Vegan General

First for meat is delicious and healthy and these threads are blatant shitposts

HEY EVERYONE LOOK HOW MUCH PROTEIN IS IN 100 CALORIES OF CELERY!!11 LIKE 400GRAMS MEAT EATERS BTFO
IGNORE THAT 100KCAL OF CELERY IS ABOUT 12KG OF THE SHIT FUCK

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>>42822951
Use some real argument, meatcuck. You don't need rotten flesh for your protein.

>>42822951
>i saw a meme chart and i am butthurt

>>42823015
>>42823015
>>42823015
that image is fake news please leave

>>42823015
if you complement your legumes with grains you have complete protein right?
For example a few days ago I made a dank burrito with loadsa rice, black beans and avocado

>>42822951
>meat eater goes into autistic tantrum when confronted with reality
Typical. A cow was killed for this, smdhtbqhwyrnf.

Fuck the mods/janitors on /fit/ for not doing their fucking jobs. Just because you """""promptly""""" remove >tfwnogf threads doesn't mean you can ignore spammed b8. Kill yourself

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>haha dude just go vegan lol just look at how nutritious being a vegan is lol just 5 kilos of this to get enough calories

>>42823015
> shows 12 oz steak

fuck your propaganda

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>>42822935
Fuck those shitty statistics
Of course vegetarians and vegans would live longer and have less heart disease than the vaerage meat-eater, because the average person doesn't give two fucks about their health.

Meanwhile vegans are so restricted on what they can eat that they can't possibly eat like a landwhale.

Vegans are still MUCH less healthy than an health-concious meat-eater with non-meme diet knowledge.

This is why I dislike vegans - every vegan friend I've had could not fucking shut up about it and would not stop trying to recruit other unsuspecting people.

>>42823015
The protein in beans has about 50% bioavailability, retard.

>>42823343
>bioavailability
well memed

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>beta virgin meat defenders

>chad vegans


Vegans are slaying pussy while you omnis are sitting at home beating to anime.

Get with it kid. No one is going to fuck you until you stop eating animal products.

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Do you have something with your eyes, meatcucks?

I repeat: YOU ARE !!! NOT !!! ALLOWED

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>>42823015
You sit on a throne of lies.

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>>42822949

>>42822935
>le vegan stats
>90 percent of vegans are women
>women on average live longer and do not develop heart diseases at the frequency that men do
really makes you think.

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>>42823636
Vegans lying?

Imagine my shock

>>42822949
Lol at proven carcinogens are healthy

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>>42823691
Vegan's of fit discord
https://discord.gg/GEe6Aa

>>42822935
Meat eater here

is being vegan or vegetarian easier and/or shorter in the sense of food preperation? I fucking hate preparing food for various reasons

Also how do the shopping budgets compare?

>>42823741
My bill went down. Meat is expensive compared to beans etc.

>>42823691
>proven carcinogen
Tiptopkek

>>42823755
Where do you get most of your protein from? Beans are bretty filling so I doubt I could eat a lot of them

>>42823666
>really makes you think.
it makes me think you're an idiot who doesn't know how scientific studies are done

Oops
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/29/low-fat-diet-linked-higher-death-rates-major-lancet-study-finds/

Vegans of /fit/, post bodies with timestamp. Vegans never do this because they are weak and frail.

>>42823788
I drink rice protein shakes. $20/kg and doesn't give me protein farts like whey did

>animals
>innocent

Why do vegans have to ruin plant-based eating with their lunatic ideology? Meat is poison, but leather is extremely useful.

>>42823794
>low fat diet = vegan
>population study with admittedly very poor controls
>looking at % of fat intake instead of grams
>directly contradicting the other well-controlled lancet study that came out the same time
oops

>>42823794
Lol are you retarded, even if this was true you can eat high fat on a vegan diet

>>42823826
if i took out your kidneys and sold them, i could buy a new bike, also very useful

>>42823826
We're not amoral autists

>>42823817
nice. Will check out, cheers m8

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>>42822935

>>42823889
Get your genetics out of my fridge

>>42823877
If you want a similar amino acid profile to whey, mix rice and pea protein in a 2:1 ratio

>>42823889
GET YOUR GENETICS OUT OF MY FRIDGE

>>42823827
>>42823832
Post bodies with timestamp

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>>42824012

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>>42822935
>mfw vegetarian
>mfw dirty vegan cuckolds are claiming our diet to push their sickly diets

>>42823919
And also have double the portion if not triple due to shit bioavailability and mps response.

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>>42824012

>average 6-10 years longer

So average 8 years longer?

Why not just say that?

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>>42824080
rice is better than meat, umad brah?

>>42824054
enjoy your estrogen packed cow milk

>>42823015
You are fake news

>>42824133
>whey
>meat
>ignores mps response
the more interact with vegans the more I get reminded of anti vaxx and anti fluoride crowds

>>42823327
this is so BS and just shows that you know very few vegans/vegetarians. The vegans and vegetarians I know are eating WAY more junk food then the avg meat eater but they're fine since they don't eat 200extra calories every single meal as the avg meat eater does.

>>42823343
>0% bioavailability, retard.
Being this memed holy shit.

>>42823794
Vegans are forced to show their body but meat eaters defending eating meat dosen't? SeemsGood

Also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_l7gDTvs-s retard

>>42824397
>forced
>what are CBT threads
We both know you are weak and small. Post body with timestamp.

>>42824511

>le vegan calories meme

>>42824511
>keeps you regular

kek

>>42823015
The beef in this picture is 50% fat, which I don't think you can actually buy
120 calories of black beans is 8 g protein

>>42824228
Standard milk has about 50 nanograms of estrogen per liter, and estrogen has poor oral bioavailability

>>42824511
For meat to have 80% of its calories from fat it would have to be almost two thirds fat.

>>42825138

'The present data on men and children indicate that estrogens in milk were absorbed, and gonadotropin secretion was suppressed, followed by a decrease in testosterone secretion. Sexual maturation of prepubertal children could be affected by the ordinary intake of cow milk.'

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19496976

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>>42824268
>anti fluoride crowds
>tfw I live in an area where fluoridation is high enough that toxicity begins to build after 4L of consumption per day

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>>42822935
Truly amazing how many people fall for these vegan bait threads

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>typical meat eater

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You now know she is only 33.

>Being vegan

>>42825215
Jaw of peace. 10/10. 5kg broccoli/day masterrace

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>YFW plants are even smart enough to know meat is good

>>42825176
Why not a useful measure like volume?

Why not chicken breast?

The world may never know.

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Vegans are the smartest and well adjusted people in our society.

I don't understand why people don't instantly convert.

>>42823851
>I love baby birds so much I will destroy human lives to protect them

Veganism is about controlling and manipulating people, not about ethics.

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>>42823449
>>42824386

you can't disprove science just by using the word "meme". 24 grams of protein from black beans is not at all comparable to 24 grams of protein from ground beef.

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>>42822935
Vegan Masterrace

>>42825425
lel, meatcucks are the ones who've been brainwashed from birth

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>>42825457

>>42825202
>n = 18
>methadology is literally "we fed them milk :)"
lmao
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17582116

>>42825538
>no actual test on humans
lel try again meatcuck

>>42825538

>The quantity of E2 in whole milk, therefore, is low and is unlikely to pose a health risk for humans.

That's what the dairy industry researchers guessed, and they were wrong

>>42825560
Test what? Milk just doesn't even fucking have what you're suggesting it does. You want to know why their estrogen rose, assuming it actually did which we can't tell because they put not data in the abstract? Because when you feed someone a pint of whole milk a day on top of their regular diet they gain adipose tissue and thus increased endogenous estogen production.
Also women get synced menstral cycles when grouped together regardless of diet, so I don't know what the point of that experiment was even supposed to be

>>42825586
Look at the concentrations you dumbass. I was actually wrong, it was lower then I said before. The highest concentration they found was 20 nanograms per liter. Low dose sex hormone supplementation, by comparison, is 20 milligrams a day, one million times higher, and even that is ignoring estrogen's poor oral bioavilability.

>>42825650
>330pg
>0

lel keep rationalising dairyfag

>>42822935
>muuh correlation = causation
so you wanna play this game? vegans have a much higher rate of cancer and mental disorder than meat eaters so according to your genious logic this means that not eating enough meat gives you cancer and fucks up your brain

>>42825701
>E2 is the only form of estrogen
keep trying

>>42825735
umad brah

>>42824101
because that's not how statistics work

>>42825351
I live in Minnesota. Your point is false. Is meat rotting your brain?

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>[A self-selecting group of diet-conscious people] live, on average, six to ten years longer than [a totally generalized group that roughly encompasses the entire general population]
>[A totally generalized group that roughly encompasses the entire general population is] twice as likely as [a self-selecting group of diet-conscious people] to develop heart disease

>>42825724
Do you know what a pg is? It's a god damned picogram. Biologically irrelevant.
>>42825742
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20494161

>>42825735
except you just made these "facts" up

>>42825894

You think everyone who eats a vegetarian/vegan diet focuses on healthy eating and living? It's just as much of a mixed bag.

>>42825538

>>methadology is literally "we fed them milk :)"

How else would you do it?

>>42824263
Kek'd

>>42826101
the average vegetarian/vegan is extremely diet/health conscious compared to the general population

>>42826250

Based on what?

>>42822935
>Image
That's because vegetarians and vegans are more likely to be health conscious and watch what they eat, while the majority of meat eaters, which is the majority of people, are fucking unhealthy, not because eating meat itself is unhealthy reeeeeee fucking stupid vegans

>>42826133
A controlled diet including either milk or a synthetic "milk" (solution of lactose, casein (preferably recombinant), and triglicerides). Subjects would not know which group they were in.

>>42826267

>a group of people that obsesses about what they eat and closely monitors their health is more likely to eat healthier options
>prove it

what the fuck am i reading

>vegan junk food production and sales at an all time high
>average vegan health conscious

the animal products are literally making the omnis dumb as shit.

>>42826502
On average, vegans are much more active and much lower weight then the general population.
Additionally, vegan junk food sales do not mean those buying are vegan. Many retards think they can eat their way back to health by consuming foods they percieve as healthy on top of their regular shitty diets

>>42826478

>obsesses about what they eat and closely monitors their health

That requires proof. You're trying to take it as a given. There's nothing about vegetarians or vegans that require them to give a shit about their own health.

>>42826451

By doing that you could tease out whether the dairy hormones caused the drop in testosterone or if it was other aspects of the milk. Either way, milk lowered testosterone.

>>42826549
The most common reason people try veganism is a desire to improve their health

>>42826582

Okay, show that survey

>>42826577
Because the original experiment did not control even for caloric intake, their results are meaningless

>>42826593
http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/2011/aug/why-do-people-become-vegans-and-vegetarians-survey-says-–-all-above

>>42826623

>no sources

>>42826652
The fuck do you mean "no sources"? I literally linked to the university press release itself

>>42826652

Post the actual survey

>>42823191

Yes.

>>42825165
>0.7g of protein in 100g of cucumber
>24% protein
hmm

>>42826084
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0088278&type=printable
>Our results revealed that a
>vegetarian diet is related to a lower BMI and less frequent alcohol consumption. Moreover, our results showed that a
>vegetarian diet is associated with poorer health (higher incidences of cancer, allergies, and mental health disorders), a
>higher need for health care, and poorer quality of life
Only vegtards make facts up.

>>42826518

why keep repeating this bullshit? There was a big study- i think out of uk- that showed vegans on average get little fiber in their diets- meaning they're eating bullshit instead of fruit, veg, and whole grains- which are loaded with fiber. The whole fucking reason they lack any vitamins and minerals is because they're eating bullshit instead of fruit, veg, and grains. We know that because when we control for groups with higher fiber- the deficiencies disappear.

Stop repeating your broscience bullshit you meat eating faggot.

>>42827178
>vegetarians and not vegans
it's almost like you don't even know what you're talking about

>meatcucks so triggered ITT
Why is it that we can't get a single Vegan general thread on /fit/ without shitposters having to tell us how "good" meat is for them and shoving their murderous, cancerous, meat eating religion down our throats?

>>42827386
Yeah people don't seem to understand that a vegan diet simply means not eating meat, dairy and eggs. That's it. Note that there's nothing in there about what you should eat.

Some vegans eat healthier, some less healthy.

Here's what actually matters for you if you want to be healthy: The potential for a vegan diet to be healthy is higher than any non-vegan diet. Eat whole plants foods, with good variety, and have proper supplementation (especially b12). It's not very complicated. Cheap as fuck too

>>42827811
Supplementing your diet by definition means it's a deficient diet. Chicken fish and veg diet is most likely ideal diet for the non strength trainee normie .

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>>42826267
>>42826549
>>42826593
>>42826652

>Applies the absolute highest possible level of absurd anal-retentive rigor to a very clear statement of the obvious, up to and including just straight up handwaving away an academic study (presumably) for not providing comprehensive-enough documentation to satisfy you personally
>Requires literally nothing to accept the naked assertion of a memephographic at face value

Veggie/veganfags care enough about their diet to elect to go through the hassle of opting out of an entire class of universally-available food staples that everyone else takes eating for granted. Comparing them to the general populace of thoughtless consumers means absolutely nothing, especially in the context of a discussion on a health/fitness forum where it is already an accepted consensus that eating like the average schlub is bad.

>That requires proof

What requires proof is the proposition that it's *actually the fact that they eat meat* that's poisoning and killing the average normie, over and above the other factors (like healthy attitudes and mineral-rich water supplies) that famously long-lived populations (like Sardinia in Italy, where keeping livestock and consuming meat/dairy are common) seem to have in common.

The case can be persuasively made that the average normie eats *too much* meat and not enough veggies, but the case for "meat = poison, avoiding it is ALWAYS healthier" is extremely tenuous. It's just plain broscience.

>>42827698
>this study shows that if you cut off 1 leg you run less fast
>BUT I AM TALKING ABOUT CUTTING OFF BOTH LEGS, YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE THAT THIS WILL MAKE YOU RUN LESS FAST

>>42827875
>Supplementing your diet by definition means it's a deficient diet.
I'd rather have my "deficient" diet with no actual deficiencies than your "ideal" diet that gives me heart disease.

>>42828005
are you retarded? cheese and eggs are some of the worst animal foods imaginable, and they are the typical staples of vegetarians. grouping vegans and vegetarians together is absolutely retarded

>>42828111
Are you genuinely stupid? A vegan diet is a strict subset of a normal human's diet. Any nutrition choice a vegan can make can be also made by a normal human.

>>42824228
I don't drink milk

>>42828111
There is no evidence of heart disease by the diet I mentioned not that the bulk of studies point to meat being cause of heart disease

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>>42828120
> eggs
> worst animal food imaginable

You should really stop posting, you clearly know nothing about nutrition. Go eat your poorly-researched diet and remain a sickly-looking dyel.

>>42823267
>he doesn't eat 10kg of apples a day AND a whole roast boar
never gonna make it, brah....

Haven't read the thread, just chiming in. I've stopped eating all meat, only eat eggs. Lifts continue to improve, I've lost fat around my torso, and my farts don't smell anymore

>>42823666
>90 percent of vegans are women

This is the best possible argument against veganism and the vegans came up with it themselves.

If I started eating a vegan diet is it still ok if I finger my cat? He doesn't seem to mind so much anymore.

>>42828257
i don't think you know what an argument is

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>>42828120
lol the funniest part about your post is that you are serious

>>42828248

>my farts don't smell anymore

fartlet

>>42823788
Lentils, beans, tempeh, veggies, rice protein, peanut butter, nuts, etc

>>42828248

Do you eat cheese?

>>42823788

Nuts

>>42828354

Yeah a little

Posting in a troll thread

Hi trolls!

>>42825269
I am pretty sure that if an animal could speak to me I wouldn't eat it retard

>>42825269
I am pretty sure that if an animal could speak to me I wouldn't eat it retard

>>42828354
By the drum

>>42828424
Fuck double posted

>>42828412
i call bullshit

>>42824133
>rice
>1 cup = 4 grams of protein
Good luck on that

>>42822935

It has to do with simple percentages.

How many vegetarians/vegans have to eat healthy in order to be? 100%

How many meat eaters eat healthy? 25% maybe?

Simple math.

>>42829799
Simple math from a simple person.

>>42830407
>says the anon defending a correlation vs cause fallacy

>>42830459
yes let's ignore all the mechanistic evidence that supports this "fallacy"

"You can live to be a hundred if you give up all the things that make you want to live to be a hundred." -Woody Allen

>>42830535
>present no evidence in support of your position
>accuse people of ignoring all of the evidence in support of your position

>>42830578
where have you been the last couple of decades?

>>42830641
If there had ever been even a little bit of real evidence in support of veganism, vegan propaganda wouldn't rely on correlation vs cause fallacies.

>>42830675
>medical consensus for decades, supported by almost every health organization worldwide
>vegan propaganda
brainwashed by the meat jew, huh

>>42830709
>I can tell you're brainwashed because I read something on a blog that supports my worldview and you want evidence

>>42822935
kys faggot vegan

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>>42823015
"Rotten flesh" just makes it sound metal as fuck and makes me want to eat it more
Does that usually work on women and low test cuckolds? I wouldn't be surprised, anon

>>42830709

>medical consensus

(citation needed)

>>42831008
literally google it? are you here to have a pointless argument?

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>>42831058
I googled it and got this... What now?

>>42831093
looks like a solid reliable source of information, i guess you were right

>>42827889

>Veggie/veganfags care enough about their diet to elect to go through the hassle of opting out of an entire class of universally-available food staples

They may care about their diet for ethical/environmental reasons. Vegans buy cigarettes and liquor as well. You could just as well say health conscious people are more likely to eat meat due to the advertising of lean, especially chicken and fish, and the stereotype of vegetarians/vegans being malnourished.

>>42830985

>Serum free testosterone, however, did not differ significantly during the 6 wk dietary intervention periods and neither did [any other hormone]

Why isn't that highlighted? Did the man who made the image have some sort of agenda?

>>42827178

It's funny that you bring this cross-sectional survey based study up because it's actually the smaller of two studies that are based on the same data set. With a larger sample, they got the opposite results

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=28156945

The smaller one also had terrible matching

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/comment?id=10.1371/annotation/6efd4318-1591-4f09-9627-1eb36b6a4d70

> if you wanted to ‘match’ your subjects, why have such a wild difference in the groups? Table 1 shows a range from 15yo poor boys to 80yo middle class females. With only 330 in each group, this is hardly ‘matched’ by ‘certain socio-demographic characteristics’ and not compared to the 15K subjects study reflecting the general population. If you wanted to subgroup, you should have done so with each tier presented in Table 1 – ie vegetarianism impact on 15-19yo, low income only, females only, etc. Or you should have age-adjusted, multi-varient adjusted your prior paper. Instead you simply lowered your power and reran your prior analysis.

>>42822935

Man, I can hardly think of something that I enjoy more than raping animals. Oh, maybe leaving my lights on when I when I leave a room

Fuck nature. Unless if I am actually fucking it.

>>42831652
lel so funny amoral autist

>>42822935
vegans only live 6 years longer than people who eat 4,000 calories of refined corn sugar every day

sad

>>42823889
GET YOUR GENETICS OUT OF MY FRIDGE FUCK

>>42831564
>there is no harmful negative results from having a decreased total testosterone for a long period of time
Stay small, smalllet

>>42823725
Hey look, a racist

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>>42830641
>>42831058
>>42830709
>A vegan avoiding the questions and failing to provide evidence to back claims

Sounds like you prefer to rely on your best guess with the vague information at your disposal rather than denying ignorance and reading scientific and peer reviewed studies allowing yourself to become more informed of the pros and cons in your stance giving you the opportunity to acknowledge that no single eatting habit is not without its fallacies. Not only this but if you did pursure furthering your education through said means you could confidently decide how best to take care of your body which I assume is the primary reason you became a vegan, maybe even sharing your new profound knowledge with others who seem to be in the position you were in thus not only bettering yourself through your health but enlightening those around you through solid facts as well.


In other words: You've got a beef with being informed

>>42834245
Stop replying ffs. This entire thread is OP baiting people and stringing people along.

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Dunno, is this a good vegan dish? It's only animal that ate plants, so vegane and then there much plants on vegan meat.

Vegan beef best foof in world.

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Here some more vegan beef for my newfriends

>>42822935
Wait, there are "male" vegans? That's embarrassing

>>42835933
Nope. Only numale vegans exist

>>42823889
Get your genetics out of my fridge

Honest question for you vegan fags: why do you push veganism right out the gate instead of pushing vegetarianism first and veganism later? Im sure that most carnes who suddenly attempt a vegan diet fail within a week.

Vegetarianism is a lot easier and you still get great sources of protein like whey, egg whites, and greek yogurt.

Hell, if you're shilling plant based diets on 4chan, you'd probably have better luck convincing people tobe vegetarian since HITLER was a vegetarian than you would on the merits of not killing animals.

>>42836014
>why
Why do you push for a novice to do 3x5 squats on their first day instead of just telling them to do some pushups at first?
As much as I hate to be "that" vegan, vegetarianism is dishonest and you literally might as well eat meat.
>Vegan diet
There is no such thing as a "vegan diet". There is a "vegetarian diet", a "plant based diet", and "veganism" which is defined as a way of life/moral code
>vegetarianism is easier
Veganism is more right. I can't recommend cow milk in good conscience.
>you still get great sources of protein like whey, egg whites, and greek yogurt
That's real dishonest man, you can get all the protein you need from beans and peanuts and seitan and stuff, and there's even powders if you want to go even higher
>shilling
Nobody is selling you anything

>>42822935
>Raping cows
You do know that milk isn't cow jizz right anon?

>>42836128
lel meatcuck normie doesn't know cows need to be impregnated to produce milk

>>42836150
Well I've lived on a farm so the goy falling for cuck lies is you m8

>>42836093
>Nobody is selling you anything
Implying you need to sell a physical product in order to sell a religion.

>hurr not a religion.
>"veganism" which is defined as a way of life/moral code

>>42836165
lel are you seriously suggesting cows produce milk without being impregnated

I think you need to go back to biology class m8

>>42836183
Just because you fucked a cow once doesn't mean we all rape animals vegcuck

>>42836216
You obviously did on the farm buggery boi

>>42836226
>Admits raping animals
>Fails biology
Giggle. Vegans

animals are not people and don't deserve any rights besides those we grace them

>>42836241
>doesn't understand pregnancy is required to start lactation
lel meatcuck logic

>>42836263
sick argument m8

>>42836303
yes i think so. i posited a position, and i backed it up with reasoning and even an alternative clause.

>>42836303
But it is true.

Why would a being incapable of acting based upon morality, deserve moral consideration?

>>42836314
The only logical basis for morality is utilitarianism. i.e. happiness is good, suffering is bad. You would not torture a dog, nor would you torture a retard incapable of practicing morality

>>42836371
utilitarianism is a brainless void of reasoning and philosophy.
in no way did you try to define or set a metric for "suffering" or "happiness."
you just asserted a baseless platitude and hoped your opposition would have the same vague notion of what it means as you do
read a book, child.

>>42836287
Key word, start.
Unlike you animal lovers, some people handle animals like ANIMALS. If they breed, you know, since they're animals, you can milk them for fucking ages after they've calved

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>>42822935
Vegan bulking is easy, but how do I vegan cut without eating soy?

>>42836384
Lel, you are arbitrarily placing value on reciprocation of morality. If you cannot acknowledge that the best outcome is the one that provides the most happiness and the least suffering then you are retard

>>42836410
that poster isn't me

>>42836413
Explain why animal torture satisfies your contrived self serving philosophy then

>>42836432
>Explain why animal torture satisfies your contrived self serving philosophy then
that's not my position either.
if the only way you can attack my argument is by creating a straw man, perhaps you don't have any real defense.

>>42836459
What is your position then

>>42836166
Religion is founded on baseless beliefs. People usually become vegan after a lifetime of eating meat (religion) and being presented with the facts

>>42836469
the suffering of animals is completely inconsequential to my life unless it negatively affect me, or any person i care about, or any person who has material influence over me.

>>42836399
"Soy gives you manboobs" is a meme
also eat lots of greens and SEITAN

>>42836476
People saying veganism is a religion are just reciting their Jordan Peterson indoctrination bullshit

>>42836487
That isn't a position on the morality of animal torture. It's just the worthless statement that it doesn't affect you

>>42836476
>religion is the same as eating meat
i'd argue the opposite. people naturally consume meat and animals products, and only stop when some zealot (vegan) convinces them to
just like people don't naturally follow any particular religion until some zealot convinces them to

you're a practitioner of an ideology, buddy. get over it

>>42835949
>clarence is numale
kek nice opinion you dyel fuck

>>42836476
The vegan poster I responded to defined veganism as "as a way of life/moral code"

That is a religion.

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>>42836515
lrn2physiology big boi

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>>42836548

no it isn't

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>>42836554

>>42836515
Which one is a religion, really?
>Daily prayer (chicken in the meals, turkey in the sandwich, milk and eggs for breakfast)
>Sunday gathering (BBQ)
>Us vs them (we're better than the vegans, or the chinese that eat dog, or the muslims that don't eat pork)
>Is taught in schools
>When presented with facts, sperg out and say "I couldn't possibly be wrong, viguns r gey"
>>42836548
Yeah, that was me, I know what I wrote. Agnosticism is also a way of life, but it's even less of a religion than atheism, which is by definition a non-religion.
Veganism is simply the belief (trigger warning: religion) that animals deserve the right to not be wantonly killed. That's all.

>>42836514
>morality of animal torture
if a member of my community tortures animals for pleasure, that's a sign of psychopathic behavior and is worth stopping.
if a member of my community """"tortures"""" animals by eating them. so what? you're right, it doesn't affect me.
a similar argument can be made for people's pets and wild animals.

why should i ascribe emotional value to things that aren't a part of my life?
i'm not going to stop the suffering of rocks or trees, and they're practically as perceptive as beasts. my roomba is self-aware and a hell of a lot better at spacial reasoning than some chicken.

>>42836585
By that argument then confucianism isn't a religion.

Protip: It is

>42836554
not even worth giving you a (You)

>>42836603
>if i construct a straw man of my opponent, instead of attack his argument, SURELY he will concede
very silly post

>>42836603
So you are saying it is:
>a way of life
>a moral code
>has beliefs.

But isn't a religion.

Fucking please.

>>42836613
>why should i ascribe emotional value to things that aren't a part of my life?
veganism is not an emotional stance. you don't have to feel anything for animals to understand that needlessly causing their suffering is morally wrong

>>42836623
>straw man
I have no idea what you are referring to. Not ironic.

>>42836613
Lel @ amoral autist. By that logic you should not object to the torture of anyone that doesn't affect you.

>>42836631
>morally wrong
that is definitively an emotional stance.

>42836637
astoundingly myopic post
fuck off child. i'm not going to bother copying and pasting content from my other posts

>>42836626
Religions are based on dogma, veganism is based on facts and logic. Subtle difference, I know, but try to keep up.

>>42836626
If this is your definition of religion, then describing veganism as a religion is a compliment

amoral autism is not to be condoned

>>42836638
nope, that is incorrect sir

>>42836635
shoo shoo cultist
if you truly believe your "opposition" is like that, you're deluded.
if you don't, then you're shitposting
either way, don't reply to me anymore

>>42836666
Wasted quads

>>42823666
>women on average live longer and do not develop heart diseases at the frequency that men do

Fact: Heart disease is THE leading killer of women in almost all 'first world' countries

also

The frequency is also potentially higher as women suffer different symptoms to the exact same heart disease than men, masking the symptoms as dehydration, angina or stress.

>>42836664
actually, you're right. morality isn't an emotional position, but it is a position nonetheless.
that is to say, it may implement some logic in decisions made through it, but requires the assumption of some axiomatic ideals, eg "animal suffering is bad" rather than a purely logical approach.
the fact that you're taking a moral stance on this (as am i from your perspective) means we cannot get to an agreement on reason alone.
i won't believe what you're asserting, because it's baseless, and you won't believe what i'm reasoning because it contradicts your worldview.

>>42823889
FUCK GET YOUR GENETICS OUTA MY FRIDGE

>>42836727
>requires the assumption of some axiomatic ideals, eg "animal suffering is bad" rather than a purely logical approach.
Wrong, I'll explain in a sec
>i won't believe what you're asserting, because it's baseless
Okay, here goes.
Axioms required: "I believe killing humans for my enjoyment or benefit is wrong, even more if they never (intended to) hurt me"
(If you disagree with the above then indeed we won't ever agree, but in that case you're either a shitposter or a psycho)
How to become vegan in one step: "Name a trait present/absent in animals but not in humans, which if true of humans, would justify treating those humans the way we treat animals"
1) If you find a single trait,
1a) and it's not a logical mistake, you have singlehandedly destroyed veganism and I'll post a selfie with timestamp of me eating a pork kapsalon
1b) but it will probably be a logical mistake, so try another trait
2) If you don't, congratulations! You've just become vegan! Stock up on lentils and black beans and let me show you how deep the rabbit hole goes

>>42836801
trait: the participation in human society

>>42836814
Are sociopaths, inmates, hermites, ascetics, or self-exiled people like Varg ok to kill and eat?

>>42836825
no because they still participate in human society on a different level

>>42822935
>live six to ten years longer than meat-eaters
>implying i would like to live untill 80 or 90
i rather live my life without restrictions than living longer on the most boring years of anyones life

>>42836851
>inb4 why don't you just go on a cocaine hooker binge and die when you're 25?

>>42836838
Someone who lives by themselves in the mountain and is self sustained is participating in human society?
>>42836851
>the most boring years
If your life being interesting hinges on bacon, your life must be really fucking sad

>>42836885
yes. a 1 man society.

>>42823889
GET YOUR GENETICS OUT OF MY FRIDGE

I want to go vegan but whey protein is half priced relative to the vegan alternative.
Im a student and I need to save all I can.

I-its fine im vegetarian, r-right?
A-as long as I never eat meat and I don't consume any other diary I'm fine, r-right?

@42836894
I gave you too many (You)s

>>42836863
cocaine is for loosers that like to spend money to show off and condoms exists for a reason.
>>42836885
>hur dur he eats meats, so he must eat 1lb of bacon everyday
grow up dude... i eat meat since i grew teeth and i bet my ass that i'm as healthy as you if not healthier

I'll take that as a concession

>>42836929
don't let ideology run your life

>>42836929
>I want to go vegan
That's great!
>but whey protein is half priced relative to the vegan alternative.
That is a very legitimate reason to be "vegan" except for whey. I usually push for full vegan because a vegan diet has literally all the benefits (morals, environment, price), but if that is an issue for you, do consume whey.
However:
Do google "myprotein" or "bulk powders" first. Their pea protein is a lot cheaper than whey at a very slightly lower bioavilability (which is never an issue if you eat a varied diet but anyway), so you get a better deal for your buck
>I-its fine im vegetarian, r-right?
The more you do for the animals and the environment, the better. Whey is really low on the anti-vegan-totem-pole anyway, just don't use it as a slippery slope to fall into eggs and milk
>A-as long as I never eat meat and I don't consume any other diary I'm fine, r-right?
Finer than most, that's for sure
May the gains be with you anon

>>42836938
>grow up
>I'm healthier
lol ok
anyway, ok, I rephrase
"If your life being interesting hinges on not cutting out chicken, tuna, egg whites and milk, your life must be really fucking sad"
Better?

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I like eating meat.

>>42836993
get off your rocking-horse, champ.

>>42837005
>I like stealing wallets, so that makes it ok lololololol
Nigger-tier logic

>>42836801
>narrowing the argument two a binary
deceitful dogmatist detect
neck yourself, zealot

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>>42836979
>Look up Pea Protein Isolate
>Its slightly cheaper than whey
There gotta be a catch right?
Otherwise I am switching to pure vegan

>>42837036
Rice protein tastes the most aesthetic. Would recommend rice/pea protein blend for taste and amino acid profile

>>42837036
Well the "catch" is that you can even drink whey with water, pea is ok if flavored but usually it's unflavored and tastes like burnt rubber, so you have to mask it in a fruit smoothie (more preparation, slower etc). A banana or some berries & stevia though and you don't even notice it.
>>42837089
I agree with this (about taste and bioavailability) but rice is really expensive and @42837032
what

there is no value system in the world that can be broken down as
X has value because it falls into category Y
Z lacks value because it doesn't

you're either an imbecile or extremely dishonest to try an frame the vegan perspective like this

>>42833642

Free testosterone is the biologically active and useful testosterone. Total test is more likely to give you cancer than gains.

i can't believe i missed this
>>42837032

how embarassing for me

*Replying to (((poster No. 42837155)))*
Literally every single moral or not decision we make is as simple as this, what are you talking about
X person has market value because he has degrees or experience (Y), person Z does not
X person robs houses so he must go to prison Y, Z does not

>>42837019
I steal wallets but only so I can afford food to build shelters for orphan babies

>>42837218
Not the case with food. You only eat meat because you enjoy the taste and social acceptance.
There is not a single macro or micro nutrient inherently lacking from a vegan diet.

Dear Mrs. 42837203,
Value isn't binary. people can have a range of degrees and/or experiences in any combination that give them different values.
people without degrees/experiences still can have market value (youth or strength) old people won't live forever to do work, so young ones must be trained to take their place.
"robbing houses" isn't the only crime in existence and people can lose value for any number of transgressions.

don't be such a fucking simpleton. i can't belive i have to explain this to someone so "moral"

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My test says massage oil and I am scared as fuck to use it because of it,
I know they cant just put a correct label on it but god damn
What do

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>>42822935
Live to the age of 80 experiencing a larger more robust culinary taste while also being more sociable, accepting anything someone else worked hard making for you.
Or
Live to the age 90 eating food people unanimously agree tastes bad. forcing your own ideology into conversation and being a general douch bag. All in the name of "caring for nature" not realising no one cares.

Dear xir/zhe 42837269
YOU are assigning a binary (eat/don't eat) value to others, not me
I'm saying that there is no reason to eat animals, so I won't
You're trying to craft some weird meta-anti-argument out of thin air, with zero substance, just to one-up me. You don't know how to justify killing someone else for food, so you're just shitposting.
You literally keep saying "no u". You haven't said why killing someone else is wrong if they are human, but not wrong if they are non-human animals

>>42837275
call up your physician/whoever you got it from and make sure they sent you the correct product

>>42837337
>killing someone else for food
Shit why don't you tell that to a lion

to whom replied to me:
>YOU are assigning a binary (eat/don't eat) value to others
where?
>I'm saying that there is no reason to eat animals, so I won't
that's not true, you argued a moral position earlier itt with someone else
>You're trying to craft some weird meta-anti-argument out of thin air, with zero substance, just to one-up me
what?
>You haven't said why killing someone else is wrong if they are human, but not wrong if they are non-human animals
this isn't my argument. i'm only here to point out your dishonesty and reliance on logical fallacies

>>42837358
Please describe in which ways your lifestyle even remotely resembles that of a lion.
Also, lions need meat, you don't
Also lions don't know any better (they aren't sapient), you are (at least taxonomically)

>>42837377
>you are (at least toxonomically)
such religious fervor! your god would be proud

42837364
>where
If you eat animals, you are assigning an arbitrary value of "eat" to pigs, cows, etc and "not eat" to "cats, dogs, humans, etc"
>that's not true, you argued a moral position earlier itt with someone else
My entire position is that "there is no difference between humans and animals that justifies eating animals", I don't know what you're talking about
>what
You literally admit it 2 lines below
> i'm only here to point out your dishonesty and reliance on logical fallacies
Absolutely no dishonesty or logical fallacy anywhere. If there is, quote it and specifically point out the hypocritical/fallacious sentence

>>42837129
I only pay $20/kg for rice protein

>>42837417
>"there is no difference between humans and animals that justifies eating animals"
What a fucking retarded position to hold.

If humans are no different than animals, and animals eat animals.... Why would we need to justify anything?

For this premise humans must be superior to animals, else there is no justification for us to not eat them as they eat each other.

So now that we have established humans are better than animals, explain how our subjugation and consumption is not justified.

>If you eat animals, you are assigning an arbitrary value of "eat" to pigs, cows, etc and "not eat" to "cats, dogs, humans, etc"
i did not, and do not.
>You literally admit it 2 lines below
pointing out what is and isn't an argument isn't a "meta-argument." it's just following the rules of logic. P => Q etc.
>Absolutely no dishonesty or logical fallacy anywhere. If there is, quote it and specifically point out the hypocritical/fallacious sentence
see my above post. your position does not follow logically

>>42837377
I am a energetic animal that requires the most energy and nutrition in a easier and more compact form. Please describe in which ways your lifestyle even remotely resembles that of a sheep.

Also here's something that will piss you off:
Like joe rogan (my hero) I am part of the kill what you eat movement. So every so often I go out and kill my own food. I skin my own food. I guy my own food. And I butcher my own food. I am the lion you quivering pussy.

>>42837463
Gut*

>>42837463

>energetic animal
>lion

They sleep like 20 hours a day and male lions don't even hunt

>>42824095
Is that a ftm?

>>42837463
>energetic
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
not even close man, no
>I need compact energy and nutrition
If these are your criteria, nuts, soy (milk, tofu, tempeh) and peanuts all > meat
>sheep
Sheep do not eat cooked beans or peanut butter, they only eat greens. I barely eat greens once a week. I never claimed to be or eat like a ship
>will piss you off
what, why would anything in a mongolian basket weaving forum piss me off
>joe rogan is my hero
go back to r#ddit
>I kill my own food
I used to hunt and spearfish too until a year ago, but I changed my mind
>>42837458
whatever man you're too dense gn
have a you on the house
>>42837453
>If humans are no different than animals
I didn't say we aren't different or superior, I specifically said that there isn't a difference that justifies eating them
>animals eat animals.... Why would we need to justify anything?
Because we know better
By your logic (might makes right), we should have a world war and have the strongest nation subdue all the others. I mean why not?
>For this premise humans must be superior to animals, else there is no justification for us to not eat them as they eat each other.
They also walk around naked, kill each other's babies and sniff each other's butts, are deer and dogs seriously your moral compasses?
>So now that we have established humans are better than animals
Never said we aren't
>explain how our subjugation and consumption is not justified.
Google "might makes right fallacy"
>>42837440
Source? Protein% in a bag?

>>42837632
http://www.bulknutrients.com.au/products/100-organic-brown-rice-protein.html

$100 for 5kg

Also lel naturalistic + might makes right fallacy is classic meatard logic

So I'm thinking of actually trying to go vegan and eat better but how do I do it?

>>42837453
He didn't say no difference, he said no difference that justifies eating them. lrn2nuance meatcuck

>>42837664
>http://www.bulknutrients.com.au/products/100-organic-brown-rice-protein.html
Sweet, thanks

>>42837242
>There is not a single macro or micro nutrient inherently lacking from a vegan diet.
I could get a job and not steal wallets, but I don't like doing that.

the wallets are for the babbies
do you hate babbies?

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>>42837632

>I barely eat greens once a week

>>42837684
Design a meal plan with the same macros AND MICROS as your current diet. Then stick to that for a while

Good luck brah

>42837632
>imagine being so far up your own ass, the only way you can argue is to pretend your opponent holds a position that you find weak, and STILL you can't argue against it

>>42837699
There's also an 'earth protein' blend that's pea/rice protein already mixed

>>42837684
What exactly do you want? I'm here to help, ask away!
@42837713
epic
>>42837734
eh maybe more, but definitely not every single day
>42837743
>imagine lying for the sake of lying
>>42837748
Thanks for the heads up man

>imagine
tell me what it's liek

>>42822935
All you fags are taking this bait. These cuck vegan generals would go off page 10 within an hour if you just saged or didn't post. You're helping the fucking vegans you idiots.

Also great bait there OP, it's lasted longer than I expected.

>>42837896
OP is a falseflagger, not a vegan. This should be obvious by the difference between the first few posts and the last posts

>>42822935
You know why nobody likes or listens to you? Because you call them rapists, torturers, and killers. Retard tier marketing campaign, OP.

>>42837905
low quality shitposts v anti-intellectual evangelism

>>42837934
>anti-intellectual evangelism
k

>>42837896
lel @ factual information is bait

>>42837962
lel at idolatry

>>42823460
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xzXOzYhRTM
>chad vegans

>>42838099
https://youtu.be/m_NbWYgEs3w

World's chaddest Chad is vegan

Yeah here's the new thread guys
>>42838164
>>42838164
>>42838164

>>42838164
>>42838164
>>42838164

>>42838164
>>42838164
>>42838164

>>42837463
>Joe Rogan (my hero)

hahahahahaha

>>42836554
Makes you think, don't it?

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I need to replace these. I eat like 4 a week and I don't want colon cancer. they are 3 dollars.

Alright vegan cucks here is your chance. Outline me a vegan diet that
1) has AT least 190g protein (none from powders)
2) doesn't "replace" non vegan foods (fake cheese) only exception is vegan pattys because those taste good.
3) has 2400-2500 calories, while still meeting 1 and 2.

I'm never not going to eat meat but I want to see how feasible it is maybe cutting out meat for a day or two a week

>>42823691
>proven
>http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/meat-and-cancer/
>https://chriskresser.com/red-meat-cancer-again-will-it-ever-stop/
>http://www.mensfitness.com/nutrition/what-to-eat/meat-cancer-bacon-who-report-mens-fitness-health
>https://rawfoodsos.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/minger_formal_response2.pdf
>https://deniseminger.com/2010/08/06/final-china-study-response-html/
>https://deniseminger.com/2010/08/03/the-china-study-a-formal-analysis-and-response/
>https://deniseminger.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
>http://www.foodrenegade.com/the-china-study-discredited/
>https://deniseminger.com/the-china-study/
>https://www.westonaprice.org/our-blogs/the-curious-case-of-campbells-rats-does-protein-deficiency-prevent-cancer/
>https://www.westonaprice.org/our-blogs/taking-a-trip-down-memory-lane-fishing-for-our-good-friend-glutathione-in-the-waters-of-the-memory-hole-how-t-colin-campbell-helped-prove-that-protein-protects-us
>>http://www.saragottfriedmd.com/does-meat-cause-cancer-revisiting-the-meat-igf-1-and-cancer-connection/
>https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/2qxnro/red_meat_triggers_toxic_immune_reaction_which/cnai2od/
>http://caloriesproper.com/red-meat-wont-kill-you-it-will-make-you-stronger/

>>42837242
>There is not a single macro or micro nutrient inherently lacking from a vegan diet.
>https://authoritynutrition.com/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plants/
>https://authoritynutrition.com/5-muscle-nutrients-in-animal-foods/
>https://authoritynutrition.com/5-brain-nutrients-in-meat-fish-eggs/
>https://dailyhealthpost.com/4-brain-nutrients-found-only-in-meat-fish-and-eggs-not-plants/

>>42836476
>>42836500
>>42836585
>>42836648
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-best.html
>http://mentalfloss.com/article/32042/corn-flakes-were-invented-part-anti-masturbation-crusade
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-are-as.html

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>>42824228
Enjoy your dietary memes
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/01/true-or-false-dairy-is-toxic-hormone.html
Also doubt the"milk=prostate cancer" entirely especially when in the article it says:
>Estrone and prostate cancer risk in men: As far as the estrone levels Maruyama et al. measured in their 2010 study are concerned it is very difficult to tell, whether or not the 26% increase in E2 levels is or isn't a problem.
>The estrone values in the Maruyama study are unrealistic. With a normal range of <68pg/ml the subjects in the Maruyama study would have elevated E1 levels to begin with, if the measurement was correct.
>difficult to tell
>unrealistic
and
>What remains to be seen, though, is whether future epidemiological evidence will support or refute the currently heralded hypothesis that dairy consumption increases prostate cancer risk and whether we will be able to identify more feasible explanations for this relations than those that are implicated by the results Maruyama et al. present in their 2010 study.
>http://sciencedrivennutrition.com/hormones-milk/
>http://suppversity.blogspot.de/2014/05/bcfa-gut-health-immunity-cancer.html
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/12/dairy-good-bad-or-ugly-latest-studies.html
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2016/07/cheese-your-health-cvd-cancer-metabolic.html
>http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.2011.10719992
>>42828137
Why

>>42840839
I wanted to see this too. Ends up skipping veg to get more proteins, expensive, and it would get boring af eating so many lentils/beans. Yoghurt/eggs/scoops would help.

1 beyond meat patty + 1 cup lima beans + 1 cup peas (or 1 patty + 1 cup tofu scramble + 1-2 toast or 1-2 cups fruit/veg)
1.5 cups black bean pasta + 4 Quorn fillets + mushrooms + salad leaves
2 cups lentils + 1 cup quinoa + broccoli
1 banana + 1 brazil nut + 3 tbsp some seeds/nut butter + 1 cup almond milk

~ totals: 195g P, 300 C, 60-65 F

>>42841478
There's gotta be a way to get protein besides beans/ veggie patties/tofu, maybe more nuts? I feel like tofu is the processed version of of meat to vegans.

>>42823889
get your genetics out of my fridge

>>42837929
>If only you wouldn't call us rapists, torturers, and killers we would stop raping, torturing, and killing.

>>42840839
No human being should eat like like that.

FWIW it's not possible to meet your requirements on a no-supplement vegan diet.

>>42823788
pea protein shakes

>>42823889
Get your genetics out of my fridge

>>42822935
Diamonds are fleeting
Good rapemurder is forever

>>42842050
Then how do you expect me to stop eating meat if it's the best way to meet my protein needs? I couldn't care less about killing animals. I'm interested in supposed health benefits like lowered cholesterol and LDL in an optimal range.