/fit/ cannot refute this argument for veganism

BASED gotta try this ASAP

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>>42109685
until I get a sample from Costco or until it's widely available you.... can GTFO bitch nigger vegan cuck

>>42109735
The beyond burger is available at whole foods and walmart in America.

>>42109751
don't have any nearby cuck boi

>>42109685
>GQ

BREAKING NEWS: The numales at some fashion magazine are vegans.

>>42109685
How does vegan behave in US?
Are they mostly germanic(white people )

Do they bother people and try to force them not to eat meat?

>>42109685

What the fuck is GQ?

>>42109851
The top men's fashion magazine in America.

>>42109685
>Best burger of the year
>2015
its 2017 fucktard

For loving animals so much, it's pretty weird to go deathly into trying to find recipes that taste just like it

>>42109875

Why?

>>42109685
A penis wielding human won woman of the year, and Lorde won best rock video. You're surprised about retardation in the United States why?

>>42109890
It's like saying you're not homophobic but love to suck dildos to masturbate

>>42109875
Vegans aren't against meat. They are against harming animals. Most vegans would eat meat if it was lab grown, which could be a possibility.

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>>42109902
>>42109903
MY FUCKING SIDES!

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>>42109685
>Find a flaw
It's made out of things that my food eats

>>42109912
Caring too much about animals shows a naive look on the nature of life

>>42109912
Except vegans ARE against meat because of its cancer causing effects

>>42109903

How?

>change to veganism
>try to imitate meat eaters food

Top kek
Why they keep doing this

>>42109936

*some

>>42109685
>GQ
>caring what a bunch of status obsessed numales who try to buy their looks thinks

Once again vegans make all nonmeateaters look like pussies
t. Vegetarian

>>42109976
>I don't like cock
>Stop eating cock
>But it's okay that I'm felating this fake dildo. It's not real bro

>>42109685
the diet soda of veganism

>>42109685
How is this an argument for veganism? The burger may or may not taste good. It may taste exceptionally good but that doesn't mean anything.

>Tastes better than real meat
If you say so.
>Does not cause heart disease and cancer like (the overconsumption of RED) meat

>Does not cause the needless suffering of animals
This is just emotions fueling emotions. Utterly meaningless.

All without even addressing dairy or any other of the many implications of a full vegan diet.

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omg i want to try! bet it's expensive though lol :(

>>42110045

>hey, I can enjoy food I like without supporting the suffering and death of billions of animals each year
>>lol why u do dat i dont get it make no sens

>>42110097
Daily reminder to report for ban evasion

>>42110103
Every body hurts. You're not a better person for refusing to eat animals

>>42110103
>anthromorphising animals

You're right, it makes no sense

>>42110059

So then that would be like saying you ARE homophobic but still suck on a dildo. In this situation it would be more like

>I'm gay and only like fucking straight, unwilling men
>instead of raping straight guys, I'll use a sex toy

>>42110045
capitalism at work. most people who turn vegan overnight are useful idiots with money

>>42109848
You're arguably the worst poster on this site.

>>42110126

I'm a better person than I would be if I did what you did.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=tvp+burger+recipe

>>42110126

>u cant judge me
>dont shame me for my diet choices

I love when /fit/ turns into tumblr

>>42110148
Now all you have to do is actually explain how that could be true and you might have an argument.

>>42110148
>muh Mickey Mouse morality

Lmao @ this brainlet and his concept of objective ethics

>>42109848
Not in US (Canuckistan) but there doesn't seem to be any tendency towards white being vegan proportionally. Of course there are more whites who are vegan, but there are more whites period. I would say that non-white urbanites are even more likely to be vegan, as many of them already had a diet that wasn't quite as heavy in meat and at least here it's a very fashionable thing to do in very effete circles.

>>42110179

Not choosing to torture and kill animals is more ethical than choosing to torture and kill animals.

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>>42109685
the first chick said it tasted very similar to "meat", though abstaining herself...why would i take the opinion of a vegetarian? they're lesser humans

>>42109685
>vegans
>making food look and taste like meat

what is the fucking point? These people are just lying to themselves. They may as well go out and stick cucumbers up their ass and into their mouths and say they aren't gay because its not the real thing.

>>42109826
>doesn't get to enjoy the things other people enjoy
>has to sit and watch other people enjoy things
>calls somebody else a cuck
Uh, anon...

>>42109685
congrats, one guy decided that a fake burger is the best burger of the year.

here's the deal, I try meat substitutes, mostly because they tend to be pretty high in protein for their caloric content. I have yet to have a substitute meat product that was actually tastier than it's meat counterpart. I'm okay with tofu being tofu and tempeh being tempeh and all other veg protein products being protein products (except seitan, because that shit doesn't taste good no matter what you do to it) and not trying to imitate meat. hell tofu skin in hotpot is fucking delicious. but it DOESN'T COMPARE TO MEAT IN A RECIPE MEANT FOR MEAT. that shit tastes like fucking disappointment.

>>42110228
Exactly.
If you abstain from meat you shouldnt try to emulate the thing

its retarded

>>42110210
>>42110173
Says the judger. If you weren't a baby , you would go on about your day
Retarded faggot

>>42110248
nothing wrong with veggie burgers. they're pretty good. BOCA burgers are my shit

>>42110248
in all honesty, i too have tried meat substitutes. At first glance they look like dog food and they taste horrible.
Not hating on vegetarian food since i eat a lot of it. But if i want to have meat, id rather go for the real thing

>>42110210
Following your own arbitrary definition of ethics does not make you a "better person" than me.

>>42109685
>Best burger of the year
>Best movie of the year
>Best doctor in the country
>Best pizza on the east coast

There is no way advertisement would lie to us

>>42109751
>beyond burger
not the same thing that's being advertised in that video. that'd be impossible burger. still not available.

>>42109685
Is that the Impossible Burger? The one from Umami Burger? Listen up, you vegan fucks.

I took my vegetarian girlfriend to Umami Burger a couple weeks ago because she wouldn't shut up about this "bleeding burger" she'd seen advertised that was apparently better than real meat.

First off, the Impossible Burger is not available to pickup so we had to eat there. Fine. Secondly, her meal cost $16 for a small-as-fuck burger and didn't even come with fries. I don't eat fries, but still, when I pay $16 for a burger I expect some motherfucking fries.

I got a real burger, which was small and overpriced, but honestly pretty good. Then my girlfriend let me try a couple bites of hers, so I got a side-by-side comparison. Her burger tasted like shit. Probably pretty good as far as veggie burgers are concerned, but bland and unappetizing compared to real meat.

In short, fuck the Impossible Burger, fuck bougie hipster LA restaurants, and fuck the vegan shills on /fit/.

>>42110235

That dumb analogy only makes sense if the person stopped eating meat because they don't like the taste of meat. Those aren't the people eating soy burgers.

>>42110210
You have to justify why animals are worth our concern beyond our own benefit. If you cannot do this you have no foundation to build the argument that harming/killing/torturing them is wrong.

>>42110294

Your subjective morals: do whatever I want and fuck everyone else

>>42110312
Ask your gf why she wants to try something that is supposed to look and taste like real meat when she is supposed to not want it.

>>42110323
its only dumb if your little brain can't understand it. Let me dumb it down for you

Why lie to yourself?

>>42110345
Not all meat eaters are bad. Same goes for vegans. Both sides have stupid edgy faggots, in fact most of both sides are retarded.

>>42110279
but they don't actually have the taste or texture or beef. or turkey. or bison. or ostrich. or literally any meat product. but if that's what you order and at least you expect it then that's fine. hell I've eaten bean burgers before and been pretty happy with them, mostly because I didn't expect them to taste like a hamburger.

it's more the whole "it tastes just like beef!" thing that bugs me. it doesn't and that's fine, stop trying to shill it as the same when it's not.

>>42110337
Well, im all for eating meat but i dont want to see animals get tortured. I dont mind them getting killed though.

>>42110345
No, I can extend my moral system to all of humanity in a way that is mutually beneficial for all without infringing on eachothers' rights. Also that isn't what I asked. What is your justification for your moral system beyond missplaced empathy or anthropomorphism?

>>42110323
>i have problems with beer and alcohol

i dont try to emulate beer drinking beer without alcohol
i just abstain

>>42110363

Where's the lie?

>I like the taste of meat but I don't want to support a cruel industry
>Oh, I can eat something that tastes like meat and not support the cruel industry? I'll do that then
>HEHEHHE DATS LIKE NOT BEING GAY BUT STILL SUCKING DICKS VEGANS BTFO

Why does it even offend you?

>>42109848
You just described every vegan I've met

>>42110380
>>42110380
It's all or nothing. You cannot be okay with consuming dairy, eating meat, or simply 'humanely' killing animals without also being content with their torture and abuse in every other way imaginable. This sentiment is just a very naive view where people, and granted, the majority, refuse to acknowledge the suffering animals go through to provide us with these things. You must either be against this suffering as a whole, finding it 'ethically' wrong or entirely okay with it. Anything else is just inconcisstency and shallow thinking.

>>42110433
I don't care about an animals ultimate fate. Not wanting to torture it through its life is not the same thing. It's the nature of life for things to die and hurt, sparing animals will not make me a better person

>>42110129
What? This makes no sense

>>42110480

If you're okay with needless killing, why is needless torture not okay?

>>42110493
>needless killing
dude, you know if you kill an animal, you can get, like, meat from it. And then, like, make it in to a delicious meal. How is that needless.
I'd say it is needfull.

>>42110390

I have friends who started drinking La Croix as a partial beer replacement because it has a similar taste that they enjoy. I'm not going to say WHY DON'T YOU JUST DRINK BEER ALL DAY?!

>>42110493
Would you rather be tortured to death or just get shot in the head.

>>42110493
Needless how? It's feeding me, I'm deriving pleasure and nutrients. As long as I don't go overboard on saturated fats and am not a retard eating more than 30% of my macros from fat and I'm doing cardio, I'll be fine

>You don't NEED meat
You don't need a lot of things.

>>42110480
So do you consider ending an animals life quantifiably less than inducing some chemical reactions in that animal?

>>42110523

>how is that needless

Because you don't need to do it. You have other foods you can eat. You WANT to do it because it tastes good. Somebody may WANT to torture animals for their own fucked up reasons. Tell me how needless torture is bad when you accept needless killing.

>>42109685
If there's no meat, it's not a burger.

>>42110538

Neither, I'd rather live

>>42109685
>GQ
>not numale faggots

>>42110544

>it's not needless because I like it

You could kill and eat your neighbor and make the same argument. You have other options.

>>42110554
Torture and killing are different. Cucks like you act they're the same. Would you rather be tortured or killed? If they're the same it doesn't matter nigger

>>42110570
Except my neighbor isn't a wild animal. And that is murder.

>>42110574

>Torture and killing are different.

Again, explain why needless torture is bad while needless killing is fine. "Cuck" is not a valid answer.

>Would you rather be tortured or killed?

No

>>42109685
>Best burger isn't an In N Out.
Opinion easily discarded.

>>42109751
>whole foods
Christ

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>eating almost 2lb of meat per day
>tfw when i cant care less for deaths or animal torture

its a wild world

>>42110574
I would rather be tortured. They aren't the same as in an animal should be indifferent to either. They are the same in the regard that they are both meaningless when it comes to animals.

>>42110583

But you NEED to do it, right? You gotta do it bro, you gotta chop up Ms. Butterstein and eat her. That's how you get her meat, it's a necessity. Right?

>>42110618
No one is eating any humans lol

>>42110554
>Somebody may WANT to torture animals for their own fucked up reasons
well, to be fair. If said person owns that animal and doesn't advertise it for all world to see, then what is the problem here?
We prosecute people who torture animals not because we love animals, but because they are a threat to our society.

>>42110667

Are you the same guy who said before that torturing animals wasn't okay?

>>42110337
>you have to justify why harming, killing, or torturing other humans is wrong.
If you're not baiting, then I don't know what to tell you.

>>42110493
why is the guillotine more ethical than chopping off someone's head with an axe? btw takes several swings of the axe to remove the head.

>>42110337

Because they're sentient creatures like us, and if I was in their shoes I would want the same consideration. I would say that only showing decency to those that can benefit you is also unethical.

>>42110698
Are you asking me to do that or implying that I said that? Because I can if you are. Out of my own self interest I can easily justify a respect for each other as human beings. That is an extremely solid base for morality.

Now the challenge remains. Try and extend that or come up with any justification yourself for respecting animals.

>>42110713

Will you answer the question?

>>42110724
>Implying animals wear shoes

s h I g g y

>>42110433
Jesus Christ you dense fucker. Humans are adapted to eat meat, there is nothing wrong with it. That's why I support hunting. Factory farming, the source of the majority of meat in the US, is designed to maximize profit. You understand that an animal living its life and then all of a sudden *bam* is different from spending its whole life in a 5x3 cage surrounded by its own stinking shit, don't you? Nothing fucking all-or-nothing about it. One necessitates suffering in a way the other does not.

>>42110685
no, I only made two posts in thes chain.
Also, what if the taste of meat is the only thing that stops me from taking my life and/or going on a homicidal rampage, can I have the meat then please?

>>42110724
They aren't sentient creatures like us. We are the only sentient creatures like us. You can scream unethical at the top of your lungs at that statement but it is pointless. Every single system of society is designed to benefit us all mutually.

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>>42109685

be-GONE foul gains sucker, take your accursed kale and pea protein with you

>>42110588
Killing is *more* necessary than torture if we are to obtain food from the animal. Nice work on accepting the corporate Jew's arguments on confined enclosure for profit maximization, by the way.

>>42110766

> what if the taste of meat is the only thing that stops me from taking my life and/or going on a homicidal rampage

Sometimes I think that's not far off after reading these threads and how rabidly some people defend eating meat. It's got to be some heavy addiction.

>>42110742
No, I don't understand that because it isn't true. Instead of claiming it is and calling me a 'dense fucker' how about you actually try and explain the significant difference. Do you really believe that an animal cares if it's suffering was 'necessary' for my benefit or not? Do you think that a zebra cares whether it is being killed by a lion to be eaten or killed by a human for game?

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>vegan's answer to meat tasting so damn good is to make a soy product that tastes exactly like meat
>meat is considered the inferior product because of this

Really activates my almonds.

>>42110742

>adapted to eat meat
>arteries fill with waxy plaque until heart explodes

>>42110698
> I don't know what to tell you
Because that guy is right and you don't have an argument here.

>>42110729
First explain why morality is necessary, because it seems that you accept it without precedent. For example, respect of other humans is necessary because of morality, but why be moral? If you accept morality as constant and necessary, then inducing suffering of must be counter to that, since inducing suffering of humans is immoral.

You can not create a system of morality that encourages suffering. Doing so leads to cognitive dissonance, which is why people prefer not to know the true source of their food. If they did, they would choose cruelty-free 100% of the time if all else was equal.

>>42110859
>arteries fill with waxy plaque until heart explodes
Are you implying that is something other than a rare occurrence in active non-obese people?

>>42110797
well at least we are not actively trying to enforce needless suffering of humans by guilting them into not eating meat.
Wait, I know! You should try eating meat, maybe then your sociopathic behaviour will stop!

>>42110824
Killing with a high-powered rifle =/= raising it for years in a cage surrounded by its own waste. In one scenario, the animal is free to roam around and behave as it does in nature. In the other, the animal displays severe mental problems, just as a person would during extended imprisonment. The studies have been done, and the evidence is there on the negative effects of factory farming. That is why you are being dense, because it is so painfully obvious that I can't believe I have to explain this to you.

Again, hunting induces little to no suffering, factory farming induces a whole lifetime of it.

>>42110892
Yes. Atherosclerosis is sadly very common , even in people hunter gather groups like the Masai or Eskimo who eat large amounts of meat.

Wolves and carnivores have metabolically adapted to digest animal fat. Humans haven't , this is why it clogs our arteries. (The same happens if you feed animal fat to rabbits or other herbivores).

>>42110348
Ask yourself where your critical thinking has gone to.

>>42110869
>morality is necessary
It is the basis for society

>You can not create a system of morality that encourages suffering. Doing so leads to cognitive dissonance, which is why people prefer not to know the true source of their food. If they did, they would choose cruelty-free 100% of the time if all else was equal.

What a crock of horseshit. Did you forget the part where humans have been hunting and killing their own food except for the last 100-200 years or so?

Butchering tools predate Homo Sapiens.

>>42110898

>needless suffering of humans by guilting them into not eating meat.

Poor you. You need a safe space from the mean vegans.

>>42110869
Morality is a tool to be used for humanity's benefit. I don't particularly like using the word "necessary" as it implies need and really depending on your philosophical standpoint that could create some issues but it is certainly something that is beneficial and favourable for us.

I do not accept it without precedent. I'm being credible here and not lazy when I'm assuming that I don't have to illustrate the benefits humans incur out of a system that encourages respect for one another's rights.

>If you accept morality as constant and necessary, then inducing suffering of must be counter to that.
This is an incorrect conclusion. My system of morality may only pertain to humans. I wouldn't say that my system 'encourages' suffering, I would rather say that it excuses it. Which is more of a philosophical difference rather than a practical one sure, but just to be clear.

>>42110859
We can digest meat with little to no trouble. Our ancestors grew large crania and developed longer gestation periods because of the availability of meat. They were also extremely active, walking upwards of 15 miles a day. Yes, we are adapted to eat meat, but not in the way we do now.

>>42109858
A magazine for cucks and faggots

>>42110956
You can feed rabbits meat and they can digest it too. Animal fats just clog their artiers.

Humans beings are primarily herbivorous and relied on fruits and starchy vegetables for energy historically.
we don't have teh same metabolic adaptations meat eating carnivores/omnivores do.

>>42110931
So why must we consider an animals suffering as important? Why does it matter? Why do a few chemical reactions have to have such a tremendous impact on us? I understand that I myself would of course choose a life of freedom with a sudden end than a life in captivity and you yourself would also but why should I care about an animals preference?

>>42110932
That it happens is irrelevant.

Not until it causes disease is it relevant. And that largely only happens with fat people that are not active. And smoke or are black if you want to be technical.

>>42110337
So you don't mind if I beat dogs before boiling them alive? Better flavor bro!

>>42110940
Again, hunting (or pasture raised) =/= factory farming. I have nothing against eating meat, I have a whole lot against the way most of it is produced. Hunting is cruelty-free in a way factory farming can never be.

Also, the "basis for society" argument is piss-poor because morality is relative to the needs of people. We live in a society where we have access to all our nutritional needs even without meat. In fact, most of the people on Earth eat meat rarely if at all. They have also created different societies. Until you can provide a universal moral truth, then you have no basis to assert that inducing human suffering is fundamentally different from inducing animal suffering.

>>42110989
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2053090/Atherosclerosis-Young-adults-picture-health-risk-clogged-arteries.html

>>42110993
For the sake of the discussion I'd ask that you would avoid such appeals to emotion as many people have a hard time seeing through the emotion and maintaining an objective view but yes. Personally I would find it terrible but I don't think it is reasonable to do so. It is an unfortunate condition of being human that we are unable to act purely on reason and are dictated heavily by instincts but again, arguing from a position of how we SHOULD act rather than how we DO act, I and the rest of humanity should not care.

>>42110376
>but they don't actually have the taste or texture or beef. or turkey. or bison. or ostrich. or literally any meat product.
They LITERALLY don't have LITERALLY the same taste and texture as LITERALLY an ingredient it doesn't have. But they're mostly the same. If your mommy made you soy flour burritos wouldn't know or cry about it until she told you the next day that you ate phytoestrogen filled soy.

>>42110951
Finally somebody in this thread not talking in circles. Our system absolutely encourages suffering, given that certain facets of our society actively profit from it. Animal agriculture is one of them, since there is minimal difference in quality of the meat if raised in resource-minimizing conditions rather than with all that is necessary to encourage animal welfare.

>>42110945
Nah, just pointing out your logical fallacies.
At your best, you vegans only produce the feeling of pity from me. You see, I am a dreamer, I look at human race and I see greatness, potential. So whenever I see people making a choise to indulge their weakness I get a little sad.
Then again if it weren't for veganism, you'd take some other retarded ass backwards cause, like anti-gmo shit or anti-vaccination, it's just the way you are. People like you just have to choose to be pathetic.

Please tell me what this has to do with fitness.

>>42110980
Humans walk upright and can do so for very long distances because our ancestors practiced "hunting via attrition" where they just walked after the mammoth or whatever until it collapsed. They would do this for hours if not days. That isn't really my point, my point is that we eat meat too frequently and this causes health problems in ourselves, as well as creates the demand which necessitates factory farming in the first place.

>>42110980
Completely false.

Humans didn't conquer the world including climates which have no vegetation 5months a year, eating vegetables.

I am a vegetarian but honestly, magazines like that are more interested in appealing to their core audience of trendy SJWs than they are investigating burgers with objectivity of flavor in mind. I doubt this burger is the best, bit it's the burger their customers want to see rated #1.

>>42110981
Because it is the compassionate thing to do. Another anon mentioned morality, which I agree with, but to reduce the suffering of others to "chemical reactions" is wrong in my view since we could likewise reduce the suffering of other people to such vague and meaningless terms. Animal or not has nothing to do with it, since both humans and animals are conscious living beings.
When you see an animal suffering because of the greed of people, you feel bad. Maybe that's chemical reactions as well, but I believe that a society that values the welfare of animals will ultimately be better because they do not trivialize suffering be it human or animal.

>>42110773
For all you know this guy does marathons and consumes more protein than you.

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>>42111057

>>42111099
My solution: you can never trust the grocery store. Get to know local farmers and see how they raise their animals. If you would not mind trading places with a cow, chicken, or pig raised by them, then buy from them. If you would rather die than live like that, then support somebody else - or just hunt it yourself.

>>42111074

>climates which have no vegetation 5months a year

What do the animals eat?

>>42111099
I understand that but I think extending compassion to animals is wrong. I can't see why we should do it.

>to reduce the suffering of others to "chemical reactions" is wrong in my view since we could likewise reduce the suffering of other people to such vague and meaningless terms
Reducing the suffering of other humans has legitimate, justifiable benefits for us. It makes sense.

I'm not trying to be condescending here but you keep throwing up all these definitions like "conscious living beings" and "compassionate thing to do" without explaining the importance of any of them.

Suffering is trivial. It is, in reality, nothing more than negative stimuli.

>>42111096
>I doubt this burger is the best,
It seems like an impressive piece of technology. If it's really a juicy burger that nobody could tell isn't meat just by chewing on it then fuck you got no right to bitch about it being hailed as the best in some 2017 burger list. I know it's fun to be bitter about vegans but come on look at this objectively.

>>42111122
>What do the animals eat?

How about other animals, genius?

>>42111136
>Suffering is trivial. It is, in reality, nothing more than negative stimuli.
Why can't you say the same about humans, save that it provides "benefits"? Even if it does not provide benefits, it is important to recognize the importance of compassion. Example, you run a prison and you make cash on the side for every appliance your inmates produce. Why is this wrong if they are generating a net benefit for you? They're the scum of the earth, it doesn't matter if they gain nothing from it since they're in there for life? Similarly, a system of morality based on treating all life with respect is necessary because it discourages actions such as this without exception. "All life" here includes both human and animal, regardless of the benefit we can reap from their exploitation, and this ultimately forms the basis of a better society than one where compassion is conditional.

>>42111161

They all eat each other?

>>42111189
I can't. It's benefit to us is really the only difference, however it is enough to have such a distinction between the way we treat animals and humans. You're providing examples that rely off of empathy for one another. Which again, I fully support.

Extending compassion to all life is of course inclusive to humans however there is no reason to extend it that far when it doing so arguable has negatives for us. You're still throwing up a lot of statements like "better society" without actually proving it to be true. "Conditional compassion" is a meaningless thing to say. Your compassion is as conditional as mine, life is your condition and humans are mine. You have to justify it on it's on merits.

>>42111206
The bears eat seals
The seals eat fish
The fish eat smaller fish
Smaller fish eat plankton

So yes, aside from the bottom of the food chain they all eat each other. This is how a food chain works.

>>42109848
Most vegans I know in real life don't really bring it up or try to push it on anyone else. The ones online, especially on this site, are annoying as fuck and are not typical.

>>42111138
It's probably just marketing to upsell this new fake meat

>>42111352
Critics and journalists are brainless shills 99 times out of 100 yeah. And I know this thread is just an excuse to have console warring. Still though I reckon this "vegan bleeding burger" is fundamentally more impressive than some normal burger that just has a couple cuuhrazy weird condiments.

>>42111031
So you don't mind torturing and killing animals for your own mouth pleasure?

>>42111639
I specifically just responded with yes in the comment you replied to but just to entertain another absurd appeal to emotion by an idiot who has no interest in honest, productive discussion yes, yes I would. Save your shock and horror for some one who cares.

>>42109912
If it was grown in a lab and didn't cause cancer and heart disease, totally

>>42111666
ok, just wanted to make sure.

Emotions aside, how can you justify needlessly ending the life of another sentient being? Name a trait present in animals, which if present in humans, would justify the treatment proposed by omnivores if applied to a human.

>>42110045
>>42110059
>/fit/'s best attempt at an argument against veganism

>>42111712
If you want to play "name the trait" us and them is enough. I care about me and my own out of self interest. "Needlessly" is a completely hollow word. Every action is "needless" beyond breathing air, drinking water and consuming the bare minimum of nutrients vital to survival and even that can change depending on your interpretation. And of course by dismissing their suffering I can justify it through the obvious benefits.

>>42111732
And what are you, /fit/'s best example of a vegan? Picking the absolute lowest hanging fruit to argue against so you can have a say?

>>42111765
Us vs them? Ok then, fuck niggers. Round em all up and execute them because we can. Let's throw all the Muslims in there as well.

>>42111849
There are two paths this argument can go down and I'm not fully sure which one I support more at this point.

Either I be more specific and play your game of name that trait and bring up social contracts, the reciprocation of social behaviors etc

Or I argue for the more nihilistic view and say sure why not, if you had a reason to do so and it was out of self interest go for it, up until the point where it would in fact cause harm to myself such as in the case of a war with other humans etc and instead define the important characteristic of a being that we should respect as having the power to harm me.

Again I'm not certain which path I would argue for. However I can reconcile all my questions about the first argument I would probably favor it as I try to avoid nihilistic views.

However, if I can...*

>>42109912
Not true. I was raw vegan for a while but still get a kick out of shooting animals. Most vegans do it for the health benefits.

>>42109685
I think they're just saying that particular burger was really good.

>>42111922
Just so you can eat a certain type of food that's ultimately unhealthy for you...

You omnivores are ridiculous.

>>42109685
I just happen to like eating meat, so I would probably just continue that habit as long as I continue to eat for a combination of pleasure and to continue existing?

>>42111978
Health is something we often trade for many pleasures in varying degrees. The only important thing to do is to draw a line between how much health you're willing to sacrifice for how much pleasure you want to gain, after all it is ultimate a pleasure vs pleasure trade so saying it is "ultimately unhealthy" is pointless. Driving cars instead of riding bikes is "ultimately unhealthy".

You herbivores are childish, shallow minded and care about the way certain words make you feel rather than facts? Let's not waste time throwing around insults.

>>42111978
Hell even if I didn't prefer eating meat over veganism I would still like to know the truth.

>>42112023
Right, so I'll occasionally drink alcohol because I enjoy. I don't make it a habit, though.

Facts are on the side of vegans, unfortunately. All you're doing is making pathetic attempts to justify a few seconds of mouth pleasure. It's absolutely insane.

>>42112042
I preferred eating meat until I went vegan. I'm not even tempted to eat animal products anymore. It's so god damn easy being vegan that it's crazy to me the lengths people go to to try and justify this lifestyle. I spent the vast majority of my life eating meat. Veganism is better in every way. You're just too much of a pussy to change your lifestyle.

I went vegan this week and now I have constant and horrendous farts. What do I do /fit/?

>>42112065
Your body is adjusting to the high amounts of fiber you're now taking in.

>>42112047
And I'll occasionally eat meat because I enjoy it and not clog my arteries with 5 hotdogs a day? What kind of silly argument was that? The problem remains, you sacrificed some health for some pleasure. As do I. All these other arguments around veganism like "health" etc are completely irrelevant. The only argument that matters is whether it is morally permissible to treat animals the way we do.

What facts are on the side of the vegans? If you think my 'attempts' to justify my actions are pathetic then dispute them. Stop making claims without reinforcing them.

>>42109685
Here's an argument: I don't give a shit about dumbass animals. Their meat is cheap and tasty. Also, I've never heard of a meat-eater who wanted meat that tasted like veggies. Vegans don't want to admit their food tastes like shit but it does.

>>42112081

But it will get better?

>>42112085
> The only argument that matters is whether it is morally permissible to treat animals the way we do.

It isn't... Again, you sound like a fucking drug addict. Too much of a pussy to live a clearly more ethical lifestyle.

>All these other arguments around veganism like "health" etc are completely irrelevant

They aren't irrelevant at all.

>What facts are on the side of the vegans?

Environmental and health facts

>>42112063
What are you some kind of cheap salesperson?

>I preferred eating meat until I went vegan.
Okay, if you say so.

>I'm not even tempted to eat animal products anymore.
Okay, if you say so.

>It's so god damn easy being vegan that it's crazy to me the lengths people go to to try and justify this lifestyle.
It isn't 'easier' to go vegan. The dairy and meat industries today exist because they are convenient and extremely few people actually go deep enough into these arguments to actually justify it. As far as the majority of the population goes they would rather ignore the discussion all together and continue living their lives oblivious to the suffering of animals that I'm sure they would all say they care about. But regardless, "this is complicated and I don't want to think about it :(" doesn't actually dispute these "lengths" people will go to.

>Veganism is better in every way.
Entirely debatable.

>You're just too much of a pussy to change your lifestyle.
Do you take cold showers? Do you ride your bike everywhere? Do you carry a magnifying glass to avoid stepping on ants? We all chase convenience. It's something that has been ingrained on us by evolution itself over thousands of years.

>>42112129
No, you're the fucking pussy. You keep making all these statements like "clearly more ethical lifestyle" but you refuse to actually explain them as you're afraid that maybe morality and ethics are more complicated than "but i feel bad :(".

>>42112153
Not killing > Killing

Are you being autistic or something?

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>>42112065
enjoy them

>>42112181
>Not killing > Killing

That is not always true.

>>42112181
I like how you just implied something absolutely fucking stupid and asked if I was autistic for disagreeing with it.

Do you think all killing is just objectively unethical? Perhaps all murder?

Save your fucking insults and stupidly naive opinions.

>>42112201
Not killing animals > unnecessarily killing them

You're justifying needless suffering and death for 5 seconds of mouth pleasure. You're a weak pussy.

>>42112224
Here we fucking go again with the "needless" and "unnecessarily". Okay, lets play your stupid game. Why do you "needlessly" and "unnecessarily" step on ants?

and no again, you're still the fucking coward refusing to think about these things beyond the absolute most surface level feeling. I don't eat meat because it tastes good. I consume animal products because maintaining my weight with my current lifestyle without them would be very difficult.

>>42109912
so vegans don't drive cars or use any modern devices or anything made in factory? cool

>>42110103
I doubt I could eat more than 3 cows a year, anon, that's like no more 300animals in a liftetime.

>>42112249
If I see a bunch of ants I won't step on them. I'm not going to constantly look down and make sure I'm not killing one or two, though.

Not eating more is a more ethical lifestyle than eating meat. How is this not true?

>>42112224
So you're a pussy for not going out of your way to avoid stepping on ants? Or do you some how not extend your morals to some animals and if that is case I get to play this game now, name the trait that deserves respect that only some animals have and others do not.

>>42112265
>If I see a bunch of ants I won't step on them. I'm not going to constantly look down and make sure I'm not killing one or two, though.
Then I have you.

You yourself trade life for your own convenience now get the fuck off your high horse you pathetic little faggot lmfao.

>>42112266
It's not practical to constantly be on the lookout for ants. This is a typical appeal to futility fallacy. Choosing to not eat meat and cause the suffering and death of hundreds of billions of animals is easy.

>>42112275
I mitigate more suffering and death than you.

>>42112086
>I don't give a shit about dumbass animals
nothing vegans can do then, you're an asshole with omega tier behaviour which is torture and kill the powerless who never done harm to you whatsoever

>>42112282
>I mitigate more suffering and death than you.
Except that may not be true.

>It's not practical to constantly be on the lookout for ants.
It's not practical for me to avoid eating all meat on my budget and lifestyle. Does that all of a sudden make it ethical and morally permissible? These rules you're trying to follow seem rather shaky.

What happened to your definite principles of harming animals is bad? Now it's a matter of how convenient it is to do so? How much convenience is a life worth to you? I hope at the very least you'll refrain from bringing up "needlessly" in future discussions.

>>42112282
>I mitigate more suffering and death than you
So following that logic(vegan logic), if you're a paramedic, or a doctor, or a firefighter, you're better than vegans even if you eat meat?

>>42112427
Assuming everything else is equal, I cause less suffering and death by not eating animals.

>>42112405
Again, yet another appeal to futility fallacy.

>You can't end the suffering and death of all life therefore it's ethically ok for me to eat meat

>>42112516
I think you should be more careful in how to apply that term. I'm calling you a hypocrite. Not arguing that saving any life is pointless. I have my own arguments for why that is the case but none of them stem from not being able to save them all.

I'm trying to point out to you that you are by no means a saint and your ethics are naive and arbitrary. You trade life for convenience. So do the rest of us. This has nothing to do with futility. That is just a simple truth that is in contrast to your beliefs.

>>42112558
Yeah, I probably end up stepping on lots of insects. That doesn't refute veganism.

>>42112558
not the anon you replied to but,
if we want to live we have to accept the fact that we will harm somebody else even for stuff like road,city,housing etc
doesn't mean we have to be retarded and maximizing the amount of suffering we generate

>>42112579
Yes, veganism as a whole has many elements that need to be addressed but if you're happy to drop the "I'm a better person than you" even though you are the same as the rest of us then hey, we've made progress.

>>42109875
Most people admit that they like the taste of meat

>>42110603
>>42110603
are you a powerlifter or an american?

>>42112589
We are by no means maximizing it. 7 billion human beings profit off of the animals. We rarely go beyond what is practical to acquire these benefits. It is a question of convenience if you value animal life at all and drawing the line here or there is all that is left to do.

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>>42109685
>/fit/ cannot refute this argument for veganism
Refute this surgeon eating 4 pounds of meat a day with no plants whatsoever. He holds 2 world records.

>>42112623
Hundreds of billions of animals die each year. It sure is close to maximizing.

>>42112700
Refute the man that has smoked 2 packs a day for 40 years!

>>42110574
Do you even know how they treat animals in factories?

>>42109685
Where can one acquire HEME?
I'd like to add it to my morning coffee. Preferably in front of my co workers

>>42112744
If such a smoker exists I guarantee he doesn't thrive. Shawn is an athlete.

>>42112779
I just finished working with one in China. 60 year old British guy that has been chain smoking for 40 years, 16 of those years were smoking the worst of the worst Chinese cigarettes.

>>42112792
He's slim and fit by the way. The 50 year old overweight meat eater had a stroke a few months back and had to be shipped back to the US.

>>42112775
your mom's period?
>>42112792
let me guess, he's lean and doesn't eat a lot of meat?

>>42112811
>let me guess, he's lean and doesn't eat a lot of meat?

yep, tall and slim. Eats mostly rice and veggies.

>>42112809
>He's slim
Ok?
>and fit by the way.
Ok prove it

>>42112809
>>42112817
exactly!
daily reminder, that DNA mutation from cigs don't necessarily develop into full blown lung cancer if you don't pair it with igf-1 from meat
lots of old chain smoker, they're always lean and consume very little amount of meat

>>42112835
this makes meat and animal products more dangerous than cigs

>>42112828
He's a 60 year old slim guy that walked faster than most people. I'm not sure how you want me to prove this...

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>>42112811
my moms like 70. She hasn't had a period in like 30 years. It happens to women, you'd know this fatass if you ever left the basement.
So i need an alternate source...

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>>42109685
BE GONE GAINS GOBLIN

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>>42112876

>>42112876
>>42112913
are you a kid having fun trolling for the first time on the internet?

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>>42112913

>>42112920
Rip leafbro

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>>42112918

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>>42112939

>>42109685
YOU GUYS TAKE THE BAIT EVERY FUCKING TIME
JESUS JUST LET THESE THREADS DIE

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>>42112876
>>42112913
>>42112920

>>42109751
>beyond burger
Me and my roommate tried this on a whim. It was fucking awful don't fall for it. It gave is stomach aches and it tastes fucking disgusting.

>>42113083
Great, then don't buy it. Cook some beans, rice, and veggies instead

>>42113100
>beans
indigestion, insulin spike
>rice
arsenic, insulin spike

Healthy

>>42113136
You're actually retarded.

>>42113150
And you are a weak ass vegan bitch

>>42109685
>needless suffering of animals
bolt to the head results in zero suffering.

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>>42113136

>"insulin spike" from beans

>>42109685
you said it yourself
REAL burger

>>42109912
So vegans should optimally kill themselves because every single action you do involving living a normal human life involves hurting living things?

>>42109685
does it have a complete amino acid profile like every piece of meat has?

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>>42113136
>Beans spike insulin
You ketofags are fucking amazing, amazingly fucking stupid that is
>What are slow carbonhydrates?
You have to unironically be fucking retarded to think all carbs act in a similar way to pure sugar.

>>42109685
>>Tastes better than real meat

Bullshit.

>>42113100

Im trying for keto.

>>42109685
>>>/ck/

>>42109902
>A penis wielding human won woman of the year
>men are better than women even at being women
that at least makes sense desu

So... if I wanted to check out a vegan based diet next month. What would I eat exactly if I want to go full vegan and train?