Rippetoe looks like shit

>>42536518
he looks like an average blue collar dad

>>42536518
it's called starting strength not starting cutie pie basics.

>>42536978
> newfag comes to /fit/ to look good
> people recommend SS
> Newfag is shocked when he has big legs, a decent chest but no arms or back

Retards swear by SS but it's fucking awful for people trying to look good

>>42536518
If you read the book there's a section at the end for accessories

While I agree that Rip is a retard, looks don't say anything about someones ability as a coach.

Just look at boris sheiko, one of the best powerlifting coaches on the planet

>>42536518
This is obv. a bait thread but for the people who legitimately swallow the meme

>Strength coach in his fifties does not look like an athlete!
> Wow he doesn't know shit about "exercising" and losing weight!
absolute, perfect logic

>>42536518
I have no idea why Mark Stupidhoe gets shilled by so many people on the internet. I guess he probably gives good advice for bodybuilders and powerlifters, but 98% of people who go to the gym don't want to become bodybuilders or powerlifters, they go because they want to be healthy and look good.

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>>42536518
He's old you faggot, here he is young

>>42537465
Is this real?

>>42537478
yeah, now drink a gallon of milk a day and squat 3 times a week

>>42537478
Never been confirmed, might be roger estep but people on the ss forum who know mark say it's him

>>42537478
no its some bodybuilder

>>42537478

it's not rippetoe

>>42536518

>"A real man should weigh at least 200 pounds"
>"Luckily that applies to me because of my gigantic gut"

>>42537465

That's not Rip buddy.

>>42537000

how long do you think it takes to look good, faggot?

6 months? If it were that easy everyone would do it.

It takes years of lifting to look good. 4 months of T-Rex mode isn't going to kill you if it means you can more easily transition to a hypertrophy program

SS is FANTASTIC for people trying to look good because you need to be strong in order to do a program that will make you look good.

this fucking board i swear to god

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>>42537013
pfft, no one's read that here.

>>42537510
>>42537516
>>42537528
>>42537576
It's rip you idiots

>>42537587

The only valuable advice SS provides is to work out hard focusing on heavy compounds.

It's one step above men's fitness.

>>42537643

It isn't though.

>>42536518
If you had actually read the book then you would have known it has a huge chapter for assistance exercises, even how you should do curls. Chins are already a part of SS so you will laso get bicep work from that

He also spoke about 4th set of 8 reps if the volume is not enough, and you want more muscle growth. I cant remember if that was in practical programming or in an article.

>>42537670

So the thorough scientific examination of the mechanics of each major compound lift, explanation on execution, cues for fixing common problems and diagrams don't mean anything?

>dyels really think SS is bullshit

>>42536518
>>"do NOT do any accessory work, they are worked enough while you do squats"
>"stay away from bicep curls, because your biceps are already getting plenty of work during deadlifts"

confirmed for not reading the book

>>42537587
>Need be strong to look good
>Never working on arms means they don't get stronger
How am I supposed to get good looking arms with SS dumbo

>>42537440
>98% of people who go to the gym don't want to [build muscle] or [get stronger].
In what way is this a criticism of Mark, you stupid cunt?

>>42536518

>"SS
SS is not a sound beginner programme, it will start you out on how to effectively train and get you some noob gains - that's all beginner routines are supposed to do. It doesn't get people to look jacked in clothes? Well, no shit.

> and GOMAD"
Just because most dyels on here are 40% whales doesn't mean there aren't skellies around that eat under 2000kcal/day and make eating a sandwich look like being forced to eat hot coals. And even they probably shouldn't do gomad for more than a month.

>"do NOT do any accessory work, they are worked enough while you do squats"
You haven't read the book.

>"stay away from bicep curls, because your biceps are already getting plenty of work during deadlifts"
"Getting plenty of work during deadlifts, rows and chin-ups," and I agree. Sure, if you want 16" arms anytime soon as a beginner arms you'll have to curl. Sure, curling in moderation won't interfere with your main lifts. But: noobs are retards and if they get told "you can curl occasionally" they hear "curls: all day, every day." Dyels have problems with compliance, best not to temp them at first - not like they will their shot at mister Olympia because they started curling and doing calf raises 6 months after they could've.

>"squat everyday because it releases test to make your other muscles bigger"
>everyday
Ok, nvmd. Fell for the bait.

>>42537865
SS includes chin-ups. Not to mention no one is stopping you from throwing in curls.

>>42537865
I did all kinds of splits for two years, but my wife didn't start spontaneously complimenting my arms until I started doing SS a couple months ago. Most of your arm mass is triceps and you get lots of tricep work through bench and OHP. Chins work biceps. Deadlifts hit forearms. You can't get big arms doing 30 lbs dumbbell curls 3x10 and eating 300 kcal above maintenance nor can you get appreciably stronger doing things that way. It's a fucking trap. Progressive overload is the key, especially if you haven't already taken full advantage of your novice gains potential.

Am I stoked about my pot belly from doing a proper bulk? No. Am I stoked about adding 60 lbs to my bench in 8 weeks and outgrowing the chest and sleeves on all my shirts? You better believe it. And when I've finished SS, I can trim back down and launch into a high volume routine with enough STRENGTH for that volume to be meaningful and productive. There's no reason not to start with a linear progression program and SS is a fantastic option.

>>42536518
His dad could beat up your dad

>>42537865

You can't get big *anything* until you're strong enough to lift that kind of weight.

SS is the fastest way to reach that baseline level of strength.

>>42538823
I think SS is a decent programme and Rip is getting a lot of unwarranted criticism (he is a know it all idiot sometimes, though.)
But your story is bullshit:

>I did all kinds of splits for two years, but my wife didn't start spontaneously complimenting my arms until I started doing SS a couple months ago
Nigga how retarded do you need to be to train for 2 years and still be at a stage where doing a low volume linear overload beginner programme will get you noticeable gains?

>You can't get big arms doing 30 lbs dumbbell curls 3x10 and eating 300 kcal above maintenance
Sure, not with 30lbs, but is your implication that you can't get big bis with curls? That's idiotic.

>Am I stoked about my pot belly from doing a proper bulk?
With any disicple, even an advanced natty lifter has no reason to ever, ever be above 20%BF.
>Am I stoked about adding 60 lbs to my bench in 8 weeks
Confirmed for dyel.
>outgrowing the chest and sleeves on all my shirts
It's called getting fat or being a faggot that wears skintight clothes.

There's no shame in just having started to lift, congratulations. But don't fucking larp as an experienced lifter and don't give out advice until you know what you're talking about.

>>42538917
You're a precious little twat that doesn't deserve a reply, but here you go.
>Your story is bullshit
It isn't. I have no reason to lie and I'm not e-statting.
>Nigga how retarded do you need to be to train for 2 years and still be at a stage where doing a low volume linear overload beginner programme will get you noticeable gains?
Pretty retarded. I should've started with SS, but like many people who want to be aesthetic above all and failed to do adequate research, I spent way too long doing high rep schemes with bitch weight and not eating enough because I didn't want to get fat. Surprise: I didn't get fat, but I didn't get strong or built either. You can't build muscle lifting light weights. I was retarded. People here should learn from my mistake.
>is your implication that you can't get big bis with curls?
Lmao you stupid fuck. No, the implication is that lightweight isolations will not give you big muscles. This is why you need linear progression. Greater strength = heavier lifts, leads to higher volume = bigger muscles.
>With any disicple [sic], even an advanced natty lifter has no reason to ever, ever be above 20%BF.
Well I'm not advanced, so let's set that aside from the start. I'm also not 20% bf. As a typical male, my body likes to store fat on my gut and if you eat 3,500 cal/day starting at 170 lbs at 5'11", you're going to gain some fat in addition to muscle. Making my peace with that was the first step on the road to real gains.
>Confirmed for dyel.
Post body.
>It's called getting fat or being a faggot that wears skintight clothes.
It's called lifting heavy and eating will mean medium t-shirts stop being comfortable after a few months.
>don't fucking larp as an experienced lifter and don't give out advice until you know what you're talking about.
I think you're the LARPer, friend. It's pretty funny that you criticize Mark as a know-it-all, then spew a bunch of self-righteous shit here about how nobody but you can speak about lifting.

Rippetoe is also cripppled and can't deadlift or squat without knee wraps and a belt

>>42539158
>I spent way too long doing high rep schemes with bitch weight and not eating enough
That's exactly my point. SS worked for you 2 years into lifting because you were lifting like shit - you are saying so yourself so why are you butt-hurt when somebody else points it out?

>Lmao you stupid fuck.
Deal with that unprovoked hostility, will 'ya.

>disicple [sic]
Also on the autism.

The point is: people who shit on SS for being "just a beginner programme" are idiots, people who mistake it for something to come back to even later on ie. confuse high-intensity blocks with linear overload are just as bad. You made it sound like you think just that.

>you criticize Mark as a know-it-all
Fuck off, I like him as a person and everything: But he likes to play the contrarian even when it makes no sense and he loves to surround himself with yes-men who parrot only what he likes to hear.

>>42539158
>I didn't get fat
>>42538823
>pot belly

>not fat
>pot belly
sure thing.

>>42539369
You didn't point out anything. You accused me of pretending to be an advanced lifter when my entire point was that I wasn't and that I made mistakes when starting out years ago. You accused my story of being bullshit because you're just bad at reading.

>>42539386
I'm currently 186 lbs at 5'11. That's not fat.

>>42537865

>Someone who benches / rows 2pl8s for reps and does +45lb. weighted chins doesn't have strong arms

the fucking DYEL on this sub is too much for me

>>42539387
>You accused my story of being bullshit because you're just bad at reading.

>>42538823
>I did all kinds of splits for two years, but my wife didn't start spontaneously complimenting my arms until I started doing SS a couple months ago.
Ie: "I trained for two years but SS still got me benefits."

If you had said, "I did all kinds of broish/improper/men's health splits" or something then I would have gotten the point.

>>42539406
When you say "pot belly," that kinda implies being fat. That's like saying "I'm short as fuck" (while being 6') and then getting mad that someone takes your exaggeration as fact.

>>42539441
>this sub
?

>>42539593

swag

>>42539606
>swag
?

>>42537587
>6 months?
Actually if you're starting off skinnyfat and put as much effort into benching, OHPing, rowing, chins, and curls 3x a week as SS followers put into squats and hit legs once a week then you'd look pretty decent after about 6 months.

It's exactly the same how if you do SS for 6 months you'll have started to build some pretty decent quads. Are they amazing? No, but they still don't look dyel.

You won't be big, or shredded, but you won't look dyel, and by normie standards you'd look muscular.

>>42539668
Lol nope. This is pure delusion. You will still be dyel even by normie shit standards

it doesn't matter how much "accesstory" work you do, the main problem with SS is that you squat DOUBLE the amount of times you train your upper body. Not only this, but because our legs are so huge in comparison to our bodies, they respond the fastest to growth. If you want to look good DO NOT every session, instead squat once a week

>>42539567
You're suggesting that people are either cut with blocky abs or obese. That's a false dilemma. Makes me think you don't actually lift and you're here role playing.

>>42539685
So you can get decent legs and 6 months doing some hard squats 3x a week, but not a decent upper body doing a hard upper workout with compounds? That's funny, because that's exactly what I did after SS and got way better gains.

Though I didn't do any lower body work because they were way out of proportion. I can tell you just started lifting not too long ago on SS and respond to these threads to convince yourself you made the right choice. Just know that there are way better options out there, and that the dogma you've learned browsing the SS forums isn't always the best COA.

>>42539741
>train for a year
> thus my theory for 6 months to look good will work
Are you okay?

Been lifting for three years you're just making stupid statements.

>>42539777
Where did I say I've trained for a year?
>theory
Try anecdote.

>>42539741
>So you can get decent legs and 6 months doing some hard squats 3x a week, but not a decent upper body doing a hard upper workout with compounds?

Yep. That's because the quads are enormous muscles compared to the ones in your upper body.

>That's funny, because that's exactly what I did after SS and got way better gains.

>after

yawn

>>42539708
No, I'm suggesting that "pot belly" (at least where I'm from) doesn't merely mean "a slight gut" or "no abs showing" but something you can rest a beer on while standing up.

>>42539932
>barely bench 1pl8 for a 1rm coming off 3 months of SS
>bench 2pl8 for triple 5 months later, and a 245lbs bench max 1 month after that

Yeah, it was clearly that great strength base SS got me.

>>42539946
Don't even bother man. The guy is a delusional retard that thinks his arms exploded when he just got fatter.

Further proof is that bench easily goes up in relation to body weight.

A full body program that actually works:

A day -
Bench 3x5, deload 15% and hit 2x10
Bent over rows 3x8
Incline DB 3x10
Tricep pulldowns 3x10
Neutral grip chin-ups 3x5 (into weighted)
Hanging leg raises 3x10

B day-
Squat 3x5, deload 15% and hit 2x10
OHP 3x8, super set one arm upright rows 2x10
Diddlies 1x5
Barbell curls 3x8, superset any DB curl 2x12-15
Hanging leg raises 3x10


5x5s are a meme. You shouldn't do pure 5x5s until the weight is heavy enough to warrant it.

You will never get too much volume from baby weights, even as a beginner. If you're afraid of overtraining on bench with lmao1pl8 then you feel for Rippletits scare tactics.

>>42539997
Dyel

I kinda get a repressed gay vibe from him

>>42540023
Your routine is a little scarce for me but I really like deloading and hitting volume on your big compounds. Going to start incorporating that.

>>42540039
Lmao, that wall you built around your ego telling yourself that your dyel 15in fatceps are bulging mounds of meaty muscle crumbling down?

Enjoy your shit physique and terrible strength proportions when you finish SS ;)

>>42540039
>calling someone a dyel because they don't think SS will make your arms blow up
this is retro simplistic shit-posting, isn't it?

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>>42537478
No but this is

>>42539160
But with straps and a belt he can lift 5pl8 despite being what, in his 50s?

>>42540069
I have no fat on my arms.
>>42540076
He doesn't have any understanding of body composition, despite being given height and weight. He talks about the body the way a JRPG game manual does, with no concept of realistic proportion. I submit that he doesn't even lift.

>>42540023
But starting strength is 3x5
>>42539983
Not everybody is retarded m8 on a cut I reached 205 3x5 on SS and 225 as 1rm at bw of 161

>>42540113
>I have no fat on my arms.

Post 'em big boy ;)

>>42540100
he's 61 now

>>42539873
So you did SS a program that lasts 4-7 months then you did another program, you're not going to stay your upper body exploded in less than another 3-6 months.

So a year estimate is not far off.

>>42540122
Provided you aren't lying your ass off, you're in the extreme minority of people that end up with a decent bench doing SS. I've never seen anyone, even fat GOMAD tards say they got to a 2lp8 bench by doing SS.

I know I'm the opposite and not only had a bad bench, but a shit bench coming off of it, but most people barely hit a bw bench, and that's if they start off a skelly. Fatties seem to stop making gains around 160-190 for working sets.

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>>42540125
Not big. Just bigger than I used to be and getting bigger doing SS. That's progress. Get a load of these fatceps.

Let's see yours, Mr. Physiology Expert.

>>42540179
>http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/mark-rippetoe-q-and-a/15386-zach-update-2.html

>I've never seen anyone, even fat GOMAD tards say they got to a 2lp8 bench by doing SS.
>His bench is at 240 x 5, DL is 325 x 5, press is about 145 x 5, PC is about 176 x 3.

Let me see you backpedal though, saying that well now he looks like shit, when you said even fatties never reach that.

>>42540167
>essentially zero upper body gains for 3 months of SS
>amazing gains over the next 6

Not wasting 3 months on SS would have gotten me nearly identical upper body results. Maybe bump it up to 7 months if I'd forgone SS in the first place for the sake of argument.

>>42540113
>He doesn't have any understanding of body composition

Okay, you're 84.5kg and 1.80cm.
You claim to have a "pot belly."
Let's assume that at the very least that means a BF% of about 20.

That's a FFMI of around 21.
Maybe if the only thing you trained were your arms, you could have anything other than unimpressive fatceps at those stats.

I don't get why you're so upset. You yourself are saying you're on noob gains, and have a pot belly. So why do you insist that you somehow have huge arms? Who gives a fuck.

ONE FINAL TIME FOR THE RETARDS:
SS won't give you huge arms, not because it's a bad programme, but because SS is a beginner programme and beginners don't have huge arms. It's not a fault with the programme.

>>42540203
>literally picking the poster child of SS that had personal coaching by Rip the whole way so he could use him to sell more books and get more retards to take his SS coaching course

File: 1501290502955.png (37KB, 700x600px) Image search: [Google]

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Is pic related a better beginner program than SS? Its what I started doing a couple weeks ago.

>>42540210
Post pic lets see these amazing gains of a guy that didn't do any lower body after 3 months of not getting gains.

Also what bw/height are you? Because you're sounding like the teens that do push ups here and there and think their low body weight makes them look juicy.

>>42540198
>Not big.
Agreed (also probably about 15-20%BF), and you spent all this time arguing that SS gives you big arms. What the fuck is even going on?

>>42540227
>literally not an argument.

>>42537632
kek

>>42540234
GSLP works better for most non-athletes than SS. But there isn't that huge a difference when you compare it to SS+chins.

>>42540234
better is subjective and depends on goals but i think Greyskull is great

>>42540234
I like SS for beginners due to the simplicity of it and Rippletits posting a book to perform lifts safely etc etc...

However I think as long as you do your compounds, get your diet in place alongside sleep and you go to the gym 3+ times per week then any program should work.

I see nothing inherently wrong with your program.

>>42540215
I'm not 20% body fat and I don't have fatceps. >>42540198

And I didn't say I had huge arms. I said my wife didn't start spontaneously complimenting my arms until I started SS after having spent too long on splits lifting baby weight. That's a fact. I tell her she's crazy and that they aren't big, but she insists they are. I mention it as an indicator that you do develop arms doing SS, despite what some people here will tell you.

My belly is bigger than I would like. Why are you being so autistic about my word choice. "Soft." How's that?

Still waiting for you to post body, btw.

>>42540203
He's a retard. I'm nearing 2pl8 bench now. I hit 190 3x5 this week on SS, which was a fun milestone since it means my bench exceeds my bodyweight.

>>42540242
BigGER arms. I started out Auschwitz mode.

>>42540100

so what, strength is pretty easy to maintain until you are in your mid-late 60s. I know a few older guys in their 50-60s who were so strong they'd put everyone on this board to shame, without even trying.

>>42540374
Except there's a video of rip lifting 5pl8 and you could be making shit up just because you hate SS.

>>42540179
I got to a 2.5pl8 bench doing SS.

You absolute fucking retard. The point of SS is to quickly build strength for BEGINNERS, thats why it´s called STARTING Strength you illiterate cunt. The program IS benefical even if your goal is pure hyperthrophy because doing it and getting stronger allows you to use heavier loads for your volume work later on.
Upping your numbers is absolutely vital, something fucktard DYELS like you forget. You think 10-12 reps for "lol i dunno whatever burns" is gonna get you anywhere?
Let me guess, you have been using the same dumbbells for chest for half a fucking year and cant figure out why your pecs won't grow? Because you have no progress you tard.
You don't track your reps, don't know what volume it added up to and you´re not even trying to get stronger. Good luck getting swole with a fucking 1,5 plaet bench.
You should have done your basics, kept at it and added volume on the side but no, you copied some fucking 5split trashprogram with pics of zyzz on it didnt you.
Keep pushing those 45 lbs dumbbells around brah, at least you´ll have a decent pump and a "burn" to help you keep your delusion up. Stay forever fucking dyel.

What I don't get is how Rip has a cult following:

>Says he's a shit athlete multiple times
>Calls out fatties and skinnies
>says he doesn't give a shit about getting people abs
>calls vegans, vegeterians people with food disorders
>calls smokers cocksuckers and hopes they die quicker
>never trained any medal winners has however trained athletes
>says his methods are not something innovative multiple times
It seems with nowadays pussy western society and fad routines he should not be as popular as he is.

The only reasons I can think of are his methods work, he does have good understanding of bio-mechanics even though people won't read his book and people are sick of fake natties selling them lies.

>>42540290
This is what I'm thinking. Instead of listening to a bunch of nerds online who want to have an autism fight over what cult program provides the greatest GAINZ EVERRR, maybe just be sane and realize that lifting heavy, eating right, and sleeping enough will make you gain muscle. All of these programs are the same fucking thing with very minor differences in workouts anyway.

My FUCKING DAD is a 50 year old man with abs and 20'' arms and he spends like 35 minutes in the gym 4 times a week and every time I bring a girl to my parents she just has to talk about how good he looks. Also he is a fucking doctor so I figure he knows more than you broscience shitting virgins.

>eat a lot of healthy foods
>lift heavier every time you can
>sleep like a bb
>GASP you can even use machines for some shit

This board is so fucking hilarious
>SQUATS SUCK FUCK YOU RIPPLETITSTST
>NO SQUATS ARE GOD SUCK RIPLLES DIKKK

and the guy meanwhile is living his life and could give a fuck about you idiots

>>42540203
>176lb PC after training
How? My deadlift was around the same when I did my first ever power clean and maxed out at 180 while weighing 180. Is American oly lift coaching really as bad as people say?
>inb4 obsessed
I'm also Amerifat, just never listened to American coaches

two dyels arguing on /fit/

>>42540125
I would post a picture of my body to prove you wrong, but I could be identified based on my scars (used to be involved with a fight club, stabbed multiple times) and my gang affiliated tattoos from when I spent 10 years in one of the toughest prisons in the country (I’m, probably, in the top priority list of the FBI right now).

I know your type, though. You think because you can squat and deadlift heavy that you're a big guy with an impressive physique. I have built plenty of muscle without those autistic lifts. You probably think you're superior because you follow the routines of a fat little redneck man with no real knowledge of building muscular or strength. You don’t know shit about muscles and strength if you have not trained the way I had, I literally learned from the best, and you got no shit on me, you fat autistic neckbeard.

>>42540542
Do you wanna post a video of your PC? let's see em.
>Inb4 I don't take video and I no longer do PCs
Which is literal bullshit since every Oly guy takes videos to improve technique

>>42540552
Good pasta, bad timing. Does remind me though that >>42540215 still hasn't posted body.

>>42540552
Is this a new pasta or is this Kali muscle on fit?

>>42540590
It's been making the rounds for a few days, yes.

>>42540538
Your dad is likely on trt and has test levels twice as high as you

>>42540552
lol this has to be pasta
>You think because you can squat and deadlift heavy that you're a big guy with an impressive physique. I have built plenty of muscle without those autistic lifts.

wtf lel

Bad bait, noone that hates on Mark has ever dared to post a pic of themselves.

Shitpost less, lift more.

>>42540575
>sorry mate don't powerclean anymore
Sure, just give me a few. I'd actually enjoy some critique. 185 is easy for me now, though. I did actually stop training PC after a month (about 4-5 months ago) and only got to 210 for a ORM. Not sure where I'm at now.

>>42540640
It's actually true, those are the typical lifts that you see an autistic guy doing at the gym. I've never needed them, no one does, they are just as retarded as that fat little neckbeard rippleshit.

>>42540654
It doesn't matter though Mark himself says he doesn't care about abs if they want to prove him wrong they need to be stronger

>>42540575
Also just re-read what you said, I only have a video of me doing 135 in my garage. I'll take a new one doing 185

>>42540661
If you actually post vid and you power cleaned that you have some explosive genes and it's a waste for you not to do oly lifts.

>>42540623
lol
>test levels

jesus fucking christ guys we are all in our 20s (i hope) we all have fucking high testosterone why are you all so fucking retarded

the jews are not stealing your test you just want something to blame for being the big fat PUSSY that you are

>>42540698
I'm talking in pounds, mate. 185 isn't that good. I've always hand strong calves and I focus a lot on shrugs so that would explain it, too

>>42540750
i'm talking about first time doing a bw 180 lbs power clean as first attempt is pretty impressive.

The number isn't even regional level but it is an indicative of a decent starting point.

>>42539983
>3 months of SS
>1 PL8 bench
nigger what the fuck were you doing

>>42540712
Do we always have to bring up the jews

>>42539406
height and weight are not the whole story of being fat

>>42539685
>normie shit standards
you really won't tho

>>42540291
>Why are you being so autistic about my word choice.
Because words are kind of important when trying to understanding what someone is trying to get across. Don't get mad when you're ambiguous and people misunderstand you.

>"Soft." How's that?
That makes sense.

>>42540575
>>42540698
Here's 185, sorry if quality is shit. Phone kept closing when I tried to upload, youtube was my easiest option. I can guarantee that my first time hitting 180 didn't look as smooth as this, though
>>42540776
Ahh I see what you mean. I actually ended up injuring my wrist warming up one day which is why I stopped; tried to catch a bad pull. Just started up again this week, hope I can progress quickly
https://youtu.be/8pejtMvd0Qk

>>42536907
OP already said he looks like shit

>>42541016
So you gonna post body or what? I want to see what a fitness expert looks like.

>>42541379
Was at the gym, pretty good man ,impressive stuff my only complaint is you might be going down a tad close to a clean but honestly that petty level and it's just a smooth power clean.

The only reason I can think of why rippletits star student didnt do that well is either he's not genetically gifted or that he was not fresh for it but still impressive stuff.

>>42540179

Because most people don't do the program correctly. They read the routine online. They don't read the book. They don't apply proper progression. They don't change anything when they stall, they only deload.

It's so simple on the surface but it's a lot of things that you can do wrong if you're not careful.

Even after your first bench stall you probably progress on it for another month or two if you do things correctly. The first stall will also come very late if you do things correctly, well past 3-4 months and even later for some individuals.

Every person I've ever questioned about mediocre SS results has ALWAYS made some significant mistake. No one gets mediocre results if they do it correctly.

>>42540210

You probably fucked it up mate. It I start questioning you I'll find flaws, 100%.

SS has more upper volume than lower.

>>42540234

Daily reminder that this was made by a guy PRETENDING to be a TRAP who he was OBSSSED WITH IRL on a autistic fitness board.

>>42539369
Wtf is wrong with this board now. Anons used to encourage each other. This negative bullshit is pathetic.

>>42542019
Nope. If you're curious: bigger than you - not that has anything to do with whether SS will give you big arms. Or how to use words properly.

>>42542087
He just changed shit up a bit. Not that that prevents it from being a decent programme. Better than SS if you have no one to teach you proper form on cleans.

>>42542332
>Better than SS

People always say this about GSLP but never give good arguments why.

>>42542332
>calls other people DYEL
>calls other people fat
>shits on SS
>won't post body
Every single time.

>>42542342
Arguments don't matter. What matters is results.

>>42542412

And SS has produced a lot more in terms of results than GSLP ever will.

Just because you get the impression on /fit/ that it doesn't work that well doesn't mean it has produced thousands upon thousands very strong individuals, very quickly.

Did you just use that as an example?

>>42542412
Whoa, he's fast!

>>42542434
it hasn't*

fuck

>>42537000
>blaming rip when people rec his programs to the wrong people
Who's the real retard?

>>42542353
>won't post body
Tbf to him I can totally understand not caring enough about an online argument to take pics and post my shirtless body on 4chan at the request of another man. I think SS is great but holy shit bro lol

>>42542342
>but never give good arguments why.
Okay:
>Cleans are harder to learn properly than rows.
Not an issue if you have a coach/mate at hand, but if not: you don't need the complication, bad muscle memory that you have to unlearn later on and increased chance at hurting yourself that learning them wrong will bring
>Alternating deads and squats instead of doing deads along with squats is better.
Keeps your lower body volume more consistent throughout the week and prevents deads taking a hit from being per-fatigued. Never really got the "deads as primarily a back-lift" thing.
>AMRAP is a good idea while on low volume programmes and in general.
It keeps a margin on your deloads so you're less discouraged by fluctuations in from that beginners have, while giving you more precise feedback.

Not a huge difference: as I said both are good beginner programmes. But most people will have a slightly smoother time doing GSLP over SS.

>>42542353
>calls other people DYEL
Anyone on SS is by definition a dyel.
>calls other people fat
Someone who said that they have a "pot belly" ie. central obesity. Which by definition makes you fat.
>shits on SS
Nope. It just won't get you big arms (nor is it supposed to.) No beginner routine will. Because beginners, by definition, are not big.
>won't post body
Not relevant to the conversation, not the kind of guy to get goaded into selfie comparisons.

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>>42540023

Why is your fullbody program a split?

>>42542566
Both days are full body. They're just variations to give different muscles more emphasis on the different day.

Bench: works all your push muscles, with emphasis on chest.
OHP: works all your push muscles, with emphasis on shoulder.

>>42537587
>this

>>42538823

You built a shit routine so bad that SS got you gains.

What a tool.

>>42542551

Part 1/2

>Cleans are harder to learn properly than rows.
True. There's nothing wrong with swapping these out. I actually think Rip would make a non-coach variant with rows if he wasn't old, stubborn and stuck in his way. Most known SS coaches other than Rip will gladly do this substitution if you can't do PC's for WHATEVER reason.

Maybe this is not an argument since it's not in the book, but SS has evolved past the book I feel and there's a lot of great information out there from coaches who has branched out on their own, like Austin Baraki & Jordan Feigenbaum.

>Alternating deads and squats instead of doing deads along with squats is better.
I think you should increase your Squat 3 times per week as long as you can, just because you can. There's little reason not to. It won't create imbalances that people always whine about. After a while when this is unsustainable you start doing light squats on wednesday and move deadlift to the beginning of that workout, and squat to the end.

>>42542551

Part 2/2

>AMRAP is a good idea while on low volume programmes and in general.
Deload in SS operates on the fact that stalling occurs either because of accumulative fatigue or because the 3x5 training stimulus is not enough to make gains any longer, making you an intermediate lifter. You don't deload so you can get stronger while deloading. You deload so you can rest and "realize" your strength when you've moved back up.

The extra volume from AMRAPs are very negligible because of this:

* If you can do more than 5 reps, say 8 for example's sake on the last set, the first two sets are simply too light. You could just increase the weight and skip the AMRAP and get the same volume & more intensity, i.e. more strength gains.
* The AMRAPs always drops down to 5 after a short period regardless, making them mostly useful in a deload scenario which turns the program into an neverending stall cycle sort of. In SS you adjust a ton of variables when you start stalling.
* The progression are pushed down to 2.5 lbs for upper lifts from the get go just to ride the AMRAP wave longer. What's the point if it will still stabilize at 3x5 and the progression rate stays the same? You could've done 5 lbs for longer, moved down to 2.5 lbs later when that got too hard and end up in the same place but much quicker.

Like I said, according to SS, if you do deload because of strength issues you are no longer a novice.

>>42542534
"Post body" is a time honored retort on /fit/ to somebody talking shit on other people's physiques. Too many people abuse the anonymity of the site to try and tear others down on the basis of a fantasy superiority and "post body" cuts that shit off pretty quick. If you don't know that, it's because you're from Reddit.

If you want to come here and put yourself above others, you better be ready to put up or shut up.

>>42542683
>"I made mistakes."
>"Ha you made mistakes!"
Kys

>>42542749
>Maybe this is not an argument since it's not in the book, but SS has evolved past the book I feel and there's a lot of great information out there from coaches who has branched out on their own, like Austin Baraki & Jordan Feigenbaum
It's been discussed to death in his book and forums.
>Like I said, according to SS, if you do deload because of strength issues you are no longer a novice.

That's incorrect as far as I remember you get something like 3 deloads for the squat and diddy and 2 or so for the bench and OHP you also get to have a light day in the middle. I haven't read the book in 3 years now when I started liftan.
>>42542551
>but if not: you don't need the complication
Clean is not complicated it's explained well with plenty of videos by Rip.
>Keeps your lower body volume more consistent throughout the week and prevents deads taking a hit from being per-fatigued. Never really got the "deads as primarily a back-lift" thing.
A novice won't be fatigued enough to require them both being alternated.
>It keeps a margin on your deloads so you're less discouraged by fluctuations in from that beginners have, while giving you more precise feedback.
Deloading so often is just a waste of time and progress.

>>42542733
>but SS has evolved past the book
Sure, but as Rip says "if you change it, it's no longer SS."

>I think you should increase your Squat 3 times per week as long as you can, just because you can...
Using squats to drive your dead like Rip recommends isn't all that different from putting them on a more equal footing volume wise. Even alternating high-bar and deads each session works great. I never noticed the whole "deads burn out your CNS much faster than squats" thing that he keeps insisting on.

>The extra volume from AMRAPs are very negligible because of this...
No argument there.
>What's the point if it will still stabilize...
I may get some flak for this, but I think most beginners are better of staying a bit further south of their MRV. Not ideal, on a physiological level - but motivation and compliance plays the biggest part in the beginning: less chance of being tempted to cheat on your form and ingrain bad habits.
>which turns the program into an neverending stall cycle sort of.
Just make it a range: aim for 5 but don't deload until you hit 3. That might not be GSLP, but it tends to work great for people whose performance varies a lot ie. people who often alternate between working out in the evening and morning.

Those minor tweaks and and differences really depend on the individual, and you can't go very wrong with either: but I think more people that tend to come to /fit/ ie. relatively sedentary people are better served by starting out on GSLP.

>>42542764
>to try and tear others down
Not my style and not what I was doing. Your story was misleading because of vague language and sounded like yet another person that ascribes magical properties to SS and Rip.

>>42537465
that's not him you fucking retard

>>42542869
>That's incorrect as far as I remember

Sorry wasn't too clear about that yes. It's actually a bit more complicated than that. This all from Practical Programming and various SS seminars and videos. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is pretty optimal.

It's 2-3 stalls for squats and 1-2 for upper lifts. Deadlift stalls usually don't happen if the program is done correctly and your form is correct, but you could use the same squat principles.

What determines if it's 2 or 3 for lower? 1 or 2 upper? Basically how many reps you missed, given that you did everything else correctly. If you did something like 1x5, 1x5, 1x4 you can do a normal 10% (or even less) deload and break your plateu with confidence. If you get something like 1x4, 1x3, 1x3, deloading only probably won't help you because it's way too many reps missed and you have to adjust the program.

After you've stalled 2-3 on the squat/deadlift you change to a light day (65-80% of monday) for squats for 2x5 on wednesday starting during your deload period. You also move deadlift first on wednesdays and squat last. You can also start doing all warmups with sets of five on your deadlift if your deadlift is having problems at this stage. This will put more focus on the deadlift without changing the entire program, give you bit of extra volume without heavily impacting recovery.

After you've stalled 1-2 on upper, you deload and change to a 5x5 rep scheme. When the next workout is your old 3x5 weight, i.e. the one before the one you stalled at, you do that workout for 5x3 (5 sets, 3 reps). Next time you do 5x5 with the same weight. Next time you do 5x3 2.5 lbs heavier, next time 5x5 same weight etc.

This will give you a bit slower progression, more similar to TM, but will give you extra volume and allow for a few weeks (or even longer) of upper body progress at a steady rate.

When you start stalling after all these adjustments, you can probably deload one extra time, then you're done.

>>42542869
>Clean is not complicated it's explained well with plenty of videos by Rip.
Most people that learn it by themselves get it wrong. Squats aren't that complicated and yet 80% of squats in commercial gyms are dogshit.

>A novice won't be fatigued enough to require them both being alternated.
My complaint is about stacking them. Plus alternating them is not due to fatigue: just to get in decent practice on both - people that do SS tend to have much worse deadlift form than squat form. Better to be decent at both than good at one and shit at the other.

>Deloading so often is just a waste of time and progress.
Getting off LP due to a couple bad session is the bigger waste. Not sure, been a long time, but as far as I remember it's twice for SS.

>>42542972
>Sure, but as Rip says "if you change it, it's no longer SS."

Like I said, he's old and stubborn. Almost all SS coaches advocates for the changes I mentioned in my previous posts. Don't really care as long as your adjustments make sense and still work on the same foundation.

> less chance of being tempted to cheat on your form and ingrain bad habits.
One of the best ways to cheat on form is high rep sets. Sets of five is a pretty good sweet spot. Medium intensity sets of 2-3 is probably ideal for technique.

I think with all the tweaks I mention here: >>42543025 I see no reason to do GSLP as it solves all the common critiques of SS in a perfectly rational way.

>>42543039
>Not sure, been a long time, but as far as I remember it's twice for SS.

People mix this up all the time. I explain it more clearly here >>42543025 and it's very well explained in Practical Programming.

The 2-3 stall rule is not a rule to stop the program. It's a rule to adjust the program. You only stop after you've stalled after all the proper adjustments has been made which will prolong the program for as long as 1-2 months extra. Even then you can probably keep progressing on a few lifts and only change the programming for a few, most likely the upper lifts, to something TM-ish.

>2017
>people still STILL don't understand how adding weight to your compound movements will grow the accessory muscles involved in said compound movements
>people still shit on SS because they actually did GOMAD while being a fat fuck or tried to cut while being a skinny shitter

>>42543071
>One of the best ways to cheat on form is high rep sets.
Up to 8 reps most people I know still aren't at the "fuck, this hurts" stage that makes them cheat. 7 vs. 8 reps is a bit finer grained (2.7%) than 4 vs. 5 (2.95%) and if you've already got the 5 reps there is less motivation to cheat. Sure, as you've said, that messes with intensity since your 5RM wasn't your 5RM. But if you don't try to ride your CNS gains at optimum efficiency (again, sounds stupid, but helps with eager beavers constantly fucking up form to make the rep) then the volume will be made up by the AMRAP.

>>42543110
>It's a rule to adjust the program.
Yeah, maybe tweaking your programme into "semi-intermediate" works better than drawing a harder line between LP and something like TM. But I read the book years ago and forgot about that, most beginners considering SS haven't ever read it. So I'm afraid it's a point lost on most of them. Again: improving compliance for people who don't bother reading the book and are over-eager trumps maximum efficiency in my book - since most beginner will be that way.

>>42536518
Abs are for pretty boys. We are not pretty boys. We are fucking MONSTERS. (c) Rich Piana

>>42543254
>improving compliance for people who don't bother reading the book and are over-eager trumps maximum efficiency in my book - since most beginner will be that way.

This is probably the best argument against SS I've read.

SS is so simple and basic on the surface, but if you don't read both Starting Strength & Practical Programming and spend some time reading up to date articles, watching videos and such, you can mess up A LOT of things.

Does it matter in the long run as long as you're going heavy, doing mostly compounds and LP? Probably not.
Is it fun to talk about regardless? Yes.

>>42537465
That's rodger estep

>>42543039
80% of people in commercial gyms do splits there is a slight minority that does SS/SL Greyskull etc... and from that slight minority only few read the book cleans are well explained there .

You have no evidence to support your claim and before you try to say stupid anecdotal shit just stop. You have bench/ohp in the middle will give you enough time to be ready for deadlifts.

That's not how it works it's already explained again reloading that much is a waste of time.

>>42543326
The funny part is they did a survey on this and even when the program is not being done as book recommended people were still making gains.

>>42543326
>Does it matter in the long run as long as you're going heavy, doing mostly compounds and LP? Probably not.
Of course not, some weeks I don't watch my macros at all and thunder still didn't strike me out of the blue: but if /fit/ isn't a place to kill time with sophistry then what the hell is it for.

>>42543334
Most people who have started SS and asks questions in QTDDTOT threads ask about shit that's explained in the book. Most people don't read it. Most people don't watch videos of Rip explaining the lifts. Most people don't film their lifts to double-check them. Sure, sink or swim works for some too. And most will figure it out sooner or later. But, fuck mate, so many people get discouraged - better to baby-step them in a bit than expect them to do halfway passable cleans a couple weeks into lifting.

>>42543358
Pretty much anything with compounds, progressive overload, lowish volume and passable form will work for dyels.

The gist of SS vs. GSLP vs. RP5X5 vs. etc.threads on /fit/ is:
>noobs thinking it makes a huge difference
>bored nerds discussing minor and relatively irrelevant differences
But hey, you still occasionally learn something new that has implications beyond the first 6 months of lifting.

>>42543450
If I told you cars are dangerous because a person with no experience can hop in and fuck everyone up then you can rightfully tell me to fuckoff. Same reason here the knowledge is there people are just lazy and then they blame rippletits e.g that fatass on bb.com that did GOMAD when he was obese as shit.

Dunno how we can get over the laziness issue but hey the world is filled with people that will give up after 6-12 months.

SS as a program is good, but only if the following are true:

1) You are a skeleton and eating a fuckton and have very little muscle mass

2) You are a fat shit and eating just enough over maintenance and have very little muscle mass

3) You are skinnyfat/average and have very little muscle mass and are eating a more than the fatty and less than the skelly.

And you only do it for 90 days at a maximum.

Starting strength means starting strength, you are starting... to get strength. Then after you get that start strength and noob gains you RESEARCH/EXPERIMENT/BUILD YOUR OWN ROUTINE. Try different exercises and focus on form to start, then assess your fitness goals and workout what is best for YOU. There is no such thing as a one-size fits all routine, starting strength is just a quick means of getting people who are new to the gym with very little muscle to the point that they can progress.

>>42543358
>>42543450
>>42543506

One thing I've noticed on QTDDTOT and on reddit is that people create threads and posts with an answer in mind. They just want confirmation of what they're already thinking. They don't want an objective answer that might go against what they're thinking.

Just look at this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/6u4s14/doing_phraks_greyskull_ohp_and_bench_are_starting/

He gets some very good replies but it's very clear that he doesn't want to admit that he's doing something wrong and is just looking for reasons to add accessories and change his program. He acts positive towards people who confirms this and negative or in avoidance towards people who's confronting him on his bullshit.

This is a very common trend amongst novice lifters for some reason. Once you start questioning them their story always falls apart, ALWAYS.

>>42543532
I'm not saying Rip is to blame for people fucking it up. Or that everyone needs to be held back from doing more involved stuff.

People who really care will learn right away, people who don't will never learn no matter what. There are however a lot of people who might come to care later on but need that motivation you get from actually stepping in the gym for a some time and starting to see progress.

Ever since I started a job that has me dealing with a lot of people, I started seeing the point on easing down on the "do it or don't you fag, idk" approach.

>>42543576
>and are eating more than the fatty and less than the skelly
i think you meant the other way around.

>>42543576
>you can max out novice level gains in 90 days
Lmao you can continue linear progression for at least twice that amount of time, and if you can you should.

>>42543592
>This is a very common trend amongst novice lifters for some reason.

>this is a very common trend among humans for some reason.
fixed that for 'ya. also kurger-dunning, or something to that effect.

>>42543651

I never said you max out your novice level gains, you reach a plateau on SS (given those conditions) at about 90 days.

>>42543648

Yeah, you're right.

>>42540520
>, he does have good understanding of bio-mechanics

His squat cues are fucking retarded.

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>>42542989
slander and lies

>>42540291
You just got fat asf stop taking lmaoo

>>42536518
He's like seventy you fucking pussy

>>42540291
>no veins
>barely any muscle definition
>use of lighting to exaggerate definition

I'm 15% and from that shot there's no fucking way you're below 20%bf

>>42544135
>you will plateau 2-3 times in 90 days
'no'
Is that happens, you're either not eating enough, not sleeping enough, or making too big of jumps in weight.

>>42544392
>>42544658
Post bodies.

>>42540374

Easy to maintain ya is fantasy land. Bitch past 40 its a battle just to keep what you have.

is it too hard to understand?

SS is a program with a OBJECTIVE goal: getting strong. no matter who you are, how you are, etc, if you follow the program you WILL get strong, OBJECTIVELY.

now every single person has SUBJECTIVE goals, and one person may have more than one goal related to /fit/ness, which for instance, can be to be strong and look good. obviously SS can only satisfy one of those needs, to get strong, so if you want to look good, fucking adapt the goddamn program to your SUBJECTIVE goal, so you can approach both goals at the same time. just add 1 accessory to each muscle group

>>42540091

That's roger estep

>>42537040
In his 60s now

>>42536518
milk products are fucking estrogen bombs. no wonder those idiots develop manboobs and gain bodyfat.

>>42536518
Okay, guy