GUI was a mistake

>>55695650
Agreed. Terminal for life.

Yeah that's probably true, though it was inevitable.

>autism

>>55695663
GUI-babby detected

>>55695658
CLI for life

>>55695702
Terminal sounds cooler.

They're both useful, but it wasn't GUI that introduced many idiots.

>>55695745
>but it wasn't GUI that introduced many idiots.
then what did

>>55695745
The GUI made computers more accessible to clueless idiots.

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>>55695759
Mobile.

You do realize computers don't exist to serve the autistic brotherhood of cs majors?
They are a tool for the economy and efficiency demands that they be managed in such a way that no special education is required to perform the most basic of tasks on then.
Grow the fuck up.

>>55695733
Terminal is a remote display, though.
That's why it's actually called "Terminal Emulation".

>>55695650

GUI poured loads of money into the field and allowed tech to flourish. You think that the effects of mobile splitting the market was bad? Try a market where tech never progressed past a point where only the most specialized of offices and most nerdy of homes have a computer.

Moore's law wouldn't have lasted into the 2000s without GUIs. Say thank you to those technologically retarded idiots and the people who were smart enough to know how to get their business.

>>55695650
the microsoft GUI was a mistake

>>55696185
Fuck off, you stupid fucking piece of shit.

If GUIs never happened, we probably would have command line interfaces so evolved you could just give them commands in plain English so morons can use it.

>>55695650
>tfw Photoshop would still rock your ImageMagik

:^<

>>55696354
Mad code monkey

How the fuck would you do 3D modeling or video editing without a GUI?

Literally 99% of technology is made possible because of the consumption of technology by the general population and the money they spend.

How would we multitask without GUI?

>>55696422
povray, ffmpeg

>>55695650
And yet you are here, complaining about it on an imageboard website, designed mostly for discussing visual entertainment.

>>55696431
have you never used a unix in your life?

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>>55696431
>How would we multitask without GUI?
This is entirely possible, yo.

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>be 1337 skriptkiddie
>browse /g/
>think you're hot shit because you just learned to open and close the CD hatch from CMD
>"GUI opened the floodgates to morons"

Meanwhile people who are actually smart and don't have time for your silly computer hobby because they're doing physics research, can now build and run models themselves in mathematica because of how accessible it is.

>>55695650

A complaint like this from someone enjoying a modern computer is just as hypocritical as any complaint made on the internet from a luddite.

Anyone using a computer today is benefiting from retard money, and nobody more so than the tech literate. Between research and new fab lines, the march of tech has required a ridiculous amount of money. You know all of that expensive hardware that you lovingly dust off and admire all the time? If you hate the influence of retards, then throw that in the garbage and go dig up whatever you were using in the mid-90s, because that's your mid-2010s computer without the massive market growth that we've had over the past 30 years. All of your favorite modern software would be annihilated by the limitations of mid-90s tech, too.

It shows a complete lack of awareness to claim that opening the floodgates for the tech illiterate was a bad thing.

>>55696582

This. Accessible computers are extremely beneficial to everybody's everyday lives, and the money that comes from everybody accessing computers is beneficial to people who fully appreciate tech.

There's really only one group of people that I feel has any obligation to concern themselves with learning the ins and outs of the command line, how to code, or anything else along those lines, and that's people in the tech industry or those who want to be taken seriously as tech hobbyists.

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>>55696422

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>>55696995
I should've stopped reading at 'bloat' but curiosity got the best of me.

>>55695688
still autistic

>>55695650
edgy

>>55696429
Nasa and military

>>55697749
NASA and the military don't make things cheap, they do the exact opposite. Cheap is the key to technological success.

>>55695733
Terminal is the first half of terminal cancer.

>>55697769
You wouldnt have 99% of technology because outside of military nobody can afford high R&D costs.

>>55695702
>>55695658
you're both wrong
emacs for life

>>55696995
hahahahahha oh wow - no way this is real. oh wow!

>>55696185
But they really don't. They think computers are some kind of complicated toys, made for their secret club.

>>55697814
Well, that's not actually true at all.

The automatic transmission, cruise control, air conditioning, and fuel efficiency ruined automobiles.

>>55697769

I'm not disagreeing with the premise that we'd be in the computer stone ages if not for the market spreading far beyond a small niche and flooding the industry with the money needed to keep this very expensive train barreling ahead, and you might not disagree with what I'm about to say, but cheap is something that comes later. Expensive as fuck cutting edge technology is necessary in order to bring that technology to the masses once you've had a chance to work out the quirks and figure out how to mass produce it. Most big technology doesn't go straight from the prototypes to grandma's living room. They're around for a good decade in some form or another before they finally becomes cheap and stable enough to become viable for the average Joe. Possibly longer.

>>55696582
But then again, if they're actually worthwhile physicists they could spent a couple months of their career learning the proper tools, actually understand what they're doing, and save up so much time through superior efficiency that they can do twice the research as they would do now.

GUI is alright.

>>55697936
And then there's things like Microsoft Windows, one of the most expensive and most used pieces of software.

Windows is giant mess.
Windows' creation cost an incredible amount of money.
Windows contributes absolutely nothing to the advancement of technology. One of the reasons is that it's proprietary.
OS technology would arguably be ahead of what it is now if Windows was not a thing. Because people and money would go to another OS, and if it weren't Windows it would be something better, and if it weren't Windows it would be something that contributed more to the advancement of technology.

Actually I'd agree on your analogy on all fields but computer science.

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ITT: Butt-blasted autists can't grasp that computers would be almost completley useless if it wasn't for the GUI. Imagine trying to make financial graphs on a terminal, there goes the entire financial sector for computers. Imagine trying to aim an artillery gun with a terminal, there goes the entire military sector. Autists cant understand that the only use for computers is making other sectors easier, this doesn't apply when you have to go to fucking college to be able to use them.
>inb4 durr wot about encryption
Have fun writing an encryption algorithm without any form of degree in mathematics.

GUIs are actually nice. Too bad it's ruined by design-first hipsters.

>>55697896
Tell me one company that spends as much R&D bugdet as the military and actually uses the money on research instead of just taking what they did before and revise it.

>>55697967

Would it really speed them up that much, though?

I can't speak for Mathematica, but the majority of jobs don't have you spending huge amounts of time clicking around convoluted menus and jumping around countless heaps of programs. Those that do are usually tech jobs, and those are the people who would learn the command line as a part of their work training.

If your job consists of writing reports in Microsoft Word, knowing how to use the command line might literally save you no time at all.

>>55697967
>physicists should've stopped wasting time solving mathematic proofs in the 20th century and spent more time developing non-technological research advancements that would have ended up hindering progress and forced them to revert their thinking back anyways

>>55698200
It would probably speed them up, yes. Because their work gets slowed down as long as they don't understand their specific program, and once they do they'll encounter the limits. Engineering degrees from Matlab to Python for this reason.

>>55698234
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Shifting from a specific GUI program to a programming language on a proper setup is like shifting from a typewriter to your computer text editor.

>>55698126
>aim an artillery gun with a terminal
./artillery_fire.sh -x 55.756814 -y 37.567934 -auto --force

>>55698174
Companies matching the budget of one of the largest employers in the world <> companies affording high R&D costs.

>>55695650
GUI gave to morons like OP something to complain about.

>>55695688
>babby
baby

It would seem that using a GUI has reduced your ability to spell common words.

I agree with you but not because I have some autistic urge to prevent regular people from using my tools, rather because something like this would've happened >>55696367

GUI is one of the things that got invented way too early and evolved inefficiently because of that. Because if it was delayed up to around the 90s, we would have very receptive PCs to plain English commands (up to the possibility of modern neural networks being invented and deployed during those times specifically to aid that function).

The GUI was inevitable, but the too early inception of it was basically equal to a kid being directly born into wealth - he ends up wealthy, sure, but doesn't go through the painful process of "alright, how the fuck do I dig myself out of this misery" that normal people go through, and therefor learn skills that they wouldn't otherwise. Why would he bother? He already has the money.
It's the same with PCs - quite a lot of people and entire industries would've been FORCED to find efficient ways for PC->HUMAN->PC communication, and considering GUI didn't exist, they would've done so in a different way, and in the end, GUI would've been invented anyway.

The only difference of that timeline and ours would've been that both of them have basically equal levels of GUI, except one has an incredibly developed AI text/speech capabilities.

>>55698387
They need to do way instain mother

>>55698387
It's a meme, you dip.

>>55698475
I don't agree with you: think only how would smartphones work without GUI (badly)
also think how would image editing would work without being able to see the image in real time
GUI was inevitable, and pretty useful

>>55698305
I can see that actually working and being used

>>55695650
without those morons you'd never have more than one core or 3d accelerator in consumer market

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>>55695650

>>55698519
>being memeing cancer

>>55695650
>being a luddite caveman

Wow more ass hurt eternal September style jackoffs....grow the fuck up.

>>55698475
If you utilize Linux, you can just do a minimal install and code your own GUI, fucking make it as "perfect" as you want dipship

>>55695777
Nice trips.

And it's true. Ruby also introduced a lot of cancer. Seriously, that whole "community" is tech-cancer.

>>55698675
>muh smartphone
Fucking millennial >:^[

Most people defending GUI doesn't even know what GUI actually mean....
GUI on software like autoCAD is something like this for drawing a line click on Draw menu select line then select the starting point and end point.
or just typing l pos1 pos2.
Show some chart or drawing on screen isn't gui but selecting and clicking a bunch of menus and buttons is.
>Finance:
type sell A; or buy B
>Military
nuke [insert_location]
and so on.
>WORD && EXCEL
most people work on pre made shit... just ask for input.

>>55695650
>it's another 'we should make software worse to keep the normies out' episode

>>55695650
>>55695759
>>55695763
Go pick up an old DOS shitbox sometimes, maybe you'll finally realize that clueless retards were using computers long before Windows, it doesn't take a genius to remember the two or three commands it takes to run Lotus 1-2-3.

>>55697967
>and save up so much time through superior efficiency that they can do twice the research as they would do now.
You sound like one of those "I fucking love science" types who think all of our scientific woes would be solved if we just mindlessly threw money at it. It doesn't work that way, nowadays you're inhibited far more by your own thought process and the natural tedium of modern science than whether or not your tools are inconvenient (thus "proper") enough to gain the respect of some half-assed undergrad on an imageboard.

>>55696367
Yeah no.
Getting computers to understand plain English is one of the biggest hurdles out there, even today.
The English language is difficult even for human beings, it breaks it's own rules constantly and like any other language designed to be spoken aloud is filled with double meanings and nuance that can't be conveyed in text.
Human language relies on intuition and feelings. Machines rely entirely on logic. That's why we invented languages to go between ours and theirs.

>>55701680
>inconvenient (thus "proper")
Apparently you're completely missing the point, let me explain:

>GUI program
-immediately start using it
-convoluted
-slow
-undefined behavior
-remember a set of dialogue boxes to click
-no idea how it works, but there's numbers rolling out
-changing the working to your liking is obscure or impossible
-automating is not really a thing or incomplete

>CLI program
-learning curve of some hours of reading documentation and experimenting
-surprisingly simple
-fast
-know what the program does, know how to operate it
-answer rolls out exactly how you want, changing anything is trivial
-automating is trivial

There's scientists that never learn how their tools work and they waste a lot of time in the long run on meta issues because they don't want to invest some time at the start of their career.

>>55702063
you've just described a bad gui program and a good cli program

>good gui
immediately start using it
well organized
minimal bloat
documented
logical menus/dialogues
well labeled
all options settable

>bad cli
no documentation/infinite documentation
2 options/extremely complex and impossible to understand options
verbose just spits out random errors

>>55702063
This entire post is on par with those shitty GPU thread graphs where they compare a GTX 760 and a rx480 then go "LOL! NVIDEO BTFOXD!!". Please delete this as fast as possible.

>>55695650
Admit it to yourself faggot.
You were a mistake.

>>55702327
I'm a mistake

>>55702151
For media editing this may be the case, but for exact sciences and data crunching GUIs are just designed for ease of use where CLIs / program languages are designed for power users.

Also, name 1 (*ONE*) CLI program that has no documentation.

>>55702305
Because it's a comparison too?
wew

>>55702460
I'm actually having a hard time deciding if i even need to respond to this or not it is that stupid.
>look at bad thing from group x
>now look at good thing from group y
>group y is now proven correct group
This is the most stale and shitty argument i have ever seen in my entire life. Surely everyone who makes this argument must know it's shit right? Does the word anectdol mean nothing here?

GUI is fine.
the problem is when its like windows where everything is GUI,
and its command line, scripting and automation is completely crippled.

having most things based on a CLI is much better.
and if you want a GUI for casual users its quite easy to make a GUI wrapper program for it.

>>55702842
I pointed out the general differences between GUIs and CLIs in the context of exact sciences. GUIs are easier to use, I named that, and better with graphics, but that's not really relevant here.

You can see every point as separate argument, I can elaborate on all of them. In the meanwhile you're just nagging about my argument structure without bringing up anything substantial.

You're the shithead.

>>55695777
what anime is this?

>>55703028
http://gelbooru.com/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=3014582
lrn2reverseimage

>>55703071
I did this but I don't know where is the name of it.

>>55703089
dagashi kashi
it is a tag

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>>55695650
Lets go back to mechanical computers then. microchips was a mistake.

>>55695777
For me it was OSX and fucking python. Those pseudo-tech numales destroyed the beauty of the machines.

>>55702063

I feel bad for you, this post just made it incredibly clear that you have no idea what you're talking about and have never used the tools you're talking shit about. Please jump off the nearest bridge.

>>55695650
if computers didnt had GUI i wouldnt use computers at all

>>55703691
Actually I have a lot of experience. People call me a pro hacker, what is your substance?

>>55695650
opening the floodgates to morons largely improved quality of life for everyone

>>55703946
Except for developers who need to make software retard-compatible.

>>55695650
AUTISM
U
T
I
S
M

>>55697821
Using emacs as a terminal emulator for life.

>>55702063
You sound like one of those Wintards that installs arch because of the memes and to "flee the botnet" and then are surprised when everything is broken.

>>55702420
>GUIs are just designed for ease of use
"just"
This is the fundamental problem here, you act like this is some trivial bullshit and "le real scientists" wouldn't use these tools, because convenience is stupid, right?

It was surely viable and preferable to bust out a Fortran compiler for every little thing in the '60s and '70s when computing power was extremely limited and every little optimization made a huge difference. But now? When I want to make a simple graph or mathematical model, I can do it in minutes with Mathematica, Matlab, Sage or whatever the fuck, writing it out the same way I just did it on the whiteboard, no worrying about debugging, dependencies, spending more time on tedious bullshit that's already implemented in a tool that will do it just as quickly 99% of the time. Convenience saves more time and money than spending thousands of dollars and wasting valuable time training every researcher to complicate their work for some trivial "efficiency" bonus that will ultimately amount to nothing.

>>55704511
>because convenience is stupid, right?
where did he imply that

>>55704511
>You sound like one of those Wintards
Naturally, I use Gentoo.

>and "le real scientists" wouldn't use these tools, because convenience is stupid, right
They do, but they'd be more effective scientists if they'd spend the time to learn proper tools. Short term convenience is long term pain here.

>when computing power was extremely limited and every little optimization made a huge difference
Performance isn't so much of a factor in use anymore, but when doing heavy computations, or on large data sets, there's a HUGE difference between the performance of, say, Matlab and Python. I've seen 6 hours vs 5 minutes to compute the same thing.

>I can do it in minutes with Mathematica, Matlab, Sage or whatever the fuck
And probably faster when you have a half decent toolchain.

GUIs are nice if you want do something once with a few simple clicks, but if you're going to use some tool for the rest of your career you save a lot of time by dropping the convoluted GUIs and learning to use the more flexible and eventually quicker CLI tools.

>>55698387
Get the fuck out.

>>55704973
>They do, but they'd be more effective scientists if they'd spend the time to learn proper tools.
How much more "effective"? Shaving a minute or two off of a ten-minute task after months of expensive courses? The tedious processes of typical scientific research are hardly being hampered by the extra half of a second it takes to click a button in a GUI application, where most of them have these magical things called hotkeys anyway that save even more time.

>Performance isn't so much of a factor in use anymore, but when doing heavy computations, or on large data sets, there's a HUGE difference between the performance of, say, Matlab and Python. I've seen 6 hours vs 5 minutes to compute the same thing.
I was never talking about these kinds of problems, I'm talking about simple calculations, one-off graphs, small dataset problems, things that don't really justify re-inventing the wheel to perform when graphical applications do it just as well.

>And probably faster when you have a half decent toolchain.
But absolutely pointless when it's already fast enough with the allegedly "improper" (and more portable, painless) tools you already have.

Why do everything from terminal? What's the benefit?

>>55706042
Command-line interfaces are great for jobs you can automate, even other tasks if you're a good typist that can outrun menus and cursors. GUIs are convenient and more effective at presenting many interfaces and data, they give you a better overview of what your application can actually do without having to dive into documentation.

Basically, they're both good, any person who skews towards one or the other for everything is retarded.

>>55696367

Human language is a nightmare for computers.

Computers are dumb little devices that can't understand anything that isn't explicitly spelled out for them. Human language inherently relies on abstraction, context, and individual understandings of what certain words and phrases mean to get many of its points across. In order to reach a point where computers can understand human language seamlessly, you would need to design a computer that could think like a human.

And you're wrong if you don't believe that there are parties out there who are trying. Ever heard of machine translation? Ever made a phone call and been prompted for a request to say something? Those services both suck, but that's due to the sheer scale of the task.

>>55704973
> if you're going to use some tool for the rest of your career

This never happens even if you're a fucking janitor. And it ESPECIALLY does not happen in science with its enormous range of problems and tools to solve them.
If it's the result that matters, a scientist or engineer worth their salt will evaluate the time to learn a special-purpose piece of software or build a custom toolchain versus the savings it gives over a less efficient but familiar and simpler to use setup.

>>55706297
Not to mention that there are types of information that human language is ultra slow at describing, or cannot describe at all.

>>55706314
>>55705990
>after months of expensive courses?
>familiar and simpler to use setup.

i doubt hes implying that they should just drop everything they have already built up to create better tools.

>>55706042
Basically, CLI is like walking and GUI is like transportation.
If you refuse to use cars, trains and delivery trucks and insist on walking everywhere, either you're an old mountain hermit or you're making your life suck for little benefit. However, if the thought of walking down two blocks to the supermarket gives you panic attacks, you're not any better off.

>>55704973
>but if you're going to use some tool for the rest of your career you save a lot of time by dropping the convoluted GUIs and learning to use the more flexible and eventually quicker CLI tools.
But you're not. That's the problem.

What happens when you accept a job at another lab? Do you really think the IT bureaucracy is going to bend over backwards accommodate your own untested toolchain and libraries on their production systems?

>>55706452
It's exactly what he's implying. GUI tools are "improper" because a CLI alternative might exist that saves you a couple seconds after you've wasted several weeks getting used to it.

>>55706452
No, I think he's implying that a) people should always learn the best tools for any job and b) those tools are always CLI.

>they'd be more effective scientists if they'd spend the time to learn proper tools
>dropping the convoluted GUIs and learning to use the more flexible and eventually quicker CLI tools

>>55706042
its a little bit harder to learn at first,
but once you know what cd and ls are and the names of the programs you use its just as easy as any other alterative.

and most important, you can continue to get better at using it,
unlike a gui where at best you learn a few ctrl-key combinations so you dont need to use the right click menu.

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Holy fucking shit I needed a good meme today. I'm falling for the bait.

It's preference. You can find enough time to avoid a GUI at nearly all times, but somehow can't manage to take a second and understand that. You feel inadequate so you try to create this hipster circle-jerk to make your lifestyle appear quirky. But you're the only one who cares.

Christ, I bet you man children think anything is better if it means fewer people use it.

Pic related. You would live in it if everyone had "normie" homes, even at the cost of your own comfort.

Love you /g/aylords

>>55706717
>but once you know what cd and ls are and the names of the programs you use its just as easy as any other alterative.
not really, file system navigation and running programs is just one minor facet of modern computing

>and most important, you can continue to get better at using it
why do people treat this like it's something significant, a computer is a tool, what matters is that it makes your life better, not that you know every obscure edge case facet of its usage

command lines don't even make you better at using a computer, they're just a different way of tackling a problem, you're not a computer genius because you can cd into a directory and type the name of an application, or because you threw together a shitty script to feed a bunch of frequently used arguments into a program

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>>55706717
>but once you know what cd and ls are and the names of the programs you use its just as easy as any other alterative.

Jesus Christ, I thought you were talking about serious CLI usage. Shouldn't you be doing your summer assignments?

>>55695650
your life was a mistake

>>55706968
>talking about serious CLI usage.
i was only talking about basic beginner usage.

ITT- a bunch of autistic codemonkeys complain about the best thing to happen to the consumer computer market

>>55706772
>You can find enough time to avoid a GUI at nearly all times
I think all CLI drawing software was BTFO by Ivan Sutherland over fifty years ago. And while doing media editing (photo, audio, video) with CLI is technically possible, it's unadulterated masochism.

>>55707062
Oh by the way, did you make this post using CLI?

> ruined tech fields permanently.

How did these morons stop you from using CLI?

In wait way is this not a bait post?

>>55707194
Obviously, if GUI never existed, there would be a much wider choice of higher quality CLI software.

>tfw there's not a single one native x86_64 command line pcb routing toolchain

>>55698305
kek

>>55695650
lmfao

>>55696431
A feature like virtual desktops or unix ttyN would be used.