>what, if any, supplements are necessary? I take 0 supplements

>>42569771
5 SCOOPS

>>42569771
It depends on what you eat, lad.

If you need more protein, supplement protein. If you want swoler muscles ,take creatine
If your are low energy wen start workouts, take PWO
If you have a very homogenous diet, take vitamins.
If you do intermittent fasting, take BCAA

>>42569771
just take protein powder,pre-workout,and creatine

Are supplements necessary? No.
Will they ever be? No.

Your friends are getting memed by an industry that keeps telling they'll never reach their goals without extra powder/pills.

>>42569771
Not really OP, they will though give you a boost in your gains if you do use them

>>42569771
Creatine is retarded, BCAA is retarded cause you can get all that shit AND MORE from fish, which is fuckin healthy as shit.
Protein supplements does jack shit if you don't eat above maintenance anyway, and you should easily be able to hit protein goals using protein rich snacks/making more protein rich foods like chicken, nuts and such.

Oh good, it's in the name..... SUPPLEMENT, it is for supplementary purpose. If you don't get enough PROTEIN for example or VITAMIN you get it from SUPPLEMENTS, which are beneficial ONLY if you don't get enough from FOOD. I personally take whey and vitamin D, because I don't expose my skin to the sun and I was never big into eating food.

>>42569842
Wew lad so much fake news in one (1) post

creatine is magic for some people but usually does nothing, it's cheap enough to buy a kilo and it'll last a year so see if it does anything for you and never buy it again if not
black coffee is all you need for preworkout
it's good to have some protein powder around in case you had an off day and your macros are fucked
I'm doing IF on a cut so casein and BCAAs are pretty much mandatory for me, but they're generally unnecessary
I also take some sugary postworkout bullshit because it tastes fucking radical and I want to fuck my insulin right up after breaking a 16+ hour fast, but you definitely don't need that shit

>>42569818
I track my macros so I'm eating a pretty healthy diet getting plenty of protein.

>>42569871
My wife mentioned using black coffee as a bcaa but fuck that. I got off the caffeinated Jew years ago and since then I pretty much consume no caffeine in a day, last time I drank a cup of coffee my mind was racing all night.

>>42569897
BCAAs aren't preworkout, they're intraworkout
the meme I'm getting at is that (now that all the GOOD SHIT is banned) the only real active ingredient in preworkout is caffeine so just have black coffee for the same effect at 1/100th the price

>bruh you gotta take a BCAA so you can get PUMPED before your workout

I hate at how people act like this. They act like they are doing a like of Coke to go party or some shit. It's so pathetic.

>>42569871
Do you use BCAAs on days you don't do fasted training?

BCAA's haven't proved to do shit.

Bcaa is a meme. Get eaa if you want something during your workout

Why supplements when you could just take gear?

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>>42569820
Research suggests some supplements are so helpful though --

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/07/bill-sardi/making-genetic-flaw/
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/06/bill-sardi/starving-cancer-cells-existence/
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/03/bill-sardi/vitamin-c-2/

Tryptophan and phenylalanine increasing serotonin, melatonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine -- Mucuna pruriens providing L-DOPA..

NAD, a derivitive of B3 (and that, from L-tryptophan) is reversing aging by providing cellular energy as "the respirator of the cells".

>>42569871
>black coffee is all you need for preworkout
Protein is helpful .. probably a multivitamin or at least B.

Nothing is nessacary, yet they can help.
When fasting or even eating below maintainence BCAA's work well to stave off your body eating your muscles -not scientific but whatever - when taken during or just before exercise.
Protein powder is great to hit macros, although I only recommend whey as casien has a shit absorbtion rate.

For preworkouts: Caffeine for a little bit of energy and a boost. If you need a better boost look for the old style preworkouts or anything that contains DMAA, DMHA or Amp hcl. Another option is ec(a) stack. The a i have put in brackets as you see it mentioned a lot yet if your not roiding aspirin is not needed.

For performance enhancement, creatine has been proven to increase performance in strength and smaller sets as well as making you look a bit bigger, it's very cheap with little/no side effects so I would recommend it.
Beta alanine has been shown to offset fatigue so would also be helpful if your doing 15+ rep sets or very long workouts, but this is more expensive and there is still some arguments on it's effectiveness.

General vitamins and minirals aren't really needed unless your diet is poor, however Vitamin D can up your mood and stuff generally if you live in a country that isn't sunny. Zinc some people believe it helps recovery and there is some support. Magnesium can help with sleep, although it gives me dreams, and vitamin b is also recommended often but I have found very little chane with it. With all of this category most are relatively expensive and make little change if any so unless you have money spare I would not recommend.

Finally I will touch on things like arginine and citruline. These both do help with recovery and performance slightly, however they can considerably improve your pump. Don't take arginine, instead take citruline malate if you want to supplement any of these as it has a much better absorbtion rate and increases arginine levels in your body

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>>42569820
>>42569842
>>42569871
>Casein

>>42569818
>BCAA
>>42569871
>BCAA
you only need leucine (one of the AAs in the BCAAs)
note that the most expensive BCAA usually have an higher leucine ratio as well (e.g. 4:1:1 vs 2:1:1 ratio)
>https://www.strongerbyscience.com/athlete-protein-intake/
>When BCAAs are supplemented on top of some protein, the increase in MPS is smaller compared to simply eating more protein or adding only leucine
>Why would the addition of the two other BCAAs be worse than leucine alone? Isoleucine and valine use the same transporter as leucine for uptake in the gut. Therefore, it is speculated that isoleucine and valine compete for uptake with leucine, resulting in a less rapid plasma leucine peak.
>So, leucine supplementation on its own is better at producing the trigger for maximal MPS, and a complete protein is just better at providing the bricks for muscle growth. A BCAA supplement doesn’t fit anywhere in this picture; it’s worse than only leucine at doing leucine’s job, and it’s worse than a complete protein at its job.
Just.
Get.
Leucine.

>>42570064
Overall, most supplements aren't worth it unless your making up for holes in your diet, due to there less than substantial differences in performance. However, creatine can be a huge benefit to some people and is cheap. The only other ones which have a huge impact and you will see a marked increase is the energy giving ones like DMAA and ephredrine, however here you can be sacrificing health to an extent, not to mention legal issues coming into effect dependent on where you live.

>>42570044
>Research suggest
>post blog sources
Find me one (1) double blind and/or placebo-controlled paper published in the last 20 years suggesting that hyper-dosing vitamins in non-deficient humans yields benefits and no negative consequences.

>>42570101
>hyper-dosing
How much? ..Of an RDA 100mg? So 2g?

See pic here >>42570044

Those pages have a lot of studies just primed for critique.

>>42569771
Whey protein is for convenience.
Never tried bcaas.
Tried creatine and went off it it doesn't make me superman but it does let me get that extra 2-3 reps in and that's worth it for me only issue is I need to stop in summer since it encourages so much water retention.

>>42570144
>links to the blog posts again
>scammy book about fad_diet#121412
>only some reference to mice
>sad references to the "highbrow scientific community" which obviously doesn't understand
>even more scammy books
colour me surprised.

Reminder that if you take any supplements you are not natty

>>42570210
>links to the blog posts again
It's specifically referencing garlic and vitamin C.

..But you know that and are deflecting.

(*) These 2 studies have 1g and 750mg, respectively.. definitely under the 2g standard set by the garlic study (~300% NO production).

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Shaker_Mousa/publication/238295701_Cellular_effects_of_garlic_supplements_and_antioxidants_on_high_blood_pressure_in_humans_pilot_study/links/0f31753bc0f8b9679c000000.pdf

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>>42570316
>(*)
Pic.

>>42570316
>>42570322
re-read >>42570101
and don't ever reply to me again until you
1) understand what's written there
2) provide such one (1) paper

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>>42570341

>>42569771
>creatine
>glutamine
>leucine
>hmb

>>42570363
>I'll link the same shit over and over without understanding the question nor the exposed thesis in the papers I (ab)use nor the conclusions reached there about lowering marginally high blood pressure with garlic nor how and if it does apply to the general population nor what is a double blind and/or placebo controlled study
just stop posting please.

I'm in the same boat OP.
Every fucking gymbro comes to the gym with a big bag full of powdered shit. It's pretty ridiculous to me.
First they mix their mango-strawberry flavored preworkout, then they sip on neon green colored apple flavored BCAAs during workout and after they're finished it's time for caramel latte flavored protein. Most of people who do this are also pretty weak and small.

I don't know man. maybe it will improve your workouts by 5% or whatever. I just enjoy lifting and living healthy, I don't wanna eat powdered shit full of flavorings, aromas, and conservants just to be able to finish a workout.

Supplement industry is a giant fucking scam, don't fall for it. Protein is cool when you're in a hurry, BCAAs are supposedly great if you're fasting. But you will get very similiar results by just eating good meals.

>not lifting for aesthetics's

Enjoy your wife leaving you; cuck.

>>42569771
No need
They are a waste of money and only feed the pockets of an industry that uses illegal drug using models as their spokesman and models. So if you enjoy giving money to a roid monkey, at least give it to him directly and cut the middle man out

>>42570403
What is your problem with that study?

>>42569771
I have models for supplements ask me what my routine is on Instagram. I don't even lift and I'm more muscular than them so that goes to show a lot. People seem to think supplements and roids will magically fix a lacking diet and/or inactivity.