Tabs vs Spaces

Tabs

checking those dubs

I always use 3 spaces instead of tabs. looks more compact and doesn't cause a fuckton of wrapping

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Spaces via tab expansion.

That is, when I press tab, my editor translates that into the appropriate amount of spaces (almost always 2, but sometimes 4, depending on the project).

I have only ever met one person who used spaces that preferred to mash their spacebar N times by hand. And that was only because he didn't know that tab expansion existed. Once I told him, he switch to it.

>>55959344
Spaces because consistency

>>55959344
4 spaces

>>55959344
Spaces.

Make your editor change tab input to spaces.

You fucking idiot - how is this a question?

>>55959374
This is the best method. The only time that I don't is when I'm working with a piece of software that REQUIRES things to be written with tabs (I'm looking at you portage).

tabs and spaces

i like to live dangerously, tab usually whatever the ide indents with, and then occasionally you have to use a space to line things up

There was a guy here a long time ago that wanted the Tab key to die. Good times.

this is such a stupid fucking argument

pick one and stay consistent

>>55959344
I do whatever the surrounding code base does.
For new projects, I follow what the standard library does.
You know, when in Rome do as the Romans do.

Anything else is retarded..

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>>55959365
>>55959374
>>55959380
>>55959389
>>55959422
>>55959430
Wow.

Tab, no question.

Everyone clearly has there own idea how many spaces to indent. If you indent with tab, you don't force your indentation size on anyone.

Smart tabs is obviously the best method.
It might be too hard for people with less than 80 iq though.

tabs, width=2

tabs expanded to 4 space for python

Why the fuck would anyone use spaces?

I copy paste so much shit that it's faster to backspace them to their places if they are done with tabs.

Other than that I don't care as long as I don't need to mash spacebar

Tabs, always. I get booty-bothered by the use of spaces in the year 20XX when every editor has adjustable tab widths. There's no excuse for spaces.

whatever the standard for the language or project is

i don't careeeeeeeeeee people who get bent out of shape about it are dumb

Spaces via tab expansion because muh haskell and f#.

A tab or 4 spaces.
Both are equal width.

Fuck all the special snowflakes making up their own standards.

Tabs to indent, spaces to align

There's very few good reasons to use spaces. The main argument spacefags can come up with is "b-but it looks the same everywhere" - but how's that a good thing? With tabs people who prefer different indentation widths can apply their own, with spaces everybody is forced to look at what one egoist liked.

>>55960938
Until you need to align multi-line statements with spaces beyond a tab, and all shit breaks loose. In all but the strictest environments, using tabs leads to mixing of tabs and spaces, which means you don't get to "apply your own" anyway, and might as well be using spaces in the first place!

>>55960905
Last time I checked, tab by default, is 8 spaces. So no, they are not of equal width.
>>55960973
True, plus different editors treat tabs differently. So why not just spaces instead and save yourself the trouble.

>>55960973
>need to align multi-line statements
>need
Why though? The answer to the question "should I spend my time lining these things up for diminishing readability improvements and increased maintenance costs" is almost always a negative.

That said, if you still insist on lining shit up, tabs can still work. You don't really need the "strictest" environment honestly, just everybody respecting the formatting. Though I admit there's often those turbo normies who just don't give a shit and soil it for everybody else.

>>55961018
>plus different editors treat tabs differently
Again, how's that a negative? Instead of telling the team to use spaces, you can tell them to use 4-width tabs, which is just as easy but gives you a lot more leeway later on.

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>>55959365
>he uses text wrapping

i use my IDEs default settings

>>55959344
Tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment. Before committing I usually always use clang-format or yapf to format according to guidelines.

2 spaces for all indent intent. Spent some time doing Clojure and after I resumed 4 space Java I just couldn't figure out why the extra 2 spaces.

>>55961129
this guy's what I was talking about >>55961027

>>55961129
>i use my IDEs default settings
>IDE
So do you work in Java or C#?

Smart tabs dammit!

Indent with tabs
Align with spaces

don't spaces consume more memory than tabs do?

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>tabs
force you to mix in spaces when you intend

>spaces
clear winner if your editor supports basic stuff, like translate tab to spaces
no one actually presses 4 spaces to make tab, editor just writes spaces

>>55961229
Storage space, not memory

>>55961239
>intend
indent

>>55961239
No argument apart from the erroneous assumption that having both spaces and tabs appear in a file is inherently bad.

>>55961204
java

4 spaces, almost guaranteed to look the same in any IDE/text editor.

I dunno why anyone would want to use a control character in their code, are they masochists that enjoy people seeing their code in ways they didn't intend, just by using a different text editor?

Most IDEs already default to 4 spaces, makes it faster to get started seeing as using tabs just gives you another few minutes of setting shit up (some people enjoy that though I guess)

If you want people to contribute to your code you're going to run into issues by using tabs too, because of the aforementioned default to spaces.

Only real reason I can think of for using tabs is if you're living in 1985 and storage space is a premium, otherwise just make it easier on yourself.

>>55959344
Tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment

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>>55961243
what do you put in storage space if not memory

>>55961243
>storage space
>>55961243
>Storage space

What is scaling?

Tab characters are for tabulation, not indentation.

Relative indentation is impossible with tab characters.

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>>55961261
Alright then, you do you, Javabro.

However, just a passing note, some of us work in teams (or on projects), where we don't need an IDE to make our language tolerable, and where we are given the freedom to use whatever tools we desire. In that world, spaces lead to more consistent code.

But I don't fault you for working in Java! Seriously! Nor do I fault you for using an IDE, or for conforming to what works best in that environment. I had a BigCo McEnterprise Java EE job for several years. I just want to make you aware that not every project environment has the same parameters.

>>55961275
Huh? What's your point?

>>55961273
You certainly don't put memory in storage space. Memory implies volatile memory, storage implies persistent data storage. Tabs vs spaces don't matter considering memory for compiled languages or minified code.

Spaces but my editor is set up to treat them as if they were tabs.

>>55959344
Space indentation doesn't respect the user's freedom.

>>55959776
>you don't force your indentation size on anyone

There's one case where this isn't true: when you try to line anything up.

var hello   = "hello";
var goodbye = "goodbye";

The above will look fucked up unless your tabs are 4 spaces, in which case spaces are the only way to ensure it looks right.

So it's worth using spaces over tabs if you do that kind of thing. I prefer it myself since it can make certain sections of code much easier to glance through.

>>55961382
this is autism

>>55961382
Tabs for indentation, spaces for align. Ever heard? It's been mentioned several times ITT already, and solves practically all common aligning problems.

>>55959374
>2

FUCK OFF

>>55961450
lol y u mad tho?

>>55959344
Tabs
Double quotes
if(condition){
}

Anything else is just disgusting

>>55961310
What's wrong with working in IDEs, even outside java or C#? Are you some sort of masochist who enjoys finding out that at line 1097 you missed a semicolon when your compilation failed after an hour?

>>55959344
>opening bracket on same line with other statements
>closing bracket on same line with other statements

I'm gonna puke.

Spaces

>>55961835
Just what?

>>55961844
What I'm saying is, fuck your spaces. If you put opening/closing brackets on the same line with other statements, you are a fucking degenerate.

I get that tabs vs spaces holy way is a bit of a meme.

But does anyone else wish they cared about it less than they do?

Like I would straight up get in a knife fight if one of my coworkers started using spaces because he insists it is better and this is the only way I will learn.

But like I should care less, no one should die over whitespace.

>>55961877
Nobody ever puts statements on the same line with opening braces if that's what you're talking about. Sensible people do, however, put function declarations and loop headers on the same line since that way they line up to the closing brace.

>>55961908
Still retarded. kys

>>55961927
Top argumentation there bud

>>55961908
What.
How does this line up?

if(statement){
//stuff
}

>>55961969
THANK YOU.
You are now my brother from another mother.

>>55961998
>moved to kotlin for android development
>android studio does not support opening colons on new lines
Why even live.

>using tabs or spaces

#include <iostream>
using namespace std;
int main () {
for(int i = 1; i <= 100; i++) {
if(i % 3 == 0 && i % 5 == 0)
cout << "FizzBuzz" << endl;
else if(i % 3 == 0)
cout << "Fizz" << endl;
else if(i % 5 == 0)
cout << "Buzz" << endl;
else cout << i << endl;
}
return 0;
}

>>55961969
The start of the block, the letter i, lines up with the end of the block, the closing brace. What's complicated about this?

Think of the if as a tag to the block. It's an integral part of the block, why should it be on its own line as it if was a separate statement?

Without the if you'd have

{
  // stuff
}

Why should introducing the if "tag" to the block make it take an extra line? The block is still one composite statement just as it was without the if.

>>55962021
It doesn't? Just abandon it immediately.

>>55962054
I can't.
Kotlin introduces a lot of great improvements to java like strictly nullable parameters and safe calls.
It also introduces redundant changes like getting rid of the following

int a = (1 > 2) ? 1 : 2;

The lack of semicolons is infuriating, but lambda expressions and inheritance is much cleaner.
It could've been perfect, man.
>>55962045
How is that a problem? You can clearly see where the block starts and where it ends. It even aligns with the line that IDE shows.

>>55962089
>How is that a problem?
How's what a problem?

>>55962045
It's easier to the human eye when it's

if(fag)
{
  //anal
}

It makes sense. What you're suggesting is basically "oh, well that would take one extra line, of course I won't put it there because muhfilesize." Unless you're a machine reading code, it doesn't make any sense to write it in one line.

>>55961401
> mixing spaces and tabs
Everything in this thread is opinion, except this, which is objectively wrong.

>>55961047
>You can make your editor insert n spaces when you press tab
Some editors display tab as 4 spaces, some as 8. Spaces are just more consistent, it will fucking look the same whatever shit your using.

>>55962089
> It could've been perfect, man.
You can use Scala or Haskell for an attempt at achieving that.

Kotlin is the simple proven stuff, for the most part.

>>55962109
What >>55962111 said. You're saying that putting keyword statements in their own respective lines is a problem.

>>55962111
But it's not even easier for the human eye. When I see a line with "if (whatever ..." I'm immediately treating it as the start of an if statement. Then I read further and see the brace there starting it. Thus I know that the next lines until the ending brace are the inner statements. Dead simple. If the starting brace is not there conveniently at the end of the line I started reading, I get confused for a millisecond before I notice it's on the line below for some reason. Completely unnecessary and inconvenient. You have 2 lines with the same indentation to start the block, instead of just 1. It's illogical.

insert tabs as spaces and everyone is happy

>>55962124
>Some editors display tab as 4 spaces, some as 8
And?

>>55962119
It works just fine if you don't have retards on the team or if you don't align things as if it improved readability.

>>55962142
>but it's not even easier for the human eye
What happens when nesting is involved though?

>>55962172
One line to start a block, one to end it. Everything between these lines is indented one lever per nesting level. Why should there be problems?

>>55962133
But the simple proven stuff is what makes it good and those little things matter in android because functions can still be called with null parameters in java when you don't

@NotNullable

annotation, yet it still tries to reinvent the bike by changing how keyword operations are defined.

>>55962188
Let's just agree to disagree. Just don't let me see your shitty bracketing anywhere.

>>55959380
How are spaces consistent?

>>55962234
Ok, you too

>>55962045
>Without the if you'd have

{
  // stuff
}

This is completely valid for defining a new scope (i.e. helpful for managing temp variables).

void function()
{
    var number = 10;
    
    {
        var value = // some complicated, long statement.
        var value2 = // another complicated, long statement.
        doThing(value, value2, number);
    }
    
    {
        var value = // yet another complicated, long statement.
        var value2 = // one more complicated, long statement.
        doThing2(value, value2, number);
    }
}

Why would adding an if-statement remove a line?

>>55962268
>This is completely valid for defining a new scope (i.e. helpful for managing temp variables).
Did I say it's wrong? I was arguing there should be no difference in the indentations or lines even if you tag the block with "if" or whatever.

>Why would adding an if-statement remove a line?
Why would adding an if to the same block give you a new line as if you had made a new statement?

>>55962291
I guess I'm arguing that since having the braces on their own line is normal for defining a new scope, it should continue being normal even if that scope is for a preceding if statement.

>>55962190
> @NotNullable
Yea, it is stupid that that is just an annotation in Java.

> yet it still tries to reinvent the bike by changing how keyword operations are defined.
I don't feel that is bad, a least it made things better in Scala?

I guess I haven't used Kotlin enough to think much about whether the keywords are chosen well or not.

>>55962378
That's a way to look at it, but the way I see it you primarily want to put only whole statements on their own lines. The exception being blocks, where you put both the starting part and the ending part on their own lines. The start of an if-block is not a statement in itself - it's the start of an if-block, and should go on its own line to start the block before being followed by the block's contents.

Always tabs unless code is short then just one line it

>>55962089
>It also introduces redundant changes like getting rid of the following

Haven't use Kotlin, but does it treat normal if-statements as expressions? Would the following work?

int a = if (1 > 2) 1 else 2

If you have a nested function, for example, do you press spacebar 20+ times to get the inner-most part of the function indented? That doesn't make any fucking sense.

>>55962493
Not him but yes. Pretty cool stuff.

https://kotlinlang.org/docs/reference/control-flow.html

>>55962581
Most programming-oriented text editors will auto indent when creating a new line and also automatically convert tabs to spaces.

Spaces for python.

Tabs for every well adjusted language that doesn't care about indentation.

>>55962268
That looks like complete garbage.

>>55961401
>Tabs for indentation, spaces for align
that still doesn't work if you are doing this kind of thing to avoid exceeding a line limit.

function_call(asdf, ggjhj,
                   hjkk, hjkl);

>>55963349
How did the spacing there get fucked up? It was aligned on the editor window.

>>55962268
If you're doing that you might as well just make that segment into a new function. The only case where I've ever used compound statements like that is in a switch statement.

>>55963349
>It was aligned on the editor window.
Exactly, your input field isn't using monospace fonts

Aligning like that is pointless but here goes

// ---- for tab, . for space
void foo() {
----function_call(asdf, ggjhj,
----..............hjkk, hjkl);
}

// better
void foo() {
----function_call(asdf, ggjhj,
--------hjkk, hjkl);

// even better, assuming the parameters are long
void foo() {
----function_call(
--------asdf,
--------ggjhj,
--------hjkk,
--------hjkl
----);

>>55963425
I find it a bit easier to read when aligned like that. Kate also does it by default, so I just kind of stuck with that style.

>>55959344
these days, I just use actual tabs for indentation, and a tab size of 4 in my editor
if you want spaces, you can convert them in seconds

if you're aligning something on the line below, insert tabs up to to where the previous line was, use spaces to align (this is a zero effort task in any editor that does auto-indent)

>>55963553
It's just such a pain in the ass to manage later, say, when you change the function name and have to re-align everything. It's one of the most frustrating things I know.

>>55963579
>when you change the function name
Is that a thing you do often? The only situation where that was tedious to me was when I migrated a project from C to C++. With Kate, I just have to delete the newline then add it again and it does it for me.

I've never found it to be much of a time sink anyway.

>>55963627
>Is that a thing you do often?
Well yes I have to re-align things often enough for it to be a major annoyance. You do get used to "plain" indentation without special formatting quickly, so I just go with that. It also reflects syntax trees better which is nice.

>>55963662
>It also reflects syntax trees better
How does that reflect the AST better? parameters are just a left recursive list.

>You do get used to "plain" indentation without special formatting quickly
I started off doing indentation the plain way, and I've only moved to this since I started using kate/kdevelop; this just works better for me. I think I'm somewhat dyslexic though.

>>55962142

This.

I prefer this:

if(something = 1) {
  //a comment instead of a stupid '{'
  do this;
}

It's concise and easily readable.

>>55963715
>How does that reflect the AST better? parameters are just a left recursive list.
Well at least if you type

void foo(
    p1, p2, p3)
// or
void foo(
    p1, 
    p2,
    p3)

Then the extra indentation shows that the list is a sub-expression of the function definition

>I started off doing indentation the plain way, and I've only moved to this since I started using kate/kdevelop; this just works better for me. I think I'm somewhat dyslexic though.
I'm using vim and I don't think it has such a nice feature so bummer for me.

I just use the standard. 4 tabs for functions, 3 tabs for variables, and 6 spaces for loops.

>>55963805
very nice

>>55963805
Please provide an example of this clusterfuck.

>>55963760
>I'm using vim and I don't think it has such a nice feature so bummer for me.
I'm pretty sure VIM can have literally any feature if you try hard enough.

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>>55963805
>the standard

Tabs.

I have started adding a

.editorconfig

in my projects where I specify that tabs should be four spaces wide. I realised github used this file so now the indentations are no longer 8 spaces wide when viewed online in my repos.

Tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment. Anyone can use the width they feel like yet the project stays consistent.

>>55963349
>>55965106
no

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>>55961382
See
>>55961401

Spaces are absolutely used to align.

>>55963349
Formatting here treats 4 spaces as a tab.

>>55962242
>i have only used one editor

soft tabs, 2 spaces in width

>not pressing enter 2 times to skip a line

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsoOG6ZeyUI

>>55963805
I prefer fibonacci spacing

>>55966691
>8 spaces

>>55959344
Two spaces, eighty columns.

>>55959380
i propose a new system

1 dab = 2 spaces
1 tab = 2 dabs = 4 spaces

replace caps lock with dab key and move caps lock somewhere else

>>55959344
4 spaces that are inserted by pressing the tab button.

Tabs
>press backspace Ponce to remove indentation

Spaces
>press backspace 4 FUCKING TIMES to remove indentation

Yeah, spaces are obviously the superior choice for /g/ - Masochism.

I use

if ( obj.get() )
{
    // Do something.
}

is it bad?

>>55959344
neiher, I put everything on column 1

>>55959344
tab for tabulation
space for space
anything else is retarded. Anyone using anything else is retarded too.
tabs were invented for that, only autists who want to feel special of spaces instead of tab

>>55967302
not really.
Consistency is more important.

>>55959344
who uses 5 spaces as tab?
The standard is 2, 4 or 8.
And why would you show spaces, but not tabs?
If you only show one, show tabs.

>>55963378
It is also very useful with macros.
There you don't want calling the same macro twice to cause problems.

i used to do 3 spaces
eventually I switched to tabs

Someone convinced me spaces were the way to go a while back but I've since thought about it myself and it sorta seems like bullshit. How are tabs not better? They're uniform and you can have them display however you'd like in your text editor. If only github had an option to set a default tab size for others viewing your repos.

>>55959344
I don't code but if I did I would image using tabs.

Python style guide says spaces, so spaces it is.

>>55961401
It's too easy for idiots to screw that up and use tabs for alignment. If you're setting a standard for a project, using all spaces is much easier.

>>55966440
If your editor somehow does ANYTHING with a tab other than move the following text to the next block, considering each block with each block being exactly four characters wide, it is shit and should be discarded.

>>55959344
Tabs are objectively better

Changing spaces to tabs on large source-code projects reduces file size SIGNIFICANTLY

I'm talking from 2 GB to 600-700 MB

There is really no benefit of spaces over tabs, only vice-versa

It should be tabs, but because of that 1% of the time when you need to manually align arguments to some long, hideous API call or because variable names are too long, it has to be spaces.

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2 tabs

>>55969579
Woah. You can't just make up a "2 tabs" character. Stop lying you lying nigger jew.

ctrl a ctrl k ctrl f

>>55967883
That's only because python has a high chance of breaking without it.

Don't get me wrong, I like python, but some aspects of it are really fucking stupid.

>>55962111
That's like having a period in the middle of a sentence.

>>55959344
Both.

Tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment and formatting.

>>55967611
no, with macros, you should use

do {

} while (0)

so that it acts like a function call. If you just use a compound statement, if-else will look funny.

>>55969943
Tabs are supposed to align automatically tho

Always spaces. Any IDE that doesn't automatically convert tabs to spaces by default is shit.

>>55970765
>Any IDE that doesn't automatically take your standard keyboard input and converts it to its special snowflake convention without telling you instead of just inserting it in your code as is is shit

Well, fuck you.

The tab key is supposed to insert tabs. If you don't want it to insert tabs, you should have to change the setting.

>>55959344
spaces, tabs are for retards
always convert tabs to spaces
also not setting your spaces to your tab length...

>>55959344
spaces. I find it's more consistent.

Plus a tab is just a group of spaces. Why the fuck is it's own entity?

>>55972902
>Plus a tab is just a group of spaces. Why the fuck is it's own entity?
There's no real way to differentiate tabs from spaces if they aren't at the start of the line, so there would be ambiguity issues if you tried to change your tab stops without tabs.

>>55962111
writing

if(fag) anal()

means it only takes one line, rather than 4. The blocks are only called for if you're doing multiple things inside the if statement.

>>55959363
Fuck your couch