/wdg/ - Web Development General

First for procedural PHP is best PHP.

>>52681490
gr8 b8 m8

>>52681504
Debate me.

Nothing you can do that I can't do with functions.

>>52681545
Create an MVC from scratch

>>52681545
>Nothing you can do that I can't do with functions.
Nothing you can't do that I can't do with raw machine code, that doesn't make it a good idea.

And I'm a big fan of FP, but when you're working in PHP OOP is what you've got, FP support is poor without really bending over backwards. Yes you can do it but it doesn't really make sense.

And besides, this was in the context of namespaces, which are _still_ a good feature even if you never write a single class.

>>52681554
That's disgusting. Are you trying to hog server resources? Literally worse than hogging client resources with bloated js frameworks.

>>52681625
>not knowing how to set up a minimum MVC structure with autoload
>calling it a server hogger
You invalidated yourself already, anon.

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>mfw these threads have given me reason to believe i'll finally find a fucking job and it would be something that i love doing

>>52681658
You're trying to tell me that frameworks use less space and resources compared to procedural PHP?

You're funny, invalidated anon.

>>52681762
The money is good and you actually create stuff. You can even make 35 an hour working on a WordPress farm.

Have fun. The best jobs are on Indeed. Ignore Craigslist.

should I be using javascript?

I've heard it's being phased out, but in favor of what?

>>52681762
Stop encouraging nigger behaviour.

>>52682295
>should I be using javascript?
If you need to do anything client side then yes, it or something that compiles to it are your only real choices.

>I've heard it's being phased out, but in favor of what?
It's not being phased out, there was an effort to replace it with Dart which pretty much everyone considers to have squarely failed at this point.

>>52681256
Well it's more I'm designing it now and that is what the client is looking for. It is just a list but it has to fit into the bootstrap html accordion structure. I'm not really concerned about rendering the html after the list is parsed. I'm just not sure the best way to store the data so that I can query it as a string and parse it. I explained to him that the best approach would be to store each part in the list as it's own table entry and then map those entries to the parts that they are associated with, but he said he would rather copy and paste then enter each part in the list. I could theoretically parse the string that I get from the textarea and then put each part into a table, but it would take a lot of time to set up, and I don't know how I would update the parts listings if changes needed to be made. Storing the info as an array seems like a good approach, but since the "array" would just be a string anyway until I parsed it, I figured why not make the string easier to parse than a string that is written like an array. That approach still seems weird to me though.

>>52682392
awesome, javascript it is, then.

Thankfully it sounds easy

>>52682450
Store it as it is and figure it out during runtime.

What they should be doing is hiring a data entry person to place the info into the db properly.

>>52682667
if I am storing it as a string, my question is if I should store it like this

{{Header 1
{Subheader
part name
part name
part name
{Subheader
part name
part name
{{Header 2
part name
part name

or this

array(
'Header 1' => array(
    'Subheader1' => array(
        'part name','part name','part name'
    ),
    'Subheader2' => array(
        'part name','part name','part name'
    ),
'Header 2' => array(
    'Subheader1' => array(
        'part name','part name','part name'
    ),
    'Subheader2' => array(
        'part name','part name','part name'
    ),
);

First for Django.

What are my Django bros up to?

>>52682795
Definitely the first one.

>>52682856
>2016
>not node

>>52682795
Is that first code block php literal syntax for something or are you proposing storing your data like a string in that format?

>>52682856
waist deep in spaghetti code I wrote years ago. Views file is one monolithic monstrosity several thousands of lines long. This is my own fault though, wrote it years ago, now I'm saddled with maintaining it.

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>>52682902
>using node for anything but small scale one page applications

>>52682907
>waist deep in spaghetti code I wrote years ago. Views file is one monolithic monstrosity several thousands of lines long. This is my own fault though, wrote it years ago, now I'm saddled with maintaining it.

Got some source code I can work on?

>>52682925
Simple efficiency, my nigero

>>52682925
The good async actually makes it a reasonable choice for any site with a high level of concurrent traffic and which spends most of its time waiting on the DB (read: most websites with heavy traffic in 2016).

Daily reminder that web development is not real programming.

>>52682980
I can do that with django as well: https://django-websocket-redis.readthedocs.org/en/latest/

>>52682987
Daily reminder that fizzbuzz isn't programming.

>>52682947
>Got some source code I can work on?
I'm under an NDA so I can't, as much as I'd like to outsource

>>52682997
lol, I was a contrib on the project that preceded this one. There are a number of problems with frankenstiening django into an async framework. The most pressing is it's easy to subtly invoke something synchronous and end up absolutely crucifying your perf (you lock you singular server thread until the call returns). It doesn't help that Python's C interop means monkeypatching ala gevent will silently fail to patch libs that are totally opaque to you. Mind you, the same thing can happen with node but it's not as common and node has been dealing seriously with the issues async execution poses for stack traces/debugging for a lot longer and has better tooling around it.

Also uWSGI's websockets performance has been pretty poor relative to gunicorn (or pretty much anything) for years.

>>52683004
This. It's math.

Who the fuck uses modulus in programming?

>>52683099
It is very useful in parsers, when you need to execute something on every second occurrence.

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does anyone use spring + java to do web dev here? how do you like it? any cool resources?

>>52683086
>I'm under an NDA so I can't, as much as I'd like to outsource
Bummer.

As for the other stuff. That's all true. I just don' think Node will actually be usable in a serous environment until it coalesces a bit. The node ecosystem is so fractured at this point it's ridiculous.

>>52682907
Storing my data like a string in that format and then exploding it off of the line breaks and parsing it into a bootstrap html accordion structure.

>>52683175
>java
Wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. There is absolutely nothing it has to offer that modern languages don't do better.

Okay, what technology should I use to make a simple web app?
No memeing, manageable setup only.

>>52683279
Depends on scale and what is the client.

>>52683175
I do at my dayjob. Frankly I hate it, but I've had a grudge against java for a long time. It would help if I used STS or something to get the static analysis everyone always talks about but I do like an 80/20 front/backend work so I've never felt the motivation to wait out the 30~60 seconds it takes to open the project with a god damned 6 month old i7 and SSD.

Also every time someone references a "web application context" a pure function dies.

>>52683200
>I just don' think Node will actually be usable in a serous environment until it coalesces a bit. The node ecosystem is so fractured at this point it's ridiculous.
I'm split really. On the one hand there's a lot of junk in NPM, and a number of things don't interop well but as the years go on I'm increasingly questioning the wisdom of the "big framework" approach. I like working with Django, but swapping out a component is always a maintenance liability. If you look at clojure's webdev situation there is no real single framework, every project is the amalgamation of a lot of generally small parts and it actually works really well. Even Holovaty has repeatedly said he wished people would stop asking "how do I do X in Django" when they should be asking "how do I do X in python" which I think is symptomatic of the monolithic web framework approach.

When I look at the node ecosystem I see the potential for that "lot of small, independent parts" setup, express doesn't really restrict your choice in pretty much anything else, npm would seem to support all the necessary things to make it work. I agree it's not there yet, maybe it never will be, but I think at least the potential for that nice composability is there.

>>52683218
The former I guess so at least there won't be the temptation to try to eval it but I think something like JSON would give you both the structure and safety while sparing you the exercise in parsing a custom string format.

>>52683279
Give a similar example app with required functionality.

>>52683279
What's your prior programming experience? Are we talking CRUD? Static site? Or something more involved?

>>52683296
I'm making a customized CMS.

>>52682925
How is node good for small scale apps? I thought the async io made it good for large scale apps with lots of connections?

>>52683376
>simple web app
>customized CMS

var userAnswer = prompt("Do you want to race Bieber on stage?");
if (userAnswer === "yes") {
    console.log("You and Bieber start racing. It's neck and neck! You win by a shoelace!");
} else {
    console.log("Oh no! Bieber shakes his head and sings 'I set a pace, so I can race without pacing.'");
}

What's wrong with this?

>>52683506
>=== "yes"
http://web.eecs.umich.edu/~bartlett/jsops.html

>>52683506
Apparently three equals is a legit thing. I made a game with 10s of thousands of lines of javascript and always used "=="

Also what you posted works.

>>52683558
Yeah CA was telling me to use three equals the whole time. Just going to use two from now on, I guess.

>>52682987
Daily reminder that I'm being paid for this shit while you're fizzbuzzing in /dpt/

>>52683175
At my job, compitely agree with both >>52683242 and >>52683343

>>52683612
It's a beautiful thing.

[spoiler]now only if I could land one of those jobs[/spoiler]

spoilers don't work here do they?

>>52682856
what's up senpai? building a giphy clone for webm's under 2m. Should I go on?

>>52682902
read >>52682925

>>52683612
feels good mang

>>52683530
triple equals is almost always correct, it you're actually depending on type coercion then you're probably doing something wrong and if you're not you can save yourself some bugs by avoiding it. This is like the most commonly used linter option.

>>52683721
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it worked, so fuck it

>>52683738
ehh, it's not as big of a deal as people make it out to be but it's worth learning the difference. Type coercion will bite you in the ass one day, as it does to us all, plus knowing the difference is a kind of shibboleth in the community. People have made a sport of trying to abuse it and other JS quirks to form the most counterintuitive expressions and thing taking them to people to see if they can figure it out by squinting at them. It's kinda fun actually.

>>52683721
Triple Equals is also faster than double, since it only checks for congruence

>>52683506
>>52683530
>>52683558
>>52683580
>>52683738
You should always be using === and !== instead of == and !=

I'd post links but I'm getting caught in the spam filter badly. At least some other anon explained it.

Honestly, the rock paper scissors bit in codecademy's js course makes no sense. They don't teach you enough to throw that at one and I suspect they changed it because all of the FAQ posts about it are referring to something very different, it seems.

>>52683945
Yeah I'm getting frustrated with this. I was screwing around with this last night and couldn't get it either. Can anyone help me out here, I'm just completely lost.

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>>52683945
>>52684017
>mfw I realize I was at the conclusion part of the last lesson before and all I had to do was hit save and submit code
complete r e t a r d a t i o n

Should I even dev in Windows anymore?

Everyone wants LAMP, everyone wants GIT (which btw what's the best? I heard people use bitbucket now?) and everyone that doesn't use linux uses mac.

>>52684064
Mac for web dev desu. You need it to test/debug safari, both the desktop and iOS versions. I know /g/ hates Apple but their laptops are the best you can buy at the moment.

>>52684099
What the fuck?

Alright, I could get a killer asus instead and hackintosh it, then spend the thousand I save on an hour with a world class hooker.

>>52684099
>not thinkpad

>>52684064
i use GitHub for my personal shit because it was the first one i knew about and i don't care about it being public.

the company i work for uses BitBucket because you get private repositories for free. but they've expanded since so pay now anyway.

i've not used it, but i've heard that GitGud is pretty, erm, gud.
https://gitgud.io

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/google-will-soon-shame-all-websites-that-are-unencrypted-chrome-https

Don't forget to encrypt your cooking blog. Don't want the NSA stealing your cookie recipes.

>>52684136
you'll probably lose money overall when you account for the time you waste having to set it up, making sure it doesn't break and wishing you shouldn't have bought a shitty laptop instead of a retina macbook pro

Hey, /g/. I used to play with PHP/MySQL/Apache a while ago and I enjoyed it. Now I'm playing with Python and I'd like to do webdev again. What framework should I use? I just want to set up a home http server, to see how it works. Django, Pyramid and Flask look complicated as fuck. Bottle is simpler, but it's still so different compared to what I used to do with PHP. Is there any framework that is more akin to how PHP worked?

>>52684099
>You need it to test/debug safari, both the desktop and iOS versions
A browser which is restricted to a single operating system is a browser not worth debugging.

>I know /g/ hates Apple but their laptops are the best you can buy at the moment.
Delusional.

>>52684188
Also, keep your eye on the price of certificates. And watch that shit skyrocket.

>>52684188
prepare for your inconspicuous cooking blog to be proxied and injected with malicious js

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>>52684099
>You need it to test/debug safari

No thanks, I'll just stick to BrowserStack for Safaritard (which, by the way, became the new IE in terms of "just fuck my shit up"), it's more than enough.

I'll stick to my glorious Linux with Gnome, Apple products are the new meme since Jobs died (implying it wasn't a meme before).

>>52684201
You are 100% correct. However, when you're selling a website to a customer who wants to sell shit and make money, they don't accept "fuck Safari and fuck IE" as a valid coding philosophy.

>>52684221
>uses gnome, a meme born from gnuslashrms' resentment for superior software that won't let itself to be overtaken by the fsf

>>52684221
That nigga laughs at your Gnome. He's a KDE playa!

>>52684219
My own website uses no javascript. CSS and PHP work just fine.
The great thing of running your own website is that nobody can force you to do shit.

It's also not tested for IE and Safari. Feels good man.

>>52684263
Do you trust us with the url?

>>52684263
your website sounds shit

>>52684263
Your site uses no Javascript as served by yourself, but anybody between you and your visitor has a say on the content if you're using HTTP. A malicious free wifi hot-spot can do wonders.

>>52684221
Just realized that I've never tested anything I've built in Safari.

>>52684428
You never had any client?

>>52684213
>i haven't heard about https://letsencrypt.org/

>>52684201
That may well be the case when doing small hobby projects. But when you're working for a company with over a million customers that use the site daily explanations like that just don't fly. It has to work, even on safari.

>>52684443
N...no. Haven't done anything major yet.

Well fuck, the latest version of Safari for Windows isn't even supported by many websites (including Youtube). That's that then.

>>52684578
you don't have a mac? what the hell are you doing?

Let's compile a list of free shit to add to the OP

>>52681445
fuck yeoman bower grunt npm and node all together.
jesus fucking christ

I can already write software (C,C++,Python etc)

But I don't understand how web stuff works at all -- front end / back end makes no sense to me, I don't get how web sites 'work', etc

Where do I learn the 1000 foot view stuff? Every online resource just assumes you know this stuff or assumes you don't care. Every tutorial is just blindly
>First do this!
>Then do that!
>Then do this!

I mean... I'm not looking for recipes, I want to understand what the fuck I'm doing. And web dev is so confusing compared to everything else, I have literally no idea what is going on with any of it.

So I'm at a startup, and we're planning to rebuild our backend (we're using Parse now, which is being killed in a year).

My CTO insists that we should use Rails as a service layer, and Sails.js for the web application.

This doesn't make sense to me. Is there any reason to do this? Would it even work?

>>52685420

Frontend: Graphical representation of data
Backend: The systems that recieve, process, and deliver data (usually to frontend)

>>52685447
forgot to add User Data input to Frontend

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>>52681445
I love pic related. i can truly focus on the project and build fast API and web services.

>>52685432
>sails.js

You're doomed

>connect my domain to zoho out of poverty
>it works better than outlook and yahoo
Replacing Americans with poo in the loos is actually a good thing.

>>52685447
>>52685468
Thats not helpful

>>52685511
>php

>>52685420
Imagine making a pretty word document. That's frontend. You use divs (formerly tables) to sort everything and make a nice page out of lego blocks with it. You use html/css/javascript for that.

Backend is excel. You put stuff into tables and get them out of it and paste them into your word document to get dynamic content. You can use any language for that, but php is the most common thanks to prebuild CMS systems.

>>52685740
Now replace word with html and excel with databases.

So I finally did learn python and want to start with django. It is actually a good idea to use python for webdev shit? I already know java EE (with spring) and I love it but still want to try something new.

I have a problem like this, a sidebar with a list of topics, a hidden div with the full content of the site, and a container div.
https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/getting-started-with-ruby#prepare-the-app
By clicking on each element of the sidebar, a script loads the content of that section using ids into the container div on the main page.

How much javascript do I need to know in order to do that? I read the resources list on the OP but I'm not sure I'm willing to go through all those js books right now.

>>52685764
I know this guy using django, he's working on satellite monitoring for a fishing fleet. It's definitely good.

>>52685648

Because you're retarded

It makes perfect sense to everyone else

Guy wants me to make a Wordpress site for him, how much should I charge?

>>52685911

My first job was a custom site based on wp and I charged 3k

spent 2k on a bike, I was so fucking retarded back then

>>52685511
Laravel's promotion department hard at work I see.

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>>52685922
>mfw I only charged 800$ for my first site and realized my client could have paid 2-3k

>>52685911
depends

can you use a pre-purchased theme?
$1,000

Do you have to design the theme?
$2-3,500

Do you have to custom develop a theme, and plugins to meet a very specific goal, and turn the site into a service?
$1.3 Billion

>>52685911
Guy want me to make a car for him, how much should I charge?

>>52685511
>fast
https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r11&hw=peak&test=query
5 times slower than regular PHP, which is already terribly slow.

>>52686109
Everyone is bad the first time. ;)

>>52686109

Yeah you fucked up, I even contracted out all of the coding to some guy in india lol. I just designed it in photoshop and payed him 200 to do the rest.

kek

>want to learn flask
>curious to see which sites are built with it
>visit powered by flask page (http://flask.pocoo.org/community/poweredby/)
>half the sites are down
>rest are non functioning
>all are very basic and look like complete shit
>they list they're own site

this is so sad and pathetic that its actually kind of funny. I love flask so far and I know its just because it isn't very popular but god damn they need to get there shit together

>>52686598

LMAO they're own site that they list isn't even functioning it just gets worse

>>52684064
>GIT (which btw what's the best? I heard people use bitbucket now?)
Git is a source control system, generally the industry standard (formerly SVN, you sill see shops that use SVN but it's becoming increasingly rare). Github and Bitbucket are both services that host git repositories for you. Insofar as one needs to "learn git" you only do it once, github and bitbucket are largely dropin replacements for each other.

>>52684221
>became the new IE in terms of "just fuck my shit up"
the webkit browsers have always had more in common with each other than with gecko or IE, if you dev on chrome safari is almost generally implicitly supported.

>inb4 muh blink
>inb4 muh v8
Empirically there's still less drift between chrome and safari than between either and firefox.

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>>52685511
>php
>fast
Try phoenix, son

>>52685420
Google HTTP or read the RFC.

>>52685511
I hope you're getting paid to shill

I've started learning webdev like a week ago.

It's ok if I hate CSS? Because I hate it.

>>52685764
Yeah, python has a very strong webdev community, it's probably moving towards being the largest single use case for the language. Django is great and miles ahead of spring IMO, if you've never worked with a framework that wasn't ENTERPRISE QUALITY you're in for a treat.

>>52685420
blindly follow that shit and at some point it will all make sense.
you shouldnt care about how it works, just make it werk, which is fairly easy.

>>52687040
CSS is the only thing that makes HTML remotely interesting,

>>52687056

I do agree it's interesting, you can do some nice shit with it, but writing it is ass

>>52687040
It's OK if you hate anything, but if that hate is preventing you from utilizing it efficiently, then you've got shit to fix.

>>52686120
This isn't even exaggerated at all.

>tfw some non-client asked if it was possible to do the third option for under 1k

>>52685420
>I can already write software (C,C++,Python etc)
>But I don't understand how web stuff works at all
How is this possible...

>>52687040
just use some framework, it will already give you some css then just use their classes

>>52687040
>It's ok if I hate CSS? Because I hate it.
I don't think anyone who needs to use CSS to make a living actually enjoys it. The best you get is a weird sort of comfortable where it's all you know. Like when you've been with your girlfriend for a long time and kinda hate her but don't really know what else you'd do with your time and money. Plus it there will always be CSS N+1 to cuck you with features you can't use yet.

It's interesting that every proposed solution to the CSS problem is a preprocessor that basically extends plain old CSS syntax, no one has tried to replace or build on top of the classical box model as far as I know, despite us all knowing how bad it is.

>>52687070
Are you good at it?

If you are learn SASS or a CSS preprocessor

>>52686988
yes, i'm getting paid, i live in mexico and it is hard to get a well paid job in web dev in here so i'm happy

>>52681781
You're telling me that you think procedural PHP is maintainable when your have multiple scripts? Even 1 script is shitty in procedural.

>>52687156
Loved the analogy.

>>52687167
I've just started, so I don't know if I'm good at it. I just get confused when mixing selectors, ids and classes in the same line, on top of pseudo-classes.

>>52686598
Flask is great man, although the community is getting really quiet unfortunately.

>>52686271
the speed inproved a lot on php 7, but still speed is not very important, most of the time I need to develop web services or make changes in a very short time, and laravel helps a lot.

>>52687045
>largest single use case for the language
that would be the scientific community

whats the advantage of using a javascript template engine?

>>52687095
>>52687040
this

>>52687309
I know it isn't in most cases. I just wanted to point out your inappropriate use of "fast".

Does anyone use browserify or similair to handle your frontend js?

I just started to restructure my 100k js-lines shitfest of a project to be more modular. What I've seen so far, it's really good.

>>52687346
webpack > browserify

>>52687321
Most languages start out as "science languages" for political reasons within academia and industry. It almost always fades away as soon as the language starts getting mainstream appeal because the simple fact that scientific commuting is the vast minority of all computing, at least by community representation. You can see this with python. Django has like 30% more commits than numpy despite existing for considerably less time. Of course that's a rough gauge on community use but look at almost any community metric and you'll see something similar.

>>52687323
The big one is it lets you render on the client side, so you can just exchange json. That makes testing a lot easier and arguably it's a good seperation of concerns

>>52687341
i meant fast development, sowwy

My workplace uses Lotus Notes
Kill me, end me, just destroy my existence.

>>52687495
Do you work at a hospital ?

I need some help guys.
I need to make an input box which will auto-fill the remaining letters from a mysql database.
For instance if I start writing :
>New
it should give me an option
>New York
>New Jersey
Considering that those two are of course already in the database.
I'm working with ASP.NET and C#

>>52687546

http://www.ajaxcontroltoolkit.com/AutoComplete/AutoComplete.aspx

>>52687546
I don't, but it is pharma related. Why hospital though? are you telling me to find meds for suicide

Fuck who even uses Lotus

>>52687546
>>52687609
no, fuck these aspx controls.
just make a normal textbox and use a good/finished/modern JS library to do your autocomplete.

if you are actually still using webforms, and holy shit, I hope you don't, then fake an API to do your ajax calls against with a generic handler.

>>52687714
In one hospital I worked at they were still using Lotus Notes 3 years ago. They switched to something else now.
>>52687609
Do I need to create a custom web service for this to work ?
>>52687716
I'm working with MVC and I'm still learning.

>>52687767
forget the ajaxcontroltoolkit, these are ancient controls used for webforms, you really don't want to use webforms in an MVC project.

you can just add an apicontroller to handle any libraries api calls for the autocomplete.

I've been using https://github.com/twitter/typeahead.js with MSSQL full text search in the background and it does pretty well.

>>52687546
Just go with this >>52687716 >>52687824

It's going to be by far the easiest and best solution. Also typeahead can do pretty much anything you want, I've done some pretty nifty autocomplete fields with it.

So I feel like I know HTML and CSS pretty well, is there like a checklist of things I should know to make sure I actually know it?

Im very fluent in C, but don't know any Javascript or Jquery. How long would it take to pick JS up? Is Eloquent JS a good book to use?

From there I'm thinking about maybe learning Node.js, and then getting really good with Git, Gulp, and Sass. Probably PHP at some point too.

Does that seem like a good strategy?

>>52687900
Forget PHP. Pick literally any other back end language over it.

>>52687900
Make templates.

>>52687900
>Im very fluent in C
Senpai, teach me. I'm learning C to take a break from this web stuff. We're opposites are we not?

>Death to PHP.
Its already happening, kek. Just think in five years it will be irrelevant.

>>52687824
>>52687894
Thanks for the input and help. Appreciated.

>>52687941
>using a language to create something

That's not so opposite

File: Don't be sad--we're back in October!.jpg (172KB, 700x492px) Image search: [Google]

172KB, 700x492px

>>52682907
>This is my own fault though, wrote it years ago, now I'm saddled with maintaining it.

>>52687919
I've messed with Ruby on Rails some, is it a meme or worthwhile? Seems like Node is the most popular thing these days though and it would be nice knowing one language for front end and back end.

>>52687926
This is a good idea. Basically I should able to comfortable take a design I sketch out on paper and transform it into HTML/CSS?

>>52687941
If you're not already on a Linux environment get on one. OSX doesn't really count because some of the C libraries you'll want to use won't be on there. K&R is the classic and obvious choice, but the Learn C the Hard Way tutorial is really good too. Some good projects to aim for would be to make your own shell and your own compiler. Make sure you really drill down the C fundamentals because you need to be a little more careful than other languages.

>>52687900
>From there I'm thinking about maybe learning Node.js, and then getting really good with Git, Gulp, and Sass. Probably PHP at some point too.
>php
>in the year of our lord

>>52688011
I got bored of K&R so I'm reading Learn C the Hard Way now. I dislike it, but whatever.

What do you think of this? https://matt.sh/howto-c

>>52687900
>So I feel like I know HTML and CSS pretty well, is there like a checklist of things I should know to make sure I actually know it?
You probably know it. "I know HTML and CSS" is roughly equivalent to "I know how to write a make file" in the C world. Something you need to know how to do (or find something else to do it for you) but it's hard to say "what do I need to do to make sure I know make". Well you've got to make something, which means you've got to learn C. Likewise to have a firm grip on frontend you really do need to know JS, every "test project" I can think of requires at least some JS. Something like being able to program a simple carousel from scratch (a terrible design, but something that touches most the key things a dev needs to do) would be a good interview question and a good way to tell if you're fluent or not.

>>52688058
Take that with a grain of salt. There's some good stuff in there but a lot of it isn't really conducive to learning. It's one of those things to keep in your back pocket and look at later after you've gotten a lot of C down. Then worry about it.

>>52688163
What would you recommend for learning JS? I tried CodeAcademy but I was bored to death at the pace.

When doing CSS is it better to have one CSS file with multiple viewport size layouts or to have multiple CSS files for the sizes and then load them with conditionals in the head?

>>52687900

>html
is your code perfectly semantic? Are you following best practices? is your code minimized? are you familiar with media types?

>css
are you familiar with any preprocessors? oocss? css architecture? best practices (flat selectors, etc.)? are you comfortable making responsive sites? are you familiar with any frameworks like bootstrap?

html and css come in two forms; the basic understanding and then the advanced. Any jackass can pick up basic html/css and use strict margins to do their layouts but learning advanced css/html takes a lot more work.

>>52688218
Thanks for that. I think I'm good for the most part except some of the CSS stuff like OOCSS and best practices. I've used bootstrap quite a bit but I try to refrain from using it so I can get more hands on experience first.

>>52687951
but, why?

>>52688210

one file, imports mean more http requests and a slower load time

>>52688244

best practices are the hardest part because there isn't a single resource that lists them all, you just have to learn from reading code, also conference talks are a great resource for that. But yeah thats the main distinguishing factors between a good developer and a shit one; if you're going to be doing it for a living you're expected to know best practices and the more advanced topics like architecture and the logic of the code.

>>52688210
If you want to split your CSS up for easier handling use a preprocessor - always minimise the amount of HTTP requests as much as you can.

>>52688282
Right now I'm just applying for entry level jobs. Web dev just seems the most exciting but most of my experience is in C. I feel like I'll be able to pick everything up quickly it's just right now the main experience I have to show is C. I'm hoping that if I can show I have a drive to learn and a decent head on my shoulders they'll believe I can pick up my skills on the job quickly.

>>52688188
>What would you recommend for learning JS?
I'm not sure, I haven't seen a lot of great learning resources. Codeacademy is really hand holdy and teaches some questionable stuff. "The Good Parts" is considered a really influential book but I'm not sure it's really a great resource for learning the language. I've heard good things about Eloquent Javascript but can't speak it it myself, I've never read it.

>>52688310

I dont have much experience in that regard but I don't think you'll have much trouble, especially since you know a much lower level language like C. Just learn some basic javascript (or even advanced since you already know most of the concepts behind the code) and you'll should be fine

>>52688188
Thanks for the advice anon

>>52688188
Treehouse has a pretty good JS program if you're into Codeacademy-like learning. Those learning methods are only really good though if you give yourself enough time to play around.

>>52688058
>What do you think of this? https://matt.sh/howto-c
It's, uhh, pretty opinionated. Although I agree with him on most things it's clearly written to raise some hackles. Also I don't think you can really learn the language from that, it's more of a best practices document.

>>52688261
It usage numbers have been going down for awhile. Social justice is trying to take control of the core development, this will lead to a perpetual internet fight that any sane person will want to avoid. As a developer do you really want to be dragged into, or associated with either sides extreme people. It already turned into a name calling slap fight from what I've read. PHP is not good enough to deal with any of that.

Good CSS frameworks to learn that aren't bootstrap?

>>52688694
Literally anything else.

>>52688791

can anyone get me a writeup as to why bootstrap is so hated here?

is it just because it's popular?

not even a webdev

>>52688694
Just use any sass framework and make your own product that looks great AND unique.

Or use Polymer.

>>52688811
everything looks the same, most people use it without any modifications.

>>52688835

so basically just because it's popular?

no actual technical reason?

>>52688864
I guess so, I'm no expert in bootstrap hating though.

>>52688811
It encourages lazy uninspired work because it's all just -right there-.

>>52688864
>everything looks the same
>so you mean because it's popular

>>52688811
Because it's popular. And because it's popular there are a lot of sites that look the same because devs are too lazy to customize bootstrap.

There isn't anything inherently bad about it, except being a bit bloaty maybe.

Post your best grid frameworks.

>>52688879
>It encourages lazy uninspired work because it's all just -right there-.

so let me get this right: a library makes you lazy

you sound like a C hipster of web design

>>52681445
fuck you php is great

>>52688912
http://purecss.io/grids/

angular or react?

>>52688912
bootstrap

>>52688864
You can have a grid system in more lightweight frameworks. The responsive grid that just werks is the main reason for its popularity.

The components it comes with are only useful for product landing pages or shit like that. For web apps, most of them are worthless. You end up writing so much own CSS that you begin to wonder why you don't just use a simple grid framework and make EVERYTHING yourself.

Well, that or you use something that comes with more suitable components.

And the third alternative, which is what an unfortunately large number of developers do, is to just use bootstraps components, no matter how unfitting they are for the task at hand

>>52688811

Bootstrap is a framework with a grid and predefined classes, that's why its hated. It's for lazy developers, literally the dev equivalent of going to web.com or whatever its called and making one of those "create your own website using drag and drop"

its web development for kids

plus it doesn't even solve a problem, just stop being a lazy piece of shit and take the two hours to create a framework for your own project

>>52687323
As opposed to what?

>>52688936
React with Redux. Angular 1 is dying (thank fuck) and Angular 2 is ridiculously overweight. Those polyfills, man.

Polymer might also be interesting.

>>52688918
Why do you feel the need to oversimplify arguments and therefore ruin their entire point? That's all you've done so far in this thread tbqh

>>52688936
knockout

>>52687373
Systemjs > webpack

>>52688960
as opposed to not using any at all. why do people use them?

>>52688682
Or it could just be that PHP is and always was fundamentally a broken language (braindead stdlib, original implementer didn't know how to write a parser and stuck us with retarded variable prefixes for all time, inconsistent APIs everywhere) and we're now starting to get more viable alternatives.

>>52688931
good link, thx anon

>>52688931
Yahoo Bootstrap

>>52688290
Unless you are already using HTTP/2.

>>52688976
Easier and faster to work with. But I don't see too much point in some DSL template language, when you have ES6 template strings.

>>52688975
>implying
Call me when systemjs has more plugins and is more widely used that webpack

I want to create classes like the ones used by bootstrap and Foundation in order to define the width of columns in a grid. (e.g. medium-6 or large-4).
Can I define such classes that will customise a DOM element depending on the last part of the selector (the number in the previous examples) using SCSS?

>>52688972

but it's the arguments that you were giving me that deserve replies like that

"oh but it's for LAZY people" is a failure of understanding why the tool exists in the first place. I'm not saying "popular = good", but if something's popular then there has to be doing at least *something* right to warrant the attention

and there's this sort of obsession in some sections of programming to completely shun anything popular or time-saving. i know it because i've been part of it, too -- especially when i was younger and getting into programming more, so sometimes i feel like that sort of response is that same kind of knee-jerk reaction to anything popular

i understand now though that there are other grid frameworks that come with less baggage and manage to solve the same issues -- that's a better argument.

>>52688950
>using a framework is too easy, literally drag an drop
>just create your own framework
Anon please make up your mind already. It's clear you've just another person with a not invented here syndrome but too blind to see it.

Also this shows you've never worked a single day in your life in a team environment. No one cares about your fancy self made framework and grid when they've got work to do and there already is a working solution.

>>52689073
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here

>>52689062
Yeah, ES6 template strings really helped. Fuck the old string concatenation.

I'm not allowed to use ES6 or Typescript in my Projects, so most of the time when I need to make a template, I write it down in the Typescript playground and copy the resulting JS.

>>52689072
>I want to create classes like the ones used by bootstrap and Foundation in order to define the width of columns in a grid. (e.g. medium-6 or large-4).
poor design and unsemantic

>>52689077

>bootstrap is a shit framework
>all frames are shit

you've literally reached a new level of retarded-ness

>>52689063
You don't seem to understand, System.js is a polyfill for System modules (with support for still loading legacy formats). In a few years those will be standard and you'll be able to get rid of it.

>>52689097
Restrictions by higher ups?

>>52689077

>never worked
If I suggested using bootstrap at my job I would 1) lose the respect of every dev on my team and 2) be fired for introducing a bloated piece of shit framework that literally does my job for me in a half assed, generic manner

I literally can't even imagine using bootstrap - which even according to the documentation was created for quick mockups/mvc's - in a professional environment holy shit you're retarded

>>52689101
Why is that poor design though?
I want to use it for defining the height of various elements without resorting to inline css. I'm new to web development so if you have any better suggestion please let me know.
I would still like an answer to my question though (can it be done and if so, how?)

>>52689073
>and there's this sort of obsession in some sections of programming to completely shun anything popular or time-saving. i know it because i've been part of it, too
So instead of taking the arguments AS THEY ARE, you had to inject your own view into them so they fit into your narrow worldview? I already stated, BS bogs down web design by encouraging developers to be extremely lazy. Instead you take this as "U JUS DUN WANA USE IT BECUZ ITS POPULARS"

>>52689077
Teams create their own frameworks all the time, others utilize better frameworks that aren't BS. Don't know where you're going with this.

>>52689073
>especially when i was younger and getting into programming more
That's the sad reality of it. Some actual devs have some fairly minor gripes with bootstrap (not very semantic unless you use it with a preprocessor and mixins which no one does, carousel is a stupid feature to put in a CSS framework) and suddenly it becomes a way for insecure people to try and fit in with the cool kids. But like you see on /g/, it just gets drawn out into the extreme parody of itself. Cargo culting at its worst.

>>52689157
>BS bogs down web design by encouraging developers to be extremely lazy

that right there is A SHITTY ARGUMENT, you FUCKING IMBECILE

that's exactly the argument that's been used, time and time again throughout the history of programming, to shun anything new because it prevented them from building their special snowflake libraries that did the same basic shit, but buggy and unreliable. i know it now because i've had to use libraries from people who actually believed the apache java libs are bloated and full of cruft

explain to me why bootstrap is bad and what alternatives there are to solve THE SAME PROBLEMS without resorting to "because it makes people lazy, boo hoo, I better spent hours writing my shitty bug-ridden framework that no one on my team knows how to use and has to waste hours fixing"

>>52689127
>Restrictions by higher ups?
Yeah.
>But anon, if you use these things, then the other developers will have to learn them as well to understand your code!
>Yes, that would be great! Using CSS and JS preprocessors would really help us, speed up our workflow and prevent the dozens of bugs that our internal stylesheets and scripts have!
>No anon, developers don't generate any turnover when they learn new things, you will continue to write web applications like it's 2007. 1.7% of all people still use the now abandoned IE 8, so everything must be compatible with it. And now write a new bootstrap theme by editing the css file directly (no, seriously. We do that. You have no idea how inconsistent and buggy most of our applications look because of that).

(Actually, it's worse, because we are including our bootstrap-themes into the document like this: First import bootstrap, then import our companies default theme, then import the theme you want to use for the application and then import a css file that contains styles exclusive for the current application. And of course the theme must be changeable by administrators of the website, so your application specific CSS must look good with any kind of theme - even though that's impossible due to the lack of variables. And let's not forget how the margins and paddings get totally fucked up)

>>52689156
>Why is that poor design though?
It's not actually that bad, I guess the main issue is that it's declaring visual characteristics of an element in the markup.

>>52689150
Bootstrap is nice if you don't care about load times or making a website that looks like it was built with bootstrap.

Our front-end guy refuses to use frameworks and just builds his own based on what the project calls for.

>>52689412
>load times
Can you come up with one fair benchmark that shows boostrap has a significant impact on load times? I bet you can't.

Someone just fucking choose for me, Vue.js, Ember, or React?

My API is jsonapi.org compliant.

>>52689460
It's more a matter of the mentality in general.

You can load as much unused CSS as you want. I don't really give a shit.

>>52683700
Very interesting. Please continue.

>>52689412
>Bootstrap is bad for performance.

And meanwhile you're loading angular, react, ember or some other meme of the week framework to do ajax and dom appends. And orders of magnitude more images, ad scripts and other content.

Oh boy here we fucking go.

>>52689477
http://knockoutjs.com/

So... MySQL 5.7 supports JSON now...
What does that change? Does this BTFO NoSQL? What kinds of things does that make easier?

>want live preview for html/css/js
>codepen doesn't save all of my work despite it telling me it did save
>sublime text view in browser package doesn't even work
>brackets gives errors out the ass despite the files working on literally everything else
>atom's live preview package doesn't even use a real browser
>why would I ever use grunt/gulp/webpack/etc. for a single html, css, and js file

what am I supposed to be using?

>>52689565
So what your saying is it has nothing to do with load times and you just made that total nonargument up? Yeah, I'll believe it.

stop posting

> hating php
> its trendy

>>52689836
>PHP isn't a very flawed language that should better be replaced.

>>52686598
just join us with django

>>52689983

never, django is the bootstrap of python frameworks; using it would mean I fall within the same group as this >>52689751 spastic kid

>>52690019
>I use the same web framework as this autist

test

/wdg/: the most useful and rude general of all.

>>52690019
Lol wut? Why don't you try it before you start spewing nonsense.

>>52689702
All api stuff.

How do I creat REST filters with SQLAlchemy? This is what I have right now

query = session.query(User)
if params.name:
    name = params.name
    query = query.filter(name=name)
users = query.all()

Somebody asked when you would use prototyping and what the point of it was in the previous thread but I never got around to responding.

Prototyping makes for fasting loading objects. They have the same result of adding the functionality in the object itself except that they're not loaded with every new instance, only when they're called.

So for example

function Car() {
    this.color = "red";
    this.make = "ford";
}

Car.prototype = {
    drive: function() {...}
    park: function() {...}
    turnLeft: function() {...}
    turnRight: function() {...}
}

car1 = new Car();

instantiating car1 only loads the properties and makes a link with the prototype

>>52690437

...adding them inside the object itself would mean that every single instance has the functions in memory, even ones that are never going to use them. So if you have an object with functionality that's always going to be used, feel free to just include them inside the object itself; prototyping is only an optimization.

>>52682856
>>52682902
>2016
>not clack

>>52690369
That seems reasonable, is it not working or something? If you have a lot of field and don't want to retype those lines over and over you could do something like

query = session.query(User)
fields = ['name', 'foo', 'bar', 'other_field']
for field in fields:
  value = getattr(params, field, None)
  if value:
        query = query.filter(**{filed: value})

users = query.all()

if you wanted

>>52690494
>filed
field*

have you learned typescript yet anon

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171KB, 1000x1000px

>>52690520
yes, I have, I even contributed to it desu.

Any good general web security resources?

>>52690697
InfoSec News is a pretty good mailing list but it's aimed at people who do pentesting and stuff for a living so depending on what you're looking for it may be a bit intense. I can't never find the time to keep up with it and keep flipflopping between subscribing and not.

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349KB, 570x459px

>>52690566
Show us that commit

>>52690728

Yeah I'm the same with like 10 other newsletters

I'll check it out though thanks anon

Any articles with thoughts or discussion on SPA URL structuring? I have a few different resources and I'm considering throwing them all right on the root domain so it would be something like example.com/username and example.com/resource_title instead of example.com/user/username and example.com/resource/title. I'm worried about name clashes though.

Thoughts?

>>52689747
Here's my shitty hack: Add

<meta http-equiv="refresh" content="3">

to the header to refresh every 3 seconds.

>>52690772
Is there any reason not to structure them like /user/username? It seems like the sane approach. It's probably not a security risk for a clash to happen but resolution order should be deterministic so someone's eventually going to get their thing made unaccessible.

>>52690494
Thanks. How about filtering with numbers? For ages 15+ I got this..

age = params.age.rstrip('-').rstrip('+')
if not age.isnumeric():
    return
age = int(age)
if params.age.endswith('-'):
    filter = User.age < age
elif params.age.endswith('+')
    filter = User.age > age
else:
    filter = User.age == age
users = users.filter(filter)

It works but it's a bit verbose.

>>52690822
...and then you would call the url with ?age=15+

>>52690808
Users can create reviews of the resources, so it'd be cool to have something like example.com/username/super-long-title-of-a-resource-here for reviews.

Clashes could be worked around by appending a number to the duplicate.

>>52689747

Brackets works brilliantly for me, the only problem I've found is that they read url's in a fucking up way but just preface them all with /./ or /../

>>52690785

that actually pretty cool, didn't even know that was possible.

>>52689747
setting up live-reload in a gulp/grunt watch task takes 5 minutes and then it just runs in the background

if you use gulp on bigger projects then you already have everything installed globally that you need anyway

>>52689412
>Our front-end guy refuses to use frameworks and just builds his own based on what the project calls for.

a guy after my own heart, I do this too, not for performance reasons, but because I don't enjoy spending most of the project overriding default bootstrap crap to fit a design that doesn't adhere to bootstraps conventions, I'd rather just do it myself

> people asking if I will make them websites for 80 dollars.

Does people think this shit is drag and drop like a powerpoint.

>>52691022
They can use a drag and drop website maker for free.

>>52691045
With a shopping cart? Is it responsive?
I'm afraid it's the future.

I see a ton of local businesses using that kind of thing and it's ugly.

>>52690952

Is there a list of classes you should use when making your own framework for a project? I know its usually based on what you actually need but is there like a common list of classes? So for example a class that targets buttons, input fields, ...

>>52691097
>with a shopping cart
none that I am aware of but I don't see why not.

>>52691097
https://tictail.com/
Just style it a bit

What text editor do you guys recommend on OSX?

I currently use just the built in TextEdit program, which is nice since it saves everything instantly. But I want something with syntax highlighting and the ability to collapse html elements/js functions or whatever. I don't really care about any other features.

Is Atom any good?

>>52691139
I know only of shopify but it has a monthly fee.

Damn this cellphone keeps coming up as banned for some reason. Some local dick was apparently posting bad porns from dozens of phone ips.

>>52691227
Atom is slow, use Sublime

>>52691245
sublime isn't designed for front end or even web dev in general, use brackets.

>>52691256
Why isn't it designed for frontend?

>>52691285

It doesn't have live preview and if you use it its obvious that its geared toward compiled lower level languages

How would I go about replacing an asp.net system with JavaScript/node/Json? I know I'm being pretty vague but I know a company who's using really old technology for their MVC and want to catch up to modern stuff.

>>52691022
The obvious answer for that is
>well my usual rate is $100/hour but I guess I can make an exception and drop it to 80 for you.

>>52691370
If live preview is that important to you isn't there plugins for that in sublime. And as already discussed in the thread making your own watcher script isn't that hard.

As to the original question evil emacs.

>>52687040
>>52687156

look into sass, and then gulp to process the files on save

variables, mixins and nesting is much easier/efficient

couldnt imagine working without it now

>>52691509

It isn't as good as the one that comes with brackets. The brackets native one opens a new window, automatically edits it without refresh (at least for css where its most useful) and not only that but it has a live highlighting feature where whatever selector/element you click in the code gets a highlight around it so you don't have to remember every name, you can just click anywhere in .btn-small-content and it will highlight it in the preview. It doesn't seem like much but holy shit its incredibly useful.

I actually prefer sublime and spent a lot of time trying to set it up with some of the brackets features but realized that the opposite was easier. Just install a minimap extension and the spacegray theme and you're better off in every single regard.

>>52690822
Yeah, that looks good. There's some syntactic sugar you could use to pack it into fewer lines but it would come at the cost of readability IMO so that's perfectly acceptable. If you have multiple numeric fields the obvious move would be to abstract that logic into a function or validator class or something, whatever makes sense in the context of the code you already have.

>>52691717
Thanks anon. I was really unsure if that was the best way of doing it.

>>52685432
your CTO sucks. I'm assuming they chose to go with Parse in the beginning too

ANy good shells for windows?

>>52688936
react, no contest

>>52690437
that's true, but it's better to move away from "this", "new" and "prototype" in js completely, towards simple objects and functions. there's no reason to complect functions with data

>>52691954
These are necessary for a library I use.

>>52691256
>>52691509
Thanks for the suggestions. I downloaded Brackets, since I prefer something with a GUI, and Sublime is $

It's working pretty well so far

>>52689836
it's been trendy to hate since wordpress came out

>>52689880
replace it with what? the other mature scripting language designed for the specific purpose of running web applications, with native interfaces to almost every API you'd need?

not saying it's great, major php projects like phpbb and wordpress tend toward redundant code logic with lots of vulns

on the other hand, a better designed language like python/ruby seems to need a whole framework to put it on the web

why is drupal so shit

>>52692033
>a better designed language like python/ruby seems to need a whole framework to put it on the web
That's a good thing.

Is there some website that lists other peoples projects they made before they got their first junior front end job? I'd like to compare myself against something else to see if my projects are any good.

>>52692132

If you need to ask that the answer is no you're stuff isn't as good

>>52692132
Make pretty parking pages of you're a designer.

Make Twitter/okcupid clones with bootstrap themes if you're a dev.

You will know if you're good if you get a job. Don't bother freelancing unless you want to make 3.50 an hour.

>write some JS code
>everything works perfectly
>leave for 2 hours to get food
>nothing fucking works anymore
>no clear reason why it stopped working
I don't even into wat. I didn't even close the browser when I left. It's been sitting here open the whole time and now the code that was working perfectly before is suddenly broken (in every browser I've tried too).

>>52692105
it is a good thing, but it's not
>designed for the specific purpose of running web applications, with native interfaces to almost every API you'd need

These threads get painfully slow at night.

Is .one a viable domain name? It's owned by one.com and used fairly often for a new gtld (almost 50k domains registered already).

I registered a cool three letter domain with my name. But I don't want a domain that could be discontinued in 10 years. So I'm doubting if I should use it or not.

I've got the same problem with .nu. As that's from an Island with 1500 people. It's backed by the registry of .SE so they should be fine, unless the Island loses it's independence.

>>52691853
git bash
cygwin
that's about it

powershell a shit

>>52692033
>specific purpose of running web applications
strike that and I can name three off the bat. Why do you need your language to be expressly for a singular domain again?

>>52687045
>>52685870
That's great. I'm mostly focused on enterprise development and learn Java/groovy + Spring because I really love the language, but I'm the kind of guy who can't stop when achieved something, so I moved to php but... that's pure shit. Seriously, even the php frameworks are weird as fuck. After trying python I loved its syntax and the contrast with Java is huge (I love both languages though). I'm like 5 hours away from finishing my core python studies, so I'd move to django since I feel it's gonna be fun and useful.

>>52693060
>These threads get painfully slow at night.
If you think this is bad you should see on the west coast after 11.

What is the absolute best book to learn Javascript

>>52693714
Powershell is as good as bash/bash alternative. The only issue is the verbosity, but can't help it since it just follows .net convention

>>52691853
Use ConEmu, and configure it to your liking.

>>52693878
>Loving java
Masochism must be your hidden fetichism

>>52693884
Well at least they aren't getting autopruned anymore.

We should do something like /agdg/ and have competitions and a list of anon's websites.

what should I do/make/learn

(proto-amateur stuff pls)

>>52694025
Codepen clone

>>52694149
;_; cmon anon that looks very tough

>>52693060
Want some company? ;)

>>52693918
When I was in internships, the only reason they hired me was because I knew Java. The company payed for a Java + Spring development training and the guy teaching us was a very distinguished professor from a top college in my country and he recommended me to further develop my Java skills. The guy who was in charge of me while in internships (now my senior) has IBM Java certifications (he knows lots of shit) and he also recommended me the same.

So yeah, I'm a masochist because actual bright and successful people (who I respect much) tried to set a good path for my future based on their experiences.

For the record, I'm into sadism, so you were close with that one.

>spend forever building personal website in PHP
>come to /g/
>everyone shits on PHP

>>52693892
help. What is the SICP of javascript?

I added a jquery plugin (http://benalman.com/projects/jquery-hashchange-plugin/) to a Rails app and it works on development but it doesn't when deploying to heroku. What am I fucking up? I'm precompiling the assets already.

>>52694364
It could be worse, anon. Like doing your website in java

>>52694364
PHP is fine. It works well enough with jQuery if you ever want to improve things.

Also if it takes off then you can just hire people to do it for you.

>>52694187
Anon, that's extremely basic, you take code inside a textarea and render it elsewhere on the page. I did that when I tried to learn webdev by myself back when I was 16, I'm pretty sure you can do it too.

>>52694330
Luckily for you, the language itself is improving. Java 8 was a step toward the good path.

>>52694364
Don't worry, you will hate PHP soon enough, just when you'll start looking at saner alternatives.

>>52694624
Ok, I think I was just overestimating it. I'll do it!

>>52694412
There is none. Read SICP and transliterate into JS. This is how you learn any programming language.

New thread needed.

How about a competition to help build portfolios? Logo, design and server-side.

Anon's Ramen Shop. Store info with an order online menu. Buy button just sends all info to an email.

>>52694496
Did it in C#, the code is smooth, it works quickly (less than a millisecond) most of the time and the only questionable thing is the mass of ajax and repeated code in my JavaScript.

>>52694364
Ask yourself why you chose PHP in the first place. You can choose any language you like to replace it, only html, css and JavaScript are essential no matter how you choose to manage your project.

New thread >>52694944
>Also, check em.

I was told to come here

I think I passed my Facebook final interview

>tfw no one gives a shit about your open source projects

>>52696010
K dont care

stfu