Best distro without systemd?

>>56139776
gentoo

>>56139776
Devuan?

>>56139776
gentoo or funtoo

Have you checked out any of the BEDs? Linux's codebase is fucking enormous. If you're looking for something without systemd, then check out either Free or Open BSD

>>56139776
Windows

GuixSD? I actually don't remember if it has it or not.

>>56139906
What's peoples impression on Devuan? Really interested in it.

Alpine Linux

>>56140017
debian without systemd

freebsd

>>56139958
No one is using BSDs for productivity. Even the developers are Applefags.

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>>56139987
it doesn't
uses the GNU Shepherd (previously named dmd)
this is the recommendation to end them all
in 5 years, all other distros will be completely irrelevant
there is so much potential and beauty in what these people are putting together

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>>56139776
What kind of luddite would want to use a modern Linux distro without systemd?

>>56139776
slackware

>>56140049
GNU shepherd also run as PID 1, yet nobody complaining.

>>56139776
Gentoo+clang+musl+libressl or Slackware

>>56140049
Does it also use GNU Hurd?

>>56140130

From the packages it looks like it runs a libre version of linux.

>>56140089
what is an init system?
people don't dislike systemd because of it"s pid

>>56140130
not yet, but i believe there are plans to offer it eventually

why the fuck you want to use a distro without systemd?
>muh unix philosophy
Oh, do you like readdir () too?

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>>56140257
>debian used to be good and everything just worked and i could go months without any problems or having to reboot
>introduce systemd
>everything is buggy and breaks and i've no idea why and have to reboot a couple times a month now
I don't know much about this technically, but, having changed nothing else, my problems coincide too perfectly for me not to be suspicious.

>>56140051
Because while it manages the initialization, it also has:
-assimilated udev(device manager)
-networking features like ip forwarding, basic firewall control, ip masquerading
-taken over logging(with a binary format, to hide shit for the nsa)
-fucking webserver functionality for viewing the log files and shit over the internet
-a dns cache service
-a uefi boot loader(gummiboot)

It just reaks like being big brothers shot at looking & controlling what you're doing on your computer.

>>56139776
> What's the most delicious vegan steak?

>>56140249
>people don't dislike systemd because of it"s pid
https://ewontfix.com/14/

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>>56140316
>>56140320
>>56140364
Choo choo, all aboard the FUD train!

>>56139776
systemd isn't a problem as a pid.

it's a problem because it encourages arrogant dumb shits to rewrite perfectly good well tested software just so it can be borg'd into systemd.

and the result it unstable reduced functionality shite that maintainers claim is working as designed.

>>56140033
so is gentoo's

>>56140316
>debian
Found your problem

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>>56140316
>use a meme distro
>be surprised that it's shit

>>56140033
not true, devs of OpenBSD must use it as their main system, its a requirement

Currently use Manjaro openrc, pretty good
I also use Void

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>>56139776
Start with an install of void or crux, then hijack-install bedrock over it so you can use the repos of systemd distros without systemd.

Or you could just install PCLinuxOS.

Systemd is Free (as in Free Speech and Free Beer) anon, you should embrace FOSS technologies.

>>56141827
its also Stupid (as in amazingly stupid and exceptionally stupid)

>>56141857
Works fine for me and Linus Torvalds, anon.

>>56139847
this

>>56139906
lol "veteran unix admin collective"

>>56141827
My shit is free too, want to have some?

Even though all my linux servers run systemd, I dislike it. First thing I always disable is network-manager, its utter shit and unreliable.

>>56139776
arch converted to openrc :3

>>56142854
I'm using it, works pretty good.

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>>56142867
So am I desu :3
Surprisingly much more fast and stable than Arch with SystemD, or any other Arch forks with OpenRC preinstalled, though it did take much longer to set up and get everything working correctly.

>>56140378
>FUD

http://suckless.org/sucks/systemd

>>56139847
/thread

>>56139776
Devuan, I use it.

>>56140017
User here, can confirm is comfy. Lots of packages and the maintainers really sweat to put this system up to date so you'll use newer software.

>>56141779
Someone knows his shit.

So the top choices would be Slackware, PCLinuxOS, Devuan?

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>>56145258
Gentoo. Seriously Gentoo is great and I'd easily put it above Slackware.

>>56145258
Slackware, Gentoo and Devuan are the most used, probably.

I would add more but is a clusterfuck. Choose what you like.

>>56145836
>gentoo
>up to date
>linux-4.4
No

>>56145836
It requires lots of work with all the compilation from sources during installation and whatnot. Recommending Gentoo didn't become a meme for no reason, it's a troll meme because it doesn't actually make much sense to recommend it - those who would actually install it more than likely know about it already, and those who don't most probably would prefer something more straightforward to install.

>>56145999
Gee, there's lots of systems still on kernel 2.6, upside-down-satan.

>>56140257
Lennart is a fucking retard who has no idea about what he is doing
http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd

>>56146017
You have no idea what the fuck you are saying, idiot

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html

>>56146000
This.

Recommending source based distros is a bad idea.

>>56146017
Yes, but the systemd shills/apologists routinely attempt to dismiss any objective criticism as "FUD" (such as here >>56140378).

>>56146038
Read link
He is full of shit, has no idea what pertains in the system, he makes claims and then breaks them the next version.

Read source faggot

Your link is just shills not facing the real facts

>>56146038
You have no idea what the fuck you are saying, idiot
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=120652&p=570371
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2608798/data-center/systemd--harbinger-of-the-linux-apocalypse.html

>>56146038
>click link
>site links to google+
>site links to pulse audio
Can you suck lennarts cock some more?

>>56146038
That link is FUD, systemd is a clusterfuck without a clear API. Also the guy is either an idiot or a shill, people complains about their logs being binary and dependent from systemd.

>>56140089
people don't like systemd and its not because of PID 1

it's the fact that it does SO MUCH shit as PID 1

>>56146090
>>site links to google+
>>site links to pulse audio
What's your point?

>>56146078
>Systemd: Harbinger of the Linux apocalypse
>Yet Debian adopts it
>>56146073
Your meta blog link is some hippie trash

>>56146118
>Clusterfuck without a clear API
"A systemd platform is actually much simpler than traditional Linuxes because it unifies system objects and their dependencies as systemd units. The configuration file language is very simple, and redundant configuration files we got rid of. We provide uniform tools for much of the configuration of the system. The system is much less conglomerate than traditional Linuxes are. We also have pretty comprehensive documentation (all linked from the homepage) about pretty much every detail of systemd, and this not only covers admin/user-facing interfaces, but also developer APIs.

systemd certainly comes with a learning curve. Everything does. However, we like to believe that it is actually simpler to understand systemd than a Shell-based boot for most people. Surprised we say that? Well, as it turns out, Shell is not a pretty language to learn, it's syntax is arcane and complex. systemd unit files are substantially easier to understand, they do not expose a programming language, but are simple and declarative by nature. That all said, if you are experienced in shell, then yes, adopting systemd will take a bit of learning.

To make learning easy we tried hard to provide the maximum compatibility to previous solutions. But not only that, on many distributions you'll find that some of the traditional tools will now even tell you -- while executing what you are asking for -- how you could do it with the newer tools instead, in a possibly nicer way."

Is there a prospect for systemd-free Linux distributions to survive in the long run and be able to sustain their own sub-ecosystem somewhat in between the systemd-adopting mainstream and the *BSDs? Or will it become too difficult to be sustainable long term (supposedly Wayland is going to be systemd-dependent soon, for instance) with maintainters of such distros rather being expected to throw in the towel and either become assimilated by the systemd borg, or else discontinue their distribution entirely?

>>56146159
>>Yet Debian adopts it
Fucking shill, learn to read
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=120652&p=570371

>>56146183
Mainstream distros having adopted it is 90% politics (Red Hat influence mainly) and 10% merit at best.

>>56146159
>you have to do things the way systemd tells you to, or you will have no support, and in some cases, we will make it harder for you to do anything.

>config files
my /etc/rc.d worked flawlessly, i dont need 30 different places to find basic config options.

>new tools
so replacing cat with a "better" version,that lennart thinks is the "best way"?

Why does systemd have services that should not be built in,such as cryptsetup,dns cache, http server
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/825#issuecomment-127917622

>>56146159
None of what you write proves how systemd is not a clusterfuck in his API. You seem to direct your explanation to system admins, not programmers.

kys

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>>56146175

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>>56146183
>It says Debian couldn't help adopting and keeping systemd

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>>56146270
And now I know you are a shill. Do they pay you for hour or each time you lie you receive "a ticket"?

>>56146292
>Lies
Fact: Debian uses systemd

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>>56146292

>>56146270
You are malicious if that is what you say about the link.

>>56146315
kek
How are you going to interpret the blog then?

>>56146292
>>56146306
Our government spent millions on online trolls and we have the receipts. No surprise corporations does that too.

So OP, how did systemd affect you so much that you are going full vegan?

>>56146401
Not OP but I share his concern about all this. Seems pretty shady. Some comments here have good points.

>>56146435
>good points.
like? How do they affect your user experience?

>>56146459
I have to run down configs that are not in /etc/ or /etc/<programname>.conf
I have to hope journald dosent shit its self and corrupts the journal files, so i can find out what is happening or what is happening with my system
systemd userd is a flaming pile of shit, that has been shit since it was introduced. Why do i have to have a userd system session? xinit is all that is needed.
having logind randomly shit its self for NO GOD DAMN REASON, forces you to have to boot a liveusb to find out the cluserfuck, oh wait journald corrupted, all your logs are gone now!!!!
>syslog
It is still a binary log

>>56146459
The constant fight to implement this, people just don't want it.

I don't know man, I like sysvinit and systemd is buggy and don't offer anything more than a fast boot.

Main Distros:
Gentoo: needs no introduction nor description.

Slackware: uses sysvinit. Has several ways of installing pakages, so its not as painfull as gentoo but just as flexible. However, it tries to keep itself from interfering with the user and it hasnt got the automation of gentoo (portage).

Devuan: debian without systemd, just and plainly that. It has sysvinit openrc, runit will be seen... It can be summarized in debian with whatever is not systemd

Arch/Manjaro with OpenRC: pretty self explanatory. Not as flexible as Slackware or Gentoo (unless you use ABS extensively) and it will take your time with PKGBuilds (most of them dont have Slacks or gentoos quality). But you get the advantages of AUR. And a preconfigured system with Manjaro (God thank artoo and Aaditya) in a very sensible way

Not so well known ones:

Void, just void: still not very mature but extremely stable already. Mixes Arch with Gentoo, with the simplicity and beauty of Slackware, but again, it isnt so developed jet. It uses Runit as init system, as simple as you get, so it will require you to configure it to your liking, but its very nice if you know shell.

Alpine Linux: based on OpenRC. Focuses in stability and security. I would only recommend it for servers. Lacks pakages and usage outside of the "server" spectrum.

Crux: small linux distro, based on ports, specialized in embedded systems.

*BSDs... Well what did you spect?

Haiku and Plan9 ;)

>>56146567
I like you.

>>56142901
what DE is that?

>>56146634
DEustchland?

>>56146525
>I have to run down configs that are not in /etc/ or /etc/<programname>.conf
>>>/etc/systemd
Also, your package maintainer probably has taken care of it anyway. So you don't have to bother
>logind shits itself
If that were the case all distros would have the same issue. Are you sure you didn't fuck up the configs? Never had any issues with it
Logind is much like a front end to other package, and many arguments are turned off by default
>Binary logs
You do know they can be set so that the logs aren't binary now, do you? How exactly is that going to effect your daily desktop use, anon?

>>56146557
Most people don't care about what they are using. However systemd being a standard made it easier to follow and setup many packages regardless of the distro (no init system conflict)

>>56145999
Gentoo is on 4.7, actually. And there's another package for the latest git sources, so you can be on 4.8.0-rc2 if you want.

>>56139847

I want to install gentoo just to learn what is going on with linux.

Ive failed hardware passthrough twice I need to get down to the details.

There a good document somewhere for it? Is it in the sticky?

>>56139776
Slackware-current + slpkg + s6

>>56140130
I want to see an actual GNU operating system some day, because I like weird operating systems like that.

>>56146747
Soon.

>>56146770
It would also be nice to have some kind of competitor to Linux and BSD. I want to see what a fully GNU operating system would do differently.

>>56146790
Are you me?

void linux

>>56146801
I don't know, I think anybody sane should welcome competition.

Competition leads to innovation.

>>56140103
Is musl ready for os use?

>>56146269
So you mean to say that there isn't such a prospect? That distro maintainters staying clear of systemd are expected to erode one by one, either giving in and adopting it, or closing shop altogether?

>>56146851
Use Alpine and see for yourself.

Alpine Linux

>>56139776
linux mint.

>>56146867
They aren't fading away, they are migrating to other distros.

Is just like in Devuan, they remain in low profile to avoid the systemd fanboyism.

>>56146159
>>Systemd: Harbinger of the Linux apocalypse
Yes.
http://blog.lusis.org/blog/2014/09/23/end-of-linux/

"Linux is becoming the thing that we adopted Linux to get away from."

>>56140049
Only thing that could ruin it is if they make it a freetard distro like gnusense or trisquel and ship it with no drivers for anything.

Hopefully they will at least be smart and allow the user to add a non-free repo but i doubt their autism will allow that.

>>56147030
You can use the Guix package manager without using the OS. If you absolutely want the operating system, you could always recompile the kernel, I suppose.

The second issue is very real though.

>>56146917
Ok, but doesn non-systemd Linux ultimately have a future in the long run? We probably arrived at a point where "being compatible with mainstream distros except for systemd itself" won't be a realistic option for much longer, because in what (sadly) has become the mainstream Linux world just too much seems to be going to depend on systemd. It may be time to draw the line and say "ok, good luck to y'all with systemd, but we're doing our own thing now and will develop our distros with our own solutions which won't ever have anything to do with systemd". Otherwise, the day may indeed come that there's no other sane choice but either following suit and adopting systemd or else just calling it quits.

Apparently Red hat with their corporate $$ started invading free software, first with gtk3 and then with systemd, to lock people into their ecosystem. Seems like some very shady shit is going on in red hat, I'm not trusting any of their software anymore. Hopefully there will be more distros without systemd.

>>56147195
you should really just avoid anything by freedesktop like the plague

*kit, gnome, pulseaudio, systemd, etc.

i'm not even a cat -v autist but that's genuinely harmful software

>>56146567
Nice run-down, although the main distros surely should include PCLinuxOS, as it's also quite popular.

>>56147212
Please tell me more, I just read a few articles on it, but I never really dived into the issue. What exactly should I avoid? Is qt ok? Because I'm looking to get chakra right now, seems like a nice distro.

>>56147291
I don't see anything wrong with Qt itself (besides the fact that it forces devs to use C++), but a lot of KDE shit now seems to depend on freedesktop stuff.

It's still not as bad as GNOME/gtk

>>56147030
there's no way they can stop you from adding a nonfree repo without themselves including some kind of drm
they will however never host a nonfree repo themselves
and if you're the kind to want such a thing, i might suggest suicide

>>56146567
Im this guy
>>56146614
Thanks
>>56146851
>>56140103
Void has active musl development and uses libressl

I think ill add my experience with systemd and why i dont like it.
I would recommend systemd if you are new to linux, sorry it is the truth. It handles things in a way a newbee would spect and want. Efi, hardware, networking, drivers, permissions, etc.
However, the moment something fails, its likely it is related to systemd. I started getting problems with the booting and networking utilities (NM). Something worked and in the next version it did not (see sytemd-free.org). I had problems with sensors and fans, all caused by systemd overriding (or should i say terrible desing) my options. Since lm_sensors had to be started before fancontrol i wrote such order in the config. But the parallel start of systemd and its voracity to boot as fast as possible started the sensors service and since it detected it "took to much" to start, it started fancontrol, and making it fail, yay. So i had to do a reboot and pray it would fail (i had to reboot over 3 times in some cases).

I know i can disable the parallel option (i think centos does this). But i switched from windows for this reason. I dont want to fight my system to make it work the way i want. Note the diference between fighting and working, in Slack, Gentoo... You build your system. With systemd you have to fight what it does, depend on it, or force yourself to do what it "wants" (Pottering).

I like that it improves linux in some areas, and it forces and standard (stardards, specially good ones~ is something linux lacks) and makes life quite easier for some people. What i dont like the most to be honest is the dependency it has created and how it forces itself. It doesnt allow the choice of init systems, this i why i fight it, not just dislike it.

Wrote by a hobbyist user, im just another opinion.

>>56147348
>i should kill myself for wanting my hardware to work

Freetard logic ladies and gentlemen.

>>56147348
>Theres no way they can stop you
>they will however never host a nonfree repo themselves

That's kinda the same thing, When i install a distro i don't want to have to maintain my own repo just to have drivers.

>>56139776
Gentoo > Void > Funtoo > Devuan

deepin its good :)

>>56147598
Nice try, chinaman

>>56147485
Well just use hardware which has freetard firmware/drivers.

Meanwhile, the systemd shills/apologists retaliate by opening another thread of their own: >>56147830

I want to install void linux and I need some decisions spoonfed to me, which DE/WM is a good choice that doesn't use gtk or systemd? And I would love if there are themes for it that kinda look like windows 10, it's the only good thing about it, those sharp corners everywhere, instead of shitty rounded edges and circles for buttons. I need to add this so it's not a duplicate reply

>>56146017
>Lennart is a fucking retard who has no idea about what he is doing
sadly, he has every idea what he is doing.

lennart - redhat - microsoft

the unholy trinity

>>56146970
Thanks for the opinion

>>56147195
>Seems like some very shady shit is going on in red hat, I'm not trusting any of their software anymore. Hopefully there will be more distros without systemd.

Ding ding ding ding - we have a winner.

This is the perfect way to introduce so much complexity and single point of failure (as in wide attack surface) compared to traditional Linux init systems. From the start, I'd bet the NSA just love having Linux turn into essentially an open source version of Windows.

>>56147547
Some distros allow sharing personal repositories. GuixSD is one of them, the other is Sourcemage. The two most promising contenders imho.

>>56148260
Shills more likely, at this stage all the signs have been given.

>>56146716
>Google:Gentoo install guide
>techmint
Faggots, faggots everywhere

>>56144625
But....gnome TT_TT. I enjoy the IU and not its devs and corporatzation. Tryin to switch but I need it minimal like gnome3

>>56139776
alpine

why you wouldn't want systemd is beyond me, though

>>56146000
Trips of Truth

Started/current on Debian and trying to transition to Devuan(missing gnome already)

>>56150494
Gnome is the only thing it doesn't have. Maintainers are fast in introducing new packages so I guess is only matter of time. I don't complain, I use a tiling wm.

Apart from that everything is up to date.

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>>56148998
/thread

"Poettering complained that the "Open Source community is full of assholes, and I probably more than most others am one of their most favourite targets." Poettering went on to put some blame on Linus Torvalds and other kernel developers for the state of the community"

Fucking chode

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>>56150567
Yes he said that. He believes better than every other programmer.

>>56150588
>implying he's wrong

>>56150522
Really nice to hear, thanks!
>only matter of time
I'm jones'n here anon!

>>56139776
Dangoros
Monteiro Linux
One of the openCrox flavours

>>56147212
>pulseaudio
Setting audio is not hard, just cat /proc/asound/modules and creating /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf, that's it.

Yes, I know some people want to Skype, but there is something called apulse specially for that, pulseaudio is not needed.

Pulseaudio is not a good thing for new users, and for advanced I think is reasonable to say we should have try to standardize configs, not pulseaudio.

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>>56139776
>>56139776
gen2, hands down. openrc is the shit.

>>56139906
this

What exactly is systemd for and why is there so much autistic banter over it

>>56152798
Systemd is an init system (aka what starts up and shut's down your computer) and service manager (well at least that's what it started as). The main criticism for systemd is that it takes and rewrites functionality seperate programs already had, and while systemd has multiple binaries they are tightly coupled, so you can't use say, logind without ALL of systemd. Systemd goes against the UNIX philosophy of "do one thing and do it well", systemd does many things some of them well and other's not so much.

Other criticisms include:
- Binary logging
- Can hang boot up process
- https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2010-September/000391.html

>>56154212
don't forget that it's trying really hard to break compatibility with other unices

>>56154212
>Binary logging
CAN BE FUCKING CHANGED ILLITERATE KUCK
> Can hang boot up process
ANY - I say ANY init can hang during boot. Systemd boots SIGNIFICANTLY FASTER AND LINUS ADDRESSES IT

>>56146634
XFCE with Arc-Dark

>>56139776
Install Gentoo.

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It's time to install systemd, /g/!

>>56146017
>arguments
>bunch of links of already disproved or solved shit

>>56146118
Funny you can reeplace systemd with Linux and would be more or less the same.

>>56146175
>wayland
>systemd dependent
You don't have any idea of what wayland does, no?

>>56144625
Do debian's packages work properly on it? Devuan's repo is really small

>>56152798
Because some bullshit idealization of Unix Philosophy. They fall in love on it not realizing that in his time was a compendium of limitations of computers of that era.

>>56156967
Here's you're (You)

>>56140033
Only FreeBSD devs and even then only some of them. OpenBSD devs eat their own mutt munch.

>>56157043
Problem anon?
Are you assblasted that someone doesn't agree with your meme?

>>56139776
New to /g/ why is systemd so bad??

>>56154404
Yeah and it breaks shit while booting so fast, because if a process doesn't start up fast enough in systemds opinion, it just calls it a day and starts up other processes that might require that process that still hasn't started, and the whole thing goes to shit.

>>56157382
http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/news/a-linux-conspiracy-theory

>>56157283
Not him but if you can't understand why a single entity shouldn't do many jobs, which it might not end up doing properly, it shouldn't fucking do them at all and let another one that does it better have it.
Give me one fucking reason why spreading such jobs on multiple programs is bad

>>56146567
Good rundown. I'd add that Slackware gains a lot of convenience and flexibility with NetBSD's pkgsrc package/ports system and pkgin to put the slack in slackware.

>>56146723
>slpkg and s6
Thanks for these.
>slackware-current
I've only ever used main branch. Is this worth it? Does it break often?

>>56146306
Holy shit. This was over a year ago now?

>>56154404
LOGGING IS FUCKING TIED TO SYSTEMD ILLITERATE FUCK

I used caps lock, am I cool now?

>>56139776
Gentoo? Not even kidding.

>>56139906
>>56140017
Checked the repo & mailing list.
It's literally dead.

Not even kidding, check the mailing list, there is zero traffic on it. People ask, get no replies. I am amazed that they even have a Beta version out.

>>56158574
What is wrong with you? The distribution maintainers are busy porting the last packages and the repo is growing, I checked myself.

Don't go spreading FUD, please.

>>56157858
Not him but logging can be changed to text now.

How tedious is it to set up and maintain slackware

>>56139776
>Best distro without systemd?
Windows

>>56140103

Too bad you cannot compile the kernel with clang. Still only possible with NSA/GCC.

>>56158962

Hardly the best, bro

>>56141868
you know linus hates it too?
obviously it works, thats not the point here

https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/tso-and-linus-and-the-impotent-rage-against-systemd/

>>56158735
so they remove a feature to add it later again?

>>56159080
Am I supposed to take your post seriously?

Do any distros have systemd but offer other init systems in their repos so you have the choice to replace it?

>>56146567
Im this anon, i'm fixing and expanding the text if someone ones to use it or do a pasta, ill copy it a couple more times in other agaist systemd threads. >>56147217 >>56157737 Thank you guys

Gentoo/Funtoo: needs no introduction nor description. Calculate: based on gentoo but focuses in ease of use and configuration. Pentoo: pentesting gentoo.

Slackware/And its many derivates: uses sysvinit. Has several ways of installing pakages (hell even NBSD pkgsrc) so its not as painfull as gentoo but just as flexible. However, it tries to keep itself from interfering with the user and it hasnt got the automation of gentoo (portage).

Devuan: debian without systemd, just and plainly that. It has sysvinit, openrc; runit will be seen... It can be summarized in debian with whatever is not systemd.

Arch/Manjaro with OpenRC: pretty self explanatory. Not as flexible as Slackware or Gentoo (unless you use ABS extensively) and it will take your time with PKGBuilds (most of them dont have Slacks or gentoos quality). But you get the advantages of AUR. And a preconfigured system with Manjaro (God thank artoo and Aaditya) in a very sensible way.

PCLinux: desktop OS, unique and usable. Uses APT and Synaptic for its management with .rpms. Not as know or advance as the others but one of the nicest.
(1/2)

>>56150792
If you're an advanced user you should use JACK. PulseAudio has no reason to exist.

>>56159461
(2/2)
LFS: yeah... So... Well, i had to put it here.

Not so well known ones, but "creme de la creme":

Void, just void: still not very mature but extremely stable already. Mixes Arch with Gentoo, with the simplicity and beauty of Slackware, but again, it isnt so developed jet. It uses Runit as init system, as simple as you get, so it will require you to configure it to your liking, but its very nice if you know what you are doing. Very recommendable (uses libressl by default, no dbus, musl variant...). God thank Extraeme

Alpine Linux: based on OpenRC. Focuses in stability and security. I would only recommend it for servers. Lacks pakages and usage outside of the "server" spectrum, or if you are an advance user.

Crux: small linux distro, based on ports, specialized in embedded systems. Very standard in the way it does things, nice community and very minimalistic.

Antix: Based on Debian stable. Targets old computers with limited resources. Comes in three different installers to give user more freedom on what should be installed.

SourceMage: similar to Gentoo. Source based, but with a local approach (much like FBSD). Tries to focus in open source software. Its main aim is to give users back their choices and be close to LFS. Has a light sense of humor.

Stali: suckless distro. Staticly linked. Uses musl. As minimal as you can get.

*BSDs... Well, what did you spect?

Haiku, GuixSD, MINIX, Illumos systems, Aros, FreeDOS, MenuetOS, ReactOS and Plan9 ;)

>>56158735
how? are old logs converted to text too?

>>56157753
Happens rarely because it doesn't move as fast as other rolling distros. Folks on freenode ##slackware are always willing to give a hand.

Excuse my ignorance, but can someone explain to me what are the benefits of a distro without systemd?

>>56139776
Windows Subsystem for Linux

>>56159668
Leave my thread forever, Lennart.

>>56159694
>no systemd support
it's funny because it's true.

>>56159668
no botnet in your distro

install gentoo

>>56139776
normally i would say debian but devuan is still not mature enough, so i choose gentoo. its the only distro that truly works as designed without systemd

>>56160725
Slackware works well too

>>56140049
>there is so much potential and beauty in what these people are putting together
Nobody has said that about any piece of GNU software ever

>>56140425
The biggest problem I have with systemd is actually dbus, personally

>>56159481
I giggled a little at Stali because it's completely unusable in most cases, but thanks for Source Mage. I'm probably gonna go try this now.

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>>56139847
>when newfags will think this is a meme

Mac OS X

>>56159007
>you know linus hates it too?
Why even lie about this?

"I don't personally mind systemd, and in fact my main desktop and laptop both run it."
- Linus Torvalds, ITWire Interview.

>>56159474
My nigga.

>>56139974
>>56158962
>>56159694
practically svchost.exe is what systemd is inspired from, one of the biggest attack surfaces on windows

black hats will understand

>>56162415
wat

Void Linux. I run it on nearly all my computers. The only issue is the repos can lack plenty of programs other distros have, but otherwise I'd easily recommend it to anyone with some Linux knowledge.

>>56157658
Because multiple programs doing atomic things to acomplish a task joined together by pipes only do the 80% of the work and they don't scale properly.
And that's isn't all the bullshit of unix philosophy. There are other points who show that thinking isn't about good design, but simply avoid being multics.

>>56162415
Everyone who brings that meme comparison knows shit about what svchost or systemd does.
Doesn't change the fact that svchost.exe is awful as fuck anyways. I wonder why microsoft doesn't have killed it.

>>56159461
>>56159481
Keep up with the good work

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>>56139776
Debian
just remove SystemD and install SysVinit, literally just werks and havent needed to switch or reinstall my OS in a whole year of using it

>>56162902
>>56162902
foolishly did as you say.
the damn thing started unconditionally fsck'ing every time i boot up. Says superblock update time is in the future. WTF?

>>56139776
Slackware.

>>56163101
Are you dual booting with Wintendo by any chance?

>>56163186
No, just vanilla Debian 8. It's the single os on the machine. What's funny it stopped doing that after I reinstalled systemd.

>>56162415
This is one of the most retarded things I have ever read. You have no idea about systemd or Windows.

Do you frequent the Gentoo forums by any chance? Sounds like the sort of insane shit they would dream up.

>>56162415
That's so far removed from reality I don't even know where to begin.
init 0 your life

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>>56163101
I used this guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7mRNCsLcR4
do it directly from a netinstall with NOTHING extra but the OS installed then run tasksel and install the extra stuff after it is all done, works everytime, SystemD would stop my system from booting all the time, SysVinit never ever gave me problems anon

>>56141868
Appeal to autistic authority

>>56143214
>suckless.org
Their only argument is that systemd isn't written following their sacrosanct guidelines.
They don't have problems defending shit like ICCCM.

>>56162415
>svchost
>inspiring systemd
Actually systemd was inspired by launchd. Does retarded stuff (xml like configuration files) but is more discrete than systemd.

>>56163460
You systemd shills/apologists NEVER even attempt to engage in any meaningful discussion, never address any of the valid and relevant issues raised, but only use pseudoarguments like "all major distros adopted it, live with it" or "Linus Torvalds is OK with systemd", and otherwise just ridiculing, belittling or insulting ("luddite", "autist", "irrelevant fringe hipster/greybeard/whatever", etc.).


(Btw Linus probably only is "ok" with it because he's focused on the kernel and can't be arsed to engage in flame wars over what is outside his main focus... his attitude towards it would likely change dramatically if Poettering tries to creep with systemd too closely towards how the kernel itself works, which probably is a matter of time anyway).

Ive only ever used systemd with debian, how is init different?

>>56164087
Why should I remove systemd from my distro.

Give me down-to-earth practical reasons.

Like "my init can do x by systemd can't"
Or "Systemd is a proven botnet"
Or "My init boots my OS faster and here's the proof"

Go on

>>56164244
The only actual systemd problem I personally stumbled upon is problems with my custom initrd that mounts my encrypted hard drives, that don't use LUKS but a custom scheme based on dm-crypt.
systemd would complain it can't find devices.
This was not a problem with regular sysvinit.

>>56164287
Seems like you need to do more research before making your own custom scripts. Can you give me actual reasons why I should delete systemd?

>>56164321
>Seems like you need to do more research before making your own custom scripts.
My custom initrd has worked and continues to work perfectly with sysvinit.

>>56164334
May be you should learn how to work with systemd? How is that my problem?

>>56164334
See, that's their retarded (but standard) argumentation they give. If systemd doesn't work well with something (in this case, your scripts), then that something is a problem and should adjust to systemd and not the other way around. In other words, systemd is always doing everything right and everything else should adjust and adapt to it. Lol.

>>56164087
Because the only arguments that luddites like you spots are the same tired ones who where discredit long ago
>muh unix philosophy
>muh bugs who are solved
>muh nsa
>muh shell scripts

>>56164426
If I want to run #pacman -Syu in fedora, it's me who's being retarded.
Systemd is not sysvinit

>>56164087
Linus has already rejected Lennart's kdbus.

>>56164479
>Systemd is okay I see no problem with it
>I remember when people were laughing when Lennart introduced UUIDs but seems now everyone uses it

Daily reminder that systemd detractors are noisy, but are minority.
Proof: alternatives to systemd haven't gained traction and don't solve the problems that systemd solves. And their development is slow as fuck.

>>56164588
>their development is slow as fuck.
Because no one uses it.

People want to use their computer, not fuck with init system 24/7

>>56164334
Then search and adapt your script to systemd
>muh lack of documentation
Read the code and document it.

>>56164536
What does that have to do with kdbus?
Linus also canned Lennart's consoled idea.

>>56164633
Why? I'll just continue to use sysvinit. It's working perfectly.

>>56164672
I'm saying Linus sees no problem with systemd

Daily reminder: if systemd process at pid 1 crash, it can restart by itself avoiding completely the kernel panic.
If sysvinit or other alternatives to it crash, they always will trigger a kernel panic.
And they say that systemd is a single point of failure. All init process are. Systemd at least is aware of that.
>>56164682
Then don't complaint about systemd.

>>56164683
He was proposed two kernel "improvements" by Lennart and they were both rejected. Not a good track record, to be honest.
He doesn't have time to look into userland stuff, SystemD included, in detail.

>>56164768
Again a wasted opportunity to give linux a more-or-less decent IPC.

>>56164850
>dbus
>decent
Pick one

>>56164939
What's your problem with D-Bus?
Have you actually used it in your programs?
I have and it's simple and convenient.

>>56164939
I pick both
>>56164980
Perhaps he thinks that pipes are the only correct way to have IPC.
:^)

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>>56164087

>>56165000
>Perhaps he thinks that pipes are the only correct way to have IPC.
>:^)
I don't think most systemd and/or d-bus critics actually write software

>>56146306
It's latest incarnation is CTR and Germanistan and Londonistans thought police organizations.

>>56146306
>everyone who doesn't agree with me must be a shill

>>56159474
>using JACK for consumer audio
Do you mown your lawn with napalm and nukes too?
Actually, JACK developers discourage the use of JACK as a Pulseaudio reeplacement.
>pulseaudio has no reason to exist
Actually it does. It solves problems.

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>>56159694
>Windows Subsystem for Linux

>>56159668
Nothing.

>>56159668
If you're asking this, then a distro with systemd will not benefit you.

>>56170787
>implying it wasnt bait

>>56157753
It breaks when you try to move to it.

I have used Slackware for several years, but I've only ever used the latest stable. Every time I try to move a Slackware install to current, everything fucking breaks on next reboot.

>>56170469
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5PzzxOj4Vw

>>56174960
just slackware things