THE KETO FAGS WILL OUT LIVE THE VEGANS

>>42795977
The vegans fear the β-hydroxybutyrate

>>42795977

I want to stick my dick in that butter while I stuff my every orifice with butter

>>42795977

damn its almost like humans evolved to metabolize high energy foods really made me think

>>42796262
elaborate

bupgers prevent kill

>>42796297
>https://www.amazon.com/Art-Science-Low-Carbohydrate-Performance/dp/0983490716/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1504926933&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=the+art+and+science+of+low+carbohydrat

β-hydroxybutyrate are the main ketone bodies used by cells to produce ATP.

No militant vegans yet. Should I start roleplaying?

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>Woah dude processed sugar is bad? no way.
Did u even read the article?

>>42796811
The vast majority of vegans and first time vegans over consume sugars and breads and fruits and junk.
Why?
The satiety from meat and fat is gone.

>>42795977

It's such a stupidly misrepresented study

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/diet-and-health-puzzling-past-paradox-to-pure-understanding_us_59a81d10e4b02498834a8f27

The study was basically about the diet differences between rich people and poor people. Richer people can afford fatty foods, poorer people rely on white rice and other cheap processed foods. Poorer people have a much higher rate of death from all causes than more well-off people, separate from whatever effect their diet has.

>>42797021
What are you talking about? fatty foods are cheap as shit. You can bulk buy fatty frozen meat for dirt cheap and you can easily live on $45 a week. The expensive shit is avocado and cheese which is optional.

>>42797068

> fatty foods are cheap as shit.

You live in America

but fat is 35%~ of my calories

>>42797076
Do the rich who eat fatty foods on the regular have higher mortality?
Because people in other countries who have to subsist on mostly vegan and fished foods and are active out of necessity tend to live very well and long.

I think modern strict veganism is a ploy and people would die from it more then people who eat a relatively clean omni diet.

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>>42797021
>huffington post

This isn't /r/cuckold

Piss off.

>>42797114

>Do the rich who eat fatty foods on the regular have higher mortality?

They tend not to because their lives are less stressful and they can afford medical care. The poor live in squalor and die more of infectuous disease or work-related accidents. The countries they looked at included places like Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. The differences in what they eat are less important than why they eat it.

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>>42795977
I was trying to find some silly-billy study proving that low fat diets led to longer life, but I kept finding the same study you found.

OP, you serious? That shit study has been debunked several times already.

>>42795977
Not that I like vegans or anything, but I don't think most of them eat low-fat. They still eat nuts and include oil in their diet.

>>42795977
http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-study-of-replacing-fat-with-high-carb-intake/

>>42797178
There's no such thing as easy stress eating in the nations you mention anon.
But I would like to see a real fair study done on healthy vegans healthy keto people and healthy omnivores who are all living relatively healthy stress free lives and exercise frequently.

Not this bullshit where they compare vegans who have a regimented healthy active life and the average obese fast food eater.

>>42796888
>implying chad does some autistic diet like keto
>implying chad doesn't live off pizza, wings, and beer all while having a better body than you ketofags could ever hope to attain

>>42797537

>There's no such thing as easy stress eating in the nations you mention anon.

Obviously some people have it harder than others. If you're so poor that the only food you can afford is a sack of rice after working an 18 hour day harvesting cocao while your wife is dying of malaria at home and your children are malnourished with stunted growth, you've got more stress than the guy who has enough money to buy adequate food and other comforts.

In India for example, one of the countries used in the study, people with the least amount of assets had a 300% increased mortality risk compared to those with the highest http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016844

>But I would like to see a real fair study done on healthy vegans healthy keto people and healthy omnivores who are all living relatively healthy stress free lives and exercise frequently.

This is probably the closest we have to that.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073139/

>Not this bullshit where they compare vegans who have a regimented healthy active life and the average obese fast food eater.

This doesn't really happen either. I don't know where people get that idea. For one, you'd never see people not matched for at the very least BMI and physical activity in a study, and there's nothing about a vegan diet that requires people to be physically active or even to eat healthy foods. People who are active or interested in healthy eating are more likely to eat something more lauded like the mediterranean diet, and eat fish and chicken.

>>42797756
>Obviously some people have it harder than others. If you're so poor that the only food you can afford is a sack of rice after working an 18 hour day harvesting cocao while your wife is dying of malaria at home and your children are malnourished with stunted growth, you've got more stress than the guy who has enough money to buy adequate food and other comforts.
>In India for example, one of the countries used in the study, people with the least amount of assets had a 300% increased mortality risk compared to those with the highest http://journals.plos.org/plosone

That doesn't actually mean anything. They have less access to meat and are more active then people who do have meat.
They do not live longer and the people who have access to meat don't live too much better in india anyway. Unless you're pretending that the top 1% means fucking anything there and not including people who simply have more access to meat and have an american equivalent middle class life.

>This is probably the closest we have to that.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073139/
Inflamatory title and it uses the adventists study.
The adventists who've been outed as lying about the relative health of the members of their organization for long as fuck years.
This not, in any way, what I ask for.

>This doesn't really happen either.
Anon, this is exactly what happens when veganism is compared to omnivorous eating. There has never been an even half decent controlled study done ever.

>>42795977
...so just eat vegan, but don't be a 90/5/5 or 80/10/10 fruity hippy, chow down that tempeh burger and the peanut butter. Got it
>>42797114
>people would die from it more then people who eat a relatively clean omni diet.
>Idiots who can't put 2 and 2 together will die
About time, I'd like the world to drop a 20-40% in population

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>>42795977
>be me
>start on pic related
>the moment you forgo vegetable oils
>and increase meats
>energy suddenly spikes
>have trouble sleeping because of so much energy
>have to start meditative sessions and prepare to deal with increased energy levels over longer term just to be able to sleep again.

whew, very neat.

>>42797788

>They have less access to meat and are more active then people who do have meat.

I don't know what you're thinking of as activity, but the poor in Bangladesh are not going on leisurely jogs. The study wasn't even necessarily on diet-related outcomes. All-cause mortality can be anything from a heart attack to dying of AIDS. Any way you want to look at it, being poor is itself a major risk factor for death from all causes, and animal foods and fat are strongly associated with increased wealth.

>Inflamatory title and it uses the adventists study.
>The adventists who've been outed as lying about the relative health of the members of their organization for long as fuck years.

Any info on that you can send my way?

>Anon, this is exactly what happens when veganism is compared to omnivorous eating. There has never been an even half decent controlled study done ever.

Show me one study about anything diet-related that doesn't match participants by BMI and physical activity.

>>42797845

>cringe thread

>>42797543
Chad just naturally ends up with keto, he doesn't need to watch what he eats. His instincts take care of it.

>>42797788

>the title offends me
>the study is therefore wrong

>>42797897
>pizza
>keto
pick one

>>42796321
>bupgers

fuckin kekd

>>42795977
This research paper that you speak of, was released in 2015. The researcher himself never said that low fat diet will kill you. What he said is, that "Low fat diet is not particularly effective in fighting CVD because it is difficult to sustain". What you did, or whoever wrote this article, is took the first part of the sentence and thought: Since "low fat diet is bad for CVD" then that means that "High-fat diet is good for CVD"! And since milk,diary,meat have loads of fats - "milk, meat, cheese are therefore good". The fact that CVD is a disease that can kill you - there comes the final statement:

"Low fat diet can kill you"

This is called data/info manipulation. And this article you wrote is not genuine and truthful to the original paper.

Overall there is better research on CVD that is able to proof how much a human can benefit from a high carb low fat diet.

>>42796559
We must be outside their business hours. Give the v*gans some time to sign in at VIDF headquarters

>>42798872
You're dumb. The research this refers to was published last month on THE LANCET.

>>42795977
>i didn't read the study

>>42795977
bro... im on keto myself. all i can say is it works for me but it doesnt mean it works for you. veganism doesnt work for me cause its malnutrition but it works for a few others. my problem is that vegans mostly spread lies and false facts to underminde their bullshit ideology. keto is red pilled nutrition, your body is much more effective while being in ketosis

>>42798872
>>42799835
>i didn't read the study
>Contrary to popular belief, consuming a higher amount of fat (about 35 per cent of energy) is associated with a lower risk of death compared to lower intakes. However, a diet high in carbohydrates (of more than 60 per cent of energy) is related to higher mortality, although not with the risk of cardiovascular disease.
>The research on dietary fats found that they are not associated with major cardiovascular disease, but higher fat consumption was associated with lower mortality; this was seen for all major types of fats (saturated fats, polyunsaturated fats and mono unsaturated fats), with saturated fats being associated with lower stroke risk. The researchers point out that, while this may appear surprising to some, these new results are consistent with several observational studies and randomized controlled trials conducted in Western countries during the last two decades.
>The large new study, when viewed in the context of most previous studies, questions the conventional beliefs about dietary fats and clinical outcomes, says Mahshid Dehghan, the lead author for the study and an investigator at PHRI.
>>42795977
>https://authoritynutrition.com/it-aint-the-fat-people/
>https://authoritynutrition.com/top-8-reasons-not-to-fear-saturated-fats/
>https://authoritynutrition.com/saturated-fat-good-or-bad/
>https://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy/
>http://www.uib.no/en/node/103172
>http://www.healthline.com/nutrition/5-studies-on-saturated-fat
>http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285
>http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.1.6291
>http://suppversity.blogspot.de/2014/05/bcfa-gut-health-immunity-cancer.html
>https://breakingmuscle.com/fuel/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health

>>42797021
>Richer people can afford fatty foods
over here high grade olive oil is about twice as expensive as the cheapest pasta per calorie.
Do you live in some third world country where fat doesn't exist or what?

>>42797845
>avoid GMO
good goy

>>42801120

>over here
>Do you live in some third world country

So you have no idea what the study was about.

>>42797021
We investigated the influence of socioeconomic status and poverty using four different measures of socioeconomic status to adjust in the analysis of the associations between different nutrient intakes and total mortality and cardiovascular disease events. These were household wealth, household income, education, and economic level of the country subdivided by urban and rural locations. When we included education in the models, the estimates of association were robust. Additionally, we adjusted for study centre as a random effect which takes into account socioeconomic factors and clustering by community. When we reanalysed the data using household income, household wealth, or economic level of the country our results were unchanged

>>42801482
>>42801502


>When it comes to assessing diet, we can statistically adjust mortality rates for income and education between urban Canadians and whose lifestyles are somewhat similar, but not between the rich and poor in Asia or an African country, or even worse, statistical adjustments when lumping Canadians with the rich and poor of a place like India.

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>>42797845
>Avoid legumes

>>42801540
Wow the opinion of a vegan orthopedic surgeon who didn't even have access to the dataset versus hundreds of researchers who did the study and the entire lancet editorial board

It's amazing how far vegans will go to defend the epidemiology they like and dismiss anything else they disagree with

>>42801627

Statistical adjustment isn't magic. There are limits to what you can do with it. The scope was so broad in this study with the range of countries they used, it would be impossible to do accurately, especially in cross-country comparisons.

>>42801695
>the limit goes all the way to my bias and not one step further
k

>>42801719

Realize that we're talking about a study including countries like Zimbabwe, Malaysia, and Iran. The differences between the richer and poorer are not small enough to be adjusted out that simply.

You should read this article >>42797021

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>>42795977
People love hearing good news about their bad habits.

First world people live longer than third world people.

Such a news flash.

This data is trash.

>>42801761
The hundreds of researchers who did the study and the Lancet evidently disagree
A Katz op-ed which would invariably be citing and defending the study if the results conformed to his alternative medicine organization's beliefs is not an argument

>>42801923

It doesn't matter how many researchers were involved in data collecting, and the editors of The Lancet or any other journal aren't required or expected to make sure a paper adjusts its data in the best possible way.

To ignore the context of the associations and use this paper to say "ketofags live longer" would be extremely dishonest.

>>42802102
and the overwhelming data says they do not. this was paid for by Meat Shills anyways. all kinds of headline grabbing jewry here.

>>42797021

>To be quite clear about it, there was no adjustment for, or even mention of, access to a hospital or medical care in the PURE papers.
>The researchers examined the replacement of carbohydrate as percentage of calories, with fat as a percentage of calories, but did not report variation in total calories, or the degree to which very high intake of carbohydrate as a percent of that total correlated with very low calorie intake overall, and malnutrition. Looking across the several papers, it is apparent that correlation is strong. There was also no examination of what replacing one kind of fat with another did to health outcomes, a kind of dietary variation that might have more to do with choice, and less to do with socioeconomics.

>Also, by way of reminder: the HIGHEST levels of both total fat, and saturated fat intake observed in the PURE data were still LOWER then prevailing levels in the U.S. and much of Europe, providing no basis whatsoever for headlines encouraging people already exceeding these levels to add yet more meat, butter, and cheese to their diets

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>he doesnt down a gallon of extra fatty quark with a jar of hazelnut spread every morning
you rpobably think this is a joke but i actually do this

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>>42797845
>believing humans are even supposed to eat animal products
>not realizing that if humans were suppoed to eat meat, then we'd have carnivorous instincts and eat the fur, organs, and entirety of the animal.
>not realizing that consuming another animal's milk is completely unnatural and the process speaks for itself

>>42802262
i like my beans, potatoes and bread. :)

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>b-b-but we need fat from animal products !!!
non-vegans BTFO

>>42802307

I'm sympathetic to you but images like that don't help your message

>>42802262
>believing humans are even supposed to eat animal products
>not realizing that if humans were suppoed to eat meat, then we'd have carnivorous instincts and eat the fur, organs, and entirety of the animal.
>What are organ meats
Also we do and have. And.
>http://time.com/4252373/meat-eating-veganism-evolution/
>https://www.livescience.com/23671-eating-meat-made-us-human.html
>https://www.livescience.com/24875-meat-human-brain.html
>People who read books know a fact that vegetarians do not- that at one point in history, the Earth's total population of humans dropped to between 5,000 and 10,000 individuals, due to the eruption of Mt. Toba in Sumatra, which killed off most of the available plant and animal life on Earth in 71,000 BC. During this period of time, humans were confined to an
>extraordinarily small area of Africa that escaped glaciation, where they subsisted on a diet that was "approximately 50-70% meat and 50-30% plants, respectively." This diet was necessitated by the die-off of plants and animals, and the lack of a varied diet that could have been otherwise obtained though plant gathering. It was at this time that the Neanderthal diet came to consist of naught but meat, due to the complete lack of availability of edible vegetation, which likely lasted for at least 1000 years.(Plants/climate)
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-are-as.html?zx=19c1d9e7ae7f06a5
>(cont.)

>>42802307
>memescience

/fit/ is so fucking lame now that plebbit normies have flooded it

>>42802102
Overadjustment is easily grounds for rejection
Peer-review of hundreds with direct access to the data is more valuable than someone just emptily claiming it's improperly adjusted without nonetheless not even making any kind of rigorous statistical argument based on it
Literally every diet cult is being extremely dishonest about this study

>>42802588
that theory only works if there was one human species, there wasn't. debunked and dunked

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>>42802588
>(cont.)
>not realizing that consuming another animal's milk is completely unnatural and the process speaks for itself
>Ignoring history and evolution even more
>>42802307
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/01/true-or-false-dairy-is-toxic-hormone.html
Also doubt the"milk=prostate cancer" entirely especially when in the article it says:
>Estrone and prostate cancer risk in men: As far as the estrone levels Maruyama et al. measured in their 2010 study are concerned it is very difficult to tell, whether or not the 26% increase in E2 levels is or isn't a problem.
>The estrone values in the Maruyama study are unrealistic. With a normal range of <68pg/ml the subjects in the Maruyama study would have elevated E1 levels to begin with, if the measurement was correct.
>difficult to tell
>unrealistic
and
>What remains to be seen, though, is whether future epidemiological evidence will support or refute the currently heralded hypothesis that dairy consumption increases prostate cancer risk and whether we will be able to identify more feasible explanations for this relations than those that are implicated by the results Maruyama et al. present in their 2010 study.
>http://sciencedrivennutrition.com/hormones-milk/
>http://suppversity.blogspot.de/2014/05/bcfa-gut-health-immunity-cancer.html
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/12/dairy-good-bad-or-ugly-latest-studies.html
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2016/07/cheese-your-health-cvd-cancer-metabolic.html
>http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.2011.10719992
>>42801002

>>42802307

All of this is only true if you're a shitskin

>you're not a baby cow. Humans are the only species on the planet that drinks the milk of another species

Like cats? I give my cats milk all the time. Dogs? Yup, they love that shit too. All mammals love milk and only stop drinking it because their mothers stop producing it.

Predators constantly kill pregnant mammals and you bet your ass they tear open those delicious udders and drink anything inside.

Lactose intolerance is a disease

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>>42802307
Cheese being compared to heroine or something

>No one can be this retarded

>>42802262
Humans eat organs you fuckwad.
Also, why are our digestive tracts so short compared to herbivores? Why do we lack the same amount of protective enamel as herbivores?

Maybe humans are OMNIvores you fucking IDIOT. Your food privilege has blinded you to the realities of existence. You are such a massive faggot it's incomprehensible.

>>42802645
>This level of not reading

>>42802648
No other animal naturally eats food from completely different environments either. By that logic, anyone born in Europe shouldn't ever eat a kiwi. Potato? Not for Irish, those are from South America.

Maybe food and its constituent nutrients are just that; amalgams of nutrients in carbohydrate, protein, and fat latices that are melted down by the hydrochloric acid in our stomachs to their smallest forms for the bacteria in our guts.

You all are beyond helping.

>>42802616

>Overadjustment is easily grounds for rejection

It happens all the time. In this case it's more underadjustment though. The journal doesn't tell them "you better adjust for hospital access," they just make sure the authors' adjustments were calculated correctly.

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Keto+IF+monthly 3 days and semi-annual 5 day master race reporting in

What have you all done today to ensure the reversal of the damage the modern diet and sugar have caused to you while also ensuring a strong body and will?

>>42802757
>The Lancet only cares about syntactical validity not semantics
>their model is overadjusted because fruits and vegetables don't show enough of an effect I like and underadjusted because macronutrients don't show an effect I like

>>42802996

The journal isn't the one who decides how the data is adjusted, that's the study authors' job. Very few papers would get published if journals had strict requirements like that.

>>42803100
t. hindawi author

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>>42802962
>keto + IF

Could you be any more of a walking meme?

Holy shit, people on this board are so fucking autistis, I also bet you're fat as fuck.

>>42803577
you come off as the guy that shits up the /fat/ threads and tells them to take tren+clen

>>42796888
>2 servings of meat
>A day
>"Only"
What the fuck? Is this normal in America?

>>42796559
But a vegan diet isn't necessarily a low fat diet.

>>42803650

Yes, are you poor?

>>42803705
If by "poor" you mean planning to not get killed by my shitty diet in less than 30 years, then yes, I am poor

>>42802660
You'd know, you've completely cut off cheese, haven't you?

>>42797021

>Brainlets still publicizing the PURE study.

Just go back to your shitty fad diet that will kill you in your forties. You're obviously too stupid to resist supplement marketing, why would we expect you not to fall for shit science propagated by meat, dairy, and egg industries?

>>42804058
>the supplement, meat, dairy, and egg industries propagate shit science
>my vegan studies are flawless and perfect, buy my vegan cookbook

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>>42804090

>science says bad things about animal products
>mommy make the bad man stop

>>42804090
Yeah man, Big Spinach is behind all this fake science

>>42803654
Please tell me how you're going to consume a large amount of fat when all you've got to eat are vegetables, fruit, and legumes?

>>42804427
not the guy youre replying to, but vegans tend to compare vegans/vegetarians vs normal people.

Vegans and vegetarians are generally more health concious, and are less likely to be low income individuals. The average guy has a horrible diet and do not exercise.

Comparing the average diet to anything will make any other diet look good. That doesnt mean the other diet is the best for optimal health and longevity.

>>42804486
>Vegans only eat vegetables, fruit and legumes
>what are nuts, seeds, peanuts (legume), avocado (fruit) and oils (from fruit, like olives for example)
Anon, I...

>>42798486
Don't be a fat blob and eat an entire pizza by yourself and yeah, you can eat pizza while on keto.

>>42804427
>i mislabel my stupid views as science and if real science doesn't conform them then it's not science at all!
absolutely disgusting

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>>42804462

>>42804553
Strawman means that I mistepresented your argument.
Your argument was that veganism and vegan science is backed by some weird ulterior motive, which you didn't disclose of course because you're full of shit.
I made fun of you, so I won that internet argument with logic while not committing any fallacy in the meantime. Take that, random internet stranger.

>>42797845
> Nordic compatible food pyramid
> banned: potatoes
> encouraged : Kefir, Kombucha,
What?

>>42804592
>dat non-existent reading comprehension
It's okay, dude. You can stop praising me as the winner now.

>>42804622
>Still not listing the supposed motive behind veganism
>Implying all the activists and doctors who promote it have books to sell
>Implying that the cow industry jew wants what's good for you
>Implying the (((blogbosts))) you cite don't cite as their references (((books I have to buy from amazon)))
Y A W N
A
W
N

>>42803654
>>42804486
Because nuts, seeds, coconut (personal fave), and olive oil don't come from animals, you're welcome for letting you in the know. :^)

Keep pretending we don't get enough nutrients and you'll never convince a good vegan. Find a way to prove eating meat is a legitimately superior way to get nutrients and health benefits.

>>42804492

This is false- it's a broscience myth that needs to stop. In fact, there are some studies that show vegans with low fiber in their diet aren't particularly healthy. They're called junk food vegans- they're vegan for moral reasons and they are generally the ones the the low measurements of vitamins and minerals that are pointed to by all main stream supplement hawks/keto/paleo/atkins fad diet pushers as reasons vegan diets are unhealthy. Junk food vegans are the ones eating fake pizzas, fake meats, and fake substitutes of the standard american diet- rather than fruits and vegetables- as evidence by their low fiber intake, and the foods they report eating.

There's even a study that puts couch potato vegans against ultra marathon runners to find comparable bmi and the vegans still have less atherosclerosis.

Exercise is good for you, but not as good at eating a ton of fruits, veg, beans, nuts, and seeds- because your body is efficient at expending energy- it's hard to out exercise your mouth. Going up 70 flights of steps in 20 minutes only burns about 3 oreos worth of calories.

We have plenty of studies to control for these factors you're pointing to. Yes, anyone concerned about their health and making an effort to exercise and "eat right" will fare better than those eating the standard American diet- but no that's not what you're seeing when vegans are compared to other non-vegan populations. Even when you control for exercise, even when you control for calories- vegans simply out perform omnivores in health outcomes like diabetes, obesity, cancer, and cardiovascular disease.

>>42804792
>There's even a study that puts couch potato vegans against ultra marathon runners to find comparable bmi and the vegans still have less atherosclerosis.

Ultra marathons runners arent peak of healthy, They get a lot of health/injury issues due to their excess training

And exercise(lifting with some cardio) will bring more health benefits than any diet can.
And from the studies ive seen there is no difference between health councious meat eaters, vegans and vegetarians in terms of health and longevity.

People in the "blue zones" (people with the highest % of people above 100 yrs) in the world have meat in their diets.

>>42804710
>I shift the burden of proof
>I couldn't pass a psych 101 course explaining allegiance and ideological biases
>I can only shit-fling memes and personal attacks because my low IQ only allows for a low level pop sci understanding of the field
>I project my utilization of unscientific sources onto others
and this is why reddit must stay in reddit

>>42804792
Post one

>>42804911
haha what
the more you're backed in a corner the more incomprehensible your little tantrum becomes

>>42802662
>not omnivores, FRUGIvores
>we spent all day smashing and eating tough dry roots and legumes as well as berries when we could
>at some point eating meat is introduced
>dense calories meant we didn't need to forage and eat all day long til we fell asleep
>meat fats also highly stimulate the taste buds and make brain produce fat making hormones which at the time was super valuable
>we could just sit with our advanced primate brains
>already used to using rocks and shit to smash our tough foods we easily adapt our tools to help us chop meat, which we likely scavenged before we started to think about catching it
>in addition to the other benefits of more time to think and not needing to eat all our food, we can PLANT seeds
>farming starts
>12000 years of progress
>humans discover their original diet
>tons of health benefits
>can now be applied in a way that we don't need to forage and eat all day because we discovered farming
>in fact we can grow three times the food that animals produce using the same amount of land, plus animals consume more of our drinking water and our grains. Going vegan literally solves world hunger.
>we could all be ubermensch in utopia if it wasn't for meat eaters, its not even about cruelty to animals.

>>42804931
I'm sorry for overestimating your cognitive capacity. I actually believed your posts might express some form of intellect. I wrongly assumed that you weren't completely illiterate. I apologize for this mistake and from now on I promise I will assume maximum retardation from you. Do you have any crayons? Or would you prefer grunt and hiss noises? Maybe goo-goo ga-ga is more up your alley?

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>>42804543

Want me to sit here showing you the flawed methods of every single meat, dairy, egg industry funded study? Want me to point you to the court case against the egg industry- for false advertising when the egg industry laid out an ad that said eggs were safe and nutritious? Want me to show you the ad phillip morris funded to show- meat dairy and egg consumption was also linked as cancer as a way to suggest second hand smoke wasn't so bad? Want to see the egg board emails planning to buy egg shills to "create confusion" by paying bloggers and other internet personalities to talk about how good eggs are for you?

Or would you feel better if I shat on flawed studies about fruit and veg? There's a raisin study that concludes "raisins are heart healthy" but it's only in comparison to mars bars- that's a pretty big fucking flaw. There's acai studies funded by the acai industry claiming their berries cure cancer- but has failed to be reproduced in studies not funded by people with ties to the acai industry. There's a study from the 70's which concluded high doses of vit. C fought cancer better than modern treatment- which was tried a few times and failed to reproduce the results- showing failed methodology including sample bias. Studies on blue-green algae show contamination on par with eating fish. Studies on kelp show it has toxic levels of arsenic and mercury. Studies on hajiki show high toxic concentrations of mercury/arsenic- same as kelp. Studies of rice show high levels of arsenic in rice grown in the southern US- with California's rice having the lowest levels....

I have plenty of fucking problems with science attempting to show plant foods are miraculous- but no one is starting threads on raisins or acai. I'm on top of the science, and the science says eating animal products is bad- across the board. You can get away with eating about 2 grams a week without detectable health risks- and that's it.

>>42805043
>I'm on top of the science, and the science says eating animal products is bad- across the board. You can get away with eating about 2 grams a week without detectable health risks- and that's it.
Then why do people with the highest % of people above 100 have meat in their diets?

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>>42797021

>>42805087
btw im not saying certain industries arent posting bullshit studies to make their products look good. Because thats common practice.

>>42804904

you have to use ultra marathon runners to get the average bmi of vegans. It's a way to control for obesity when measuring atherosclerotic plague build up- couch potato vegans (reported as doing less than an hour of exercise per week) are the lowest they tested and ultramarathon runners are the lowest of omnivores. Everything you're saying is irrelevant, basically.

Blue zone's also ate tons of fruits and veg and as they've introduced more animal product into their diets- they've developed the same illnesses the U.S. suffers from.

Populations (african and south american) without animal products have zero incidence of cardiovascular disease. Even though pescatarian populations do pretty good- they don't do zero CVD good.

>>42805026
>>>/r/atheism

>>42805043
You believe you're on top of the science, yet feel compelled to write this emotional wall of unreferenced conspiratorial inference and diet religion proselytization. Dunning-Kruger is blasting trenbolone today it seems.

>>42805178
Long distance runners have high rates of atherosclerotic plague. Theyre a poor comparison for health.

Youre probably right about plant based diets are the best for your health, compared to many other diets.

>>42805087

There's more to living longer than diet. Those places are also developed with easy access to medical attention and are war free, famine free, and aren't vulnerable to disease outbreak.

It's simply a fact we don't have much information about vegan populations- but what we do have is promising. The studies on populations we have that are vegan, have zero CVD despite being poor, impoverished or in developing countries. And the vegetarian/vegan Adventist studies- show they, on average, live longer than comparable U.S. populations- so there aren't socioeconomic/geopolitical confounders.

Blue zones still have CVD- albeit low rates. When there are populations that don't have CVD- we have to look and see what's different- and it's the amount of animal products consumed.

>>42805317

Ultramaraton runners had the lowest amount of plaque measured among omnivores. What do you think you're saying- other than other omnivores have more atherosclerotic plaque than ultramarathon runners?

>>42805255
So that's where you're from. Why am I not surprised?

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>>42805270

>irrelevant reply
>using psychology term you saw in a youtube video

hiiiiiiiighschooooool

>>42805373
All this coping and mental gymnastics, and you still can't deny sucking the beef and dairy jew's dick

>>42795977
Jesus, this thread is an perfect example of american stupidity.

>>42805355
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28465287/
> Male athletes are more likely to have a CAC score >300 Agatston units or coronary plaques compared with sedentary males with a similar risk profile. The significance of these observations is uncertain
>Coronary plaques are more abundant in athletes, whereas their stable nature could mitigate the risk of plaque rupture and acute myocardial infarction.

seems like athletes have more of it.

>>42805010
>eating tough dry roots and legumes as well as berries
You can't do this in winter. Or spring.
>at some point eating meat is introduced
Yes, it was introduced before we were Homo Sapiens. We had tools for hunting and cooked our food before our actual species was even around.
The main way we survived in temperate areas was with small animals and fish. Your timeline is all wrong, and what you're saying here is pure disinfo propaganda.

"Most (73%) hunter-gatherer societies worldwide derived >50% (≥56–65%) of their subsistence from animal foods, whereas only 13.5% of these societies derived more than half (≥56–65%) of their subsistence from gathered plant foods."
http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v56/n12/full/1601646a.html

>>42805633
I posted the wrong study, sorry. I meant this one:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/71/3/682.full

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>>42805452
>Jesus
>>42795977
http://www.strawpoll.me/13897700
http://www.strawpoll.me/13897700
http://www.strawpoll.me/13897700
http://www.strawpoll.me/13897700

THE WEAK SHOULD FEAR THE STRONG

>>42805405
Now you want me to act out your reddit numale gay fantasies? How old are you? I'd guess maybe 15.

>>42805569

>Most athletes (60%) and controls (63%) had a normal CAC score.

>Most lifelong masters endurance athletes with a low atherosclerotic risk profile have normal CAC scores.

It's interesting, but I'd like to see what they're eating/ate during that time. Just spitballing- I'd suspect since the effect is prevalent with men- higher animal product consumption is at play, but also lower anti-oxidant consumption could be a factor. We know exercise creates oxidative stress which damages the endothelium which would be repaired by patches of cholesterol/calcium plaques... the plaques can stabilize and be relatively harmless or rupture and be lethal.

I'll have to look a little harder, since this effect is interesting. But, it's also seemingly contrary to the study I was talking about

here's the study I was referencing;

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16275507

Couch potato omnivores (eating SAD) weighed in at .74 mm of carotid intima media thickness. Couch potato Vegans had .53mm. and ultra marathon runners (eating SAD) running average of 48 miles per week for an average of 21 years had .63mm- less than the couch potato omnivores but more than vegans.

It seems to be conflicting. Perhaps runners have more coronary plaque but less carotid plaque? That would be consistent with the data we have now.

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>>42797845
You should remove nightshades Never eat nightshades

"[Tom] doesn't eat nightshades, because they're not anti-inflammatory," Campbell said. "So no tomatoes, peppers, mushrooms, or eggplants. Tomatoes trickle in every now and then, but just maybe once a month. I'm very cautious about tomatoes. They cause inflammation."

http://www.businessinsider.com/tom-bradys-diet-is-strict-2016-1

>>42805569
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17518696

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22412169

>>42802307
>only species that drinks other species milk
I give my dog fair life lactose free milk w/ omega-3 oil sometimes

checkmate vegans

>>42805404
Someone of your particular disability status struggles to handle the relevance of shitting in a toilet. Youtube and high school aren't realistic prospects.

>>42806012
>http://www.strawpoll.me/13897700
But I'm a vegan eating a high-fat diet? This doesn't make sense.

>>42806443
yes actually, I mean I would eat fish because I don't into vegan. But I drink a ton of olive oil and use coconut oil. Going low fat is just retarded

>>42795977
>tfw on high fat eco-atkins diet

I am the peanut master

>>42797845
>nordic race
>bacon
>kefir
>fried eggs

Lmao, cringed.
Also, where are the grains you colossal edgelord? Vikings ate their oats.

>>42795977
Vegan here. Didn't read.

Enjoy your bypass and ED healthlet.

>>42795977

>those who cut back on fats
>vegans

Pick one you utter mongoloid

>>42804515
t. retard

>>42807043
What oats? They fished and plundered and even the women were warriors.

>>42795977
But there is a metric fuckton of vegan products that are filled with fat anon, gosh get a grip you stupid meat animal murderer

>>42807056
>Vegan here. Didn't read.

surprise surprise

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>>42801002
>However, a diet high in carbohydrates (of more than 60 per cent of energy) is related to higher mortality, although not with the risk of cardiovascular disease.
What should I eat instead of carbs to fill me up?

>>42801002

>sources are literal blog posts

d r o p p e d

>>42808930
cont.
>>42802648

>>42808890

Even if those claims weren't dubious as fuck, is it really hard for you to stay within 60% carbs?

>>42808890
Top sources of carbs in this study: white rice, white bread, white pasta, breakfast cereal, cake, soft drink, sugar cubes

How do any of those fill you up?

>>42803923
Never gonna make it, you need those protons

>>42796888
how are potatoes processed?

>>42795977
Knowing nutrition news in five years they'll be telling us the exact opposite.

Five years ago
>blah blah blah is bad, take blah blah instead
Now
>Blah blah is actually the bad thing to take, take blah blah blah instead now.

>>42806193
In both these studies the vegetarian group was much thinner than the omnivore group. This says nothing about eating meat, just that you shouldn't be fat.

>>42809321
Pretty much this, nutrition is a buch of bull shit and scientists are always changing their mind. Eat whatever you want, just don't be fat.

>>42804904

>People in the "blue zones" (people with the highest % of people above 100 yrs) in the world have meat in their diets.

Although one of the things the blue zones have in common is a low intake of meat and high intake of plant foods, and the longest-living of the blue zones is Loma Linda, California, the home of the Adventist vegetarian community.

>>42809419

>nutrition is a buch of bull shit and scientists are always changing their mind.

Nutrition science is actually pretty consistent. It only seems like it flip flops constantly if you get all your nutrition info from unqualified journalists whose careers require them to make a mountain out of anything they can find to write about. If you get your info from credited health organizations, every one of them agrees on the fundementals.

>>42806576

>Going low fat is just retarded

So is drinking oil

>>42795977
>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/29/low-fat-diet-linked-higher-death-rates-major-lancet-study-finds/
>Participants eating the highest levels of carbohydrates – particularly refined sugars found in fizzy drinks and processed meals – faced a 28 per cent higher risk of early death.
It's almost as if junk food is bad for you.

>>42809531
Retard don't understand that it's not the fat in itself but the vitamin & minerals contained in the fat food that are "healthy"

You could get 150 g of fat from olive oil or 40 from nuts + 5 from livers and get way more health benefit from those 45 grams , the retard who chugged 150 g of OO just wasted 1350 kcals and got maybe 5% of is vitamin E RDI

>>42809563
It's the same reason people keep on spouting the " cholesterol & sat fat increase test" meme
>Take minerals & vitamin deficient people
>Feed them lots of meat ( which contain a lot of zinc & lots of B vitamins )
>No longer deficient in Zinc & B vitamin ( which are a 'cause of lowered testosterone when deficient )
>It also included Sat fat & cho because it was meat .
>Conclude that Sat fat & cho boost test .

>>42797237
by whom out of curiosity