/retro/ - retro, vintage, old computers

PC tech wagecuck here. Gotta say, love when the old stuff comes in.
>toggle switches
>that hum of the old monitors
>red, orange or green faggot? Lol

It's just fun. And it's amazing how durable that old shit is. Got a compaq portable 3 that still boots, works fine.

Before we begin, the following people/things are banned from this thread:

1. That dude's Apple II terminal pics
2. That other dude's IBM AT terminal pics
3. Complaining about Ebay prices
4. Obnoxious circlejerk posts like "Wow dude, your system looks awesome XD"
5. People who complain derp why wud u want 2 use old shit like dat
6. Copypasted Lemon 64 posts
7. Advertisements/shilling for 1541 Ultimates or other crap like that

>>56145091
>red, orange or green faggot? Lol
What are you referring to?

>And it's amazing how durable that old shit is.
Indeed, the build quality of most of the old shit is amazing.

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>>56145131
Topkek, witness the butthurt!

you won't get a qt gf restoring old computers

>>56145167
Too late, already got one.

>>56145139
>Indeed, the build quality of most of the old shit is amazing.

Yeah all those Commodore 64s blowing their PLA chips out of the box were the apex of good build quality.

>>56145263
>most of the old shit

>>56145091
Is this 1994?

>like you get anything older than about 2002 in for repairs.

>>56145291
I think the lengthy repair threads on VCFED argue otherwise. Come on, I bet you also think a 1950s car is as durable as a modern one.

RAM and hard disks especially are far more reliable than they were in 1984.

>>56145333
>>56145405
IDK. I knew a guy who took his Altair 8800 with genuine 1975-vintage ICs in it to computer shows and ran it for a couple hours a day with nothing bad happening.

>>56145300
Not him but.
There are so many collectors and retro fags who don't know shit about electronics themselves and who give in their shit for repairs. You can easily make money just doing even that.

>>56145405
>>56145482

Yeah, I've had shit that had been thrown out of second floor windows and still worked, even hard drives.
Sure chip fabrication has advanced, but still most of the old chips still work, also they don't blow the second you fuck up with them and many can even run on less cleaner power than todays.

But I guess the build quality refers more to the design of the systems, less tiny circuitry and glue, more robust materials.

>>56145131
I agree with some of this, but these threads would just get out bumped and die without them.

>>56145300
My dad worked at a Radio Shack circa 2000 and sometimes people actually did bring in TRS-80s and junk like that but they were told "Shit, nigger, we can't fix this old crap. This isn't flappin' 1985."

So that's why I call bunk on >>56145091

Anybody know what makes an old CRT image start to jitter up and down as it warms up? Vsync maybe?

>>56145187
You wouldn't lie on the Internet, would you?

>>56145333
>>56145861
There was a guy on VCFED who complained his Compaq Portable that he restored kept eating RAM chips. He kept blaming it on the Louisiana weather and 30 year old NOS chips he bought, when he seemed unable to figure out that he probably had bad capacitors that were causing an overvoltage condition (he claimed the Compaq was in poor condition when he got it).

>>56145915
Yeah, some people are not very tech savvy. That's how a lot of things get bad reputation.

>>56145915
If he had that many problems, he should just get one of these.

https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/Lo-tech_1MB_RAM_Board

>>56145927
And he can send it to >>56145091 who will assemble one for him.

>>56145927
That would have not fixed the problem with the caps.
Mostly caps that are 20 years+ will be dead even if they look fine, this causes a lot of problems with that old tech.

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Here it is. He claims the PSU in the computer is fine, but I highly suspect bad caps were killing his RAM. It's not normal for that many to fail in such a short amount of time. The one other guy actually points out the possibility of this, but it doesn't seem to register with him.

>>56145875
Radio Shack is bull anyways, small businesses are the thing to go to.
The guys who work from home are even better, sometimes you see ads like "TV repair".

>>56145954
Actually it's a problem most of the time when you let electronic devices sit powered off for a long period of time. It causes the capacitors to dry out, thus it's good to power stuff on once in a while and "exercise" them.

I got an old tektronix 2247a oscilloscope, but it wont turn on. instead it 'chirps'. what part of the PSU is broken?

>>56145979
"Absolutely a possibility. But I've already scoped out the power supply and..."

Good PSU =/= bad caps on the motherboard or cards.

>>56145979
Yeah, I have seen shit like that before.
A full recap is always recommended even before you fire the thing up specially it has been sitting in a shed for years.

>>56146004
Is only a problem with electrolytic caps though? I don't think this applies to tantalum caps.

>>56146004
Sadly most sit in a basement and don't see the light of day for decades.

>>56146021
He didn't say where it was stored, other than that it was in bad condition.

You can also replace 4164s with 41256 chips by grounding one pin; those are extremely reliable. The Amiga and Atari ST AFAIK have 41256 RAM in them and I've rarely heard of RAM failures in those.

>>56145979
>>56146066
I remember one thread where a guy powered on his original Apple II from 1978 after more than 25 years (it hadn't been used since 1984). He took it out of its official Apple cloth zip-up bag and it worked fine.

>>56146070
It does seem that RAM overall got more reliable when they switched to SIMMs instead of single chips. IDK why. Maybe the chips are protected better due to not having direct contact with the system board.

http://rkirchhof.com/Electromigration.html

And remember, if a chip goes bad you can always try reviving it with the oven trick much beloved of PC graphics card fags. This won't work if it got fried from ESD or a bad power supply though.

>>56146097
>sitting in a zipped cloth bag
>as opposed to sitting in a barn and used as a mouse nest for years

>>56146028
I don't think they make tantalum caps anymore. At least, I can't find any for sale other than NOS, but you can just replace them with any electrolytic cap of the same rating.

>>56146097
Yeah, I had a XT that had been sitting in a basement for 23 years and fired it up and it worked too.
But a 486 I had that only had been unused for almost 20 years died after half an hour of use, you never know.

>>56146122
Yeah, I figured that out myself too and found about it online too.

>>56146111
I once had a problem with a 256k stick in a 386 PC. The computer passed the POST test, but it wouldn't detect the joystick port which indicated a problem in the bottom of memory where the BIOS data area is located.

http://stanislavs.org/helppc/bios_data_area.html

0040:0010 is where this data is stored. Apparently there was a stuck bit here. I also kept getting random Parity Check errors while using the computer. After installing a different SIMM, the problem went away and I regained use of the joystick.

>>56146097
There was another guy who cleaned up an incredibly dirty IBM PC with playing cards jammed in one disk drive (wtf) but it worked, passed the POST, and went to cassette BASIC.

>>56146236
POST tests aren't that good and will often miss memory faults especially if it's a very small one like a stuck bit in one RAM chip.

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>>56146014
Here is a pic of the back of the supply
What could cause this burnt spot? I took out the nearest capacitor but I have nothing to test it with ;~;

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>>56146313
Here's the top of that area

>>56145979
Generally speaking, Japanese brands of RAM from this period were considered the best quality. In fact HP (who did not manufacture RAM themselves, thus could be considered a trustworthy, neutral source) did a study which determined that RAM made by NEC or Sharp or Panasonic were more reliable than RAM made by US manufacturers like TI, Fairchild, and Mostek.

This led to a lot of people buying Japanese instead of US RAM, so outraged manufacturers demanded restrictions on imports of the stuff. The Reagan Administration obliged, leading to a RAM shortage for a while in the late 80s.

>>56146122
>>56146229
Gee, I wonder how many VIC-IIs, SIDs, and TEDs could have been saved if only more people thought to try this.

>>56145979
Further down in that same thread, a guy said his Atari 800 had never had bad RAM despite it using the failure-prone 4116s.

>>56146378
The first two maybe, the TED maybe not because it was really the lousy manufacturing process that causes them to fail at an alarming rate.

>>56146122
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2010-09-04-fixing-an-atari-400-screen-issue.htm

His ANTIC seems to have suffered an electromigration failure. I bet the oven trick would have worked here, too bad he didn't know that.

>>56146122
Shorted ICs usually get really hot and you'll burn your finger if you touch them. If a failed chip runs at a normal temperature, it's more likely an open circuit caused by electromigration or some other such failure.

>>56146486
I guess that's what he meant with "fried"

>>56146736
You done goofed now

>>56146736
You really miss the 90's? Don't you?

>>56146736
could you post that wallpaper please?

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>>56146810

>>56145300
>>56145875
I'd believe it, local hole-in-the-wall electronics stores tend to have lots of old customers still running aging shitboxes into the ground, my fucking XT was still being used by its previous owner until 2005.

There's also shit like trade-ins/disposal that makes that stuff accumulate as well.

>>56145333
>Come on, I bet you also think a 1950s car is as durable as a modern one.
they actually are though, they're just not very safe because the same design that makes them more resistant to damage from fender benders makes them a deathtrap at high speeds

>>56146736
>MS-DOS prompt on Windows NT
>that unskinned show desktop icon
>The MSN/Mail shitware icons that nobody uses on real 9x
Nigger, if you're going to be a nostalgic hipster, do it right.

>>56146972
This. The car will be fine. The people inside will be bounced around like eggs in a hurricane.

My grandfather said when he was a kid in the 50s that you'd drive down Route 5 in California on the weekends and there were always wrecked cars by the roadside with dead or dying people hanging out of them. Gruesome.

>>56147190
Don't you just hate it when dead people are hanging out by the side of the road.

>>56147018
Kek

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I'm partying like it's 1999

>>56147190
FWIW drunk driving was not seen as a big deal in those days.

derp why wud u want 2 use old shit like dat

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Anyone know how I can find more out about the CPU through Windows 98?

All I gots is this.

>>56147578
This bait is sub /b/ quality.

>>56147632
>dxdiag

Also CPU-Z

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

>>56147632
I think CPU-Z should still work on it.

>>56147656
Not still, but again.
They added back Win98 support what was missing for a while.

>>56145131
You don't get to dictate what people post, fuck off.

>>56147674
>>56147656
>>56147634
Huh, better give that a go.

I doubt this thing can support usb2.0 sticks, and I can't network it. I'll have to burn a CD.

While I'm at it, any other software I should throw on it? Any good game recommendations? (All I know is it lags *slightly* on Quake when things get busy.)

>>56147762
>can't network it
How did it browse to /g/ then?

>>56147687
Confirmed for one of the trolls mentioned on the list.

>>56147797
Nevermind, I see there are two Win98 machines here.

>>56147505
>ModPlug Player
>Eiffel 65

I'm not trying to be a nostalgia fag, but 1999 was awesome

>>56147632
WCPUID works in win98

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1541s are pretty shitty desu. The Alps mech ones get out of alignment and the Newtronics ones have a drive head that wasn't sealed properly leading to a high failure rate.

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>>56145131
You triggered?

>>56145131
Why the fuck is complimenting /retro/battlestations banned? Fuck you.

Reddit.com/r/retrobattlestations for actually friendly retro discussion.

>>56145131
>mooom, I went to a thread I didn't even make and posted rules for it, now everybody tells me to fuck off!

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>>56147969
He triggered.

>>56148022
I'm pretty sure that's running a 8088, aka XT clone, he was talking about an AT.

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>>56148055
He's just too stupid to tell the difference, even where there has been discussion on this kind of threads about it.
This is my XT clone and yes, he was referring to me.

>>56145131
fuck off back to >>>/vr/ you autistic piece of shit
this is why /retro/ failed

friendly reminder to ignore faggots like this
the second they try to enforce rules and an "official" sticky it's over

>>56147762
>I doubt this thing can support usb2.0 sticks
they do, it's backwards compatible
I use a little 1 GB datatraveler and it works just fine on Windows 95/NT4 and up, probably would work with DOS/3.x too but I never tried it

>>56148177
Just had a quick check. The thing doesn't even have a USB port. It really shouldn't be running windows 98...

>>56148011
I wanted to start the thread myself but I didn't because now 4chan has this gay shit that you're only allowed 5 threads per IP and I would have been maxed out.

>>56148243
you can stick a USB card in it

honestly don't bother wasting a CD-R on some 2 MB program, just open the damn thing up and pop off the heatsink, you'll get more info that way anyway

>>56148340
If he's gonna do that he might as well just put in a network card and be done with it.

>>56148361
he'd still need to get drivers on it though, flash drives are way more convenient than dealing with the afterthought that was networking on 9x anyway

>>56148011
>>56148158
That anon does have a point with a lot of that though. There's no purpose in this general existing if it's just a 24/7 circle jerk with no new content being created or actual discussion. If anons can't keep up creating new content to discuss then this thread should be dialed back to once weekly.. The Comfy Shitposting Device general was a good example of this, it went on for a while with new content in every thread, then it became less common when every thread became the same shit over and over again and was eventually killed instead of kept on life support with no real new content.

>>56148410
>dialed back to once weekly.

No need, it does not bother anyone if one is running 24/7, there are GPU and Maki threads on /g/ what do not deserve board space at all, this thread is not violating any rules, if you don't like it, don't post in it.

/g/ is a faster board then /vr/, once weekly would mean the thread would be over in a matter of hours.

>>56148410
there IS no purpose in this general existing, but that doesn't mean you need to turn it even more to shit with the same autism and "stop posting things I don't like" mentality that makes the /vr/ retrocomputing threads so boring and shitty

stop fucking worrying about it and just discuss old shit, if the occasional "hey your computer is really nice anon" post is really triggering you that much, make your own thread about "new content" YOU want to discuss and fuck off to it, maybe I'll even participate in it

>>56148466
>if you don't like it, don't post in it.
They don't get it anon, useless to tell them.

As soon as I'm done getting it running, I'll post pics of my Sun Cobalt Qube server.

>>56148521
>"stop posting things I don't like"
Kek, I always think people like this are trolls, but I begin to realize that they actually exist.

>>56148536
Holy shit, that little thing must be awesome!
Can't wait!

>>56148466
>once weekly would mean the thread would be over in a matter of hours.
Um, no. These threads still manage to be up for a day or 2 at a time before hitting the bump limit or being archived due to lack of interest.

>>56148521
>"stop posting things I don't like"
The problem isn't that I don't like it, the problem is that these 24/7 general threads attract even more reddit types to this site than there already are and it's killing this site.

>>56146998
>>MS-DOS prompt on Windows NT

There exists command.com on NT5.x, not sure about NT6.x though (the x64 versions surely don't have it as it's 16-bit code).

>>56145263
>>56145333
Tramiel-era Commodore were the most massive Jews and took ANY opportunity to cut costs. Their shit broke all the time even when it was new.

>>56148598
Fuck off.

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What are some old computers you'd wish to find/have /retro/?
I'd like to find one of those Programma 101 computers that's still intact

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>>56146998
>>56148629

Here pic

>>56148650
I mean, Apple IIs pretty seldom malfunction other than sometimes RAM.

>>56148686
I'm pretty happy with the stuff I have, but I do want a C64 and A1200.
Next thing I'm getting will be a C64 or related (C128, C64c).

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>>56148598
>The problem isn't that I don't like it, the problem is that these 24/7 general threads attract even more reddit types to this site than there already are and it's killing this site.
cry me a fucking river, this place has been shit for years

at this point I'd take a redditor with some cool content/discussion over the same low end 8-bit shit being reposted over and over again any day

>>56148686
always wanted to get my hands on a piece of real big iron, rent a cheap warehouse and allow public access

more realistically, I need a nice IRIX box

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>>56148810
>at this point I'd take a redditor with some cool content/discussion over the same low end 8-bit shit being reposted over and over again any day

>>56148686
To think that Olivetti management tried to thwart every effort in electronic computing makes me mad. Olivetti could easily have become the italian apple, if only management wasn't ferociously blind.

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>>56148092
Can confirm that's what he was referring to. We had this discussion 2 /retro/s ago.

>>56147990
Or Applefritter. Or Level29 BBS.
>>56148950

>>56148950
>stale lolcat memes that died off in 2007

Yep, and we're the reddit types...

Use /r/retrobattlestations. There aren't many dicks like this guy on there.

>>56148686


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I3biFudfn4

>>56149162
The great memes never die.

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>>56149592

>>56145263
The PLA was one of the first HMOS chips they made which explains the high failure rate.

"If your computer lasted longer than 3 years, I must have done my job wrong. After all, Commodore wanted to sell you a new machine."

-- Bil Herd

>>56149675
Three years seemed like a lot longer in 1985.

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>>56147865
I bought one last year for the case from an estate sale, wrongly assuming it would be dead/full of burst caps. Had been sitting in the attic since the 80s. Amazingly it worked perfectly fine. Ended up selling the internals on Ebay. They had four others the father had marked defective in Sharpie though.

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Cleaning up my shit...

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>>56147865
The 1541-II is better with the exception that a few of the more advanced copy protections sometimes break on it. This should however not be a problem if you're playing cracked games.

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LOL

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>inb4 yiff in hell

>>56150036
I'm curious what games don't work. I have heard that the drive mech in the 1571 is better than the one in the 1541-II which is better than the drive mech in the 1541.

The 1571 also has a switching PSU and not a linear one line the 1541s which is a big help with reliability.

>>56150088
>>56150073
Thank you for finally bringing some OC to the thread. +1000 Internets to you.

>>56149675
>>56149705
Computers had a lot more longevity in those days. I mean, the C64 lasted 10 years or more.

>>56150152
By accident rather than design. Commodore had very poor to nonexistent marketing/product planning and continued demand from Europe kept the thing going years past its intended sell date. Computer technology moved faster than you think at that time.

>>56150088
>>56150073
If that's a IIc, you can display those in DHGR if your GIF viewer supports it.

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wwww

>>56150088
>>56150073
I don't think any Commodore GIF viewers exist, but the C128 would probably be better for that due to the extra memory and higher VDC resolution.

>>56148092
sexy

@56150088
Emulators never do properly recreate the way Apple II graphics are supposed to look.

>>56150172
Yeah, there was certainly lots of new stuff coming out all the time, but there wasn't the same pressure to upgrade and planned obsolescence that we have now.

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>>56150247
>@

>>56150263
Computer technology is moving slower today than it did back then. As early as 1979, Apple were concerned about creating a successor product to the Apple II which was only 2 years old at the time.

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>>56150304
I heard how Processor Technology went under in 1979 because they were still peddling a 1976-vintage 8080 machine with no plans for a successor product.

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I cannot for the life of me figure out where the data sheet is for this part

Pls Help

>>56150390
The 8080 was hardly an underpowered CPU by 1979 standards, but people wanted Z80s which had an improved instruction set, didn't need an external RAM refresh circuit, and also didn't need triple voltage power. Once the Z80 came out, the 8080 was quickly written off as a dinosaur.

>>56150390
And yet, Apple were almost totally reliant on a computer that came out in 1977 until the Mac Plus finally made the Macintosh a legitimate computer platform.

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Want to play around with this dinosaur but don't know what to do with it.

>>56150456
serial terminal

>>56150455
To be fair, the Apple II had a giant software library to keep it viable which was not the case in the Sol-20's time when the things were just hobbyist's toys. But Apple were also making incremental improvements along the way while the Sol-20 remained absolutely unchanged for its 3-1/2 year existence.

>>56150499
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Processor_Technology

It was 2-1/2 years (December 76 to May 79) and they sold 10,000 of them which made the Sol-20 one of the most popular early personal computers.

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This is the Helios Disk System for the Sol-20. It's a monster with one huge motor driving both floppies and has to be seen in person to be believed.

>>56150073
>>56150088
You got a YouTube channel?

>>56150596
These bastards have a cast iron bottom which means they weight a good 60 pounds.

>>56150630
No, but I've been thinking of doing one.

>>56150200
>WinME
>horrible yellow GUI theme
>Daikatana

>>56146736
how

>>56150650
Do it.

>>56150263
>but there wasn't the same pressure to upgrade and planned obsolescence that we have now.
Now that's just nostalgia goggles talking. Unless you were exclusively dwelling in the home space where '70s tech was being kept on life support way past its shelf life by clever programmers and co-processors, you were shit out of luck with every new generation. Hardware was limited even when it was new, and the speed and feature set jumps from generation to generation were far more than the imperceptible 5% here and there we've seen for the last decade or so.

For the most part, you can still run 2016 software on even low-end 2006 hardware without a hitch. You couldn't say that about even a high-end PS/2 in 1996, not by a long shot.

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>>56145061
Fuck I have that mouse but it doesn't work anymore. I keep it as a memoir of the old library shop of my uncle.

>>56150648
That design just sounds cruel.

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Also acquired a SCSI tower I need to vet and remove the shit drives from and refurbish. Gonna take some real work to get that thing up and running again.

>>56150596
>>56150648
They're not very reliable either and you'd be better just attaching different disk drives to a Sol-20.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOL-20-TERMINAL-COMPUTER-ALTAIR-ERA-C4004-VINTAGE-RETRO-GATES-ALLEN-JOBS-HELIOS-/272344996723?hash=item3f6906db73:g:mo0AAOSwc1FXb09O

The fuck does Steve Jobs have to do with a Sol-20?

>>56150927
But what would you need the new software for outside of games? Did that much change with office/productivity software and terminal software for BBSes?

>>56151309
>Did that much change with office/productivity software and terminal software for BBSes?
Uh, yeah? Are you still using VisiCalc and WordStar? Do you boot into a TTY? Are you trying to imply that advances like real multitasking, WYSIWYG document processing, networking and ever-greater storage capacity and noticeably faster hardware are meaningless gimmicks that nobody wanted or benefited from in any way?

Yet at the same time, 5% theoretical performance gains, rehashes of Windows 95 and Office 2008 are just so compelling and pressuring everyone to upgrade so much more, in an age where new PC sales are skydiving without a parachute?

>>56149592
>>56149630
Man, always happy to see them!

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>>56149920
>oh look, its a collector

>>56150073
>>56150088
That's fucking awesome dude!

I'd just be happy if I could find a cheap working 5.25" floppy drive so I can backup my box load of old floppy disks.

>>56150088
>macfag
Unsurprising.

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>>56151617
Nope, it's an oldfag sysadmin who keeps his old stuff. It's still use...

>>56151668
We both know you have nothing of importance on those.

>>56150207
>C64
If I remember correctly, there are quite a few for GIF alone.
But there's probably other picture types it views better.

>>56150412
Is there no writing anywhere?

>>56151617
>liking multiple platforms and wanting to display them nicely when they aren't in use is bad
>liking to surround yourself with things you enjoy is bad
when will the cancer fuck off back to >>>/vr/
seriously, fucking go already and stop turning this place to shit

>>56150456
More?

not sure if this is the place to ask, but can someone recommend me a decent crt?

>>56151688
There's bound to be directions to buried treasure on one of them.

>>56151087
Looks interesting.
More info?

>>56150456
play with win9x abandonware, seems nice

it has a Cyrix 6x86 in it, right?

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>>56151765
Picture is of the Quadra 950, not the SCSI tower (that's literally just a tower case with two 50 pin Centronic SCSI connections and a power supply).

The Quadra 950 is a 64MB with 2 SCSI Drives, 1 2GB and 72GB.

Loaded with an OC'd processor:
Motorola 68040 @ 40mhz
and a PPC @ 80 mhz.

and 64 mb of ram, currently running Mac OS 8.1

>>56151799
That's fucking awesome.
Love the "always on" switch, so you could use it as a server.

>>56151829
Yea it works great. Also locks out the floppy drive and mouse/keyboard input so nobody can fuck with it.

>>56151578
>Do you boot into a TTY?
If a lot of websites today didn't require JS to function I could easily get by using the terminal in Linux and would be tempted to do so just so I could keep using some older hardware I like.

>Are you trying to imply that advances like real multitasking
Wasn't really a thing for personal computers in the 80s.

>WYSIWYG document processing
I can see people who didn't use that software professionally going without, just like how the average person today doesn't use the best available software for shit (ie, not everyone uses Photoshop today).

>networking
Until dialup internet came along, the averages person didn't care about that.

>ever-greater storage capacity
An advantage, so long as you actually do things that could take advantage of it.

>noticeably faster hardware
For word processing, doing your taxes, and connecting to BBSes?

One could easily comfortably use a late 70s PC into the late 80s for things like typing shit at home, doing your taxes, and going to BBSes (so long as it had the hardware to do that shit when it came out).

>>56151756
computer monitor:
>dirt cheap
used viewsonic
>loadsamoney
Intergraph InterView 28hd96

TV/RGB monitor:
>dirt cheap
Sony WEGA
>loadsamoney
Sony PVM/BVM

>>56151799
Can you still run 68k software when you have a PPC card in? Does it plug into the PDS slot?

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>>56151913
Yea, it's all software switchable, and it does plug into the PDS slot.

Though the Mac is capable of emulating 68k software when running off the PPC anyway.

>>56151672
Where do you see a Macintosh in that picture?

>>56151975
Hes confused by the Apple logo...

>>56151860
>Wasn't really a thing for personal computers in the 80s.
No shit, that's my point.

>I can see people who didn't use that software professionally going without, just like how the average person today doesn't use the best available software for shit (ie, not everyone uses Photoshop today).
People did. It doesn't mean the better software was a non-event, upgrading was expensive.

>Until dialup internet came along, the averages person didn't care about that.
But we aren't talking just about home users.

>An advantage, so long as you actually do things that could take advantage of it.
Storage and memory especially were pretty huge problems for developers and users alike even into the 2000s. The 10-20 MB disks common on PC clones in the '80s hit capacity pretty damn quick if you used your box more than occasionally.

>One could easily comfortably use a late 70s PC into the late 80s for things like typing shit at home, doing your taxes, and going to BBSes
Sure you could, but don't act like people did if they could help it.

>For word processing, doing your taxes, and connecting to BBSes?
Have you ever actually tried to use an 8088 or 286 for anything other than fucking around? That hardware was slower than molasses. Even the vendors knew it, let alone the people unfortunate enough to program those braindead pieces of shit.

Never was I implying you couldn't use the hardware, I'm implying that an upgrade was actually worth it back then.

>>56151965
Is it faster with emulated 68k code too?

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>>56152161
Theoretically, depends what software it's running.

This is the same benchmark on the 68k

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>>56145061

>>56151756
>>56151875
As an alternative RGB monitor, you could look at the Sony GVM series. They're broadcast monitors like the PVMs, but older. I found one for $15 on Craigslist; as far as I can tell the only major difference from PVMs is that they can't pull a sync signal from composite. That and it's beige instead of grey.

>>56152218
Can you do the benchmark with emulated 68k?

>>56152319
See >>56151965

>>56152300
Where are the stickers?

>>56152363
That's emulated 68k?
What's the score with the native 68k CPU then?

>>56152374
Oh nvm, that's a 68k benchmark suite? So the benchmark you do with the PPC ON is actually 68k emulation and not native PPC?

And this >>56152218 is native 68k?

Right?

>>56152374
See >>56152218

>>56152105
>No shit, that's my point.
??? We're talking about using late 70s machines in the 80s, why bring up something that wasn't used in the 80s?

>People did. It doesn't mean the better software was a non-event
You can't claim planned obsolescence when people easily did without the upgrade.

>But we aren't talking just about home users.
Businesses still seem to upgrade their shit rather regularly from what I've seen.

>The 10-20 MB disks common on PC clones in the '80s hit capacity pretty damn quick
If you kept installing new software yes, otherwise when I was younger I kept everything I typed up on 3 1/2" floppies (as I'd need to move whatever I typed between computers to actually print it) and had no problem with storage space using just a couple.

>Have you ever actually tried to use an 8088 or 286 for anything other than fucking around?
I used an old at the time 286 machine when I was younger a bit for typing shit and it had no problems with that (even when set to 6 MHz), didn't mess around with spreadsheets much but I did have a program for working with them and remember it being responsive the couple times I messed around with it. For BBSes your modem would be more of a limitation than your CPU.

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>>56152365
it's an image taken in 2008

>>56152389
I assume so, it's extremely hard to tell with software. it won't flat out tell you what mode it's running in.

>>56152105
>Have you ever actually tried to use an 8088 or 286 for anything other than fucking around? That hardware was slower than molasses. Even the vendors knew it, let alone the people unfortunate enough to program those braindead pieces of shit.
Still faster than a MOS, it depends how good the developer is.

>>56152426
I see, interesting nonetheless, what's the PPC card?
Where did you get it? They are quite hard to find I guess?

>>56151965
The little brown dot near "Logical RAM:" made me try to clean my screen....

>>56151799
Can we get a "nude" picture of the insides?

>>56152394
>??? We're talking about using late 70s machines in the 80s
The example I presented that you replied to with that was '80s->'90s, everything up the comment chain doesn't concern the '70s either.

When we're talking about microcomputers from the '70s to '80s, I would agree that there definitely isn't as much of a contrast, and progress definitely felt slower. They weren't expected to be fast or advanced, they were toys for hobbyists and small business owners. It wasn't until the craze of the '80s and more widespread adoption really got things into gear.

>You can't claim planned obsolescence when people easily did without the upgrade.
I never claimed planned obsolescence was a thing anywhere, it wasn't planned, it was the way it was.

>Businesses still seem to upgrade their shit rather regularly from what I've seen.
That doesn't have much to do with what I said, there.

>If you kept installing new software yes, otherwise when I was younger I kept everything I typed up on 3 1/2" floppies (as I'd need to move whatever I typed between computers to actually print it) and had no problem with storage space using just a couple.
Cool anecdote, but that doesn't really mean much since kids weren't really the majority of computer users. Large software suites, big spreadsheets, lots of letters, documents, tax returns, whatever, that shit added up fast.

>I used an old at the time 286 machine when I was younger a bit for typing shit and it had no problems with that (even when set to 6 MHz), didn't mess around with spreadsheets much but I did have a program for working with them and remember it being responsive the couple times I messed around with it.
Like I said, it's usable, but to claim that there was no reason to upgrade it is ludicrous. A 286 was fine if all you want to use is that kind of basic software, but if you wanted to do more, like run Windows, as an example, good fucking luck.

>>56152487
Can't argue with that, but it isn't really fair to compare the two like that, they were different chips for different jobs. The x86 chips were meant to be at least moderately performant for higher-end microcomputers, the 6502 was just meant to be cheap and a good value for what you got.

>>56152902
>The example I presented that you replied to with that was '80s->'90s
I thought it was that the 8 bit 70s tech home computers were only around for as long as it was due to tons of dedicated optimization to keep them running. If it's using 80s computers into 90s I'd agree that there were massive advances in what the average person could do with their home computers in the 90s that would make people want to upgrade.

>>56151683
How much BiFi do you eat daily?

>>56151727
no it is just 476-03904 like on the package

I know It is a power transistor that requires 100volts, but I don't know if you can just throw any other off the shelf 100v power transistor in there.

>>56150596
Holy shit, that's awesome!

>>56153012
>I thought it was that the 8 bit 70s tech home computers were only around for as long as it was due to tons of dedicated optimization to keep them running.
Wouldn't discount it, but I think simple affordability was the biggest factor. 68k and x86 chips were expensive, and needed more expensive implementations based on more expensive support chips. They delivered well enough for what they were, but for a home user, was it really worth $2,500 when all you wanted to do was play some games and tackle simple math problems?

>>56153012
>8 bit 70s tech home computers
70's? What?
What are we talking about?

>>56153985
What aren't you understanding?

>>56154022
What computers he means

>>56152300
kind of cozy anon

>>56154458
The past always seems cozy

>>56149592
>>56149630
Fucking awesome!

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>>56154516
Man, IBM design is awesome.

>>56154545
I actually dont know what IBM case is the once i posted
I also dont think its retro either

>>56154597
It's a 90's IBM RISC-based UNIX server.

>>56154597
This one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/7044-270-RS6000-System-with-375MHz-2-way-POWER3-II-Processor-Server-pSeries-IBM-/281787642395

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Anybody in Denver wants a Mac?

http://denver.craigslist.org/sys/5732303316.html


Man, I'd spend a thousand bucks there if I could go there.

>>56154736
Holy fuck, I live about an hour from Denver and was just planning on messing around there.

>>56154887
Have fun!

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>>56145131
>self circle-jerking of self-agreement, so consumed in talking and agreeing with himself he fails to see the cliff he walks off
ily<3

>>56154736
>All CPUs $10/each! All Monitors $10/each! All Keyboards and Mice $5/each! Hard Drives, CD Drives, Floppy Drives, Expansion Cards, ect. $5/each!
So what are the chances that this is some sort of scam where they rob/rape/kill you? That seems way to good to be true.

>>56155139
People already went there, this is a few days old ad, not a scam.

>>56155139
Don't go alone?

>>56155155
>Sale will be from 10:00 AM - 2:00 PM on Saturday 8/20, and from 12:00 PM until 6:00 PM on Sunday 8/21!
How did it happen already?

>>56155164
I guess money talks. Some people wanted to snatch the better parts before the sale.

>>56155139
I'm having to get rid of shitloads of Macs, instead of paying at the recycling center, I'd try to make some quick buck off from the at least, how does it sound too good to be true?

>>56154736
Holy shit, think of all those PPC and related expansions what you can buy for $5 and sell for $100 on eBay.

>>56154736
So what hardware there would be best for shitposting from instead of just about and using other internet services? Would any of the beige all in one Macs work or would I need something newer?

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>>56150088
YIFF IN H-

>>56155224
For shitposting and internet? Find the newest Mac with the most expansion there is.
The newer Mac with better specs the better shitposting machine it would be. Duh.

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>>56153043
Some... No detailed statistics available.

>>56155271
I'm doing a detailed study on the subject, I'd be pleased if you could document your BiFi consumption over the next 7 days starting from day.

>>56155243
So I take it as that's a no for those neat Compact Macintoshes then.

>>56155304
You could get away with some very slow shitposting with one of those Compact Macs with a '030.

>>56145131
People like you are exactly why /g/ is cancer and 4chan is dead. Fuck off and die, faggot.

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>using old computers

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Live in Croatia

Want to rebuild in first computer. Looking back I shouldn't have sold it I'm a retard.

Pentium MMX 233 Mhz
32 MB SDR RAM
S3 ViRGE
Sounblaster ?? I don't remember ;_; I remember I had the Creative MIDI player installed... Shit was awesome...

I can't FIND A SINGLE FUCKING PART.

FUCKING CROATIA HAS A NON EXISTENT RETRO SCENE.

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>>56150679
>>WinME
>>horrible yellow GUI theme
>>Daikatana
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

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>>56155271
amstrad ppc512?

File: krnl386_001.png (37KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

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>>56155450
sound blaster 16 most probably

>>56155450
>FUCKING CROATIA HAS A NON EXISTENT RETRO SCENE

m8 i live in northern louisiana. i think i have the biggest floppy disk collection in the region and possibly the entire arklamiss and arlatex wwww

i think i have 2000 Floppy disks

>>56155518
Is there anywhere where I can get that creative pack?

>>56155544
vetusware.com

>>56155518
>sound blaster 16
The Sound Blaster 16 WavEffects was released in 1997 as a cheaper and simpler redesign of the Sound Blaster 16. It came with Creative WaveSynth also bundled on Sound Blaster AWE64 Gold, a physical modeling software synthesizer developed by Seer Systems (led by Dave Smith), based on Sondius WaveGuide technology (developed at Stanford's CCRMA).[4][5][6] The WavEffects line also supports CQM synthesis for Adlib/OPL compatibility.

I think you're right I got my PC in 1997

>>56155556
http://vetusware.com/manufacturer/Creative/?author=830

;_;

>>56155568
http://vetusware.com/download/Creative%20AWE32%20Installation%20CD%201.0/?id=9144

>>56155582
>http://vetusware.com/download/Creative%20AWE32%20Installation%20CD%201.0/?id=9144
Thanks man! Awesome

>>56155497
Sparky, clean up that mess...
Are you sleeping with your computers?

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>>56155667
yes <3 i do lewd things with them

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>>56155736
Sparky, it said "Insert disk" not DICK.

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>>56155497
>amstrad ppc512?
Yes. Nice 640.

>>56148410
im don't know how to fitler threads the post

>>56155842
Kek

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>>56155288
Bad thing, i'm running out of bifi...
That's all have at the moment.

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>>56155271
Oh my fucking shitting god, i just fucking remember that game, my brother use to put me that game when i was a kid. FUCK, i always remembered the song of the game but never the game.

Anon, thank you so much, i had over 15 years looking for this game because nostalgia and i just found it here in /g/ from a random post.

Thank you again guys, thank you again 4chan, you just give me a little piece of my childhood.

>>56155861
Holy shit, running out of BiFi, that's the worst thing ever!

>>56150088
na straight into the gas chamber m8

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>>56155870
You are Welcome.
>>56155886
Yeah. I need a shopping day...

>>56155870

Here dude.

http://playdosgamesonline.com/alley-cat.html

>>56148092

Yo what is that keyboard?

>>56156118
A BLUE CHIP branded 83 key IBM Model F clone.

>>56156173
84*

>>56155139
Why the fuck would someone who wants to do that use such obscure, beat-up hardware to do it when they can just list a cheap iPhone and get plenty of much more gullible victims? You give them too much credit.

>>56155224
With the right browser and a pass you could probably do it from an SE/30, but good luck if you want full images, or a captcha. My Quadra can't even handle a typical /g/ thread without running out of memory halfway through.

>>56156173
Funny thing is, it's actually an 83 key keyboard, using the XT keyboard circuitry.
But it's designed like the 84 key Model F, the "Sys Req" key is there but it does nothing, there are no contacts under that key, just a spring..

>>56156432
What Quadra/specs do you have?

>>56156453
It's a 700 with 20 MB of RAM, thought of getting it up to 64 but getting to the slots is a bitch and it's running too well, I don't feel like I want to touch it.

>>56156514
Nice!
Just rip that bitch apart!
I just finished replacing the acid battery of death with a coin cell battery holder on my Q650.

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>>56155791
thanks m8
>>56155763
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

>>56150390
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av1bnWXde20

>>56155518
Man, those memories.

>>56146736
I need to learn how to fo this lmao.

>>56146972
haha no, cars back then had five digits on the odometer for a reason. And have you ever adjusted a carb before? Shit's fucking tedious.

>>56151860
>One could easily comfortably use a late 70s PC into the late 80s for things like typing shit at home, doing your taxes, and going to BBSes (so long as it had the hardware to do that shit when it came out).

Not really. How much Commodore PET stuff did you find in a typical software store in 1987? All that you'd have found was IBM and Mac stuff.

>>56157222
My grandfather's 57 Fairlane was all rusting out and leaking water within three years of purchase.

>>56155271
>>56155870
>>56155902
Samefagging aside, everyone and their mother knows about Alley Cat. There's nothing special about that game, so if you thought you were being cute...

>>56155529
>m8 i live in northern louisiana

Do you know the retard with the Compaq that kept eating RAM? 'Cause he's from LA.

>>56151693
C64 is a bit problematic due to the tiled graphics. It's not free-form bitmap like the Apple II or PC.

>>56157417
no idea

possible south louisiana which is flooded now

>>56150207
There are some C64 GIF viewers, there's even one for the C128 but it requires 64k of VDC RAM.

>>56152300
Roskilde?

>>56145167
I don't need one. Humans shouldn't reproduce any more.

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>>56157428
Not really.

http://www.ffd2.com/fridge/jpeg/
And there are many more like that.

You could also convert pictures to display like pic related, used in demos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAUprwhQTZY

>>56157727
Man, I thought the Apple II was awesome but this is magnificent

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a while back, someone posted this original early 2000's photo of his room

>>56157727
>Mer-people sex
Nice

>>56157863
Is that half of David Duchovny on that poster?

I tried a C128 GIF viewer (GDS) on VICE and imported onto a D64 image a GIF I saved with MS Paint and resized down to 320x200 resolution.

Turns out it didn't like the GIFs created by Paint and couldn't display it.

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>>56157629
>I don't need one. Humans shouldn't reproduce any more

>>56158001
It was probably 256 color, right? I know a lot of GIF viewers from that time are only designed for 16 color ones.

>>56157863
Man that tower is pretty sweet all them features

>>56155450
I am 99% confident that there are loads of people who have everything you can think of in their basements and forgot it's even there, only problem is finding them. I have an uncle who filled approx 3 or 4 basements of friends and relatives with old electronics and computers, you just need to get to know some hoarders.

>>56158110
I even have all the parts for hes shitbox just laying around.

If you think Ebay alone is responsible for ripoff prices, you're way off. There used to be a flea market in my town with a dealer (this was like 10+ years ago) that had tons of old electronics crap from computers to 1960 film projectors and electronic test equipment and stuff like that. Now, this was an old dude over 60 or something and he claimed he really didn't use the Internet or anything, but he was the mother of all scalpers. All of his shit was like over $100 or more.

>>56158154
Yup, there have been people like that since forever.

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>>56157863
fucking sexy as shit


this is my waifu <3

>>56158207
We know... we know...
You're obsessed with ME.

>>56152300
That has to be uncomfortable as fuck

>>56154458
>>56158315
I'm getting mixed signals here

>>56158016
kek

These old computers make me feel so nostalgic even though most of them were around before I was even born (1987).

anybody know where i can get the vicII chip for the c64

>>56151269
>http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOL-20-TERMINAL-COMPUTER-ALTAIR-ERA-C4004-VINTAGE-RETRO-GATES-ALLEN-JOBS-HELIOS-/272344996723?hash=item3f6906db73:g:mo0AAOSwc1FXb09O

You must be new to ebay or trying to get someone to buy your garbage

>>56152218
lol at the icon peepin on the right of the screen

Any ideas for cheap systems that run DOS natively? Preferably ones with plentiful ebay listings

>>56159397
Anything using 8088 to 486.

>>56159334
Try eBay?

>>56159429
most hardware up to P3 era will run with DOS
infact, there's many DOS games that need better than a 486, LBA2/GTA/Quake come to mind

>>56151860
>Wasn't really a thing for personal computers in the 80s.
It is the year of our lord 2016

>>56159699

new thread

>>56159643
But considering compatibility wanting to run real DOS 6.22 and below that, it should be a 486 or lower.
But yeah, if you want to play Quake and newer games like that, 486DX4 or Pentium at least.

ACTUAL NEW THREAD

>>56159761
>>56159761
>>56159761

>>56159767
Thanks

>>56159767
That's good.

>>56159748
at least recommend a P133-P200, while 486's get up to 100Mhz (afaik), they're more commonly 66MHz or lower, which just isn't ideal for late-generation DOS games (~1996+)
they're probably no harder to find, i'd imagine it'd be trickier to find good sound and video cards for DOS systems than compatible CPUs and motherboards

>>56160407
You'd be better of with a Win9x machine then, than a pure DOS machine.

>>56160647
i'm not the first person, all i'm saying is that not every DOS game will work great on a 486
just something for him to consider

>>56152416
So, before the HRT?