Anti depressants and lifting

>>42365301
I started an SSRI in the middle of my /fit/ journey and didn't notice a difference except that in the first weeks taking it I was really hungry constantly, I gained 3 or 4 pounds but got it back off fairly easily

>>42365301
also on an SSRI, no effect on gains

>>42365333
>>42365365
Cool, thanks guys.

Hope the pills are working for you guys.

Lord I hope they work for me.

>>42365301
Also in SSRI. The immensely reduced anxiety helps me with gains. All the adrenaline just has to be bad for your gains. For me Paxil has been a lifesaver. It helped me turn my life around in the course of six months. Getting off will be horrible but that's a problem for the futureanon

>>42365301


Dont go on ssris.

They increase the chance of suicide, violence and homicide. They work a statisically negligible amount better than placebos, and over the long term patuents receiving no treatment recovered better with fewer relapses than people on the drugs.

They all literally cause brain damage, and prolonged use damages the sertonin recpeptors of the brain, creating a condition called tardive dysphoria, which is like permanent depression. Which is ironic cause the drugs are literally causing the exact thing they are tryingnto cure, which is a serotonin imbalance.

The "depression" is more like a lack of emotion. People on these drugs admit to nomlonger feeling enthused by things they used to love. They cant feel happy, or sad. They just feel "flat". They dont cry at funerals of loved ones. They domt even feel love for the people they care about. Many divorces happen shoryky after startomg these drugs, because they screw with dopamine, and people no longer can fall in love, or feel love at all.

On top of that, they cause sexual side effects called PSSD. A substantial amount of men takìng these drugs experience it, and permanantely lose the ability to sport an erection.

>>42365301
I'm on lexapro for close to two years. Side effects were shitty at first but worth it now. That said I wasn't really working out prior but I ate decent to be around 190 at 6 foot 1. Lexapro made me gain weight, got up to 212. I had a craving to eat like complete shit like fast food and ice cream but I got over those cravings and back down to 194.

What is an "actual clown"? If I dress up like a clown, that should be good enough

>>42365461
Also theyre terribly addictive and incredinly hard to get off of.

The pronlem with certain symptoms that i described above is that the drugs create a kind of "okay" attitude. People who are experiencing these things dont even care that they are, or they cant detect that they cant feel things anymore.

>>42365461
Not every drug effects everyone the same way. And how do you know they work just as good as placebos? Wouldn't increasing seratonin levels in the body also increase receptors to them which ultimately makes your body more sensitive to their effects?

>>42365301
>>42365401
>don't have a terrible life.
>Lord I hope they work for me.
uhhhh...I'll just say I have been there

Whatever you do don't stop lifting. The crash combined with no exercise has killed people. Remember that next time you feel like skipping a workout. Heads up on the CBT; you won't notice it doing anything until you start thinking back.

>>42365461
maybe you should understand what mania and pre-existing conditions mean. Go now, I'll be here, but not waiting for you.

>>42365461
>>42365494
desu, given that I get chest pains from anxiety and I've had to change my career path to avoid stress due to panic attacks - Sounds like a good idea.


Presumably a lot of people who are on these drugs shouldn't be on them, but I've been dealing with this shit for nearly 10 years and I'm on the edge of a breakdown.

Thanks for your opinion though.

>>42365461
>Just be yourself bro!

>>42365494
And then theres akithesia, another common side effect.

Its what usually leads to suicide or homicide. Its like you feel like youre going in fast foward, and you cant stand to be in your own skin.

These drugs are absolutely terrible.

And im not kidding about the brain damage. They cause mild cognitive disfunction in the frontal lobe and there is a huge correlation between dementia patients and ssri use.

>>42365461
>>42365543
Why are you only talking about side effects? Its like talking about alcohol and only telling people about the side effects and how it will cause the same thing to happen to everyone. Or talking about the side effects of ibuprofen and telling everyone how the side effects are the only things that happen.

>>42365461
Not that I dont believe you but, Source?

Almost all antidepressants have bad long term effects. I have always thought of them as a temporal fix rather than a permanent one.

>>42365561
Most drugs have bad long term effects. But some people need them to supply what the body can't produce anymore. Thats why there are studies done on therapeutic equivalents and therapeutic windows. But for some reason this one anon has a huge boner for only the down sides of every drug.

>>42365561
I'm the first reply in this thread and can confirm that "flat" feeling and occasional sexual issues, but you're right that it's a temporary fix. For me it just "backed me off the cliff" so to speak because I was so bad that I couldn't even get out of bed to go to therapy, and now I'm gearing up to come off them.

>>42365520
Because i read the studies, and the companies jnow they dont work.

Theres no such thing as a chemical imbalance.

And no, increasing the available amount of serotonin does not increase receptors. It decreases them because your brain is responding to there being too much.

The opposite happens in antipsychotics with the dopamanergic pathways. They increase the receptors.

Think about this. 20% more women have depression tham men. That should mean, according to how these drugs work, that women have more often have lower serotonin levels than men. They dont.

One anti psychotic causes serotonin to deplete, which should mean people on the drug shiuld get depressed, right?

They dont.

They dont cure a chemical imblance, they create one.

File: 1496355706519.jpg (43KB, 720x960px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 720x960px

>>42365461
>don't follow advice of your doctor
>trust me, i know more than he does

File: 1485135974885.jpg (128KB, 331x800px) Image search: [Google]

128KB, 331x800px

>been on and off SSRI's like prozac and lexipro for a decade, first starting as a young teen
>finally decided the now-or-never time a year in advance and tapered off until my birthday
>it's been 4 months now being completely off of them and I'm hanging on by a thread everyday, even with rigorous exercise and hygiene
>it's been a constant and nightmarish rollercoaster but no physical withdrawals at least

Does it get better or am I going to have to return to taking (((the pills))) for the rest of my miserable life. God dammit I should've never taken them to begin with. I was conned and deceived and at such a young age, too. It just pissing me the fuck off merely thinking about it.

>>42365617
Doctors recommended ciggarettes.

Since prozac was invented in 1987, the US spent 800 million dollars on pharmaceuticals. Now we spend 40 billion.

And 3hat has happened since they invemted the "drug that cures depression"?

The number pf people in every developed nation that has tried these drugs on mental disability, like its a chronic illness, has gone up 4 pr 5 times.

How is that possible if the drugs cure depression? If its "like a diabetic taking insulin."

By the way, the majority of those people on disability? Being treated for chronic depression or bipolar disorder.

Two thjngs these drugs cause.

>>42365561

They are meant to be a temporary fix. You're at the bottom of a well struggling to survive, so you get a raft thrown down to you. You're still at the bottom but you can breathe and rest down there now instead of thinking of killing yourself. When you're able to do that, you should be starting to find ways of getting out of the well.


A large amount of people don't though. They just keep taking them. Because for most people they'd rather keep taking the medicine than confront their issues. I know a few people personally that ended up like this and are still the same crappy people.


There are a few exceptions to this but those are just that, exceptions, and you shouldn't consider yourself an exception unless you have exhausted every medium for improvement available

>>42365613
Can you provide source to those studies? Also, what do you mean there is no such thing as chemical imbalance? Do you mean to tell me hypo/hyperthyroidism is fake? That goiter doesn't happen because lack of iodine is not true? And doesn't the individual cells respond to increased seratonin levels, not the brain directly? If your cells builds up a tolerance, wouldn't they want to increase sensitivity to them by increasing receptors? Then whats the reason to women being more depressed? And again, you just said chemical imbalance doesn't exist but then go back to saying they do exist and how drugs create them despite there being studies on blood samples to characterize them and look specifically for some substance. I'm not trying to be a dick. Just trying to get things straight. With the things you said, you will have to support yourself with evidence.

>>42365613

>Theres no such thing as a chemical imbalance.


How retarded can you be lmao. You're on /fit/ so obviously you must know about test LEVELS, right? How some guys can have horridly low test LEVELS, that need to be supplemented to get into the healthy range? How fucking ignorant do you have to be to recognize that but deny the same can be true for other chemicals produced by the body like serotonin or dopamine?

File: 1500347647061.jpg (20KB, 526x423px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 526x423px

>>42365667
>im telling you, i know more than doctors
>they tell people to smoke so that you get lung cancer and get you back to the hospital
>its all a conspiracy

this isn't /x/

>>42365613
>no such thing as chemical imbalance
>drugs cause chemical imbalance

wat?

>>42365581
I think >>42365461 is afraid pills are being overprescribed. But if OP is healthy and /fit/ with a job and a /gf/ then i'd say pills are an option.
>has a huge boner for only the down sides of every drug.
>permanantely lose the ability to sport an erection.
Kek

>>42365609

I hope you make it.

>>42365667
OP here.

I'm not in the united states.

I'm in the UK, and the NHS aren't as super keen on giving out anti-depressants as in the US

>>42365739

>this drug can cause a chemical imbalance
>oh but there's no way a person could already have a chemical imbalance
>and theres no way a drug could alleviate that imbalance

kek

>>42365667
>doctors recommended ciggarettes

why the fuck are you using medical science of the past to prove yourself right? you realize that there have been advances in medical science right?

>>42365775

That is beside his point. In the future, SSRI's will become the new cigarettes.

>>42365759
>stating the exact same thing in different words
wat?

>>42365790
>FDA will allow SSRI's to be sold OTC
>DEA will allow SSRI's to be sold to people of all ages

yea okay buddy.

>>42365790
Except they're not prescribed indiscriminately in countries that don't have a medical-industrial complex.

>>42365461
Idk I feel like they're really helping for me, I'm on Lexapro
Before I got on it I literally couldn't get out of bed, had no urge to shower or shave or go to classes, no matter what I was doing I was constantly thinking of killing myself or at least how much I hated myself
Now I don't think about killing myself and I actually have energy to live my life and better myself. Sadly I already failed out of college before I got on them.

>>42365817

>missing the entire point AGAIN

autistics really ought to be euthanized.

>>42365790
what are you talking about. I was trying to say how this anon seems to think he knows more than a doctor but then tries to dismiss them by using something they used to do to prove himself right.

>>42365835
>im right, i can never be wrong
>i don't need to better convey my message, everyone is just retarded

I can't tell if you are samefagging but it really seems like it. And if you are, you are retarded for using it to try to prove yourself right.

>>42365561
>>42365694
>>42365719

http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyg.2011.00159/full

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21459521


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2564489/#!po=88.0952

Ill find more, i used to have them saved.

Youre conflating what im saying with other condition not involving the brain. Chemical imbalance refers specially to psychiatric medications.

Depression is not a chemical imbalance. The whole idea of a chemical imbalance was used as the metaphor to sell these drugs. Its correcting "an imbalance".

No one knows why depression happens. To say that its because of serotonin levels is absurd.

They essentially saw what the drugs did, and assumed the opposite of that was the mechanism causing depression. That like saying the opposite of what ibuprofen does causes headaches and inflamation. Its crazy.

And yes, im saying that when 40 billion dollsrs is on the line, and these are among the most prescribed drugs in the world, yeah maybe people are lyjng for money. God, what a concept.

Almoat 20% of the population is on these things and they dont fucking work.

>>42365667
>correlation does imply causation

>>42365461
>People on these drugs admit to nomlonger feeling enthused by things they used to love. They cant feel happy, or sad. They just feel "flat".

What if you already feel like this when you've never been on antidepressants?

>>42365860

I don't mean SSRI's will LITERALLY replace cigarettes. I meant that how cigarettes were presented as something healthy and later on were "discovered" (they already knew) to be very unhealthy but the masses were hooked on them by now so it didn't matter if it became common knowledge. They say SSRI's are safe but later on it will be "discovered" again that they are not and they will have some other product to shill for or their patients will be addicted to them for that constant stream of revenue.

>>42365896
>I don't mean SSRI's will literally replace cigs
Thats not what I was saying either. I read your statement as how SSRI's will be as available and easily attainable as cigs....

>>42365869
>and they dont fucking work.

they literally do tho so idk why you keep purporting that


you sound like you have good intentions in that you are (rightfully) fearful of SSRI's being over-prescribed, poor management of use, and are pushed more heavily due to their monetary value for big pharma.


but you're also dumb as fuck and have no clue what you're talking about

>>42365885


Im saying it paints a picture. Shouldnt we see less psychiatric illnesses since the advent pf these drugs?

Do the medical companies not have something to protect if they dont work?

The funny things is, the more they advertise that they do work, the stronger the placebo effect of these drugs.

But that doesnt change the fact people are killong themselves at 700% the rate they would if they werent on them.

>>42365758
Bullshit

It was like pulling teeth trying to get CBT
Getting SSRI's was easy, literally told the Doc symptoms and was prescribed

>>42365946

I first got on prozac at 14 with no history of suicidal tendencies or self-harm (which is for fags anyway). I have to be 18 to buy cigarettes.

I was just a 14-year-old that was very sheltered and bored out of my fucking skull.

>>42365896
So are you suggesting that SSRI's not even be an option? Of course things will change in the future. Science is like that. New studies gives more efficient ways to treat some problem and get rid of old methods. Just like how you are using that cig example. But again, you can't just get rid of an option that gives a solution for a small time. Itd be better to just tell patients about what happens if used for extensive periods of time so that patients know that this is a temporary fix.

>>42365983

at the very least they should've been given out like butterscotch but Dr. Shekelstein Dr. Schlomowitz need their money so that'll never ever happen.

>>42365966

Okay, let me break it dpwn for

If they work in the short term, but increase the vulnerability of a patient to mental illness in the long term AND cause chronic depressive symptoms, then i say yeah, they dknt fuckimg work.

Not to mention again, in the short term they work a statistically negiligible amount better than placebos.

>>42365301
Before hopping on those, look at this:
>https://examine.com/supplements/hypericum-perforatum/

St. John's Wort is just as effective, natural, and safer. Also look more into cognitive-behavioral therapy. There is so much research out there showing that changing your habits, beliefs, lifestyle, and way of thinking leads to much better results. This is why psychoanalysis has taken the backseat to cognitive-behavioral therapy.

Trust me mate, I've been down your road. You don't want to go on those meds.

In sum:
>take St. John's Wort
>change what you think, believe, and how you live à la cognitive-behavioral therapy

>>42365980
And I was 9 when i first smoked my first cig, I have to be 18 to buy them. And I was 13 when I first drank alcohol, I have to be 21 to buy them.

But you should have gotten a 2nd opinion. And if you did with extensive studies, sorry you have a bad experience with doctors. But things have changed.

>>42366010

*shouldn't

File: 1436764454973.jpg (8KB, 250x238px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 250x238px

>>42366010
what?

>>42366024

Did a licensed professional give you that cigarette or that booze?

>>42365739
You are fucking retarded.

>>42365971

>Shouldnt we see less psychiatric illnesses since the advent pf these drugs?


Or maybe there's higher rate of diagnosis because of the (EXTREMELY) lowered stigma surrounding mental illness nowadays? Because of the massive improvements in assessing and determining mental illnesses (which modernly has only been around since the 50s-60s)? Jesus dude, we are *literally* at the infancy stage of treating mental illnesses, and basically at the embryo stage of treating them with medication. Of course there are going to be fuckups and risks involved, and of course big pharma has rea$on$, but to vehemently go against medication for stuff like depression is downright stupid

>>42366025
oh... Okay. Im this guy>>42366042
But you still seem to have some kind of grudge against medical science. You can't expect the right treatments to pop up first try man.
But I do agree that these doctors should inform their patients of side effects if used for too long.

>>42366011
>If they work in the short term, but increase the vulnerability of a patient to mental illness in the long term AND cause chronic depressive symptoms, then i say yeah, they dknt fuckimg work.


You keep saying this shit like it's the normal response and not the outlier response. It's like reading the back of a Tylenol box and claiming everyones eyes are bleeding out because they take Tylenol, just because there's a warning of that potential

>>42366048
You are missing the point man. Im saying how easy it is to obtain anything that is extremely harmful to you. You can't take your angers out on everyone. Nothing is perfect here.

>>42366051
wooooooosh

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26376805

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19512977

http://diginole.lib.fsu.edu/islandora/object/fsu%3A267045

File: 1497637787034.jpg (305KB, 1536x1183px) Image search: [Google]

305KB, 1536x1183px

>>42365535
>>42365535
Same here.
I've have anxiety from severe illness in my early childhood, reinforced by an abusive parent. I always thought getting chest pain that would even reach out along my left arm during stressful events was normal. Just getting started on the SSNRI meds made that so much better, I don't know how I pulled through this for more than 20 years.

File: B&J.png (2MB, 1044x818px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1044x818px

>I want to believe my problems will be fixed by drugs, the thread.

http://www.baytallaah.com/bookspdf/51.pdf

Just fucking read this.

Someone linked it yesterday and it's already cured me.

>one in five burgers is on anti-depressants
>we're supposed to believe that ONE. FIFTH. of a nation is depressed to the extent that they need daily drugs despite living in the most comfortable period in human history
>those who take the drugs invariably think that it's other people who don't really need them but they themselves do

You all know that that can't be true, right?

Chances are you're one of the people that don't need it

>abloo bloo muh anxiety

Grow up ffs, maybe stop eating sugar every 15 minutes and see if that works, these drugs should be the absolute, bottom of the barrel last resort

>>42366105
>no one should rely on medical science, the post.

>>42366136
>20% of the United States have a chemical imbalance that they cannot deal with without daily drugs despite no other country having similar issues, the post

>>42366158
>science is a liar sometimes so never trust them

Are we seriously going to go back and forth on why we shouldn't do further studies to improve on current situations?

File: 1500665634163.jpg (222KB, 500x700px) Image search: [Google]

222KB, 500x700px

>>42365301
Hey, OP.

I've been on something called "Wellbutrin XL", for the last 2 years.
I was a loser who smoked too much weed, didn't care about his gf, and didn't have plans for the future apart from my next paycheck.
Just finished my 2nd year of uni (at 26), I have a new gf (who I think loves me), and I care about every last person in my life.
Sometimes the right drugs can help.
Wellbutrin is NOT an SSRI, it is an NDRI. Thus, there is NO weight gain, and NO loss of libido.
We'll all make it, anon.
Deus Vult

>>42366136
>salty drug consumer, the post.

Advertisements did not accurately reflect the scientific status of the serotonin theory in the psychiatric research community. Some advertisements were more tentative or clever in their wording than others, but it seemed obvious that the drug companies were at least pushing the boundaries. We thought several of them were going over the line in plain sight of the FDA, which ostensibly regulates direct to consumer advertising. Our goal was to illustrate the clear disconnect between the existing psychiatric science and what the public was being told in these advertisements and we argued that the FDA should issue warning letters to pharmaceutical companies. Of course there were ramifications for clinicians – if it was illegal to claim this in advertisements, wasn't it also an unacceptable thing to be telling vulnerable clients? "

The Problematic Advertisements Disappear
"Newer medications were promoted as "adjusting" or "affecting" neurotransmitter levels, in contrast to "correcting a chemical imbalance"...(...) .. And drugs are now advertised as "affecting" neurotransmitters.
There is no public explanation for why this happened. To our knowledge, the FDA has never sent a warning letter to a pharmaceutical company over claims that antidepressants corrects a chemical imbalance. In our assessment, the promotion of chemical imbalances theory in advertise mince for SSRI drugs was wildly successful for the drug companies in the psychiatric profession alike. Wallace difficult to imagine that they pulled them arbitrarily, we don't know why they largely disappeared."

The authors suggest it may be due to the widespread public criticism of it and emerging transparency of information on the Internet obviously creating problems, or at least a dilemma.

>>42366170
don't take drugs. Havn't been to the hospital since I was a child. But you need to realize there are risks involved when we are at the beginning of studies

I Don't Really Believe It, But I Say It to Patients Anyway
Psychiatrist Daniel Carlat is a practising psychiatrist, a clinical instructor at Tufts University ..(..)...

"I think I say that because patients want to know something. And they want to know that we as physicians have some basic understanding of what we're doing when we are prescribing medications. They certainly don't want to know that a psychiatrist essentially has no idea how these medications work."

...(..)...The consistent lack of difference between SSRI and placebo in the clinical literature is one of the most compelling arguments against the serotonin deficiency theory...(...)... one thing that has happened is that because there's been such a vacuum in our knowledge about mechanism, the drug companies have been happy to sort of fill that vacuum with their own version of knowledge...(..)... in fact scientists have known for a long time that the serotonin theory presented by the drug companies and Carlat is not true.....(...)... the simple alternative would be to tell patients the truth – that the pathophysiology of depression is unknown and that we have no idea how SSRIs work.

The Positive Aspects of Misinformed Thinking
There were many angry comments... Apparently many psychiatric patients never realised they were hearing a metaphor and not science....(...)... some such patients now understandably feel lied to by the clinicians. The claim that presenting the chemical imbalance metaphor is in the best interests of patients needs to be considered in light of the existing empirical research. This in fact is not what the literature shows.

File: Pierre-Auguste_Renoir,_Le_Moulin_de_la_Galette.jpg (4MB, 2200x1639px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 2200x1639px

>>42365638
>Does it get better or am I going to have to return to taking (((the pills))) for the rest of my miserable life.

Maybe it does.
For a number of people depression can't be fixed.

>>42366166
I don't need research to tell me that 20% of the US being on this garbage when this happens nowhere else in the world and everywhere else in the world isn't throwing themselves off of cliffs like lemmings makes zero sense

It Wasn't Us It Was the Drug Companies
Ronald Pies is a psychiatrist at Tufts University..


Pies doesn't believe that the chemical imbalance metaphor should be attributed to psychiatry...

" In truth the chemical imbalance notion was always a kind of urban legend – never a theory seriously propounded by well-informed psychiatrists".

...(...)..[Yet]... Among 237 psychology students Francis, Lysaker and Robinson found that 46% had heard the chemical imbalance explanation from a physician ..... Many people reported hearing it's a 'chemical imbalance' from psychiatrists.... If Pies is correct, that is an awful lot of uninformed clinicians.

A Bumper Sticker Slogan to Educate Patients
In subsequent articles Pies moderates his tone...... he claims that it is the result of overbooked clinicians looking for quick explanations to accompany medication, perhaps to reduce self blame on the part of patients(he acknowledges this may backfire). ....(...)... academic psychiatry in general has done a highly effective job of convincing PCPs to diagnose and treat depression with antidepressants.

Academic Psychiatry As Silent Partner in the Promotion of Chemical Imbalance
...Prominent academic psychiatrists could have set the record straight on serotonin imbalance decades ago. Yet to our knowledge no one did so....(...)... is it possible that the flow of money from the pharmaceutical companies to influential academic psychiatrists… has brought with it a certain willingness to remain silent?

[Pies] sounds vaguely critical of the drug industry in his recent articles and never discloses any history of financial conflicts of interest. However Pies has received funding from....[lists many pharma companies]. Pies blames the drug companies for running misleading advertisements about chemical imbalance, belatedly admits he should have said something sooner, but fails to mention that he was paid to help them promote their products at the time the advertisements were running.

Am I seriously supposed to believe that the US is more depressed now than continental Europe was during the second world war?

Is is POSSIBLE that this shit is over-prescribed?

>>42366191
Not every country is the same. Does you country have an obesity problem like ours or is it the same? The fact that you are trying to prevent scientific studies while also using statistical analysis at the same time shows me how biased you are.

But We Never Promoted the Theory

In Table 1 and Table 2 it is apparent that there are often two different conversations occurring. One is the actual scientific discourse. The other conversation is between influential psychiatrists and the public, or between psychiatrists and primary care physicians. In this second conversation the company advertising line about SSRIs correcting chemical imbalances is repeated as fact by psychiatric authorities including the APA.

[i recommend having a read of:
Table 1- Evidence the chemical imbalanced theory of depression is not valid: selected quotations and,
Table 2-Promotion of the chemical imbalance theory of depression as valid: selected quotations].

The Chemical Imbalance Theory Is a Little White Lie
.. By 2014 Pies refers to the use of the chemical imbalance metaphor as "a little white lie"....(...)... how many patients with reservations about SSRIs have agreed to take medication after being told this "little white lie"?

>>42366206
The fact that the US has a high prevalence of obesity suggests that individuals in the US need a lifestyle change, not that everyone needs gastric bypass surgery.

And yes, my country does have an obesity problem

>>42366224
So how do you know your country isn't facing the same problems without the use of same studies? Is our country the first one to try to go through this wall or is everyone just ignoring it? Once again I have to state, there will always be risks at the beginning of studying something that is serious. Give it more time to improve. It can't be perfect right from the start.

>>42365301
>taking antidepressants
>ever
If you need to take pills to keep your mind off suicide, you're already past the point of no return. Deal with your depression like a man or kill yourself. There should be no place in this world for the weak.

The propagation of misleading advertising is only possible in the absence of vigorous government regulation. Or outcry from professional associations. That outcry never came

while we are hesitant to overemphasise conflicts of interest as an explanation for what has occurred, we can't help but notice that the silence of psychiatry regarding chemical imbalance only ended when the profits had been extracted from the SSRI marketplace.

The new narrative will apparently be that psychiatrists recently discovered that the chemical imbalance theory was incorrect. Psychometric researchers are changing their mind based on the data, so the story goes and adjusts took a while to let the public know. This is empirically wrong. The idea that the withdrawal of the chemical imbalance theory was caused by recent data should be rejected.

As the theory has been withdrawn and a dialogue has taken place many mental health clients have reacted negatively to the news that there was never any reason to believe that depression was caused by a serotonin imbalance.

Many mental health clients find it unacceptable, and perhaps a violation of ethical informed consent, for clinicians to give patients metaphorical explanations for their mental health problems and promote them as scientific truth.

Patients who start an SSRI because they have been told it will correct the chemical imbalance, that it is like thyroid medication for hyperthyroidism are likely to eventually conclude that they have simply not been told the truth.

Previously we argued that misleading consumer advertisements for SSRIs should end.

A decade later the serotonin theory of depression is acknowledged to be dead and most SSRI advertising campaigns are now part of history we encourage our colleagues in organised psychiatry to work towards this end by improving medical education and ongoing training, by endorsing shared decision-making, and by ensuring that informed consent is based on the scientific literature.

>>42366243
Survival of the fittest at its finest. lol. I guess scientists are trying to prevent this natural progression

>>42366241
>So how do you know your country isn't facing the same problems without the use of same studies?

Because we're not all killing ourselves?

Where'd you get the idea that I'm opposed to further study? I'm just sceptical of drug research because of vested interests, time problems and the unwillingness of pharmacists to consider non-drug alternatives.

Has there been a single study into the effect of losing weight or cutting out sugar on an individuals' "depression"?

>>42366271
Pharmacists can't prescribe patients. Doctors do. Another bias on your part. You can be the first to study effects of sugar and emotional distress since you seem to think this is the cure. Also, how do you know you don't have suicidal people in your country. Im pretty sure everyone in their life has been "depressed" and thought about just ending it but not actually doing it.

>>42366081

I'm not that guy. It's important to note that these drugs are incredibly addictive and have the potential to kill you if you don't go off them properly. If I was a close friend of OP I'd suggest he finds a new doctor or finds a new goal to attain. It's been proven that trying to learn new things and struggling and overcoming obstacles has helped people who have depression and anxiety. OP should try to learn to play guitar or join a martial arts gym and learn jiu jitsu, or he should start learning a new language. Find something to struggle with to challenge your mind. I know depression is way more complex than 'oh people are just bored' but I think if you find that new hobbies and goals can help, then you can use those instead of SSRIs

There are people who absolutely have chemical imbalances in their brains which cause depression, but we understand so little of brain chemistry that we really need to use these things as a last resort. When I said earlier that they can kill you I didnt mean due to the depression crash. I mean they become so important that your body can actually shut down without them.. Im talking seizures, coma, aneurysms etc. Its fucking terrifying what these things can do to you.

>>42366299
>Pharmacists can't prescribe patients. Doctors do. Another bias on your part.

Uh, pharmacy is the study of drugs you dumb fuck, I'm talking about pharmaceutical researchers, not the lady behind the counter at wallgreens.

You have to be over 18 to post here.

India has the best rste of treatment so far as these drugs are concerned. And why? Because they take people off of them after a short while.

People still do better over all without any drugs in the the long term. Theyre less likely to have depression again, theyre more likely to be in the work force. More likely to get married and have a fsmiky.

People in the west are given these drugs and expected to be on them for life.

Afyer all, you have a chemical imbalance, dont you know?

>>42366135

I think diet has a huge factor in depression. I really wonder how much of the population could be 'cured' from their issues if they had started waking up early in the morning and changed their diet. Shits fucking crazy. We stuff our body full of synthetic sugar and carbs and then our body gets sad because its missing essential nutrients and vitamins. I'd love to see a study of clinically depressed people that began a supervised paleo diet supplemented with some complex carbohydrates when necessary. I'd wager only 1-3% of the population has true chemical imbalances.

>>42366314
Oh sorry, misinterpretation on my part. But again, you can't think the beginning of studies is going to be perfect. Thats like thinking we can develop cure for cancer just within 20 years.

>>42366299
>Also, how do you know you don't have suicidal people in your country

>end result of suicidal people=suicide
>suicide rates therefore decent metric of "suicidal people" for comparative studies
>suicide rate in the US is higher than other industrialised countries
>QED

>>42366328
So this means that not every country is the same. The other anon was trying to say he couldn't believe how another country could have different statistics than theirs. This gives us more reasons to study why people do it and how to treat it.

>>42366314

In all fairness your post did say that pharma would look for non drug alternatives, which doesnt make sense because pharma's job is to produce drugs.

if you doctor puts of on antidepressants its just him saying

"take this pills that work 5% of the time or less, and fuck off I have real patients to treat"

Abstract OBJECTIVES:
To reanalyse SmithKline Beecham's Study 329 (published by Keller and colleagues in 2001), the primary objective of which was to compare the efficacy and safety of paroxetine and imipramine with placebo in the treatment of adolescents with unipolar major depression. The reanalysis under the restoring invisible and abandoned trials (RIAT) initiative was done to see whether access to and reanalysis of a full dataset from a randomised controlled trial would have clinically relevant implications for evidence based medicine.
DESIGN:
Double blind randomised placebo controlled trial.
SETTING:
12 North American academic psychiatry centres, from 20 April 1994 to 15 February 1998.
PARTICIPANTS:
275 adolescents with major depression of at least eight weeks in duration. Exclusion criteria included a range of comorbid psychiatric and medical disorders and suicidality.
INTERVENTIONS:
Participants were randomised to eight weeks double blind treatment with paroxetine (20-40 mg), imipramine (200-300 mg), or placebo.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
The prespecified primary efficacy variables were change from baseline to the end of the eight week acute treatment phase in total Hamilton depression scale (HAM-D) score and the proportion of responders (HAM-D score ≤8 or ≥50% reduction in baseline HAM-D) at acute endpoint. Prespecified secondary outcomes were changes from baseline to endpoint in depression items in K-SADS-L, clinical global impression, autonomous functioning checklist, self-perception profile, and sickness impact scale; predictors of response; and number of patients who relapse during the maintenance phase. Adverse experiences were to be compared primarily by using descriptive statistics. No coding dictionary was prespecified.

>>42366350
Yeah, thats why I was a bit confused on what he was saying. But he cleared himself up while also calling me a dumb fuck

>>42366369

RESULTS:
The efficacy of paroxetine and imipramine was not statistically or clinically significantly different from placebo for any prespecified primary or secondary efficacy outcome. HAM-D scores decreased by 10.7 (least squares mean) (95% confidence interval 9.1 to 12.3), 9.0 (7.4 to 10.5), and 9.1 (7.5 to 10.7) points, respectively, for the paroxetine, imipramine and placebo groups (P=0.20). There were clinically significant increases in harms, including suicidal ideation and behaviour and other serious adverse events in the paroxetine group and cardiovascular problems in the imipramine group.
CONCLUSIONS:
Neither paroxetine nor high dose imipramine showed efficacy for major depression in adolescents, and there was an increase in harms with both drugs. Access to primary data from trials has important implications for both clinical practice and research, including that published conclusions about efficacy and safety should not be read as authoritative. The reanalysis of Study 329 illustrates the necessity of making primary trial data and protocols available to increase the rigour of the evidence base.

>>42365301
You know if there really is no alternative and a good diet didn't help reduce your depression, take them

It might just be the one thing to fix it and then you can go on with your life

BACKGROUND:

Some people who take selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) antidepressants report that their experience of emotions is 'blunted'. This phenomenon is poorly understood.

AIMS:

To understand patients' experiences of this phenomenon.

METHOD:

Qualitative study, gathering data through individual interviews, a group interview and validation interviews; and searching patient websites for relevant posts.

RESULTS:

There was strong evidence that some people taking SSRIs experience significant emotional symptoms that they strongly attribute to their antidepressant. These emotional symptoms can be described within six key themes. A seventh theme represents the impact of these side-effects on everyday life, and an eighth represents participants' reasons for attributing these symptoms to their antidepressant. Most participants felt able to distinguish between emotional side-effects of antidepressants and emotional symptoms of their depression or other illness.

CONCLUSIONS:

Emotional side-effects of SSRIs are a robust phenomenon, prominent in some people's thoughts about their medication, having a demonstrable impact on their functioning and playing a role in their decision-making about antidepressant adherence.

>>42366350
>unwillingness of pharmacists to consider non-drug alternatives.

is the opposite of:

>pharma would look for non drug alternatives

This is an English-language board.

>>42366452
>reaching this hard to try to be right
>there is no way i conveyed my message incorrectly

General effects on all emotions

Most participants described a general reduction in the intensity of all the emotions that they experienced, so that all their emotions felt flattened or evened out, and their emotional responses to all events were toned down in some way. Very common descriptions of this phenomenon included feelings of emotions being ‘dulled’, ‘numbed’, ‘ flattened’ or completely ‘blocked’, as well as descriptions of feeling ‘blank’ and ‘ flat’. A few participants described a more extreme phenomenon, in which they did not experience any emotions at all. Others felt that they often experienced their emotions as thoughts rather than as feelings, as if their emotional experience had become more ‘ cognitive’ or ‘intellectual’. Some participants were able rationally to recognise situations in which they should feel a certain way, and yet the actual emotional response was not there or was altered in some way. Alternatively, some participants could still respond to emotional situations in an appropriate way, but without what they felt was real feeling.

Many participants described improved control over their emotions, so that what they considered to be excessive emotional reactions were reduced and more appropriate. This meant that they could more readily deal with or let go of certain emotions, and some participants described improved control over fear. Some participants described a difficulty in understanding or being in tune with what they were feeling, as if their own emotions were less clear to them. A few participants described that at times those emotions that were present seemed ‘unreal’, ‘fake’ or ‘ artificial’.

>>42366452

my post was supposed to say "pharma wouldnt look for non drug alternatives." Regardless yours is a redundant point. Why would pharma willingly consider non drug alternatives when their job is specifically to develop drugs? Kinda stupid to even bring it up IMO.

It would be the doctors who are considering non-drug alternatives.

Reduction of positive emotions

Almost all participants described a reduction in their positive emotions, which they attributed to their SSRI antidepressant. This reduction was manifest as both reduced intensity and reduced frequency of these emotions. Participants reported reduction in a wide range of positive emotions, including happiness, enjoyment, excitement, anticipation, passion, love, affection and enthusiasm.

Most participants reported that the intensity of positive emotions was ‘ dampened down’ or ‘toned down’, such that participants did not experience the same emotional ‘ lift’ or ‘high’. Many participants reported that they experienced positive emotions less often, and a few participants described that they were almost absent. Many participants described reduced enjoyment of, for example, social situations, hobbies or interests, beauty and nature, and music and other emotional media. Some participants reported that excitement and anticipation were reduced. They had, for example, lost the rush of excitement as an event approached, or no longer looked forward to things in the same way. Some participants felt reduced love or affection towards others and, in particular, reduced attraction towards their partner or reduced feelings of love or pride towards their family. Some participants described reduced passion, zest and enthusiasm for life and its components.

Reduction of negative emotions

All participants experienced a reduction of intensity or frequency of negative emotions, which they attributed to their SSRI antidepressant. Most participants considered that at some stage the reduction in negative emotions was beneficial to them, bringing relief from distressing negative emotions, and allowing normal daily life to resume. Some participants reported that negative emotions had been removed almost entirely. The negative emotions commonly described as reduced included sadness; emotional pain or distress; anger, irritability or aggression; and anxiety, worry or fear. Other negative emotions such as fear and surprise, embarrassment, guilt and shame, and disappointment were also mentioned to a degree. Although a reduction in these negative emotions was usually at some stage a benefit or relief, for many participants it had became an unwanted side-effect, impairing their quality of life. Participants described the need to be able to feel negative emotions when appropriate, such as grief or concern. Some were unable to respond with negative emotions, such as being unable to cry when this would have been appropriate or respond appropriately to bad news.

Emotional detachment

Most participants described feeling emotionally detached or disconnected, and attributed this to their SSRI antidepressant. Some participants described being detached from their surroundings, and described feelings of being ‘ in limbo’, of ‘unreality’ or ‘ disconnection’ and of feeling as though they were a ‘ spectator’ rather than a participant. Some participants described functioning like a ‘zombie’ or ‘ robot’, with reduced or absent emotional responses. Some participants described feeling detached from their own emotions and instincts. Most participants described that this emotional detachment extended to a detachment from other people. Specifically, they felt reduced sympathy and empathy, and felt detached during social interactions. In particular, many participants described an emotional detachment from their friends and family, including their partner or children. Participants’ attitudes towards emotional detachment from other people were mixed. Although this was often seen as an undesirable side-effect of antidepressants, it was also sometimes seen as beneficial, by allowing disengagement from others’ problems, others’ negative emotions and highly charged situations that would otherwise be upsetting.

Just not caring

Almost all participants described not caring about things that used to matter to them and attributed this change to their SSRI antidepressant. They cared less about themselves, about other people and about the consequences of their actions. Not caring could have both helpful and unhelpful consequences, reducing the sense of pressure and stress that some participants felt in their daily lives, yet increasing the likelihood that important tasks were neglected.

Many participants described a general feeling of indifference to things in life that used to matter to them. Many participants described feeling apathetic and unmotivated, despite their illness having improved and attributed this apathy to their antidepressant. Some participants felt that their sensible, safety-conscious, side had diminished and they just did not care as much about the consequences to themselves of their behaviour. As a result, they might behave in a less careful, considered way. A few participants went further, mentioning thoughts of self-harm or suicide that they related, at least in part, to feelings of emotional detachment and emotional numbness. One participant had started to self-harm in an effort to feel emotion. Many participants reported not caring as much about others, such as during social interaction, by being less sensitive or courteous towards other people. In addition, many described reduced concern for others’ feelings, and reduced concern about other peoples’ opinions of them. Some participants described being less concerned or even unable to care about responsibilities in their everyday lives, such as at home, in their finances or at work, and might include, for example, a lack of urgency or need to complete tasks.

Changed personality

Some participants felt their personality had changed in some way, or been lost, leaving them ‘like a shell’. In some ways, they were not the person that they used to be. Participants reported that specific aspects of their personality, and, in particular, emotional aspects, had been changed or lost, such that they were a different person. These changes were attributed by participants to their SSRI antidepressant. Some participants believed that at times their antidepressant had made them behave quite out of character. One participant believed that the medication had changed their personality permanently, having a lasting effect beyond finishing their medication.

Unhelpful effects. Some participants were concerned that blunting of their emotions and, thereby, of their day-to-day concerns, might mask or hide problems. Concerns were expressed that this might prevent them resolving their own emotional issues, prevent them engaging with other problems or issues requiring their attention, and ‘cover up’ who they really were. ‘Just not caring’ had an unhelpful effect on everyday responsibilities, resulting in financial problems, and problems at work or college. Emotional detachment from family and reduced emotional responsiveness had an unhelpful impact on family life, and on perceived quality of parenting. Reduced inspiration, imagination, motivation and passion for and enjoyment of creative activities had adversely affected some participants’ creativity. In some participants, emotional side-effects had led to reduced sociability. Emotional flattening and detachment from other people, and reduced concern for other people’s needs and feelings had unhelpful effects on relationships within families, with a significant other and at work. A few participants suggested that the emotional detachment and reduced anxiety arising from taking antidepressants was of concern when trying to make important life decisions, especially those with an emotional component.

Helpful effects. However, some participants described helpful effects on their everyday lives that they attributed to emotional side-effects. For example, the reduction of certain emotional responses, such as anger, aggression or worry, could have a beneficial effect on personal relationships. Many participants believed that the emotional detachment and reduced anxiety arising from taking antidepressants had improved their ability to take a step back from their situation, and thereby to think more clearly and objectively. This helped them in making good decisions day to day, helped them to deal more successfully with other people, and improved their self-confidence.

ITT people forget that pills are a crutch.

Diabetes medication, insulin, is a crutch to a lifestyle change

I have more. I know you faggots arent gonna read this shit. Take your damn pills, and in ten years when everyone "discovers!" That theyre bad for you, well, youll remember this.

>>42366597
>>42366613
>>42366585
>>42366568
>>42366556
>>42366536
>>42366517
>>42366448
>>42366383
Stop spamming the thread you fucking autist.

>>42365461
This is absolutely correct, I say this as someone who used to be on SSRI's for suicidal depression

>>42366666

You people ask for evidence and im fucking feeding it to you.

Im done spamming, if you want to know more do the fuckimg research yourself.

>>42366668

It amazes me that we've had guns in this country for 300 years, anti depressants for 30, people start shooting eachother in the last 20 years and everyone points their fingers at guns.

im not making some pro gun stance, but cmon its right there for everyone!

>>42366691
Use a 'hyperlink' autismo

>>42366716
I did, but no ones gonna look through them, so i just decided to post some of them.

>>42366739
>no one is replying to me
>ill just spam until someone does
i guess that works but thats going to further prevent anyone from reading your spam

>>42366716
Look, im just trying to help you people, i dont care if you think im an annoying autistic faggot. These drugs have personally affected people i love and care about and i dont want to see that happen without people knowing what they do, because as we can see in this thread, none of you know what they do.

>>42366700
What's really amazing at how powerful propaganda is. Practically every school shooter was on antidepressants, they have no positive affect and can cause psychosis and suicide, yet a huge number of people use them. People are just too naive to believe that doctors and researchers can be easily corrupted with money. In my eyes the medical industry has actually become less legitimate and more corrupt over time, advancing in the opposite direction.

>>42365617
Doctors used to recommend a lobotomy to cure depression.

>>42366766
everyone is well aware of side effects. You just dont want to believe people are smart enough to not reply to your post

>>42366787
yeah yeah, and they used to recommend cigs way back in the day. And scientists used to believe sperm cells were made of spirit. And people used to think witches were real.

>>42366799
What makes you so sure that people are so much smarter and more honest than they used to be? They are just as corrupt as ever.

>>42366788
Really? You knew these things do?

The whole controversy is that people are consenting to these medications without knowing what they do, either the potential and likely side effects, or even how addicted to thesw drugs they become. Because you become physically dependant on them.and it is a bitch to get off.

If all that is true and theres not evem compelling evidence that they work, why are they being prescribed en masse?

>>42366832
Because there isnt another temporary option. Go back through the thread. Its already been agreed upon that doctors should advise patients of prolonged use and how taking away this option leads doctors with no solutions and so we have to further efforts into studying to come up with better options. Jesus, stop spamming now.

>>42366787
Funny enough, the first generation of these drugs were considered by pyschiatrists at the time to be "chemical lobotomies"

The guy who invented the lobotmy won the nobel peace prize in 1949.

>>42366827
>denies all advances in medical science
>people used to live till 120 years old back in the day!!!

people have always been corrupt. This is not what this thread is about tho. Go to /x/ with that talk

File: 1428447833773.jpg (13KB, 300x191px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 300x191px

>>42366827

>>42366861
The evidence show that the best temprorary option is not these drugs, thats what im saying. They exacerbate symptoms in the long run. Study after study shows it to be true.

Maybe, i dunno, changing your life, getting good advice, exposure to new things, and changing your diet are better solutions?

The thing is we dont know b3cause that study has never been done. We know that people who dont take antidepressants recover better than those they do, but weve never seen this compared to those who say for instance, change their diet and exercise.

>>42366879
>advances in medical science
>they literally don't know how depression works and the chemical imbalance theory isn't even acknowledged by actual researchers, despite it being the basis for SSRI treatment

>>42365461
I know that this is only an anecdote but they worked very well for me. I took escitalopram for a year and was able to function again. The only side effect was a delayed orgasm which positively influenced my sex life. I have yet to experience the llong-term side-effects you mentioned.

>>42366906
>i can develop the cure to cancer faster than all these medical scientists
>whats taking them so long!

yes, yes. these scientists dont know anything and you are smart enough to know its no use. we get it.

>>42366923
You are functionally retarded

File: suicide rates.png (506KB, 1719x1123px) Image search: [Google]

506KB, 1719x1123px

>>42366923
I'm not talking about cancer, I'm talking about depression, and the science behind depression treatment has not advanced at all, it has actually regressed. If the science has advanced, why are more people committing suicide than ever?

Was on antidepressants for 5 years, ssri and the other kind two different periods. Fuck that shit don't do it bro. That crap messes with your body it's a Jew scam.

>>42366905
>we don't know because the study has never been done
>we do know because people do better without anti depressants

........
also, diagnosis of people with depression is another problem you avoid to make yourself sound right.
If you take away this option, the doctors will just tell the patient to basically fuck off and get spiritual. You know how whacky thats going to sound out of a doctors mouth?

>>42366922
Im happy to hear that. Seriously.

I'd say take a moment to really assess how you feel. I was in a similar situation i.e. long term relationship, high pay corporate career, good exercise routine but ridiculous tendency to feel anxious and suicidal ideations. Lived in UK so Doc got me on to CBT. Didn't help. I met a new girl which prompted me to leave my life, my relationship, my fancy apartment, job canned (truly burnt my bridges) and move to be near this girl. Anxiety gone, depression gone. Now married, have own business, can't even relate to past selfs situation. Is fucking amazing.
Not necessarily going to apply to you, but really be honest with yourself about your situation and whether you will be any better off in 5 years if it doesn't drastically change.
Good luck.

>>42366936
Speaking of regression:

Have you undertaken any statistical analysis of your assumptions to see how correlated increased drug usage is with increasing suicide rates?

If not. Shut up.

>>42366936
advancing doesn't mean being able to treat people better. It means to understand more of what is actually going on. The fact that we know more about it now means we are advancing and know what works and what doesn't. If you truly believe everything will be perfect from the start of studies, go ahead and try to develop a cure yourself that will work 100% of the time.
>>42366930
you missed the point, retard.

>>42366976
SSRIs are proven to cause suicide.
It literally says so on the box

>>42366957

Im saying the study hasnt been done that shows the effectivess pf positive lifestyle improvement over antdeprrssants. The studies have been done between antdepressant groups and versus placebo, and thats it. No lifestyle changes. Stop being dense.


Theres a problem with the diagnosis of these "diseases" from the start.

The dsm3 in 1980 changed the model of psychiatric illness to a disease, like a physical ailment. Before it wasnt classified as this.

This is what predicated the use of ssris in the first place. Its a disease, you can cure it. We have the pill.

>>42367042
then why dont you wait or contribute yourself to come up with a solution? It works for some but not for others. You want to take it away for those it helped?

>>42366970
Thanks dude.
Im the OP.

I sort of lied about the job.

I had a job as an engineer in central London which I was doing really well with (in terms of job performance) . The stress and anxiety finally got to me and I could see it was damaging my relationship with my long term gf.

I have since quit that job, got a new better paying one with less hours in a related but different type of engineering which I hope will improve my life.

Either way, I understand fully that I need to change my outlook on life to deal with my highly neurotic personality. Finding a lifestyle that suits me.

I'm taking active steps to change things. Really appreciate the advice.

>>42367080
>It works for some but not for others
So did placebo? Do you understand how studies work?

The solution to depression is already known anyway, it is a matter of changing your diet and lifestyle.

>>42367080
Why are you being deliberately dense?

I am trying to help by informing you of the best solution we know of, and telling you its probably not these drugs.

Why do you defend them? If they barely work better than placebos and people who dont take them are more likely to be fine later on, why defend them? The science is pretty clear on this. You can look for yourself. I know what it says.

>>42367097
>solution is diet and lifestyle change
>but i dont want to post up proof

You telling me those people who take SSRI's which helped them are just taking sugar pills? You are really reaching.

>>42367114
I dont understand. You say there hasn't been enough studies done on alternatives but then say science prove that alternatives work. Then I say there hasn't been enough time to come up with a solution but you disagree but then go back to saying there has been enough studies done to come up with a solution.
I am saying for now, the best course of action is to use this as a temporary solution and not a long term solution since its more harmful after prolonged use. Until then, you have to just wait until more of this subject matter is understood before stating you know everything.

File: k.png (1001KB, 1500x753px) Image search: [Google]

1001KB, 1500x753px

>>42367097
I was well into fitness before I started taking my NDRI.
Please post proof that they will cause harm to me. I wholeheartedly believe that Wellbutrin is an incredibly safe drug.
I am, however, very much open to being corrected.

>>42367096
You're welcome. Usually just lurk but was struck by how close the situ was to mine. I was mid-20s and got into my specific career I studied for and was making 50k a year. But as you say stress negates money a lot of the time. The biggest thing was leaving the woman I had been with for a decade and whom I had a flat with. After that quitting the job was not too hard, they offered me something better which I turned down (and so I burnt my bridges with that industry forever). It was really scary at first because I went from huge income to fuck all but then I got work overseas and met a guy who became a best friend. We started a business together and now I'm better off in every conceivable way.

Its really easy to get stuck in a situation when you are younger and think that there is no possible way to have something better and you are fucking miserable so fuck it... top yourself. But it just isn't the case. If you are under 40, the world is still your oyster, you can make your situation better and you always have options.
Glad to hear you improved your job situ. I know London can be fucking horrendous.

>>42365461
You can just reset your brain using electroshock therapy. The serotonin pathways will work again after that.

>>42367124
The whole point I was making is that the research is corrupt anyway. The conventional methods do not work, and there is no incentive for researchers to actually solve the problem, so there isn't a whole lot of research out there not inolving drugs. However, some things have been noted to help against depression, notably omega 3 supplementation and exercise. And honestly, it is just common sense that depression is caused by putting shit into your body and being in a highly stressful or otherwise shitty environment.

File: hqdefault-308x289.jpg (33KB, 308x289px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 308x289px

>>42365461
my understanding is that SSRI's are major contributors to mass shootings i.e. Columbine.
http://www.cchrflorida.org/antidepressants-are-a-prescription-for-mass-shootings/

>>42367739
this is underreported because mainstream media outlets are funded by big pharma - think of how many times you've seen an ad for medication while watching the news, then consider that news orgs need to keep these companies happy to stay afloat

Taking Lexapro 10mg daily. A god damn lifesaver when I couldn't exercise from surgery.

SSRI's came to market with too much hype and biased studies, but compared to placebo and combined with therapy has saved countless lives and years lost to depression. Call it clinical sense, I've seen them work myself.

>>42365869

I don't want to get too much into the subject, but as a physician I'd suggest you go and find sources from research published in journals that actually matter in medicine scientific world.


As a scholar you would do that, but I think you are satisfied by just talking out of your ass on the internet.

File: 635328094.jpg (166KB, 412x594px) Image search: [Google]

166KB, 412x594px

as a medstudent this is what i can tell you.

we dont know what the best option to treat depression is, but what we do know is that SSRI's are currently the best option.

just like, when we look back, other stuff used to be the best treatment, i.e a lobotomy

ofcourse, nowadays we look back and think "crazy!" but i can assure you that most of the medical profession isnt out there to make a buck out of you.

also we're moving towards more patient-friendly treatments, you can always say no, go to a different doctor and or use alternative treatments.

there are some neurological and psychiatric studies being done to see how for example your gut bacteria affects your mood - we already have big disparities between people who eat well, such as affluent people and other people who do not eat well because they might not be able to afford a quality diet.

also keep in mind, the medical profession even though it has advanced alot in the recent decades, psychiatry and neurology are also still in its infancy. check out how much progress we make each year in scientific outlets, do you think we would keep striving forward if we already had it figured it out? nope.


also excuse my english, im from switzerland

>>42367997
>>42368389
OP here, good to get some semi/fully qualified advice.

I know how you guys feel about threads like this.

As an engineer, when I post on /diy/ and get shouted down about how 'concrete don't need no damn reinforcement', I get irritated too.

>>42368389
Working on the gut bacteria too.

I was on antibiotics for my acne, so I've been taking probiotics and prebiotics to restore my gut. Seems to work in that I don't shit my guts out any more, but long way to go yet.

Hopefully a 5 pronged attack will work:
>Diet / nutrition
>Exercise
>Lifestyle change
>Therapy
>SSRIs

>>42365494
>Also theyre terribly addictive and incredibly hard to get off of.
Fucking this. I was on zoloft for 4 years. Once I stopped it, it took months for the withdrawal to go away. [spoilers] apparently I was one of the lucky ones. I've read of some people having withdrawal symptoms for years after stopping ssri use after having used them for a shorter amount of time than me. [/spoiler]

>>42369064
>4 years of zoloft

the max should be 2 years no?

>>42369333
i've had some shitty doctors