Does the ketogenic diet cure diabetes?

It can back you away from pre-diabetes.

I don't think it can CURE actual, full blown diabetes but it can definitely help you manage it.

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>keto treats autism

>>42225661
>keto cures autism
if only

>>42225672
Do you have an actual scientific paper to back this claim? Generally interested, not being a dick

>>42225722
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4063858/

honestly i don't give a shit what it does or doesn't cure, it's ripping the fat off my body like a kid with christmas wrapping paper.

>>42225773
Very interesting. Thank you for actually delivering.

I am on a weight loss program at the moment and that usually results in low carb intake. I do struggle to get my fats in. I eat a lot of lean proteins and greek yoghurt so I'm not hungry and my protein intake is good, but I do worry about my fat intake. Any suggestions?

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>>42225816
Same, and if it cures autism then I will finally be a human.

>>42225661
What a bullshit image. Keto is a meme.

>LE REDDIT KETO CURES ALL DISEASE

I went Keto for a while after a bad MS attack. Was half paralyzed for a couple months. Keto brought he inflammation down and doctor's were amazed at the lack of scar tissue apparent in my next MRI.

Anecdotal I know but just sharing. Also good for focus.

>>42226653
t. redditor trying to false flag

No.
>T. Dietician

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No. But it will get you shredded and control your mood swings.

>>42226949
Very true. After the Keto flu wears off, that is.

>>42225867
Avocados and avocado oil with foods gets me across the line.

Cures with death

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>>42226905
Cute you have a bachelors degree

>>42226978
I never get keto flu. I'd imagine it's worth persevering through.

>>42225867

It's got nothing to do with the fact the diet is ketogenic, any low carb diet will work, so will fasting.

no carbs = baseline insulin -> mobilisation of fatty stores on liver + no shuttling of glucose by insulin = return to normal beta cell insulin production + normalised insulin sensitivity = managed or reversed diabetes.

>>42225717
keto IS autism

>>42226892
Was saturated fat high or low?

>>42227274
I'd say medium. I cook my eggs with a pat of butter, all eggs. Not much pork. Ate a steak on weekends. But mostly fish and chicken.

That's probably low relative to the normal butgerland diet, now that I think about it.

>>42227374
Oh and my guilty please, every few weeks or so, is a low carb burger from hardees or Wendy's. So there's your saturated fat.

>>42225661
Once you're shooting up insulin, there's no getting off it.

>>42227548
Bump for pre-diabetics on this board. Everyone should see this.

Some people say that too much fat and no carbs will make you pre diabetic if you ar enot already.

I think that does depend on the fats though. Healthier keto fats are probably better for you.

>>42227569
Remind them they regularly get their feet and legs amputated as well.

>>42225661
Dr Neal Bernard's plant based , low fat , high starch diet can cure diabetes. It eliminates the intracellular lipids and cholesterol that promote insulin resistance and starch and o sugar help control blood sugar levels.

Intermittent fasting works also

>>42227727
He's a quack, vegan propaganda. Look at pajeet country, highest amount of vegans anywhere, highest rates of beetus too.

>>42226892
Keto is perfect for autoimmune disease. I'm in remission from Crohn's disease, keto for five years. Unlike my fellow sufferers, I will never need an artificial butthole.

If you fast every other day, you can lower and eliminate the deteriorating effects of diabetes and lower the amount of supplemental insulin you need to take over time - sometimes to none.

The reason why is that by regularly fasting, you experience extended periods of low insulin levels that reverses the effects of insulin insensitivity.

Keto works similarly because insulin is activated in response to carbohydrates.

>>42227750
His stuff is peer reviewed though. He is vegan but he's far from a quack.

Many of the Indians with beetus are those who eat american processed foods like sugar laden sodas and candy.
Diabetus was rare in India until convenience foods.

>>42228470
Peer review means jack when the people reviewing your shit are also quacks

>>42225661
Keto can effectively roll back pre-diabetes, even early diabetes. It also starves cancer cells because they can't metabolize ketone bodies. Keto has neuroprotective qualities, which is why it works so well with epileptics.

>>42225661
Can someone provide me with a keto-noob diet link ?

>>42227548
>>42227569
Not true

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Is there any reason not to do this diet as your default diet? I've read a few arguments about how it is the superior all around diet and that it can contribute to brain function, sleep quality and consistent energy levels

I've been doing it for a 3 weeks and I have had nothing but a positive experience.

Someone tell me why its bad so I can keep getting lost in life

>>42227791
and protein

>>42228598
The big worry is heart disease and cholesterol.
A lot of people on Ketogenic diet see their cholestorol shoot up and the blood pressure rise.
Some low carbers say we should ignore cholesterol numbers , but that's just because they need to keep selling books and the doctors know what they're doing.

Processed meat has been shown through the scientific literature to be linked to cancer as well as the heme iron in red meat.
So definitely cut back on the bacon and beef if you're on it.

Keto tend to deplete the glycogen stores in muscle , so you might experience reduced performance .

>>42228598
If you're into lifting heavy you should take a small amount of carbs pre-workout. Ignore the post above about heart disease.

>>42228598
how i felt on keto

>always energy
>mood is good
>reduced inflammation
>reduced anxiety
>better sleep
>just everything feels better

cons:
>less speed in lifts
>muscles appear depleted
>hard to bulk on keto

>>42228635
>The big worry is heart disease

>>42228649
>Ignore the post above about heart disease.

goddamnit

>>42225661
>Depression
Is this true?

>>42228635
Its carbs that causes cancer. Cancer is found in patients with a scan which shows where your body has most glucosis because cancer cells can only feed on sugar.

Red meat only causes cancer because cows are fed with cancerous hormones

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>>42228692
It tends to stabilize mood swings, so it should be effective for those who have highs of energy/motivation and lows of depression. I don't know how it would work on chronic depression.
Keep in mind that this is mostly anecdotal. There are very few studies that looked into psychotherapy and ketosis. See this review from 2017 for details:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5357645/

Also there is this overview from 2012:
"Mood stabilizing properties of the KD have been hypothesized (El-Mallakh and Paskitti, 2001), but no clinical studies have been conducted as of this writing. The potential role of the KD in depression has been studied in the forced choice model of depression in rats, which led to a beneficial effect similar to that afforded by conventional antidepressants (Murphy et al., 2004; Murphy and Burnham, 2006)."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3321471/

So from a scientific point of view, we don't know yet if keto helps with depression.

>>42225661
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWaOX2aC9_A

What's the best way to get started on keto these days?

>>42225773

>After 12 months, the LCD group showed a significant decrease in weight compared with baseline (P<0.001). In contrast, the body weight of the control group increased significantly compared with baseline (P<0.01). The weight of the LCD group was significantly lower than that of the control group at 12 months (P<0.001; Table 2 and

No wonder the low-carb diet showed improvements. A low-carb diet also isn't necessarily keto. If it was a very high fat diet rather than high protein, they may not have seen improvements even with the weight loss.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22030989

>Consumption of a high-fat (HF) diet results in insulin resistance and glucose intolerance. Weight loss is often recommended to reverse these metabolic alterations and the use of a high-protein (HP), low-carbohydrate diet is encouraged.

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High fat diets cause diabetes.

>>42228747

>Its carbs that cause cancer

Berries, sweet potatoes, carrots, and peas are carcinogens?

>>42228889
>2680 calories
holy fuck

>>42225672
Any diet where you don't stuff yourself with sugar will back you away from pre diabetes

>>42228889
Where is that graph from? Most likely from Greger and his camp, I guess.
Those values only make sense if the subjects were not keto adapted, meaning they were within the two to three weeks of a ketogenic diet. If the body isn't used to burning fats for energy, the liver will produce extra glucose for fuel. The low fat diets would show lower blood glucose, since there is a lot of insulin that quickly reduces blood sugar by shuttling the sugars into the fat cells. This doesn't happen in the fat heavy diet, since there's barely any insulin. Also this condition should be reversed after about a month of ketosis.

Reminder that cholesterol is good for you.
Reminder that elevated LDL has not been shown to cause significant absolute risk increases for heart disease.
Reminder that, actually, low overall cholesterol has been shown to increase absolute risk for cancer and heart disease.
Reminder that it is stress and inflammation that causes cumulative damage to arteries (which cholesterol then has to repair) that eventually causes blockage and heart attacks.
Reminder that inflammation is a result of sedentary lifestyles and high carb diets (also smoking).

Reminder that statin drugs prescribed to combat heart disease are almost completely ineffective in reducing absolute risk of heart attack.
Reminder that studies linking LDL to heart disease always use relative risk calculations which are worthless.

>>42228994
this

also statins have some pretty nasty side effects

>>42228973
>identity politics and non sequitur
Typical ketard desu

>>42228912
Fucking manlets, 2680 is below my maintenance

>>42229017
>non sequitur
Just admit you don't have the faintest idea about the basics of endocrinology. That was an explanation of those figures based on the charitable assumption that the graph isn't pure propaganda.

>>42228973

>This doesn't happen in the fat heavy diet, since there's barely any insulin.

Animal protein in meat and dairy leads to an insulin response. Beef is as insulinoemic as sugar.
https://www.drcarney.com/blog/entry/low-carb-theory-regarding-meat-insulin-is-flawed
http://cdn.nutrition.org/content/1/4/e000299

>>42229056

The data in that study was collected literally by telephone asking people to self report their dietary intake and then estimate average nutrient intake from that data.

Their physical activity was also likewise estimated based on very loose terminology and categorisation.

These studies are fucking useless because there is no outright control because it's fucking impossible to do so.

All that ever gets shown is that people who eat a lot of meat (who also eat a fuck ton of processed crap and are typically sedentary) are unhealthy. It's weak correlation at best.

>>42228994

Lazy bait

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>>42229056
We already know that protein raise insulin more than fats and less than carbs. This is why people on keto avoid high protein ratios, since the extra protein is turned into glucose and raises insulin, thus kicking them out of ketosis.
>Beef is as insulinoemic as sugar.
This is a lie. This is the kind of data you get from following only a closed loop of blogs around that Greger fellow. You're behaving like a cultist, to be frank.
And about that study you posted: It's about protein, not fat. You have no idea what ketosis is, obviously (hint: it's not high protein), so your arguments will fall flat with anyone who is aware of the basics of ketogenic diets. Also, it's an observational study. It can only establish correlations or lack of correlations. It can only be used to formulate hypotheses which would then need to be tested in clinical studies.

If you want actual clinical studies that explore various hypotheses about fat and diabetes:
"The LCKD improved glycemic control in patients with type 2 diabetes such that diabetes medications were discontinued or reduced in most participants. Because the LCKD can be very effective at lowering blood glucose, patients on diabetes medication who use this diet should be under close medical supervision or capable of adjusting their medication."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1325029/

>>42225661
Yes. Also fasting can cure it. You need to keep the diet up for a long time, the body WILL recover. Most metabolic syndromes are curable.

>>42225717
if your autism is being caused by some undiagnosed allergy or digestive issue
Then yea changing your diet can effect it

>>42225661
You know what keto is lacking most of the time?

Bone broth. Why dont you keto fags eat more of that? We didnt only used to eat muscle tissue.

>>42229130
He actually didn't say anything incorrect, friend

>>42225661
No, but it can prevent it and cure pre-diabetes. But so will fat loss and working out.

>>42229226

I would take the findings of a group of Atkins Foundation researchers published in their own science journal with a grain of salt.

>patients with an average BMI of 41 who claimed to eat 2k calories per day (and the scientists accepted this data), cut down to 1500 calories, lost weight, diabetes got better
>fat and protein intake stayed the same, only diet change was cutting down on carbs (calories)

>>42229226
Just looking at that pic I don't see high protein foods raising insulin very much. Only baked beans is listed there and that is made with a lot of sugar. The foods high in carbohydrates that don't raise the insulin level much, have a high percentage of their carbs as indigestible fiber, which obviously doesn't get digested despite being listed as carb.

I honestly dont know what to think anymore, im just a /fat/ trying to lose weight, and now im reading about meat causing cancer, this causes heart disease, no this causes it. And you can literally find "world famous doctors" that support any of these theories.

>>42225816
Does it? I've always been under the impression that keto was ineffective. How does the diet itself work?

>>42229416

Whatever you don't want to be true is probably the most likely thing.

>>42229416

The most important thing is cutting to a healthy weight and being active regularly rather than sedentary.

That makes the biggest difference.

Cutting out refined sugars and simple carbs is also a good bet.

After that it's up to you but I would recommend a low carb diet. Try it for a good few months, get your blood work done and adjust from there.

>>42229416
It's red meat and processed meat (sausage, ham, salami) that are supposed to cause cancer. Not all meat in general. This is linked to reactions that happen in your stomach when digesting chemicals contained in these meat products, which in turn can lead to stomach cancer. This relates to red meat cooked at temperatures higher than 150°C (300°F) in particular.
Researchers suggest that people who eat a lot of meat might also be missing out on protective foods like fruit and vegetables or wholegrain cereals, which in turn prevent stomach cancer.

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>>42229468

>This is linked to reactions that happen in your stomach when digesting chemicals contained in these meat products, which in turn can lead to stomach cancer.

The main thing is colon cancer, which in processed meats are mainly related to carcinogenic nitrosamines that form in the curing process, while for plain red meat a number of other things including even the type of iron are implicated in carcinogenesis when passing through the colon.

People need to eat more beans. Like every bad thing meat is linked to, beans are the opposite.

>>42229427
>How does the diet itself work?
It keeps insulin down. There is no fat burning while insulin is high. In a way, it simulates fasting, as you can get a similar internal environment and similar results with intermittent fasting and water fasting.
Why people use it, is because it helps regulate hunger, and once you get used to it, after a few weeks, hunger is no longer an issue, and you will naturally eat less than the daily expenditure. Keep in mind that calories in calories out still applies, it's just that people eating high fat low carb diets will feel full very fast, as the ghrelin/leptin balance is no longer disrupted by insulin.
For a more in depth explanation read this article:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945587/

>>42229492

> There is no fat burning while insulin is high

That's pretty vague. Whatever high insulin is supposed to be, it prevents you from burning any fat? How does that work with calories-in-calories-out that you say still applies? I don't even see anything about that in the article you linked

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What the fuck do I eat on Keto other than chicken and beef?

>>42229548
all other meats
eggs
cheese
vegetables
nuts

>>42229557
>cheese
>vegetables
carbs tho?

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>>42229239
>Autism is caused by allergies

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>>42229562
what about them?

you also don't really need to worry about carbs from (non-starchy) vegetables.

>>42229536
High and low insulin is relative. The higher it is, the more its effects are felt:
"The major effects of insulin on muscle and adipose tissue are: (1) Carbohydrate metabolism: (a) it increases the rate of glucose transport across the cell membrane, (b) it increases the rate of glycolysis by increasing hexokinase and 6-phosphofructokinase activity, (c) it stimulates the rate of glycogen synthesis and decreases the rate of glycogen breakdown. (2) Lipid metabolism: (a) it decreases the rate of lipolysis in adipose tissue and hence lowers the plasma fatty acid level, (b) it stimulates fatty acid and triacylglycerol synthesis in tissues, (c) it increases the uptake of triglycerides from the blood into adipose tissue and muscle, (d) it decreases the rate of fatty acid oxidation in muscle and liver. (3) Protein metabolism: (a) it increases the rate of transport of some amino acids into tissues, (b) it increases the rate of protein synthesis in muscle, adipose tissue, liver, and other tissues, (c) it decreases the rate of protein degradation in muscle (and perhaps other tissues). These insulin effects serve to encourage the synthesis of carbohydrate, fat and protein, therefore, insulin can be considered to be an anabolic hormone."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21864752

Note the effects on fats:
-decreases lipolysis, which is the breakdown of lipids
-it stimulates fatty acid synthesis, so new fat is formed
-increases the uptake of triglycerides from the blood into adipose tissue and muscle, meaning it encourages fat storage
-decreases the rate of fatty acid oxidation, so less fat burning over all

>>42229562

It's all about absorption rates. Carbs that break down easy spike insulin levels. Carbs in a lot of veg aren't broken down or absorbed.

>>42229536
>How does that work with calories-in-calories-out that you say still applies?
You can't break the laws of physics, obviously.
What happens when you eat less calories than maintenance levels for the day, but your insulin is continuously high, is that your body can't access the stored fats for the remaining energy needed. The result is that you'll feel sluggish and hungry. So your calories out will be reduced by your body forcing you to not move very much, not do any difficult mental work, and not raise the workload for the heart.
With low insulin throughout the day, you should not have these issues, as the calorie deficit should be covered by the body fat without much issue.

Does it cure animated caramel pasta addiction?

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>>42229742
No, you'll have to switch to Gagh.

Remember, it's best when served live.

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beyond and wonder at it.

>>42230311
>behold!

meant, well whatever.

>>42225661
>Ketogenic diet shows promise for treating Autism
AHAHAHAHA how fucking dumb are people?

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HUMANS CAN'T EAT MEAT

THIS IS SOME CRAY CRAY SHIT

>>42229462
This is mainly what im going for. Trying to undo the years of shitty eating/activity habits that ive established. I'll def keep low carb in mind, but for now i guess its one thing at a time.

>>42230898

>one thing at a time

That's it man, just keep improving bit by bit. Trying to take it all on at once, without strict guidance and help can be too much.

That's why I think that basically the quickest, most positive and most noticeable change you can make is dropping sugar and considerably reducing carbs.
A few days/weeks of adjustment to it and you will feel incredibly better and you will eviscerate the fat on your body. It will melt off you and you will be satiated the entire time.

That's why a lot of people struggle to lose weight simply by dropping calories. If you're used to eating carbs for sustenance, reducing your overall caloric intake just leaves you hungry and miserable. When you take you nutrients primarily from fat and protein you will find that you get satisfactorily full much easier and consume lower calories naturally without even intending to.

>>42228686
I would say keto is a more of a diet to cut fat on, not to bulk up on.

Definitely would decrease the fats and increase protein consumption to get that edge

>>42227016
>bachelor's degree
lololololol

>>42229416
>>42230898
If my experience helps, I just cut out sugar to get from 450 to 380, then did myfitnesspal + 10,000 steps a day to get down to 275 but then I got stuck even though i was doing the recommended calories. I decided to try keto and went from 275 down to 210 (current) and I lost weight so fucking fast on keto I wish I had started from my maximum doing this.

But honestly I was so /fat/ back then that even the smallest changes seemed impossible. I did a lot of "replacement" stuff back when I did 380-275 like instead of chocolate bars I'd eat those sugary gatorade protein bars, and light beer instead of soda. But if you aren't as fat as that maybe starting keto would be easier for you. I learned discipline very slowly...

>>42231093
What was your daily keto eating like? I'm around 308 now and want to get to 200-220.

>>42228994
Source??

>>42226892

Rheumatoid Arthritis sufferer here. I went on an auto-immune paleo protocol last year after I was diagnosed. Not quite keto but much higher in fat and lower in carbs than I was eating. After months my flare ups have disappeared and I've been symptom free for almost a year now. Still able to lift pretty fucking heavy with no apparent damage to my joints.

No, nothing does. Dieting in general can reverse pre-diabetes, as can aerobic exercise due to upregulation of insulin-independent glucose transporters in skeletal muscle.

>>42228598
Without carbs your basal glycogen is much lower, so your max power will be marginally decreased and your endurance greatly decreased. Could also interfere with anabolism. However, you also loose a lot of water weight, making you shredded. So in short, bulk with carbs, cut with keto

>>42228635
It's not "processed meat", it's specifically nitrate preservatives. Just read the fucking label

>>42228747
Red meat does not cause cancer. Being fat causes cancer, and red meat is associated eith being fat.
Nitrate preserved meats like bacon or sausage are a bit carcinogenic. Regular pork is fine though.

>>42229488
Kill yourself. Red meat is only a type 2 carcinogen, IE, "we have no real evidence but we wish we did"

>>42233292

Can you get around this by having some carbs before you lift

>>42229239
Then you didn't actually have autism in the first place.

Can you bulk on a keto diet? If not will bulking on a carb diet and then maintaining on keto work?

>>42233348
The effect would be marginal. Glycogen synthesis takes time. A big carb heavy meal a few hours in advance would work, once, but obviously this isn't an option for a daily routine or even 3 days a week if you want a generally ketogenic diet. Long distance runners can use this strategy however, by not eating carbs for several days before a competition to increase insulin sensitivity, then eating a ton of carbs before competition to create an above normal glycogen level. This technique is called carb cycling. But again, not really an option for regular training sessions.

>>42233415
To the first, yes, but probably not as efficiently. To the second, absolutely.

>>42229562
>carbs tho?
Not really an issue. You can consume 20g of carbs a day on Keto. Choose a cheese with the lowest carbs you can find on the supermarket. If you are a drinker you can allow yourself a Red wine. Carbs from vegetables will never get you in trouble with keto.

>>42233432
Awesome to hear that.I am almost two weeks into this keto and my mood and energy have been the best I've felt in years and do plan to bulk up but don't wanna fall on the carbs wagon again and lose progress.

>cures depression
Really?

>>42229416
They all agree being a lardass is prejudicial.

>>42229019
It's also only 300 above the baseline American RDA. The 2k figure is only to make the percentages and math easy on labels.

>>42233498
Yup. Not sure how but I would assume cause of the fats in the food and cause of the lack of sugar and carbs keep your energy stable which means cholesterol is stable and not spiking up and down that carbs and sugar use which makes you happy a lot

>>42233498
It changes brain metabolism so it's not impossible.

>>42233498
your depression/bipolar will get REALLY bad on the first few days of Keto and then you are in the clear

>>42233526
It has to do with energy management in the brain. Without glucose the brain uses ketone bodies to generate ATP. During induction there is an energy crisis. This is why people describe foggy headedness on keto until they get used to it.

This is why ketosis diets are purported to, but not completely proven, to work on anything involving overactive brain centers (OCD, ADD, ADHD).

It has the strongest effect on seizure activity because the neurons don't have enough energy to synchronize into that pathological behavior.

>>42233498
Debilitating depression sufferer here.
I noticed a pretty drastic change in mood when I switched over to a keto diet.

So much so that I wondered why no doctor (who just gave me pills to solve my problem) had suggested changing my diet before. While keto hasn't been a cure-all, it has made huge improvements to my overall mood. I don't know the science behind it, nor do I need to because the results I experience are enough for me to stick with it.

Cutting out carbs and sugar have improved my energy, stabilized my mood swings and increased my mental clarity/ ability to focus.

>>42233610
>I wondered why no doctor (who just gave me pills to solve my problem) had suggested changing my diet before
Cause they need to jew you out of your money to comeback for more bro

>>42231093
It definitely helps! Im around 300 or so, so around where you were at when you started keto. I think im gonna just go for it and see with bloodwork the effects.
Also congrats on the huge weight loss, you made it brah.

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>>42233608

ANECDOTE

I am a very calm guy, I work a stressful job and I never let it get to me. My coworkers always note my handling of stress, or lack of stress I general.

When I first started keto, a few days in I got irritated at someone and got so angry I started yelling at them in front of everyone. I knew what I was doing was wrong but I didn't care. This is unlike me, I don't get mad much less yell at my coworkers.

I'm not saying the transition into ketosis made me a fucking asshole but there was definitely something a little off with my emotional homeostasis.

plant based > keto

History and science back plant based

The only thing keto has going for it is temporary weight loss for fat fucks who can't stop eating unhealthy shit

>>42234596
t. Vegan

>>42234596
false

>>42226978
Means you're a water/saltlet. Up the amount and won't feel a thing.

>>42228532
https://ketodietapp.com/Blog/page/KetoDiet-Buddy

>>42228598
Keto is like magic if you're a heavy fat fuck. As you approach normal weights the loss becomes no different than traditional diets.

Assuming not obease, its mainly going to coe down to what you want your diet to consist of: dairy & fatty meats or bread/fruits & lean meats.

How many grams of carbs is a good place to start on a keto?

>>42235648
<20

THough some can do it at < 50

>>42235551
Any recommended amounts? Thanks for the link btw.

I'm 5'6 153lbs and started this diet and love it and it's positives but wasn't sure how long I could before I would have to switch up to start gaining muscle? What's the best diet to switch to to gain muscle from a keto?

I've been doing <5 carbs am I a faggot

>>42235806
>https://ketodietapp.com/Blog/page/KetoDiet-Buddy
so you pretty much just eating meat?

>>42235734
You're gonna need to up protein and lower fat to gain muscle, basically switching over to lowcarb instead of full-on keto

>>42235874
I guess would <100g of carbs and high protein be okay?

>>42225661
We had a thread the other day with a vegan image boasting much of the same un-backed claims.
It got absolutely torched. And resulted in a flame war

What's so different with keto that it leads to such a level-headed discussion with posting sources and weighing pro's and cons?

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>>42235912
Yup, that usually works for me and I stay pretty lean. I don't count calories but my only carb sources are leafy greens and nuts, so I'm pretty sure they're way below 100g daily. I eat a good 300ish grams of protein a day for dat dere satiety and just to make sure I'm gaining muscle

>>42235953

Big Carbohydrate shills

>>42235715
Macros? Start with a max of 30g of carbs. after 4 weeks you can work your way up to 40-50 max. But assuming you can cook worth a shit you won't be trying to push your carb max anyways.

Protiens is about 20% of your TDEE or 1g per lean body weight. Rest goes into fat.

Also as no one has said it yet, a major con of keto is that cheat days are highly discouraged. It can take days to get back into keto meaning if you exceed the carb limit.

>>42235969
Chances are you're low carb but not in the actual ketonics process with that protein consumption. Wouldn't change a thing if it works though.

>>42235969
Damn bro. I'll definitely have to try that. I love how this keto makes me feel and don't wanna give it up but I think the diet you're on would be something that can work.

>>42236035
Oh yeah def not in ketosis, I'm trying to bulk at the moment. If I notice too much definition going away, I cut back on the protein and cut for a week or so until I'm back where I want to be in terms of bf%

>>42236084
If you like working out fasted like I do, I recommend bcaas so you don't go into gluconeogenesis during

>>42236101
what bcaas is good

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>>42236152
I like these cause 64 servings for 23$ at Costco and they got a lil bit of caffeine, l-arginine, and beta alanine so it doubles as a preworkout

>>42236277
not to mention tons of sugar sweetners

>>42225661
Look up 2 keto dudes. Reversed type 2 diabetes with keto.

>>42236277
>>42236309
I'll definitely have to check those out. Thanks man!

>>42236309
Artificial sweeteners don't do anything adverse in my opinion, to each his own

>>42236471
No probs brodie

>>42225661
Sure it help type 2 and can cure it in some cases. It helps reset insulin sensitivity.

>>42236481
Any other tips or advice I should know

>>42236589
Don't become obsessed with constantly looking photoshoot-ready whenever you walk by a mirror without a pump and after a meal. It'll lead you down an unhealthy path of unrealistic expectations.

I quit drinking every day and started keto at the same time and oh my fucking shit I'm slowly morphing into a god.

I started at 6'3" 215 and I'm 190 now after like three weeks

Night and fucking day I can't wait for my cut to be over so I can start lifting heavy again

>>42236678

Note: it was nearly all water weight, alcohol makes you bloated

>>42233444
>Carbs from vegetables will never get you in trouble with keto.

So I can and eat a bunch of veggies and not worry about it? I've been limiting it because I don't want to go over my net carbs. I love veggies.

>>42236765
Not him but you should be fine with veggies.

>>42228519
>everyone who doesn't agree with me is a quack because I say so

For carb cycling should I just have keto days and non keto days, while just keeping track of calories?

>>42229270
Because it takes 18 hours to make

>>42229548
woah, Gianna looks like THAT now?

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>>42230311
>avoid potatoes
but why

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>tfw just ate two slices of 9g net carb bread with almond butter

How fucked is my ketosis bros?

>>42225661
Supposedly okra water cures it. It's a fuckin vegetable squash looking thing that you put in water overnight and drinking the water cures diabetes.
https://youtu.be/9TlXOYpbKfI

>>42237878
You don't eat grains on keto retard

>>42228594
This is the same board that thinks Boogie is a lazy slob that eats mayo straight from the jar and that the pre-op diet for a weight loss surgery is so the operating table doesn't collapse. Just give it up, they won't learn.

>>42228686
>hard to bulk on keto

Just eat a shitton of meat.

>>42225661
>return the body to its natural diet

What can go wrong?

>>42225661
Not necessarily. High saturated and trans fat diets have been shown to cause diabetes. If the meat is lean and low in saturated fat, it probably wont hurt.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23354681

>>42227044

only actual worthwhile post for the OP topic

>>42230311
Why do these faggots have to bring race into something that literally applies to all human beings?

>>42229239
Will it undo the vaccines though?

>>42238289
Why not?

>>42239443
That meta study lumps together high fat and high protein, though. It even says that causes could be "saturated and trans fatty acids, dietary cholesterol, protein and amino acids, heme-iron, sodium, nitrites and nitrosamines, and advanced glycation end products".
I don't know how relevant it is for high fat low carb diets. We would need far more targeted studies for that. And I know that they are hard to find, since most of them focus on high meat consumption, which is discouraged on keto.

>>42225661
The only medical use it has is against epilepsy, which is the original use and maybe a few types of cancers but that's it. Otherwise it's a pretty shit diet. The "cures autism" thing in that pic is kinda funny since many keto folks here defend their diet with what can only be called peak autism.

>>42227080
why exactly?

>>42228692
I had depression for a few years, I was sick, couldn't even train, then as I got to exercise again it went away but not fully, I still had quite mood swings. Right now I'm on keto for a little bit more than one week, training calisthenics 5 times a week+some low intensity cardio-so far I've lost 3,5 kgs but still could get stronger aaand the best part is that I don't have any mood swings, I feel better, I look better. So I would absolutely recommend keto.

>>42240092
Cause it's fucking carbs

>>42225661
Fuuuuuuaaaaaahhh, check out my fuckin keto meal prep bitches. Each portion has 250g pork shoulder, 10g added pork fat, 50g cheese and it is fuckin delicious.
http://imgur.com/a/WJmtJ

>>42241721
I love meat and all but that pork looks like a cespool

>cures autism.

Is keto, dare I say, /ourdiet/ ?

>>42233444
I felt like I had to cut Brussel sprouts since with how many I eat I'd cross my net carb limit

>>42241281
What if its low carb and fits in macros

>>42242177
Just sterilize yourself

>>42241721
>t. perma-bulking "bearmode" """powerlifter""""

>>42225661
No, itll probably make it worse if you already have it but hey at least you're losing weight

>>42228585
This is pretty good
https://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/01/03/Keto-Diet-Food-List-What-to-Eat-and-Avoid

>>42225661
Can it cure diabetes? No

Can it treat diabetes? Yes

It may seem counterintuitive, but actually extremely low fat (like10% of calories or less), low protein, high carb diets have had more success at actually curing diabetes than low carb high fat diets.

I think it's to do with actually being able to restore sensitivity rather than just avoiding insulin spikes while remaining insulin resistant.

>>42242684

It seems to me keto is basically a form of fasting, or at least can be used that way.

Short term benefits, long term questionable.

>>42242684
How would constant insulin spikes restore resistance

Short answer no but I've noticed T2DM patients manage the condition a lot better with Low carb/Ketogenic diets.
Genuinely don't know why the NHS still advocates Low Calories - Highish Carb diets for the lifestyle management of T2DM.

>>42242776
>high carb = insulin spikes
Gosh.

>>42242802
Yes that's exactly right. Comparatively high when put next to keto staples like avocado and almonds. Glycemic indeces of 40ish such as in oatmeal are considered "low" by people. If your objective was to increase insulin sensitivity why not go with foods like almonds that are closer to the 10s in glycemic index? Makes more sense

>>42242841
Keto is literally just avoiding the symptons, it can't cure insulin resistence. It inherently gets better by losing weight but that's about it. If you look at what doctors around the world tried, high carb diets have worked very well against type 2.

>>42242776
What do you mean? As far as I understand it, it's not that insulin spikes "restore" insulin resistance, but that insulin resistance causes insulin spikes, as when you're insulin resistant it's more difficult to clear excess glucose from the blood.

Things is, dietary fat (as well as sedentary lifestyle) can lead to insulin resistance, so the more fat you eat the more insulin resistant you will become, the less carbs you can eat without an excessive insulin spike, as a generalisation.

But eating a low fat high carb diet, you can restore insulin sensitivity, so that you can deal with more dietary carbohydrate and clear excessive blood sugar more efficiently without big insulin spikes. As this actually restores insulin sensitivity, rather than just avoiding insulin spikes, such a diet can be said to cure diabetes (to the extent it works) rather than treating it.

Consider, it's not people living on starch, fruit and vegetables on their own who get fat and diabetic, but those who eat pastries, pizza, chips, burgers etc, as well as drinking soda WITH their meals, ie combining carbs and fat. Does the average fat person eat baked/boiled potatoes or chips?

I guess you gotta decide if you want to be a fat burner or a sugar burner, rather than ineffectively trying to do both when eating a diet high both in fat and refined carbohydrate.

>>42242899
Well you fail to explain how stimulating high insulin cures insulin resistance. And keto isn't "avoiding the symptoms". There's an insulin response whenever you eat anything, carbs or not

>>42242937
That makes more sense I guess. The lack of fiber from their shitty foods probably plays a big part in it. Also right on the high fat&carb not being a good combo

>>42242949
The key to restoring insulin sensitivity is high carb within caloric restriction. It will feel very bad (which is why many can't deal with it and try low carb or other "diets") but it will work. Your body can't just infinitely raise blood sugar + insulin, a small part of the sugar will get into the cells and that eventually restores the ability to burn sugar.

>>42242984
two factors added in

>some people have better lipid catabolism

and can consume MUCH more dietary fat without any reprecussions (probably linked to racial factors)

and

>sugar may hinder fat absorption into the cells, or some other fuckwad mystical way it fucks with fat

maybe both.

>>42242949
>There's an insulin response whenever you eat anything, carbs or not

I believe that's true of protein, but fat?

Anyway, I think the point is not to avoid the insulin spikes here, but to deal with them efficiently. Part of the reason insulin spikes so much with insulin resistance is that because you're resistant to it, you produce more of it, because you still need to clear the excess blood sugar.

With insulin sensitivity, even with higher carb intake, because you can efficiently clear that blood sugar, as well as use it for energy more effectively, rather than storing it as fat, the insulin spike will be lower.

>>42243035

A good article here, from someone pro-paleo/low carb too.

https://deniseminger.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/

>>42243035
Insulin is not the enemy many here seem to think. We can deal with high GI food very well. As the other anon said the problems are the sedentary lifestyle and overweight. If you're active and normal weight you can drink soda and be perfectly fine. Obviously it's not good but it won't really harm you.

Having DII myself I can give anecdotal evidence as follows: It helped me a lot to concentrate my carbs on one meal per day in the morning, i. e. mostly carbs the morning, mixed at lunch and protein at dinner

>>42242984
>The lack of fiber from their shitty foods probably plays a big part in it.

Agreed.

>Also right on the high fat&carb not being a good combo

True, but I still don't want to imply that mixing fat and carbs will always be terrible. But if you're sedentary, eat low fibre, low nutrient density (or poor nutrient balance), low quality food, and unsaturated vegetable oils along with high GI refined carbs, I'm pretty damn sure that'll lead to some metabolic problems.

>>42243077
I read most of her articles and they're interesting but I have no idea why she writes for authoritynutrition, a site that's so full of bullshit.

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>>42228635
I know a lot of people that assume keto means "eat all of the butter and cheese that I want 'cause it aint got no carbs" You have to stick with healthy fats and foods still for fucks sake.

I eat an Avocado a day and 6 Tbsp of raw coconut oil a day to make up my fat intake. Lean meats/salmon and a shit ton of vegetables make up the rest

It works perfectly fine for me, but it's obviously not for everyone.

I've noticed that I am more level headed, blood work has shown that my T levels increased and stayed that way(not by much, but anything helps), my skin cleared up, and I have more energy at the gym.

>>42243082
I agree. I think too many people demonise sugar or even carbs as a whole, but they only cause issues within certain contexts, and it's interesting that those contexts generally involve fat (either being fat or eating it, more likely both).

A lot of people demonise sugar/carbs, but the most consistent correlate of obesity and metabolic disease seems to be POLYUNSATURATED FATS.

Eating a lot of fat and oil as well as carbs seems like a good way to trick your body into thinking it's time to pack on fat to hibernate over winter, especially bad when the oils come from rancid fried foods rather than fresh nuts and seeds which still contain vitamin E.

And if you trick your body into going into winter-fat mode, you still need to let it fast and burn up that fat for spring-time-leanness.

Eating low fat high carb consistently is like eternal tropical summer.

Relevant video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dan8qtgQRi8

>>42243296
Another from the same channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APZCfmgzoS0

>>42243296
>>42243308
>show more
>But some people are still worried about adverse health effects considering this movement runs entirely against conventional health "wisdom." Our biology might just *prefer* ketones to glucose/carbohydrate.
>Our biology might just *prefer* ketones to glucose/carbohydrate.
Into the trash it goes. Ketosis is the last state your body enters when it's deprived of food. It's literally survival/conservation mode. A few days of controlled fasting is great, a lifestyle based on inducing ketosis is not.

>>42243348
"A few days of controlled fasting is great, a lifestyle based on inducing ketosis is not."

I agree, but it's still an interesting introduction to the topic.

"Prefer" is silly, but it still shows that ketosis can be beneficial rather than exclusively a stressor, and that it can be beneficial for more than just a few days.

I agree that it's harmful long term though.

I recommend the second video I posted more than the first, which focuses on fasting rather than a long term diet.