Why is the HDD market dead? Nothing interesting is happening...

>>55949858
>Nothing interesting is happening

>helium drives
>SMR
>HAMR

>>55949858
What do you mean nothing interesting? WD released WD Gold recently, and that's a really nice HDD.

>>55949869
>interesting

>>55949879

neo /g/ everyone

back to >>>/r/pcmr you go

>>55949858
SSD failure rate compared to HDDs is atleast 3 times higher.

>>55949858
>Nothing interesting is happening
SMR and Helium drives

>Also whats up with the pricing? A 2TB HDD costs the same as it was in 2011.
obviously you can't afford either of the previously mentioned disks so why are you even posting

Local Microcenter started selling those Seagate 10TB helium drives recently. For the low low price of $550 each, but in hopeful suoer high capacity disks like that will reach better pricing soon. I would love nothing more than to fill my itx file server with 6 huge 10TB drives. Fill every one of its slots like the whore it is.

>>55949899
It's more a case of them not actually affecting HDD prices.
Big capacity is going up but so are the prices

>>55949934
>inb4 Seagate memes

Hate to see the RAID recovery time if one of those disks fail

>>55949911

While this might be true hard drives have existed for nearly 70 fucking years now so they're quite mature. Given how fast SSD is "evolving" it won't be too long before 20TB SSDs for $200 will be commonplace with write cycle lifespans rated in the multi-petabyte range.

>>55949858
>>55949921
Nor him but 2TB drives seem to be the lost capacity. 1TB drives are around $40 new. 2TB $70. 4TB $100 and even 6TB drives can be had for sub $200 now. I'm at the point where it's " why bother with a 2TB when for am extra $30 I can get double the capacity?"

Like I still don't understand why sub 500GB disks still exist. Like why a brand new 320GB WD blue is still $60

>>55949963
god you're retarded

>wont be too long
>20TB for $200
maybe in 10 years

>write cycle lifespans rated in the multi-petabyte range
already are here, my 480GB Seagate 600 Pros have multi-PB write endurance

>>55949869
>helium drives

this is the dumbest thing that happened to HDDs

Does anyone here have one of those new 8-10TB HDDs?

How are they? Are they loud? Thinking of getting a 8GB one, but just the thought of it failing and losing 8TB is fucking scary.

>>55950114
The 10TB drives ive heard are quite reliable but come at a very very high price premium of course.

The 8TB doesn't have as many reviews because everyone seems to be looking towards the newer, cooler running 10TB helium drives. Only 8TB I know of is the 5,900rpm Seagate "archive" drive that has a horrendous failure rate.

For the price ofba garbage 8TB, you can get a really good 6TB.

And general rule of thumb with drives is always have a backup. If you're buying a new drive, build your budget so you can buy 2. One for storage, one for redundancy.

>>55949858
>A 2TB HDD costs the same as it was in 2011.

Well it took some time to recover from the floods floods in Asia.

SSD prices will nosedive in a few years, just like HDTV prices have in the last 3 years.

>>55950183
>Only 8TB I know of is the 5,900rpm Seagate "archive" drive that has a horrendous failure rate.
HGST has 8TB Heliums

>>55950183
Can you recommend a really good 6TB drive?

WD RED seems like the most popular.

>>55950064

Care to elaborate more on your thoughts?

>>55950207
Huh didn't know that. And how do helium drives work? Are they just pumped with helium and a gasket keeps the gas in? Is the drive a single enclosed peice? Is helium leakage over time a possibility or something id have to worry about?

And what's the benefit of helium? I mean I know it means less air drag, but what does that do? The drive is still only spinning at 7,200rpm. Does less air drag mean longer life span?

>>55950247
helim is just a meme that WD invented to sell you their shit for even more shekels

>>55950247
https://www.hgst.com/sites/default/files/resources/HGST-Helium-Technology-BR03.pdf

>>55950247
>Are they just pumped with helium and a gasket keeps the gas in? Is the drive a single enclosed peice?
yes

> Is helium leakage over time a possibility or something id have to worry about?
probably, although probably by then the disk will have long been obsolete

>And what's the benefit of helium?
allows higher disk densities as the gas doesnt interfere with the recording process as much. helium is less dense than nitrogen/oxygen.

>Does less air drag mean longer life span?
no. the bearings will still get fucked regardless simply from spinning. or electromigration will fuck a chip.

>>55950212
WD reds are good. Bit slower than others with sustained write speeds but if it is going in an NAS or server, it'll be right at home.

Personally I'd say anything from HGST. Their drives are always quality. Or if you're looking to save money, the Toshiba X300 line is rather good I have their 4TB variants of that line and they've been rock solid. They were a good deal cheaper than their competitors at the time too. In the first few weeks I owned then, I wrote close to 10TB worth of data to them and not a single hiccup.

Even the Seagate 6TB stuff seems decent. 6TB seems to be on lock as far overall build quality and projected life span from every manufacturer. Where as 8/10TB models are more dubious because they're newer tech.

When will the first 100$ 1TB SDD be a reality?
2020?

>>55949872
>WD Gold hard drives are designed to handle workloads up to 550TB per year which is among the highest workload capability of any 3.5-inch hard drive

is the 550TB write or read? or is it combined?

>>55949899
How do you know the exact reddit forum?

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>>55949858
these threads always remind me why I hate /g/. an attempt to create discussion around something that is genuinely interesting and relevant is de-railed by 18yr olds who know nothing other than how to assemble the machines they built on pcpartpicker.

i wish 4chan in general would drop this elitist mentality and begin to realize that 90% of the userbase of this forum, as well as any other is braindead teenagers.

>>55949858
my 3TB is now only 6% cheaper than it was when I bought it in 2013

>>55949879
What "interesting" advancements have been made in drives at all in their lifetime? New motors? Different head types? Platter material changes? What the fuck do you want? Superconducting foreskin magnets?

>>55949858
You know anon, there comes a point where technology is on the verge of obsolescence, so companies start to abandon it in favor of more promising formats,

HDDs are at that stage.

The reason the HDD market is dying is the same reason why we don't still use punched cards and tape drives.

>>55953543
every major database in the world uses tape drives you fucking mongoloid

>>55953588
No shit, but does anyone in this thread?

They fulfill a niche role due to their large storage capacity and cheap cost. But they have absolutely horrendous access speeds. My point was, the average user had absolutely no use for them. As will be the case with HDDs in the coming years.

I'd really like to see the cost of drives go down.

I could use someone elses opinions on this matter.

Lets say I'm pewdiepie and I need 10 drives for my desktop, 1 ssd and 3x3 hard drives (3 of the drives each have two backups each using bvckup2 file sync so 9 hdds in total because I am not willing to lose data or trust a 3rd party with it)

Is there a even a decently priced NAS/enclosure for this, or am I actually better off getting a nzxt h440 case for (120$ CAD) and putting in an asrock fatality Z170 (340$ CAD) which has 10x sata III ? I could probably get 10 single drive enclosures for even cheaper, but I have no idea how I could plug them into my UPS since that only has 4 powered outlets.

>>55953988

I forgot to factor in the price of skylake but you get the idea

>>55953988
>Lets say I'm pewdiepie

so you make 4 million $ per year and you cant buy a decent NAS??

>>55954123

what advantages does the nas offer over what I suggested?

>>55953988
>Is there a even a decently priced NAS/enclosure for this
Pretty much SAS JBOD enclosure.

>>55949858
Hey Op, how much inflation had occurred between 2011 and today

I'd guess the same amount hdds would have gone down

>>55954525
the inflation rate from 2011 till now is around 4%

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Dug up these little bastards today to find that 3/4 still work (yes,I know one of those isn't mechanical). Did miniaturization really fall out this hard when flash technology took off?

>>55949858
Barracuda 10tb and firecuda ultra 2tb just came out, what are you on about

>>55954644
I just don't think there was a real reason to improve it further, Microdrives had some pretty good advantages early on like larger capacity and better long-term reliability (no write limits and more mature technology) but recently flash has been getting so exponentially better, cheaper and has had a ton of those kinks hammered out well enough that it doesn't make much of a difference to the end user.

>>55954644
>>55954784
Are there any real-world applications for things like this any more? Even useless little gadget projects. They managed to format, so I want to see if I can put them to work again, but not back in their home of an iPod Mini.

>>55955027
>Are there any real-world applications for things like this any more?
No, flash based CF cards have long since exceeded them in both performance and capacity. The only thing I own which even accepts CF cards is a Cisco firewall for the VPN software

>>55952616
are brain dead teenagers*

>>55950236

Not him but the helium gas particle is one of the smallest gas particles. There is no to contain helium in any enclosure for a long time. Once the helium escapes the drive is dead.

From a technical standpoint it would be better to use vacuum than any gas.

>>55950372

Late 2017 I bet, since you can already find 500GB for about 100$ at cheapest even today.
The SSD market is stirring like crazy, now that the HDD is slowly but surely going away, so more and more competition is going to emerge and the prices should finally become more reasonable.

>>55951634
Workload is combined. Also, WD has a habit of reselling HDDs that already exist under new names and changing one thing. It's just an Enterprise class drive.

Seagate has done exactly this with their new names but at least the old products are actually going away. This has never been true in WDs case.

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>>55949872
>WD
>Good
HAHAHA GET A LOAD OF THIS FAGGOT

>>55955615
>From a technical standpoint it would be better to use vacuum than any gas.

Once the helium escapes, isn't the drive functionally a vacuum anyways? It's not like anything larger than helium can get into the drive either.

>>55949911
Said the man from 2009. Get with the times. This isn't true at all anymore. In fact it's the opposite. Consumer level SSDs will last as long as Enterprise HDDs if not longer.

>>55949934
Everyone is doing 10TB at this point.

>>55949981
Last time I did the math 4TB was the sweet spot for price/GB in the US.

>>55950183
Your info is outdated. Everyone has 8TB and 10TB PMR drives. Avoid that SMR shit in the archive drives at all costs.

>>55950212
Seagate Enterprise NAS (it'll be the "pro" version of whatever the fuck their new NAS name is), Red Pro, or Ultastar. 5 year warranty and 7200 RPM over 5400/5900 is worth it in the long run.

>>55950281
HGST did it first retard.

>>55954335
Vastly simpler management, access from any device anywhere, and you can just stick it somewhere it won't be seen.

>>55956552
>actually giving a shit about data from a company who uses desktop class drives in servers

Backblaze has an ultra specific scenario where this makes sense for them but retards like to share this data as if it means anything to the rest of the world. Plus, last I checked, they didn't even do full Enterpise vs. Desktop comparisons. They just did a quick comparison where the HDDs weren't even used for the same tasks. They absolutely suck when it comes to data.

What HDD should I buy to store my chinese cartoons?

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>>55956552

>>55953730
>>55953588
I want to back up my shit onto tape drives for shits and giggles, how do I go about this

>>55957279
Hgst was Hitachi drives but it was purchased by wd and has not changed their production standards to wd's relatively lower standards

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>>55957279
Hitachi drives, still uses ibm standards

They are only owned in name, not in product

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>>55950372
never SDD's a jew meme

>>55949934
>$550 for shit drive just because its 10TB
rather pay more and get quality drives in a proper RAID of the same capacity

>>55950336
>buying WD meme color drives
>>>/v/

>Using a hard drive
>Not using a cloud

>>55958188

>using the cloud

>>55956524
It's a new enterprise drive. Literally over 200MB/s read speed sustained.

How many 1tb 7200 HDDs do I need to throw into raid0 to rival a Samsung 850 evo?

>>55949858

Why is /g/ so against the mechanical HDD dying meme?

What is wrong with SSD becoming cheaper and more reliable?

>>55958238
Ssd is too unreliable.

>>55958238

its not cheaper in terms of space

i need more space to fit all my hentai

>>55949858
HDDs, as a technology, are obsolete. SSDs do everything better. The sole things preventing HDDs from being obsolete as a purchase, is price. SSD prices have been falling pretty steadily though, so even that may not be an issue in a couple of years.

>>55958248
More reliable than HDDs.

>>55958248
For an OS and programs it's good. But for data I absolutely need, yeah don't trust it. I have multiple backups.

>>55958256
Well if an HDD is dead, you can send it to a plant to have the date recover with the use of forensics data recovery, since SSD is all on chips it's much harder for them to recover it.

While they don't fail as often as traditional hard drives they do still fail and often times if you don't have backup you're boned.

>>55958248
l o fucking l

HDDs have actual mechanical shit in them which can and will break, the only thing you have to worry about with SSDs is if you have a super high I/O application because of the limited number or RW cycles - wear leveling has some a long way since the introduction of SSDs and besides, you really should have multiple copies of any data that you actually give a fuck about, ideally in a raid configuration so you can just swap a drive if it fails

one thing about ssd in raid though is the easiest way to get one to fail is by trying to recover parity data from the other drives if one does fail

>>55958284
Once upon a time, the internet was slow, and storage was expensive. Backups (local, or off-site) were not popular, due to price.

Today, 500GB of online storage costs $50. And that is just what a quick googling shows. I am sure there is cheaper stuff.

So:
-Performance
-Reliability
-Phsyical size
-Noise
are all in favour of SSDs. When price parity is reached, HDDs will be obsolete.

>>55958256
No, ssd are not more reliable. HDD failure is predictable and preventable most of the time. Consumer ssd on the other hand have failed with no warning or detectable reason. Also, Intel 530 and 535 ssd have self destructive firmware bug which Intel is unwilling to fix because "you're using it wrong, buy enterprise grade product if you want to use it like that."
Fuck ssd. I have 4 of them, but unlike my hdds I have to worry about the data that's on them and my contingency plans for when they fail.

>>55958316
>HDDs will be obsolete.
there won't be a price parity
HDDs will stay the cheaper medium while growing in storage size
the only way a price parity will be reached is if there is a stop in platter density growth

as long as you have two backups it doesn't really matter if ssd's or hdd's are more reliable?

wouldn't the failure rate be less than a few percent per drive anyways?

>>55949858
>A 2TB HDD costs the same as it was in 2011
Shhhh... they'll burn a factory down if they hear that (like they did when DDR3 bottomed out) and we'll be right back to flood pricing.

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>>55956552
>just bought a 2015 4TB Seagate to backup my data because it was dirt cheap

H-how screwed am I?

>>55958435
>there won't be a price parity
HDD prices have not changed much in recent years.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10315/market-views-hdd-shipments-down-q1-2016/3

SSDs have been decreasing in price.

>>55958561
>buying seagate hdds in 2016

baka

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>>55949858
>not using 2TB 2,5" HDDs
>outdated 3,5" standard
You should all kys

>>55958238
My guess is that it's a combination of chinz contrarianism and a knee-jerk reaction to SSDfags who won't shut the fuck up about them. They're seriously fucking annoying, that and they bite every little piece of bait you throw their way.

>>55958561
>>55958645
It's funny how /g/ still works themselves up in a lather over this one chart from five fucking years ago that only relates to one specific oddball capacity.

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>>55958705
>>five fucking years ago
>2014 2015 2016
>>one specific oddball capacity
>all drive sizes

>>55958662
>lower speed laptop hdd in desktop
>le kym meme

hang yourself my man

>>55958821
>5400RPM
>still 135MB/s

>>55958316
>backup to the cloud
lmao you fucking cuck, your guides suck too btw
kys

>what happened?

no one fell for the s.m.a.r.t meme

>>55958821
high density + low speed = low noise

>>55956611
Isn't HGST WD?

>>55959446
Same company but they do things a little different.

I don't know when they started the helium shit but they weren't WD in the past.

>>55956611
Also Blackblaze only tested the regular Reds in an environment not suited for those disks.

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>>55958561
Youll be fine for a few years atleast, my 1TB Seagate died like 2 hours ago after 3 weeks of clicking and reallocating sectors like a motherfucker it finally died today

RIP 25-11-2011 - 07-08-2016 ;_;

>>55958561
i had a seagate and it died within 4 months, it also shit itself completely numerous times within those 4 months, but I was testing botnet microshill 10 on it.

>>55959549
keep in mind that seagate improved a lot on reliablity when it came to 4TB HDD's

Actually better than WD there topkek

>>55959549
My two seagates from 2002 are still alive, though their condition isn't really good. CDI reported that something is wrong with both of them and it was the same thing..guess it was "Reallocated Sectors Count"?

>>55960095
You have an issue when it says "uncorrectable sectors" or some shit

1TB WD Caviar Blue 7200 RPM HDD looks like a really good compromise for 50€ to me.

>>55960225
Nah, it's "Reallocated Sectors", just checked that out. One is "53" and another one is "64".

>>55960353
keep an eye on it, if it keeps going up then you might have to consider stop using it, and get a new hdd, move the data over and scrap the old one

>>55960373
I don't have anything there anyway, with exception of fresh install of Win 7. I have another seagate 320G with Linux Mint on it, but that's my second PC anyway, so it's not really that bad.

>>55953588
tapes are also phased out, last company recently stopped producing them

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>>55958831
>135MB/s

>>55958821
Kys NAOW NEWFAG!

>>55961057
kys urself

>>55961099
Don't tick me off or I'll write a really nasty email to Hiro about your stupidity.

>>55961105
Is your spaghetti upsetti?

>>55961179
I'm upset at dumb poop nuggets like you spreading garbage on MY board.

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>>55961183
>MY board

>>55958209
maybe 4

>>55955615
If it is a vacuum then the heads would crash and no more data.

Helium might leak, but if it already is lower pressure than outside of the drive, then it will leak extremely slowly. Oxygen and nitrogen isn't getting in either.

>>55956435
>The SSD market is stirring like crazy, now that the HDD is slowly but surely going away
>surely going away

SSDs and HDDs have different data storage methods with their own unique downsides in terms of data dissipation and drive failure. Incidentally, both the SSD and HDD counteract each other in terms of failure which means that choosing an SSD-only or HDD-only build, rather than utilizing both for their best purpose, makes you an ignorant retard who doesn't know shit about how SSDs and HDDs work.
And for this reason and this reason alone, both the HDD and SSD market will always exist in parallel.
HDD/SSD hybrid drives, are regarded as the most useless meme retarded shit precisely because all the positives of both drives are lost by combining them, while all the negatives manifest twofold.

>>55961321
>makes you an ignorant retard

When the purge becomes real you're the first guy on my "to visit" list.

>>55961343
>t. sweaty neckbeard

>>55961357
The only thing I'm sweating with is RAGE and the only thing my beard is made out of is REVENGE.

>>55961321
nah m8, HDDs wont exist in 10 years, maybe even sooner

in 5 years we will get 20TB SSDs

>>55961362
>t. sweaty autistic neckbeard

>>55961420
Even if you had 2000TB SSDs, you'd still need HDDs for storage to counteract potential electrical failure wiping out SSDs which HDDs are pretty much proofed against due to mechanical operation and mechanical storage enabling platter reading at recovering services. There's a good reason companies never ever use SSDs for servers unless it is some marketing sponsorship jab.
And the data dissipation is completely different.
An SSD dissipates whether you like it or not. You gotta power it from time to time in order for data to stay intact.
An HDD's dissipation is only dependent on surrounding air properties afflicting the magnetic particles. So long as you keep it in a plastic container for HDDs, away from moisture and temperature fluctuations, you can use the same data 20-50 years later. Magnetic domain flipping has already been resolved a decade ago with new platter materials.
Something dies on an SSD, it's done.
A mechanical part on the HDD dies? No biggie so long as the platter is not damaged.

>>55961476
I'm pretty sure most companies with a lot of servers use SSDs for caching purposes.

>>55961626
They do. That's the function SSDs are best used for.

>>55949858
they are slowly getting replaced with NVMe

>>55961476
Dude when SSDs get cheaper everyone will use another SSD as a backup.

SSD are perfect for datacenters because of their small form factor and low energy consumption.
I 100% belive that SSDs or some kind of similar technology will replace HDDs in the next 10 years.

>>55961692
>SSDs are perfect for deta-centers so all your SSDs can fail at once to an electrical or software bug, or a firmware fuckup or software based attack, and data becomes impossible to retrieve most of the time; instead of using HDDs which can't die all at once, have only mechanical failures and don't depend on firmware, and can have data retrieved 100% of the time unless the platter is damaged
You are a retarded one.

>>55961692
Linus-shit-tips, pls go. Your SSD "datacenter" already proved enough.

What hard drives use SMR or HAMR nowadays?

>>55958561
Seagate 4 TB Desktop model? It has the lowest failure rate out of any 4 TB you could think of.

Just be careful, Seagate plans obsolsence with their drives after warranty runs out if you buy the Desktop model

>>55961713
>all your SSDs can fail at once

wew lad

>>55949858
>A 2TB HDD costs the same as it was in 2011.
No they don't you fucking tard.

>>55949858
this is akin to discussion that would have been had some years ago "why are CD drive prices stagnant" (CD drives/players)

because CD drives were @ the end of the line
SSDs are the solution .. Hard drives are still being sold, but they are a stopgap, limited life

"why has the price of VHS recorders frozen?"

circa 1997

>>55962117
because nobody is interested in developing HD drive technology / features anymore - it is better to market/develop SSDs. This is obvious.

"what, you mean your storage had a little spinny wheel in it???" (kid to father, circa 2025)

thats SOOOOOO steampunk

>>55962117
>because CD drives were @ the end of the line
CD's, DVD's, BR, HDDs, all function on the basis of a platter storing information physically. Each builds up on the former. It's logical that the replace constantly.

SSDs are a completely separate storage method which introduces electrical and software vulnerabilities that the physical category doesn't suffer from, and no viable long-term storage solution due to off-state dissipation to serve as archiving drives.

HDDs don't have a stopgap unless you can state a physical inscription technology which replaces them as a superior,
because SSDs aren't physical inscription and the physics they run by is completely different.
You are basically arguing that the keyboard is at a stopgap because a touchscreen has appeared. Nope. The keyboard has too many usage specifics going for it which the touchscreen lacks for it to stop existing, and so do HDDs.

>>55949911
only if you shop at alibaba like a /g/ tier retard

>>55960449
Source please, I bet you are confusing the discontinuation of data tapes with the discontinuation of betacam tapes.

>get hitachi drive for almost free
>disguisting loud noise
I should have searched before installing everything on it
JUST

As long as HDDs are cheaper per $ there will be a market. Expect a crossover in 3 or 4 years.

>>55963116
>complaining about hdd noise
Those things never get that loud even at their worst. If you can't handle that how could you manage the comforting roar of server fans? Hell, let alone strong PC fans.

3TB/HDD vs 256 GB SSD for same price

That's why. There is no reason to lower the price of a HDD. They already are the cheaper alternative to a ssd. When ssd become 75gb/dollar then the HDD will probably be obsolete.

>>55963276
I already read this twice and I'm loving it

>>55963276
its.. beautiful

>>55950336
>Toshiba X300 line is rather good
It's a WD Black for WD Blue money and better than WD Red reliability. I call that the best of all worlds. I've got a 5TB version for $130 when it was on a flash sale. The 4TB version was $149 that day.
It's loud as fuck though when it's copying or writing a lot of files.

>>55953988
>Is there a even a decently priced NAS/enclosure for this
Silverstone and Lian-Li have Mini-ITX cases built for NAS purposes. There are also dedicated NAS cases that comes in completely bare versions, so you'll have to put in your own motherboard.

>>55964563

Interesting, I hadn't even considered mini-itx, however, I can only seem to find up to 6 sata ports on them. If I need 9+ it seems I would need to go with atx.

I don't know what the guy that was talking about jbod was smoking. The cheapest 10 drive jbod enclosure I could find was $2000 USD.

>>55966612
just get a pci sata controller you dumb negro

>>55966612
I found an 8-bay empty NAS chassis for $300
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIABEE4A08191&cm_re=nas_chassis-_-9SIABEE4A08191-_-Product

Also there are mini-ITX boards with 8 SATA ports
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01B96248O/?tag=pcpapi-20
Just add a SAS SFF-8087 RAID card on it (with an SFF-8087-to-4-SATA splitters) and you can get up to 16 or more SATA ports.
Word of warning: ASRock uses some shitty ASMedia controller for the extra two SATA ports, so they will conk out if you have all the ports occupied without updating the drivers to the latest version. Putting a heat sink right on the controller seems to work too.

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>>55963276
Jesus Christ

>>55949869
>helium drives

Why would I want my hard drives to float away?

>>55966664
>>55966903

i was not previously aware of pci sata or sas splitters

i'll probably end up getting a controller with splitters

though I am kinda set on at least an atx case though, since I want to fit a 360mm radiator on it.

>>55966984

dude thats just some copypasta

>>55967309
You're better off with a multi-bay external hard drive enclosure then. USB3.0 only, unless you have a motherboard with an eSATA port that supports port multiplying.