Freedom from systemd

What's so bad about Systemd, and why should I care?

>>56208940
Void Linux, tough only 7k+ packages in their repo.
It's very similar to Arch Linux.

>>56208944
Nothing, it's actually pretty good.
Don't.

>>56208969

Sup Lennart.

>>56208944
>>56208969
>keeps bloating up.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Systemd-Mount

Enjoy your systemd/linux

>>56208984
Why is it "bloating up" bad?

>>56208984
One daemon to rule them all.

>>56208984
What's wrong with that.

>>56208997

If you have to ask, then you deserve all the bad things that will happen to you for using systemd.

>>56208997
>why is reinventing the wheel bad?

>>56209013
I've been using it for a while now, on Debian, Ubuntu and Arch. I don't even know exactly what it does, and haven't noticed any difference to Linux with SysV Init.

So why should I care?

>>56208940
That is a good question. Many Void users on /g/ recommend that. Using Devuan myself and shiton of packages.

Monitoring this thread.

>>56209035
The don't care about it and avoid engaging discussion about it, if you - as you say - "don't care"

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>>56209011
>>56208997
>>56209035

>all these tech-illiterates using Linux

Fuck, Linux has become mainstream. Time to switch to BSD!

>>56209015
Last time I checked, cars don't drive around on solid wheels with iron bands around them and an axle that has wood grinding on wood lubricated by axle grease.

So reinventing the wheel can be quite nice.

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>>56208940

>>56209052
Except those are systemd shills paid by Red Hat. Ignore, report and hide.

>>56209062
Except if it adds an exoskelet you wonder why, when the car provides a solid base already.

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Escape the vendor lock-in of systemd, Red Hat doesn't own all distros.

Remember they have trolls on every forum to shitpost when anyone mentions alternative distros.

PCLinuxOS is the only choice, OP.

>>56209052
I didn't say I don't care. I'm asking why I should.
But if the answer is "because it doesn't work the same way as its predecessor that's been around for 20 years did", then I guess I don't.

>>56209068
Wait, I can get paid for this?

>>56209119

Get back to work, Lennart, you have tons of bugs to fix.

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>>56209105
See >>56209080
It adds features that are already there and etablished. It's a parasyte digging deeper and deeper to the Linux system.

>>56209086
Explain how Red Hat would even profit from Ubuntu users being locked into Systemd.

Then explain how independent developers of Ubuntu, Debian, Arch, Suse, and several fucktons of other distros would be forced to use systemd if it was as shitty as you claim.

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If you are really asking why to care about systemd, the vendor lock-in should be enough reason.

There you have it. Now shitposters, leave this thread.

>>56209062

When you invent a better wheel, not when you invent a worse wheel that's also a radiator, a gas tank and an electronic lock.

>>56209135
I get that.
But what makes everyone on the developer side, including Linus embrace it, if it doesn't provide any benefit?

>>56209152
Leave.

>>56209159
Uh, vendor lock-in isn't really a thing if it doesn't make you money.

>>56209176
Make me, fagit

Funtoo.

>>56209169
Devs actually hate it, for being complicated through it's speghetti nature.
I am no dev tough, you might check out google for an adequate, educated answer.

>>56209179

Like Internet Explorer, right? Oh wait...

>>56209179
You are implying they don't make to decide what software to deprecate or which packages get maintained, and its worst in the long run.

Leave.

>>56208940
Funtoo but it isn't bleeding edge more stable, you could always go Gentoo/Slackware

>>56208944
Systemd is overall a good thing. But here is why some people hate it.
- It's led by Lennart who says retarded things and is associated with the collapse of audio on distros when his Pulse Audio was adopted too fast.
- Some applications are locked in with systemd now (e.g. Gnome 3).
- Some distros adopted systemd without a good enough discussion on alternatives (e.g. Debian and Ubuntu).
- Systemd is huge and is still growing so it doesn't follow The Unix Way meme.
- It's heavily developed by Redhat who some people think is trying to harm other competitors.
- It breaks old expectations of a normal Linux desktop (e.g. closing all processes that don't specify to survive logouts when someone logs out).

>>56209152
Udev and other tools that used to be independent are now a part of systemd.
In the near future those essential tools may not be separatable from systemd easily.

>>56209135
My biggest gripe with this whole thing is, why does all of it need to use the "systemd" moniker? Couldn't the exact same system be implemented in parts using more descriptive names and by doing so, avoid the fallout of people griping about "muh Unix"?

And since it's supposedly modular, why develop and release it as a whole package? Each individual piece of it could just be a self-sufficient package, no?

>>56209196
That's not true. Systemd is fucking good to program around. But the lock in is bad.

>>56209282
The GNU coreutils do the same thing and nobody bats an eye.

>>56209286
I think he mean programmers of systemd others than Red Hat and not others like say distro maintainers. The code of systemd is known to be a hairball , in Eric Raymond's words.

>>56209053
Contrarian hipster kill yourself. You only installed Linux just because you wanted to be "cool". Fuck off

>>56208984
Good
No need for fucking polkit, autofs or udev bloats now

I like arch Linux too much right now to switch to another distribution.

>>56209326

Except nobody but a few left-wing Lisp-tards really likes GNU.

>>56209372
Give me one good distro that avoids systemd

>>56209360

Sure, kid.

>>56208944
fuck off already, every fucking thread gets derailed because of this question and you know this, yet you still post it.

OP asked for distros without systemd,now post some or get the fuck out.

Devuan(or manually remove systemd from Debian), void, gentoo, in Arch you can use OpenRC, slackware

>>56209389
Struck a nerve, didn't I?

>>56209378
This. GNU sucks terribly.

>>56209381
PCLOS.

>>56209372
Manjaro has a version with OpenRC. Also you could try http://systemd-free.org/install.php

But systemd has heavy integration to prevent anyone from switching inits.

>>56209400

Not really no.

>>56209401
>PCLOS
Shit

I like my network manager and pulse audio. I'd move to GNOME when wayland comes out

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You need to pay programmers money to make them do the boring testing and debugging required to actually make a program good.

Freetard model with dozens of programs that exist to do the same thing except none of them do it well and 95% are abandoned deserves to die.

Bring on the RedhatOS.

>>56209416
If GNOME fans hate PCLOS, then that must mean it's great.

>>56209381
Arch without Systemd:

http://systemd-free.org/install.php

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>>56209421
>Freetard
This is the true face of RedHat. Vendor lock-in and their version of Microsoft's "embrace extend extinguish".

>>56209449
Shhhh, it's OK, anon.
Not everyone is out to get you and ur waifu.

>>56209411
>>56209443
Thanks for the link, I'll try arch Linux without systemd

>>56209464

You're*

>>56209464
If you don't like my response then stop your shilling and leave.

Is Alpine any good?

>>56209483

Yes, it's just poorly documented.

>>56209256
it's a fucking botnet

>>56209483
I'm not sure how many packages are available anon, its supposed to be a minimal server distro.

>>56209483
yes.

The Mail program, that is. Not the distro.

>>56209449
>Lock-in
>Free and open source software

You're literally complaining because the professionally developed software they offer up under the GPL is too damn good for GNAA/Freetard hackjob shitware to compete

Redhat isn't wasting vast quantities of time and money making backwards compatibility shims and compatibility layers to appease the feral freetards who foam at the mouth at the free and open source software they're given.

Systemd's new features mightn't be terribly important to a server box that sits 99% underutilized in a basement but dealing sensibly with VMs, containers and vast fleets of cloud systems is what Redhat's customers demand.

>>56209516
kek

>>56209505
explain pls.

>>56209522
>Freetard hackjob shitware
We don't need you and your flamewar here.

Leave,

>>56209522

>is too damn good

Holy shit, the paid shilling is real!

>>56209516
lul

>>56209544
no.

>>56209522
And locking in Gnome 3.

>>56209545
Make something better then.

>>56209570
Yes.

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>>56209522

>I know jack shit of software quality, development and operating systems: The Post

Just a regular day on /g/, tbfam h.

>>56209611
Tell me the wonders of the GNU userland that everybody is switching away from as fast as possible

>>56209618
Anti-GNU shilling is driving people away. Is only logical some companies try to push shitty licenses instead.

>>56209596
previous inits werked just fine, they still do

systemd is harmful is just a meme.

>>56209516
teh drag and drop files!

>>56209668
Lennart pls go

>>56209668
Leave.

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>not using mint

I've found a way to get distributions without systemd from distrowatch, here http://distrowatch.com/search.php?pkg=systemd&pkgver=&distrorange=NotInLatest#pkgsearch

>>56209635
You're conflating GNU and the GPL.

I don't care about systemd. Does it make you feel bad?

>>56209721
I'm using it. Has it no systemd?

>>56209683
>>56209684
systemd is actually beneficial in the long term growth of linux. There is nothing wrong with it. It makes sense to use it for the foreseeable future.

>>56209729
funny how not a single distro with more than 5 users is listed.

>>56209729
Kek, it's worse than I thought.

>>56209776

17.x uses Upstart.

Sarah has systemd.

>>56209729
tnx anon

>>56209785
This was not a thread about systemd but about distros.

Your opinion is bullshit anyway.

>>56209794
>>56209796
>they come in packs

>>56208997
sometimes software turns into shit and you have to take it to the trash
with something like systemd this is very difficult as more and more other pieces of software start to depend on it

>>56209785

Yeah, it's actually a great source for software design anti-pattern samples. I love it, can't stop using it in my software engineering course.

Needless to say, I don't use Linux. Wanna bet what OS I use?

>>56209191
>using a shittier version of gentoo

Why?

>>56209794
objectively wrong

>>56209812
Thank you. 90 replies in, this was the first sensible answer to a legitimate question I had.

>>56209785
I think it's bad for long term and good for short term. It makes a lot of positive changes but hopefully something less monolithic comes along before too much software gets locked in.

>>56209830
>>Shittier
Say that to my git portage motherfucker and see what happens

>>56209821
This. How systemd is a glittering development AntiPattern library borders on the comical.

>>56209830
Funtoo is superior. It makes a bunch of changes the Gentoo people are too conservative to make.

>>56209053

>can't name why it's bad

Could you be any more see-through? Your behaviour is that of a 10 year old child.

Systemd is a FOSS software. I have no problem with it

>>56210002
With binaries in it's core ;^)

>>56210015

Name some.

>>56210015
What are you on about?

http://www.funtoo.org/Funtoo_Linux_FAQ

>>56210002

>bad software is okay as long as it's FOSS

What makes software good is whether it's free or not. Not, you know, being good.

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>>56208940
>without systemd

>>56210076
>bad software
But it's not. It works

>>56208968
You can compile your own packages with xbps-src and even upload to the official repo using git

>>56210084

>bad software is okay as long as it werx

You just keep digging yourself further down, don't you?

>>56210076

"Good" is subjective. You don't have a valid, specific argument.
A license offers at least an argument (as subjective as it can be).

>>56210086
Yup. I want to "port" mpdviz sometime when i get into that. Right now i'm using an old binary, from a former arch install in ~/bin to accoplish that.

>>56210108

Sure. There are no established, standard metrics in the software industry. There is no such thing as software architecture.

I'm done talking with systemd shills.

>>56210070
>We're currently looking for a new logo. I change it periodically and include a question mark to encourage people to submit ideas. You can post ideas to theforums.
Finally something /g/ can contribute.

So far manjaro openrc has been the most functional non-systemd distro
Not really bleeding edge though
maybe gentoo is best for that

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>>56210123
>people who disagree with me are shills, because no one could ever actually hold a different opinion from mine, the CORRECT one.

>>56210136
Gentoo is not bleeding edge.

>>56209053
>le systemd is bad

>>56210123

Name some of the bad software architectures regarding systemd and the good ones about alternatives.

>>56210156

Said the guy who actually believes "good" when referring to software is subjective, that there are no objective criteria to determine whether software is good or bad.

>>56210197

No. They've been named ad nauseam, and whenever we do, you just dismiss them as if there was some kind of conspiracy against systemd going on. And then you just repeat solemnly that there is no valid criticism of systemd, in a Goebbels propaganda fashion.

No, I won't take some paid shill's bait.

>>56208940
Gentoo unstable
You can use OpenRC on arch too (not officially supported tho)

>>56208984

>all those comments about people's outrage
>they don't even know what it does
>they just get riled up by reading a misleading headline suggesting that it replaces "mount" or another component
>they proceed to make the same stale systemd-[something] joke

Those discussion are a huge, obnoxious deja-vu. Remember that one time when people were outraged and thought "machinectl" replaced "su"?
Is there a word for such people? Idiots who aren't really familiar with something, but are ready to jump on and take a strong stance about it? A stance that's mostly contrarian, just so they can appear "smart" for a moment?

>>56210197
It's bloated, it's monolithic, it's a textbook example of the blob and the golden-hammer software design anti-patterns, I could go on and on.

>>56210236

Posted with systemd-clover.

>>56210176

You're the ones who need to prove it's good, you cuck niggers. The burden of proof is on you.

>>56210229

If they've been named then the counter arguments have been too.
Why do you think I'm a "shill"? If you suspect me of being a "shill", then how come you're not questioning yourself as a "shill" for the other side?

There are two sides here:

>one side which admits that they're not poweruser enough to be affected by the alleged systemd downsides and which are smart enough not to spout subjective non-sense
>one side which doesn't admit that they don't really know what they're talking about, but want to feel smart and edgy by taking a stance for something that's not really affecting them and about which they don't really have knowledge about

I know on which side I'd rather be.

>>56210285
What, no. This is not one of those times.

>>56209505
source: my rear end

>>56210262

Says the guy posting with Firefox or Chrome or another web browser.
No, you couldn't go on. Maybe you could, but you'd just be parroting buzzphrases.

Do you like openrc?

>>56210272

I don't get it. Were you trying to mock those people by making the exact same joke or are you one of those people? The fact that it's indistinguishable should worry you.

>>56210294

List of counter-arguments:

>lel that's not a problem
>but systemd is the future, anon! you don't wanna be on the wrong side of history, do you?
>well, at least systemd isn't decades-old code!
>if it's good enough for Canonical and Red Hat, then it's good enough for me!

>>56210285
No, the Systemd developers need to prove its worth to the distro maintainers for them to adopt it (which most did).
Then the distro maintainers need to prove its worth to the end users to keep them using their distro (most do).

>>56210335

The fact that you systemd shills keep pulling us back into metadiscussion in order to derail us from debating actual software and its merits (or demerits) is what really worries me.

>>56210350

>which most did
Political.

>most do
End users are not developers, they will eat literal shit if they're fed that.

>>56208940
Mint.
It's right at the top of the pic related list FFS.

>>56210391
This. Use doesn't determine if software is good or not. Reminder that most people use Windows.

>>56210391
But you aren't fed anything in Linux.
There are literally hundreds of distros that don't have systemd.

But for some reason, nobody uses them.

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>>56209851
????

Gentoo has that already :)

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>>56210294

>Unix way
>operating system architecture
>subjective non-sense

Whoa, might as well just use Windows at this point!

>>56210410
Because nobody uses Linux in general, retard. Everyone uses Windows or Mac.

>>56210451

I am using the Linux kernel. I am not using the Unix operating system.

>>56208940
Gentoo

>>56210489
>it's okay to not do things the right way or the best way if you just say you're not a part of it
How is this a valid counter-argument?

>>56210169
>Gentoo is not bleeding edge.
Why not?

>>56210530

It isn't. Goes to show the retarded brainlogic of stupid systemd-tards.

>>56210489

>the unix operating system

Wanna know how I know you're a tech-illiterate?

>>56210530

Who has objectively determined that it's the right way? I can tell that you're also a hypocrite because you're using software that isn't sticking to the "UNIX philosophy", but it's apparently okay for you to be a hypocrite, as long as it's for software you like.

>>56210573

How?

>>56210599

You said "the unix operating system". Unix isn't a single operating system, it's:

1- a family of operating systems

2- an operating system philosophy

>>56210587

Yeah, but I'm not running it in supervisor mode.

>>56210550
Gentoo has stable releases by default but you can switch to unstable releases. The same is true for Manjaro.

>>56208940
Slitaz

>>56210628

>[0]UNIX is a general-purpose, multi-user, interactive operating system
Written by Thompson and Ritchie themselves.

[0] https://ia802709.us.archive.org/21/items/bstj57-6-1905/bstj57-6-1905.pdf

>>56209196
You're not a dev. You're right.

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Did anyone ever ask stallman about his opinion on Systemd?

Let the Stallman decide!

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Red Hat is bought and paid for by the U.S. military. What better way to infiltrate a highly fragmented but more secure OS that isn't Microsoft-based than to push a new init system (effectively taking entire control over daemons, processes, permissions, network etc. etc.) This all pushed into the main distros seemingly even although the shitware was not finished in any sense, even for stable distros like Debian.

Now, the "init system" has expanded and is expanding still to take over practically everything that used to be done with modular components.

So what if a server OS boots 3 seconds quicker? Who gives a shit? Stick an SSD in and never have to worry.

Besides, if I was wanting to take over an enormous software project with no central authority other than kernel development, which is difficult because of the well-known Linus Torvalds (who even alluded to being approached and asked to subvert the kernel), doing it by forcing an init system and then make whole desktop environments like GNOME depend on it would be a smart move.

As always, however, follow the money:

>"When we rolled into Baghdad, we did it using open source," General Justice continued. "It may come as a surprise to many of you, but the U.S. Army is 'the' single largest install base for Red Hat Linux. I'm their largest customer."

>Any fool should realize that "biggest customer" doesn't mean tallest or widest, it means the most money. In other words, most of Red Hat's money comes from the military and, as a result, they have significant pull in its development.

Also:

>Next, the FOSDEM: NSA Operation ORCHESTRA Annual Status Report is well worth watching in its entirety (including the Q&A at the end). To me, this turned out to be a road-map detailing how Red Hat is operating on Linux!"

https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=14/02/20/031231

>>56210657
>by default
Gentoo's “defaults” are a minor suggestion at best

>>56210825
Trisquel and Parabola have systemd, so he's OK with that.

>>56210825
gNewSense, which what Stallman uses, has no systemd.

Enough for you?

>>56210951
>>56210966
Battle it out guys

>>56210729
>>56210628
>>56210573

I guess you're technology illiterate then.

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>>56210729

>we're still in 1979 and there's still only one Unix around

>>56210825
>>56210951
>>56210966
>>56211013
He said it's free software so he doesn't give a fuck.

>>56211274
[citation needed]

>>56211247

>claims that unix isn't a stand-alone operating system, but merely a family
>the creators themselves call it an operating system

Nice moving of goalposts there or whatever you're doing.

>>56210835
The military chose the largest of the only 2 viable Linux vendors? What a surprise!

>>56210410
>There are literally hundreds of distros that don't have systemd.
>if you don't like it just use something else, that's the beauty if Linux!
>use other distro
>LOL FUCKING EDGELORD, WHY DO YOU USE THIS MEME OBSCURE DISTRO

there is no winning. You could say that one shouldn't care of opinions of /g/ but then that means you're not able to have any sort of meaningful discussion about those kind of software.

Just pop in to /fglt/ where we had a discussion about LXQt being shit because it didn't look like gnome3, and wicd was shit because it wasn't network-manager

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>>56211372

Yes! What a surprise!!1

>>56209063
>Devuan GNU+Linux is a fork of Debian without systemd.
Looks like I found my next distro.

>>56211447
please do try it, I've been playing a bit with it so haven't found any problems yet. I'd like to know if it has any

>>56211339

>What is HP-UX?
>What is AIX?
>What is Ultrix?
>What is System V?
>What is IRIX?
>etc...

It's like this is your first time talking about this subject so you just quickly Google shit up and settle for the first search result.

>>56211435
What is the point of your reply?

>>56211397
>Linux Mint
So obscure
Much meme

>>56211447
Happy user here, the maintainers are heroes. You find more packages by the hour, is amazing how many.

>>56211497
what?

>>56211435
>avahi
another piece of shit, now I know why

Systemd is bad because it's just badly designed, buggy and doesn't handle dependencies very well. Now can you move on with your lives and stop making a thread about this everyday?

>>56211494

Are you stupid or just ignorant?

>>56211497
Linux Mint switched to systemd retard

>>56211520
Have you look at the OP? We are exchanging information on systemd-free distros.

The shills hijacking to talk shit is not our fault.

>>56210835
>who even alluded to being approached and asked to subvert the kernel
He later claimed to have done it for comedic effect

>>56211545
Gentoo, Funtoo, Void Linux, Debian (if you build it from source). Now please stop making these threads about systemd, it's such a mundane topic to discuss.

>>56211569
>He later claimed to have done it for comedic effect

Of course he did. I'm sure living his nice, easy care-free life in burgerland was better than ending up in a horrific "accident" in the middle of nowhere.

>>56211584
Relax and let people discuss alternatives.

>>56211622
Well alright, since you're so polite :). It's just that it's a topic which has been discussed back and forth for so many years and it should've been closed by now, yet people still talk about it like it's big news somehow. Just use a different init system if you don't like it, it really isn't that hard.

>>56211525
>military wants to deploy Linux machines
>picks the company that easily shits all over its competition
>le military chose le Redhat because lennart works for them conspiracy xxxxxxddd

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>>56211584
>Debian (if you build it from source)
wut

>>56211620
>people can't make a joke
do you really think the NSA is stupid enough to ask linus to implement them a backdoor with a straight face?

be serious

>>56211651
>Just use a different init system if you don't like it, it really isn't that hard.
It is for armchair sysadmins and peanut gallery attendees who don't even interact with their init system

>>56211683
You can get a minimal install of Debian from their site. You basically build it from source and can build it with a different init system other than systemd.

>>56211584
>mudane
>the actual pivotal moment when GNU + Linux became a subverted tool compromised by the powers that be.

Linux is no longer trust worthy, and you think it is a non-subject.

>>56211706
Link to that?

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>>56211670

>military wants to deploy Linux machines
>picks the company that easily shits all over its competition

Completely missed the point. In fact, this is a red herring. We're not arguing who shits over who.

>>le military chose le Redhat because lennart works for them conspiracy xxxxxxddd

So you're just stupid then. The military did not choose Red Hat because any one person works there. Lennart working for Red Hat implementing their shitware is the point. It's not a conspiracy if it is observed fact, you fucking dunce.

>>56211685
>do you really think the NSA is stupid enough to ask linus to implement them a backdoor with a straight face?

Why would they not? It is not stupid just because of your incredulity. That is fallacious.

>>56211743
Just look at the source code :^)

>>56211706
>>56211760

Then nothing works. Almost any packages you want need systemd as a dependency.

>>56211773
This actually makes sense, but still Poettering is the main developer and PR face of all this. I mean, so much shit have been released by the same man, it can't be coincidence.

File: DSC_0100.jpg (869KB, 2160x3028px) Image search: [Google]

869KB, 2160x3028px

what are you drinking tonight, /g/?

>>56211818
Not really.

>>56211907

Actually, yes.

>>56211905
ladies and gentleman heres your average systemd-less user,

>monster
>shitty low res TN monitor
>neet
>lxde

remember to keep systemd installed

>>56211743
Linux always was a tool, no offence but you're a fool if you think that there are zero backdoors in it.

>>56211760
https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/

>>56211955
>neet
you wish lmao

>>56211943
Actually no. If a program needs dependancies in order to run then it usually will contain those with it. Gnome for example contains some systemd dependencies in order to run without needing systemd.

>>56209159
>vendor lock in
>hundreds of distros
okay, grandpa.

>>56209721
turbo autism background

>>56211986
>If a program needs dependancies in order to run then it usually will contain those with it

No shit.

>contains some systemd dependencies in order to run

I don't even want those. Why pollute my system. Still, I never use GNOME anyway so whatevs.

>>56212072
Your post was ""Then nothing works" but that was wrong, and that's where I wanted to correct you. You don't need systemd in order to run something which needs its dependencies.

>I don't even want those. Why pollute my system.

It's not actually systemd running on your pc, just some dependencies required for the software to run. If you don't want those either then look for a desktop environment which doesn't depend on systemd.

>>56211685
Yes, 100%
I believe the people deciding on who gets hired and how things are run at the NSA are 60 years old and tech illiterate, so I can imagine they send an operative out to ask Linus exactly that, and make it sound threatening, thinking he owns Linux, and Linux == OSS.

>>56211829
He's the fall guy.

>>56209162
This analogy is really bad because e.g. sockets and journalctl are really well integrated and it makes sense for them to be there.

>>56211965
The Debian netinstall does not compile from source.

>>56211462

I don't see the Linux kernel and Linux distributions on your list.

>>56212108
The post was about building a system from a base install. Nothing WILL work unless you compromise and choose not to use what you want to. Choosing not to use systemd is a choice to not use a majority of the software we could previously.

>>56211905

Ubij se.

>>56211905
>Linux 3.16
Is this a fucking joke?

>>56212144
You can compile it from source. It's not necessary to complete the install but it's an option.

>>56212166
rude

>>56212168
why would you need anything higher

>>56212165
No, I've already posted twice for you that you don't need systemd in order to run software which needs its dependencies. Gentoo uses OpenRC for example and still can run Gnome and other systemd dependant software.

>>56212145

You should be looking on the CERT Advisories list.

>>56212108

Perhaps it's better now but a while ago when I used it, it was ass. Changed now to a non-systemd distro and couldn't be happier.

>>56212196
>Gentoo uses OpenRC for example and still can run Gnome and other systemd dependant software.

Yes, at the moment. Wayland will require systemd, further causing headaches. See the problem? Things are becoming more dependent on systemd, not less.

>>56212192
>You don't NEED newer stuff
>My animus run just fine on this Thinkpad T60 I stole from a bum behind the Walmart dumpster.

>>56212234
>Wayland will require systemd

Source? Wayland is just a display server, it shouldn't need systemd in any way.

>further causing headaches
If it did cause issues then the open source community would try to shift away from it and stop using it. So far some people like using it so it's here to stay, but you're free to use one of the gazillion alternative init systems out there.

>>56212259
we don't have walmart here

>>56212269
>Wayland is just a display server
Wayland is just a protocol you idiots

>>56212192

Because of this[0] and countless others which don't get backported if you're not using a proper LTS kernel.

[0] https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2016-5696

>>56212396
It's also a compositor if you eant to be specific.

>>56212502

It's not. Weston is a reference compositor implementation for Wayland.

>>56210835
I doubt that Red Hat could influence its developers to insert a backdoor. The military doesn't even need Red Hat in order to bribe or blackmail its devs.

>>56212572

I doubt Lennart would need any influencing. He is a massive faggot.

File: DSC_0102.jpg (1MB, 2160x2177px) Image search: [Google]

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>>56211955
>>56212259
there, is this better

>>56212572
Don't forget how many partners the NSA has, probably RedHat was an important contractor, thus it might be a facilitator for backdooring Linux. So yes, they are probably partners.

>>56212502
No it's not, it's literally just a fucking protocol

File: The_Linux_Graphics_Stack_and_glamor.svg.png (118KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

118KB, 1280x720px

>>56212520
>>56212637
I can read a wikipedia page too!

>>56212675
Unlike you I didn't need to open any wikipedia page to know the very fucking basics of the technology I'm talking about, you moron

>>56212675

Why is the place from where an information comes from relevant if it's true?
Did you read that "Wayland Compositor" text in the purple box on the left and think that Wayland is a compositor? You should have read the text below it which lists Weston, Mutter or Kwin, because those are the compositors. You just proved yourself wrong with your image.

>>56212630
How could Red Hat convince a dev to risk putting a backdoor in open source software where everyone knows who pushed what code? I don't think Red Hat has their own mafia. The military could just use an agent with a baseball bat.

>>56209206

What do you mean? Internet Explorer didn't lock anybody in. The other browsers just weren't on par.

I wish this "durr micro$uck is ebul" maymay would die.

>>56213807
>Internet Explorer didn't lock anybody in. The other browsers just weren't on par.
Good joke

Internet Explorer has been the shittiest and least secure browser by a gigantic marging pretty much for the majority of its existence

Everybody and I mean EVERYBODY who was not an absolutely tech illiterate mouthbreathing moron used firefox back in the days

Internet explorer's popularity was PURELY because it came preinstalled on Windows and microsoft tried to keep it that way. (Until they got hit hard by antitrust)

Even today, google chrome's popularity is purely because it's advertised on google.com

>>56213893

Firefox only came to be in 2002, you uninformed nigger.

Just install openRC instead then you fucking retard

>>56212602
>manually installing screenfetch where is your package manager

>>56208997
cause if some simple not important process of it fail makes all the important process fail too

>>56209053
glad that you leave to BSD, we were all newbies at some point, we need more people using linux and the fact that people can install it shows how mature it has become.
>2017 year of the linux desktop finally

>>56213995

xbps-install -Su screenFetch

>>56208940

Devuan but is still in beta. Your best hope, OP.

https://devuan.org/

>>56213949
I've been using Firefox since v1, what the fuck exactly am I supposed to be uninformed about?

>>56213995
>using a package-manager for a one file shell script

>>56214233

You just proved me right: the only browser that could (barely) compete with IE didn't come until 2002, almost 7 years late.

>>56214377
If you want to go back further, look at what happened to Netscape

>>56214701

It was butchered by IE. What's your point?

>>56214950
>What's your point?
That Microsoft leveraged its power to force Internet Explorer down normies' throats by shoving it in their face and preinstalling it on their OS?

Are you daft or is this really that hard for you to follow?

>>56215020

So? Firefox also comes bundled with Linux, and Safari with Apple. Is it only wrong when Microsoft does it? Did "normies" not have a choice to install something else?

Microsoft didn't force anyone. Deal with it.

>>56211905
>uptime of 6mins
Showed them!

>>56215496
>Safari with Apple.
You can remove Firefox and Safari. Try removing IE. MS told the EU that it couldn't be done.

>everyone that has a problem with systemd hates it because of non-technical reasons

Why don't you assholes wake up and realize simplifying a system doesn't make it worse. You assholes that want shit to break so you have something to do can stop talking and use something else. You're the reason why linux sucks. You want to continue to cripple linux for no reason. Red hat is doing its best to prop linux up while every other company steals the hard work it has done for over 20 years and you morons want to go back to the stone age. The story of linux is like the story of a society. One man starts out with and idea and others follow him and create the beginning of something great. Then all the self entitled assholes swoop in and scream and yell about everything they want. Then others come and try to fix it because the system everyone wanted has become a shithole because no one could agree on anything and everyone decided to do their own thing. Then everyone hates the people who try to fix the system to make it more productive and beautiful because it wasn't exactly what they wanted.

God, technology will not stop being a clustefuck until people stop being a clusterfuck

>>56218310
systemd does not just simplify the system.
!It - does - too - much!

That's why it is hated.