Subject

stop baiting..
how the fuck would they be able to force you to run windows at home.

>>52669865
i use centOS its really nice

>>52669865
Quit. Actually quit and find a better job.

I just had a breakfast burrito. Was bretty gud.

>>52669865
Yeah dude seriously windows suck
I had to run it recently for autocad and I really kinda gave up, it annoyed me too much
Do you think they're trying to do like an apple planned obscelence thing?

>>52669888
Many companies force you to install proprietary software on your home machines so you can work from home.

When you accept a salaried position, there is no concept of "I'm not clocked in". You have responsibilities and expectations. This is why they take ownership of code you write outside the office and monitor social media: once you sign, you ARE whatevercorp.

This is a silly thread, just dual-boot or get a Thinkpad for $100 and dual-boot it too.

>>52669971
That's whats wrong with america. seriously, leaving all /b/ crap aside, how do you justify the fact that you're basically the employers paid slave? Jesus fuck, never would I sign such a contract

>>52669971
>mfw salaried
>mfw security clearance so I can never work from home

You don't have to believe me. I know I wouldn't. But thank you Uncle Sam.

>>52670041
It's about agency within the company. Places like this aren't McJobs where you come in, blindly follow instruction, and leave. They're places where you structure your life around, and you enjoy doing it.

It's possible to develop software soullessly and painfully. Herd a bunch of fucknuggets into a room, give them a spec sheet, and watch as they shit onto their keyboards for exactly 8 hours a day. Put a funnel named Git under the pipes where the shit drips out of, collect all the shit together, dump it into a plexiclass cube filled with apes called "QA", watch them fling the shit around, then photograph the shit walls and ship it to the client. That's how a lot of software is made.

Or, you can put together people who actually care. People who are interested in solving the problems that the software presents, people who want to see the product built and invest themselves into making it great. Schedules are flexible here: maybe someone has a great idea at 9pm and doesn't want to wait for the morning. Maybe someone has concrete people coming out at 2pm and needs to be at home for them. Maybe someone is taking a trip, but they have important knowledge that still needs to be shared.

All software problems are people problems. The best way to avoid people problems is to make sure that the people involved aren't just going through the motions, but are actually engaged in what they're doing. You'll never get that from clock punchers.

>>52669865
They force you to run windows on your home computer?
I'm willing to bet OP signed away the copyrights to everything he writes at home even when he's not working.

>>52670408
I just said to my boss
Give me the tools if you want me to be available outside of office
Fuck bring your own device
So now I have a company phone, tablet and laptop

>>52670623
>Give me the tools if you want me to be available outside of office
That's what my company does: if you want to work from home (you don't have to, just if you want to) they give you a company Thinkpad.

>>52670623
>working in your free time without compensation
it's like you hate your life

>>52669865
k

>>52670678
>having a passion for something means you hate your life

>>52670678
Being salaried IS being compensated, dumbass.

>>52670408
>I am genuinely interested in giving the company I work all my time on and off work

Fuck you and your kind. It's your kind that makes businesses be able to suck the life out of their underpaid workers, to make them work extra hours with no compensation.

Because your kind is so eager to work for free the rest of us are constantly having to do the same. Why not just work 90h/week on minimum wage if you're so happy to do good for your company. I'm sure your boss won't mind.

Just download more ram

>>52670768
there's a difference between writing code for fun and doing work outside of company hours

>>52670678
>without compensation
> w i t h o u t
> c o m p e n s a t i o n

Grown up jobs are not like McDonalds: you do not clock in and out. You just do stuff. Most do record hours spent working, but you fill those out yourself, and they're not restricted to office hours. If you spend three hours fiddling with something in the middle of the night on a Saturday, that quarter's time sheet will have a three hour block allocated in the middle of the night on that Saturday. Since you're probably required to bill 40 hours a week, maybe you left at 2pm on Wednesday so you could go to the licence branch when it's dead instead of at 6 when everyone and their dog is there.

Unlike working fast food or retail, software development (and insurance claim investigation, and corporate accounting, and system administration, etc) is not restricted to a certain time and space. I can, and often do, get bored at my desk, get one of the company bicycles, ride it down a trail to a little city park, lay back on a bench, watch the birds for half an hour, ride back, and resume working. No one cares, as long as I wasn't in the middle of pairing with someone when that happened.

>>52670050
>tfw i know a pot farmer (legal) who has top secret clearance

apparently you almost instantly get TS when you're in IT, and also apparently you never lose it unless you fuck up.

He hasnt worked for the governemtn in years yet smokes/grows weed, plays COD all damn day and has TS clearance.

Very vaguely what do you do?

>today I will justify being a wageslave
Tick tock, back to work.

>>52670820
hmm that sounds nice
but I would never work at home, or do any company-related work in my very limited free time.
And just because your're used to inhumane working conditions doesn't make it "normal" or "okay" to most other people reading this thread.
Not everyone is from the US.

>>52670783
this

people wonder why america has shit insanely high stress levels and that mentality is then reason why.

>>52670820
It's ok i'm literally in the same position

but this board is like 90% NEETs
they dont understand the difference between doing work and having a job

>get bank holidays off
>4 weeks PTO a year
>my step dad whos been a LEO for 30 years only gets 2 weeks a year

based software development

But every once in a whole an employer will abuse your salary pay, but i work for a pretty laid back company now.

I got a call 20K nautical miles away from the coast on a cruise asking to fix shit for the last company i worked for, had to use vi on my phone to fix some scripts, that was some serious bullshit.

>>52670877
Because some of use just simply love what we do and are better at it than you?

fuck off, git gud nerd.

>>52670902
I hope you were compensated handsomely for working during your vacation.

>>52669865
>even on your home computer
How is that relevant in any way to your job? They have no control over your property.

>>52670408
Good wagecuck, keep deluding yourself that you enjoy working instead of being at home watching anime. Your jew boss needs a new boat, so prepare for unpaid 12 hours overtime.

>>52670914
>my company owns the rights to everything i make regardless of whether i'm on company time or not
>I just love what I do!
>Why aren't you a cuck like meeeeeeeee???

>>52670783
Kek, you dickass, anon is talking about medium-sized companies with <50 people, that focus on quality not quantity, and rake in the cash. These are the companies that last years. One of the biggest industries where you can find these sorts of companies is the brewery industry. A lot of the best recipes are invented by small breweries, they don't produce millions of liters of beer/wine/whiskey/... every year, but they sell bottles for >50 bucks.

>>52670408
>that second paragram

did you work at grooveshark as well?

>some ex-apple dude from the Macintosh team was on the QA

certainly his skills could have been put to use elsewhere...

>>52670820
Flexible hours is not the same as the bullshit OP was describing. If you're not on company time, not on company premises, and not using company equipment, you can do whatever the fuck they want and they have no right to impose any restrictions. Since OP's home computer is obviously not company equipment (given 256MB RAM), if he's not using it from home he should tell them to fuck off with their win10 and their spyware.

>>52670902
wait a minute... so you are the famous "wife's son" everybody is talking about

>>52670935
Bullshit, only a cuck would enjoy working.

>>52670941
>and they have no right to impose any restrictions.
That's fine, we'll just hire someone who is willing to adhere.

>>52670408
>company monitors and controls your behavior outside of the company
>encroaches on work/life balance
>"that's just what it means to have passion for what you do"

Lol, you're such a cuck. You don't have to sacrifice everything for some shitty company that hardly gives a fuck about you, in order to enjoy what you do and be passionate about it. If a company wants to force me to use Windows and/or install spyware on my personal computer, then they can fuck off as I take my passion for programming to another company that actually shows me a modicum of respect.

>>52670984
Yeah, but OP already has the job. They can't fire him for what he does on his personal time with his personal property in the privacy of his own home.

Well, I guess technically they can, but that's the kind of thing you can sue for and actually win.

>>52670984
In civilized parts of the world, there are laws to prevent employers from demanding such nonsense.

>>52670984
This, I had a job offer withdrawn after I refused to sign their draconian contract that said I was to turn over the rights of all code I wrote outside of work while employed by them.
They wouldn't take that clause out, they just showed me the door.

>>52671035
It is literally illegal for them to do this in (at least) California

>>52670846
Yeah, Unix/Linux systems administration is what I do. There's just such a dearth of cleared IT people because honestly, who gets a clearance? I got mine through my college since they work with NASA; it's something I feel more colleges should do since it opens up so many job opportunities in a very good market for the job seeker.

>>52671027
>>52671024
Companies have ways to bypass outright saying
>you refused to install win10 on your home computer.
>you refused to cut your hair
>you refused to retweet our company's tweet
They'll fire in a roundabout way

>>52671072
if it's not in your contract, that's grounds for a lawsuit if you can prove it was for that reason

>>52670983
I also forgot to mention, the companies I was talking about are mostly the ones you can't just show up at for an interview. They pay way more than your average codemonkey jobs with company opel corsas and toshiba netbooks.

>>52671027
In a civilized world, there be no need for jobs and we all would be NEETs

>>52670928
>>my company owns the rights to everything i make regardless of whether i'm on company time or not

hahahaha i'm sorry you don't have the skills to negotiate a contract, i legally own all of the code i've written.

just because you've been cucked from your code doesn't mean the rest of us have.

>>52670914
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

TL;DR I'm currently working on a hostile take over of said company, I never signed the contract he wanted me to sign post working for him (yes post), legally his entire technical infrastructure is mine, all built from scratch, no framework, and still used daily for business operations right now.

(was in a VERY tough spot after LOL GROOVESHARK, and 200 other developers looking for jobs, took the first thing i could to pay bills). For some strange reason i thought no contract would be better for a short term job, boy how wrong i was.

Already got a lawyer in tow, currently trying to figure out if i can actually take over the company, or sue them into the ground.

Either way i'm looking at, at least 30K for the shit they pulled, gonna be a fun year, fuck startups.

>>52671121
If you have a job, you're a cuck. No exceptions

>>52670902
>every once in a whole an employer will abuse your salary pay
I've been working as a software engineer for just under a year and so far this hasn't happened. I've heard from my coworkers that mandatory overtime does happen, but it's stupidly rare. A guy who's been there since the late 90s can remember about five occasions when it happened.

All it ever was, though, was going from 40 billable hours to 50. There was always giant bonus checks those years, too.

1. windows was never meant to run more than one application at a time.
This is why it doesn't come with a window manager that can handle more than two applications.

Options:
You could do is to buy more ram so you can visualize windows if you need to work from home.

You could dual boot if you have to work.

You could ask your boss for a macbook if they insist on fucking with your home computer.

You could ask them to recompile their spyware for linux.

You could get a better job.

>>52671083
The United States is a at-will state. Either party can terminate employment at any time for any reason.

>>52670983
Found the 27 year old burger flipper!

>>52671214
>self employed
>not absolute shit

>>52670408
>Places like this aren't McJobs where you come in, blindly follow instruction, and leave.
Seems like you do if you agree to install windows

>>52671214
I didn't know Pepe's left-handed.

>>52671263
I'm a proud NEET who has never worked a day in my life and never will.

>>52671304
He's indian.

>>52671072
>>you refused to cut your hair
Clients tour offices, you know. They like meeting the engineers they're paying 2 million a year for. If you take your clients upstairs and the office smells like stale pizza and cat piss and is filled with dudes who look like RMS, you're not going to get that 2 million a year.

>>you refused to retweet our company's tweet
If anyone ever asks you to do this, you're working for a "let's totally make the next facebook!" level dipshit. Cut and run.

>>52671332
>working for a contractor
Enjoy being replaced by Pajeet.

>>52671332
I agree with you on the first one, but that wasn't the point. I was merely making examples on companies intruding on your personal time/space

>>52670408
lol nope! NOPE! Nuh-uh!
There's a difference between your work and home life, you fucking cuck. Your company has no jurisdiction to monitor what you do on your own machine.

>>52671436
enjoy being a neet bruh
i'm sure your morals are very important to you as your waste another day of your life in your basement

>even on your home computer
Just set up a virtual machine and install the company botnet on it

>>52671287
Sweet Jesus on a unicycle, this.

I dabbled in self employment. Tried to find work on freelance websites, but after the tenth time my customized, professionally written proposal was passed over for a boilerplate copy/paste job from a group of Bangladeshis, I fucked off and started lurking conferences and meetups.

That landed a couple of contracts: the first one insisted on fixed sum payment, which thanks to his total inability to communicate requirements properly meant that when it was all said and done, I had ended up working for about $4/hour. The second contract was much lighter, just a little bit of web dev, which he refused to pay for and literally told me to take him to court. After consulting with a lawyer, the estimated court costs would be higher than the agreed upon payment. The third contract agreed on an hourly rate, but he had the same refusal to communicate as the first one and when he started refusing to honor my invoice until his demands for that week were met, I walked away and never took another freelance job again.

Freelancers are instantly replaceable fuckbois who procurement departments fuck savagely until they wise up and sign with a real company.

>>52671465
>not a wagecuck
>must be a NEET!
I can almost guarantee I make more than you.

>>52669865
Man, that sucks. I work a shitty sales management job and I'm on the clock like 60 hrs a week, but at least they don't touch muh Linux

>>52671371
> working for a corporation
Enjoy being treated like a trained ape because your boss has no idea what you do and thinks he's a god because he went for business instead of engineering.

In contracting firms, the project managers are all former engineers who found they were better at organizing shit than building shit, and the executives are all former engineers who acquired so much experience and influence that they were trusted to orchestrate contracts instead of fulfilling them.

>>52671478
Stop looking for code monkey jobs that any Rajeet can do. Actually get some expertise in a field and you can earn $2000 a day consulting. At my company we paid $20000 for some famous AI researcher to come in for a week to implement some algorithm he developed to a problem in our domain.

>>52670050
I believe you, got offered an apprenticeship where I'd have security clearance and they went on for ages about how you'd need to get all your shit done while at work. Turned it down though for reasons

>>52671556
nobody on this board is this skilled tho

>>52671436
> I have no interest or investment in what I do.
> My work consists of me begrudgingly doing the absolute minimum required to not be fired.
> I spend the majority of my waking life miserable. This bitterness damages my health and impairs my social life.
> Please, Schlomo, never pay me more than $10/hour.
Clock punchers are the only real cucks.

>>52671556
>Actually get some expertise in a field
That requires working for an actual company first, numb nuts. Independent consulting after a long career is perfectly respectable, but you're not going to find anyone at the end of a long career of /g/.

>>52671595
>he believes in the company mission crap
you're the real cuck here, friendo

Working for others is a necessary evil to live comfortably.
All involvement with my company ends when I leave the door, and starts when I walk in.
Anything else, and your free time is GONE.
G O N E.
You're literally no better than a slave at that point.

>>52671595
>>52671595
>Clock punchers are the only real cucks.
How fucking sad. Has it occurred to you that no matter how much you work, you'll never be irreplaceable to your company? Your employment is an inanimate asset. Tell me if you still buy that crock of shit the next time lay-offs come around, cucklord.

>>52669865
at least he's a funny cuck

>still believing in doing more than you're paid to do

And people still wonder why company's own you

>>52669971
If you have a shitty job. Sounds like you have a "salaried" job. Where they pay you in salary to avoid having to pay you more through wages.

Get a real job.

>>52669865
Tell them no. If it's not their computer they can shove off. If they don't understand this get a better job.

>>52671478
Stopped getting played and learn from your mistakes.

>>52669865
>2020-4
>not dual booting

>>52672144
Working freelance IS getting played. The whole reason they hire freelance is so they can get away with shitting on you; if they had any intention not to shit on you, they wouldn't have hired freelance.

>>52672224
the industry practice of "colluding to not pay freelancers no matter what" can't possibly be legal or widespread

>>52671881
>>52671653
What people are saying is that to be anything of note, one *must* have a skill and one *must* grow that skill over time.

There are people out there (like yourselves) who don't realize that work gives purpose. A skill is part of your identity. The goal is not to make yourself irreplaceable, but to have the skills necessary to make yourself invaluable.

I've never met anyone of note who when asked "What do you do?" doesn't answer along the lines of "I'm a [scientist/researcher/engineer] and I [workout/read/garden] on the side."

You can't grow a skill without it becoming a part of your identity.

>>52671478
When you are self employed, you have to learn how to run a business because you *are* a business.

And businesses don't make money by delivering code, they make money by delivering products.

>>52672470
>You can't grow a skill without it becoming a part of your identity.

Nobody is arguing otherwise.
What you're also saying is that you also can't work a well paying job without it becoming part of who you are, and that i simply will not agree with.

>>52672470
My work/time is worth value

If a company can't give me value for my work/time, that company is not worth wasting my time on.

I could be enjoying my free time or learning new skills instead of meeting extra deadlines after the primary deadlines have been filled just because the business wants to squeeze as much value out of you as possible.

>>52672272
It's not collusion, it's just a consequence of how freelance works.

If it's a small scale operation, they know that taking them to small claims court will cost months of your time and thousands of dollars in legal fees. They're betting you won't bother.

If it's a large scale operation, they know they have much more influence then you do, and they're always out to take as much as they can get from you. If you're the kind of sociopath who enjoys navigating a storm of screamed demands and insults and getting into mexican standoffs of deliverables vs money, more power to you. I, on the other hand, prefer to conduct business cheerfully and stress-free.

>>52672470
>You can't grow a skill without it becoming a part of your identity.
This motherfucker gets it.

If you take the McJob approach to a skilled profession, you will never be anything more than a faceless code monkey.

What are all these companies forcing people to install certain OSes on desktops?

My company gave me a laptop and a dock at the office. And that's it.

>>52672741
>you will never be anything more than a faceless code monkey with 5+ hours of free time every day

You bet your ass I'll be a codemonkey than a slave

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6KB, 233x103px

>>52671309
You are the reason we need to kill off welfare

Go die

>>52672515
>What you're also saying is that you also can't work a well paying job without it becoming part of who you are, and that i simply will not agree with.

This is the difference between a job and a career.

Jobs, which don't require some skill for hire (often trained and trained skill is non-portable), that are high paying are often those which the general population doesn't want. Either they are dangerous or otherwise have a stigma.

What you have in your head is the image of some workaholic who *is* their job, which isn't really the case for many. Becoming a workaholic isn't a requirement.

>>52672661
The only way to achieve this is to become financially independent which requires you to do what I've already posted or to get lucky (rich parents, lottery, etc).

>>52672858
>The only way to achieve this is to become financially independent which requires you to do what I've already posted or to get lucky (rich parents, lottery, etc)
Or work in Europe (seriously). I'm looking at all these posts and feeling pity for you guys. It's crazy how well they control you

>>52672845
Any job where you are free from the responsibility of making decisions (e.g. your boss takes the heat for your fuckup) is a job where you are replaceable and just a slave.

>>52672932
Are you really suggesting that Europe is some magical business land where deadlines aren't required and all employees just work on whatever they want?

>If a company can't give me value for my work/time, that company is not worth wasting my time on.
Businesses are required by law in every reasonable country to give you compensation for your time. The argument here is that maybe you aren't getting compensated as much as you want because you aren't worth that much.

>>52670547
>get shitty job at call centre
>they make everyone sign a form saying they own everything you do even outside work
>point out this is bullshit and unenforceable, what if I write a novel in my own time?
>get fired after one day

Worth it.

>>52669971
>they automatically own the code that you write in your free time.
I never knew that slavery was legal again in the US.

what are you pc specs?

>>52672965
>Are you really suggesting that Europe is some magical business land where deadlines aren't required and all employees just work on whatever they want

It is pretty magical. Deadlines for my department are reasonable, we get paid fo4 overtime and no one abuses it.

>>52673028
Same happens in America (where I live) for skilled jobs.

>>52672991
It has been for a long time. A lot of companies will do this with engineers and anyone else who might invent something profitable as well. Their contract will stipulate that anything they invented automatically belongs to the company.

>>52670408
now i finally understand the full meaning of the word wagecuck

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ITT: /dnt/ - Daily NEET Thread.

>>52673102
>>52672991
>>52669971
I've never seen "Everything you make on your own time is mine" on a contract before. I've seen "Everything you make using company resources, whether on your time or not, is mine", but that's just to prevent people from freeloading on expensive servers.

>>52673865
what if you work on your own projects using your own laptop on company time?

>>52673912
If you bill the hours you spent working on your project, that counts. If you don't bill them, it doesn't.

I sleep in my truck parked in the parking lot of my company and use their showers/bathrooms after hours. Their cafeteria has 3 meals per day, and they have a kitchen I can use on the weekends. Feels good living the good life without paying thousands per year on rent.

>>52669971
This. Idk why wagecuck is even a term when salaried positions are the ones who get tied down

>>52674002
Google?

>>52674041
No but another big company like it.

>>52674018
wagecuck and wageslave are just synonyms for "people who work for a living", regardless of whether you get paid hourly or on salary.

>>52669971

so run company software on a work machine at home, and dual boot into your own machine?

>>52670926
>wagecuck
But he's salaried. 4chan is an 18+ website.

>>52674002
That sounds fucking horrible.

>>52674141
what if he's saving up to put a down payment on a house?
because fuck paying rent

>>52670408
So this is the life of someone who is a wagecuck.
It's like reading people defend NTR.

>>52669865
>>"you have to use Windows, even on your home computer. That or Apple. "

How the shit would they even know

Is there company mandated spyware or something that checks what OS you have? On your HOME COMPUTER?

Is that even legal?

>>52674157
That doesn't take any of the horribleness away, now does it?

>>52674271
What's horrible is spending $20k a year to have the privilege of being able to sit in hours of traffic every day on the way to work.

>>52674506
Hits home, anon. Fuckers at my apartment complex raised my rent $200 and I have to move, because fuck that. I can afford it, but it's principle. There's an apartment five minutes away that's just as nice with $400 less rent.

Thing is, if I could live with my parents and save all that money, I would. Rent is fucking bullshit.

>>52669971
>tfw this is true

thankfully all I have to use is some shitty Cisco proprietary VPN client and only on the rare occasions I have to work from home

the thing runs from a VM without a hitch

>>52674548
Where the fuck do you live that allows landlords to do this?

>>52674609
sounds like the bay area to me.

>>52674649
minus the $400 less rent down the street. seems like apartment complexes here are competing to offer the highest possible price.

>>52674609
>landlords can't change the rent
What kind of retarded policy is this? When your lease is up then you have to sign a new one. If they have people lining up to rent for a higher price why should you get a lower one just because you were there before?

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>>52669865
>"you have to use Windows, even on your home computer. That or Apple.
Call your boss an illiterate faggot and quit

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>>52669971
>what is a company issued laptop
>what is a company issued computer
>what is using a separate computer just for work

If you let some dickhead dictate what you should run on your fucking PERSONAL computer, you deserve to be shot.

Wow, that's some nice freedom there familia

>>52671214
>And who said you could use the 10pt Arial font?
kek

>>52674609
Leases are by the year, not indefinite. They can't change the price during the lease, but once the lease is up for renewal, all bets are off.

>>52674691
> If they have people lining up to rent for a higher price why should you get a lower one just because you were there before?

to mitigate gentrification

not every city has to be new york

>>52674894
I would be glad to pay higher rent if it meant there would be less niggers in my neighborhood.

>>52674905
then the burden of moving should be on you, not on ten thousand niggers

>>52674905
You create a bunch of homeless if you keep pricing people out though.

>>52674894
Gentrification is a good thing. We should be encouraging it everywhere: clean up the trash, fix the broken buildings, welcome upscale business, raise property values, kick out the niggers. No one loses but the apes.

>>52674839
If the is a jab against standards in code/documents, it's unfounded: having style guidelines that everyone follows is a fucking godsend.

I've worked at startups where everyone brings their own laptop and does whatever they want, and I've worked in big stodgy offices with a change control board. While the latter moved much slower, the assets were actually readable: two different times I was with a startup, they both degenerated into unmaintainable wrecks almost immediately. It was such a mish mash of styles, conventions, and sometimes languages that no two assets resembled each other in any meaningful way. One guy would use different coding styles every day, and when I confronted him about he he told me he was "trying to find himself as a code artesian".

The big company had the typical big company problems, but you could dredge up a file that was last modified two years ago, and you could immediately understand every bit of it because we hadn't modified the standards in twice that time.

>>52674884
leases are renewed automatically where I live and the tenant benefits from a "right to tenancy"

in short, any rent increase can be refused by the tenant and taken to court provided the tenant has been there for 5 years or more.

if it's a reasonable indexation, or if the landlord can provide proof of work that would suggest the value has

if it's a $200 hike it basically won't hold regardless of circumstances, as far as I know.

there are a few exceptions related to social benefits but I don't know much about those.

>>52675000
it happens regardless. it's just a slower process.

rent hikes won't throw the poor out but eventually other factors, like increased costs of living, will. this is why I said "mitigate" and not "prevent".

this makes the housing market less volatile and it's more humane in general.

when you grow out of your edgy /pol/ phase everything will start making sense.

>>52669971
Penis

>>52675146
>"right to tenancy"
We don't have that in America, because we don't view renting as a permanent solution to housing. We expect everyone to buy a home of some shape or size eventually; renting is expected to be temporary.

>>52675221
>Oh good goy, buy this $1 million house on 10% mortgage! You want to live the American dream right? 2.5 kids and a white picket fence!

>>52675221
wouldn't that vary heavily from state to state?

>We expect everyone to buy a home of some shape or size eventually; renting is expected to be temporary.

yeah that would have made sense 50 years ago but not so much now. eco density is the way forward.

>>52675254
>$1 million house
Leave San Francisco. I live in Indianapolis, and even on the north side of the city (the rich side) houses cost about 150k-200k. Go to the east side (the nigger side) and houses cost less than 100k.

>>52675278
>that would have made sense 50 years ago
It makes sense anywhere but NYC and SoCal. We have SHITLOADS of space! We have more property than we know what to do with! If you make at least 50k, you can afford a house in 95% of the nation.

>>52669865

Laugh them off and leave

I would argue with them loudly, eventually end up getting fired