Web Designer Hate thread

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Also pls no bully on webdevs pls. Im not autistic and can sell people shit so I feel im about to be making some fucking bank. I know what im doing is gay.

The market for freelance webdev is extremely saturated and you will get your fair share of clients who will outright refuse to pay you.

And they know you won't pursue legal action because lost wages and legal fees would quickly cost more than what they owed you.

You should know what you're getting into.

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>>55086117
>not having your client's sign a contract
My dad's a lawyer and has given my Aunt free help when it happened to her, which was only twice in the last 5 years shes been doing this shit

>>55086210
This was assuming that you even wrote a contract.
Enforcing it will cost more than whatever they were going to pay you.

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>>55086162
>>55086210
To add on to this
>Contract states I own the domain with all the content on it, transfer domain ownership at time of payment
>Build site, put it up on the web
>put up the website
>Client fucks me
>Put gay porn with full SEO plastered all over clients name
>everyone who googles anything related to the client will think he's a full on degenerate wierdo
>Client gets assblasted to high heaven

Would be worth it, would have to ask my dad about the legality of that however but if I own the content and domain I dont see why not.

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>>55086238
>not having dad lawyer who will enforce the contracts for free, just out of love.

Im good to go anon

>>55086281
Enjoy getting sued.
The defamation lawsuit will be much more expensive for you than a petty breach of contract lawsuit.

>>55086381
Also to add to this, they'd be stupid to NOT sue you because you're got daddy's money to protect you from fiscal responsibility.

>>55086381
>not asking dad to do this beforehand
>being 19
>having access to my dads money
lol. If a website gets "hacked" and the hackers put up a gay porno on my site, and I cant get it off because I cant pay my internet bill, theres nothing I can do. The hackers would just put the gay porn up by itself along with original content cuz SEO with no mention of itself or statements defaming the client.

>>55086460
I don't understand what you're saying, but you should also note that you will never be able to find work as a freelance webdev ever again because you act like an immature stupid kid.

>>55086162
Freelance/contract work in general is unstable as hell. Finding your next client is always stressful. Best to do it for extra cash in addition to a normal job, if you can, rather than instead of one.

>>55087703
>Best to do it for extra cash in addition to a normal job, if you can, rather than instead of one.

Not OP but this is what I have in mind. I know HTML, CSS, a bit of PHP and SQL and I am currently learning Javascript. What site would be optimal for this kind of work? Freelancer? Elance?

Also, do you know what is the standard rate for a "pretty" static website without deeper functionality (PHP and SQL because I am still getting the hang of that)?

>>55086162
this.
freelancing is really bad on your own.
get someone who headhunts clients for you they get a cut but money will come in.
or you can do what i did.
find a company that wants a permanent spot for someone to maintain their website or work on web interfaces for their solutions.
the money is not as good as freelance money but you will have a steady paycheck and job security.
in my case i started working for a small company that did software for banks in java with jsf.
i initially only worked on their website but after some time of growing and learning more shit i started working with the engineers. they do the back-end and apis and id work on frontend stuff.

>>55087820
Seconding

>>55087820
> What site would be optimal for this kind of work? Freelancer? Elance?

I used to make quite a good living freelancing on those sites a few years back (doing non-web-related programming, though). Now, however, they're so oversaturated by poo2loos spoiling rates, I wouldn't be able to earn even 20% of what I did back then (and I'm a guy with high ratings/reputation; newbies are totally fucked).

What it looks like nowadays on these sites is something like this:
> Employer: I'm looking for atomic reactor software to be written. My budget is $100 but I'll give you a 5 star rating. No time wasters. Oh, BTW, I also need a jet fighter software. Should be an easy job. Also, I'm a dick.
> Indians: 150 bids within 5 minutes, worth $40 on average. Half of them are Indians subcontracting to other Indians. The winning bidder is Rajeesh who offers to do the job for $30 in PHP.

Freelancing sites are cancer.

Designing web as a freelancer is different to designing for a company you actively work for, you want systems that are content managed (see: money printer for enterprise customers), that are fully compliant with standards and take as little effort as possible to implement and maintain.

CMS makes it extremely easy to set up a very comprehensive site in the shortest possible timeframe, which makes sense from the perspective of a freelancer. The really good web designers know how to code properly and can wireframe, prototype and develop for production, but fully acknowledge that doing it the hard/long way sometimes isn't the best way if you're limited by time or compliance.

Source: I'm a designer/dev

I feel you OP. I recently made a WP site for a midwife training program. Made a few a K and all I had to do was understand webhosting and basic HTML/CSS. This is a broken system. I have no idea how to fix this shit.

>>55089265
That sucks if you are really making a living from freelancing I guess. Then again, I only intend to do this on the side to earn some extra and since I am eastern yuropoor I think I can at least partially compete with Rajeesh regarding undercutting.

>>55089313
That's good to know. I guess it really helps with minimizing the time spent so you can do more jobs and maximize gains. Time to get a hang of WP then.

Also, what are your experiences with clients? Get scammed/denied the payment a lot? Any guidelines?

>>55089413
>Best to do it for extra cash in addition to a normal job, if you can, rather than instead of one.

I guess that's the source of all the hate for webdevs on /g/.

>>55089629
>Best to do it for extra cash in addition to a normal job, if you can, rather than instead of one.

Wrong quote in response to >>55089413
, 4chan being retarded for some reason. I meant
>Made a few a K and all I had to do was understand webhosting and basic HTML/CSS. This is a broken system. I have no idea how to fix this shit.

Its pretty damn simple anon. "People are stupid." They will pay 3k for a shit web page because they think its black magic.

The same as you would pay your car mechanic 1k for something that will take him an hour to do and so on and so on.

damn OP, I did the wordpress for my boss and I'm not even a web designer.

>>55089629
Freelance customers are a pain in the arse, it's as simple as that. Often it feels like they don't value your time or the work you do and can either refuse to pay you or string you along for what they can get. It's absolutely fine to "sack" clients if they're wasting your time, graphic design is very important to business and if they don't understand this their business will fail or continue to do shit due to stubbornness.

If you've had experience with .NET Umbraco is a great place to start, it's not specifically Wordpress that is popular it's content management systems in general, when you move onto other clients the last thing you want is someone calling you up and demanding maintenance or design updates, CMS is great for doing something and then forgetting about it entirely.

Be up front with your customers, let them know how you plan to invoice them and keep track of invoices well, their are even apps and web services which handle invoicing for you if it's a major pain point (it is sometimes).

>>55086117
Op is an underage and b& faggot.

>>55086162
fair warning, once I made a site for a customer extremely cheap, and he refused to pay the agreed fee (85%). Said he had to pay 15% for a guy to create a fucking logo, which is like a 5 minute doodle. I spent weeks on the actual site, and he was paying months later. I still have root to the server and sometimes contemplating deleting all the shit and overwriting all the backups

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>made 4k fixing a JS planningboard made by an intern
>i only edited the links on the program to include a bunch of GET's
I'm a sysadmin at that company

>studying Graphic Design
>Decided to specialize in web design and front end development
>Currently on break reading books about UX design and javascript/jquery
>Set to graduate in December
I-is the real world really this bad anons?

>>55093317

From what I gathered from this thread there are two type of developers and clients.

First there are developers who learn the least amount of code possible and "try to make money on the side". Fruitlessly they compete with Indians on freelancing sites. Clients they have are of the same caliber, they often lowball hard, or at the opposite give you 2k for setting up a wordpress site. These are of course the extremes, but something along these lines.

Then are the people who actually consider this their career and study/work day in day out. Managing complex sites, often onsite in company's offices and pull south of 100k a year. The outsourcing has hit heavy here also I imagine, but good developers are still in need. It's just a magnitude tougher business these days.

At least this is how it seems for an attentive observer. Am I reading into this somewhat correctly?

Just check out some freelance sites like /r/freelance or upwork, its filled with circlejerk shills that take advantage of people that aren't into tech then they steal (with view-source) some bootstrap/wordpress design and charge $5k+ for it