Thoughts on sword drills as musle gain/cardio workout? Seems

That looks pretty cool but it's kind of stupid now that swords are irrelevant.

>>42371542
sounds like something a neckbeard would do

>>42371542

Let me put on my fedora and straight up say it. Western sword arts outside of fencing are a joke. It's a dead art, an approximation of what sword fighting might have been like. We just don't know.

Kendo is a much better option.

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>>42371787
>it's a dead art
>people try to revive it
>lol neckbeard xD

>>42371542
Full armored combat would do wonders for stamina and strength

>>42371944
Like this stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhF1i23vwps

Must be fucking exhausting

>>42371787
>Western sword arts outside of fencing are a joke

Fencing is also a joke.

t. epeeist

>>42371787
Somebody should have told those renaissance guys to stop being fags and throw in the towel.

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>>42371787
Money's on the longsword over the katana any day.

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>>42371787
> It's a dead art, an approximation of what sword fighting might have been like
except there are countless manuals and treatises.

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>>42371787
He's right. Classical fencing was revived by hobbyists who read a couple sword manuals from the Renaissance. It lack any kind of credibility, this is the first website Google brings back.

I fenced for a couple months and found it to be very exciting. There was an old Italian who grew up in the Bronx that would sit me down and explain to me why I had dogshit form. It's kind of like tennis where skill is prized over altheticism and some old guy can come out of nowhere and kick your ass - particularly in epee but less in sabre. I would definitely suggest it, I'm probably going to get back into it once I get my life back together.

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>>42371787
this is correct. most of what they do is argue back and forth over who interpreted a manual drawing more correctly

this is like taking drawing classes from someone whos never drawn or even seen someone draw in real life

we LITERALLY have no idea what a real sword fight looks like much less have an idea of why or what the drawing are trying to say exactly

although ill add that kendo and all the jap shit is in the same category and you seem to forget that japan intentionally broke its sword fighting traditions

there are so many reasons why its shit i dont even feel like listing them out right now

hell people cant even agree if the flail or mace were real weapons that existed much less how they were used and you think these people know fighting technique?

>>42372366
>we LITERALLY have no idea what a real sword fight looks like
This is a stupid argument. As if modern people are incapable of building on techniques of how to hit and not be hit by a sword. The treatises are just a reference point.

>>42372389
>As if modern people are incapable of building on techniques of how to hit and not be hit by a sword.

yes

you sound like one of those karate masters who showed up to early mma to get btfo by street brawlers. you can talk about the sport of fencing or the reality of sword fights but understand they arent the same thing

there are no problems with making it a sport because you can make whatever stupid or arbitrary rules you want but most "classical fencing" stuff jacks itself off over how realistic or effective it is

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>>42371542
>not grounding himself
>bouncy tournament tappy tappy shit

LIECHTENAUER B T F O

>>42371542
>cringefit

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>>42372366
>hell people cant even agree if the flail or mace

only meant to say flail, dont know why i added mace

>>42371542
m8 i hope anyone who tries to do this for gains gets decapitated by flopping around for not reading the sticky

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>>42371542
>want to fantasize about killing orcs and fantasy niggers with my boromir sword
>cant have a great imaging in my head because have no idea how a sword would really be used
>know this classical fencing stuff is a dumb meme
>tfw i just want to cleanse this land of evil

>>42372065
>get booped on the head and lose
>sorry anon pull your sword out of Steves torso and go to the losers corner, you clearly got your helm scratched first

>>42372725
Research longsword techniques

>>42372725
>want to fantasize about killing orcs and fantasy niggers with my boromir sword
>fantasy niggers
how are those different from regular niggers?

>>42373004
>how are those different from regular niggers?

they are normally green or grey in fantasy

>>42372928
research ur mom techniques lmao

>>42371542
This is fucking stupid

Especially that video, it's a dead art, no one fights with swords anymore. It's all fucking larping, and larping? Larping is for fags.

>>42373240
So, what do you larp in, fag?

>>42373256
Here's your (you)

>>42373331
t-thanks

>>42372725
The euro martial arts being entirely made up is a jewish lie.

Hema or any euro martial art is fine for endurance training.

Gives you something to stay motivated. It's fun and very white.

>>42372079
this is pretty amazing

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>>42373364
im not saying there was never sword fighting in yuroup. im saying the new "classical fencing" shit is made up since sword fighting died and everyone who knew how to sword fight was dead at one point in history

its the same with japan or anywhere else really, im not trying to pick on europe, its just thats what in the video

european blacksmithing is also a dead art but i think jap sword smithing in slightly less dead

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>>42371542
>the old masters all totally knew what they were talking about are should always be taken seriously

*drives to mcdojo to learn the secret ways*

>>42372065
they look like those little buggers in dark souls 3

>>42373240
>it's a dead art, no one fights with swords anymore
Nigger, it's a sport. This is like saying lifting is useless because you don't need to be strong to get by in modern society. Who the fuck cares.

>>42371787
But you can practise it just like kendo. We have all the tecnicues for it to be a good sport. We just don't know if it's historically accurate, which is irrelevant if you just want to have fun, so whats the issue

>>42373547
It's funny that classical fencers will deride sport fencing when the Olympic athletes are the ones who inherited Western martial arts. There's a direct lineage from the masters of old leading up to the coaches of the modern day, the purpose of their craft changed when dueling was phased out of polite society.

>>42373240
Actually, in my country I see at least once a month a video of our niggers (not actually black people but poors) fighting with machetes/spears and shields and what not.

I guess if they actually took some of these classes they wouldnt be the mess they are when swinging a weapon

>>42373710
Classical fencing is full on autism. Some guys go as far as to claim buckled shoes or period clothing needs to be used. It would be like if a guy claimed you should stop weightlifting and only practice javelin tosses and phalanx formations in the yard of polis.

>>42373788
>Brazilians arent real niggers

huehue

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>>42373797
>not training by doing the hoplitodromos
>not practicing pankration

literally never going to make it

>>42371542
tl;dr kendo/sword training/martial arts is shit for hypertrophy, strength, and baseline cardio endurance. Use the sticky for those. If you have baseline endurance and strength, however, martial arts will allow you to build upon your endurance and mental strength, in addition to providing a great source of satisfaction and self-actualization that you can carry throughout your life. Kendo in particular is a sport/art that you only get better at with age. This is because it's focused on having clean, pure form and (at higher ranks) counts only those points that are cleanly won and based off of clear intentionally created opportunities. Here's some great high-level kendo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAq53UIypKA

>>42371787
what dojo/federation were you? I was at UW, pnkf.

>>42373885

Long post part 1:

I did kendo for four years and am waiting for surgery on an osteoarthritic toe before I start back up again. I hope to make it a lifelong passion. I've also had friends and teachers who did fencing and HEMA and this is what I've found/heard:

It is much, much harder to build raw strength or hypertrophy through sword training than through weightlifting (at some point, it's functionally impossible). The reason is the age old "weight must be this heavy to elicit the needed contraction" story, so the sticky continues to be your friend. This is true even if you are eating enough carbs and protein (martial arts in general is very energy demanding).

Another reason it's hard to build athleticism with sword arts is that once you hit your physical barriers, you either are still capable of finishing the training session well, or you have to cheat on form or effort to make it through.

Weight training and regimented cardio (running outdoors with a watch/treadmill/ergometer/bike), on the other hand, are more effective at ensuring accountability. They show you the numbers explicitly as the activity is progressing, and there's very little way to cheat the motion without putting yourself in a compromised position that hurts you. If you aren't able to meet your numbers, you have the luxury of setting up a personalized progression scheme, something that training with a group in a dojo or training hall won't allow you. In addition, because of how you're forced to/have the luxury to maintain good form in a lift or in a run, your body will learn to do compound movements in a really healthy way from the start. (eg learning to deadlift teaches you how to move heavy weight with speed and an safe back)

>>42373893
Part 2:

All this said, if you can establish a baseline of strength and endurance through weightlifting and regimented cardio, you can very easily see significant gains from martial arts in two main areas: speed and fighting form. All striking and swordfighting martial arts are a constant plyometric exercise, so with a baseline of endurance and mental toughness, you can see significant growth in your speed, reflexes, endurance, and mental agility. You really have to focus and apply yourself through the pain, however. Still, heavy weight lifting (6 reps or less/set) will also hypertropphy the type IIb fibres used in these very fast motions.

At the end of the day, martial arts is an inefficient way to build strength or hypertrophy. It can help you build some physical qualities, but the real gain you get is the satisfaction of getting better at something that's competitive. Fighting and learning from others and improving through your own practice is a guaranteed path to self-actualization in your life and all the mental and emotional health that brings.

Unlike weightlifting, you only get better at sword arts with age. You become smarter, have more focused spirit, and your form becomes more efficient. If you ever go to a kendo dojo, the best people are the 80-year old senseis. 10 times out of 10 they destroy 20-year old kids who are at the peak of their raw athleticism. The best sensei I ever had was an overweight 80-year old ex-sub captain who'd been training kendo for almost 50 years. He barely moved until the moment he struck, and then he struck you so cleanly you didn't even realize he'd made an opening in your defence.

Finally, kendo is a great way to find community. If you're in a diverse area, it's very possible to find your dream athletic asian qt3.14 if that's what you're into. I'm sure that similar things are true of other martial arts, those communities have very tight personal bonds because of their shared focus, passion, and humility.

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>>42372065
>>42372079
>>42371810
>>42371787
>>42371598
>>42372174
>>42372366
>>42373547

>comparing the utility of various sword arts
>meanwhile, guns

The point of these isn't to learn self-defence. It's to have a meaningful experience getting better at something you enjoy with a community of like-minded individuals. If you want self-defence, do krav maga, gun training, and get a license to carry (or just buy taser/pepperspray).

>>42372725
>>42373004
>>42373030

Go back to your containment board

>>42372079
>>42372065

that's a really cool webm

got a sauce?

>>42373801
>implying im brazilian
close though

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>>42373893
>>42373963
I have a stupid question for some fantasy building. I'm aware that swords aren't meant to be heavy, and heavier weights are only intended for weapons that are meant to smash plate and such, but what would happen if someone trains with a zweihander that's much more heavy than usual (around 100 lbs or something)?
How would his body develop? Does his training become crossfit or something like that?

>>42371542
i do this along with training. the movement and cardio part of it really helps with the development of your general hand eye coordination and ability to move on your feet. also the basic function of swinging a stick object or swinging a fist is just as important if that's what you are doing ofc.

>>42372065
so fast without armor

>>42374009
HEMA isn't even a sport or a skill, it's just a bunch of faggots with YouTube channels:

HEMA - https://youtu.be/b8txyYkaaF8
Sport Fencing - https://youtu.be/nGearEu2PlU

>>42374075
your range of motion and general movement will be limited during use. also your body has to work harder in different areas in order to compensate for the heavy lift/swing. doing something super exaggerated such as swinging a pipe like object that's 30lbs can be beneficial. but this is more of a realistic weight. you can look up things like kettle bells or exercise maces and equipment like that. use of these things along with some sort of calisthenics type shit can help your sword fighting game out. but really what's most important, similar with like boxing, is getting the technique down. and gaining your strength/ability through that, THEN going for specific things such as weight lifting. know what i mean? this way you know how to adjust to what you already know.

also might i add, my personal preferences have changed since i started sparring with weapons. it's one thing to speculate but once you have used various kinds and experiment around, your preference will change, more or less. kind of like how every bicycle is different, but they all get you from point a to b.

>>42373893
>>42373963

Giving you kudos for these posts because this shit was a good read.

>>42374075

One problem I've found with many sword arts that use heavy practice swords is risk to rotator cuff and back. I recommend spending time developing your baseline strength before you try doing heavy sword training.
My choice was SL5x5 with accessories of decline weighted crunches, knee raises, side planks, supermans, facepulls and internal/external cable rotations.

anon makes good points here >>42374190, and his strategy of get form down then do supplemental weight training is a very viable approach if you already have a good baseline of strength and injury resilience.

For me, I've realized that fixing weight loss, aesthetics, and injury/weak back are more urgent prerogatives *for me*. Hence, I've chosen to focus on compound lifting (currently texas method with abdominal accessories) and c25k (eventually 5k to 10k) until I get my toe joint surgery, and then I'll start integrating kendo in again.

It's worth noting that training weights with maximal focus and training martial arts with maximal focus at the same time is VERY challenging, if not impossible. You will always have to compromise on intensity and quality the more you try to complicate your week's training schedule, and training will become very time-consuming.

You can make it work, just make sure it makes sense for your situation and priorities.

>>42374075
>>42375982

also realizing i'm super tired and not properly answering your question. Yes, you would most certainly develop muscle. Using a 100lb zweihander is no joke, however. 100lb for as many reps as are used in a standard HEMA practice session seems highly impractical unless you're well trained.

The whole thing seems like a lot of unnecessary strain on the shoulder joints. Especially moving such a heavy thing so fast. Anyone care to confirm or deny this?

>>42374151
>man, look at this thing that people do for fun, exercise, recreation, sport, and intellectual curiosity
>man, all these people are faggots

mhm ok bud

>isn't even a sport or a skill

it's physically demanding, has a ruleset and significant international practice/viewership, and requires years of training. That's a lot of the common criteria of a sport or skill in my book.

>>42376085
The swords are like 4lbs and used with two hands.

>>42374151
Personally, I like watching kendo as it strikes a good balance between the speed of fencing and solidity/striking form of HEMA.

I would say "to each his own", but I guess you could just call people faggots for disagreeing with you :)

>>42376085
can't speak to fencing or hema swords but shinai are 440g (1.1 lbs) distributed over a 1.1 metre (36 inch) length, centre of mass being at the top of the bottom third of the sword (the third near the hilt). Very lightweight.

rotator cuff injuries can be a problem if you have poor form and flare your elbows out too much (much like with ohp). for more info on the ohp comparison, rippetoe has a good explanation: https://youtu.be/CnBmiBqp-AI?t=6m25s

doing ohp, Pendlay Rows, Bench, facepulls, and cable rotations helps a lot as preventative/strengthening care.

>>42375999
So it's indeed possible to become an IRL Guts albeit impractical?

>>42376225
it will have a definite impact over time, just slowly. it wont make you guts tho, because it is too asymmetrical in its training emphasis.

>>42372725
wow. Those are cool lotr replicas.
>gimli, aragorn, theodin

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>>42374009
>. If you want self-defence, do krav maga
HAHAHAHA

Yeah let's do the franchising marketing Dane Cook equivalent of martial art. You fucking goy.

Anon confirmed for not having a clue.

>>42375999
Zweihanders were usually something like 5-6 pounds unless they were ceremonial. What is a 100lb zweihander?