/g/ likes to pretend that the industry for software dev is a

>>56285375
I certainly hope no one has called it easy, but on my team there are a few people without a CS degree, and one doesn't even have a degree. And this is at a Big 4 company.

I am not sure what to tell you anon.

>>56285375
It's not what you know, it's who you know.

>>56285375
>the industry for software dev is a meritocracy
It is half-and-half. You need connections, but you cannot get far without genuine skill.

>you can be gainfully employed without a 4-year degree if you can prove you're not retarded with a portfolio
Depends on where you apply. Large company? Why would they look at you when there are 200 other applicants WITH a degree?

Small companies may employ you, since they need to hire cheaper, and are willing to test your skills.

>Because I've applied to 20 places
Small number.

>this year
You screwed up. You should apply to 20 places per month.

>nobody called me or even sent me a rejection email.
That is rude.

>>56285459
Falcon what do you even do these days?

>>56285483
Working on my Masters. CS makes you suicidal. Genuinely suicidal.

>Ok class, today we are going to learn about all the various different methodologies for information system development! Yay!

>>56285375
You can get a 40k a year job at some random company in bumfuck nowhere without a degree if you send out enough applications. If you want those 100k+ jobs at Facebook etc you better damn well get a degree.

>>56285459
>You screwed up. You should apply to 20 places per month.

So you want me to apply to the same places repeatedly?
It's not like there's a overabundance of companies with job openings for programmers.

Should I start applying out of state and hope they pay for me to move?

I have a £40k job without a degree, just portfolio, less than 1 year into my career. I alwayd got to the final stage interviews with employers

>>56285692
What kind of software do you have in your portfolio?

>>56285692
£40k is poverty tier, especially as a Yuropoor where 60% of it goes to taxes.

>>56285812
Emulators, scrapers, virtual machines, language interpreters, competition solutions, and some more

You got meme'd. To get a good job you need a degree.

I don't understand why anyone would go to college to become a programmer.
You can teach it yourself and the quality of the your classes will vary wildly from so-so to god-fucking awful, with a higher chance of the latter.

If you have to supplement your classes with lots of self-learning anyway, why even bother with college in the first place?

>>56285825
Well im not a yuropoor who gets taxed that much

>>56285838
>oh yeah I totally taught myself, I know what I'm doing, trust me!

>>56285857
>oh yeah i totally have a degree, I know what I'm doing, trust me!

https://css-tricks.com/tales-of-a-non-unicorn-a-story-about-the-trouble-with-job-titles-and-descriptions/

>>56285884
He at least made it to the interview stage. Have fun getting your resume trashed.

>>56285910
What good is a degree in COMPUTERS if you can't even solve problems programmatically?

>>56285884
I know this article. I have read this article more than once... and yet, the cringe!

>OMG MATH
>I do not understand the point of the question!
>it was impossible for me to figure it out with someone watching
>I needed to do some serious Googling
Eeeeee!!!

>>56285929
To stop your resume from being trashed on sight you fucking retard.

>>56285966
So you're basically admitting the degree is completely useless aside from getting your foot in the door with HR?

Isn't this collusion?

>>56285375
Where are you located and give me a link to some of your previous project work (github or something).

If you're located near one of my corporate bases I'll try putting in a word for you. Also, what are you proficient in?

(if outside the US or have a criminal record don't bother replying)

>>56285999
Hah nice trips. Also I should add. I'll put in a word for you if you don't suck. I get a bonus if you're not a piece of shit. So I'm being serious with you.

>>56285984
What's your point? If you don't have a degree, you'll be stuck at a shit job.

the whole system is fucked
>why don't you have a degree?
>why do you have a 6 month gap in your resume?
>why didn't you apply for the internship when you were still in middle school?
>why weren't you the president of the math club both in high school and university?
>why don't you have tons of open source projects with millions of users each?

>>56286014
I saw the way you acted in the other thread.
No, i don't want to work at a goddamn missile company.

>>56285999
Good on you, anon.

Speaking of hiring, I need a web developer. For those outside the USA:

If you are a Malaysian citizen, or you have residency in Malaysia, or you have your own valid work permit and visa, and you are a web developer, I can hire you. If you are shy about posting your info here, email me. My email is public.

>>56286050
Who said I work at a missile company?
Who the hell even makes just missiles anyway?

>>56286058
Fuck off attention whoring tripfaggot no one wants to help you with your shill site.

>>56286058
>or you have your own valid work permit and visa
For Malaysia, just so we are clear.

Btw, I'm going to keep offering work until you faggots stop making these stupid ass "no one will hire me threads."

No one will hire you because your a talentless piece of shit.

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>>56286089
*you're
I need to put down the whiskey

>>56286089
You cannot hire everyone on /g/, mate.

>>56286098
Most people on /g/ wouldn't make it to an interview let alone convince me to attach my name to their shame.

>>56286098
Imagine someone hiring nothing but /g/ neets.
There's a reason they're neets, they have no initiative.

>>56286106
>>56286116
That is quite harsh. Yes, there are more "geeky nerds" here that on the average non-tech forum, but the vast majority of people who post here are perfectly normal people.

And besides, if you are running a tech-related business, wouldn't you want to hire tech-related people?

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>>56286116
But offering them a chance at an interview and a high salary sure as hell ends these stupid ass "no one will hire me because I'm x" threads in a fucking hurry.

They know what their obvious flaws are; if they're upfront about their abilities they'll lose their victim-hood status in their own thread. Their best move is to not play.

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>be CS student at a fairly prestigious university
>go to university career fair to look for internships
>am interested in systems-level programming
>literally EVERY SINGLE COMPANY at the career fair is hiring interns for java/sql garbage and ````web design''''
>take up an internship at a large company for backend java stuff to get experience, so my resume isn't completely blank
>hated the experience

Could someone PLEASE give me tips on how to get an internship working on OS/networking type of software? No more java, please

>>56286132
I could give 2 shits about their personality. I'm talking about marketable skills and useful talent. Most of /g/ is filled useless blowhards that go on & on about obscure shit that doesn't pay or don't know enough about established technology stacks to actually be useful in the workplace.

I refuse to work in web dev. I don't care how many neet bux i waste in the mean time

>>56286144
Why would anyone trust some little shit still in college to work on critical low level software?

>>56286144
>OS/networking software
Get a master's degree.

>>56286132
not him, but i agree with his view. first impressions matter, and while that first impression will never do anything one way or another for me, it would say a great deal that a person wants my first association of their name to be with /g/ and 4chan.

i've talked to people in irc and whatnot who have proven to be reasonable people, but i think of them as the exceptions to the rule. the overriding norm on /g/ is that this place is at least full of people who are too easily dragged into stupid, hyperbolic arguments.

>>56286180
i think you take 4cham too seriously
nobody here wants to have a serious discussion on argument because its too easy to pretend to be someone else and switch sides to save face

>>56286170
He's lucky they trusted him writing anything.
They were doing him a solid by not putting him on bitch duty doing shit like code cleanup and documentation

>>56286175
I definitely want to get a master's as well

>>56286170
That's why I want an internship in the field, to learn the ropes from someone who actually has experience with critical low level software, so that I can get experience too. Isn't that the purpose of an internship?

>go to big company
>none of the other developers know much about anything
>my "mentor" can't answer questions about their own technologies
>end up teaching full time software developers on my team about their OWN FUCKING STACK

I really, really don't want to repeat that experience, and I figure low-level software devs are less retarded.

>>56286205
Well aren't you mommy's smartest little boy.

>>56285884
>Except for JavaScript "engineering" and anything related to algorithms, my technical skills are sharp
LOL, so you are applying to a developer position without knowing how to make algorithms...

>>56286205
>That's why I want an internship in the field, to learn the ropes from someone who actually has experience with critical low level software, so that I can get experience too. Isn't that the purpose of an internship?

Not going to happen. Low level software development doesn't happen that often anymore; and only a few highly experienced guys even touch the shit... I can guarantee you that they won't have time to hold your hand or "show you the ropes."

Stick to doing stupid CRUD apps; get your master's.. make your company pay for it and then move up.

>>56286193
... and yet we're having a reasonably serious conversation right now.

i try to engage in the conversations on /g/ that at least seem to be seriously trying to understand the other side of some topic. those conversations are rarer, but rewarding and common enough that i don't believe that 4chan ONLY supports people showing up to "pretend" to be retarded (and i don't think people are pretending or doing anything remotely clever like that)

take porn as an extreme example of the same principle: i assume absolutely everyone looks at porn, but i'm not interested in forming a professional bond with anyone who shares my particular habits and fetishes. it's great we're all here masturbating to petite asian women, but don't ask me for a job reference.

>>56286221
I don't consider myself as particularly smart, and I got where I am today solely by putting effort in to my work.

I want to put effort into a proper internship as well, but when I go to a company, and I can learn more in two weeks than my "mentor" could in 5+ years, I'm not getting anything out of that experience, period.

>>56286250
I'm sure that somebody will hire me for low-level stuff
I mean, someone has to write drivers, implement new kernel security stuff, build better compilers, and fix network stacks, right? All the old Unix beards are slowly dying, someone will have to replace them.

>move up
You mean going into management?

>>56286276
>You mean going into management?
There are several lateral moves out of "senior software developer"

Management is great if you're good at leading & managing teams.

More specialized fields are great if you're more focused on the academics of software development.

The point I'm trying to make you; you fucking sperg; is everyone starts somewhere. Count your blessings that you have any work experience at all. You could be like the rest of the sad fucks on /g/ that are hopeless forever unemployed welfare recipients.

In a few years you'll be bitching about how the government is screwing you out of your hard earned money. That will be way more concerning than the fact that you'll have to wait before you get to do the real cool shit.

>>56286302
Yeah, not sure if I'm cut out for management, but I'll have to make that decision after getting more experience.

I definitely want to specialize in a certain domain, but other than pursuing a master's and phd focused on that domain, is there any way I can make myself more appealing for those types of jobs?

I am glad that I got experience, and I'll keep on working towards my dream career, but it just seems that low-level stuff is kept shrouded from us undergrad peons, and it's just a little off-putting to me.

>>56286368
Just the nature of the beast. Find a company that's willing to let you dabble in projects. Some companies never remove the training wheels.

Others will put you on projects despite your resume lacking experience in the relevant technology stacks simply because they know you can "quickly figure things out."

>>56286368
You need to see things from management's perspective. Low-level stuff is more difficult, and requires experience. As a new hire, management is not going to trust you till you have proven yourself.

If anyone wants to know more about hiring, interviews, resumes/CVs, just ask. I have hired web developers and non-tech staff, both irl and online, have looked at dozens of resumes, and have interviewed people (also irl and online).

>>56286060
>The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't.

>>56286701
What are some things in a cv that just put you off hiring some one?

Do you need put in a real life hobby like basketball or something in you cv?

>>56286928
>What are some things in a cv that just put you off hiring some one?

Begging, for one.
>Please, I will do anything, just hire me, please.

Sending in a book instead of a resume. I have has people send me 14-page stuff, and it included delightful items such as "answered a question on stackoverflow", complete with a link.

Unrealistic salary expectations
>1 year experience, ~USD$80K/year expected salary... in a third world country

Lack of qualifications, lack of skills that we specifically asked for
>Hire me as a web developer! I know SQL and Java!

>Do you need put in a real life hobby like basketball or something in you cv?
I did not care either way. If you want to, and it is not a 5 page story, go ahead. I doubt anyone is going to say: "That fellow has the skills and experience we want... but there is no mention of "running" or "jogging" in here, so... no hire."

>>56285657
You can try to apply for jobs that aren't what you want, lower down and build your way up.

Sometimes you can get a lot higher than just getting the job you want right away.
Of course the depends on having the ability to be forceful and claw your way through the ranks.

>>56287013
Bonus points for latex?

>>56287131
None, despite what /g/ says. PDF or .doc is perfectly fine.

Bonus points for tidiness, clarity, and proper English!

>>56287184
Attaching per email, or printing it and sending a folder per post or bringing folder by personally?
Email honestly sounds like the least hassle for everyone, but oldfags try to get me to bring it over.

Also, if everything is in the PDF attached to the mail, what should go in the mail body?

Sakuya a bully

>>56287497
Greetings!

Thank you for considering me for [position x]. Attached are the files that you asked for.

Yours,
Name McLast

>printing it and sending a folder per post or bringing folder by personally?
I suggest you call HR, and let them know that you are happy to come and give them the resume/CV in person, or email it if they prefer. You going in person makes you stand out a bit, as long as you arrive neat and clean, and not look like a hobo.

>>56287581
So if I look like a neet and am socially awkward, it would only put me at a disadvantage to bring it over

>>56287592
It would be a good opportunity for you to:
-shower
-brush your teeth
-get a hair cut
-do the laundry if your clothes are only dirty
or
-buy new clothes if your clothes are torn
-practice saying "hello, my name is Name McLast" without looking at your shoes

The above is something you should do, regardless of whether they ask you to bring the resume in person or not.

Remember: Most places will send a minimum of TWO people to interview you. One to check the skills the company needs, the other (usually HR) to check that you are not a psycho.

Bump for job thread.

>>56285375
I dont have a cs degree. I have a history degree.

I thought I was going to be an infantry officer my whole life.

Then I lost some fingers and decided to get out. I took 2 years of CS with a heavy emphasis on Math because I wanted to just jump up to a masters. However, I went to a career fair for shits and giggles and was offered an internship which turned into a job at the end of summer as a developer.

>>56285375
>taking career advice from fizzbuzz engineers
lmaoing at your life