Redpill me on dietary cholesterol

http://www.thestrengthagenda.com/2013/11/23/the-incredible-egg/

>>42100036
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc1XsO3mxX8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaIpaGSESO0

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>>42100108
>VEGANMEME

>>42100036

>The 3 Cs – Carnitine, Choline, and Cholesterol

All 3 of which are associated with either heart disease or cancer

>>42100135
>carnitine
>cancer
Source

>>42100036
I unironically think a couple eggs for breakfast is healthy because joe rogan does too, and he hangs out with doctors occasionally. i know its not smart to literally base your diet on what DUDE WEED LMAO the person says but whatever. i do cardio. if i die at 60 instead of 80 those creamy yolks on my toast and breakfast sandwiches will have been worth it.

>>42100135
Everything is associated with everything, we are all connected man

>>42100141

Don't know about cancer, but heart disease

http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v19/n5/full/nm.3145.html

When you eat carnitine, bacteria in your gut metabolize it into a compound called trimethylamine, which goes through your liver and becomes trimethylamine oxide (TMAO), which damages arteries. Same reason why red meat is particular bad.

>>42100143
>joe rogan
Ah yes that bloated "dude everything's crazy maaaan" drug addict with red skin who eats 6 eggs and moose liver in a pool of O N N I T krill oil.

>>42100135
>associated
Provide a causal model and clinical trials, or shut up about those misused studies.

>go get bloodwork done
>anon are you on a cheeseburger diet? your cholesterol is pretty high
>oh shit
>start exercising and eating cleaner
>including 4-6 eggs a day
>get bloodwork done after a year
>normal cholesterol levels

Obvi this is anecdotal, n=1, etcetc

>>42100189

See >>42100175

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>>42100175

Choline also does this

>>42100135
>every cell in the human body contains cholesterol
>so it can't possibly be healthy, it's probably gonna give you cancer

>>42100211
Without choline, your liver won't function.

>>42100187
That's O-N-N-I-T, use promo code 4chan20 for 20% off your first order

>>42100356

And too much can be harmful

>>42100347

>there can't possibly be too much cholesterol in your blood, it's simply healthy in any amount

>>42100192

>continue to do this but replace those eggs with something that has little or no cholesterol or saturated fat
>cholesterol levels improve further

>>42100381
Show me an example of someone diagnosed with "too much choline", excluding for unnatural shit like someone taking a whole bottle of choline supplements.

The upper limit on choline is 3.5g/day. To reach that, you would have to eat 36 ounces of beef liver, or 24 eggs per day.

Most people are deficient in choline.

>>42100493

Refer back to >>42100211

It's not choline toxicity, it's the excess choline being made into an atherogenic compound

Cholesterol is largely regulated by your liver, so HDL and LDL ratios won't be effected too much by dietary cholesterol.
It can effect overall cholesterol levels, as the liver has to break down something to create your cholesterol from, but studies have shown than reducing overall blood cholesterol in the average UK person by 50% requires reducing dietary cholesterol by about 90%.
This also doesn't consider that it is not the amount of cholesterol you have, but your ratios. LDL clogs arteries, HDL helps "mop up" LDL cholesterol.
Cholesterol is important in the function of the body, as the precursor for your natural steroids, including testosterone and vitamin D.

Your important factor in cholesterol levels is liver health, not avoiding eggs.
The best way to achieve this is with a balanced diet full of vitamins, fibre and antioxidants.

>>42100389
Cholesterol's purpose is to improve and repair cell membranes. The connection to heart disease is misunderstood.

The root cause is stress on the arteries, which leads to inflammation. Stress on the arteries is caused by things like
>psychological/emotional stress
>smoking
>alcohol
>cardio
>trans fats
>large amounts of sugar
>obesity
>genetic predisposition

Cholesterol's role in blood is to fill in the "stress fractures" in the arteries, to basically patch it up. As a result, people who have heart attacks are found to have cholesterol "blockage", but it's not really the cholesterol, it's the continued inflammation causing the heart attacks.

>>42100511
Just show me a person who a physician says has too much choline as a result of a mainstream diet.

>>42100515
This
/thread

>>42100519

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUrP-g9TYdQ

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>>42100523

Here you go

Everyone in the west will die between the 70-90 zone what you eat doesn't matter as long as you stay active

>>42100515

Your liver is involved in the regulation, but the ability to regulate it can depend on what you eat.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3621516

>The physiologically important LDL receptors are located primarily in the liver, where their number is regulated by the cholesterol content of the hepatocyte. When the cholesterol content of hepatocytes is raised by ingestion of diets high in saturated fat and cholesterol, LDL receptors fall and plasma LDL levels rise.

>Cholesterol is important in the function of the body, as the precursor for your natural steroids, including testosterone and vitamin D.

Misleading to say. Cholesterol is a vital substance in many ways, but it's virtually impossible to have inadequate cholesterol levels. Even people with genetic abnormalities that give them an LDL as low as 1mg/dl have no observed issues. Every cell in your body can synthesize cholesterol, including the cells that produce steroid hormones.

>>42100587
Show me where the doctor said "you have too much choline, and it's going to cause disease, and you better stop eating choline".

>>42100583
I'm not going to watch this. If you can't summarize your point, then accept it, and go eat some liverwurst and beer cheese.

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>>42100036
dietary cholesterol kill the nigger. So its a good thing regardless.

>>42100610

>make assertion with no evidence that mainstream cardiology "doesn't understand cholesterol"
>won't watch a 5 minute video showing evidence that cholesterol itself is causal in heart disease regardless of other risk factors

>>42100616
>those guys who think the water that we don't use gets magically transported to africa

>>42100424
I just want it to be in the normie range (REEE etc)

>>42100638
>in the form of grains and cheap nigger feed

>>42100625
>refuse to answer question directly
>instead post video
>get mad when called out for your deceptive tactics

>>42100666

There was no question, unless you meant asking for a summary, which is what the video was

https://youtu.be/RtGf2FuzKo4

>>42100192
Normal? What is your LDL? No way its less then 58 which is the ideal level.

>>42100583
That video is misleading. He conflates "cholesterol levels" with the ratio of LDL (bad chol.) to HDL (good chol.) in the blood.

Yes, LDL causes clogged up arteries and thus heart diseases and other problems. But these risks are negated when there is a sufficient amount of HDL cholesterol in the blood stream to counter the effects of LDL.

>>42100741

> these risks are negated when there is a sufficient amount of HDL cholesterol in the blood stream to counter the effects of LDL.

Not how it works.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/rethinking-good-cholesterol
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/does-good-cholesterol-still-matter/2017/05/26/d6926a8a-0e69-11e7-9b0d-d27c98455440_story.html?utm_term=.2f848c8854b2

>>42100741
https://youtu.be/nVqiv_7qJaI

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>>42100638
here we go

>>42100519

Cholesterol also increases inflammation

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/111/23/3058.short

>>42100768
If those links are correct, then the measures that are supposed to improve the LDL/HDL ratio (fat loss and exercise) are effective anyway in preventing and removing clogging in arteries despite of a high cholesterol intake.

So the video is wrong anyway. We know that people with healthy weight and regular exercise don't get increased heart attack risks from consuming a lot of cholesterol, even if we don't understand why.

>>42100793
LDL size is irrelevant for this argument, why did you link this?

>>42100793
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Greger

>>42100826

If that was your argument, you're basically saying that because exercise and losing weight can reduce risk of developing heart disease, then anything that increases heart disease risk doesn't count anymore. That's ridiculous. Eating vegetables can help prevent cancer. Having a salad doesn't make you immune to cancer.

>>42100840
I am not saying exercise and low weight reduce risks, I am saying the effect that causes an increase of risk does not occur in the first place if you exercise and have a healthy weight.

The problems caused by LDL appear to be deeply linked to being overweight and having high blood pressure.

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>>42100840
One tends to forget the baseline in all of this "exercise" is not just a bonus or a thing that you can or cannot do. Its a way of life to which our bodies were attuned to.

and our bodies developed to be more in tune with meat eating/hunting.

https://www.nature.com/news/baseball-players-reveal-how-humans-evolved-to-throw-so-well-1.13281
https://phys.org/news/2013-06-chimps-humans-baseball-pitcher.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y__4xX8xp8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRELldIuZyM
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/04/did-europeans-get-fat-neandertals

>>42100867

> I am saying the effect that causes an increase of risk does not occur in the first place if you exercise and have a healthy weight.

Even more ridiculous. Post any evidence to back this up and explain how you intend to have 0 inflammation in your body throughout your life.

>>42100869

Post again but less crazy

>>42100826
You skipped the first part of the video where he represents the results of the meta analysis.

>>42100885
Read the link (provided by yourself?)

http://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/rethinking-good-cholesterol

>>42100907

The link says nothing of the sort. "Exercising and losing weight is healthy" does not mean any risk of disease is abolished

>>42100924
>we thought: good HDL to LDL ratio means the effects of LDL are negated
>turns out HDL is just a marker for some other process that causes this negating effect
>turns out that process is exercise and lowering bodyfat%

>>42100362
Kek

>>42100939

The word "negate" or any similar word is not used in that article. Again, the fact that exercise and being a healthy weight are good for you does not imply that it makes you immune to heart disease. Post whatever amazing evidence would be required to claim something that ridiculous.

>>42100939
the exercise lowers these things thing is a very good "missing link" in this whole picture of an evolutionary approach to diets and habits. Know of any bigger sources that go after this?

>>42100959
Exercise and losing weight will keep your LDL levels in the recommended range. What I said originally was that it negates the increase of risk. Not that it removes all risk. Of course you can't get a 0% heart attack risk.

>>42100985
It could probably even reduce the slightly higher rate of LDL in the whole picture

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/102/2/276

>>42100985

>Exercise and losing weight will keep your LDL levels in the recommended range.

They could, if your diet isn't working against it. Your original post was that LDL isn't even the issue, that it's inflammation specifically that causes the problem, like there's a way to rid yourself of all inflammation and not get heart disease. That was a response to a post making fun of the ideo that cholesterol is safe in any amount. At this point you're agreeing that lowering LDL (bad cholesterol) is important.

>>42101018

> Supported by USDA agreement 1950-51000-073 and the American Egg Board, Egg Nutrition Center.

>>42101040
maybe you guys shouldnt use nutritionfacts then as its clearly biased.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Greger

>>42101054

Here's the nutritionfacts guy reading egg industry funded research. Tell me which one comes off as biased.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuRnT_ojwQU

>>42101057
the nutrition facts guy, because I read the egg industry meta analysis, seems like there is something really wrong with that dude.

>>42101070

You mean you read the abstract and said "sounds good to me," not that you read and analyzed all the studies involved.

And of course you didn't even watch the video, because you're clearly very un-biased, and listening to a point of view different from yours would taint your perfect un-biased-ness.

>>42101090
yea because they are all egg industry

muh ebil egg industry

https://examine.com/nutrition/is-saturated-fat-bad-for-me/

Here are some other heralds who like to shit on you people.

>>42101034
>making fun of the ideo that cholesterol is safe in any amount.
The point is that consuming more cholesterol will not necessarily cause an increased risk of heart disease.

>They could, if your diet isn't working against it.
That is the conclusion of the link above. Though I would argue that the research about optimal LDL/HDL ratios being healthy still applies, even if HDL isn't the actual the cause behind it. Though that is hard to confirm without more research.
Regardless of that, exercising and losing weight will also keep LDL in check.

>>42101127

This article has some fucked up logic

>saturated fats are only bad relative to all the other macros
>but they aren't inherently bad

They say some observational studies don't show associations with heart disease, one of which was funded by the dairy industry, but then also link several response papers to it that explain why methodological flaws caused the lack of association

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/92/2/458.long

Reminder that the thinking that raw cholesterol from eggs going straight to bloodstream from eating is like thinking that raw test from sperm goes straight to bloodstream from eating.

This isn't what happens, sucking cock doesn't increase your test as the test from sperm is actually synthesized into estrogens after ingestion.

tldr dietary cholesterol doesnt become blood cholesterol, and swallowing cum makes you even more gay

>>42101179
>one of which was funded by the dairy industry

the jew shreeks "anti semite" as he lashes out at you. I wonder if what you have is something of a passive aggressive streak that is alike to the jews that the veggyfags have.

here are some nice facts

>the fat avoidance craze did not stop the obesity rates
>there is some suggestion that animal fats together with sugary treats act like death catalysts
>exersize seems to lower it
>most of the research seems to have a question mark around individuals who can tolerate it better than others (race?)
>there is also some talk about the LDL values simply braking later in life with reasons not understood because something bio chemical broke and we just dont know

Just the top of my head, from all of this. But its fairly pointless to go over this because you guys seem to be in amnesia mode where you just spam your crap over and over again.

>>42101192
But fat and cholesterol are transported by various lipoprotein ( hdl , ldl , vldl , chylomicron ) just after entering the intestine , they literally goes straight to your blood for transport .

>>42101216

>lose one point, go onto another

Anyway

>the fat avoidance craze did not stop the obesity rates

It also didn't exist, atleast not as a total population trend

http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/sites/default/files/nutrient_content_of_the_us_food_supply/KilocaloriesandMacronutrientsPerCapitaperDay1909-2010.xls

You could say "the sugar avoidance craze" didn't help either.

>>there is some suggestion that animal fats together with sugary treats act like death catalysts

Sure

>exersize seems to lower it

Sure

>most of the research seems to have a question mark around individuals who can tolerate it better than others (race?)

Not sure what you mean

>there is also some talk about the LDL values simply braking later in life

What?