how can freetards even compete?

>>55829893
Apparently they can, considering that most of the Internet runs on free software that was certainly not developed with the """Visual Studio""".

pico strong

>>55829893
By using their autism to claim 'bloat' and 'used RAM is wasted RAM'.

>>55829893
visual studio hides spyware in your compiled c++ binaries.

>how can freetards compete?

pretty easily.

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>>55830012
name 1 (one) ide which is better then VS

They literally can't. They're forever stuck with development processes made in the 70s. Pretty sad.

>>55830012
No it doesn't retard, that was fake.

Eclipse
It's either you love it or hate it

Netbeans
Resource hogs, but it features lot more than visual studio.

They can't.
VS is by far and away the most well designed IDE ever made.

>ide
>he needs hand holding to program

>>55829893
>slow
>AWFUL support for C API and C++
>C#
>Winforms
>only works on Windows
>IDE
I'll stick to Emacs as my IDE

>>55830033
notepad

>>55830222
If it's really good why resharper exists ?

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>>55830271
>Emacs

>>55829893
by using vim, the best text editor available on this planet today
you should try it anon

>>55830277
>emacs
enjoy your flashing menubar on each startup
it seriously triggers my autism

>>55830249
>>slow
False.
>>AWFUL support for C API and C++
Far better than the built-in in Emacs, by a wide margin.
>>C#
Having the best language available is considered bad now?
>>Winforms
Same. You freecucks wish something like that existed on Linux. It would solve a lot of problems with the low quality GUI programs you have actually, like that joke that GTK+3 is.
>>only works on Windows
Good.
>>IDE
Integrated Development Environment, yes.
>I'll stick to Emacs as my IDE
lmao

>>55830300
sorry this>>55830277 mean to be for>>55830249

>>55830033
any JetBrains IDE ever

literally a company of professional IDE developers
there are FOSS version of several of their products too

>>55830324
Intellij idea core is foss old features get open sourced as new ones come in.

>>55830033
I like Xamarin Studio better because it doesn't fuck your Windows up

>>55830271
Placebo. Resharper isn't even good, takes up 1GB of my RAM and does nothing at all.

>>55830356
how does exactly VS fucks your windows up, have not used Xamarin studio but some people claim it to be very buggy on windows but they also said that it really great on mac

>>55829893
VS is the dreamweaver of programming.

Developers use it until they know what they're doing.

>>55830368
Of course it does nothing if you don't use it.
Atleast, it's comfy when refactoring.

It even backs up your code without you having to ask and embed telemetry in all your binaries. Truly amazing.

>>55830033
Can Visual Studio duplicate a line easily yet? Like I can with Ctrl+D in IntelliJ? Last time I tried it I gave up looking for an easy way to duplicate a line (back in VS2010 I think)

>>55829893
freetards are not competing, that's the problem. they just position themselves outside the circle and say whatever they want. I never had that luxury, most of us don't: it's either Microsoft tech or Java(Oracle, IBM). Others are prominently in HW/OEM business who simply hack the same code base for decades, no innovation, main objective being to pay nothing for software.

>2016
>Not configuring Emacs
Sorry if your shitty program that you are obliged to use makes you feel so inferior that you must compare do libre software to advertise some retarderd feature that the same libre software had back in the 90's

>>55830369
Well, it takes half an hour to install
6GB of adware even though you deselect everything
1MB of junk registry entries
Modifies msbuild and your .NET runtime installation in some weird way
Uninstaller fails to remove half the stuff
MS costumer support recommend reinstalling Windows if Visual Studio doesn't install
etc...

Xamarin Studio on the other hand can run without installing it and only requires the GTK and Mono runtimes to work
It is a bit more buggy and less intuitive but once you get to know it it essentially does the same as Visual Studio

Very easily. VS isn't really that great. It's got Intellisense, but that's about it. Otherwise, it's extremely bloated, and a bit limited on top of that. For anything related to the .NET framework, you probably won't find many better tools, but that's one technology. For native development, it's got practically the worst C++ compiler, can't into proper C programming at all, and can't target any platform other than Windows.

Also, .sln files are ugly and unreadable compared to Makefiles. The build system used by VS is fucking incomprehensible.

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>>55830033
QtCreator is far better than VS for C/C++ development. It's much faster and lighter.

>>55830199
>but it features lot more than visual studio.
VS has a built-in split view for the currently opened document, IIRC netbeans doesn't, at least not by default without any plugins.

>>55830183
https://www.infoq.com/news/2016/06/visual-cpp-telemetry

>that was fake.
Source?

>10GB to the GUI alone

>>55830981
Compile and see for yourself.

>>55830927
Lighter isn't a good thing for an immense and growing language.

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>>55830948
Sure it can.
Like this ?

>>55831153
I said currently opened file, not different files, moron.

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>>55830306
>best

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Best IDE of all time coming through

>>55831294
this has better "intellisense" than VS. a better UI, more consistent, more sane layout, better debugger (yes, really) and a MUCH better, first class citizen interface builder

>>55831235
>I said currently opened file, not different files, moron.
Where ? In your dream ?

To answer your question, yes it can also do the same files on different views.
http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=519945&seqNum=32

Now let see if your VS can show 4 files simultaneously.

>>55831294
is there any dark option for it? all this white is killing my eyes

>>55831294
can write C
can write Assembly
can write C++
can write Swift
can write Objective C
can write AppleScript
out of box Kernel Extensions
out of box games
out of box plugins
out of box preference panes
out of box applications
out of box mobile applications
out of box command line applications
out of box frameworks
out of box Cocoa frameworks/libraries

>>55831348
yes, of course there is. they wouldn't leave that out

>>55831321
> the currently opened document
Are you fucking blind?
>http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=519945&seqNum=32
The split view for the current document in VS doesn't have the the tab bar for the "cloned" document. That's what I mean by the split view.
>Now let see if your VS can show 4 files simultaneously.
That was not my argument, retard. Learn to read.

>>55831355
don't forget installers, IOKit drivers, quartz composer plugins, and screen savers

lol 2016 and using an IDE


Sublime Text 3 is all you need.

>>55830033
SublimeText
Atom
Visual Studio Code

Now GTFO.

>>55831373
Right click on tab title and click split -> Horizontal or Vertical.
I'm too lazy too post screenshot.
>The split view for the current document in VS doesn't have the the tab bar for the "cloned" document. That's what I mean by the split view.
Whatever. Just redefine your own term so all people should follow it.

>>55831448
It still copies the toolbar, VS only has a drag bar with no additional widgets polluting the screen.
>Just redefine your own term
What's there to redefine? Is English not your first language Rajesh? I've clearly stated that I meant only one document, not multiple documents.

>>55831482
On Netbeans, that what split view is.
Since when there's ANSI or ISO standard for split view.
It's all your opinion, dude.

>>55831539
All I'm saying is that VS split view is much cleaner looking.

>>55831443
>70 bucks for a text editor
Top Jew.

>>55831574
no need to pay to use it.

>>55831574
>70 bucks
Holy shit!

>>55831594

It's blazing fast tho.

So well worth the money, if you're a professional working on a very large codebase.

>>55831446
Cool, you just showed that you don't know whats an IDE.

>>55830001
> bloat
yep freetards can use that arguement but adequate users can't
> used RAM is wasted RAM
lolno most freetards talk about the opposite
you should be an idiot, not autist, to talk in that way

too fat, just like all this thread

>>55831366
Except they did

How the fuck can this be 8+GB to install?
How does it use so many resources when I'm just trying to write code?
Why is there no way to use a better C/C++ compiler? Their C compiler isn't even C99 compliant.

>>55830199
eclipse is the emacs of IDEs

>>55830199
IntelliJ Idea bruh

>>55829893
Ask a computer scientist working for google if he needs Visual Studio or one of .Net API

>>55831294
It was a good IDE until Swift came along. They did some changes and now it takes more memory than Eclipse and takes two minutes to index a Hello World project and show autocomplete entries.

>>55832398
what did he say?

>>55831692
I wonder who's behind this post.

>>55832398
All right, we'll ask the Chromium team.

https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/windows_build_instructions.md

Well, seems like indeed they use it.

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>>55830033

>better then

>>55832483
>Chromium requires Visual Studio 2015 to build.
And dropped

>>55830033
Vim + gdb + gcc

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>>55832534
>vim
>gcc

>>55831561
dude you go wrecked, let it go

>>55832554
>emacs

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>>55829893
>Using an IDE that locks you to microsoft's ecosystem on desktop (on mobile and server MS is losing hard that's why they need to support them to certain extent)

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>>55832576
but i use visual studio

>>55832566
Your mom's pussy gets wrecked on the weekends and takes hundreds of loads onto her dumb bitch ass face, you cocksucking shitbag. I simply stated that the VS has a good split view for a single document I didn't state that the net beans didn't have the same functionality in some other form, but as it turns out it isn't as good as the VS one. So go nibble on some cock, you schlong swallowing cockgobbler.

I use Sublime like a normal person.

>>55831692
so is vim, and its free

>>55832605
you can call me as many names as you want but you got proved wrong and your last resort is to try to force you opinion on others. Thanks for showing how upset you can get about losing an argument on the internet, pretty sure the other guy is enjoying your tears.

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>>55832685

True, but Sublime is so much easier to use.

And did I mention, it looks beautiful.

>>55832742
Retard, I never claimed net beans didn't have the same function I said that i might not be the same as the one in visual studio and I was right, they're not the same. VS is clearer, Net beans tacks on the icon toolbar to the window, while VS only leave the horizontal drag bar. Goddamn stupid fuck.

v̶i̶s̶u̶a̶l̶ ̶s̶t̶u̶d̶i̶o̶

I love Clion.

But it only works with CMake.... :/

So it's useless when working on a Makefile based C/C++ application.

>>55832596
>microsoft's ecosystem on desktop
You mean the one with nearly 90% of marketshare, i.e. the only desktop that matters?

>>55830306
>Far better than the built-in in Emacs, by a wide margin.

>stopped C support at C99
>far better

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>>55832821
>i.e. the only desktop that matters
Microsoft could be paying you for this kind of publicity, contact them. But seriously, how does anyone except microsoft is beneffited by their monopoly? if on one side i have tools where i can easily port to multiple platforms and on the other side i have one that locks me to that vendor's platform what is the benefit of using the second? it was already proved in this thread that VS is not the only good tool out there but is severely crippled by being windows only.

>>55832786
>a1: VS is the best because it has more features
>a2: Netbeans also has that feature and even has this feature VS doesn't have
>a1: but i don't like how netbeans does that so in conclusion it doesn't counts and VS is still better

>>55832917
>port to multiple platforms
Platforms nobody cares about.
>locks me to that vendor's platform
The vastly more used platform. What a terrible lock-in to be in!

Besides that, VS is extensible and you can, for example, write Qt programs with it (http://doc.qt.io/vs-addin/). Or install Gtk# (http://www.mono-project.com/docs/gui/gtksharp/) and make C# apps that can run on Linux or Mac with Mono. And with the incoming .NET Core you can make ASP.NET sites that can be hosted on Linux. So your argument is invalid.

>>55830306
>False.
VS is pretty heavy compared to other IDEs
>Far better than the built-in in Emacs, by a wide margin.
see >>55832910
>Having the best language available is considered bad now?
C# is an excellent language and one of the most used but there's more languages out there as good at this one without the risk of microsoft having a change of heart.
>Same. You freecucks wish something like that existed on Linux. It would solve a lot of problems with the low quality GUI programs you have actually, like that joke that GTK+3 is.
You went full retard with this one dude.
>Good
anon i...

>>55833014
>VS is pretty heavy compared to other IDEs
Which ones exactly? The only one can be QtCreator. The other full featured IDEs - Eclipse, IntelliJ, NetBeans, Xcode are much more resource-heavy.

The other points are so retarded that I won't bother. I mean, if you consider GTK+3 better than WinForms there's not much to say.

>>55832957
>VS is the best
Never claimed that, so fuck right off.

>>55832979
>Platforms nobody cares about.
>The vastly more used platform. What a terrible lock-in to be in!
Please answer my question first, the only thing you're telling me is that people should not care.

>And with the incoming .NET Core you can make ASP.NET sites that can be hosted on Linux.
That's why is specifically said desktop, at this point at least a third of azure is linux, MS cannot afford to not support linux on the server side as i previously said, same for android and ios.

>Besides that, VS is extensible and you can, for example...
>So your argument is invalid.
Your argument is based on the fact that you can use non windows-only APIs on visual studio but still if you create a program with microsoft's proprietary APIs you're locked to windows on the desktop which is something you cannot negate.

>>55833042
>Which ones exactly?
Ok, lets people decide that.

>I mean, if you consider GTK+3 better than WinForms there's not much to say.
So an ad hominem based on an opinion is you best argument?

>>55831446
did you know what is a IDE at least?

>>55830239
My friend,that was a great kek

>>55833092
>the only thing you're telling me is that people should not care.
They shouldn't.

>Your argument is based on the fact that you can use non windows-only APIs on visual studio but still if you create a program with microsoft's proprietary APIs you're locked to windows on the desktop which is something you cannot negate.
You said VS locks you in, which is false. VS is an IDE, not an API. That's like saying that Emacs locks you in Linux because there's the possibility of you using Linux-kernel APIs not available elsewhere.

>>55830324

I used to like JetBrains stuff, but all their fucking stuff is SLOW as FUCK.

File: eclipse-mars.png (79KB, 600x250px) Image search: [Google]

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I do my job in Eclipse for the most part.

Mars is smooth. Really smooth. Zero issues so far.

I would sometimes have issues with Juno, Kepler, and Luna, but most of the time those problems were caused by plugins behaving strangely, and not the IDE itself.

I can't really comment on Visual Studio. The last MS IDE I used was Visual C++ 6.0 and that was something like 13 years ago. Never used Jetbrains, but I've never felt a need to, either. If I switched to IntelliJ, I would need the ultimate version, and I can't justify paying for that.

Eclipse has really increased in quality over the last year or two in particular.

>>55830239
>not directly operating current on transistors

>>55829893
>2016
>Not using notepad++ to kode
It's like you want to have a pajeet brain

>>55833553
>They shouldn't.
why? you didn't even answered my original questions.

>You said VS locks you in, which is false. VS is an IDE, not an API. That's like saying that Emacs locks you in Linux because there's the possibility of you using Linux-kernel APIs not available elsewhere.
Ok, you're right. However using microsoft's APIs still locks you to their ecosystem and those APIs is the primary focus of VS, why should someone should support those API existing multi-platform tools?

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NOBODY EVEN MENTIONS CLION

IT'S THE BEST IDE FOR C++ TODAY.

WANGBLOW PAJEETS BTFO

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>55833751
its not free :^)

>>55833751
>google
>get free 30 day trial
>ctrl + w

Linux is good just for private browsing, casual stuff.

Windows is for work or any professional endeavor.

>not going rogue and using vim and doing testing and debugging with independent and light tools

how do you fucks even run vs if you aren't in your desktops

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>tfw I just got hired for a new job and they gave me a free MBP

out of the way NEETcucks

By using literally any text editor

>>55829893
There's the community edition of Qt which can compile for Windows, Mac OS and GNU/Linux! :^)

>>55830981
>https://www.infoq.com/news/2016/06/visual-cpp-telemetry
This article explains in detail how the function call isn't actually spyware and it also mentions that it's planned to be removed on the next update because it's not used anyway.

>>55833583
or maybe it's your shit-tier computer and/or OS

>>55833751
>using a program written in java to code in C/C++

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>>55829893
>>55830033
KDevelop 5

>>55830183
>that was fake.
Nope its legit, you can disable it though

>>55833583
Increase the memory heap all the slowness will go away (Assuming your computer isnt actually a pos)

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>>55835584
>KDevelop

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>>55835828
>frogposting

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>>55832742
>>55832786

>>55833769
I’m a student in linguistics, I still got it for free, so you don’t need to fall for the CS meme

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>>55835768
?

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>>55836403
>wincucks have to optout of malware in their binaries
Literally dystopia.

>>55831574
>70 bucks is a lot of money

>>55829893

Visual Studio is the only reason I still run Windows.

It's Microsoft's only quality product, in my opinion.

Does qt creator even have a memory map? That shit is so cash.

>>55829893
Oh look. Another not good enough reason to use windows.
BOTNET
O
T
N
E
T

>>55838288
same here famalal VS is only reason i have wangblows

>>55830927
>.cpp
>.hh

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Fixed it for you, OP

>>55829893
shame it spies on you

>>55830356
Xamarin Studio? It's only good for when debugging crash logs. Also you should have said Mono IDE, which is actually XS.

>>55831294
I used to believe that, until I wanted to change the font size.

with a i3, tmux, zsh and vim combo

>>55833042
>I mean, if you consider GTK+3 better than WinForms there's not much to say.
GTK is cross-platform, can actually be themed (decently), has bindings for a ton of languages, and isn't proprietary. That already makes it better than WinForms.

>>55839721
either you start programming in VIM and hates everything else, or you use VIM only to edit texts file.

>>55839721
this but xmonad instead of tmux

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>>55832554
>LLVM/clang
>msvc

>>55839794
agreed

>>55829893
>yfw Visual Studio is released under BSD and ported to Linux and macOS

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>>55830033
>1 (one)
>1
>(one)

>>55830324
>c ide written in java

>>55829893
After 5 hours of installing and still only completing a fraction of the installation process I gave up and picked something else.

>>55830306
I want to shake your hand.

>>55829893
>compromising the integrity of your software by using an non-trusted tool to compile your code
shiggy

>>55839998
how do you know what CLion is written in?

it's proprietary

>>55832910
>stopped C support at C99
didn't stop for C++ and you can setup to use any C standard.

>>55839778
well WPF is on its way to become cross-platform (check xamarin). also has bindings for a shitload of shit, Microsoft is opening the source and can be themed.

>>55840661
>check for jvm
>find
>no need to browse code

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gnu emacs
/thread

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>>55829893
Anyone Know how to do C development inside of VS??

>>55829893
How do you think using an ide that does ALL OF THE FUCKING PROGRAMMING can compete with text editors and ides that can only be used by competent programmers?? What? Come qt me bro.

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>>55841898
Confused af are you against ides or with them?

>>55841821
i think you just need to use the .c file extension and that's it

>>55830033
eclipse

>>55841821
Just start a C++ project and write C.

>>55839668
literally press Command + + sign

>>55839988
top kek

>>55843116
that zooms the screen, doesn't change the font size

>>55835584
this

kdevelop is sexy as fuck

>>55829893
>Free edition
>Sign in with a Microsoft account
Both the paid and free versions demand the usage a Microsoft account, there is no justifiable reason for this. Beyond that it is a bloat monster.

>>55830306
Best post here. I mean come on just admit it's the best. Maybe one day there will be a open source IDE that can compare but thats not today.

>>55830239
>writing code for a compiler in the first place

just use machine code you g00k

>>55845516
Personally, I like to write all my code in 100x Earth's gravity.

ITT: Worthless NEETs writing FOSS trash

>>55840661
you can see the jvm booting up when you launch it under a linux distro. nothing else to say.

>>55840754
>wanting to be explicitly required to cast the return value of calloc/malloc
KEK.

>>55830324
>Java

>>55830306
> Winforms
Winforms works on mono.

>>55845615
This desu

>>55836490
Yeah, that's fucked. And that's why everyone should move to clang/mingw.

>>55846175
>>55845712
>>55840804
>>55839998
literally who gives a shit what it's written in, autists

it has absolutely zero relevance to how good or bad an IDE is, which is the most important thing anyway

>>55830493
>End
>Shift+Up
>CTRL+C
>CTRL+V

Make a macro for it if you need it so much

>>55846417
Stupid
Pressing ctrl-c without making a selection automatically copies the line the cursor is on
Just fucking ctrl-c ctrl-v

>>55846403
>>>55845712(You)
>literally who gives a shit what it's written in, autists
>
>it has absolutely zero relevance to how good or bad an IDE is, which is the most important thing anyway

Anon wanted to know how we can know JetBrain’s IDEs are written in Java, I told him how.
But I agree it doesn’t matter.

>>55846403
It has 100% relevance.
I love PHPStorm, but it halves my battery life on my laptop and is very slow. Maybe there are ways to minimize that, but it's never going to compete with other more efficient languages.

Just look at Java Minecraft vs c++ Miencraft
Sublime text vs Atom

>>55846489
has nothing to do with the language and everything to do with how the program in question was written

blaming programmer incompetence on the language is absolutely retarded

>>55846505
Sure you can make a huge difference if your a competent programmer, but you should still choose the right language for the job.

Java is never going to be as fast as c++. Interpreted languages are never going to be as fast as precompiled programs.

>>55846557
>Java
>Interpreted
what the fuck

>>55830927
Qt is so nice for cross-platform development, it's only a couple of clicks to use a buildchain created with buildroot.

>>55846557
""Interpreted"" languages that go through bytecode can be as fast if not faster, it's all about the powerlevel of autism of the dev(s) of the compiler/interpreter.
Take LuaJIT as an example. That shit is so fucking fast and very often it beats c++ and even c. Is it because Lua is faster by design? Absolutely not, but Mike Pall is a fucking genius.

>>55846727
>very often it beats c++ and even c
so deluded

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Let see how many IDE can do this.

>>55847688
I see nothing valuable.

>>55848254
Filter & map for lambda expression automatically converted to sql query.
It also test the query validity.

>>55848306
To be exact, that's not SQL but CQL (Cassandra Query Language)

>>55848306
Not valuable.

>>55847688
L I N Q
I
N
Q

>>55846583
It runs in a VM, which is basically the same thing.

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>>55830199
>Eclipse

>>55851701
Technically no

Java code itself isn't interpreted

The bytecode that gets generated can be interpreted

But java itself isn't

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>>55829893
how is it feels being so dependent on microsoft's tools if they go bankrupt you go down the drain too?
>b-but it will n-never happen.
as of what shit happening in the world right now i wouldnt be so confident.

15GB text editor. I could just use a byte adder I guess.

>>55830252
/thread

>>55851875
Right but the main implementation of Java is one that's compiled to bytecode which is then interpreted by a VM. Sure, there's nothing to say you can't compile Java to native machine code, but in practice, when someone talks about Java, they mean Java being executed by the JVM, unless they specify otherwise.