better, and people are too attached to their 30-year old perl scripts full of hacks to come along for the ride.

>>56299662
>DNS, networking in PID1
Where does systemd have DNS and/or networking in pid1?

>>56299183
Alpine Linux

>>56299936
>systemd continues to absorb critical OS elements into its function (it continues growing in lines of code and complexity meaning the attack surface continues growing)
If systemd simply absorbs another component, wouldn't the attack surface remain constant? (or even go down, because mountains of old legacy shell scripts are replaced by minimal unix-style components that reuse code and reduce complexity)

>>56299976
Link?

The only thing I remember seeing is torvalds making a joke (when he said “no” and nodded his head), which he claimed after the presentaton was meant as a joke, nothing more

>>56303096
this, exactly this

systemd (as the name implies) basically takes care of the whole systemd - basically everything that can be done outside of the kernel but still is part of the operating system's responsibility falls under Red Hat's “systemd” umbrella.

I don't think there's anything relevant with no systemd at all besides alpine linux, slackware, and pclinuxos

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>>56299662
>complaining about systemd security when linux & related userland software has had a steady flow of 0-day exploits for years on end.

>>56304991
>Blind resistance to change. systemd is improving the Linux core infrastructure for the better, and people are too attached to their 30-year old perl scripts full of hacks to come along for the ride.
Everything about that statement smacks of complete ignorance. Go to /v/ where you belong.

>>56305665
Are you telling me that /v/ is the place to discuss systemd and the various technological improvement it makes to the Linux OS infrastructure?

>>56305751
No, I'm saying you don't know anything about sysv init, or about the impact systemd has had on linux development

>>56305967
I've been a Gentoo user and active participant in its development (contributing ebuilds and bug fixes) for several years and have written multiple OpenRC scripts.

It's a piece of shit compared to systemd, which has completely revolutionized and simplified my life. So many things just work that were a huge pain before.

>>56306217
>linux
>stuff just works
too good to be true, must be evil

it's funny to see people complaining about systemd. Most of them are just old people struggling to have their legacy configurations working, or old people struggling to maintain legacy corporation software working.

I don't see recent projects complaining about their effectiveness on organizing things. Unfortunately the project just solved a bunch of things on a better way that OpenRC developers could not do.

And as usual, if you're a jobless geek or just a edgy kid with no professional knowledge on IT you will complain about shit on a retarded way.

People who use Linux to be edgy are FREE to express your hatred. The others ones here are to busy making huge deployments of critical software.

>inb4 nobody is giving shit to systemd nor OpenRC since the professional world is switching to container environment.

>>56306217
I'd ask for examples, but we both know you won't provide any. You're shilling pretty damn hard.

>>56305967
Nobody sensible uses sysvinit these days except slackwarefags. It's all about runit and openrc.

>>56298817
Using Funtoo GNU/Linux with OpenRC and eudev here. Completely free from systemd garbage.

>>56307042
Slackware only uses the sysvinit binary.
Its init scripts are BSD-style, not that awful SysV-style

>>56298970
AntiX doesnt use systemd

>>56307018
That's fine, because I'll give them to you anyway
>user services
>session/seat tracking
>socket activation
>suspend/hibernate (pm-utils was a nightmare)
>monotonic timers / random timers
>automatic daemon restarting
>service-based process tracking and management (via cgroups)
>usable logging interface (journalctl)
>service file overrides
and more

What is SystemD and why is it so shitty?

>>56307334
It's the software equivalent to Lennart cumming all over your pc.

>>56307369
I still don't understand this

>>56305209
There was that bug where if systemd's dns resolver had a poisoned cached, it wouldn't boot lol. Id find the ticket but I don't feel like searching through all the "WONTFIX" tickets

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>>56298817
I escaped systemd and pulseaudio. Plan to escape polkit when going to a source based distro.

>>56307301
>ask for examples
>shill gives a list of systemd "features" instead without even bothering to strip out the obviously non-applicable ones

>>56300575
Does systemd problems relate to women who are going into programming now?

>>56307406
I don't use systemd's DNS resolver. I don't see a pressing need to replace unbound, which works fine for me.

>>56307556
It's lead dev did write some asspained SJW shit and cried about how Linus was a big meanie.

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Only on my SBC. I tried keeping it on SysVinit but Debian Stretch would crash every few days, so I just gave up and stuck with systemd

>>56299204
It's a bloatware that is made to basically encompass everything between kernel and DE, to make linux a more monolithic system. It may or may not be a bad idea, but even for what it is, systemd is horribly designed. I can expect any shit from people who decided to store logs in binary format.

>microsoft actually revived this fucking paid troll thread
DO NOT REPLY TO OBVIOUS PAID MS SHILLING THREADS
REPORT ALL PAID MS SHILLING THREADS
MESSAGE 4CHAN AND REQUEST SOMETHING BE DONE ABOUT /g/ MS SHILLING THREADS

>>56307679
But microcuks don't care about systemd.

>>56307679
Systemd is literally windows with linux kernel and no DE

>>56305302
no, things would go from compartmentalized development with security being approached by a component basis to monolithic development where you have to worry about the security of one large increasingly complex project

if a single feature outside of systemd gets compromised there is less worry over how it will effect other parts of the system because it is not directly connected to other essential OS functions.

>>56305395
this is a bait and switch in a sense

they promised a modern init system and gave you an increasingly growing wad of fast moving corporate spaghetti

Gee, I wonder why RH would do this to Linux?

>>56301375
doesn't void take religious offense to anything GNU? Isn't it closer to BSD?

>>56308159
>Gee, I wonder why RH would do this to Linux?
I'm unfamiliar with any bad things Red Hat Linux has been known to do. I know Ubuntu's spyware and Mint is poorly secured, but with RH, what are you getting at?

>>56303039
>ids bedder beguz ids new, am i rite?

>>56298817
What's wrong with systemd? It's a far better bootloader than grub.

>>56303073
>>Systemd has a lot of LOC under the "systemd" umbrella, even though you can audit the individual parts and whatnot
>so it's bad
Yes so now instead of running a simple init you have to dig through some dumb faggots genius reimplementations of practically the whole OS to have a secure system? No thanks.

Systemd supporters really have no brain. They all sound like they came straight from Windows and know nothing about proper operating system design. There are already operating systems that "just work". These monolithic philosophers should just go use existing solutions instead of morphing a relatively modular OS into a Windows clone

>>56308271
See the image >>56307612

>>56304944
>>56304975
this is the type of developer you want re-implementing major Linux OS components

>>56300845
>not using eudev
>consolekit
>dbus
Why the fuck do you have those do you want to have all that bloat and learn how to set package.use flags

>>56308271
fuck off nigger

>>56308178
RH has interests outside of its own
Systemd is systematic damaging of GNU/Linux security by introducing fast moving, large, complicated code in charge of critical functions into the system
>>56300065

>>56308685
Wow. Cuck in all caps is filtered to KEK.

>>56307501
At least half of what he mentions is applicable. Are you in denial?

>>56308685
imagine if there was a page on 4chan where you could choose to ban yourself for any set amount of time

>>56308730
KEK?

>>56307633
Why? It saves space and is all in all a more efficient approach.

>>56308685
>>56308730
>>56308757
Lurk for two more years before posting.

>>56308685
>>>/global/rules/6

They aren't even trying to hide the fact that they want systemd to replace the gnu userland tools. I never thought I'd see the day where an init system replaces the userland.

>>56308787
No.

>>56308757
that's not a laughing matter, is a kind of censorship which is pretty serious.

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>Not knowing how linux works and not making your own OS image from source
>Needing systemd
>Needing big over bloated desktop components
Why don't you plebs just use windows

>>56309164
It's a fucking godsend, lowercase cuck should still be filtered too.

>>56308122
I don't follow. You are aware that systemd is highly modular and follows the UNIX principle, right? Every binary does one thing and does it well, separate things are separate binaries, and common infrastructure is reused. That is *THE* UNIX way, and systemd is doing it better than the pile of unmaintainable NIH scripts we had before

>>56310030
>You are aware that systemd is highly modular and follows the UNIX principle, right?
Here's a you

>>56299183
>Devuan is Debian with runit or OpenRC
No Gnome =(

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>>56299926
/thread

>>56310068
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html

Scroll down to #10

>>56298817
This thread is now about the greatest systemd free distro ever.

Windows 10. Enjoy your NSA systembotnet, lincucks. Install an OS that respects your freedoms.

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>>56310155
>win7
BTFO

>>56310151
it's not portable
it takes on way too many roles, initially claiming to be an init system so it can repackage itself as a rewriting of major OS components and shoveling features into PID1 no one asked for

it's not anywhere near close to the UNIX philosophy or engineering standard
>but the UNIX standard doesn't matter, its 2016
fine, call it whatever you want, at the end of the day it's shit engineering relative to any good principles

It's Windows style, and it's a cancer that will damage the security of the OS by having poorly constructed monolithic garbage in charge of critical OS functions instead of modular components that can inter operate

that garbage blog reshapes the core principles of the UNIX philosophy and cherry picks worthless points such as the structure of repositories to make itself seem relevant. It redefines UNIX so it can make itself according to its standards. This is a common strategy of the systemd developer cancer when something doesn't play along correctly with their monolithic piece of shit.

>>56310350
It doesn't respect your freedom to pwn noobs with DX12. It also waits for your approval to install security updates which means you are left vulnerable to exploits that might allow NSA/Poettering to install systemd.

>>56310418
Good job nobody cares what you think or all this deluded shit you keep ranting about. Systemd has won because of people like you have absolutely 0 clue, aren't capable of producing code and can only talk pseudo-intellectual shit on obscure forums.

I love systemd, thanks for making it happen!

>>56310418
There is so much wrong with the post, I can't be bothered to even correct all of it. Read the rest of that page if you can be arsed. And go look at the source code before making claims about it.

(I'm a C developer, and it looks perfectly readable and understandable to me. pid1 (main.c) also seems very short and self-contained. But whatever)

>>56310612
>Good job nobody cares what you think or all this deluded shit you keep ranting about.
You're just a mentally retarded and can't understand simple engineering implications or paradigms.

Just keep using your special snowflake OS for the obscure factor. You don't have to worry about these things

>>56310716
Thanks again!

>>56298817
I try to avoid it as much as possible. I use FreeBSD on my servers (except my KVM host, which is Debian) and ArchLinux on my desktop.

>>56310732
you're welcome
keep posting, that was your second post in this thread
I'm sure you have more constructive input

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I'm surprised by the amount of systemd cucks on /g/.

Disappointing to be honest.

>>56310799
There's not that many. Most of /g/ is /v/ so they run Windows 10 for the way it was meant to be played.

>systemd isn't MODULAR. everything is DEPENDENT on it . it's against the <OS that isn't Linux> """"""""""""""""philosophy"""""""""""""""".
>try these systemd distros to run great because they don't have another init that replaced it like a MODULE and was built without DEPENDENCY on systemd.

PIck one.

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>>56310799
Why is /g/ filled with the new kind of hipsters?
>Wake up in the morning
>Go back to the terminal you left open last night for increased uptime and powerlevel

>It's Void Linux with no Xorg

>Runit instead of Systemd
>LibreSSL instead of OpenSSL
>Clang instead of GCC
>Musl instead of glibc or
>Uclibc instead of libc
>Busybox instead of coreutils
>ZSH instead of bash
>rEFIt instead of grub
>Patrician ed instead of nano
>Screeny instead of screenfetch
>Wicd instead of Network Manager
>Organic water instead of tap water


>Compile herbslutwm and install vivaldi
>Go to 4chan, browse /soc/

>Manages to chat with a "fem"anon
>"What do you do in leisure?"
>My choices of entertainment are somewhat recherché
>"Tell me more"
>Euphoric.gif
>Eat no proteins, only dead, organic vegetables
>I prefer Ballad to what you call "mainstream songs"
>I don't like smokers, I prefer vaping, guilty charged
>I own a Penny-farthing vélocipède for transportation
>femanon freaks out and stops responding

>>>/g/
>Fuck systemd botnet
>Fuck bash, noob
>Fuck GNU
>lol are you still using gcc in $currentyear?
>I personally use BSD for my primary operating system
>Muh Unix
>Muh philosophy


ISHYGDDT

>>56298970
Alpine Linux uses openrc

>>56299183
Slackware has the best installer of any GNU/Linux distro, this is a fact.

>>56308337
Not him but eudev fills the udev use flag dependency.

>>56311112
>herbslutwm
...this can't be real
*google
motherfucker

>>56311651
i believe the guy named it herbstluftwm because he liked the name wanderlust
I like both names a lot. herbstluftwm is decent, I don't use it though.

>>56298817
RHCSA for RHEL 7 so I'm full systemd cucked. Feels badman.
>tfw you miss init

>>56310418
But it's not monolithic, it's modular.

>>56299662
This.
Why are people even arguing?

>>56310030
>systemd
>following UNIX principles
TOP FUCKING KEK

>>56315984
if you redefine UNIX principles into what the systemd developers want it to mean, then yes

that's like the core systemd development strategy

if it is not compatible with our implementation then it's wrong and should be rewritten to be """""""""""modernized"""""""""""""" so it works with systemd

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>>56310488
>installing systemd
>from my win7 install

you w8 m8 fuk you up somethin good

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>>56311112
>increased uptime and powerlevel
love the sound of wasted cycles

>>56300575
>the linux mindset
have you seen linux?

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>>56300575
>Systemd is supposed to be an init system
No. It is a program that has a great init component but violates the Unix definitions "A does B. A does B well" systemd...it's more of a "A is partitioned x1,x2,x3,...,xn such that
x1 -> v1
x2 -> v2
x3+x9 -> w2 -> "some other process" -> "3rdparty" -> you see were this is going
"

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>>56301375
>Most Linuxses are irrelevant
>relevance

>>56317452
>it is a program that has a great init component
citation needed
https://ewontfix.com/14/
https://ewontfix.com/15/

>>56307633
What logs are you talking about?
I can use less on those I have tried.
Should I cat | less to see what is wrong?

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>>56298817
Not me, I am free from poeterring, the freedesktop cabal, GNOME and redhat's faggotry. (dconf, gconf, GNOME, systemd, pulseaudio, ifplugd, avahi, polkit, udev, networkmanager, consolekit, udisks, upower, pam, gtk3, and wayland, aka security theatre)

I'll also have you know, I have disabled dbus activation (dbus will start services outside your service manager if an application requests it, ex: you kill your notification daemon, pidgin then requests your notification daemon and gets started back up, even though you killed it 5 seconds ago)

you can put this in /etc/dbus-1/system-local.conf (note: if you use a DE it will probably break with activation disabled)

<busconfig>
<servicehelper>/bin/false</servicehelper>
</busconfig>


Pic related

>>56317566
>le tiled window management meme

Be careful with those sharp edges of yours friend

What's the problem with systemd
It's so much easier adding services now

>>56318150
>It's so much easier

That's the problem.

Notice that the modularity arguments are never systemd does to many things poorly. It's always systemd doing everything so well that it's has taken over all the major distros. it's kind of lulzy.

>>56305652
severely underrated post

>>56308307
>and know nothing about proper operating system design
>implying there is anything sane and proper about cron and anacron
This is just an example, the way systemd is handling scheduled task is more correct and flexible than cron and anacron

The old init system was inflexible, not powerful enough, relying on scripts and manually making sure the environment is clean, the path is correct etc.
So hacks upon hacks were built, like cron and anacron, to make it work, but there were always corner cases and more hacks were needed.

Systemd is correcting all that.

Read the UNIX haters handbook, the UNIX way you so much romanticize isn't as good as you think it is.
Most of the times it is adequate because the alternatives (e.g. Windows) are shit but there are many ways to improve on it and systemd is just that.

>>56318703
>systemd is creating an unholy kudzu clusterfuck of all that and more
FTFY shill

>>56318290
>unable to read
>still somehow able to post

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Did I time travel back to 2014? How is this still worthy of discussion?

https://github.com/systemd/mkosi
>Build Legacy-Free OS Images
>Generated images are """""legacy-free""""". This means only GPT disk labels (and no MBR disk labels) are supported, and only systemd based images may be generated. Moreover, for bootable images only EFI systems are supported (not plain MBR/BIOS).

reminder that if you're not using systemd you're running a legacy system

>>56319527
>reminder that if you're not using systemd you're running a legacy system
Not really incorrect. I just enjoy/prefer the legacy ways.

>>56318891
Because it was a wrong decision but no one had better alternative. Now its bloating with release by release, eventually bringing non-working spaghetti to every aspect.

I had to change all my servers' inits when migrating to systemd and it was fucking confusing at the time. Now I pretty much am at peace with systemd services, but still their logging is so fucking shit.

God that poettering's network manager is fucking piece of donkey shit and I remove it completely every time setting up a distro.

>>56307633
So is there a reason for it? Does Linux run faster with it or something?

>>56309164
Fucking roodypoo

poettering a qt but fuck systemd

>>56301290
>>actually believing that your shitposts could stop or even make a dent on Microsoft
That's what they want you to think, and that's what they keep telling us. Do not believe it.

Its the new xorg, just wait in a couple years time when the latest and greatest successor comes out and we have to port all the software that becomes dependent on systemDicks

>>56317891
>Needing a window manager
>Needing a DE
>Not running everything you need from TTY
You truly don't know the true edges

>>56301555
>not hating pulseaudio

Hi red hat employee

>>56298970
Chrome OS is Gentoo.

>>56319573
For servers, networkmanager is indeed hell. /etc/network/interfaces can't be beaten