When did you realise the only way to get bigger naturally is

Actually you just went from 1 extreme to the other and still have it wrong.


You need both volume and strength, which is why PPL works so well. You can your strength sets at the start of the routine, and do all your fluff volume work at the end of the hard sets.

You build strength training for hypertrophy unless you're doing it wrong.

>>42808967
Exactly, you're just doing a less efficient powerlifting routine. Fluff work does nothing.

>>42809054
>fluff work does nothing

It actually does. It adds volume to the routine, volume that has very easy recovery.

>>42809411
volume doesnt make your muscles grow bigger unless youre on roids, theres no reason to. If you can get a pump its too light weight.

>>42809054
>>42809677
maybe it doesn't work for you, but have you considered that not everyone has shitty incel non-responder genetics? maybe bodybuilding just isn't for you - stay small for life

>>42808967
>You can your strength sets at the start of the routine, and do all your fluff volume work at the end of the hard sets.
Not shitting on PPL, but the above can be said about literally any sort of split.

>>42809411
True.

>>42809677
You're sort of right, but not completely. All the volume in the World won't make a difference if you're not achieving progressive overload. And if you do too much volume this becomes harder.
Still, as long as you can keep pushing up your numbers, the routine with higher volume wins.

On a more bro-sciency note, I think many people do junk volume with no real effort. I honestly don't think such extra sets make much of an impact. Yeah, you don't have to go to failure, but you need to at least be mentally present.

>>42808947
People who don't understand how progressive overload and muscle fiber types work should just follow one of the goddamn beginner routines to get a strength base and then switch to an intermediate hybrid routine.

All of those cunts on here who try to defend their workout programs like they are football teams on here are the reason why newbs like OP get confused and do retarded workouts.

>>42809736
>All of those cunts on here who try to defend their workout programs like they are football teams on here are the reason why newbs like OP get confused
This is so true. Why the fuck are people emotionally attached to this or that way to train?

>>42809736
hell as a noob you don't even need a proper routine, just eat enough and do compounds and you'll get more enough progression as you learn the lifts. But no, virgins like OP need guidance through everything because they just can't eat enough and feel justified to theorycraft a routine like it is some magic entity. A legit 500 kcal surplus and you can get close to SS planned progression increments on a 3x8 scheme

>>42809743
AUTISM
UTISMA
TISMAU
ISMAUT
SMAUTI
MAUTIS

>>42809744
>hell as a noob you don't even need a proper routine, just eat enough and do compounds

If you don't give them a routine then they end up not training some muscle groups at all or they do meme exercises that don't do anything or lead to snapcity.

>>42809763
ah right, just give them all exercises listed in raw SS + pullups -power cleans (because they will do those wrong) and they can't do much harm though

>>42809772
>-power cleans (because they will do those wrong)
Gonna highjack this thread and say that, for the average guy, power cleans are easier to learn to do properly than squats are.

>>42809736
>to get a strength base

One of the most retarded things people say on here. Theres no reason why being stronger will make your muscles hypertrophy as soon as you do a brosplit lmao. It doesn't make any difference.

>>42809791
I've never understood that either.
Although I will say that it makes sense to practice some of the basic exercises with a high frequency as a beginner, simply because you can. It'll be time well spent even if you somehow fail to build any muscle.

>>42809791
>as soon as
who claims this?

I thought it was that heavier weight leads to a greater extent of hypertrphy

>>42809807
It's not the total amount of weight that makes a difference. It's using more weight than you used to use.

Twin A starts doing a hypertrophy focused routine with a max bench of 70kg. Over the next 3 months, he increases his bench to 90kg.

Twin B starts doing a hypertrophy focused routine with a max bench of 100kg. Over the next 3 months, he fails to increase his bench.

Twin A will see great hypertrophy gains, twin B will see nothing (although he might be bigger to begin with)

>>42809791
>high volume at low weight is just as effective as high volume at high weight
Nope. You will get greater results if you do high volume training with high resistance.

As you may know strength is correlated with muscle size. A beginner will make huge gains by simply concentrating on strength. Only once he reaches a point where increasing resistance becomes harder and harder it starts to make sense to include more hypertrophy.

>>42809825
Twin B will make more gains than A if he starts doing more volume once he stalls at 100kg.

>>42809825
in this case twin A might just be getting accustomed to the lift too, so CNS gains might be bigger than actual gains. I think the progressive overload can be described well by volume multiplication tables. High-rep allows for big volume stacking, adding progressively more volume = more gains

So if i did SS until stalling multiple times and switched to a PHUL am i doing it right? I've been noticing more muscle definition since switching.

>>42809843
Yeah. Isn't that what they tell you to do in SS guides?

>>42809833
to be fair, strength gains are correlated to size gains only at elite levels, i.e. someone that has "maxed" out the CNS in terms of that lift. The thing is, prior to intermediate-advanced numbers your CNS gains prevail, which is why you won't be big after finishing a beginner strength routine

>>42809854
Someone who finishes a beginner strength routine (lets say 1-2 years) will be bigger than someone who started out with a low resistance hypertrophy based routine and did that for the same amount of time. When people laugh and point to an unaesthetic SS guy, then they forget that it only took him a year or so to get there. The other guy has to train 5 years until he even looks like he isn't a dyel.

On the long run the guy who did a strength based beginner routine will make more gains because once he switches to the advanced routine he has a higher resistance he can work with for his hypertrophy training.

>>42809885
generalizations, that in my experience aren't true in general. Now, I am assuming that the "hypertrophy" guy is still achieving progressive overload and doesn't only do 10+ rep sets, that would be retarded. And in case he is achieving progressive overload + proper diet, he'll most likely be bigger than the guy on SS.

I can't even begin to describe how much amusement I get from these threads as a medfag.

>>42809914
What does medfag have to do with anything you don't get taught fuck all about exercise or nutrition science since that is delegated to physiotherapists and dieticians.
What's with you med students and being smug? You guys are bring me coffee and a bacon roll tier in the hospital hierarchy.

>>42809791
>3x10 bench at 60kg is as much volume as 3x10 bench at 100kg

>>42809912
>in my experience
In my experience guys who do some hypertrophy split with low resistance take forever until they even get any visible muscles. And people tell me again and again that they wished that they would have just gone for strength in the beginning.

Increasing resistance is also a kind of progressive overload. So saying you just need to achieve progressive overload and magic happens is wrong.

And the effect of volume based hypertrophy gets less and less effective the higher the reps get. You will only see very minor gains if you do 150 push ups instead of 100.

>>42809956
its the same volume you spaz theyre equal intensity

>>42809943
In the hospital hierarchy I am one under the guy running the department (orthopedic).
I know that I know more on all these topics, I don't even need you to know it.

Get some enjoyment out of knowing that somewhere out there is a guy doing snap city correction procedures while browsing this Taiwanese play dough collection forum in his spare time.

>>42809956
3x10x100 > 3x10x60

>>42809789
wrong

>>42809983
So you're a consultant orthopod then? So you're 30+ and still on fit?

>>42809914
So then tell us how its done and end the discussion.

>>42810028
Correct, 32 as of last month.

File: A+very+rare+pepe+i+don+t+remember+where+i+got_d0e31d_6225728.jpg (53KB, 500x580px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 500x580px

>>42809677
>volume doesnt make your muscles grow bigger unless youre on roids

>If you can get a pump its too light weight.

dyels with no training experience giving advice about weight lifting. It never gets old. Some hilarious shit said here everyday.

>>42810101
You must be in a lucky position where you can afford to waste your precious free time on fit out of all places.

Now, where do Orthopods get taught about strength training or hypertrophy?

>>42810125
It is Sunday, there is fuck all to do on a Sunday unless I get called in for an emergency.

Furthermore you better hope your ortho knows the finer details of the musculoskeletal system, if not you are being treated by a grade A dunce.

being natty is a meme anyway

started my first cycle yesterday

>>42810155
Knowing the finer details doesn't entail knowledge of a person strength training.
Some dunce like rippletits knows more about strength training than 100 orthopods in a room.

>>42810155
Bestow upon us thine wisdom oh mighty accredited paper man and relinquish us of our ignorance.

Pray tell is the good word:

A lot of weight is just asking for short and long term injuries in the joints?

And an appropriate weight at however many repetitions one can feasibly muster without risking injury doth be optimal be it not?

>>42811236
>>42810155
Yes please mister orthopautist, is OP right? You seem to be implying he is wrong. I've been doing 5x5 compound barbell exercises

>>42808947
>>42808947
>is too retarded to keep track of his progress and add weight every workout during his split
>WHY DONT I GAIN MUSCLE ??? FUCKING BRO SCIENCE

>>42808947
>When did you realise the only way to get bigger naturally is to get stronger? I've wasted so much time doing "hypertrophy" brosplit routines not knowing that they're meant for roidheads.
when I read the sticky