Things you hate about Python, I'll start. >It exists

>>55959137
The fucking syntax. It's so disgusting and wrong.

I'll hack your mother with my python

>building a proto for xorg requires python
>bloat on my computer!!!1

>>55959137
>it's so easy to learn I got a job with it in 5 months
>average salary for it in London is currently £100k being one of the highest for langs here
Seriously, it's too good to exist, that's what I hate about it

>>55959137
Noobs can use it.

>__init__.py / __pycache__ /.pyc

>>55959206
I'm american. Should i move to London and do this?

>>55959301
Average is based off someone with 2 or more years mate.

That being said, you'd probably get a similar salary in Cali. Rent is also high here in London

>no switch
even if they just build one for synaptic sugar, I would be happy

No tail call optimization. Are you fucking kidding?

Libraries lack functionality for primary types.

For example urllib.request doesn't support byte strings as urls, so when you want to request urls with foreign characters you have to use shit like urllib.parse.quote...

>>55959155
Python's syntax is beautiful anon.

>>55959431
Use python 3 faggot.

Hate how they do for loops. Haven't had much experience with it, or programming in general but much prefer how Java does it.

>>55959445
I am and it doesn't work faget

Try requesting this url 'https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_de_sondages_sur_l%27élection_présidentielle_française_de_2017'

>>55959449
>Haven't had much experience with it, or programming in general
lmao

>classes
>no switch, have to use a dictionary for trivial bullshit

It has to be coerced into using utf-8 all the way instead of it being the default. What the fuck python.

>>55959488
use python3 you fucking faggot

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>>55959137
>EncodeDecodeError
>_________init_________(self):
>forced indentation
>self.sucking
>poorly threading support

>>55959438
desu its the best part of the language. only BASIC can even come close to the beauty

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>>55959499
>filename
nice

>>55959438
this. all of the fags ITT never learned how to properly write python and most likely are just poos in the loos writing basic syntax. There's a code by which you write to make your programs pythonic. When you do so, it looks beautiful.

The for syntax takes a while to underatand, no && || ! have to type and or not otherwise python seems comfy so far, granted I'm learning it for just like 3 days

fucking whitespace

>>55959736
Don't skip on list creation. It is incredible useful for creating huge amount of test data etc.

x = ['a','b','c']
y = ['d','e','f']
[i+ii for i in x for ii in y]

>> ['ad', 'ae', 'af', 'bd', 'be', 'bf', 'cd', 'ce', 'cf']

Also don't skip the format stuff. Boring, I know, but it is great for handling hex etc.

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>>55959736
how does "and" take more effort to understand than "&&", it's just intuitive

or for i in list:

how simple is that? fucking great is what it is

>>55959789
>for i in x for ii in y
I never knew you could do that I always double nested them.

Then again I never got too deeply into it

>>55959815
El poster kill yourself nigger filth

>>55959350
>synaptic sugar
I hate this phase

>>55959350
>Synaptic sugar
So like drugs...?

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>>55959841
no u.

>>55959830
Yeah its super handy for a lot of things. For example here is a mac address >>55959830
generator in one line. Zero effort.

':'.join( ['%02X' % randint(0, 16) for i in range(6)] )

>>55959861
>like
It's a metaphor?
No wonder they fired me.

>>55959914
You can remove the [ ]

>>55959553
how do I make my code pythonic, sempai?

>>55959996
http://python.net/~goodger/projects/pycon/2007/idiomatic/handout.html

>>55959137
no static typing

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made for script kiddies

>>55960009
>2016

>>55959206
Aren't you the guy who also had 10 years of working with C under his belt?

>>55959137
>selselfselfselfselfselfselfselfselfselfselfself
>amazingly shitty to call out to shell commands
>slow
>lambda syntax sucks
>__functions__ like __init__
Ruby is superior in literally every way with only the small blemish that parenthesized function calls cannot have spaces between the function name and the opening parenthesis.

>>55960173
I guessed it helped lel

>>55959499
This pretty much.

Otherwise it's fucking awesome for quickly doing science stuff.

>>55959789
list comprehensions are so cash

>>55959137
It's not Lua

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>>55959137

>>55960315

I would consider myself an Rubyist, but I can't agree completely..

Ruby is cleaner and more consistent to me (Python feeling more of a toolbox of methods). And boy do I love the functional programming tools you have, you get a lot of good things from Perl and JS without the quirks..

But what I like about Python is that you have a lot more and better libraries as soon as you leave the interwebs. In the Web, Ruby rules, because you have so many amazing frameworks with a metric fuckton of libraries for every kind of problem..
But as soon as you want do math or numeric stuff of even write a decent GUI, you have to code a lot of stuff for yourself (or include C libraries, which is possible, but not convenient), because there are no good solutions here.


I never found the metaprogramming capbilities of Ruby THAT important, but I do love the functional stuff. Unfortunately, the Python founder hates functional programming, otherwise I'd switch to Python.


Long story short: both langauges are pretty similar, both are pretty nice, both have differnt areas where they shine and we shouldn't fight each other.

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>>55960315
>__functions__ like __init__
I don't mind python but shit like this just drives me up the wall.

>>55959453
The real answer is to use requests.
The base http libs suck.

>>55960432
Like every other language that doesnt cut off the output

>>55959453
>First of all, not using a ascii only for any URI ever

>do this
>>55959488
btw use latin1 encoding

>>55960443
Is there something like bottle framework for ruby?

>>55959137
it doesn't have arrows or functors

Things you hate about OP, I'll start.
>his mom didn't abort him

>>55960603
>Doesn't have functors

class Accumulator(object):

    def __init__(self, n=0):
        self.n = n
    def __call__(self, x):
        self.n += x
        return self.n

acc = Accumulator(7)

print(acc(5))  ## 12

>>55960584

I don't know the bottel framework..

But for Ruby there's NanoC (tiny framework for static sites), Rack (an interface for the web, Rails works with Rack) or just very small frameworks like:
-Hobbit
-New York, New York
-Brooklyn
-Scorched
-Cuba
-Nancy

..and probably some more.

>>55960458
What's wrong with __init__?

>>55960458
>>55960740

Because className.init would have made much more sense and would have been far less bullshit to type

>>55960745
So it's a minor niggle at most. I thought you were going to post something profound, and that I was going to learn something today.

Consider your opinion discarded.

>>55959137
The gay semicolon and whitespace shit. C-style or bust.

>>55959155
This. It's not beautiful. It's just dumb.

>the syntax uses indentation
Into the trash it goes

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>>55959137
Syntax is so ugly. Pick one for god's sake.

>>55960821

ministry.__len__()

There you go.

>>55960821
Do you know the difference between functions and methods, ayy-non?

>>55960841
>>55960845
Yes I do know this things. But for god's sake you can use both in same code and it fucking werks.

>>55960432
https://docs.python.org/2/library/decimal.html

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>>55960494

>>55960850
What's wrong with having two ways to do something, other than upsetting your fragile sensibilities?

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>>55960677
>-Hobbit
>-New York, New York
>-Brooklyn
>-Scorched
>-Cuba
>-Nancy
What is up with these names, they sound terrible

>>55960871
Several problems. It makes noobs more into programming, we get horribly written poorly optimized non-functional programs.
It looks ugly too.

>>55960873
you forgot
- Longing
- Rusted
- Seventeen
- Dawn
- Stove
- Nine
- Kind-hearted
- Homecoming
- One
- Freight car

>>55960940
STOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPP
>>/tv/

>>55959137
Things you hate about OP, I'll start

>It exists

>>55960315
would consider ruby but ruby stands alone
python is more system/OS intrinsic

>>55959350
Switch is un-idiomatic. Use a dict of lambdas instead.

>>55959137
>there are so many things wrong with it you could write a LotR-scale trilogy about them

>>55959206
The figure is extremely skewed because python is the preferred language for extremely high-paying scientific applications that require PhDs.

>no pointers
>forced source code formatting
>forced GIL (i.e. garbage performance for anything remotely serious)
>shitty at any popular modern programming paradigm (e.g. OOP, functional, etc.)
>forced transition to 3 (because 2 was really even a bigger garbage) when most major libraries work only on 2 and there are huge differences between the two versions that makes porting code tedious at best
>awful performance, the GC in particular is probably the most horrible part of it

>>55962502
Everything is a pointer.
But yes, that's not a language for performance.

>>55962539
>Everything is a pointer.
You don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

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>>55962331
Fucking hell, it actually works. (Is that the advisable way or what??)

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>>55962571
lmao I don't even know any more.

This shit works


>>55962552
And it is true. Everything is python is passed by reference

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>>55962605
Congratz, you are a fucking idiot. Go and read a proper book like this one and then come back trying to reason what's pointer in Python.

>>55959137
>Indentation and line breaks as syntactic characters
>__init__, __str__, __repr__, __main__ etc. What the fuck
>Methods starting with "_" get treated differently then everything else. To me that's just obscure. I get the feature, but they should have introduced a keyword for that.
>Classes are ridiculous overall. You can tell that it just makes little sense as a concept when you have no type safety.
>Threading, what the fuck, just what the fuck.
>and, not, or instead of &&, !, ||
>No ++
>print just sucks. I don't get the logic or consistency here. Why is there are newline after every print? Why the weird overloading with the %-operator? Makes no fucking sense to me.
>",".join(list_of_strings) what the fuck man
>I just like to mention once again that I'd like to punch the guy who thought that "__main__" was a good idea in the face.
>I hate how everything is returned as reference. I see how it's the easiest way overall, but sometimes it drives me crazy.
>The performance is just so incredibly shitty and it's close to impossible to see whether an abstraction just makes the code prettier or comes at an insane performance penalty. There's just no intuition. See classes.

I mean, of course I still use it, I have to. But it really is not a nice language.

__bullshit_method_names__()

No fucking idea what type a variable is by looking at it

self as an argument for all member methods

No IDE can auto complete it because M I N I M A L I S M

Can't even import a file from one directory up without having to fucking add it to the PATH

Hey guys,

if I would learn Python, should I use python 3 or python 2 ..?

>>55960822

Y-you're welcome..


>>55962240

Ruby is preinstalled on OS X also you can use is as scripting language on linux just fine..

The fact that they still can't get people to migrate from 2 to 3, and that they still pander to 2babbies.

>>55963190
3

>>55959137
I hate how its installed by default on all the distros and so much shit is written with it.

I remeber there for a while most of ubuntu depended on it.

>>55962817
>No IDE can auto complete it because M I N I M A L I S M

>what is PyCharm, etc.

>>55962874
Learn proper file structure and virtualenv management.

The benefits vastly outweigh the cons for me, I really enjoy writing in Python but there are a few things I dislike about the language.

>No tail call optimization because Guido thinks recursion is confusing
>self.foo everywhere
>Constructor syntax is disgusting
>Missing syntactic sugar switch and increment operators (not really a big deal)
>Bad performance

I like indentation for code blocks.

>>55959155
>>55960797

Normally, you have to do brackets/parentheses and you have to indent (purely for aesthetics)

why not just cut out the brackets/parentheses? that way you get your syntax element and your aesthetics in one "device"

Also you get used to it in no time. And syntax is just syntax who the fuck cares.

>>55960821
> python 2

I shiggy diggy

Also what you are doing when you call "len()" is calling a function as if it was defined outside of a class. The len() function happens to have 1 argument. When you call ministry.upper() you are calling a method of an object that happens to have no arguments.

It's perfectly consistent.

>>55963654
why would you ever want to use _tail_ recursion in Python?

>>55963749

Retard.

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>>55963773
You wouldn't obviously, because it doesn't have tail call optimization.
If it had tail call optimization, you'd want to use tail recursion to reuse stack frames.

>>55959137
I first learnt to program in C++ way back in the year 2000. I also picked up C by association. Then Java in ~2003 then C# in ~2005.

I had to learn Python for a small project that used it a lot back in 2011. It is fucking horrible. Sorry but dynamic typing should be limited to "scripts" and not used in a fucking production application. It is a fucking nightmare.

>>55963804
yes, I know what it does
but to what end?

what in the hell would be solved "better" through tail recursion than a loop in Python?

>>55959137
argparse library

>>55963875
There are problems that are much easier to solve with recursion than doing things iteratively.
Try implementing depth-first search using a loop.

>>55963894
TAIL recursion, nigger

dfs with tail recursion is awkward as hell

>>55963791

bitch

>>55963910
Fine, take merge sort of binary search trees as an example. Both are simple to implement with tail recursion.

Tail recursion is just a means to an end, it's simpler than other forms of recursion at times, and awkward in others.
The fact that Python doesn't have tail call optimization is a detriment, because there's nothing wrong with tail calls.

>>55963943
merge sort or binary search trees*

>>55963943
okay lets do something simple with bsts:

def exists(tree, item):
  if not tree:
    return False
  if tree.key == item:
    return True
  elsif item < tree.key:
     return exists(tree.left, item)
  elsif item > tree.key:
     return exists(tree.right, item)

def exists(tree, item):
  while tree:
    if tree.key == item:
      return True
    elsif item < tree.key:
      tree = tree.left
    elsif item > tree.key:
      tree = tree.right
  return False

where's the advantage over loops again?

>>55959137
That the designer(s, at some point?) had and have no fucking clue what they were and are doing. Mixed with the whole reference implementation thing.
I bet the process went like this:

>me wanna language
>oh, wait cum pilers are hard to implement, let's write an interpreter instead
>oh, wait, interpreters are harder to implement, if a language has (inferred) static typing and i've eaten the retarded dynamic as possible hype anyway
>oh, wait, now the interpreter is too slow, despite our misdesign that forbids more than one interpreter instance
>oh, wait, our retarded design doesn't allow for a better garbage collector
>oh, wait, a compiler worth the efforts isn't possible with our semantics
>oh, wait, the only thing worthwhile about Python is the libraries, so better attempts of interpreters with horrible amounts of man-years work have to support those too...

etc pp

>>55963890
whats wrong with argparse?

>>55963749
>why not just cut out the brackets/parentheses?
Because it's up to the user how he want's so structure his code. Maybe the user wants to write something like a loop in one line.

>>55963875
computational purity

>>55963749
len(x) is syntactic sugar for x.__len__(), retard.
>typical pythonfag's understanding of their own favorite language.jpg

>>55963190
If you want to get shit done then 2
if you want to meme pythonicness then 3
If you choose 3 then make a stackoverflow account to use all features of 3

>>55963190
Everything real is still mostly using 2. The differences are not that big that this would be a big problem later on.

>>55964198
insanely convoluted

>>55962605
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-class_function

Of course it works. Read more.

>>55964075
That's the point, friend. Recursion doesn't offer any objective advantage over iterative solutions in Python, and it's like that by design. Tail call elimination would make the recursive solution more optimal, or at least as optimal as the iterative solution.

Personally I like implementing BSTs recursively because it feels intuitive. Some people like doing it iteratively.

Both solution, at least when it comes to BSTs are objectively the same when it comes to performance (in other languages), and the simplicity to implement it is basically subjective.

>>55966105
tail recursive python code is only in the optimal case about as clear as the iterative equivalent
(although probably less clear to the average Python programmer who's much more used to loops)
usually it ends up more awkard (extra function, no sugar for iterators, etc.)
you preferring to implement bsts that way is hardly a reason to support it in a language that promotes "one way to do it"

>>55966415
It's not a reason for it to be a feature in the language, sure. It's just an aspect of the design philosophy that I disagree with.
It's not a objective flaw with the language since Python tries to push you towards writing "pythonic" code, it's a personal issue I have with Python.

I still very much like the language, and of course I implement things iteratively if they are simpler, or make more sense, but sometimes I just want to write a tail recursive function, and I want it to not blow up the entire stack.

oh is this the daily python shitposting thread?

ok uhh uhhh.

python is gay

>>55959449
>Haven't had much experience with it, or programming in general but much prefer how Java does it.

Average /g/ poster

>>55963749
because upper() is string shit, behavior of len() is defined by __len__() magic. Can't talk about lists, tuples, dicts and more because you are moron and you know nothing, based 10 years-of-experience C++ devop

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>>55959789
>just learning python now
>my first programming language
>read your post
>mind blown
>fug

>>55959137
The GIL.

>>55959137
python programmers who call themselves pythonistas

>>55959301
Hell the fuck no. £100,000 in London is nothing.

>>55959445
>python 3

even diehard pyfags dont use python 3

>>55959206
>£
How's Brexit?

>>55962669
>You can tell that it just makes little sense as a concept when you have no type safety.
The only language with type safety is Haskell, and the few other languages with Option types.

>Fooable x;
> x.foo();
>NullPointerError
>muh type safety

>>55959295
>>55959393
These

Default arguments are initialised once instead of being initialised every time you call the function

".".join(string) and other shit like that. I understand the reason why it has to be like that but it's still unintuitive.

if __name__ == "__main__" etc.

Dynamic typing. Massive kek now that they're adding type annotations.

I like explicit use of self, but wish people more commonly called the self parameter "me" or something shorter.

Not personally a fan of whitespace syntax

>>55962669
>Methods starting with "_" get treated differently then everything else.
They don't? It's a visual indicator that you shouldn't be using it external to where it is defined.

>>55968981
t. inbred

>>55969354
t. Excellent poster

>>55960584
Sinatra?

>>55965287
This was mainly done because __len__ was used so often and Python lambda's are dog shit. Python is just one big disgusting dict hack and Guido has no idea what he's doing.

>>55969033
>I understand the reason why it has to be like

There is no good reason it has to be like that. For proof see basically every other language in existence.

>>55969844
>Python is just one big disgusting dict hack and Guido has no idea what he's doing.
You mean, the same as Javascript and Lua?

Mapping types are great, that's why its used in many high level languages.

>>55959137
it makes writing in languages that aren't python feel worse

>>55969867
>There is no good reason it has to be like that
It's unintuitive if you were brought up on proper CS fundamentals instead of brogrammer web dev education. The evaluation context is not well defined and if you want it to be evaluated on every call, just put it in the procedure body, you know, the thing that is executed on every call.

>>55969996
also the faggots clinging to python 2 can't forget about those

Python3 is a fine language with a great community. It is very boring to write, imo, so I avoid using it for big projects. It's great for whipping together something quick. I'm particularly not a fan of the significant whitespace.

>>55970039
I'd like to clarify: The community is great in that there is a lot of support for various platforms and use cases. The community is not great in that it tends to circlejerk about Python being the best language due to its simplicity and low barrier of entry

>>55970000
That's probably the dumbest reasoning I've heard yet.

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>>55970000
>CS fundamentals
>Python

TOP KEK

>>55969932
Most high level languages don't base their entire low level representation around hash tables. This is one of the reasons why Python is basically impossible to optimise well.

>>55970272
You LITERALLY never need to optimise python.

>>55960584
Check out Sinatra.

>>55960674
That's not a functor in any sense.

>>55970370
What exactly do you think a functor is?

>In other words, a functor is any object that can be used with () in the manner of a function.

>>55959137
PEP8 (official coding conventions)

>>55959137
my gf left me for a python """engineer"""

>>55969740
You mean flask.

>>55970454
A functor is a homomorphism between categories. There's no basis anywhere for your retarded definition.

>>55970621
then write me a functor in a non-retarded language

>>55970637

trait Functor[F[_]] {
  def map[A, B](fa: F[A])(f: A => B): F[B]
}

>>55970693
NON-RETARDED you fucking faggot

c, c++ (python lmao), php etc.

>>55959137

It has poor support on smartphones and video game consoles.

>>55970714
Functor's can't be properly implemented in shit languages without higher kinded types. That doesn't change the definition of the word.

> a functor is any object that can be used with () in the manner of a function

That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read and only a "Pythonista" could be that fucking stupid.

>>55970748
>Unlike Functions Functor can have state.
>Functor fits into OOP paradigm as compared to functions.
>Functor often may be inlined unlike Function pointers
>Functor doesn't require vtable and runtime dispatching, and hence more efficient in most cases.

Unlike function pointers. Gee I wonder why they compare function pointers to functors...

>>55970773
There's no definition of functor that even remotely resembles what you're calling a functor. Are you some retarded web babby? There's a mathematical definition of the word.

Functor can refer to a function object in OO languages.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_object

>>55970810

From: http://cs.stmarys.ca/~porter/csc/ref/stl/function_objects.html
>
Function objects (also called functors) are an STL feature that you may not employ immediately when you start using the STL. They are, however, very useful in many situations and an STL facility with which you should become acquainted. They give the STL a flexibility that it would not otherwise have, and also contribute to STL efficiency. The most common uses for function objects are for generating data, for testing data, and for applying operations to data.

A function object (or functor) is simply any object of a class that provides at least one definition for operator() What this means is that if you then declare an object f of the class in which this operator() is defined you can subsequently use that object f just like you would use an "ordinary" function. For example, you could have an assignment statement like

someValue = f(arg1, arg2);
which is the same as

someValue = f.operator()(arg1, arg2);

>>55970824
Oops, meant to link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functor_(disambiguation)

>>55970554
you mean __engineer__?

>>55970824
Yeah by the same people that call jQuery a monad. Complete fucking idiots like >>55970831

>>55970846
>ignore all evidence against your argument
>Everybody else is dummmm

I bet you program solely in Scratch

>>55970872
> evidence
> wikipedia
> link to shit tier Canadian school
> STL garbage

Link me to a respected math paper. CS idiots that redefine words can fuck off.

Homonyms are a thing, people. It's possible for one word to represent multiple different ideas.

>this language i like lacks many high-quality libraries due to not a lot of programmers using it
>better act like an elitist douche on the internet, that will make it more popular

lmfao haskell will be dead in 5 years while python will only continue to increase in popularity

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I hate that I have an internship using Python and my boss just tells me to do things and never follows up or encourages me and I had to learn it entirely by myself and he gave me a task where I had to use Pandas and was like "this shouldn't take you a while" but it's taken me a while and when I ask my supervisor a question once every 4 or 5 days (like about best way to use unicode with pandas) his tone is demeaning in nature

>>55970970
99.99999% of Python use is mundane garbage like scripts for system administration and web development and it's going to stay that way. If I had to use Python regularly I'd do the world a favor and kill myself.

>>55971028
99.99999% of haskell code will never be run by more than ten people

>>55971057
100% of haskell code doesn't do anything anyway

>>55970843
underrated reply

>>55963421
>Learn proper file structure
Well I have the same problem as that anon. Can anyone help me then.

So I have a huge fucking program and segmented all the custom implementations in their own folders:

/project/website1scraper/
/project/website2scraper/
/project/websiteNscraper/

Each of these websites have their own implementations of scraping, own implementation of scanning PDF files it downloads, ability to write to a csv.

And shit like this I want to import in to each folder

/project/database_util.py
/project/ftp_connector.py
/project/email_connector.py

What I've done now is have the program send back an object to the superclass to use but there has to be a better way.

Anything that you have to install a bunch of crap to run is shit

>>55970621
>A functor is a homomorphism between categories
So in other words a mathematical function, or any pure FP function.

>>55970824
Now that's just silly, those are just first class closures.

>>55959137
LISTS, AND DYNAMIC VARIABLES!!!!

sssssssssssssSSSSSSSSssSSSSSSSSSSSsss like a snake why i liek it xD

>>55970621
A functor is a pair of mappings (not necessarily functions because not all categories are small) between two categories that behaves well w.r.t. composition and preserves associativity.
Homomorphisms are from group theory and are a particular kind of functor because a group is a one-element category with many invertible arrows.

>>55960004
T-this is beautiful

Thank you