Is a Vegan Diet the Ultimate Path to Being /fit/?

Vegan diet is low in some of the b-vitamins and a few of the performance boosters like L-carnitine and creatine. You'd have to supplement to be on the same level, which I don't really think justifies veganism as a performance aid. There are arguments for veganism but I don't think health is a strong one.

>>42557259
True. How about for weight loss? Then gradually bring back fish + eggs perhaps.

>>42557263

a hell of a lot harder for weight loss as protein intake (relatively unimportant at maintenance or bulking, of maximal importance during weight loss while attempting to maintain muscle mass) would be extremely low without supplementation.

Makes way more sense while bulking if anything.

>>42557236
>Is a Vegan Diet the Ultimate Path to Being /fit/?
No.
It is the ultimate path to being skinnyfat, weak, and having a brain that doesn't work quite right, all thanks to malnutrition.

The primary purpose of veganism is to elevate food animals above humans on the food chain. Your health and well-being are secondary to the health and well being of dumb animals that aren't even smart enough to understand what you're doing.

If you want optimal health you must eat an omnivorous diet.

All a vegan lifestyle will do for you is have you survive, but not thrive.

Don't fall for it.

>>42557285
Vegan is good for weight loss if you're a normie and don't care about gains

>>42557451
but what if protein consumption is adequate? Couldn't you get by?

>>42557259
>There are arguments for veganism

No, there aren't.

>muh sustainability

Computers aren't sustainable. Cars aren't sustainable. Vegans should swear those off so we don't have to see or hear from them ever again.

>muh health

If some dipshit can't control himself and eats his weight in tendies every day, that's on him, not meat.

>muh sad cows crying for their calves

Who the fuck cares?

>>42557482
>Couldn't you get by?
"Getting by" means being skinnyfat, weak, and slowly having your brain turn to mush, as you over time develop strange health problems due to chronic malnutrition.

Listen: Vegan is EXTREMISM. There's a reason that less than 1% of everyone is Vegan: because it's way out in left field.

If you include a variety of fruits and vegetables in your diet along with meat and dairy products, along with lifting, you'll be healthy as a proverbial horse, and so much more than any Vegan, and your brain won't be compromised. You'll also not be miserable, having to research every goddamned thing you own or buy, to make sure no animal had any part in it's manufacture -- or didn't you know that's part of being Vegan?

>>42557504
>muh sad cows crying for their calves
LOL how about:
>muh sad gazelles crying for their babies after lions eat them
Circle of life, and the food chain, motherfuckers.
You're either at the top of it, or you're FOOD. Choose wisely, Vegans.

Veganism is so freaking unnatural that it's probably the most expensive /fit/ lifestyle, why do you think only rich people go vegan successfully? Because they can afford to ship in protein from around the globe.

>>42557236
Let me sum up the entire argument here.

The science says to eat more vegetables.

You don't have to eliminate meat and eggs and all other foods that have a high amount of complete protein and increase testosterone to help you build muscle and feel horny and great while eating it. Just eat more vegetables with that stuff and maybe replace a little bit of it with vegetables here and there.

>vegans are extremist faggots
>vegans demand that you eat veggies or you are evil
>just eat a little less meat and a little more veggies
>if this doesn't pacify vegans then drive a dodge challenger into them

>>42557236
>vegan diet
>not even once

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFF30jfTubU

i value my mental and physical health, thanks. plus i don't have extra money laying around to spend on 1000 supplements you need when you are on that shitty diet

>>42557624
this is what fucking boils my blood. i already eats tons of vegetables in addition to meat. there's literally zero benefit for me to go pure vegetables only. my blood work is PERFECT even though i eat 3 eggs and either 400g of fish or chicken and drink 1L of milk every single day for the past 3 years.

>>42557451
>>42557459
>>42557504
>>42557505
>>42557631
Then how come the strongest animals on earth all eat plant based diets?

>>42557668
They do nothing but eat literally all fucking day

>>42557668
are you talking about gorillas? chimps are omnivores and so are many other monkey specie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQq93Q2txrs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUPhRYi_caY

majority of apex predators are carnivores and that's what matters. i don't give a shit about potential strength output of an animal. chimps are like 7 times stronger than adult male.

>>42557693
Rhinos, Oxen, Elephants

>>42557725
hippo is the most dangerous and most durable land animal. while they are considered herbivores they have been seen and filmed eating other animals

2/3 of my diet isn't vegan and I'm only 6 months in. Vegan kuks btfo.

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meat

>calcifies your pineal gland
>gives you the adrenaline of the animal
>gives you parasites
>clogs your intestines

fruits/veggies/nuts

>catalyzes light code activation as the sun carries information and plants are liquid light
>gives your more atheltic energy as opposed to sluggish
>never have to wipe your ass
>gets mother nature on your side
>more likely to reach the higher dimensions upon death

This reality is not a fucking game. Thats a BLOOD SACRIFICE youre participating in. We're suppose to be shepherds for the animals. Stop killing your animal totems.

>>42557784
Lmao at your stuff

>>42557459

why is it good? As long as you eat enough veggies anyway, I don't see why

>>42557504

I'm not vegan so I have no stake in this. There is a significant greenhouse gas output from animal production. I eat meat and am aware of this, so I try to be environmentally conscious in other ways.

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Is your body a cemetary? OR a well oiled machine? Cows are fed potato chips and m&ms. Chickens arent even their natural selves by the steroids. Pigs are cannibal scanvengers and roll around in shit all day. It's a drug that gives you acne and makes you stink. MIND BODY SPIRIT MOTHER FUCKER

>>42557807
>why is it good?
Because most staple vegan foods are like 95% water so it's hard to eat too much of it. You can stuff your face with bread and still not have a caloric deficit I guess, but without butter what's the point

>>42557819

fair point, but most of the normie vegans I know are overweight/obese anyway because they make up for meat by overdoing simple carbs. I think as long as you are capable of tracking your intake you'll be fine either way, so long as athletic performance isn't important.

>>42557819
>He doesn't panic eat a loaf of bread when he realizes he won't meet his caloric goal.

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bodybuilding isnt healthy without live and electric foods

>>42557828
Oh yeah I'm not saying that it's the best way to lose weight, not by a long shot. For normies, the best option is probably just for them to just keep eating what they normally do, but less of it, and get rid of caloric drinks. Anything with more discipline and they'll drop it.

>>42557236
Vegan protein is incomplete and doesn't provide enough of a mps effect this is without even taking in the multiple amino acids that you'll require a highly variety of legumes and vegetables to even get them.

You're also more likely to be b vitamin , iron and calcium deficient that even with supplements in the long term 5 years you're still deficient.

It's a shit diet for lifters and non lifters.

>>42557834
>citrus fruits
>alkaline
whoever made this is brain dead retarded

>>42557504
>No, there aren't.
what about studies show meat being linked to prolonged inflammation and paralysing insulin sensitivity?

>>42557835
Normies can't even follow a simple diet like keto which is full of cheese and bacon do you think they can do it with a diet that is full of legumes and vegetables and need supplements they will relapse hard or be more deficient than the normal vegan.

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>>42557834
>>42557847
Pineapple at 8 PH
Just fug my facts up senpai, guess I've been marinating wrong my whole life.
(Pineapple is sitting comfy at 3.5)

>>42557847
>>42557862
Your problem is getting to bent up on nutrition as a math equations rather than a lifestyle. The more color -> the more alive it is, the more it will make you happy. I eat oranges to tune my sacrel chakra when I want to create. Red apples when I want to tune my root chakra to have better sex. The other day I ate my semen because I wasnt scared of it being tainted. NExt I will do urine therapy because my body is fully detoxed.

>>42557834
please bait or hang yourself

Lemons 10pH x fucking d

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>>42557884
Well science proves you wrong macaroni. Pig related.

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>>42557885
our frequency is just not the same. they lied to you.

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>>42558021
Bump because I like buttmad vegans

>try vegan for a bit over 6 months
>BP almost 200
>go back to eating meat
>BP back to normal
makes you wonder

>>42557668
It couldn't have anything to do with them having entirely different organs to be able to digest thing humans can't, could it?

>>42557668
The smartest animals on earth are meat eaters because predators are generally smarter than their prey.

>>42557259
Why do you trip in a thread that is irrelevant to your knowledge? You're only embarrassing yourself
>Vegan diet is low in some of the b-vitamins
Nutritional yeast
> and a few of the performance boosters like L-carnitine
Non essential amino acid, as long as you eat enough high quality protein rich in all the essential amino acids (just as EASY in a vegan diet as in a non vegan one) you'll be fine
>and creatine. You'd have to supplement to be on the same level
Even if you eat meat you'd have to supplement. It takes 1 kg of beef or 1.7 kg chicken to get the equivalent in creatine monohydrate in a 5g scoop, which is expensive. Plus nobody eats (or should eat) that much meat.
By the way, supplementing creatine is vegan.
>which I don't really think justifies veganism as a performance aid.
Your list so far reads like someone who googled "veganism unhealthy/bad for bodybuilding". What about the benefits from a diet high in antioxidants, low in saturated fats and cholesterol, high in nitrates, fiber to flush out estrogens and hormones and practically no inflammatory properties
>There are arguments for veganism but I don't think health is a strong one.
You should rethink it, we have falafel burgers with baba ganoush ;)
>>42557285
Wroooooooooooong. Please do research before embarrassing yourself.
Legumes, seitan, tofu and tempeh all cover your protein requirements even by the 1g/lb rule even in a steep deficit.
>>42557451
Great shitpost 8/8
>>42557504
>>42557505
Lol get a life nerd

>>42557263
Pescatarian is the best, both for cutting and bulking.
All the populations with extremely long lifespans are basically pescatarians living low-stress lives out in the countryside.

>>42557285

Idiot. There are vegan protein shakes.

If I would go vegan it's because of the meat/dairy industry pumping huge amounts of hormones and antibiotics into the animals which end up in my body by eating the products...

>vegan=vegetarian
>tomayto=tomahto

>>42559658
almost all foods are packed with extra vitamins and shit

>>42557807
>still believeing the greenhouse jew

>>42559629
>>42559644

Any diet that requires supplementation to be successful isn't really a successful or self-contained diet though

>>42557593
Are rice and beans expensive?

>>42559917
>Any diet that requires supplementation to be successful
I didn't use the word "supplement", unless you count nutritional yeast and tofu as supplements, which they aren't.
> isn't really a successful
Yes it is. Success is defined by the result, not the means. Not like veganism necessitates supplements, as I said above, just nitpicking.
> or self-contained diet though
Why yes it is. As long as the supplement is vegan, the diet is self contained. And believe me, there are vegan supplements for everything you can think of.
Again, not like veganism necessitates supplements, as I said above

>>42560166

Im not vegan but holy fuck thank you for this.
People have this whole misconception that vegan diets arent healthly and lack nutrition which pisses me the fuck off.

A vegan diet is the ultimate path to become a cucked nu male skelly.

https://youtu.be/EFF30jfTubU

>>42557504
/thread

>>42557259
>>42557451
>>42557504
>>42557505
>>42557593
>>42557624
>>42557631
>>42557641
>>42557693
>>42557842
>>42558604
>>42559642
>>42561354

>Is atherosclerosis a disease affecting all animals or only certain animals?
>Atherosclerosis affects only herbivores. Dogs, cats, tigers, and lions can be saturated with fat and cholesterol, and atherosclerotic plaques do not develop (1, 2). The only way to produce atherosclerosis in a carnivore is to take out the thyroid gland; then, for some reason, saturated fat and cholesterol have the same effect as in herbivores

>Are human beings herbivores, carnivores, or omnivores?
>Although most of us conduct our lives as omnivores, in that we eat flesh as well as vegetables and fruits, human beings have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores (2). The appendages of carnivores are claws; those of herbivores are hands or hooves. The teeth of carnivores are sharp; those of herbivores are mainly flat (for grinding). The intestinal tract of carnivores is short (3 times body length); that of herbivores, long (12 times body length). Body cooling of carnivores is done by panting; herbivores, by sweating. Carnivores drink fluids by lapping; herbivores, by sipping. Carnivores produce their own vitamin C, whereas herbivores obtain it from their diet. Thus, humans have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores.

>What evidence connects atherosclerosis to cholesterol?
>The connection between cholesterol and atherosclerosis is strong (9, 10):

Atherosclerotic plaques similar to those in humans can be produced in nonhuman herbivores by feeding them large quantities of cholesterol and/or saturated fat. It is not possible to produce atherosclerotic plaques experimentally in carnivores.
Cholesterol is found within atherosclerotic plaques

>Do statin drugs have to be taken every day for the remainder of life?
>if a patient subsequently becomes a pure vegetarian-fruit eater it might be possible to discontinue the statin drug

>>42562191

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/#!po=2.63158

CARNISTS BTFO AND ON MEDICAL WATCH

>>42558710
what a retarded statement

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>>42557451
>>42557593
>>42561354

>>42557504
>If some dipshit can't control himself and eats his weight in tendies every day, that's on him, not meat.
You don't need to be overweight to get a heart attack from all the saturated fats, trans-fats and cholesterol in the meat dairy and eggs you're eating.

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>>42562191
>>42562207
>What evidence connects atherosclerosis to cholesterol?
None
>The connection between cholesterol and atherosclerosis is strong (9, 10):
No, it's not.
>https://authoritynutrition.com/it-aint-the-fat-people/
>https://authoritynutrition.com/top-8-reasons-not-to-fear-saturated-fats/
>https://authoritynutrition.com/saturated-fat-good-or-bad/
>https://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy/
>http://www.uib.no/en/node/103172
>http://www.healthline.com/nutrition/5-studies-on-saturated-fat
>http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285

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>>42559917
The animals you eat are supplemented with vitamin B12 though.

>>42563026
Do you even bother with reading the articles you're linking?
>http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285
>Saturated fat does not clog the arteries: coronary heart disease is a chronic inflammatory condition, the risk of which can be effectively reduced from healthy lifestyle interventions
>saturated fat

>>42563004
And no one will because those are memes
>>42563026
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/search?q=eggs
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/12/dairy-good-bad-or-ugly-latest-studies.html
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2016/07/cheese-your-health-cvd-cancer-metabolic.htm
>http://suppversity.blogspot.de/2014/05/bcfa-gut-health-immunity-cancer.html
>>42563050
>Animals store vitamin B12 in liver and muscle and some pass the vitamin into their eggs and milk; meat, liver, eggs and milk are therefore sources of the vitamin for other animals, including people.[5][7][29] For humans, the bioavailability from eggs is less than 9%, compared to 40% to 60% from fish, fowl and meat.[30]
>Animal sources with a significant content of vitamin B12 (range among top 20 sources of 50 to 99 µg per 100 grams)[32] include clams, organ meats (especially liver) from lamb, veal, beef, and turkey, fish eggs, mackerel, and crab meat.[4][5]
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12#Animal_sources
>>42563083
>Do you even bother with reading the articles you're linking?
Yes but I now know you clearly didn't and also don't know anything about basic science or biology

>>42563229
That's how they store vitamin B12, not where it comes from.

>>42558604
i know you made this up, but just in case you didn't, you should go to a heart specialist asap, you'll literally die senpai

>>42559917
all human beings benefit from vitamin d supplementation, does this mean that no human diets are successful?

>>42563350
meat-eater brains can't handle subtleties like this

>vegans can only be weak
http://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/articles/why-americas-best-olympic-weightlifter-is-vegan-w434203

>>42559917

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

>>42557641
well then show us your blood tests mr. perfect

>>42563026
Do you have autism or something? You are still posting the Norwegian study funded by the dairy and coconut industry that showed that low-fat diet is healthier, which they simply ignored in the press release.

How can you be so dense?

And the problem with saturated fat isn't just that it causes atherosclerosis. It also happens to cause insulin resistance, NAFLD, diabetes, brain damage, inflammation, dysbiosis, endotoxemia, certain forms of cancer, birth defects etc.

>>42557784


>catalyzes light code activation as the sun carries information and plants are liquid light

RIP my sides

>>42564709
>fat manlet oly lifter tired of being bottom tier trash
>timeforpeds.jpg
>gets leaner and bigger
>ohshitpeoplewillnotice.avi
>"I'll just tell people I went vegan"
>vegans actually believe it

>>42557236
Yes

>>42557834
Carbonated water is close to neutral, that's why it has minerals, so it's not acidic

>>42557693
>most predators eat meat

You are doing leaps of logic that anyone with an IQ below 200 would have a hard time following.

>>42557236
>>42557236
>>42557236

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fIUsqeOA5g

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I am a biochemist and former vegan (for two non-consecutive years). Allow me to preface this by saying- I feel a huge amount of compassion for animals, and I've cried more than once about having to kill to eat.

When I was a vegan in 2008, I felt extremely weak after about a month, and by the end of the year, I felt like death every day. I was 13 at the time but I knew the one thing I'd changed was my diet, and I was craving meat severely, so I went back to an animal-supplemented diet for several years. Better armed with nutritional knowledge, I attempted veganism again for a year when I was 19. I hit my macros, took D3 and B12, and supplemented with EFA/ALA's. By the end of the year, I was unable to function. I couldnt think straight, lost all physical stamina, was constantly exhausted. I saw my physician, did some labs, and found out my cholesterol was in the toilet. We did more labs and that was the only level that was off.

Unfortunately hypocholestemia is not studied because it is virtually unheard of- you have to be a vegan to get levels that low. After exhausting all the diagnoses that could explain why I couldn't function, I started eating meat and butter again. Within a week I was back to normal, could think clearly, felt strong and well. Though the mechanisms are not entirely understood yet, the human body requires cholesterol to function. It is known that low cholesterol correlates with depression. I wasn't getting adequate omega-3's either, and my brain had nothing to repair itself with- so it stopped working. Veganism is not a viable option for people who wish to retain 100% of their capacity to function. You can get by on a vegan diet, the body is designed to survive starvation and poor conditions for a very long time- but if you want to LIVE, to THRIVE, to not be depressed and sluggish and weak, and have your brain working at half-capacity, you have to consume animal products

>>42565437
You know we make our own cholesterol right?
you might have liver damage that makes it difficult for you to create your own, but please cite a source that says only vegans can get hypocholestemia.
anecdotes aside, dietitians and nutritionists agree you can be vegan from birth to until you're elderly.

>>42557236
Any recommended plant-based proteins? From prozis or whatever website based in europe/ships from europe

asking since i need something easier on the stomach, got some samples from regular whey(from xcore hydro isolate, cookies & cream and that shit had actual cookie pieces and a 7/10 taste) and tried it and gave me gas and stomach rumbling and all that shit when you feel like you have diahrrea

MyVegies
100% Vegetable Protein New Formula

Weider
Vegan Protein

Scitec
Pure Form Vegan Protein

>>42566141
hemp protein powder without a doubt

>>42563350
>>42563629
>Even more not reading
>>42564850
>How can you be so dense?
>Asks this then proceeds to prove how much he didn't read and posts more dietary memes

>>42557842
>You're also more likely to be b vitamin , iron and calcium deficient that even with supplements in the long term 5 years you're still deficient.
I read that same study, it also said meat eaters were also deficient in b vitamins, among other things.
It also was a case study and didn't know why this was, probably because people get lax on their diets and are lazy fucks.
>vegan protein is incomplete
Can I ask where you buy this vegan protein?
Because lots of plant proteins are very near complete and only have to have a side dish of something else to become complete, a serving of pea protein powder is complete IIRC but might be lacking in methionone which is easy af to get.
>t. meat eater who eats chicken or fish everyday but eats vegetables because I'm not a child

>>42559642
It truly is best, I'm thinking about going pesco and eating fatty fish + fermented soy as my go to proteins.
Would still eat a nice steak once or twice a year though as a cheat meal.

>>42559917
It doesn't require supplementation though.
Not that it should matter because most people should be on a couple supps anyway.

Most vegans on here are cunts but so is everybody else, let's be /comfy/ m8's.

>>42565437
I'm curious about you not getting adequate omega-3's anon, did you not eat flax/chia or were the omega-3's not as effective as their animal counterparts.

>>42566104
Do you have any insight on fatty acids found in vegan foods compared to EPA and DHA?

>>42566165
Why hemp over pea?
Lactose intolerant so I can't fuck with whey.

Can someone tell me what those proteins were that vegans struggle to get?

There is like 2 or more proteins that are especially hard to get enough of when you go full plant diet but are very easy to get if you eat meat.

>>42566469
Methionine and lysine, the latter can be found easily in beans and legumes and meth can be found in nuts and oats.
Not vegan so there might be easier sources than I know.
The other 7 are found in practically everything though.

>>42566517
Thankyou non-vegan-bro

>>42566465
never had pea but have heard good things. hemp is highest in fiber so i've been using that

>>42566727
Pea appears to have a more complete amino profile and is cheaper, apparently tastes like shit though.
Am a fan of fiber gains though, how well does hemp mix/taste?

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>never hated vegans
>read some of their posts ITT
>IQ decreases by 50
>realize 99% of them rely on isolated studies and anecdotal pseudoscientific studies to back everything they say
>literally stroking each other to every empowering comment to cows they say.
>realize they're basically SJW-tier hippies.

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>>42566759

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>>42566739
never had it straight up actually. don't think it would taste very good or very bad. i mix it in with the Joe Rogan Kale shake every day instead.

>>42566759
Of course vegans are super faggots it took you this long to realize it

>>42566771

>posts le meme image without any argument whatsoever

rly fires up the neurons

>>42566786
Apples don't seem very nutritious but other than that it seems fine, I have no idea what a salad size of kale is though.
Would throw some flax or chia seeds in their for both fiber and omega gains.

>>42566818
apple is a must... or else it taste like shit because of the garlic.

>>42566832
Rather throw a kiwi in there for vitamins or a banana for potassium gains, what do apples have?
Not trying to shit on you using an apple just really don't know what nutrition they give.

>>42566818
Sweet fuck, Lad. Watch his interviews with Ronda Patrics asap.

Apples are the tits and actually help you build and maintain muscle.

>>42566857
Can't watch videos on my fantastic American internet.
Apples are shit tier when it comes to practically all minerals and vitamins.
Nutrition is more complicated than that though so I admit I know nothing in regard to what you are talking about, anyway I can read a transcript or something?

If my post ends in a number below 50 I don't order pizza. This is completely irrelevant to OP.

>>42566465
>>42566444
>>42566165
>>42566141
>>42566104
>>42564850
>>42563083
>>42563004
>>42562207
>>42562191
I have been convinced about the ethical and environmental arguments for veganism, but not completely for health.
For starters, please post affordable and easily available good vegan sources of DHA and EPA. In b4 walnuts, flax, chia etc. From what I understand, those provide omega 3 in the form of ALA, but our bodies are very bad and inefficient at converting ALA to EPA and DHA. And I couldn't find an affordable supplement, unlike with B12. What I found was something like 15€/month, which I'd rather spend on fish. Plus fish don't feel pain from what I've researched so it's not unethical to kill and eat them

>>42568626
That really isn't expensive however fish can't feel anything, they don't have a brain complex enough to feel pain nor to really observe.
All they can do is be stressed and learn a couple routines to react to stress, they aren't much different than certain plants.

Vegans generally argue that sentience in itself has value, which is something I don't believe in.
I like the argument that needless suffering shouldn't be done, but in the case of fish and insects they don't suffer.
From a purely health standpoint as long as you don't eat tuna all the time and other large predators that get all the nasties then I believe that pescotarian is your best bet.

This is coming from a guy who posted some of the things you replied to, I'm not vegan but there are legitimate benefits to the diet, which can be said for many diets that are toted around here.
Do what's you mane.

>>42566193
>>Even more not reading
Livestock is being fed mostly soy and grains, not expensive organ meats, milk and eggs.

>>42564709
>why-americas-best-olympic-weightlifter-is-vegan

That's a low fucking standard. What's next? Why americas smartests kid with Down syndrome is vegan?

>>42568649
Imagine paying 50¢ a day for every single vitamin, mineral, amino acid, fatty acid etc. That's fucking expensive.

>>42568702
15 dollar per month for all the nutrients I need per day? That's a fucking steal.

>>42568711
>I literally can't read

>>42568730
>I literally can't deduce
If that's the only vitamin he needs to go out of his way for then 15 dollars a month isn't bad at all anon.
B12 is the only other one and it's too cheap.

>>42568730
If you're talking about paying 0.50$ for every single supplement, you're just plain wrong.

B12 (10µg) is 0.01825$ per dose (2.19$ per 120 pills) for me.
D3 (20µg) is 0.01333$ per dose (4$ per 300 pills) per dose.
Most supplements are vegan anyway, so you're usually not paying more than the average person. The only notable exception is algae oil and that's because it's a relatively new technology.

>>42568626
>What I found was something like 15€/month, which I'd rather spend on fish
If you're eating fish just for the EPA and DHA, you're still cheaper off buying an algae oil supplement for 15$ a month (0.50$ per dose) instead of spending 1.50$ on canned tuna per day. Let's not forget that most contaminants (DDT, methylmercury, HCB, etc.) in fish are fat soluble, so if you're eating a lot of fish you're getting a lot of those contaminants due to biomagnification.

>Plus fish don't feel pain from what I've researched so it's not unethical to kill and eat them
Fish have nociceptors and brains just like we do. They may not process that pain in the same way in we do, but does that make it ethical for us to kill them when we don't need to?

>>42568868
thats a very low dose of D3, I take over 10 times that amount. don't go by RDA, thats an awful guide

>>42568868
>Fish have nociceptors and brains just like we do. They may not process that pain in the same way in we do, but does that make it ethical for us to kill them when we don't need to?
I don't find having a brain is anything special, and since they can't feel suffering on any meaningful level I don't find it unethical.
An ending of a life isn't innately a bad thing imo.

Curious about that algae though, how well research/are we sure it gives us plenty of EPA/DHA.
Not too trustworthy of fish oil due to contaminants and possible shelf-life issues.

>>42568868
>>42568928
The only ones I'm seeing are pretty expensive and each dose is only like ~200 mg omega-3's, which is a terribly low dose for the money you're paying.
Hopefully there are cheaper sources than what I'm seeing, or maybe we just haven't gone to a point where it's affordable.

>>42568909
Be careful not to get hypervitaminosis D bro.

>>42568928
>they can't feel suffering on any meaningful level I don't find it unethical
Does this mean you also don't find it unethical to kill humans with lesser cognitive functions (e.g. people with Down syndrome)?

>Curious about that algae though, how well research/are we sure it gives us plenty of EPA/DHA.
http://jandonline.org/article/S0002-8223(08)00512-9/abstract
>These results indicate that algal-oil DHA capsules and cooked salmon appear to be bioequivalent in providing DHA to plasma and red blood cells and, accordingly, that algal-oil DHA capsules represent a safe and convenient source of non–fish-derived DHA.

Most people don't realize it, but the DHA and EPA fish get from their diet comes from algae.

>>42569010
what do you think about abortion, vegan anon?

>>42569010
People with Down Syndrome can feel suffering and pain.
A better analogy would be is it ethical to kill a human vegetable, which I would say yes since they can't feel or think.

Glad to hear about the algae, still can't find anything that's even close to being affordable though.

one thing I'm certain of is b12 deficiency is one of the most severe things ever. I had severe blood pressure issues. mental health issues. I think a lot of this conflicting nutritional research (ex sat fat cholestrol being bad) has something to do with people being b12 deficient. that might be why some people aren't affected by it.

I think a lot of people are b12 deficient and it's a slippery slope.

>>42557236
It's whole food plant based diet OP. And for environmental heath too. Unless somehow we acquire some kind of tech that suck out methane from atmosphere in large quantity and put it back into our soil.

File: Chicken Joe Umezu.jpg (86KB, 1456x609px) Image search: [Google]

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This will be the future

>>42568702
My supplement bill is like $25 for a year though
(B12, D3, DHA)

>>42557236
>incomplete proteins
>poor bioavailability
>high risk of deficiency in iron calcium and b12
Sounds like a perfect diet for weak nu/fit/

>>42569088
that is one wacky manga and mine of reaction images

>>42569336
>incomplete proteins
>poor bioavailability
broscience level stupid
>high risk of deficiency in iron calcium and b12
eat some vegetables and take a b12 pill per week. omg so difficult

>>42568868
>If you're talking about paying 0.50$ for every single supplement, you're just plain wrong.
I was justifying why 15€/month is a bad deal. Imagine if every nutrient needed 15€/month to supplement. That's what I said. It's a hypothetical.
>B12 (10µg) is 0.01825$ per dose (2.19$ per 120 pills) for me.
Cheapest I've found is 6¢ per day from Amazon co uk
>D3 (20µg) is 0.01333$ per dose (4$ per 300 pills) per dose.
Haven't looked into that
>If you're eating fish just for the EPA and DHA,
The thing is, if I eat some fish I also get D3, and B12, and some creatine, and protein too etc. It's a very nice package that covers a lot of holes with just a few g of fish per day
> 1.50$ on canned tuna per day
Tuna costs 80¢ per can and there are way cheaper fish like mackerel, herring and sardines. Plus it's too lean, I wouldn't use it as an EPA and DHA source. And it has lots of mercury. And it tastes like stanky pussy. I wouldn't eat it.
>Fish have nociceptors and brains
Yes
>just like we do.
Not quite *just* like us
>They may not process that pain in the same way in we do,
I'm pretty sure they don't process pain at all, some anon had posted a source from Cambridge university saying so, but I'm open to another source you may have
>but does that make it ethical for us to kill them when we don't need to?
Need is a strong word. I wouldn't say when don't need them. Am I supposed to explain to my hypothetical 5 year old son that pills and powders in shakes are better than a small tasty fish that looks like a normal people meal?

>>42569407
>Am I supposed to explain to my hypothetical 5 year old son that pills and powders in shakes are better than a small tasty fish that looks like a normal people meal?
Normal people are wrong, son. Almost everyone you meet in life is an idiot.

>>42569426
you should check the meaning of normal

>>42569426
>>42569442
and I'm not against you but we have to keep pushing message that the amounts of meat we eat are ridiculous and not healthy

>>42569371
>broscience level stupid
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26224750
>eat some vegetables and take a b12 pill per week. omg so difficult
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5188422/
>The use of supplements or fortified foods seems to prevent deficiencies, indicating that a well-planned plant-based diet has proven to be adequate and sustainable [112,113]. However, despite the use of fortified foods, deficiency over a period of five years could occur, demonstrating a continuing insufficient intake or a possible decline in the absorptive capacity due to aging

Why don't you post pics or vid of lifts since smarts aren't your strong points.

>>42569452
there is a difference between that and going full retard/vegan anon.
balance is the key word here.

Veganism is the final redpill

>>42559917

The reason why B12 supplementation is required is because modern water purifying techniques (fluroide/chlorine etc) kill B12 containing microbes and bacteria. Animals don't produce B12 naturally and they require supplementation as well (see: >>42563050), so as a meat eater you're essentially supplementing B12 anyway but just through proxy.

>>42569426
I'd like an answer to the rest of my post anon too, especially if I am to stop eating fish. So far, vegan posters on /fit/ and binging youtubers like Jon Venus, VG, Unnatural Vegan and Mic the Vegan has shown me that there is literally no benefit or need to eat meat, eggs and dairy. I'm pretty much disgusted by now and felt like shit eating a meat lovers pizza last night. Probably the last one desu. But I haven't found a single good argument against eating a herring or a can of sardines every day.

>>42569577
Vegan diets don't typically provide enough zinc, iron and choline, and even a small amount of animal flesh in a meal can enhance the absorption of zinc and iron from plant sources by up to several hundred percent. Getting enough choline from plants can only be achieved within a very restrictive eating pattern, however vegans MAY have lower needs of choline, because choline requirements are probably at least partially related to intake of saturated fat, total fat, refined sugar and alcohol (but human data doesn't exist, this is extrapolated from mechanistic analysis)

Vegan diets also don't usually provide enough calcium. While pre-agricultural humans probably consumed 1-2 grams of calcium per day primarily from vegetables, eating that amount of vegetables today can be unappealing, expensive and time-consuming because as modern peoples we don't actually usually spend 90% of our waking day collecting and eating food.

Vegan diets also provide a different amino acid profile that probably has positive and negative aspects to it. People always talk about "protein" but the actual amino acid composition can have a meaningful impact on many systems in the human body.

B12, DHA, EPA, iron, zinc, calcium, choline, iodine can all be supplemented but that's a pretty big stack

>>42569577
>Youtubers and random retards on fit that also post anti vaxx anti fluoride and vegan shitposters shape my opinions
I really hope you never procreate and that five year old kid stays hypothetical.

>>42569663
>iron, zinc, calcium, choline, iodine can all be supplemented
Lentils, chickpeas and broccoli provide all of those in more than adequate amounts though

>>42569695
If that's supposed to be a well articulated argument for eating beef, I'm not buying it

>>42569709
It's a well articulated argument for why you shouldn't procreate.

>>42569718
Lol k man, guess I should "let you dictate" my thoughts too

>>42569799
You're an idiot and the fact that you can't see it is frightening thankfully you're not in a position of power nor will you be.

>>42569828
>I found tons of credible sources online against meat, dairy and egg consumption, and I didn't find any for
>>You're an idiot
>Anon why
>>Your an idiot
>Please explain
>>Ur an dum dum
>Are you having a stroke anon
>>Dnsohdznzkwn

>>42565437

veganism is like not drinking water because you could eventually drown in it

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>>42569886
>>I found tons of credible sources
>vegan posters on /fit/ and binging youtubers like Jon Venus, VG, Unnatural Vegan and Mic the Vegan
>credible sources

>>42570036
>Youtubers and vegan posters never back up their talk with peer reviewed literature, they exclusively talk out of their anemic ass. Not like I could check the video description or w/e

>>42570083
Why don't you post them then you dumb cuck ?

Your dick gets smaller tho

WFPB diets are the best. It's the easiest way to guarantee you won't die from what every other fat, stupid westerner is dying from- CVD, diabetes, obesity, cancer.

The primary work to be done is how to reduce environmental risk factors- for cancer, for heavy metal poisoning which can lead to neurodegenerative brain diseases, - what are the best ways to cook food to reduce production of carcinogens, how to best filter water, which plants tend to be contaminated like hijiki,...

You won't remember this in 10 years, but it's something you need to consider. In ten years, you're going to be overweight. In ten years, your joints are going to hurt. In ten years, if you're lucky enough to make it to the doctor- it's going to be suggested you start buying drugs, for your cholesterol for your depression, for your anxiety, for your blood sugar, and for your erectile dysfunction. I don't want you to put yourself through that. That's why I recommend a wfpb vegan diet.

>>42570224
Oh sweetie you need to go back to Facebook.

>>42570083
>one paper saying one thing about mortality rates in mongolian gerbils can be generalised to humans
all those people you've listed have been blown the fuck out by others who actually understand how to read scientific papers and so know that a paper or even several don't prove shit. there is no scientific reason beyond very specific and experimental disease treatments to go vegan. all the research boils down to trade-offs, a vegan diet can be protective in some ways but can also be harmful in others. the only reasons to go vegan are all utter moralfaggotry

>>42569486
kek, abstract-warrior strikes again

>>42569663
idk, i easy meet daily needs all of these (read: multiples of RDA, like iron is around 4-5x rda, calcium 2x, zinc 3x, etc), except for b12 and dha of course, which are supplemented.

>>42570364
>not eating proven carcinogens is now harmful
you heard it here first, /fit/

>>42557236
yes. according to basically any reputable (no, not westonaprice) medical organizations its the healthiest diet.

See the medical guidelines from these orgs
WHO: http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs394/en/

Harvard Medical:
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-eating-plate/

Google x reputable org from y country and check their healthy eating guidelines. It's all very similar because the science is similar. They all recommend what is essentially 90% a plant based diet, only reason it's not 100% is because they would never recommend people to go fully vegan because that would be too "extreme". It's easier to say limit than stop. Even american college of cardiology said flat out that plant based diets are optimal for preventing heart disease in one of their statements.


> Research shows that plant-based diets are cost-effective, low-risk interventions that may lower body mass index, blood pressure, HbA1C, and cholesterol levels. They may also reduce the number of medications needed to treat chronic diseases and lower ischemic heart disease mortality rates. Physicians should consider recommending a plant-based diet to all their patients, especially those with high blood pressure, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, or obesity.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/

>Blue zones. What do the longest-living populations eat? Mostly plant based diets. Diet consists of a lot of legumes and plant whole foods.

Also I remember some cardiologist's AMA on reddit and he said this:
>There is no question that a diet low in animal fats -- and indeed a vegan diet -- is best from a pure cardiovascular preventive standpoint. Some of those diets have actually been shown to reverse progression of plaques in arteries.

>>42570687
>Google x reputable org from y country and check their healthy eating guidelines. It's all very similar because the science is similar. They all recommend what is essentially 90% a plant based diet, only reason it's not 100% is because they would never recommend people to go fully vegan because that would be too "extreme". It's easier to say limit than stop.
Most recommend zero cholesterol and/or as little saturated fat as possible. Basically the politically correct version of "stop eating animal products"

>>42570492
kek, no argument strikes again

I fail to see problem with veganism and "lmao nogains". As long as you consume enough calories and protein, you will make gains. Plant based or not. Just eat

>>42571870
Why no time stamped photos then or videos of lifts being posted? In the last couple of months with this surge of vegan shitposting only one guy posted and he was some sub 16 inch fatceps with poverty squat bench and an average deadlift.

>>42571907

I don't know. I'm not that guy.

You can easily look up vegan bodybuilders or atlethes. This whole idea of eating meat being the sole way to gains is pure ignorance

>>42571941
No one wants to look up some roided up faggot as a baseline.

>>42557236
Will eating lots of vegetables improve my shits?

>>42562902
Why is it a retarded statement? Can you name a herbivore on the level of wolves, dolphins, squid, pigs, and crows? The only intelligent herbivore I can think of period is elephants.

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>>42557784
>>catalyzes light code activation as the sun carries information and plants are liquid light

>tfw vegetarian but eat eggs daily
>and fish and chicken once every 2 months or so
I'm literally god-tier. Bow fools

>>42573550
oh man, like you wouldn't believe.

>>42571981
but everyone not on roids is dyel by /fit/ standards..

>>42557668
but blue whales are on that seafood diet tho