Is lifting for girls the same as reading for plot?

>>27934
you nailed it...

/lit/ keeps memeing that literature is more than just stories, more than just escapism. And that you don't read it for the plot or the characters. So what the fuck is it about then? What the fuck do you read for, and what makes a good book?

>>27980
Prose style/aesthetics, beauty, philosophy, provocation of thought

>>27995
>Prose style/aesthetics, beauty
so literally a useless hobby

>philosophy, provocation of thought
once you've read some basic philosophy you've read it all, psychedelics probably let you go a lot deeper than reading someone else's thoughts

reading just seems so useless

>>28052
It seems useless because you never do it.

>>28069
non-argument. You could say masturbating to floor tiles has aesthetic beauty to it and provocates thought, then tell people it only seems useless because they never do it

>>27980
Reading is about getting a new perspective of what life is, from the mind of another human being.

A good book is a narrative that through only narrative means achieves defining its own philosophy.

>>28069
>because you it's fucking useless, vapid nerd ego stroking

fixed it for you

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>>28052
Nailed it on the head.
If you want to read philosophy, read actual philosophy. The only part of /lit/ that isn't trash.

And why bother with fiction? Sure, it's fun.If that's what you want cool, but it doesn't make you smart. There are non-fiction books that I could read that do carry over into the real world or related to my field.

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>>28052
>provocation of thought
>reading someone else's thoughts
Why don't you try thinking for yourself?
Have you never experienced beauty, read a good poem that really made you feel?

>>27980
>And that you don't read it for the plot or the characters

/lit/ is full of not-poets who like to pretend. So, you read literature for the prose and the verse primarily. Reading philosophy is also acceptable because it's sublime and divine.

>>28098
so meaningful (meaningless being harry potter and shit) reading is all about philosophy then?

>>27980
No, A plot can't disappoint you nearly as much as a woman can

>t.definitely not a jaded /fit\izen

>>27980
>>28052
Okay, let me turn it around on you; why do you lift? Just seems like petty superficiality and escapism from the knowledge that your body will eventually decay and you will die

>>28101
Learn to proofread before attempting to fix a sentence.

>>28130
>dude just try thinking for yourself lmao
>dude just try to think of 3,000 years of philosophy for yourself lmao
>dude just experience things you haven't experienced for yourself lmao
>dude just learn by yourself lmao
You are retarded breh, reading others thoughts help you sharpen your own, and 99% of people are incapable of understanding philosophy without reading extensively.

I can tell you haven't actually read any philosophy desu

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>>27934
WOMEN ARE SPOOKS

>>28096
false equivalency

At least reading for plot will give you some satisfaction. Women don't care about muscles at all, they only look at wallets.

>>28052
>psychedelics probably let you go a lot deeper than reading someone else's thoughts

oh

youre one of those dumb faggots

>>28182
Can you read?
I was saying good works of fiction make you think for yourself. Even works like The Stranger or Zarathustra where the main idea is conveying a philosophy.

>>28203
>reading someone else's thoughts
Can you read you mongrel?

>>28136
Yes and no. A good book will define its own philosophy but if you so hard towards that side and only read some faggot philosophy book from some jerkoff 40 year old Philosophy "PhD" then you've gone too far. Philosophers are jerkoff faggots and no one actually cares about anything those pseudo intellectuals have to say.

You have to be sure that your philosophy comes from an artist, not an autist. So in other words, you want to have a story and stories are never about only one thing. You need a story that defines in an interesting manner its characters and settings and then by telling a story with those elements gives the reader a perspective. This perspective can be as simple as you want, the perspective may even be to appreciate a certain hobby (easy example would be various anime like k-on) but it can go even deeper like for example a political perspective (all those 1950s books about racism) and you can even go even deeper into a complete well-rounded philosophy about the nature of humans and the universe we inhabit (easy examples would be Berserk and Tengen Toppan Gurren Lagann).

That's a good book... and a good anime... and a good piece of art in general. That is what you should be looking for.

>>28174
I never pretended lifting was anything but that. It is just a hobby, though pretty useful one since it carries massive amounts of benefits into my day-to-day life

Since literature is all about philosophy, isn't reading kind of moot? If you're not religious, you've come to the understanding that there's no answer to anything, no goals, no meaning to life, no nothing at all, we just are. And every philosophy you can read about is just someone else being. What's the point?

>>28215
Yes. The intention of most good writers, be it fiction of philosophy, isn't "I think this," its "Think about this."

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>>28182
>99% of people are incapable of understanding philosophy without reading extensively.
needs citation. You'd think a /lit/ cuck would know this. And unless you're good at math, you're a joke in philosophy. Obviously, most of /lit/ sucks dick at math.

>>28255
Literally everything you read is someone's else's thoughts, the way it is posed matters but your initial comment was not well thought out my man.

>>28232
>If you're not religious, you've come to the understanding that there's no answer to anything
Religion isn't the answer, friend. Why are you so nihilistic?

>>27934
Who's the girl does she get blacked

>>28223
The problem I have with this is that literally everything provokes thought. In this day and age that's how you define art; it provokes thought. Somebody takes a shit and paints it yellow, that provokes thought about the situation modern art is in, if nothing else. So by definition that's art, yes?

But that's not how it always was. Art was associated with skill, a good painting was only good if it was skillfully crafted. Same applied to music, and books as well. It never pretended to be anything more than "things people really enjoy", a book was art if it set a mood well and made the reader want to read more. Now it's all about thought provocation, which makes it extremely vain and circle-jerky. I have a problem with that

>>28232
Since we're all going to die, isn't lifting kind of moot?

You act as if there aren't real-world benefits to being well-read. Chief among those benefits are being well-spoken and being able to write well. Those are useful skills that can take you far in life. Additionally, you seem to be implying that all philosophy is moot just because YOU are a nihilist. Nihilism may ring true for you, but for others it can be a particular philosopher or philosophy that can motivate them in life and get them to achieve things they otherwise wouldn't have.

>>28232
>I never pretended lifting was anything but that. It is just a hobby, though pretty useful one since it carries massive amounts of benefits into my day-to-day life
yes, nothing wrong with being an hedonist

>>28282
religion offers you an answer, because you believe in it. You can call my own philosophy any man-made word you want, you aren't right or wrong either way since there are no absolute truths to anything, just us and our own little worlds

>>27980
The aesthetic of reading is not only the meta-good of the plot and characters, in the same way the aesthetic of lifting is not just the gains you get at the end. The essential act of lifting a weight up and down is itself the highest aesthetic of lifting. The same beauty you experience from a perfectly executed rep is akin to the experience of good prose. This is why books with great plots can be complete shit, for the same reason pro crossfitters can look /fit/ but still deserve contempt for their terrible deadlift form. Beauty is not just emergent from the system of writing/reading but can be experienced at the most immutable level.

>>28315
>So by definition that's art, yes?
Only if the artist is purposefully trying to make a point with his yellow painted shit. If some downie just happened to paint his shit yellow then that is not art.

>But that's not how it always was. Art was associated with skill, a good painting was only good if it was skillfully crafted. Same applied to music, and books as well. It never pretended to be anything more than "things people really enjoy", a book was art if it set a mood well and made the reader want to read more.

Well, in modern art there is still an expectation of presentation, and skill plays a role in presentation. Of course when I say modern art I don't mean literal modern art as in that shit you see in white art museums nowadays. You have to look deeper than that. In particular, I think painting is dead as fuck and will never recover because now that industry's only customers are upper class white people with shit taste. So get out of that mindset and get into literature instead. That's were art lives in the modern world. Going back to your yellow shit example, if that yellow shit was created with an artistic purpose then by all means it is art, but it would not be well received by anyone (other than by upper middle class bad taste having white people). I would personally never pay to see that guy's yellow shit. Fuck that and fuck him.

Other than that, I think the expectation nowadays is for things to be thought provoking and to be expertly crafted. Presentation and thought are the things that make something succesful. Now, it does get circle jerky but what can you do. As long as the circle jerking doesn't get out of hand like it happened with painting then I think we will be alright.

>>28318
everything that leads to something that benefits you isn't hedonism

>>28333
What I was pointing out is that what you wrote implies there is no answer outside of religion, which is far from the relativist statement you think you are making.

>>28441
explain to me how an answer can exist without it being somehow tied to religion

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>>28284
lana rhoades i believe

and yes.

>>28096
back to /v/

>>28411
Can you give me examples of these books with artistic value, thought provocation with good presentation? Obviously it's arrogant to think I should go down the deep end right away, though I'd like to know about them still, see if I can get anything out of them

>>27934
This bitch looks like someone from a movie or TV show but I can't think who it is. Anyone know it's driving me crazy. It's just in this picture her face looks very similar to whoever the actor I'm thinking of is.

>>28461
You want an Answer. I may have answers but that's it.

>>27934
No.
It is far more like reading for the characters.

Characters are about them and their relationships/interactions. Which is human interest click bait. Which is what females exist to consume. Just look at every kike production targeted at females. Drama, romance.

Where as plot is literally what happened. It is occurrence based. Which is what you get when you ask a guy about his day. None of this feelings bullshit. Sure characters will interact, but plot deals with the outcomes of the interaction, not the motivations or emotions involved.

Reading for plot is about as masculine as it comes. And ignoring feels and relationships is pretty bloody alpha.

>>27934
Wait, I like reading for plot!

...oh.

>>28526
no, I want to know how answers can exist. Answers imply an Answer can be found at least regarding SOMETHING, which isn't possible without the help of religion

>>28096
ah, yes, because all the greatest men to ever live have advocated masturbating to floor tiles, not reading. God could be a flying spaghetti monster, too!

But really man, if you're looking for some proof, why don't you try six months of reading? It gets fun after a while, trust me.

>>28600
>greatest men to ever live
subjective

>>27934
You think 8/10s would give me a chance if i was /fat/?

>>28574
>which isn't possible without the help of religion
Why are you so intent on having religion play such a determining role? Question that.
Anyways, good luck on your quest, feel free to post your findings on /lit/, anon.

>>28650
because the very purpose of religion to being with has always been to offer answers to questions which don't have them. If you're religious and have answers, I can't deny them from you. But if you aren't, you don't have them, because they don't exist

>>28515
Anything Greek
Shakespeare
Paradise Lost
Dante
Goethe
Ulysses
In Search of Lost Time
Tolstoy
Don Quixote
Moby Dick
As I Lay Dying
The Waves
Becketts work
Magic Mountain
Kafka
Postmodern:
Gaddis' work
Blood Meridian
Underworld
Gravitys Rainbow
Gass' work

These are some extraordinary achievements of mankind. Im leaving a lot out but this is basically the lit meme collection and for good reason.

>>28515
Read: Berserk, Holyland, and/or Eden - It's an Endless World!

If you are a fitizen then I'd recommend starting with Holyland as it is essentially a sports manga. If you need to know about what it is: It is about an unsuccesful kid (is bullied, girls don't like him) that only wants to find and then preserve his Holyland. Holyland being the way the author refers to that place where you automatically and unquestionably belong to. That place that brings you peace and comfort. The main character has never had this Holyland, but after he finds himself in a situation where he has no other choice but to be a delinquent and do illegal fist fights on the streets at night, he finds a place to be himself.

Berserk: It is a medieval/fantasy epic where the main character is a swordsman. But deeper than that I see it as a commentary on how nowadays we perceive adventure.

Eden: It is a story that presents you the world at its most corrupt point. Through the short adventures of the main character you see the worst humanity has to be offer, but the real catch is that soon it has to end. The world has to die, and what do you do? Do you see the world as the corrupt piece of shit it is and forget about it, or do you cling to it, even as imperfect as it is?

>inb4 manga aren't books
I am doing you a favor here, japanese artists are 50 tiers above any western artist nowadays. Get reading.

>>28702
>>28706
I'll look into some of these, both western and eastern. Though the thought of having to discuss anything with /a/ disgusts me, so probably more western

>>28686
I'm not religious by the way, if that matters at all, but you write about religion with such authority it's like its very purpose is being with ;)
I must go now but let me restate, your posts read like notion of an answer revolves around religion and this anti-reading sentiment is unbecoming, to say the least.

>>28706
ahahaha great post

>>28780
You don't need to discuss anything with anyone. You could read only for the sake of reading.

>>27934
there is no story without plot, so fuck off with this shit

>>27934
>Is lifting for girls the same as reading for plot?
lifting for girls is the same as reading for girls you dingus

>>27980
The beauty of the prose, new insights, knowledge, even wisdom I guess. But I don't think an interesting plot does any harm as long as it is not the only good thing about the novel/story, or is distracting.

>>27980
Sometimes they just enjoy it more like how someone might be into film cinematography or animation. Other answers aspiring to some "higher standard" exist, but usually they are espoused by people that barely understand the books that get memed around /lit/ all the time.

>>28702
How ios moby dick thought provoking, its a story about a man fighting a fucking whale.
sure you can draw connection between the whale and your day to day troubles and the captain as a man trying to overcome challenges but it doesn't go any deeper than that.

>>27934
If you're not lifting for girls, you're lifting for guys.

>>29135
If I told you I lift because I want to see my own aesthetic body in the mirror, would you call me a liar, a narcissist or both?
inb4 dim-witted 'none of the above' answer

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>>29046

>>29106
>tfw you don't even know how many levels of irony this post is on
>tfw you hope it is bait and some /lit/izens are just bored

>>29388
redpill me senpai i want to learn

>>28114
Reading more challenging prose does make you smarter though.

>>29388
this

>>28702
>Anything Greek
even that portion of the asambleists where a dude compares trying to take a shit with trying to give birth so he asks for the goddess of birth to help him out?

>>30067
especially that portion of the asambleists where a dude compares trying to take a shit with trying to give birth so he asks for the goddess of birth to help him out

>>30067
*assmeblywomen

>>30080
wtf I love greek literature now

Why would you ever wanna miss out on the backstory?

>>27934
I do both and I regret nothing.

>>33028
you will burn out, but you'll burn beautifully and well read

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>>29388
Actually, the greatness of /fitlit/ comes from the fact that there is no irony here, since half of us don't actually know anything about the other half. Therefore, all "you are retarded" posts are rendered invalid, and everyone should educate everyone. Use your autism to take everything at face value, and use your yearning for a place of self-improvement to craft great memes and high quality posts.

We have a shot at something great here.

>>27934

I'd say it's not the same thing, OP. Pussy is a constant that is relevant across the boards.

The implication that lifting for girls is bad comes from the thought that girls are the only thing that could give you a sense of worth. Now, most people here hate themselves. It is reasonable that they think that they need validation from outside themselves in order to have worth. There is truth to this, but just as much falsehood. In my experience, a sense of worth comes from trusting that the default mode of people who know you have net positive feelings towards you. If you hate yourself, this is difficult to believe. It may also not be enough that the few friends you have give you validation. This is a weakness I have that comes to the fore when I'm having a rough time in life. If I go outside not looking my best, I assume that all people I meet on the street are disgusted by me. In fact, they couldn't care less. I don't know how to purge myself of this insecurity completely (other than, of course, looking my best when I leave the apartment), but at 25 years old, I'm getting the hang of the mechanisms behind this.

I swim. I don't do it a lot, because I did a lot of breaststrokes and fucked up my knee, but I'm starting again tomorrow, and I'm looking forward to it. An important part of why I swim is to have a body that will shift the default mode of females I don't know from indifference to sexual desire. This, however, is not the only reason for my swimming. I also do it because cardio is good against stress and depression. Furthermore, I'm a history major, and have to read a lot every day. Swimming helps me concentrate. I swim for girls, but I also swim to get /lit/. I want to start martial arts, and this is partially for girls, and partially to dominate men around me that I perceive as inferior. I'd also like to make some new friends. This probably has a lot to do with insecurity, but also with what I view as a natural male drive to protect friends, deter enemies, and acquire pussy.

Cont.

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>>33184

Now, as stated previously, I also read. During semesters I usually don't have the energy to read a lot besides coursework, and even then I often rush through the books, not remembering a lot of the content, or simply skipping it because I have to meet a deadline and I can usually wing it during a seminar. Since swimming helps me concentrate, it means I waste less time reading coursework.

However, during the summer break - three months - i read for fun and self improvement. And when I read, plot matters. This doesn't mean that I sit like I did when I was a child and read Harry Potter and wanted to know what would come next. Reading for plot means analyzing the behaviour of characters and judging the credibility of their actions and of the story in general. It is what comes before "What did he mean by this?" namely "Is it worth finding out what he meant by this?" If an author shows that he doesn't know much about the human condition (or whatever you look for beyond the plot), there probably isn't much to learn from the book. There might be, but I'd rather be sure before I use the precious summer break hours I have to spend.

Reading for plot can thus be more than just wanting to know what comes next. It can also be used as a tool for economy, as seen above. Furthermore, plot is an aesthetic thing just like prose, and it is the vehicle for the ideas of the book. Of course, it could be a simple plot, two guys talking to each other about the ideas they have. But the actions of characters can allow the reader to perceive the root cause of the ideas presented. In a meme where phenomenological and analytical philosophy are compared, the smug analytical philosopher asks: "How is the history of an idea relevant to the idea itself?" I'd say this is the root of hate against reading for plot.

The history of an idea is important because it allows us to understand why someone came to a faulty conclusion, helping us to avoid it. But more than that, it also allows us to know the context of the idea - the only place where the idea truly makes sense. Yes, math makes sense across the board. But language doesn't. Values don't. Spirituality certainly doesn't. These are basic elements in the human condition, perhaps even more primal than the math that allows us to understand the non-human world around us.

Cont.

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>>33247
>>33184

>>27934
>reading fiction

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>>33184
>>33247

Let us now compare these two - lifting for girls and reading for plot.

The primacy of pussy has a root cause which makes me to lift (swim). Dad left, I was bullied, and for a long time assumed that people's default mode towards me was disgust. Pussy, being beyond mere words, being the surrendering of another being's intimacy through an irrevocable physical act, has become one of the few things I am able to truly trust.

When I read for plot, I seek not only an idea regarding the world or humans in general, but I seek wisdom applicable to the only human condition I now - my own. Reading for plot can of course mean wanting to know who lives and who dies. But if you read literature of quality, containing ideas, you can also use the plot to see a path you didn't take, realising how you could handle the root cause of the primacy of pussy.

Lifting for girls and reading for plot are therefore releated, but not the same. Their connection comes through that which I could also use as a

tl;dr: lifting for girls is the plot of the only human condition that matters. Mine.

>>27934
what if I'm reading for girls?

>>27934
It would be more accurate to ask
>is lifting for girls the same as reading in public to get noticed
reading for plot is like only lifting to get a bigger upper body but skipping legs etc.

>>33691
does anyone do that though

I only read in public when I really can't stand whoever is near me. If I like my surroundings (and thus might try to show off) I really cannot concentrate.

Maybe lifting for girls = reading to be a pseud who brags about how well-read he is? I mean since people don't really read they fall for it

>>33284
only /alts/ could come up with this dumb a chart

>>28174

Helps me false asleep at a normal time and keeps my mood elevated. Seriously, any other reason I come up with is just a made up reason of the month. If I stopped I'd feel like shit, be unproductive (and do worse in school), and go back to living the life of an insomniac.

>>33691
girls who lift in the gym are like guys who go to starbucks alone with a book and strike up convos with any girl who sits nearby. Always well groomed, sharp dressed.

same same

>>28484
different cheek bones